"Born Fighting" - The story of the Ulster Scots (UTV programme)

[Evil Genius]

You know, people with surnames like Johnson, Armstrong, Elliott, Hume, Adams...

http://www.u.tv/utvplayer/video/134863

The Author/Presenter, Senator James Webb, is not your average "Irish-American" politician:
http://www.jameswebb.com/about/about.htm

[Denn Forever]

You know, people with surnames like Johnson, Armstrong, Elliott, Hume, Adams...

http://www.u.tv/utvplayer/video/134863

The Author/Presenter, Senator James Webb, is not your average "Irish-American" politician:
http://www.jameswebb.com/about/about.htm

Is it any good?

[Orior]

Wad abut der Scotch-Irish?

[Arthur_Friend]

and?

[spuds]

Worth watching, skims over how things affected the native Irish (having their lands take, penal laws) but I suppose the programme is really about the Scotties. Interesting his comments on how the Scotties that are still here are now blind loyalists to London whereas their ancestors were not due to being treated so harshly.

[mylestheslasher]

You know, people with surnames like Johnson, Armstrong, Elliott, Hume, Adams...

http://www.u.tv/utvplayer/video/134863

The Author/Presenter, Senator James Webb, is not your average "Irish-American" politician:
http://www.jameswebb.com/about/about.htm

Great, all you need is one of the above surnames to be Ulster Scot and then be able to speak English with a thick accent to be fluent in the Ulster Scot language. I will watch with great interest.

[balladmaker]

Great, all you need is one of the above surnames to be Ulster Scot and then be able to speak English with a thick accent to be fluent in the Ulster Scot language. I will watch with great interest.

Ulster Scots would be better described as a dialect rather than a language ... would it not?

[Denn Forever]

Is it not about people who came over from Northern Ireland and settled in the states?  Kinda like New Foundland?

From the UTV website
In the first of two documentaries, US Government Senator James Webb goes on a personal journey to trace the story of the Scots-Irish who helped build modern America.

[spuds]

Is it not about people who came over from Northern Ireland and settled in the states?  Kinda like New Foundland?

From the UTV website
In the first of two documentaries, US Government Senator James Webb goes on a personal journey to trace the story of the Scots-Irish who helped build modern America.

Basically they were fighting in Alba, in Ireland and are still fighting centuries later on behalf of the yanks.

[anglocelt39]

Is it not about people who came over from Northern Ireland and settled in the states?  Kinda like New Foundland?

From the UTV website
In the first of two documentaries, US Government Senator James Webb goes on a personal journey to trace the story of the Scots-Irish who helped build modern America.

Yeah I think the history books show that a fair few of them settled in the Appalachians and points further south explaining the cross Atlantic trend in bluegrass music among other things, as for the Southern States Calvinist strain of religious fundamentalism, well who are we to comment...........

[MW]

You know, people with surnames like Johnson, Armstrong, Elliott, Hume, Adams...

http://www.u.tv/utvplayer/video/134863

The Author/Presenter, Senator James Webb, is not your average "Irish-American" politician:
http://www.jameswebb.com/about/about.htm

Great, all you need is one of the above surnames to be Ulster Scot and then be able to speak English with a thick accent to be fluent in the Ulster Scot language. I will watch with great interest.

Interesting that you leap straight to thinking about the language/dialect...

[MW]

Anyway, I found Jim Webb's book very entertaining and interesting - bought it when studying over in the States about 4 years ago not long after he was elected to the Senate. One of my lecturers was a friend of his so I had a good chat with him about Webb's ideas on the centrality of Scots-Irish people in American life.

[saffron sam2]

You know, people with surnames like Johnson, Armstrong, Elliott, Hume, Adams...

http://www.u.tv/utvplayer/video/134863

The Author/Presenter, Senator James Webb, is not your average "Irish-American" politician:
http://www.jameswebb.com/about/about.htm

Should be interesting, will watch it when I get a chance. I remain disappointed that I missed "On Eagle's Wings" - the musical story of the Scots-Irish in America.

However I must pull you on the following:

You know, people with surnames like Johnson, Armstrong, Elliott, Hume, Adams...

Many Armstrongs claim to be descended from the Ó Labhradha Tréan clan, the strong arm of the Lavery clan. Indeed Mac Thréinfhir has also been anglicised as Armstrong. Most people will be aware that many Irish names were translated literally into an English equivalent and have no direct link to the planter name and people bearing those names may not have had their blood diluted by that of the planter. You appear not to be aware though.

Of course Ramsey and Buchanan for example have no defence.

[Banana Man]

also interesting that these ulster scots names don't have a 'Mc' or 'Mac' in them, probably because they were all lowland scots who destroyed the ancient clans during the highland clearances and deplored the 'wild irish' of the glens yet they love their music i.e. bagpipes, yet the irony is lost on them, it's akin to the US army naming their helicopter 'apache'

[Poc me]

Saffron Sam, while i completely agree with you on the point you made that many bastardised Irish names have been misconceived as 'planter' names (hawthorne, armstrong etc. among others) i take issue with the fact that you say that people who may have been mistaken as being of planter stock have had their blood 'diluted'. It is a such an extreme right wing statement to make.

I am presuming by that statement that you are a nationalist who is of the opinion that the greater Irish ancestry you are the better an Irish person you are which is complete balls. So waht if someone has a 'planter' name or an english name, it doesn't matter. Tone clearly stated that it didn't matter whether you were Gael, Scot, Anglo-Norman or Huguenot in terms of descent but it was your own personal outlook that mattered. People's Irish credentials should be based on their own personal outlook.