GPA proposals

Started by ck, April 23, 2015, 12:01:15 PM

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ck

The GPA have listened to college/county players and have realised the farce that is the GAA season with overlapping competitions and various teams demanding differing levels of commitment. I'm not a GPA fan however I feel they have contributed something significant to the player welfare debate here.

https://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2204151153-gpa-launch-report-on-welfare-of-student-players/

The proposals are interesting and have value but for me do not go far enough. (Moving U.21 to U.20 is simply re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic). What is needed is a reduction of grades for the 18-21 age group so the only runner for me is to scrap U.21 and minor and replace with U.19 - moving it away from the leaving cert and away from senior football.

ck

Proposals include:
•   Restructuring fixture programme between January and March to avoid overlapping competitions
•   Examine changing U21 grade to U20 in football and hurling
•   Removing colleges from pre-season inter-county competitions
•   The establishment of GPA representation on the GAA Higher Education group to facilitate engagement with key stakeholders such as managers and educators
•   Initiate education fundraising campaign to increase support for those who need it most
•   Support the GAA's development of player welfare mentor position at county level to help manage training and playing commitments of student county players representing multiple teams

Bingo

We'd have more lads doing the leaving cert in the year after minor than during it in recent years. Transition years in the local schools has seen them all taking on with the LC in their 19th year.

ck

Quote from: Bingo on April 23, 2015, 12:50:41 PM
We'd have more lads doing the leaving cert in the year after minor than during it in recent years. Transition years in the local schools has seen them all taking on with the LC in their 19th year.

Disagree. TY has been done away with in many schools due to cuts and partly to do with the fact that it's a pile of sh*te.
I was involved with Sligo minors a few years back and the Leaving cert was a serious issue. Most lads were doing it and under severe pressure yet we were asking them to travel to us 3 times a week. Just not right or fair.
U.19 grade would be 1st year college students in the main.

Bingo

Quote from: ck on April 23, 2015, 12:57:45 PM
Quote from: Bingo on April 23, 2015, 12:50:41 PM
We'd have more lads doing the leaving cert in the year after minor than during it in recent years. Transition years in the local schools has seen them all taking on with the LC in their 19th year.

Disagree. TY has been done away with in many schools due to cuts and partly to do with the fact that it's a pile of sh*te.
I was involved with Sligo minors a few years back and the Leaving cert was a serious issue. Most lads were doing it and under severe pressure yet we were asking them to travel to us 3 times a week. Just not right or fair.
U.19 grade would be 1st year college students in the main.

Sligo isn't Blayney and I'm only telling you the way it is with us. And our schools both still have Transition year and no plans to scrap.

Maybe the problem is the expectation of minor mgt asking young lads to travel 3 times a week, week in week out for months on end to prepapre for a knockout competition? Change of dates would help these lads no end rather than changing a whole age grading.

CSC

Quote from: ck on April 23, 2015, 12:50:17 PM
Proposals include:
•   Restructuring fixture programme between January and March to avoid overlapping competitions
•   Examine changing U21 grade to U20 in football and hurling
•   Removing colleges from pre-season inter-county competitions•   The establishment of GPA representation on the GAA Higher Education group to facilitate engagement with key stakeholders such as managers and educators•   Initiate education fundraising campaign to increase support for those who need it most
•   Support the GAA's development of player welfare mentor position at county level to help manage training and playing commitments of student county players representing multiple teams

If you consider these proposals a debate stater, then they're great. But I don't think any of these proposals will help players in any way.
For example;
1 - Restructuring fixture programme between January and March. - Any restructuring in these months will add pressure in later months. For e.g., move the McKenna cup to later in the year, causes more disruption and pressure to the county players in the form of club 'v' county to another part of the year

2- Removing colleges from pre-season inter-county competitions• - The whole reason for this was to prevent college lads being pulled in two directions during Jan - March, removing the demands of the county and college by focusing on the college but playing inter county standard teams. This should have been a  win win, but the county managers didn't like it

3- b]The establishment of GPA representation on the GAA Higher Education group to facilitate engagement with key stakeholders such as managers and educators[/b]• - Seriously, Seriously, F#$king jobs for the boys. In my time in college, books came first then the football, and managers managed around that fact. The big issue was county managers not caring about student demands. Why the need for GPA in Higher Education councils?

The real solution should focus on scheduling. We need one master schedule for the entire country that eliminates county 'v' club, and students 'v' county or club commitments.
Break the calender year out into seasons, and identify what sport / competition has priority during the season.
For example -
Adult
club adult football priority from Feb - May for league
Intercounty football June to August - League and championship to be run off simultaneously
Club Championship- Sept - November (through to All Ireland)

The same approach for youth, identify school / college period and club periods

But one group needs to align fixture making for the entire country, and aline all the club, county, college and school programs. If this means eliminating certain competitions at club, college, county, then so be it, but lets set out a framework that everybody has to ad-hear too.

sheamy

remove pre season intercounty competitions (mckenna, fbd etc.)
no senior county panelists to play sigerson
remove county u21 competition

no stress, no worry, no need for big old report.

AZOffaly

The Under 21 Championship is one of the best championships there is for quality of football and development of players. Why should we abandon it?


Denn Forever

Quote from: sheamy on April 23, 2015, 02:44:13 PM
remove pre season intercounty competitions (mckenna, fbd etc.)
no senior county panelists to play sigerson
remove county u21 competition

no stress, no worry, no need for big old report.

Plus One.
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

sheamy

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 23, 2015, 02:51:08 PM
The Under 21 Championship is one of the best championships there is for quality of football and development of players. Why should we abandon it?

lads train 3-4 months for maybe one game which is played midweek and they have to travel for 2-3 hours to get there which requires a half day from college or work. I don't see the development opportunities there. far better imo that the best 12-13 most promising lads are brought within an enlarged senior panel and the rest play with unis and/or pre season with clubs.

the sigerson is now a complete farce with incentives offered right, left and centre to players to move to an institution or stay in one. and the games are watched by about 350 people, most of whom are students. it could be a real development competition if senior county panelists weren't involved. asking players to peak for sigerson and then senior championship is total and utter lunacy. Niall Moyna has spoken on this previously (http://www1.skysports.com/gaelic-football/news/12040/9643902/gaa-dr-niall-moyna-backs-calls-for-county-players-to-be-barred-from-college-competitions).

AZOffaly

Quote from: sheamy on April 23, 2015, 03:03:36 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 23, 2015, 02:51:08 PM
The Under 21 Championship is one of the best championships there is for quality of football and development of players. Why should we abandon it?

lads train 3-4 months for maybe one game which is played midweek and they have to travel for 2-3 hours to get there which requires a half day from college or work. I don't see the development opportunities there. far better imo that the best 12-13 most promising lads are brought within an enlarged senior panel and the rest play with unis and/or pre season with clubs.

the sigerson is now a complete farce with incentives offered right, left and centre to players to move to an institution or stay in one. and the games are watched by about 350 people, most of whom are students. it could be a real development competition if senior county panelists weren't involved. asking players to peak for sigerson and then senior championship is total and utter lunacy. Niall Moyna has spoken on this previously (http://www1.skysports.com/gaelic-football/news/12040/9643902/gaa-dr-niall-moyna-backs-calls-for-county-players-to-be-barred-from-college-competitions).

Development opportunities in that they play several Hastings Cup or other games, and continue to develop as county players and be exposed to county level coaching and remain in the fold.

Adding them to a 40+ man senior panel without having any real chance for games wouldn't be any better for development.  Although I should say that several county set ups I know train the U21s and Seniors together.

I agree  about the senior county men on Sigerson teams.  Remove that and a lot of the problems are taken care of. Is Niall Moyna DCU? Would his college not be among the biggest proponents of recruiting well known senior players to play for the college?

oakleaflad

Quote from: Bingo on April 23, 2015, 01:04:47 PM
Quote from: ck on April 23, 2015, 12:57:45 PM
Quote from: Bingo on April 23, 2015, 12:50:41 PM
We'd have more lads doing the leaving cert in the year after minor than during it in recent years. Transition years in the local schools has seen them all taking on with the LC in their 19th year.

Disagree. TY has been done away with in many schools due to cuts and partly to do with the fact that it's a pile of sh*te.
I was involved with Sligo minors a few years back and the Leaving cert was a serious issue. Most lads were doing it and under severe pressure yet we were asking them to travel to us 3 times a week. Just not right or fair.
U.19 grade would be 1st year college students in the main.

Sligo isn't Blayney and I'm only telling you the way it is with us. And our schools both still have Transition year and no plans to scrap.

Maybe the problem is the expectation of minor mgt asking young lads to travel 3 times a week, week in week out for months on end to prepapre for a knockout competition? Change of dates would help these lads no end rather than changing a whole age grading.
Surely it should be roughly 50/50 as the cutoff point for Gaelic games is 31st Dec/1st Jan and schools is 30th June/1st July. Or am I missing something?

sheamy

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/why-its-high-time-to-ditch-u21-grade-once-and-for-all-31137250.html

the u21 grade at club level is nothing but an irritation in most counties. in ulster we compound it by playing a provincial club competition so lads can be asked to play or train for club u21, county u21, senior and sigerson all at the one time.

....and we'll not even go near the effects the grade has on the dual player!

at county the u21 grades prevents club leagues starting sooner

look what is happening on the tyrone thread at present for evidence.

johnneycool

Read in one of the papers the schedule for Jack Guiney at DIT and playing intercounty for Wexford, a serious bit of training and traveling by anyones standards.

It seems he's on a scholarship and tied to playing for the college as part of that, so if there's a ban on intercouty players taking part in Sigerson or Fitzgibbon then I'd presume they'd stop offering scholarships to intercounty players!


CSC

Quote from: johnneycool on April 23, 2015, 04:11:13 PM
Read in one of the papers the schedule for Jack Guiney at DIT and playing intercounty for Wexford, a serious bit of training and traveling by anyones standards.

It seems he's on a scholarship and tied to playing for the college as part of that, so if there's a ban on intercouty players taking part in Sigerson or Fitzgibbon then I'd presume they'd stop offering scholarships to intercounty players!
orrrr, that if an inter county player has a scholarship, then he fully commits to the college, and neither plays or trains for the county until the college season is over.

If an intercounty player doesn't have a scholarship, then he plays for the county only.

and, should we not limit the amount of scholarships that each college can award.... max of 8 / 9 per year