The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[muppet]

There is a case, is there not, that adoption agencies should discriminate in favour of children and avoid environments that are not conducive to their full development. In particular, they should not make children mere pawns in politically correct gaming by adults.

If you mean they should prioritise the wellbeing of the children instead of their own bigotry, I couldn't agree more.

[The Iceman]

There is a case, is there not, that adoption agencies should discriminate in favour of children and avoid environments that are not conducive to their full development. In particular, they should not make children mere pawns in politically correct gaming by adults.

If you mean they should prioritise the wellbeing of the children instead of their own bigotry, I couldn't agree more.

Your very stance on the matter holds just as much prejudice towards Christians and their beliefs. Homosexuals make up 2% of the population. Those who choose to be married make up less of that number. Countries like Canada and Sweden would point to that were a small % of a small % of homosexuals actually marry. Why should Christian institutions be forced to against their beliefs? They shouldn't! Unless you rationalize sodomy - make it standard, make it normal - then enforce it...... my point from the start.

[muppet]

There is a case, is there not, that adoption agencies should discriminate in favour of children and avoid environments that are not conducive to their full development. In particular, they should not make children mere pawns in politically correct gaming by adults.

If you mean they should prioritise the wellbeing of the children instead of their own bigotry, I couldn't agree more.

Your very stance on the matter holds just as much prejudice towards Christians and their beliefs. Homosexuals make up 2% of the population. Those who choose to be married make up less of that number. Countries like Canada and Sweden would point to that were a small % of a small % of homosexuals actually marry. Why should Christian institutions be forced to against their beliefs? They shouldn't! Unless you rationalize sodomy - make it standard, make it normal - then enforce it...... my point from the start.

Because it is the law.

Ignorance and intolerance should never be held up as 'values'. Your argument that because gays are a minority that makes it ok to discriminate adjacent them is extremely sad.

And your point isn't a point. I don't know what it is, but what you have written doesn't appear to have any meaning. You use words like 'normalise' and 'enforce', but you don't explain what it is you mean. Do you, for example, think people are trying to make you gay?

[The Iceman]

There is a case, is there not, that adoption agencies should discriminate in favour of children and avoid environments that are not conducive to their full development. In particular, they should not make children mere pawns in politically correct gaming by adults.

If you mean they should prioritise the wellbeing of the children instead of their own bigotry, I couldn't agree more.

Your very stance on the matter holds just as much prejudice towards Christians and their beliefs. Homosexuals make up 2% of the population. Those who choose to be married make up less of that number. Countries like Canada and Sweden would point to that were a small % of a small % of homosexuals actually marry. Why should Christian institutions be forced to against their beliefs? They shouldn't! Unless you rationalize sodomy - make it standard, make it normal - then enforce it...... my point from the start.

Because it is the law.

Ignorance and intolerance should never be held up as 'values'. Your argument that because gays are a minority that makes it ok to discriminate adjacent them is extremely sad.

And your point isn't a point. I don't know what it is, but what you have written doesn't appear to have any meaning. You use words like 'normalise' and 'enforce', but you don't explain what it is you mean. Do you, for example, think people are trying to make you gay?

I explained it quite clearly. Enforced as in I will be forced to recognize it as normal. Which I will not. Sodomy is not normal. Catholic adoption agencies were forced to close. Catholic Churches and believers will be forced to recognize that sodomy is normal. I don't think I was vague in my earlier explanations.

[muppet]

There is a case, is there not, that adoption agencies should discriminate in favour of children and avoid environments that are not conducive to their full development. In particular, they should not make children mere pawns in politically correct gaming by adults.

If you mean they should prioritise the wellbeing of the children instead of their own bigotry, I couldn't agree more.

Your very stance on the matter holds just as much prejudice towards Christians and their beliefs. Homosexuals make up 2% of the population. Those who choose to be married make up less of that number. Countries like Canada and Sweden would point to that were a small % of a small % of homosexuals actually marry. Why should Christian institutions be forced to against their beliefs? They shouldn't! Unless you rationalize sodomy - make it standard, make it normal - then enforce it...... my point from the start.

Because it is the law.

Ignorance and intolerance should never be held up as 'values'. Your argument that because gays are a minority that makes it ok to discriminate adjacent them is extremely sad.

And your point isn't a point. I don't know what it is, but what you have written doesn't appear to have any meaning. You use words like 'normalise' and 'enforce', but you don't explain what it is you mean. Do you, for example, think people are trying to make you gay?

I explained it quite clearly. Enforced as in I will be forced to recognize it as normal. Which I will not. Sodomy is not normal. Catholic adoption agencies were forced to close. Catholic Churches and believers will be forced to recognize that sodomy is normal. I don't think I was vague in my earlier explanations.

I see. So the problem is what goes on in your head, and you want other people to change their behaviour to suit you?

[The Iceman]

There is a case, is there not, that adoption agencies should discriminate in favour of children and avoid environments that are not conducive to their full development. In particular, they should not make children mere pawns in politically correct gaming by adults.

If you mean they should prioritise the wellbeing of the children instead of their own bigotry, I couldn't agree more.

Your very stance on the matter holds just as much prejudice towards Christians and their beliefs. Homosexuals make up 2% of the population. Those who choose to be married make up less of that number. Countries like Canada and Sweden would point to that were a small % of a small % of homosexuals actually marry. Why should Christian institutions be forced to against their beliefs? They shouldn't! Unless you rationalize sodomy - make it standard, make it normal - then enforce it...... my point from the start.

Because it is the law.

Ignorance and intolerance should never be held up as 'values'. Your argument that because gays are a minority that makes it ok to discriminate adjacent them is extremely sad.

And your point isn't a point. I don't know what it is, but what you have written doesn't appear to have any meaning. You use words like 'normalise' and 'enforce', but you don't explain what it is you mean. Do you, for example, think people are trying to make you gay?

I explained it quite clearly. Enforced as in I will be forced to recognize it as normal. Which I will not. Sodomy is not normal. Catholic adoption agencies were forced to close. Catholic Churches and believers will be forced to recognize that sodomy is normal. I don't think I was vague in my earlier explanations.

I see. So the problem is what goes on in your head, and you want other people to change their behaviour to suit you?

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

[J70]

Why if sodomy is completely normal do homosexuals "come out"? Why even do so? Why be identified as gay? Why be defined by gay? The gay footballer, the gay tv presenter...haven't we asked these questions before? By doing so homosexuals wish to not only be tolerated in terms of their private sexual behaviour, but to have that behaviour publicly vindicated and rationalized as normal.

Once it is standard and normalized, on equal footing with the marital act then yes it can be enforced. And i don't mean anyone will be forced to bend over. But we will be forced to recognize sodomy as normal.
Catholic adoption agencies have already been closed down or fined for not allowing gay couples to adopt. It's against their religious teaching - but if you don't agree that sodomy is normal then we're closing you down.
Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women? That it could somehow be enforced? What defense does a church have that the Catholic adoption agency didnt? So I don't think I'm being silly, not at all. I'm drawing logical conclusions based on the direction of the times and the stated and outward mission of the gay community.

What you describe as being normalised, they would describe as ending centuries of persecution. The various churches were central to much of that persecution.

You have been sucked into it muppet. It's sodomy. It was always wrong. It's still wrong. The churches did and will continue to say so. Society did so too, until they were played.

What's wrong with it?

Why can't anyone address my points or answer my questions? I'm held at gunpoint sometimes on here for not answering questions. I give my opinion, i back it up and pose questions as follow up.... and just get more questions......stinks of mob mentality...

Let me get this right.

YOU are claiming persecution!

I didn't know I had to address every poster by name. I thought this was a discussion. Surely if you are part of it you would attempt to answer questions, not just pose them J70??

No muppet I'm not, I'm asking you to address my points and questions instead of ducking and weaving and throwing your own....

I haven't been part of the discussion.

I saw a point you raised and questioned you (very simply) about it.

If you don't want to answer it, suit yourself.

[muppet]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

[The Iceman]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

[muppet]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

[omaghjoe]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

[muppet]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

We believe that Leviticus was written around 2,700 years ago. It mentions homosexual acts. Thus homosexuals have been around for a very long time. We don't know who wrote Leviticus, but for some strange reason a portion of modern society insist on using it as a sex guide.

[The Iceman]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

I was staying away from it. Muppet called it God given. Do you agree that muppet cannot correctly make that statement? That Gay people are not definitively born or conceived gay? whether they are or not is moot anyway in my overall point - I'm not victimizing homosexuals - I'm disagreeing with the rationalization and normalization of sodomy.

[muppet]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

I was staying away from it. Muppet called it God given. Do you agree that muppet cannot correctly make that statement? That Gay people are not definitively born or conceived gay? whether they are or not is moot anyway in my overall point - I'm not victimizing homosexuals - I'm disagreeing with the rationalization and normalization of sodomy.

This is a euphemism for being against gays, isn't that it in a nutshell?

[The Iceman]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

We believe that Leviticus was written around 2,700 years ago. It mentions homosexual acts. Thus homosexuals have been around for a very long time. We don't know who wrote Leviticus, but for some strange reason a portion of modern society insist on using it as a sex guide.

You are completely and utterly wrong -typical antichurch argument, We use the new testament, and Jesus the new covenant as a guide. But I have chosen to remove any biblical arguments against sodomy from my arguments. Point to where I have used them please - you continue to pull the church in while I have mentioned them as being forced in to agreement that sodomy is as normative as the marital act.

So far my only argument against sodomy has been scientific.