The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[AZOffaly]

Reminds me of the 'Jaysus I must be a lesbian too' joke.

[Tubberman]

AZoffaly only a member of the Gay Community could answer your questions.I can't even explain why a man fancies another man,full stop.

Someone mentioned Knock.Knock is a sacred site of pilgrimage,that not even the mercenary Bord Failte would dare use as a marketing tool.

Arah will you stop, sure didn't Monsignor Horan use it as a marketing tool to build the airport back in the early 80s!!

[muppet]

AZoffaly only a member of the Gay Community could answer your questions.I can't even explain why a man fancies another man,full stop.

Someone mentioned Knock.Knock is a sacred site of pilgrimage,that not even the mercenary Bord Failte would dare use as a marketing tool.

Arah will you stop, sure didn't Monsignor Horan use it as a marketing tool to build the airport back in the early 80s!!

Tony is the colossus behind the board's version of McCarthyism. He can spot evil everywhere and in everyone, even in Bord Fáilte.

[T Fearon]

Monsignor Horan principally wanted to make it easier for pilgrims to access the Shrine of Knock.Of course he saw the wider economic benefits for the West as well,mainly job creation and stemming the flow of emigration.This was all about community sustainment and development,not greed or profit.

[Maguire01]

Monsignor Horan principally wanted to make it easier for pilgrims to access the Shrine of Knock.Of course he saw the wider economic benefits for the West as well,mainly job creation and stemming the flow of emigration.This was all about community sustainment and development,not greed or profit.

Of course it was. Totally selfless.

[LCohen]

Muppet doesn't believe everyone who votes no is homophobic, whereas you do

That is not what I said (or repeated)

If there are other arguments from the No camapign then they need to set them out. Otherwise it is difficult not to conclude that the only reason to vote no is that the voter doesn't like gays i.e. they suffer from homophobia. Sorry to have to point that out but as I say feel free to point out those other reasons for voting no.

So you think now you could have voted no and not be homophobic?

Always been open to that idea but the fact remains that not one single non-homophobic argument for voting No has been advanced on this forum. As I said the quote you used "set them out"

[LCohen]

OK, serious question for one moment, not related to the referendum as such. Apologies if it betrays a deep ignorance, and I am not trying to be insulting to anyone, but it is a question I have thought before, and never really heard an answer for, and it came to mind again watching the celebrations. Maybe someone here has some insights, or has heard this before.

If a gay man is attracted to other men, and a lesbian is attracted to other women, why do some gay men dress up as women, and some lesbians try their best to look like men? Now, I'm not talking about transgender people here, as I understand that motivation, I'm talking about people who identify as gay, and in gay relationships.

In those cases, why would a gay man be attracted to a man looking like a woman? Or why would a lesbian be attracted to a girl who looks like a man?

I am a straight man, and I can't imagine being attracted to a woman who has tried her best to look masculine?

Again, apologies if this is ignorant or stupid, but I genuinely don't understand it.

Maybe the answer lies in the fact that not all hetrosexual men think exactly the same and that remains true for homosexual men, hetrosexual females and lesbians

[LCohen]

Muppet doesn't believe everyone who votes no is homophobic, whereas you do - he mentions scenarios where he believes this is the case.

There are those who are quite uncomfortable with homosexuality, but might prefer not to show it.
There are those that are comfortable with homosexuality as long as it isn't in your face.

Would you concur?

Whereas you voted yes yet display homophobia

What about homosexuals that voted No? You'd expect that they're not homophobes.

The existence of homophobic homosexuals is not unknown. My first, last and only confession was to one such man

[armaghniac]

The existence of homophobic homosexuals is not unknown. My first, last and only confession was to one such man

I'd say there was two fakes in that conversation.

[AZOffaly]

OK, serious question for one moment, not related to the referendum as such. Apologies if it betrays a deep ignorance, and I am not trying to be insulting to anyone, but it is a question I have thought before, and never really heard an answer for, and it came to mind again watching the celebrations. Maybe someone here has some insights, or has heard this before.

If a gay man is attracted to other men, and a lesbian is attracted to other women, why do some gay men dress up as women, and some lesbians try their best to look like men? Now, I'm not talking about transgender people here, as I understand that motivation, I'm talking about people who identify as gay, and in gay relationships.

In those cases, why would a gay man be attracted to a man looking like a woman? Or why would a lesbian be attracted to a girl who looks like a man?

I am a straight man, and I can't imagine being attracted to a woman who has tried her best to look masculine?

Again, apologies if this is ignorant or stupid, but I genuinely don't understand it.

Maybe the answer lies in the fact that not all hetrosexual men think exactly the same and that remains true for homosexual men, hetrosexual females and lesbians

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. I know not everyone is the same. That's not what I'm asking. I don't know any straight men that find masculine looking women attractive, so I'm wondering how a lesbian that is attracted to women can find that look attractive. I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative. I suppose I'm asking a very tough question but it seems a little incongruous.

The human condition maybe.

[Eamonnca1]

Have you seen Ex Machina? There's a great conversation in there that goes along the lines of:

"What's your type? Like, say you like black chicks. How do you break that down? How do you rationalize it or explain it? You can't. You just have a thing for black chicks."

[foxcommander]

http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/follow-the-money-american-entity-funded-irish-same-sex-marriage-campaign#.VWL5MXCkqK2

Hope all you Yes voters don't feel too bad about being duped.

Let's be honest here, Free State decision makers can be bought fairly easily and the country has a history of treachery.
Who knows what Feeney's play was here - power play vs the church perhaps? Looks like it succeeded. Now on to the TTIP and GMOs.

As Ex-Minister Phil Hogan and now EU commissioner on Agriculture gleefully announced "Spain is a country that is guaranteeing food" through it's use of GMO's and the fat focker is proud of it. Soylent Green awaits.

[Eamonnca1]

I see your Americans funding the Yes campaign and I raise you:

US Christians 'bankrolling' No campaign in Ireland's gay marriage referendum

Row over funding of both campaigns in vote for legalisation of same-sex nuptials, yet despite accusations over foreign money, poll finds 58% will vote yes

With just five days to go before Ireland's historic referendum on the legalisation of gay marriage, a bitter row has broken out between supporters and opponents over the funding of their respective campaigns. Supporters of a yes vote have accused opponents of a lack of transparency over finances and of accepting funding from rightwing Christian groups in the US.

Ireland's referendum is the only one in the world where a national electorate is being asked to legalise gay marriage. If it is passed on Friday, gay couples will have the right under the state's constitution to marry – at present only civil partnerships are recognised in law. Marriage equality would provide full rights of inheritance but, despite it being a contentious issue in the campaign, would not alter the law on adoption, which was recently changed to allow gay couples to adopt.

A yes vote would also mark yet another defeat for the Catholic church and the political power it used to wield in Ireland.

The yes campaign says its opponents have a huge advantage in terms of resources for buying billboard and poster space and have spent tens of thousands of euros in the last few weeks alone. Now no campaigners have booked full-page advertisements to appear later this week in dozens of regional Irish papers, calling on voters to reject incorporating the right for gay couples to marry into the republic's constitution.

One of the no side's strongest supporters in the US is the lavishly funded National Organisation for Marriage (NOM). In a letter to supporters around the world, it has urged evangelical Christians to visit keepmarriage.org, which is campaigning for a no vote.


Ireland days away from gay marriage equality according to latest polls
Read more
"Just like in campaigns for marriage here in America," the letter says, "slanted public opinion polls become fodder to influence and depress supporters of marriage. This is happening in Ireland. If [the no campaign] can manage to pull off a victory, it will be a tremendous boost to the cause of marriage worldwide. Please do what you can to bring awareness to their efforts."

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However, a spokesperson for NOM in the US denied this weekend that it had channelled funds to any of the three main opposition groups to gay marriage during the campaign. NOM is aware that foreign donations to lobby groups during referendums in Ireland are banned, the spokesperson said.

Some in the no campaign have countered with claims that the yes side has benefited from millions of dollars donated by the Irish-American multimillionaire Chuck Feeney and his Atlantic Philanthropies agency.

John Waters, the award-winning Irish columnist and writer, heads the First Families First group, which opposes gay marriage. Waters said it was outrageous that Feeney's agency had been "allowed to swamp the Irish democratic process". He and independent Irish senator Rónán Mullen allege that Atlantic Philanthropies is financially backing the yes campaign because it funds a series of pro-gay marriage organisations ranging from the Gay and Lesbian Network to Amnesty International in Ireland.

Asked who funds his own group, Waters said: "We have no funding whatsoever and are not seeking any, being simply three private citizens seeking to defend certain constitutional rights and protections."

Atlantic Philanthropies declined to answer questions about the claims, but backers of the yes campaign firmly rejected them. They said their group adhered to the strict rules on campaign funding set up by Ireland's Standards in Public Office (Sipo) commission. The Sipo register of lobby groups shows that at least 10 of the pro-gay marriage organisations have fully complied with its rules, including a ban on foreign donations.

Brian Sheehan, the co-director of pro-gay marriage group Yes Equality, said: "Atlantic Philanthropies are not funding the Yes Equality referendum campaign. Yes Equality is fully funded through its supporters organising fundraising initiatives throughout Ireland.

"In addition we ran a crowdfunding campaign to raise monies for our poster, bus tour and booklet campaigns. All elements of the Yes Equality campaign are appropriately registered with the Standards in Public Office commission. Yes Equality is entirely dependent on generous small donations from around the country. The average donation made to Yes Equality has been €70."

Despite the accusations and counter-accusations over foreign money, the no camp appears to be facing an uphill struggle in its battle to defeat proposals to legalise gay marriage. A poll by Ipsos MRBI for the Irish Times this weekend found that 58% will vote yes while 25% will say no, with 17% of the 1,200 surveyed undecided.

And in a late bid to stop gay marriage become legal in a state where homosexuality was a crime until 1993, four Irish Catholic bishops released pastoral letters late on Saturday night urging their parishioners to vote no on 22 May. The statements, from Bishops Kieran O'Reilly, Kevin Doran, Martin Drennan and John Fleming will be read out in churches on Sunday. The pro-gay marriage cause also received a significant boost in this last weekend of campaigning when the Republic's most famous country music star, Daniel O'Donnell, who has an enormous fanbase in rural, conservative Ireland, came out in favour of a yes vote.

Source

[foxcommander]

I see your Americans funding the Yes campaign and I raise you:

Not beyond a bit of whataboutery I see 
While the funding of the No campaign is pretty straightforward to understand you got to admit there is something not quite right about pumping that amount of money into the yes campaign without expecting something in return.

[ludermor]

OK, serious question for one moment, not related to the referendum as such. Apologies if it betrays a deep ignorance, and I am not trying to be insulting to anyone, but it is a question I have thought before, and never really heard an answer for, and it came to mind again watching the celebrations. Maybe someone here has some insights, or has heard this before.

If a gay man is attracted to other men, and a lesbian is attracted to other women, why do some gay men dress up as women, and some lesbians try their best to look like men? Now, I'm not talking about transgender people here, as I understand that motivation, I'm talking about people who identify as gay, and in gay relationships.

In those cases, why would a gay man be attracted to a man looking like a woman? Or why would a lesbian be attracted to a girl who looks like a man?

I am a straight man, and I can't imagine being attracted to a woman who has tried her best to look masculine?

Again, apologies if this is ignorant or stupid, but I genuinely don't understand it.

Maybe the answer lies in the fact that not all hetrosexual men think exactly the same and that remains true for homosexual men, hetrosexual females and lesbians

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. I know not everyone is the same. That's not what I'm asking. I don't know any straight men that find masculine looking women attractive, so I'm wondering how a lesbian that is attracted to women can find that look attractive. I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative. I suppose I'm asking a very tough question but it seems a little incongruous.

The human condition maybe.

My mates sister in law is a lesbian but is going out with a pre op transsexual. So you have a girl who likes girls going out with a boy who wants to be a girl (Im pretty sure there is a song there somewhere) , It is mind f**k and i cant get my head around it.