The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[Sidney]

A brother and sister can also procreate. If, as armaghniac believes, procreation is the basis for marriage, logic and consistency demands their inclusion.

That's a mature contribution, a concise statement of the yes argument, let everyone do everything.

I'm not calling for that. Your logic is.

[LCohen]

Who in the yes campaign is trying to restrict debate?

There are lots of examples.

But just taking you, on this forum, you have called several people homophobes, called one person a moron and a horror of human being and described another as unhinged. Not the conduct of a person engaging in respectful debate with others he feels entitled to hold their opinion. Remembering that this is not about some sort of genocide or violence of any sort, but about the legal point of whether same sex relationships should be called civil partnerships or marriage.

So your best example of the Yes campaign trying to restrict debate is someone (i.e. me) who repeatedly asks advocates of the No campaign to explain their position and provide evidence. Forgive me for pointing out that it is a laughably bad example.

Who have I called homophobic who has not made homophobic comments? Surely you don't have a problem with homophobes being correctly labelled? Same applies to the other comments you refer to.

[LCohen]

Er could someone point out where I even tenuously equated gay sex with sex with animals? I used the comparison to show that in future,the way this world is going,it is not entirely inconceivable that bestiality will be defined as a human right and such relationships granted the same status as that of human relationships,on the basis that homosexuality, in the space of my short lifetime has travelled from a status of criminality to marriage endorsement in law.

On a lighter note I struggled to control my urine flow when I saw the Paddy Power billboard ad (featuring two hooded blokes kissing) and the Tiocfaidh Ar La caption,offering odds on the referendum outcome . Not often anyone successfully takes the piss out of Sinn Fein!

What is the direction of travel that points to legalisation of bestiality?

Have you used this bestiality argument in any other debates or have you restricted it to debates on issues relating to homosexuality?

[armaghniac]

I'm not calling for that. Your logic is.

My logic certainly is not, I am not calling for marriage to be changed.
You are the people advocating change.

Who have I called homophobic who has not made homophobic comments? Surely you don't have a problem with homophobes being correctly labelled?

Who have I said was trying to restrict debate who is not trying to restrict debate?

Same applies to the other comments you refer to.

Would that be where you implied that anyone who supported marriage was unhinged?

[LCohen]

No I wouldn't be in favour of recriminalising homosexuality,but I am vehemently opposed to the normalisation of homosexuality and the debasement of the holy sacrament of marriage.

In what way is homosexuality not normal?

Please confirm that you do at least accept that homosexuality is at least natural?

[LCohen]

Well we've lived for aeons without it.So why is it necessary now?

Do you believe in universal adult suffrage? Do you believe in statutory employment rights? Do you believe in free at the point of delivery healthcare? Ditto education? We had aeons without them and so you presumably consider them unnecessary?

Also is your reference to aeons not anti-biblical?

[LCohen]

Aside from the religious perspective I believe gay marriage and the normalisation of unnatural relationships to full equal status with those that are natural, is bad for society.

Tony, if you continue to refer to homosexual relationships as unnatural but refuse to provide any rationale for this determination it is going to be very difficult to avoid these accusations of homophobia. Just spell it out. What is the big secret?

[Sidney]

Aside from the religious perspective I believe gay marriage and the normalisation of unnatural relationships to full equal status with those that are natural, is bad for society.

Tony, if you continue to refer to homosexual relationships as unnatural but refuse to provide any rationale for this determination it is going to be very difficult to avoid these accusations of homophobia. Just spell it out. What is the big secret?

Can't spell Fearon without Fear.

[LCohen]

Scripture makes it very clear that homosexuality is wrong.A lot of Christian groups feel it is their God given duty to make people aware of their sin,hence the protests at gay pride parades etc.Although I would never participate in such protests,I do believe the people who do are motivated by the desire to save souls,not deliberately rile marchers etc.

But you can't call churches backward and discriminatory for simply adhering to non negotiable beliefs derived straight from the bible.

There is an american university that teaches geology based upon the story of Noah, the ark and the flood. Do you think I would be justified in labelling that seat of learning as "backward"? Honest question

[LCohen]

Annapr ,sad to say but I couldn't tolerate any gay family members.I would have to say I would be forced to disown them.Harsh I know but this is my honest view

Presumably you are "without sin"?

[Oraisteach]

Similarly, if the church called for a return to stoning adulterers, as advocated in the Bible, I'd certainly consider it backward.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Are you going to do that for all his posts over the last 7 days?

[LCohen]

But you can't call churches backward and discriminatory for simply adhering to non negotiable beliefs derived straight from the bible.

Yes you can.

Non-negitiable beliefs straight from The Bible such as this:

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Or is it an a la carte arrangement?

Never met a christian who has not had an a la carte view on the bible. Lets be clear Tony does not hold to the view that he is compelled to hold to the bible. He selects the areas of the bible he likes. Tony does not have views on homosexuality based upon the bible. He has a view on homosexuality and separately a selective awareness of an ancient text

[Sidney]

Are you going to do that for all his posts over the last 7 days?

The forum wouldn't have enough bandwidth to do that.

[Sidney]

I'm not calling for that. Your logic is.

My logic certainly is not, I am not calling for marriage to be changed.
You are the people advocating change.

Your logic clearly calls for it as procreation is possible between brother and sister.

If you aren't calling for brother-sister marriages, which I don't believe you are, don't use the logic of procreation to define the basis of marriage.