The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[J70]

To change your views on behalf of your own family is simple nepotism and illustrates the venality of politicians.

Unconditional love for your children is "nepotism?" I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Of course you have to love your children and support them. Nepotism is when you direct public policy to the advantage of our own family, when you wouldn't do it for other people. When you change the tax code because your family have made bad investments, when you change the divorce law because your family have relationship problems and when you undermine marriage because it doesn't suit your family and mates. This is corruption.

Or maybe convictions are easy to hold when it's only someone else's family member that is affected.

Prejudice hurts actual real live human beings, not abstract minorities.

Oh right, so if some of your children turn out to be supporters of families then you'll not be calling them homophobes, that is  only for anonymous people on the Internet?

"Supporters of families"??

Spare us the American right wing Frank Lutz - type  euphemisms!

If my kids espouse bigoted views of anything,  they will hear about it from me.

Anyway, being challenged about one's prejudiced views is hardly equivalent to being the victim of policies and laws based on prejudice.

[rosnarun]

"Unnatural?" Are you saying that homosexuality does not exist in nature?

Its Extremely rare in Nature almost unknown . Seem much more often  when animals are in captivity
same as with people Sailors prisoners ETC

[dferg]

Why do so many people always quote some mad things from the Old Testament?
The New Testament is the real basis for Christianity.
Anyway I'm probably changing to a Yes on this proposal on the basis that it's no skin off my nose.

Because it is mad things from the old testament that people are basing there prejudice on.  Mostly Leviticus.  Either people believe everything Leviticus says or they believe none of it e.g. he was being pretty firm on what type of slave people could own.

I am not aware of any quotes from Jesus at all in regards to homosexuality, and very few in regards to sex in general.

[T Fearon]

Oh dear, people seem to be misinterpreting the undeniable Christian ideal of love for one's fellow man, as condoning all human actions, sinful or otherwise. This is plainly silly when the Bible and Jesus made it clear that there will be a fatal price to pay for those who transgress and don't repent.

At the end of the day, there will be Gay Marriage (certainly if I had a vote I would be registering a NO as I will if a referendum is ever held in the North), but I find this more sad than anything else. The world is clearly becoming increasingly confused, as are morals, soon it will be impossible to distinguish between what's right from wrong etc, and the LGBT Community are becoming increasingly intolerant and extremist in their views.

Still , as the good book says, a few (and it emphasises there won't be many of us) will adhere consistently to truths and reap our eternal rewards for so doing.

[dferg]

Oh dear, people seem to be misinterpreting the undeniable Christian ideal of love for one's fellow man, as condoning all human actions, sinful or otherwise. This is plainly silly when the Bible and Jesus made it clear that there will be a fatal price to pay for those who transgress and don't repent.

So you can't find any quotes from Jesus in relation to the issue of homosexuality? just general reference to transgressing, where transgressing could mean picking your nose.

Still , as the good book says, a few (and it emphasises there won't be many of us) will adhere consistently to truths and reap our eternal rewards for so doing.

Hopefully there is a God and you get your eternal rewards for your arrogant belief that you are guaranteed to get into heaven and are more worthy than anyone else.

[J70]

"Unnatural?" Are you saying that homosexuality does not exist in nature?

Its Extremely rare in Nature almost unknown . Seem much more often  when animals are in captivity
same as with people Sailors prisoners ETC

It is not almost unknown in nature.  For starters,  check out our closest cousins, bonobos.

Regardless,  rare does not equal unnatural. 90% of people are right handed. That does not make left handedness unnatural.

[Hardy]

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable:

10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

[rosnarun]

Why do so many people always quote some mad things from the Old Testament?
The New Testament is the real basis for Christianity.
Anyway I'm probably changing to a Yes on this proposal on the basis that it's no skin off my nose.

Because it is mad things from the old testament that people are basing there prejudice on.  Mostly Leviticus.  Either people believe everything Leviticus says or they believe none of it e.g. he was being pretty firm on what type of slave people could own.

I am not aware of any quotes from Jesus at all in regards to homosexuality, and very few in regards to sex in general.

its funny the way Myths perpetuate
i don't think it could be much clearer `when Jesus said in Matthew 19:3

He answered, 'Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning "made them male and female" , and said, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh" 

We live in a republic and are free to vote whatever way we want  but Dont try and Use the Bible against its clear meaning

[rosnarun]

"Unnatural?" Are you saying that homosexuality does not exist in nature?

Its Extremely rare in Nature almost unknown . Seem much more often  when animals are in captivity
same as with people Sailors prisoners ETC

It is not almost unknown in nature.  For starters,  check out our closest cousins, bonobos.

Regardless,  rare does not equal unnatural. 90% of people are right handed. That does not make left handedness unnatural.

right/ left handedness is a conpleate non sequiter any more that hair colour , the one thing that is self evident is homsexuality is not hereditry where as the others are.
Bonobos are jsut randy feckers who use sex like activty for almost every purposebut  are nearly never exclusively homosexual and im sure they are not the image  human homosexuals would like to be their calling card

[easytiger95]

Fair dues Ros, the first time I've seen someone come up with a biblical interpretation from outside Leviticus.

It is of course, a Republic and as someone who believes and holds to their Faith, you are entitled to use your vote whichever way you feel.

Given that this relates to a civil issue, ie the extension of civil marriage rights to all couples, and given that your right to practice your Faith is protected under the constitution, I feel that the civil rights argument should be prioritised over your religious misgivings. That, to me, is the definition of republicanism - the freedom to practice all religions/ lifestyles/ political beliefs or none, as long as that practice does not impinge on the freedoms of others.

Which is really as far as an argument can go between people of Faith and those of a more secular persuasion, at least politely.   

[T Fearon]

It is not exalting oneself, or lacking in humility, by simply trying to live a good life and doing one's best, in the hope that this will lead to redemption, as promised in Scripture.

Maybe Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuality because he felt this topic was well enough covered already. Of course he may have spoken on the subject but his views weren't recorded in the Gospels, it wouldn't have been possible to record his every single utterance in his 33 years on earth.

[easytiger95]

Though i do disagree with your statement about homosexuality not occurring in nature - there are numerous studies disproving this - do a quick google search - also, we are, despite our sophistication and our dedication to ruining it (despite the obvious moral implications) part of nature.

[easytiger95]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

And that just took 10 secs on Wiki...

[Mayo4Sam]

"Unnatural?" Are you saying that homosexuality does not exist in nature?

Its Extremely rare in Nature almost unknown . Seem much more often  when animals are in captivity
same as with people Sailors prisoners ETC

It is not almost unknown in nature.  For starters,  check out our closest cousins, bonobos.

Regardless,  rare does not equal unnatural. 90% of people are right handed. That does not make left handedness unnatural.

Sure anyone who has ever set foot on a farm will know all cattle show gay tendencies. When a cow is in heat the other cows will jump up on her back, mimicking the actions of the bull.
On Tuesday I saw a young bullock mounting a fully grown bull

Such nonsense some people come out with

[armaghniac]

"Supporters of families"??

Spare us the American right wing Frank Lutz - type  euphemisms!

Never heard of him, I'm not the one bringing American values into the debate.

If my kids espouse bigoted views of anything,  they will hear about it from me.

So if you were the parent of one of the homosexual people in the No campaign, would they "hear about it from you"? What would you say?