The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[muppet]

http://daneohiggins.com/2015/04/24/5-reasons-to-vote-no/

5 REASONS TO VOTE NO

APRIL 24, 2015 DAN HIGGINS   

There's a referendum coming up, just in case you didn't know. The referendum concerns two issues:

Should the age of a Presidential Candidate be lowered from 35 to 21 years of age and;
Should marriage be extended equally to all persons regardless of sex.
The second one, as you would imagine, is gathering more interest. What with it concerning all people having equal rights and all. Here are 5 reasons you should vote No on number 2, maybe even number 1.

1. You like things just the way they are: Change, why would you change anything at all? You like things the way they are. Everything in its place. Change is scary after all. The fact is that if this passes and we as a country vote Yes then Ireland will slip off the shelf and plunge into the Atlantic...FACT!

2. Standards of Weddings: If we allow everyone to have equal rights and marry who they love then the fact is that the LGBT community will probably set the standard for Weddings impossibly high. There will be colours and themes that the average Irish man could never dream of or indeed live up to. Look at Panti Bliss for example. That chick knows how to throw a party. Imagine that. Shindigs like the country has never seen before.

3. Increase in Tourism: Ireland voting No in this referendum will send a clear signal to the world that we are still that country which likes to segregate people, push people to the fringes of society and deny equality to all. We could see an increase in visitors from groups such as the Neo-Nazis, the KKK and perhaps even The Westboro Baptist Church.

4. Parenting: Voting yes in this referendum might give LGBT people more power to have, raise, adopt and love children of their very own. Two people of the same sex raising a child couldn't possibly do a good job of that. Never before in human history have we seen two people of the same sex raising a child. Nope, never. It would be a disaster. Like a Mother helping her Daughter raise her child or a Father giving advice to his Son. Imagine a child having two loving Mothers or two adoring Fathers? Awful stuff altogether.

5. You're a moron: That's right. You should definitely vote No if you are a moron. If you believe it is absolutely paramount to deny equality to all people then you should vote no. If you believe that not all people deserve happiness then vote no. If you believe you have the right to interfere in other peoples decisions and who they can marry then vote no.

Ireland is on the verge of change right now. We have some very draconian traditions and laws which quite simply have no place in the modern world. Love is one of those things you don't choose, it just happens. To live in a country where you are made to feel like a second class citizen because you are denied a basic right afforded to others must be heart breaking and utterly demoralising.

I became a father recently. My little girl is on the verge of turning 6 months old. I want nothing but happiness for her in her future. If she grows up and decides that she would like to marry the love of her life then I hope she can do so without impediment. It shouldn't matter if that person is a male or a female, it should only matter that she loves them and that they love her.

I'll be voting Yes in this election. My generation and the generations before me still refer to people as straight people, gay people, lesbian people, transgender people and bisexual people. Maybe a yes vote will take us one step closer to my Daughters generation just having people. One big group of happy people.

Ah, the moron card has been played. That's right, if you don't vote Yes, you're a moron. Regardless of your opinion, religion, beliefs, morals, you're a moron.

This is what I was referring to.

I posted this not because I agree with it, but because it reminded me of the style used by much of the religious right in the US, albeit the other way round.

[nrico2006]

I couldn't give a shite what gays get up to in their own time. I just don't agree with same sex "marriage". It doesn't mean I'm anti-gay, nor anyone else who thinks likewise, but that's how it's portrayed.

If you don't care what they get up to on their own time why do you care if they do things as a married couple rather than a civil partnership?  Genuine question as I can't see why anybody who has no issue with gay people living their lives would have an issue with them being married.

Like nrico said, it's not marriage. If gays want to sign a form stating their pension goes to the other, that's fair enough. It's their pension to do as they please. But there should be no "marriage" ceremony. No adoption or ivf either.

The next thing they'll want is gay "marriages" in churches. I'm not religious but that is a massive no no. But of course they'll get this vote and the church will be under pressure to give in to it. And if they decline, it'll be the old draconian church response again.

I also don't see the big push from homosexual couples to be allowed to marry.  Was the civic partnership not created to allow them to legally unite?  Why the push for a church 'wedding'?  Surely they can't be that religious considering the church stance on homosexual marriage etc. 

[muppet]

I couldn't give a shite what gays get up to in their own time. I just don't agree with same sex "marriage". It doesn't mean I'm anti-gay, nor anyone else who thinks likewise, but that's how it's portrayed.

If you don't care what they get up to on their own time why do you care if they do things as a married couple rather than a civil partnership?  Genuine question as I can't see why anybody who has no issue with gay people living their lives would have an issue with them being married.

Like nrico said, it's not marriage. If gays want to sign a form stating their pension goes to the other, that's fair enough. It's their pension to do as they please. But there should be no "marriage" ceremony. No adoption or ivf either.

The next thing they'll want is gay "marriages" in churches. I'm not religious but that is a massive no no. But of course they'll get this vote and the church will be under pressure to give in to it. And if they decline, it'll be the old draconian church response again.

I also don't see the big push from homosexual couples to be allowed to marry.  Was the civic partnership not created to allow them to legally unite?  Why the push for a church 'wedding'? Surely they can't be that religious considering the church stance on homosexual marriage etc.

There aren't seeking that. The Church can opt to refuse anyone a church marriage. In fact the Catholic Church is threatening to refuse to carry out the civil registration of marriages if this vote is carried.

This vote is about equality.

[muppet]

Sorry, should have provided a link: http://www.catholicregister.org/home/international/item/20095-irish-bishops-consider-options-if-same-sex-referendum-passes

April 21, 2015
DUBLIN - Catholic bishops have not made any decision on whether priests should decline to perform civil aspects of weddings if a May 22 referendum on same-sex marriage is passed.

A spokesman for the Irish bishops' conference said the church might no longer perform the civil aspect of weddings, meaning couples wanting to get married in the church would have to attend a separate civil ceremony.

[deiseach]

I posted this not because I agree with it, but because it reminded me of the style used by much of the religious right in the US, albeit the other way round.

So you posted something that is likely to persuade undecided people to vote No?

[deiseach]

I think the inevitable logic of the referendum is a complete separation of church and civil weddings. You'll have the lads who in the Ashers bakery case asking to get married in Free Presbyterian churches. I don't see such a separation as a bad thing, it's the way things work in France (for example) and no one bats an eyelid.

[muppet]

I posted this not because I agree with it, but because it reminded me of the style used by much of the religious right in the US, albeit the other way round.

So you posted something that is likely to persuade undecided people to vote No?

I couldn't care less how people vote.

If that blog by whoever danohiggins is, upsets someone into voting no fine. But presumably you are also fine with Tony Fearon's arguments then?

If you vote No, it is hardly because of some never heard of blogger. If it is, then the political spin doctors are either a complete waste of money, or geniuses, considering they may actually be secretly behind the blog (and Tony Fearon!).

[muppet]

I think the inevitable logic of the referendum is a complete separation of church and civil weddings. You'll have the lads who in the Ashers bakery case asking to get married in Free Presbyterian churches. I don't see such a separation as a bad thing, it's the way things work in France (for example) and no one bats an eyelid.

Really, so good Catholics will have to have two ceremonies now, because the Church is threatening to throw its toys out of the pram?

Personally, I think there is a 0% chance of the Church here risking such a lucrative business.

[deiseach]

I couldn't care less how people vote.

If that blog by whoever danohiggins is, upsets someone into voting no fine. But presumably you are also fine with Tony Fearon's arguments then?

If you vote No, it is hardly because of some never heard of blogger. If it is, then the political spin doctors are either a complete waste of money, or geniuses, considering they may actually be secretly behind the blog (and Tony Fearon!).

You don't care how people vote? You had me fooled.

[deiseach]

I think the inevitable logic of the referendum is a complete separation of church and civil weddings. You'll have the lads who in the Ashers bakery case asking to get married in Free Presbyterian churches. I don't see such a separation as a bad thing, it's the way things work in France (for example) and no one bats an eyelid.

Really, so good Catholics will have to have two ceremonies now, because the Church is threatening to throw its toys out of the pram?

Personally, I think there is a 0% chance of the Church here risking such a lucrative business.

That's the way it works in France. 'Good Catholics' have no problem with it, I was at such a wedding a few years back. The civil service took five minutes - you could barely call it a 'service' at all - then everyone piled off to the church. I am certain that the Catholic Church would prefer that system rather than countenance the possibility of having to play host to gay ceremonies.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Like nrico said, it's not marriage. If gays want to sign a form stating their pension goes to the other, that's fair enough. It's their pension to do as they please. But there should be no "marriage" ceremony. No adoption or ivf either.

For everyone or just "the gays"?

[muppet]

I couldn't care less how people vote.

If that blog by whoever danohiggins is, upsets someone into voting no fine. But presumably you are also fine with Tony Fearon's arguments then?

If you vote No, it is hardly because of some never heard of blogger. If it is, then the political spin doctors are either a complete waste of money, or geniuses, considering they may actually be secretly behind the blog (and Tony Fearon!).

You don't care how people vote? You had me fooled.

I love cut and thrust of the debate. 

Voting is a personal issue.

[deiseach]

That Dan Higgins post was a poor contribution to the debate. And that's including the idea that it was meant to be a poor contribution to the debate.

[AZOffaly]

http://daneohiggins.com/2015/04/24/5-reasons-to-vote-no/

5 REASONS TO VOTE NO

APRIL 24, 2015 DAN HIGGINS   

There's a referendum coming up, just in case you didn't know. The referendum concerns two issues:

Should the age of a Presidential Candidate be lowered from 35 to 21 years of age and;
Should marriage be extended equally to all persons regardless of sex.
The second one, as you would imagine, is gathering more interest. What with it concerning all people having equal rights and all. Here are 5 reasons you should vote No on number 2, maybe even number 1.

1. You like things just the way they are: Change, why would you change anything at all? You like things the way they are. Everything in its place. Change is scary after all. The fact is that if this passes and we as a country vote Yes then Ireland will slip off the shelf and plunge into the Atlantic...FACT!

2. Standards of Weddings: If we allow everyone to have equal rights and marry who they love then the fact is that the LGBT community will probably set the standard for Weddings impossibly high. There will be colours and themes that the average Irish man could never dream of or indeed live up to. Look at Panti Bliss for example. That chick knows how to throw a party. Imagine that. Shindigs like the country has never seen before.

3. Increase in Tourism: Ireland voting No in this referendum will send a clear signal to the world that we are still that country which likes to segregate people, push people to the fringes of society and deny equality to all. We could see an increase in visitors from groups such as the Neo-Nazis, the KKK and perhaps even The Westboro Baptist Church.

4. Parenting: Voting yes in this referendum might give LGBT people more power to have, raise, adopt and love children of their very own. Two people of the same sex raising a child couldn't possibly do a good job of that. Never before in human history have we seen two people of the same sex raising a child. Nope, never. It would be a disaster. Like a Mother helping her Daughter raise her child or a Father giving advice to his Son. Imagine a child having two loving Mothers or two adoring Fathers? Awful stuff altogether.

5. You're a moron: That's right. You should definitely vote No if you are a moron. If you believe it is absolutely paramount to deny equality to all people then you should vote no. If you believe that not all people deserve happiness then vote no. If you believe you have the right to interfere in other peoples decisions and who they can marry then vote no.

Ireland is on the verge of change right now. We have some very draconian traditions and laws which quite simply have no place in the modern world. Love is one of those things you don't choose, it just happens. To live in a country where you are made to feel like a second class citizen because you are denied a basic right afforded to others must be heart breaking and utterly demoralising.

I became a father recently. My little girl is on the verge of turning 6 months old. I want nothing but happiness for her in her future. If she grows up and decides that she would like to marry the love of her life then I hope she can do so without impediment. It shouldn't matter if that person is a male or a female, it should only matter that she loves them and that they love her.

I'll be voting Yes in this election. My generation and the generations before me still refer to people as straight people, gay people, lesbian people, transgender people and bisexual people. Maybe a yes vote will take us one step closer to my Daughters generation just having people. One big group of happy people.

This sort of shite does my head in. It would make me vote no to shove the self righteousness up his hole. Good job I don't believe the average gay person is represented by such smart arse stuff as that.

[Billys Boots]

It would make me vote no to shove the self righteousness up his hole.

Jaysus, I thought you were a more 'considered' voter than that.