The Ballymurphy Massacre 1971

[johnnycool]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ballymurphy-inquest-findings-to-be-published-in-belfast-in-may-1.4521079

Findings due in May.

50 years on and the families still searching for justice and you still have the sanctimonious Free Staters telling us to suck it up.

Nice hijacking of a topic, I'm sure you are in a bother about the Ballymurphy families

it's hardly 'hijacking' to give an update on a topic that's in the news today ffs.

Fr Hugh Mullan is from Portaferry and I'd know a few of his family. They'll not get justice but at least the story is being told and once again it was barbarism by those in British Army uniforms.

[Angelo]

Big day today.

Hopefully some justice for the families but we've been here before and we know the British government will do everything in their power to suppress the truth.

[johnnycool]

Big day today.

Hopefully some justice for the families but we've been here before and we know the British government will do everything in their power to suppress the truth.

They'll give with one hand in a court in Belfast and take with the other with the Queens speech in Westminster..

Be interesting how they spin the Westminster thing as it's also an amnesty for every combatant and not just soldiers and police..

[brokencrossbar1]

I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it?  And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.

The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out

[Armagh18]

I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it?  And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.

The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out

110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.

[dec]

https://twitter.com/FinucaneCentre/status/1392098882193137664

@FinucaneCentre 'All entirely innocent' #Ballymurphy #BallymurphyMassacre

[Angelo]

50 years it took to acknowledge what the victims families have always known.

[Main Street]

I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it?  And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.

The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out

110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.

That's all well and good to point fingers at scummy free staters  but at what time in history was the Ballymurphy massacre recognised as a massacre? I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event,  part of the West Belfast festival  in 1998  and they only connected  the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one  each of the families gave account of the murders.  Up to that point the murdered were stigmatised as being IRA members, including a priest on his way to render last rites to one of the murdered.
And from that time onwards the campaign for justice began in earnest.
If one is to talk about justice, what is the first major step in that process for for a family?  to have the murdered cleared of all stigma and declared  not just innocent but murdered in cold blood?

[Angelo]

I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it?  And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.

The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out

110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.

That's all well and good to point fingers at scummy free staters  but at what time in history was the Ballymurphy massacre recognised as a massacre? I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event,  part of the West Belfast festival  in 1998  and they only connected  the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one  each of the families gave account of the murders.  Up to that point the murdered were stigmatised as being IRA members, including a priest on his way to render last rites to one of the murdered.
And from that time onwards the campaign for justice began in earnest.
If one is to talk about justice, what is the first major step in that process for for a family?  to have the murdered cleared of all stigma and declared  not just innocent but murdered in cold blood?

What sort of chance had any nationalist of justice pre GFA?

Bloody Sunday
Majella O'Hare
Aidan McAnespie
Paddy McElhone
Ballymurphy
etc
etc

All cold blooded murders of civilians committed by the British state that took 40-50 years for the British State to acknowledge what they were.

It's an emotional day for the families (those of whom are still around) to finally hear this but it's beyond shocking it took so long.

[An Watcher]

I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event,  part of the West Belfast festival  in 1998  and they only connected  the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one  each of the families gave account of the murders.  - as if it took the people 30 odd years to know a crime had been committed. They knew that day ffs

[brokencrossbar1]

I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it?  And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.

The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out

110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.

That's all well and good to point fingers at scummy free staters  but at what time in history was the Ballymurphy massacre recognised as a massacre? I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event,  part of the West Belfast festival  in 1998  and they only connected  the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one  each of the families gave account of the murders.  Up to that point the murdered were stigmatised as being IRA members, including a priest on his way to render last rites to one of the murdered.
And from that time onwards the campaign for justice began in earnest.
If one is to talk about justice, what is the first major step in that process for for a family?  to have the murdered cleared of all stigma and declared  not just innocent but murdered in cold blood?

Maybe from 1998 people could have started seeing it for what it was?  It was always a state sponsored killing spree, the naming of it is irrelevant.

Your response simply backs up what is often said. No where did I mention 'scummy free staters' but I will categorically point the finger at the fact that I personally was treated differently by people who were born on the same island as me, who purport to have the same ideological or at least a similar ideology to me in that we perceive ourselves to all be Irish, yet there is either and antipathy or worse still in the case of some, a downright dislike for nationalist/republicans from the north. Successive governments have continued to tip their hats to London when it comes to atrocities in the north, and the south when you consider the Monaghan and Dublin bombings, yet people in the MSM simply point the fingers at SF and castigate them.

Today is another example of how ordinary, normal people in this small pet of our island were targeted by state sponsored killers. They committed war crimes and should face sanctions as a result. They won't. Does that sit well with you and should the Irish government support citizens of this island that they would hope to one day rule, or are they happy to leave us to our own devices like they have done for the last 100 years?

[Main Street]

I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event,  part of the West Belfast festival  in 1998  and they only connected  the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one  each of the families gave account of the murders.  - as if it took the people 30 odd years to know a crime had been committed. They knew that day ffs

Obviously the families knew their family member was murdered on that night, is that what you're struggling to expresss? 

How long did it take the families to recognise that it was a concerted masssacre and start a campaign for justice? The news report claimed it started in 1998

[Main Street]

I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it?  And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.

The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out

110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.

That's all well and good to point fingers at scummy free staters  but at what time in history was the Ballymurphy massacre recognised as a massacre? I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event,  part of the West Belfast festival  in 1998  and they only connected  the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one  each of the families gave account of the murders.  Up to that point the murdered were stigmatised as being IRA members, including a priest on his way to render last rites to one of the murdered.
And from that time onwards the campaign for justice began in earnest.
If one is to talk about justice, what is the first major step in that process for for a family?  to have the murdered cleared of all stigma and declared  not just innocent but murdered in cold blood?

Maybe from 1998 people could have started seeing it for what it was?  It was always a state sponsored killing spree, the naming of it is irrelevant.

Your response simply backs up what is often said. No where did I mention 'scummy free staters' but I will categorically point the finger at the fact that I personally was treated differently by people who were born on the same island as me, who purport to have the same ideological or at least a similar ideology to me in that we perceive ourselves to all be Irish, yet there is either and antipathy or worse still in the case of some, a downright dislike for nationalist/republicans from the north. Successive governments have continued to tip their hats to London when it comes to atrocities in the north, and the south when you consider the Monaghan and Dublin bombings, yet people in the MSM simply point the fingers at SF and castigate them.

Today is another example of how ordinary, normal people in this small pet of our island were targeted by state sponsored killers. They committed war crimes and should face sanctions as a result. They won't. Does that sit well with you and should the Irish government support citizens of this island that they would hope to one day rule, or are they happy to leave us to our own devices like they have done for the last 100 years?

The adjective scummy was my description of the attitudes of those southern people you referred to
In the time scale of events, it is significant that the Ballymurphy massacre was not publicly known as a massacre even in the North until 1998. By that time it had become a legacy event to southerners  something that happened from the past to be put behind us.  I would even  hazard a guess that many nordies on this board were not aware of the extent of the details of the masssacre  until viewing that C4 documentary.  For myself I was not aware  of the piece by piece account until I stumbled upon  some documentaries on You Tube a few years ago.

[Rossfan]

Thankfully what everyone knew has been legally stated now.

[BennyCake]

So, since the ten people killed were entirely innocent, that means state forces were entirely guilty.

So, this is only the beginning. Those who murdered them are guilty, and need to face court/sentencing.

But, like Bloody Sunday, I won't be holding my breath for that.