English V Carey

[homeofhurling8]

Obviously im biased(a blood splattered,sweat drenched Nicky English jersey takes pride of place above my desk in head office,in a glass case obviously!) but i would vote Nicky every time over DJ,just as any Kilkennyman worth his salt would argue the opposite,in fairness its difficult to compare the pair as they were such different hurlers.

The thing about Nicky is that his best hurling was done before live televised matches were the norm,those of us who were lucky enough to watch him in the early days will never forget his brilliance in 83,84 and especially in the 85 Munster final against Cork when he was as close to unmarkable as i've ever seen.

He was pretty close to the perfect hurler imho,the fluidity of his stroke off either side was an utter joy,he had blistering pace early on in his career before those damned flat feet started to affect his hamstrings,he was a powerful man for his build,not many could shoulder him off the ball,he was tough,he had to be in the days when lads like Seamie Hannon could perform amateur dentistry on a man without giving away as much as a free but above all he had wit,vision and intelligence on the field like no other imho.

[GalwayBayBoy]

As  Kevin Cashman said in another context to compare Nickey English to DJ Carey is to compare the Sydney Operahouse to the Cork Operahouse. English by a country mile. Cooney became far too fat and slow too early to be considered great.

Joe Cooney was always in good shape in his prime as you would imagine given he was a farmer. He only started to put on timber in the latter years of his career from around 1995 on when he hit his 30's. Besides Christy Ring was a fat hoor all his life so extra poundage shouldn't come into assessing a hurler's merits.

[homeofhurling8]

I would even put Nicky's teammate Pat Fox on a par if not ahead of him.

AZ,we will have to meet up for a pint some day so i can have a chat with you about the above statement and prove to you that it is just plain wrong on so many levels Anyone who knows me on here and other boards will attest to my sore spot in the English v Fox debate.

[homeofhurling8]

Nicky smiling? he was laughing, at the Clare lads "ahhh haa haa haaa" he was going, took the helmet off and laughed at them all, "ha ha!"

Lougnane knew fine well Nicky wasnt laughing at Clare,he was joking around with Declan Ryan who had basically eschewed numerous opportunities to score himself to set Nicky up for a score just after his introduction from the bench,in his haste to fire up his troops by demonising Nicky Loughnane failed to think about the consequences for the entirely innocent English who to this day has to put up with jibes from Clare yahoos.

[homeofhurling8]

As  Kevin Cashman said in another context to compare Nickey English to DJ Carey is to compare the Sydney Operahouse to the Cork Operahouse. English by a country mile. Cooney became far too fat and slow too early to be considered great.

As much as i admired the incomparable Cashman he undoubtedly had a blind spot when it came to DJ,once famously suggesting that Ciaran Carey was a better hurler than DJ,and he was serious as i discovered in The County in Thurles when he listed his reasons why,each more ludicrous than the last ! Cashman also had a major soft spot for English since his Fitzgibbon  exploits with UCC.

[mouview]

Agree with AZ that Whelehan was the best of his era. Rather more difficult to compare English, Carey and Cooney as each was subtly different; to use an analogy from another sport, English was a Van Nistlerooy, DJ a Henry and Cooney a Zidane. Cooney was a superb playmaker and game-reader; current comparisons between he and Joe Canning are not at all far off the mark.

[TBT]

As  Kevin Cashman said in another context to compare Nickey English to DJ Carey is to compare the Sydney Operahouse to the Cork Operahouse. English by a country mile. Cooney became far too fat and slow too early to be considered great.

As much as i admired the incomparable Cashman he undoubtedly had a blind spot when it came to DJ,once famously suggesting that Ciaran Carey was a better hurler than DJ,and he was serious as i discovered in The County in Thurles when he listed his reasons why,each more ludicrous than the last ! Cashman also had a major soft spot for English since his Fitzgibbon  exploits with UCC.

In fairness to Cashman, it had to be galling for any Corkman who had seen the majesty of Ring, to see the Kilkenny propaganda machine spinning out of control wrt to as  flawed a hurler as Carey. Schadenfreude at Carey's woefull performences v Cork in recent All Ire finalswas had by all in Cork.THe Carey spin machine has certainly forever soured Cork views on him. As you mention English was clearly the best hurler hurler in the Country from the early 80s but got v little recognition because of how poor Tipp were at the the time.He had above any other hurler I saw the ability to deliever a a score when it was most needed. The Killarney equaliser the perfect example of his class. Given the l context, this score would have to go down as one of the greatest Tipp scores of all time.

[TBT]

As  Kevin Cashman said in another context to compare Nickey English to DJ Carey is to compare the Sydney Operahouse to the Cork Operahouse. English by a country mile. Cooney became far too fat and slow too early to be considered great.

Joe Cooney was always in good shape in his prime as you would imagine given he was a farmer. He only started to put on timber in the latter years of his career from around 1995 on when he hit his 30's. Besides Christy Ring was a fat hoor all his life so extra poundage shouldn't come into assessing a hurler's merits.

Cooney was in freefall from around 89 on. Ring started to put on weight in his early 40s Up untill his late 30s he was exceptionally fit as any team photo would show. btw he was still the best club hurler in Cork in 66 at 46 yrs of age.

[GalwayBayBoy]

As  Kevin Cashman said in another context to compare Nickey English to DJ Carey is to compare the Sydney Operahouse to the Cork Operahouse. English by a country mile. Cooney became far too fat and slow too early to be considered great.

Joe Cooney was always in good shape in his prime as you would imagine given he was a farmer. He only started to put on timber in the latter years of his career from around 1995 on when he hit his 30's. Besides Christy Ring was a fat hoor all his life so extra poundage shouldn't come into assessing a hurler's merits.

Cooney was in freefall from around 89 on.

Yet put in a virtuoso performance in the 1990 All -Ireland final and led his club almost single-handedly to two All-Ireland club titles in 93 and 94. Not bad for a man in freefall. That Galway team was getting old by 1990 but Cooney was still a great hurler well into the mid-1990's.

[The Real Laoislad]

DJ wins hands down imho there was no better..
DJ was also a gentleman and always had time for you when you met him,I met English a few times and i thought he was a auld bollix

thats harsh. I've met Nicky a few times and he was always the perfect gentleman.

I concur with what was said here. Cooney was better than Nicky by a street. DJ was better too, in my biased opinion. But they were different types of players really so its probably not a valid comparison.

Not harsh at all,I met him a few times thru work i done back then and always found him to be a bollix thats just my opinion on the man,Carey on the otherhand was always a gentleman

[TBT]

As  Kevin Cashman said in another context to compare Nickey English to DJ Carey is to compare the Sydney Operahouse to the Cork Operahouse. English by a country mile. Cooney became far too fat and slow too early to be considered great.

Joe Cooney was always in good shape in his prime as you would imagine given he was a farmer. He only started to put on timber in the latter years of his career from around 1995 on when he hit his 30's. Besides Christy Ring was a fat hoor all his life so extra poundage shouldn't come into assessing a hurler's merits.

Cooney was in freefall from around 89 on.

Yet put in a virtuoso performance in the 1990 All -Ireland final and led his club almost single-handedly to two All-Ireland club titles in 93 and 94. Not bad for a man in freefall. That Galway team was getting old by 1990 but Cooney was still a great hurler well into the mid-1990's.

He mixed the brilliant with the awfull in the 90 final. Club hurling is irrelevant to this. Given his age he should have been the dominant player of the early 90s . No Galway person could argue he fulfilled his potential in his late 20s.

[GalwayBayBoy]

As  Kevin Cashman said in another context to compare Nickey English to DJ Carey is to compare the Sydney Operahouse to the Cork Operahouse. English by a country mile. Cooney became far too fat and slow too early to be considered great.

Joe Cooney was always in good shape in his prime as you would imagine given he was a farmer. He only started to put on timber in the latter years of his career from around 1995 on when he hit his 30's. Besides Christy Ring was a fat hoor all his life so extra poundage shouldn't come into assessing a hurler's merits.

Cooney was in freefall from around 89 on.

Yet put in a virtuoso performance in the 1990 All -Ireland final and led his club almost single-handedly to two All-Ireland club titles in 93 and 94. Not bad for a man in freefall. That Galway team was getting old by 1990 but Cooney was still a great hurler well into the mid-1990's.

He mixed the brilliant with the awfull in the 90 final. Club hurling is irrelevant to this. Given his age he should have been the dominant player of the early 90s . No Galway person could argue he fulfilled his potential in his late 20s.

Come on now. Be serious. He was brilliant in the 1990 final. Less brilliant in the second half admitedly but he was not to blame for Galway losing. It was the fact that the Galway full-back line had bus sized holes in it during the entire second half and couldn't stop leaking goals. To say he was at any stage "awful" is just nonsense.

Galway as a whole were going slowly downhill after 1990 simply because they were losing many of the players that kept them at the top during the 1980's and their replacements weren't as good. Galway weren't good enough to win titles at that time so I'm not sure how that is Joe Cooney's fault who was still their best player during this period. If he didn't fulfill his potential during his late 20's it certainly wasn't his fault. He hadn't the supporting cast around him like he had in the mid to late 80's.

Certainly by 1995 Cooney was showing signs of serious milage on the clock and probably played on a little too long seeing as he only retired in 2000 but in his late 20's he was still producing great hurling. That in itself wasn't enough for Galway at the time.

As for club hurling being irrelevant I suspect it only is as it doesn't suit your argument.

[homeofhurling8]

As  Kevin Cashman said in another context to compare Nickey English to DJ Carey is to compare the Sydney Operahouse to the Cork Operahouse. English by a country mile. Cooney became far too fat and slow too early to be considered great.

As much as i admired the incomparable Cashman he undoubtedly had a blind spot when it came to DJ,once famously suggesting that Ciaran Carey was a better hurler than DJ,and he was serious as i discovered in The County in Thurles when he listed his reasons why,each more ludicrous than the last ! Cashman also had a major soft spot for English since his Fitzgibbon  exploits with UCC.

In fairness to Cashman, it had to be galling for any Corkman who had seen the majesty of Ring, to see the Kilkenny propaganda machine spinning out of control wrt to as  flawed a hurler as Carey. Schadenfreude at Carey's woefull performences v Cork in recent All Ire finalswas had by all in Cork.THe Carey spin machine has certainly forever soured Cork views on him. As you mention English was clearly the best hurler hurler in the Country from the early 80s but got v little recognition because of how poor Tipp were at the the time.He had above any other hurler I saw the ability to deliever a a score when it was most needed. The Killarney equaliser the perfect example of his class. Given the l context, this score would have to go down as one of the greatest Tipp scores of all time.

TBT,im a huge fan of Cashman,he simply had no peers when it came to hurling writing imho but he had the odd headstagger every now and then,Dj was one of them,his little spat with skippy Cleary was another but thats another discussion.

My own take on the Dj situation is that the whole hype thing that surrounded him(through no fault of his own) probably pissed people off to such an extent that in the end the wood obscured the trees to a certain extent,he was a great hurler and whatever his faults he most certainly shouldnt be spoken of in the same terms as the likes of Ciaran Carey who was a fine hurler but not in the same league as his namesake noreside.

I thoroughly agree with you on Nickys point at the end of normal time in Killarney in 87,i remember having an arguement on this board about its merits years ago,to my mind it was the ballsiest Tipp score I've seen in my lifetime,not just to win the most "must win" puck out in 16 years for a  tipp player through a forest of Cork jersies but to have the guts and foresight to take the point when half of Killarney was screaming for a goal took incredible intestinal fortitude,had he done what Leahy did in Croke park 10 years later against Clare and missed when going for goal God only knows when the famine would have ended !

[INDIANA]

always thought cashman was a cantankerous old b****  to be honest. some of the stuff he wrote about DJ was a disgrace quite frankly. Think DJ  was a mile better than them to be honest. English had too many injuries unfortunately but was still a brilliant hurler as was Cooney. DJ was the most marked man in the game,for all his undoubted skill and talent he got no credit for his sheer bravery at times when he was being broken up in games. yeah he has others to help him out but he had no more than english or cooney did to help them out. DJ is the best modern day hurler i 've seen , i didn't see Ring so i don't know.
I though English was  a gentleman to be honest when i met him. wouldn't agree that he was anything else.

[muppet]

As  Kevin Cashman said in another context to compare Nickey English to DJ Carey is to compare the Sydney Operahouse to the Cork Operahouse. English by a country mile. Cooney became far too fat and slow too early to be considered great.

By that logic George Best and Maradona dont rate in the other game.