No Regrets..............

[full back]

Very difficult case
If he had just got up & shot the burglar I would agree with his actions 100%, cant remember all the facts but heard something about the burglar being stuck etc as well as Tony Martin lying in wait with a pump action shotgun which would make me have slight reservations about his actions.........
What would you do?
I think I would have done something similar to Martin, but wouldnt be discussing it close to the 10 year anniversary




http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2009/08/21/10-years-after-shooting-dead-teenage-burglar-farmer-tony-martin-says-i-have-no-regrets-86908-21613054/

TONY MARTIN has declared that he has no remorse about shooting dead a teenage burglar at his remote farmhouse 10 years ago.

The 64-year-old farmer insisted he was right to kill Fred Barras, 16, and seriously injure Brendan Fearon, 31, after they broke into his home.

Martin lay in wait with a pump-action shotgun on August 20, 1999, at Bleak House in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk. His home had been repeatedly raided.

The vigilante said: "I don't have any regrets at all - I don't see why I should.

"It was forced upon me and it would appear it wasn't a bad idea to happen.

Problem "We had no law and order and if I'm responsible for shooting those people, the police are equally culpable."

And Martin insisted little had changed in 10 years.

He said: "The police play this game where they say if you've a problem, give us a ring. When you do ring, they tell you why they can't do anything. "

His conviction for murder in April 2000 was reduced to manslaughter on appeal and he was released in 2003.

He added: "I've no more regrets than people who break into people's houses."

[SidelineKick]

100% agree with him.

[screenmachine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS7qw49q2r4

Proper order as well, two in the chest and one in the head just to be sure.  One of them definitely never robbed anyone else again and I'd be pretty sure the other would have serious second thoughts about another.

[Doogie Browser]

I was speaking to a man who keeps guns and he would be very much from the Tony Martin school of thought too, he always said to me 'it takes two shots for a burglar, the first one in the head and the second one in the ceiling as a warning'

[muppet]

That article doesn't mention the multiple previous burglaries on the guy, which were reported to police with no arrests and the other robberies on his neighbours, also reported to the police with no arrests.

They got what was coming to them.

Edit: I see online one of the burglers attempted to sue Martin for loss of earnings due to the injury suffered while trying to rob him.

Edit 2: Also according to the net Martin left the guy to de and didn't call the cops. I still agree with shooting them but he should have called the cops/ambulance.

[stew]

He had ever right to protect his property however it does seem excessive to me what he did, that said if a sc**bag burgular gets killed robbing somebody I wouldnt have a lot of sympathy for them.

[deiseach]

There isn't a single police force on planet Earth that would advocate a situation where you should be automatically  permitted to kill an intruder. Tony Martin may have ice flowing through his veins but the rest of us would find it hard to pull the trigger and end up getting killed themselves by the crook who, by definition, is more inclined to acts of cruelty. This is what happened to a neighbour of mine (okay, he lived a few miles away) when he tackled an intruder having being filled with all manner of tales of what-exactly-you-should-do by a friend of his. So let's not make a hero of Tony Martin. It's only going to make situations like the one I've described more common.

[stew]

There isn't a single police force on planet Earth that would advocate a situation where you should be automatically  permitted to kill an intruder. Tony Martin may have ice flowing through his veins but the rest of us would find it hard to pull the trigger and end up getting killed themselves by the crook who, by definition, is more inclined to acts of cruelty. This is what happened to a neighbour of mine (okay, he lived a few miles away) when he tackled an intruder having being filled with all manner of tales of what-exactly-you-should-do by a friend of his. So let's not make a hero of Tony Martin. It's only going to make situations like the one I've described more common.

I would not hesitate to pull the trigger if my home was getting broken into if my wife and or one of my kids were there, I would however try to incapacitate them rather than kill them if they did not have a gun, if they had a gun I would shoot the fcukers head clean off.

We had two scumbags drive onto our property and they destroyed flower beds and they tried to take out the electrical circuts and the cable box which was on the ground at the edge of the property. I head the noise and grabbed the gun and fired two shots at the wheels of the car, the tramps took off but were caught shortly thereafter, they claimed I was a racist and that I tried to kill them and they wanted me locked up!!wtf. The cops told me that I was lucky I didnt shoot int the car or I would have been facing serious charges as they were not directly attacking my home. What a country. Needless to say i got off and the two hispanic scumbags got jail.

Oh yeah, they were at a neighbours house, after the dust settled I went to him and told him the days of him holding parties were over, half the tramps that frequent his place are illegal and I told him that if another property got touched and I even thought his pals were involved I would call immigration, I would do it too, These people have been getting hammered and wrecking around our neighbourhood for years, enough is enough.

[Denn Forever]

Padraig Nally?

A 61-year-old Co Mayo farmer has been jailed for six years for the killing of a Traveller at his farm in October last year.

Padraig Nally, from Cross in south Mayo, was tried for the murder of 42-year-old John 'Frog' Ward in the Central Criminal Court in July. The jury returned a verdict of guilty of manslaughter.

Sentencing Nally today, Mr Justice Paul Carney said it was the most difficult matter he had to deal with in more than14 years on the bench.

Nally shot Mr Ward twice and beat him 20 times with a stick. 

The second and fatal shot was fired after Mr Ward had left Nally's farmyard in October 2004 and was limping down the road, in manifest retreat, Mr Justice Paul Carney said today.

Nally claimed in his defence that he believed his life was under threat and he was in the grip of fear.

In the 18 months before the shooting he said there were two break-ins at his property and he was growing increasingly paranoid and fearful.

The judge accepted that Nally was initially protecting his property against an invasion from someone that he pointed out everyone agreed was up to no good. It was events after this point that informed his sentencing.

Nally has no previous convictions and was considered a low risk of re-offending. Mr Justice Carney jailed him for six years. Mr Ward's widow, Marie, and other Ward family members have expressed disappointment at the jury verdict and the sentence.

Nally's legal team is seeking leave to appeal because they claim the trial judge usurped the jury's function when he refused to allow them to consider a full defence argument of self-defence. If this defence had succeeded Nally would have walked free.

How does the board find?

[David McKeown]

I remember reading the decision of Martin's case and the evidence tended to suggest that not only had Martin left Barras to die but that he had also shot both intruders in the back as they were leaving.  It also suggested that Martin had seen them coming from a long way away and had planned how he was going to deal with them.  For me that is murder so I have little sympathy for him

[pintsofguinness]

I remember reading the decision of Martin's case and the evidence tended to suggest that not only had Martin left Barras to die but that he had also shot both intruders in the back as they were leaving.  It also suggested that Martin had seen them coming from a long way away and had planned how he was going to deal with them.  For me that is murder so I have little sympathy for him

I've no sympathy for the boys that broke in but I've also little sympathy for Martin.  Cold blooded murder is what he's responsible for.  This shite about him being a nervous wreck because he was robbed twice in 18 months, I once lived in a house that was robbed twice in 10 days! and continued to live there and didnt sit up with a gun.

[stew]

I remember reading the decision of Martin's case and the evidence tended to suggest that not only had Martin left Barras to die but that he had also shot both intruders in the back as they were leaving.  It also suggested that Martin had seen them coming from a long way away and had planned how he was going to deal with them.  For me that is murder so I have little sympathy for him

I've no sympathy for the boys that broke in but I've also little sympathy for Martin.  Cold blooded murder is what he's responsible for.  This shite about him being a nervous wreck because he was robbed twice in 18 months, I once lived in a house that was robbed twice in 10 days! and continued to live there and didnt sit up with a gun.

Aye but you arent him pog and you arent 61 years old. You didnt live in his shoes and by all accounts yer man was a bad, bad bastid.

[brokencrossbar1]

While I have sympathy for what happened to Nally and Martin we do not have the right to live in a vigilante society which justifies people taking the gun into their own hands and killing.  Laws are there to be obeyed by everyone and not cherry picked because the likes of Joe Duffy, Stephen Nolan or Jeremy Kyle think that there is a "cause" to protect.  The unfortunate thing is that there are many people like Nally and Martin but they don't pick up a gun, or a baseball bat or whatever they can to beat the living daylights out of someone who threatens them. 

There is a social contract that people buy into.  It is that the laws of the country will be obeyed and observed and if they are not then they will be reported to and dealt with by the appropriate authorities.  If they are not dealt with that does not give a person the right to make themsleves judge, jury and executioner.  There will always be gaps, there will always be mistakes and miscarriages of justice.  We cannot as a civil society take it upon ourselves to bypass the system otherwise there would be anarchy.

[stew]

While I have sympathy for what happened to Nally and Martin we do not have the right to live in a vigilante society which justifies people taking the gun into their own hands and killing.  Laws are there to be obeyed by everyone and not cherry picked because the likes of Joe Duffy, Stephen Nolan or Jeremy Kyle think that there is a "cause" to protect.  The unfortunate thing is that there are many people like Nally and Martin but they don't pick up a gun, or a baseball bat or whatever they can to beat the living daylights out of someone who threatens them. 

There is a social contract that people buy into.  It is that the laws of the country will be obeyed and observed and if they are not then they will be reported to and dealt with by the appropriate authorities.  If they are not dealt with that does not give a person the right to make themsleves judge, jury and executioner.  There will always be gaps, there will always be mistakes and miscarriages of justice.  We cannot as a civil society take it upon ourselves to bypass the system otherwise there would be anarchy.

There is a case going on in the north right now where a hood threatened six men who stopped him from destroying the greens at a golf course, he swore revenge on them all after he was prosecuted, he delivered on that promise on three before breaking the jaw and giving the fourth a severe concussion, now this gentleman sent this victims family a message that he was going to do him again and again, he followed this victim a year later and before he could pounch on him again he himself was jumped upon by assailants unknown and got the living shite beat out of him. That to me is justifiable and given the history I would let the people charged with beating this sc**bag off without a problem, he will end up killing somebody and he picked on the wrong man to mess with.

If someone would go to those lengths, do that damage and then threaten more and the police and the laws of the land  do nothing to protect you or your family then the only recourse has to be to drop him before he drops you.

Lawyer spake of social contracts etc are great BC but if good people who have never fallen foul of the law are not protected by the law then they may have to take said law into their own hands for self preservation purposes, I know I would.

[pintsofguinness]

Stew it wouldnt be so bad and more understandable if she shot once and then called the police or ambulance, it's his actions after the confrontation that's the main thing in my eyes.