Clerical abuse!

Started by D4S, May 20, 2009, 05:09:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

We all know this disgusting scandal is as a result of The Church and The State, but who do you hold mostly accountable, and should therefore pay out the most in compensation to victims?

The State
The Church
Split 50/50

mylestheslasher

Quote from: Donagh on May 25, 2009, 06:36:21 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 01:49:40 PM
So what did the parish priests have to say for themselves at the weekend. Donagh, GDA  or any of ye that went to mass......

FFS Myles on one hand you're going to chase me from the door when I come canvassing because you have me pegged as a Shinner and now you have me down as a regular Mass attender because I'm trying to point out that others are laible for this scandal than the Church. On both cases you are incorrect, but since you ask, I was at a Traditional (Latin) Mass yesterday. They tend not to dwell on such parochial matters as this but we did pray for the salvation of Protestants, the conversion of the Jews and the conversion of communist Russia.

Must let them know next time that they've got the last one bate.

Sorry Donagh, I thought somewhere before you said you were a Sinn Fein member. Got my wires crossed on that one.

mylestheslasher

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
PPS, it's better to be armed with the facts.

The Catholic Church in Ireland doesn't have control over any religious order.  Religious orders have their own processes for making decisions.  So, the Church had nothing to do with the court case the Brothers brought against the state.

Oh yes, when it suits them they have no control. So I suppose the christian brothers could just do anything they like without fear of Rome. Of course they can't. The arch bishop of Dublin today said he was giving them a chance to consider paying more. He then said that he was doing this instead of "telling" them to do more, which sort of implies he could force them to if he wanted to.

ardmhachaabu

Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
PPS, it's better to be armed with the facts.

The Catholic Church in Ireland doesn't have control over any religious order.  Religious orders have their own processes for making decisions.  So, the Church had nothing to do with the court case the Brothers brought against the state.

Oh yes, when it suits them they have no control. So I suppose the christian brothers could just do anything they like without fear of Rome. Of course they can't. The arch bishop of Dublin today said he was giving them a chance to consider paying more. He then said that he was doing this instead of "telling" them to do more, which sort of implies he could force them to if he wanted to.
Look at the bits I emboldened.  Try reading what I type, it helps.
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

Ping Pong Santa

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:03:47 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
PPS, it's better to be armed with the facts.

The Catholic Church in Ireland doesn't have control over any religious order.  Religious orders have their own processes for making decisions.  So, the Church had nothing to do with the court case the Brothers brought against the state.

Oh yes, when it suits them they have no control. So I suppose the christian brothers could just do anything they like without fear of Rome. Of course they can't. The arch bishop of Dublin today said he was giving them a chance to consider paying more. He then said that he was doing this instead of "telling" them to do more, which sort of implies he could force them to if he wanted to.
Look at the bits I emboldened.  Try reading what I type, it helps.

I'm hugely confused, so are you agreeing that the Christian Brothers can do what they want without any bother from the Catholic Church?

mylestheslasher

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:03:47 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
PPS, it's better to be armed with the facts.

The Catholic Church in Ireland doesn't have control over any religious order.  Religious orders have their own processes for making decisions.  So, the Church had nothing to do with the court case the Brothers brought against the state.

Oh yes, when it suits them they have no control. So I suppose the christian brothers could just do anything they like without fear of Rome. Of course they can't. The arch bishop of Dublin today said he was giving them a chance to consider paying more. He then said that he was doing this instead of "telling" them to do more, which sort of implies he could force them to if he wanted to.
Look at the bits I emboldened.  Try reading what I type, it helps.

The arch bishop seems to disagree with you! So are you saying the CB are directly answerable to Rome instead of the Irish church? Does that mean the government should be going to Rome for their money - I think thats a great idea. Then when the inevitable similar scandals happen in other countries they'll know where to go to.

ardmhachaabu

Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 08:16:11 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:03:47 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
PPS, it's better to be armed with the facts.

The Catholic Church in Ireland doesn't have control over any religious order.  Religious orders have their own processes for making decisions.  So, the Church had nothing to do with the court case the Brothers brought against the state.

Oh yes, when it suits them they have no control. So I suppose the christian brothers could just do anything they like without fear of Rome. Of course they can't. The arch bishop of Dublin today said he was giving them a chance to consider paying more. He then said that he was doing this instead of "telling" them to do more, which sort of implies he could force them to if he wanted to.
Look at the bits I emboldened.  Try reading what I type, it helps.

The arch bishop seems to disagree with you! So are you saying the CB are directly answerable to Rome instead of the Irish church? Does that mean the government should be going to Rome for their money - I think thats a great idea. Then when the inevitable similar scandals happen in other countries they'll know where to go to.
If you would read the bits I emboldened, it would be a lot easier to talk about issues with you.  I have a feeling you see what you want in whatever I say so I am done.
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

ardmhachaabu

Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 25, 2009, 08:09:39 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:03:47 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
PPS, it's better to be armed with the facts.

The Catholic Church in Ireland doesn't have control over any religious order.  Religious orders have their own processes for making decisions.  So, the Church had nothing to do with the court case the Brothers brought against the state.

Oh yes, when it suits them they have no control. So I suppose the christian brothers could just do anything they like without fear of Rome. Of course they can't. The arch bishop of Dublin today said he was giving them a chance to consider paying more. He then said that he was doing this instead of "telling" them to do more, which sort of implies he could force them to if he wanted to.
Look at the bits I emboldened.  Try reading what I type, it helps.

I'm hugely confused, so are you agreeing that the Christian Brothers can do what they want without any bother from the Catholic Church?
You are confused?

What is it you are confused about?  I already explained to you...
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

Ping Pong Santa

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:23:27 PM
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 25, 2009, 08:09:39 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:03:47 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
PPS, it's better to be armed with the facts.

The Catholic Church in Ireland doesn't have control over any religious order.  Religious orders have their own processes for making decisions.  So, the Church had nothing to do with the court case the Brothers brought against the state.

Oh yes, when it suits them they have no control. So I suppose the christian brothers could just do anything they like without fear of Rome. Of course they can't. The arch bishop of Dublin today said he was giving them a chance to consider paying more. He then said that he was doing this instead of "telling" them to do more, which sort of implies he could force them to if he wanted to.
Look at the bits I emboldened.  Try reading what I type, it helps.

I'm hugely confused, so are you agreeing that the Christian Brothers can do what they want without any bother from the Catholic Church?
You are confused?

What is it you are confused about?  I already explained to you...

A yes or no answer to my emboldened question would clear up my confusion.

ardmhachaabu

Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 25, 2009, 08:31:09 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:23:27 PM
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 25, 2009, 08:09:39 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:03:47 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
PPS, it's better to be armed with the facts.

The Catholic Church in Ireland doesn't have control over any religious order.  Religious orders have their own processes for making decisions.  So, the Church had nothing to do with the court case the Brothers brought against the state.

Oh yes, when it suits them they have no control. So I suppose the christian brothers could just do anything they like without fear of Rome. Of course they can't. The arch bishop of Dublin today said he was giving them a chance to consider paying more. He then said that he was doing this instead of "telling" them to do more, which sort of implies he could force them to if he wanted to.
Look at the bits I emboldened.  Try reading what I type, it helps.

I'm hugely confused, so are you agreeing that the Christian Brothers can do what they want without any bother from the Catholic Church?
You are confused?

What is it you are confused about?  I already explained to you...

A yes or no answer to my emboldened question would clear up my confusion.

You can't or won't read what I typed either?
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

Ping Pong Santa

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:32:54 PM
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 25, 2009, 08:31:09 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:23:27 PM
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 25, 2009, 08:09:39 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:03:47 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 25, 2009, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
PPS, it's better to be armed with the facts.

The Catholic Church in Ireland doesn't have control over any religious order.  Religious orders have their own processes for making decisions.  So, the Church had nothing to do with the court case the Brothers brought against the state.

Oh yes, when it suits them they have no control. So I suppose the christian brothers could just do anything they like without fear of Rome. Of course they can't. The arch bishop of Dublin today said he was giving them a chance to consider paying more. He then said that he was doing this instead of "telling" them to do more, which sort of implies he could force them to if he wanted to.
Look at the bits I emboldened.  Try reading what I type, it helps.

I'm hugely confused, so are you agreeing that the Christian Brothers can do what they want without any bother from the Catholic Church?
You are confused?

What is it you are confused about?  I already explained to you...

A yes or no answer to my emboldened question would clear up my confusion.

You can't or won't read what I typed either?


You've gone very defensive here, I'm not getting at you.

I have read what you said, I am looking for clarification without the possibility of sarcasm or defensive bitterness.

If you could please answer my emboldened question yes or no it would clear everything up.

ardmhachaabu

PPS, I will refer you to what I typed earlier.  Don't waste my time asking again.
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

Ping Pong Santa

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:44:25 PM
PPS, I will refer you to what I typed earlier.  Don't waste my time asking again.

I am at a loss to understand as to why you won't answer my very simple yes or no question?

Would it really take up so much of your precious time? You've posted twice not answering where one post would have answered.

Pangurban

Mylesthe slasher is well capable of understanding that the Religious Orders do not come under the control of the Diocesan church or any of its Bishops. His justifiable anger has clouded his judgement and led to his irrational response. Only today the Synod of Bishops said that the deal should be reviewed and if necessary renegotiated, the response of the Orders was an emphatic NO. I believe the state response should be very robust, up to and including the removal of Orders freedom to practise

ardmhachaabu

Quote from: Pangurban on May 25, 2009, 08:48:56 PM
Mylesthe slasher is well capable of understanding that the Religious Orders do not come under the control of the Diocesan church or any of its Bishops. His justifiable anger has clouded his judgement and led to his irrational response. Only today the Synod of Bishops said that the deal should be reviewed and if necessary renegotiated, the response of the Orders was an emphatic NO. I believe the state response should be very robust, up to and including the removal of Orders freedom to practise
100% correct about the Bishops.  I am unsure as to what you mean about the state response.  I mean, the state can't tell a religious order they can't practice as far as I know.  As far as I am aware, the only person who can do anything like that would be the Cardinal and even at that, as far as I know the Cardinal can only tell an order they are no longer welcome in the country.  In the case of the Brothers, I don't know what could be done.  In any case, there can't be too many Brothers left in the country.  All the schools I know of are now run by lay people and there are no Brothers teaching in any of them.
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

Pangurban

Ardmhachu i think you will find that the state can prevent certain religious groups from operating in the country, if they fail to conform to certain norms. In the past the Jesuits have been banned from operating in many Countries which would deem themselves to be catholic