Gaelic football is crap- and needs to change ASAP

[Louther]

They have to try something. Keeping three or four forwards up the field would at least limit the congestion at the other end. Make teams go long with kick outs to speed the game up and give defenses less time to set. There are lots of things they could try. Anything but the mindless, endless, gutless lateral shite we're currently being forced to endure.

Can try all you like but the coaches and managers will just adapt and become cautious as it's far easier to coach a team to try and not lose than to coach a team to win and make scores.

[J70]

They have to try something. Keeping three or four forwards up the field would at least limit the congestion at the other end. Make teams go long with kick outs to speed the game up and give defenses less time to set. There are lots of things they could try. Anything but the mindless, endless, gutless lateral shite we're currently being forced to endure.

Can try all you like but the coaches and managers will just adapt and become cautious as it's far easier to coach a team to try and not lose than to coach a team to win and make scores.

Then the game's future is fucked.

Speaking personally, I've got better things to do than watch what it is becoming.

[Louther]

They have to try something. Keeping three or four forwards up the field would at least limit the congestion at the other end. Make teams go long with kick outs to speed the game up and give defenses less time to set. There are lots of things they could try. Anything but the mindless, endless, gutless lateral shite we're currently being forced to endure.

Can try all you like but the coaches and managers will just adapt and become cautious as it's far easier to coach a team to try and not lose than to coach a team to win and make scores.

Then the game's future is fucked.

Speaking personally, I've got better things to do than watch what it is becoming.

I'd not disagree.

I'd enjoy an underage game or lower level club game as they are littered with mistakes and generally more open, leading to a more entertaining game. The quality becomes less of an issue if the game is close.

The crowds have been disappearing from the inter county game in recent years. Mayo, Armagh and Covid have hidden this in Recent years.

[onefineday]

Even hurling has become fairly tedious though. The same few teams playing each other over and over again and it has got very much possession based as well with a lot fewer goals in matches it would seem.

Pretty much agree with most commentary on the ills of football and am genuinely at a loss as to why no attempts have been made to return the game to something entertaining to a neutral. Maybe it's because most games have a period where  football breaks out and makes us think that matches are better than they were in reality?
Some of the most straightforward fixes appear to be requirements to keep a certain amount of players in each half at all times or more interestingly not allowing a team to play the ball back into their own half.
However, for all its ills, football appeals more than modern day top level hurling which is becoming increasingly unwatchable.
This article from hurler on the ditch is a good summary of much of what's going wrong:
https://hurlerontheditch267913442.wordpress.com/
Basically he laments the lack of goal threat, the ability to score at will from ridiculous ranges, incessant throw balls, unlimited steps, lack of contests.
I'd obviously take issue with his assertion that football has been proactive in making sufficient changes though, both codes need to adopt the approach of other sports and make changes to keep one step ahead of the coaches!!

[themac_23]

Even hurling has become fairly tedious though. The same few teams playing each other over and over again and it has got very much possession based as well with a lot fewer goals in matches it would seem.

Pretty much agree with most commentary on the ills of football and am genuinely at a loss as to why no attempts have been made to return the game to something entertaining to a neutral. Maybe it's because most games have a period where  football breaks out and makes us think that matches are better than they were in reality?
Some of the most straightforward fixes appear to be requirements to keep a certain amount of players in each half at all times or more interestingly not allowing a team to play the ball back into their own half.
However, for all its ills, football appeals more than modern day top level hurling which is becoming increasingly unwatchable.
This article from hurler on the ditch is a good summary of much of what's going wrong:
https://hurlerontheditch267913442.wordpress.com/
Basically he laments the lack of goal threat, the ability to score at will from ridiculous ranges, incessant throw balls, unlimited steps, lack of contests.
I'd obviously take issue with his assertion that football has been proactive in making sufficient changes though, both codes need to adopt the approach of other sports and make changes to keep one step ahead of the coaches!!

Read the article there and makes some good points, I love hurling but to be honest id far rather watch a club game than a county game these days. Club level there's a bit more of balls into the forwards as opposed to just getting the ball between the 2 65s and hitting a shot, it really is getting predictable and boring. I dont know, there's no real way to change it. If you tried to implement a you cant score from your own half policy it would just encourage teams to drop everyone back and only engage at half way, akin to football. maybe make a goal worth 5 points? at the very least keeps teams in it for longer.

I think the main problem is Hurling as a game is best watched when players are playing off the cuff, I loved the teams of the late 90s and 00s some cracking hell for leather battles, just  dont get the same feel for it now. The players are class, they are fittest they've ever been but it does just seem too take away from the game as a spectacle.

[imtommygunn]

I think in hurling, and in football, it comes back to the same thing - a Jim Gavin line. "It's all about the process". There's a lot less chance / spontaneity etc in the games now. You look at how dublin played the game, and no doubt they were fantastic, but it was about playing percentages etc so they constantly recycled possession until they were in the best possible place to score. Less chances being taken.

That said in the hurling KK still just drive it in so you'll get some good games involving them. Limerick will do the thing very precisely.

Football between the top teams I think will be better this next few years as there's no one who is capable of playing as precisely as dublin were. There will be defensive drivel in a lot of cases until the last few stages though...

[marty34]

Games evolve over time, no matter what the sport is.

There are currently some great matches, some average matches and some brutal matches. That's sport.

If you're expecting to go out every day and see a 5-23 to 4-16 scoreline, there's something wrong.

People need to get their expectations right.

It's sport.

[ONeill]

The fog of time muddies my memory.

I can't remember if a 1-6 to 0-7 game of catch and boot it as hard as you can and a rake of 1v1s across the field was better than 2-14 to 1-13 modern game with a smarter gameplan defensively.

The former probably was more exciting.

[Keyser soze]

I watched 10 minutes of Monaghan and Tyrone and switched it over. Genuinely couldn't be arsed watching Monaghans slow build up, passing the ball across the pitch and back, constantly afraid or unable to slice a pass into the forwards. The outcome looked inevitable within minutes, Tyrone with everyone back, then breaking up field when Monaghan give it away and nick a score.  Boring predictable shite .

Football has become a game that is very difficult to attract a neutral, I struggle to watch games that ive no dog in the fight and anyone I talk to seems to be the same. Hurling still has the appeal that you can watch a game between 2 top teams and it keeps you interested, football not so much.

I'm getting the same way too. You watch a game, and head down to throw the laundry in the dryer, and three or four minutes later you come back and maybe, just maybe, there's been a point scored. Leaving aside our current predicament, I'm even close to giving up on watching Donegal, such is the lack of enjoyment to be had from watching them. I said it in the thread for last year's Ulster Final, a game in which we were very competitive and could have won, that it would have been a hollow victory, so grim was the fare that was served up (think I said the same in the '16 final when Tyrone nicked it right at the end). We had some promising, fast moving football under Bonner in 18 and 19, but its been utterly dreadful since then and unfortunately the vast majority of the other teams are the same. Even watching Dublin go about their methodical, systematic, possession-based takedown of the opposition towards the end of the six in a row period was as dull as watching paint dry.

Apart from David Clifford and Shane Walsh and the runners of Mayo and your county loyalty, there just isn't much to attract spectators in gaelic football these days.

You'd wonder how that's different to games 20 years ago when scorelines are broadly the same?

20 years ago, those three or four minutes might have had a couple of one on one duels at either end of the field where defenders came out on top or a team hit a wide. These days it's more likely that one of the teams spent two of those minutes arsing about hand-passing across the field 60m from the goal.

There was still one point scored in the 3/4 minutes you missed though.

The game has got less exciting but still plenty of goods bit's to games too. The all round skill level of players across the team is far higher than that of 20/30 years. The game had moved on from the Jim McGuiness era in recent seasons with much more pressing of kickouts etc. But there has been a worrying trend of increased negativity in this years league - hoping the trend doesn't continue into the championship.

But it's not about the scoring alone.

And I don't know if the skill level is higher.

It's not like teams are fielding with six Peter Canavans up front or two Daragh O'Ses in midfield these days.

Fitness, athleticism, team coordination, rehearsed plays and tactical discipline are certainly on a whole other plane, but the overall game is for the most part dull and risk averse and individual flare and skill and creativity expressed far less than they used to be.

As someone said earlier, how would Canavan and Mulligan fare today? Trevor Giles or Greg Blaney?

What would Michael Murphy have done had he arrived 10 years earlier?

Just my opinion.

After watching Tyrone v Armagh yesterday it got me thinking about some of the stuff written in this thread (to be fair it was one of the best games of the league).

Starting with the above - it's strange to make out that good flair plays can't stand out in the modern day game after last year's All Ireland final. Both Clifford and Walsh gave two of best individual performances seen in a final. Maybe there hasn't been as much room in this years league but league football is always different to championship due to conditions.

Another thing said on the thread is that players can't score from far out any more. Again if you look back at last year's final or even yesterday's game's that myth will quickly be dispelled. Look at the amount of cracking scores yesterday from defenders alone - Forker/McNamee/Hampsey/O'Sullivan (Kerry match).

Scores was another big thing mentioned. I decided to look back quickly at my own counties run to the 1995 All Ireland final (a glorious era for football). Tyrone that year averaged 15 points a game and conceded 12. Most scores in both the All Ireland final and ulster semi final v Derry came from Canavan frees diving. In our All Ireland success two years ago Tyrone averaged 21 per game and conceded 16. If you look back they weren't all these mechanical scores twenty yards out but loads of scores from out on the wings including many from defenders. I'm sure Kerry's scores would show something similar last year.

I haven't enjoyed a good few league games this year and there has been too much lateral football. But the league was never some kind of glorious competition filled with high scoring games. I think people are far too harsh on modern players who are better prepared and as skilful of those in any era.

Yeah, still bitter :-)

[onefineday]

The fog of time muddies my memory.

I can't remember if a 1-6 to 0-7 game of catch and boot it as hard as you can and a rake of 1v1s across the field was better than 2-14 to 1-13 modern game with a smarter gameplan defensively.

The former probably was more exciting.

There's no doubting that at all levels individual skills are much higher, players are generally much fitter and tactically aware, but keep ball is mind numbingly boring for spectators and even though it may result in a well worked score (or the keeper coming up to knock over a 55m free) the lack of contests makes it all a bit underwhelming.
At intercountry level where the game's top talents are on display, some genuine flashes of brilliance and good high speed attacking play often breaks out sporadically, and masks what happens for 60% of the game - it also helps for us Derry wans that as soon as we embrace a modern game plan, we start becoming a force again - and there's no doubt that does sugarcoat what we're watching.  We also understand the incredible commitment that players at that level are putting into their game and that also inhibits us from criticising the product.
But as 15 men defences and their antidote, endless recycling and keep ball are becoming increasingly common at all levels of club football this is something which must be addressed.
Not only is it unattractive, but it's not something that players enjoy either. I've a number of nephews playing club football and a common complaint is the lack of enjoyment or satisfaction from playing the game. These are lads in their late teens, early 20s, there's other things they can do with their time that won't involve a manager parachuted in on a few quid per session giving them a bollocking for taking a shot from the wrong area or not assuming the correct defensive position in the blanket. They play because of family attachment to the club, pride in the community and the bond with the lads they grew up with, not because the game is fun for the most part.
They'll probably keep on playing because rurally, GAA is bigger than the games, in urban areas though, that's definitely not a given.
I understand the comments about games evolving and how if we look back at old games we see that they weren't the classics we picture them as being, but it's equally valid to point out that looking back at those games what they often packed in skills they made up for with excitement and contests which kept fans engaged, that engagement isn't a feature of many modern games where the recent upgrade of croke park wifi will help more of us while away time on our phones!
Almost all sports evolve, rules are changed to keep the game attractive, it's a constant game of cat and mouse, we should be happy to embrace change - it's a positive despite what the self interest of top level coaches tell us.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

As Peter Canavan opined a good while ago, maybe it's time to reduce to 13-a-side: with greater fitness levels, more strategic management, etc., there's only one way that can go whilst the pitch dimensions remain the same -- ball retention, at whatever cost to the sporting spectacle.

With 13-a-side, the dynamic is changed completely: does a team prioritise defence over offence, or vice versa; blanket defences will have porous holes; hand-passing ball retention is much more risky; it reduces, inescapably, to the better ball players in the on-pitch cohort, I'd reckon.

[J70]

The fog of time muddies my memory.

I can't remember if a 1-6 to 0-7 game of catch and boot it as hard as you can and a rake of 1v1s across the field was better than 2-14 to 1-13 modern game with a smarter gameplan defensively.

The former probably was more exciting.

There's no doubting that at all levels individual skills are much higher, players are generally much fitter and tactically aware, but keep ball is mind numbingly boring for spectators and even though it may result in a well worked score (or the keeper coming up to knock over a 55m free) the lack of contests makes it all a bit underwhelming.
At intercountry level where the game's top talents are on display, some genuine flashes of brilliance and good high speed attacking play often breaks out sporadically, and masks what happens for 60% of the game - it also helps for us Derry wans that as soon as we embrace a modern game plan, we start becoming a force again - and there's no doubt that does sugarcoat what we're watching.  We also understand the incredible commitment that players at that level are putting into their game and that also inhibits us from criticising the product.
But as 15 men defences and their antidote, endless recycling and keep ball are becoming increasingly common at all levels of club football this is something which must be addressed.
Not only is it unattractive, but it's not something that players enjoy either. I've a number of nephews playing club football and a common complaint is the lack of enjoyment or satisfaction from playing the game. These are lads in their late teens, early 20s, there's other things they can do with their time that won't involve a manager parachuted in on a few quid per session giving them a bollocking for taking a shot from the wrong area or not assuming the correct defensive position in the blanket. They play because of family attachment to the club, pride in the community and the bond with the lads they grew up with, not because the game is fun for the most part.
They'll probably keep on playing because rurally, GAA is bigger than the games, in urban areas though, that's definitely not a given.
I understand the comments about games evolving and how if we look back at old games we see that they weren't the classics we picture them as being, but it's equally valid to point out that looking back at those games what they often packed in skills they made up for with excitement and contests which kept fans engaged, that engagement isn't a feature of many modern games where the recent upgrade of croke park wifi will help more of us while away time on our phones!
Almost all sports evolve, rules are changed to keep the game attractive, it's a constant game of cat and mouse, we should be happy to embrace change - it's a positive despite what the self interest of top level coaches tell us.

Good post.👍

[thejuice]

Definitely think 13 a side is worth a shot.

[LeoMc]

As Peter Canavan opined a good while ago, maybe it's time to reduce to 13-a-side: with greater fitness levels, more strategic management, etc., there's only one way that can go whilst the pitch dimensions remain the same -- ball retention, at whatever cost to the sporting spectacle.

With 13-a-side, the dynamic is changed completely: does a team prioritise defence over offence, or vice versa; blanket defences will have porous holes; hand-passing ball retention is much more risky; it reduces, inescapably, to the better ball players in the on-pitch cohort, I'd reckon.

Perhaps at a higher level 13 aside would work as teams already have the conditioning. I would have concerns at lower levels where the skilled player would be squeezed out as fitter players are prioritised. Junior teams could no longer afford to carry the lazy sod with great feet or hands as their over wintering habits leave them exposed in the bigger spaces afforded by the reduction in players.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

As Peter Canavan opined a good while ago, maybe it's time to reduce to 13-a-side: with greater fitness levels, more strategic management, etc., there's only one way that can go whilst the pitch dimensions remain the same -- ball retention, at whatever cost to the sporting spectacle.

With 13-a-side, the dynamic is changed completely: does a team prioritise defence over offence, or vice versa; blanket defences will have porous holes; hand-passing ball retention is much more risky; it reduces, inescapably, to the better ball players in the on-pitch cohort, I'd reckon.

Perhaps at a higher level 13 aside would work as teams already have the conditioning. I would have concerns at lower levels where the skilled player would be squeezed out as fitter players are prioritised. Junior teams could no longer afford to carry the lazy sod with great feet or hands as their over wintering habits leave them exposed in the bigger spaces afforded by the reduction in players.

Sure thing, it wouldn't be universally beneficial perhaps, but surely it needs serious consideration and exploration, if only at the Senior County level, on a trial basis?