Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

Started by BennyCake, September 09, 2014, 12:47:26 PM

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Milltown Row2

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 02, 2020, 09:24:42 PM
Is the original mark still the same? Or do you have to claim it too?

Yes, blow for all marks, if player raises hand he's 15 seconds to shoot, or has four seconds to play without being tackled
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Rudi

Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
I know it was bloody Colm Reilly but...
Conor Daly made a defensive mark late on, a schemozzle developed, Fermanagh no.24 got a yellow card and then he hopped the ball.
??????

It frustrated me at the time too. However the same thing happened V Tyrone last year. We were awarded a free in after Morgan assaulted one of our players, Harney then was the second man in, free overturned to a hop ball, we end up Div 2.
In conclusion we didn't learn anything from last year, O Reilly made the correct call in accordance with the rule book.

FermGael

Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
I know it was bloody Colm Reilly but...
Conor Daly made a defensive mark late on, a schemozzle developed, Fermanagh no.24 got a yellow card and then he hopped the ball.
??????

He wasn't awarded the mark. That's where the confusion happened. Reilly did not give it and that's when the Fermanagh player kicked it. That's when the handbags started.
I couldn't tell if it was or wasn't a mark as the ball was so close to the ground when he caught it.
Wanted.  Forwards to take frees.
Not fussy.  Any sort of ability will be considered

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

johnnycool

Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2020, 01:03:42 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/plans-afoot-to-curb-backchat-to-referees-979606.html

Should be some fun with the sin bin in Hurley stuff😁

john Kiely has already spoken about it, so wait for Eddie Keher to row in that's it would take away the manliness of hurling or some other dirge.

I think there's weight in allowing only two players from each team to speak to the referee and making adult games 35 minutes although I'd allow County Boards to apply bi-laws to allow them to reduce Junior/Junior B or whatever to 30 minutes to prevent auld lads still treading the boards from having a heart attack...


twohands!!!

Quote from: johnnycool on February 04, 2020, 02:26:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2020, 01:03:42 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/plans-afoot-to-curb-backchat-to-referees-979606.html

Should be some fun with the sin bin in Hurley stuff😁

john Kiely has already spoken about it, so wait for Eddie Keher to row in that's it would take away the manliness of hurling or some other dirge.

I think there's weight in allowing only two players from each team to speak to the referee and making adult games 35 minutes although I'd allow County Boards to apply bi-laws to allow them to reduce Junior/Junior B or whatever to 30 minutes to prevent auld lads still treading the boards from having a heart attack...

Definitely I think the adult games could be increased to 35 minutes especially at the top level of club action.
Agree about allowing county boards to have it in the by-laws to keep Junior B at 30 minutes if so desired.

For the black card in hurling they should put forward a video of all the times in last year's championship where backs fouled to prevent goal-scoring chances.
They should also look at the stats in terms of how many goals were scored where the defender was already on a yellow. From what I remember there seemed to be a fair few cases in the hurling championship last year where goals were scored off backs already on a yellow. Hand to advantage to the attacking player, not the player who can kill a goal chance just by pulling a player down and taking a yellow.

themac_23

The mark has to go, completely killing the flow of the game, take it there can't be a change for at least another year

Main Street

Kelly the ref at Tyrone v Kerry gave the free as soon as the hand touched the shoulder of the player in possesion.
Some players (mainly those in muddy white shirts) out of habit were throwing themselves to the ground at the merest touch in order to get the free but they needn't have bothered, the ref did not need to be conned in order to call the free.

Personally I thought this worked well, just have a zero tolerance for the high hand and players in possesion will not have to con the ref, endagering themselves in the process in order to win the free.

Hound

Interesting debate on the Wooly podcast re time added on, with particular reference to the Dublin v Monaghan match.

The 6 minutes wasn't discussed, but the 3.30 added on after the 6 was the key issue.

I checked the recording on Sunday morning, and thought based on my understanding of the rules that the ref got it spot on.

There was a 2 minute stoppage after a Dublin score when the ref went down the other end of the pitch to book 3 players.
There was a 1.30 stoppage after an injury around the middle of the field (the one the ref should have let McManus have an advantage for, but he'd already blown too early)

I can't remember exactly, but there was at least 2, if not 3 substitutions that happened during those two stoppages which played a part in extending them. But overall 3.30 was spot on. 

Conan on the show said he counted more than 4 minutes of stoppage time, so that should have allowed Monaghan have one last attack. He added on the time Beggan took to come up and take frees during injury time.

Pat McEnenany was on to explain the actual rules:

As I thought, you don't add on time for a freetaker taking a free. That's normal playing time. If the ref judges that the player takes too long, then it's a throw ball.
But I thought that if there was a throw ball for timewasting, then the ref would add on the time wasted as extra time. But that's wrong. The only punishment is throw ball, no additional time is added (which isn't logical!)

What surprised me more is McEnenany disagreed with adding time for the bookings. That's normal playing time he said.
(Although it did remind me of a ladies semi final between Dublin and Cork about 6 or 7 years ago. Dublin 1 point behind, 45 seconds left on the clock, a Dublin girl charging forward around midfield and taken out of it. The refs blows for the free. Calls the Cork girl offer to give her a talking to and a card, which takes about 40 seconds. Clock doesn't stop and hooter blows just as Dubs take the free so the Cork booking cost them the (slim) chance they had of equalising).

Anyway, Pat's take on it was that the ref should have just added between 2.00 and 2.30 for the 3 substitutions and the 1 injury stoppage. Personally I think it's a nonsense not to stop the clock for time taken to book a player, as it would otherwise encourage players not carded to get a card in injury time as a way of defending a lead and run down the clock!

Conan had a good idea that the "Stopwatch Clock" should be brought in but only used for added time. And that it stops for every stoppage in injury time so everyone knows where they are and full value is got for the stoppage time.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Hound on February 12, 2020, 09:58:43 AM
Interesting debate on the Wooly podcast re time added on, with particular reference to the Dublin v Monaghan match.

The 6 minutes wasn't discussed, but the 3.30 added on after the 6 was the key issue.

I checked the recording on Sunday morning, and thought based on my understanding of the rules that the ref got it spot on.

There was a 2 minute stoppage after a Dublin score when the ref went down the other end of the pitch to book 3 players.
There was a 1.30 stoppage after an injury around the middle of the field (the one the ref should have let McManus have an advantage for, but he'd already blown too early)

I can't remember exactly, but there was at least 2, if not 3 substitutions that happened during those two stoppages which played a part in extending them. But overall 3.30 was spot on. 

Conan on the show said he counted more than 4 minutes of stoppage time, so that should have allowed Monaghan have one last attack. He added on the time Beggan took to come up and take frees during injury time.

Pat McEnenany was on to explain the actual rules:

As I thought, you don't add on time for a freetaker taking a free. That's normal playing time. If the ref judges that the player takes too long, then it's a throw ball.
But I thought that if there was a throw ball for timewasting, then the ref would add on the time wasted as extra time. But that's wrong. The only punishment is throw ball, no additional time is added (which isn't logical!)

What surprised me more is McEnenany disagreed with adding time for the bookings. That's normal playing time he said.
(Although it did remind me of a ladies semi final between Dublin and Cork about 6 or 7 years ago. Dublin 1 point behind, 45 seconds left on the clock, a Dublin girl charging forward around midfield and taken out of it. The refs blows for the free. Calls the Cork girl offer to give her a talking to and a card, which takes about 40 seconds. Clock doesn't stop and hooter blows just as Dubs take the free so the Cork booking cost them the (slim) chance they had of equalising).

Anyway, Pat's take on it was that the ref should have just added between 2.00 and 2.30 for the 3 substitutions and the 1 injury stoppage. Personally I think it's a nonsense not to stop the clock for time taken to book a player, as it would otherwise encourage players not carded to get a card in injury time as a way of defending a lead and run down the clock!

Conan had a good idea that the "Stopwatch Clock" should be brought in but only used for added time. And that it stops for every stoppage in injury time so everyone knows where they are and full value is got for the stoppage time.

I got a bit of abuse (nothing new I suppose) when doing an important championship game, the game was in extra time, 1 minute of extra time in the first ten minute period ad I added over 6/7 minutes for the second period due to 2 injuries and time wasting by the keeper (which reading above I should have hopped the ball), the injuries I stopped the clock and the subs I added the 30 seconds for each.. As you can imagine the winning team will try and play down the clock which is fair enough..

But I was showing my watch the whole time to the players, the supporters on the other hand are watching a clock with the score board wondering WTF! I'd be happy enough for a hotter to do the timing. completely out of my hands then, and would reduce the complaining that goes on during the game, but how do we ensure no one abuses that?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Main Street

Quote from: Hound on February 12, 2020, 09:58:43 AM
Interesting debate on the Wooly podcast re time added on, with particular reference to the Dublin v Monaghan match.

The 6 minutes wasn't discussed, but the 3.30 added on after the 6 was the key issue.

I checked the recording on Sunday morning, and thought based on my understanding of the rules that the ref got it spot on.

There was a 2 minute stoppage after a Dublin score when the ref went down the other end of the pitch to book 3 players.
There was a 1.30 stoppage after an injury around the middle of the field (the one the ref should have let McManus have an advantage for, but he'd already blown too early)

I can't remember exactly, but there was at least 2, if not 3 substitutions that happened during those two stoppages which played a part in extending them. But overall 3.30 was spot on. 

Conan on the show said he counted more than 4 minutes of stoppage time, so that should have allowed Monaghan have one last attack. He added on the time Beggan took to come up and take frees during injury time.

Pat McEnenany was on to explain the actual rules:

As I thought, you don't add on time for a freetaker taking a free. That's normal playing time. If the ref judges that the player takes too long, then it's a throw ball.
But I thought that if there was a throw ball for timewasting, then the ref would add on the time wasted as extra time. But that's wrong. The only punishment is throw ball, no additional time is added (which isn't logical!)

What surprised me more is McEnenany disagreed with adding time for the bookings. That's normal playing time he said.
(Although it did remind me of a ladies semi final between Dublin and Cork about 6 or 7 years ago. Dublin 1 point behind, 45 seconds left on the clock, a Dublin girl charging forward around midfield and taken out of it. The refs blows for the free. Calls the Cork girl offer to give her a talking to and a card, which takes about 40 seconds. Clock doesn't stop and hooter blows just as Dubs take the free so the Cork booking cost them the (slim) chance they had of equalising).

Anyway, Pat's take on it was that the ref should have just added between 2.00 and 2.30 for the 3 substitutions and the 1 injury stoppage. Personally I think it's a nonsense not to stop the clock for time taken to book a player, as it would otherwise encourage players not carded to get a card in injury time as a way of defending a lead and run down the clock!

Conan had a good idea that the "Stopwatch Clock" should be brought in but only used for added time. And that it stops for every stoppage in injury time so everyone knows where they are and full value is got for the stoppage time.
As the rules stand now McEnaney is spot on, he is the knowledgeable one.
The biggest blooper that the ref made in added time was to blow the whistle immediately when McAnespie was fouled.
And I'd say everyone and their dog thought the ref would blow up just before the last play.

Agreed on the issue with refs taking up valuable game time with useless lengthy pedantic disciplinary discussions with a crafty culprit,  especially with a game still to be won in added time.




Milltown Row2

To settle the lengthy time of discipline on the 'fouler' is by brandish the card, take his number and blow whistle to play on.

This, bringing the player towards you talking and brandishing the card is not needed. The ref has the team sheet with names and numbers already.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Ball Hopper

When the clock hits 70 minutes there will be no more substitutes allowed and no cards will be issued.

Clock or Play will not stop for injuries either...treat them on the field.

Frees must be taken within 30 seconds, otherwise hop the ball.

Game will end when the ball goes out of play after the time expires (like rugby).

For any boxing, grappling or whatever, ref just points them to the line...just like the old days...no need to take names or anything...off you go and play resumes quickly.

Time to put the word "sport" back into our game.


BennyCake

BH, what about when Dublin forwards held the six Mayo defenders last kickout  in the AI final 2 years ago? Does the ref send 12 men off? And how could he even see them all at same time?

People moaned about Tyrone player grappling at Clifford and him unfairly getting the line. You can't have six players unfairly getting the line too.

I do agree though, come the 70 minutes, no subs allowed.

Ball Hopper

Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2020, 11:16:36 PM
BH, what about when Dublin forwards held the six Mayo defenders last kickout  in the AI final 2 years ago? Does the ref send 12 men off? And how could he even see them all at same time?

People moaned about Tyrone player grappling at Clifford and him unfairly getting the line. You can't have six players unfairly getting the line too.

I do agree though, come the 70 minutes, no subs allowed.

Send them all off...won't happen again if it causes the losing of the game.  Ref plus 2 linesmen plus 4 umpires should see most of it.

It will be in place well before an All-Ireland final anyway...the first or second league game could see a flood of dismissals after the 70 mins are up. 

Teams will adapt to the rules (or take advantage of them not being applied evenly)...up to the refs to be properly trained, assessed and bad decisions eliminated from their performance as the year goes on.