Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)

[nrico2006]

It happened many many years ago. I haven't heard of it happening since, there are a few possible reasons for that. 1. The rise to prominence of the National League replacing the Lisburn league as the top league in the country lead to more Irish Premiership sides having youth academies meaning in turn less star players at smaller clubs like mine. 2. I moved up with the team I was coaching meaning the FAI would have been aware of the talent of my players. 3. The IFA and FAI reached a gentlemans agreement that the FAI wouldn't accept under age players anymore, also wouldn't approach overage players and would immediately inform the IFA if any approached them.

I think it's a disgrace that the FAI came to such an agreement particularly given the IFA taken players to court. The FAI gains nothing from it and it's arguably in breach of EU law.

Also I don't see why there's a distinction between them approaching unionist or nationalists players. Anyone born on the island is entitled to play for the FAI, I think the FAI should be offering all of them an equal opportunity to do so.

I don't think we are going to agree on this.  There are still 2 footballing jurisdictions on the island, and as a fan of NI, I want the team to be as strong as possible.  Obviously this is unlikely to be the case if the FAI are approacing players who the IFA have spent time and money on developing.  As I said in another post, if you know you don't want to play for the NI seniot team then don't represent the underage teams.  I think this was the case with Marc Wilson, so fair play to him.

Well put. 

[David McKeown]

It happened many many years ago. I haven't heard of it happening since, there are a few possible reasons for that. 1. The rise to prominence of the National League replacing the Lisburn league as the top league in the country lead to more Irish Premiership sides having youth academies meaning in turn less star players at smaller clubs like mine. 2. I moved up with the team I was coaching meaning the FAI would have been aware of the talent of my players. 3. The IFA and FAI reached a gentlemans agreement that the FAI wouldn't accept under age players anymore, also wouldn't approach overage players and would immediately inform the IFA if any approached them.

I think it's a disgrace that the FAI came to such an agreement particularly given the IFA taken players to court. The FAI gains nothing from it and it's arguably in breach of EU law.

Also I don't see why there's a distinction between them approaching unionist or nationalists players. Anyone born on the island is entitled to play for the FAI, I think the FAI should be offering all of them an equal opportunity to do so.

I don't think we are going to agree on this.  There are still 2 footballing jurisdictions on the island, and as a fan of NI, I want the team to be as strong as possible.  Obviously this is unlikely to be the case if the FAI are approacing players who the IFA have spent time and money on developing.  As I said in another post, if you know you don't want to play for the NI seniot team then don't represent the underage teams.  I think this was the case with Marc Wilson, so fair play to him.

I have no problem with that stand point but you can't have it both ways. Which the IFA currently do. On the one hand they have a gentlemans agreement that the FAI won't pick underage players they are perfectly entitled to under both international law and FIFA statutes leaving kids up here with two choices. A don't play for any representative team meaning you lessen your chances of development and career progression or B do play for them but then don't switch at the stage our arbitrary agreement with the FAI runs out because we have put time and money into developing you. 

[BennyCake]

I can understand the IFA's thinking... Young lad brought up and coached by NI to opt for the Republic. All that time and money etc etc. Ok, so they might lose a half dozen players like that, who end up playing for the senior Republic team. But what about all those lads who were coached by NI at youth level, and just never made it in the professional game, drifted away from the game, got a bad injury etc. I'd say the amount of players lost by NI to ROI is minuscule when compared with that. But you don't hear the IFA go on about that.

Not every player coached at youth levels will end up a pro footballer or play for NI. Just like every lad who played underage gaa for their club will ever go on to represent their club at senior level.

[Therealdonald]

The single statement that is fact in this is that the IFA are a sectarian organisation. How any Catholic can go watch N.I play in Windsor Park after the way they treated Neil Lennon is just beyond me. Uncle Tom's the lot of them.

On another note, if the IFA can't work out for themselves who is going to play for the FAI when they reach adulthood then maybe a more thorough background check would be sufficient.

As it is long may it continue, previous 2 cup finals with Cliftonville had no Butchers Apron anthem, so why antagonise them and their supporters with it this time???

[Applesisapples]

I have no difficulty with playing the anthem the association identifies as its national anthem. The same is played before the FA Cup final. It's not an anthem being played for either team in the match.

makes a mockery off football for all, IFA are a sectarian organisation.

It is sectarian in the same way that the GAA is a sectarian organisation.

IFA is allowed to be a sectarian organisation by those who are involved with the IfA as players, coaches, administrators and supporters.  If non-unionist, non-British citizens of N.Ireland who are connected with the IFA as outlined above engaged in the organisation, got onto committees, voted at meetings and AGMs to ensure that they were proportionally represented within the IFA then the organisation would be radically changed.  Instead, it is easier to stay outside, allow those of an opposite political and national position to run the organisation and just become victims.

Owen can you give an example of the GAA taking players to court in an attempt to stop them playing for their country then falsely claiming that another organisation is targeting these players on religious grounds?  If you can then I'll believe the IFA and the GAA are equivalent in their secterianism. That's setting aside the fact the GAA is more than merely a sporting organisation and has never claimed otherwise.

I think that it is fairly cettain that the FAI have targeted players on religious grounds.  Didn't Michael recount the sory of how Paddy McNair was approached on the mistaken belief that he was  a catholic given his name?

Given that I was coaching McNairs club at that stage I can assure you that whilst he was approached a few others in the team were too. It wasn't based on their religion. The FAI also approached a couple of my players a few years later and both were from Rathcoole. They don't approach anyone any more that I am aware of because of a gentlemans agreement with the IFA that benefits no one but the IFA and still isn't enough for the IFA.

I'm be very surprised if approaches are no longer being made.  Also, this was also something that the FAI have denied over the years.  They always said that it was the players who made the initial contact etc.  Trying to poach players developed by the IFA, particularly those from a unionist background which you say also took place, does not paint them in a very good light in my opinion.

No different to the IFA approaching English born players. Players should be free to play for the team to which they have an allegience.

[michaelg]

The single statement that is fact in this is that the IFA are a sectarian organisation. How any Catholic can go watch N.I play in Windsor Park after the way they treated Neil Lennon is just beyond me. Uncle Tom's the lot of them.

On another note, if the IFA can't work out for themselves who is going to play for the FAI when they reach adulthood then maybe a more thorough background check would be sufficient.

As it is long may it continue, previous 2 cup finals with Cliftonville had no Butchers Apron anthem, so why antagonise them and their supporters with it this time???

So, are you suggesting that the IFA only select players from one side of the community?

[michaelg]

I can understand the IFA's thinking... Young lad brought up and coached by NI to opt for the Republic. All that time and money etc etc. Ok, so they might lose a half dozen players like that, who end up playing for the senior Republic team. But what about all those lads who were coached by NI at youth level, and just never made it in the professional game, drifted away from the game, got a bad injury etc. I'd say the amount of players lost by NI to ROI is minuscule when compared with that. But you don't hear the IFA go on about that.

Not every player coached at youth levels will end up a pro footballer or play for NI. Just like every lad who played underage gaa for their club will ever go on to represent their club at senior level.

Why would they?  Your point is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand.

[Therealdonald]

The single statement that is fact in this is that the IFA are a sectarian organisation. How any Catholic can go watch N.I play in Windsor Park after the way they treated Neil Lennon is just beyond me. Uncle Tom's the lot of them.

On another note, if the IFA can't work out for themselves who is going to play for the FAI when they reach adulthood then maybe a more thorough background check would be sufficient.

As it is long may it continue, previous 2 cup finals with Cliftonville had no Butchers Apron anthem, so why antagonise them and their supporters with it this time???

So, are you suggesting that the IFA only select players from one side of the community?

I'm suggesting that those who leave the north after representing the team all through the ranks to join the Republic are 99% Catholic, so if you dont want to waste resources then do background checks. Simples.

[BennyCake]

I can understand the IFA's thinking... Young lad brought up and coached by NI to opt for the Republic. All that time and money etc etc. Ok, so they might lose a half dozen players like that, who end up playing for the senior Republic team. But what about all those lads who were coached by NI at youth level, and just never made it in the professional game, drifted away from the game, got a bad injury etc. I'd say the amount of players lost by NI to ROI is minuscule when compared with that. But you don't hear the IFA go on about that.

Not every player coached at youth levels will end up a pro footballer or play for NI. Just like every lad who played underage gaa for their club will ever go on to represent their club at senior level.

Why would they?  Your point is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand.

It was relevant to the point I was making, and the overall picture.

[David McKeown]

The single statement that is fact in this is that the IFA are a sectarian organisation. How any Catholic can go watch N.I play in Windsor Park after the way they treated Neil Lennon is just beyond me. Uncle Tom's the lot of them.

On another note, if the IFA can't work out for themselves who is going to play for the FAI when they reach adulthood then maybe a more thorough background check would be sufficient.

As it is long may it continue, previous 2 cup finals with Cliftonville had no Butchers Apron anthem, so why antagonise them and their supporters with it this time???

So, are you suggesting that the IFA only select players from one side of the community?

I'm suggesting that those who leave the north after representing the team all through the ranks to join the Republic are 99% Catholic, so if you dont want to waste resources then do background checks. Simples.

Assuming that stat is correct it doesn't follow that 99% of catholic players leave either so I doubt background checks would be particularly useful

[6th sam]

We seem to be going round in circles .
Michaelg , 3 questions for you.
1.Do you accept the right of any professional footballer to play for The country of their choice ( that they are eligible to play for under FIFA rules & an international agreement between sovereign states) as an adult , regardless of who they played for as a young developing player?

2. Do you respect that a large percentage of NI population including professional footballers have no affinity for the NI state and NI team?

3. Do you respect that despite significant efforts by the IFA there remain several examples of how the NI soccer team remains aligned to the British as opposed to Irish identity in NI ?

[michaelg]

We seem to be going round in circles .
Michaelg , 3 questions for you.
1.Do you accept the right of any professional footballer to play for The country of their choice ( that they are eligible to play for under FIFA rules & an international agreement between sovereign states) as an adult , regardless of who they played for as a young developing player?

2. Do you respect that a large percentage of NI population including professional footballers have no affinity for the NI state and NI team?

3. Do you respect that despite significant efforts by the IFA there remain several examples of how the NI soccer team remains aligned to the British as opposed to Irish identity in NI ?

With respect Question 1, the situation is not going to change, so fair enough if a young player from NI wants to play for the ROI.  The issue, as I have stated above, is with those players taking up places on NI underage teams when they no intention  of playing for the senior team.
As for Question 2, of course I realise that a large % of the  NI population has no affinity for the NI state / team.
With respect Question 3, I firmly believe that the NI team should have it's own anthem in the same way that Scotland and  Wales do.  This, however, would likely have little or no effect given some folk's political views / lack of affinity to NI as a political entity (See Question 2!). The anthem thing is just another example of something that's used to criticise the NI football team.  If they did change it, the folk on here who are opposed to the NI team, would just find something else to complain about and criticise, and catholics who supported  the team would  still be Uncle Toms etc etc. 

[David McKeown]

We seem to be going round in circles .
Michaelg , 3 questions for you.
1.Do you accept the right of any professional footballer to play for The country of their choice ( that they are eligible to play for under FIFA rules & an international agreement between sovereign states) as an adult , regardless of who they played for as a young developing player?

2. Do you respect that a large percentage of NI population including professional footballers have no affinity for the NI state and NI team?

3. Do you respect that despite significant efforts by the IFA there remain several examples of how the NI soccer team remains aligned to the British as opposed to Irish identity in NI ?

With respect Question 1, the situation is not going to change, so fair enough if a young player from NI wants to play for the ROI.  The issue, as I have stated above, is with those players taking up places on NI underage teams when they no intention  of playing for the senior team.
As for Question 2, of course I realise that a large % of the  NI population has no affinity for the NI state / team.
With respect Question 3, I firmly believe that the NI team should have it's own anthem in the same way that Scotland and  Wales do.  This, however, would likely have little or no effect given some folk's political views / lack of affinity to NI as a political entity (See Question 2!). The anthem thing is just another example of something that's used to criticise the NI football team.  If they did change it, the folk on here who are opposed to the NI team, would just find something else to complain about and criticise, and catholics who supported  the team would  still be Uncle Toms etc etc.

With respect to 1. Where do you stand on the gentlemans agreement between the IFA and the FAI that underage players from the North won't be selected for underage teams for the Republic?

In respect of 3 I entirely agree my view won't change on the IFA until they acknowledge the offence their position of taking players to court to try and prevent them playing for their country has caused and the continued difficulty their law breaking stance on the issue causes. The anthem is immaterial for me particularly when compared to that

[6th sam]

We seem to be going round in circles .
Michaelg , 3 questions for you.
1.Do you accept the right of any professional footballer to play for The country of their choice ( that they are eligible to play for under FIFA rules & an international agreement between sovereign states) as an adult , regardless of who they played for as a young developing player?

2. Do you respect that a large percentage of NI population including professional footballers have no affinity for the NI state and NI team?

3. Do you respect that despite significant efforts by the IFA there remain several examples of how the NI soccer team remains aligned to the British as opposed to Irish identity in NI ?

With respect Question 1, the situation is not going to change, so fair enough if a young player from NI wants to play for the ROI.  The issue, as I have stated above, is with those players taking up places on NI underage teams when they no intention  of playing for the senior team.
As for Question 2, of course I realise that a large % of the  NI population has no affinity for the NI state / team.
With respect Question 3, I firmly believe that the NI team should have it's own anthem in the same way that Scotland and  Wales do.  This, however, would likely have little or no effect given some folk's political views / lack of affinity to NI as a political entity (See Question 2!). The anthem thing is just another example of something that's used to criticise the NI football team.  If they did change it, the folk on here who are opposed to the NI team, would just find something else to complain about and criticise, and catholics who supported  the team would  still be Uncle Toms etc etc.

Many thanks for your fair response michaelg, and to build on that :
1. It is not appropriate to ask a child/youth can they  guarantee a lifelong commitment to NI or any other country . So NI soccer should park their complaints on that one , unless there is an appropriate solution .
2. If you realise it, I would respectfully suggest that you respect that, in the same way as you quite rightly demand that the British identity is respected on this Island.
3. You're absolutely correct. I would appreciate IFA changing the anthem , flags, emblems etc, and a fulsome apology for the appalling treatment of Neil
Lennon and others , but in truth it wouldn't make a button of difference, as Myself and I suspect most other current ROI supporters will always have our affinity to ROI.

In short , I totally respect your right to support NI and understand the passion for a team that has been consistently performing well with limited resources. I understand that you're frustrated that those resources are further depleted by the talent drain to ROI. I merely ask that yourself and NI soccer authorities and supporters, respect the Irish identity in NI , and players right to choose. Is that too much to ask?

[michaelg]

We seem to be going round in circles .
Michaelg , 3 questions for you.
1.Do you accept the right of any professional footballer to play for The country of their choice ( that they are eligible to play for under FIFA rules & an international agreement between sovereign states) as an adult , regardless of who they played for as a young developing player?

2. Do you respect that a large percentage of NI population including professional footballers have no affinity for the NI state and NI team?

3. Do you respect that despite significant efforts by the IFA there remain several examples of how the NI soccer team remains aligned to the British as opposed to Irish identity in NI ?

With respect Question 1, the situation is not going to change, so fair enough if a young player from NI wants to play for the ROI.  The issue, as I have stated above, is with those players taking up places on NI underage teams when they no intention  of playing for the senior team.
As for Question 2, of course I realise that a large % of the  NI population has no affinity for the NI state / team.
With respect Question 3, I firmly believe that the NI team should have it's own anthem in the same way that Scotland and  Wales do.  This, however, would likely have little or no effect given some folk's political views / lack of affinity to NI as a political entity (See Question 2!). The anthem thing is just another example of something that's used to criticise the NI football team.  If they did change it, the folk on here who are opposed to the NI team, would just find something else to complain about and criticise, and catholics who supported  the team would  still be Uncle Toms etc etc.

With respect to 1. Where do you stand on the gentlemans agreement between the IFA and the FAI that underage players from the North won't be selected for underage teams for the Republic?

In respect of 3 I entirely agree my view won't change on the IFA until they acknowledge the offence their position of taking players to court to try and prevent them playing for their country has caused and the continued difficulty their law breaking stance on the issue causes. The anthem is immaterial for me particularly when compared to that

Just to clarify, by underage players do you mean the schoolboy teams?
As for your second point, and I am not trying to annoy you here, but can you not see why they chose that course of action? Also, what do you mean by 'the continued difficulty their law breaking stance on the issue causes'?