Antrim Football Thread

[imtommygunn]

Shit culchy what's going to happen there?

That could be trouble for Rasharkin now. That or a benefit with score difference...

[Spirit of 94]

Spirit your are not the brightest. Big Adrian is the factor. he was responsible for developing  these players. Ask any of the aformentioned and they will tell you. All the articles and conversations wiith any of the players i mentioned all credit Mc Guckians contribution significantly.

It had nothing then to do with the fact that the vast majority of those above were playing for what were the top club teams in Derry at the time?

All the derry players today and before the 90's came from the big club also, so why have we not at least got to another All ireland final?

Our colleges are not producing winning teams like Big Adrains teams of the 80/90s. The two are linked

Nothing then to do with Eamon Coleman, Laveys AI win in 1991, Derry minors in 1989, Tohills physical development in Australia, Down in 1991, Donegal in 1992, Sigerson 87,89,90,91,93...................or are you crediting Big Adrian with all of this.   Ask any of the aformentioned and, depending on who it is, they'll refer to one or more of these as well.

Sure Adrian was a factor in the 1993 success, but to say he was the factor, well Max, that's just silly.

[culchy1]

not sure tommy whats going on, might be played at weekend, not sure, havent heard!


you might not be far wrong though!!!
a good conspiracy theory!!

max, you should worry about beating the loup or kilrea!?

[Maximus Marillius]

Spirit I'm not disputing anything you said. To help you, in the context of this thread. The discussion was about the realtionship between Mac Rory football and county success, that is the context of Mc Guckian to Derrys success on this discussion. Now FFs keep up with the converstaion. If you get lost in the future, PM me and i will help you out to save yor the embarressment.

[nrico2006]

Its a depressing old day in work but Maximus you gave me my first laugh of the day there!

[wherefromreferee?]

Is this the busiest the Antrim Football Thread has been?  

Surely them hoors from the Derry thread could start their own MacRory debate in a new thread  

MM, nice retort 

[Spirit of 94]

Spirit I'm not disputing anything you said. To help you, in the context of this thread. The discussion was about the realtionship between Mac Rory football and county success, that is the context of Mc Guckian to Derrys success on this discussion. Now FFs keep up with the converstaion. If you get lost in the future, PM me and i will help you out to save yor the embarressment.

Yes Max, and you have stated your opinion that McGuckian was the factor, but go on to agree with my list of contibuting factors. You know Max, that poster who said you couldn't even spell football was right on the nail.

[Maximus Marillius]

Is this the busiest the Antrim Football Thread has been?  

Surely them hoors from the Derry thread could start their own MacRory debate in a new thread  

MM, nice retort 

Thanks he's that slow....he hasn't got it yet.

[ExiledGael]

Don't have the numbers to back it up but I would suggest it is a higher number than when Fermanagh were even worse. The school under Corrigan and Peter McGinnity in the 90s made huge strides at schools football and openly targeted top players from other schools for entry at sixth year like Owens and McGrath did. I know what you're saying about third level too but I think that work at MacRory level was crucially important for the future and success of Fermanagh football.
Dom's antic weren't all bad.
Would be interesting to speak to as many players as possible on this, but any time I have they speak very highly of the MacRory competition and the influence it had on them.

You are proving my point again. Was the poaching of players like Owens and McGrath designed to enhance their inter-county careers or the profiles of the school and managers involved? Few, if any, MacRory managers are primarily concerned about the long term development of their charges.

Well by design or otherwise it did enhance their inter-county careers. It's not the design on debate. The simple fact is playing at MacRory level set these boys up for a future of competing at the highest levels. Dom & Co may have had more short term selfish goals at heart but Fermanagh football has benefitted in the long term, especially in the case of McGrath who would have been playing division two and three football in Fermanagh with Ederney for the last ten years.

[saffron sam2]

Don't have the numbers to back it up but I would suggest it is a higher number than when Fermanagh were even worse. The school under Corrigan and Peter McGinnity in the 90s made huge strides at schools football and openly targeted top players from other schools for entry at sixth year like Owens and McGrath did. I know what you're saying about third level too but I think that work at MacRory level was crucially important for the future and success of Fermanagh football.
Dom's antic weren't all bad.
Would be interesting to speak to as many players as possible on this, but any time I have they speak very highly of the MacRory competition and the influence it had on them.

You are proving my point again. Was the poaching of players like Owens and McGrath designed to enhance their inter-county careers or the profiles of the school and managers involved? Few, if any, MacRory managers are primarily concerned about the long term development of their charges.

Well by design or otherwise it did enhance their inter-county careers. It's not the design on debate. The simple fact is playing at MacRory level set these boys up for a future of competing at the highest levels. Dom & Co may have had more short term selfish goals at heart but Fermanagh football has benefitted in the long term, especially in the case of McGrath who would have been playing division two and three football in Fermanagh with Ederney for the last ten years.

So McGrath's time under Dodgy Dom was more important than his Sigerson career, which lasted longer and involved playing with and against better players than his MacRory career?

[toiletroller]

whats so dodgy about this Dom man from Enniskillen?!

[saffron sam2]

jez nrico you didn't take SS2s post seriously. What would an Antrim man know about what it takes to produce teams at county level.  Only on the wind up SS2.
Only for Maghera and Mac Rory cup football 93 would never have happened. Maybe i should be more precise and say only for a certain Adrain Mc Guckian. In other words lads, the key is highly skilled coaches and thats where Antrim have been struggling at secondary level. Also explaining why Maghera have not been as good as they were.

For one who has stated that when he has something serious to say, he will say it by PM, to accuse other posters of being WUMs is a bit rich. I can only assume then that your glowing references for Master McGuckin are not to be taken seriously?

Anyhow, on the off-chance that you were being serious I had prepared a detailed response to your core point, namely that "Only for Maghera and Mac Rory cup football 93 would never have happened. Maybe i should be more precise and say only for a certain Adrain Mc Guckian (sic).". However other posters (from your own county and I would suggest in one case from the school McGuckian (sic) taught in) have come in and comprehensively debunked the central plank of your argument. There are myriad factors to explain Derry's win in 93, McGuckin may or may not have been one. In additon to those outlined by Lynchbhoy and Spirit, I would add the the decline of traditional powers like Kerry and Meath, the rain in Clones, Donegal going on the drink for a year, Tommy Sugrue's refereeing against Dublin, Tony Davis's sending off and Larry Tompkins's dodgy knees. There are probably others that haven't been mentioned yet.

To highlight another analogy, McGeeney, McConville, the McEntees, O'Rourkes and McNultys all went up through the Abbey. Surely, you will agree then that only for Abbey and Mac Rory cup football 02 would never have happened. Maybe I should be more precise and say only for a certain Val Kane. This counter-example shows the absurdity of your position.

You refer to highly-skilled coaches. Here are a couple of examples of highly-skilled coaching.

From one of his proteges, recently appointed Antrim senior manager, Liam "The Baker" Bradley.

McGuckin  ... went on to make it clear Maghera's plain and simple game plan was to "get the ball into the square". Chaos ensued as the 'Hail Marys' turned possession and pressure into profit.

Adrian installed a will to win with us that was unbelievable. I remember playing St Pat's, Cavan in a quarter-final of the MacRory and myself and Seamus Doyle, who used to manage Enniskillen Gaels, were assigned to nudge the Cavan boys even before the game, as they were coming off the bus, just to agitate a bit.

1976 MacRory final report from the Irish News

A foul-ridden, bad tempered MacRory Cup final ... a game that did little for the image of colleges' football ... there was little football of note and whatever there was came from St. Colman's ... there was a tendency to play the man rather than the ball ... several players were lucky not to receive their marching orders

1996 MacRory final report from the Irish News

Disgraceful scenes spoil .. big day out.

The unseemly and disgraceful melee ... was as disappointing as it was predictable.

the quite laudable notion of will-to-win was subsumed by a win-at-all costs attitude.

Oh, and irrelevantly, but for the record, 1986 MacRory final.

St. Mary's CBS 1-8 St. Patrick's Maghera 0-6

Let's even look at Derry's record prior to and after 1976, when McGuckin's MacRory teams were unleashed on an unsuspecting public.

All-Ireland Senior titles - Pre-1976 0, Post-1976 1.
All-Ireland Runners-Up - Pre-1976 1, Post-1976 0.
(spot the massive difference)

Ulster Senior titles - Pre-1976 3, Post-1976 3. (1976's win can't be used for statistical purposes)
(again spot the massive difference)

All-Ireland under-21 Titles - Pre-1976 1, Post-1976 1.
(are you beginning to spot the pattern?)

All-Ireland Minor Titles – Pre-1976 1, Post-1976 3.
(a slight improvement, but I will outline other reasons for this improvement if you need me to.)

NFL Titles – Pre-1976 – 1, post 1976 5
(an obvious white crow in my argument, but most of these wins were at a time when real championship teams didn't take the league seriously).

By blinding stating your opinion as fact, you have shown to all and sundry once again, exactly how much you know about football.

But like I said, keep living in that "We are one of the superpowers of the GAA" bubble that you inhabit.

[Spirit of 94]

Cheers SS2, you've saved me the bother. The most comprehensive dismantling of an opinion (or should that be fact ) as I have seen on here.  Not that it was that difficult.

To arrogantly state that only for Maghera and McCrory success 93 would never have happened, when anyone with a braincell knows that it was the combination of a multitude of factors, indicates the level of footballing intelligence you're dealing with here. 

[FermGael]

The school under Corrigan and Peter McGinnity in the 90s made huge strides at schools football and openly targeted top players from other schools for entry at sixth year like Owens and McGrath did

So McGrath's time under Dodgy Dom was more important than his Sigerson career, which lasted longer and involved playing with and against better players than his MacRory career?

Saffron you are right about McGinnity and Dom targeting players in the mid 90's but in the last 10 years there have been many good footballers who have not got in and have been refused entry to Upper sixth because they did not get the grades, regardless of footballing ability.

McGrath would have got into St Mick's regardless of footballing ability so he is a bad example to use.

[Maximus Marillius]

SS2 you in your own very sad way of trying to undermine Mc Guckians contribution you inadvertly proved my point. Since M c Guckian came on the scene it  has coincided with an up turn in Derrys national successes. A senior All Ireland,  4 national league, 3 Ulster c'ships, 3 All Ireland minor, 9 Ulster minor c'ships and 1 u21 All Ireland, 5 Ulster u21 c'ships. He is one major factor, along with many others. I wont even start about the impact he has had on ballinderry underage success and how it has trans formed them into one of the big clubs in club football

The one thing that is very noticable in all SS2 responses to most arguments his his never ending ability to never give people credit. A complete begrudger of the highest order.

Spirits contribution well, the less said the better, he's liable to try and hit you or worst still throw water at ya