Man Utd Thread:

Started by full back, November 10, 2006, 08:13:49 AM

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seafoid

Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 13, 2018, 08:55:00 AM
His work rate was second to none but sometimes he ran about like a headless chicken.

I think the easy way out is to blame the Glazers. Kronke is no better at Arsenal but at least Emery appears to have a plan, well at this early stage anyway.
Man Utd have been in crisis since Fergie left, Walter. The last 2 managers won the Champions League so they weren't employing nobodies.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Walter Cronc

Surely the manager has to take some accountability over the signings though Seafoid.

Maroon Manc

#43067
Looking at the last few seasons under Mourinho and based on the lack of players bought in last season I didn't see United doing any better than last seasons 81 points once the transfer window had closed. I'd have expected to see United play better football than last season and since the Newcastle game we've seen the best football under Mourinho.

Clearly many of his signings haven't worked out, Matic looked brilliant for the first few months but has been poor since now whether thats down to whats around him or him regressing as a player I don't now. Lukaku was very good last season, definitely wouldn't write him off. Fred hasn't settled in yet but I'm confident from what I've seen of him he'll do well. Its taken Lindelof a while but I've been very impressed with him recently. Mourinho ultimately has to take the blame for signings that don't work out.

The best we could hope for this season is Top 4, win a trophy and do better in Europe with what we've got and play a better brand of football.

NAG1

Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 13, 2018, 09:36:54 AM
Looking at the last few seasons under Mourinho and based on the lack of players bought in last season I didn't see United doing any better than last seasons 81 points once the transfer window had closed. I'd have expected to see United play better football than last season and since the Newcastle game we've seen the best football under Mourinho.

Clearly many of his signings haven't worked out, Matic looked brilliant for the first few months but has been poor since now whether thats down to whats around him or him regressing as a player I don't now. Lukaku was very good last season, definitely wouldn't write him off. Fred hasn't settled in yet but I'm confident from what I've seen of him he'll do well. Its taken Lindelof a while but I've been very impressed with him recently. Mourinho ultimately has to take the blame for signings that don't work out.

The best we could hope for this season is Top 4, win a trophy and do better in Europe with what we've got and play a better brand of football.

MM would have to agree with a lot of that.

Comes back to the old thing of who is out there that would be available and want the job when they do pull the plug on JM. Sunday was bleak but they wont be playing a Man City every weekend, I think the test is to show a bit more positivity when they are playing everyone else.

seafoid

Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 13, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
Surely the manager has to take some accountability over the signings though Seafoid.
He didn't buy very well, Walter , but the club is a mess.
There is no direction and that is not Mourinho's fault.

Man Utd last played in the Champions League Final in 2011 which is 8 seasons ago.
They were destroyed by a Guardiola team. 
Man Utd are currently failing and could easily fail for another decade.

If it was GAA they would be Down or maybe Meath.
You know when teams are not going anywhere, have no momentum or nothing to build on. It takes a long time to get out of that and become winners again.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

TabClear

Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2018, 10:18:46 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 13, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
Surely the manager has to take some accountability over the signings though Seafoid.
He didn't buy very well, Walter , but the club is a mess.
There is no direction and that is not Mourinho's fault.

Man Utd last played in the Champions League Final in 2011 which is 8 seasons ago.
They were destroyed by a Guardiola team. 
Man Utd are currently failing and could easily fail for another decade.

If it was GAA they would be Down or maybe Meath.
You know when teams are not going anywhere, have no momentum or nothing to build on. It takes a long time to get out of that and become winners again.

Why are so many on here prepared to give José a bye ball? He has been given resources practically every other manager could only dream about, spent massively on players including a world record fee and he has absolutely failed to deliver. And on top of that he has acted like an arrogant bollox at every opportunity, blamed everyone but himself including throwing players under the bus and played awful football to boot.

All a manager can ask for is money for transfers and freedom to decide how the team play. Jose has got both of these. The man is a cancer

Boycey

Who's giving him a bye ball? The world's about opinions, and some on here feel that maybe he's not the root cause of all United's issues.

Personally if I thought getting rid of him in the morning would make things better I'd lose no sleep but I don't and ain't going to say so just cause it's the easy thing to do...

NAG1

Quote from: Boycey on November 13, 2018, 10:52:15 AM
Who's giving him a bye ball? The world's about opinions, and some on here feel that maybe he's not the root cause of all United's issues.

Personally if I thought getting rid of him in the morning would make things better I'd lose no sleep but I don't and ain't going to say so just cause it's the easy thing to do...

It is a lot more complex than just sacking the manager.
At the end of the day it is a results business like it or not and at the moment as I have kept refering back too, the team finished second behind City last season.

City are getting plaudits as one of the best sides in Europe never mind the EPL. So that means under his guidance they finished ahead of Liverpool and Spurs who everyone raved about all last year. So I can see why in some sense he is aggrieved at how he is treated by the media.

The style of football etc is another debate entirely.

Mayo4Sam

Second captains made an interesting point that on Uniteds bench (Fred) was a player who cost more than all but Mahrez and Laporte at City.
Excuse me for talking while you're trying to interrupt me

Boycey

Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 13, 2018, 11:36:56 AM
Second captains made an interesting point that on Uniteds bench (Fred) was a player who cost more than all but Mahrez and Laporte at City.

One stat in isolation proves little, I could produce several to counter it.

Maroon Manc

All City have done since 2008 is spend huge money, they've a lot more expensive signings who've not worked out then United. City must have signed at least 10 players around what Fred would cost so thats a pathetic comment to make. City's best 16/17 players cost about £700m so lets not get carried away.

Pep would not be replicating what he's done at City with United. He inherited Sterling, Aguero, De Bruyne, Fernandinho & Silva. Thats 5 out of his first choice front 6 so he had a lot easier job than he'd have had at United. Then he went out and spent nearly £550m so about £200m more than Unitd have spent during that period.

Look at the state of that squad Mourinho inherited, it had one outfield player in Martial who'd be probably good enough to start in a Pep team.

seafoid

Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 13, 2018, 12:35:56 PM
All City have done since 2008 is spend huge money, they've a lot more expensive signings who've not worked out then United. City must have signed at least 10 players around what Fred would cost so thats a pathetic comment to make. City's best 16/17 players cost about £700m so lets not get carried away.

Pep would not be replicating what he's done at City with United. He inherited Sterling, Aguero, De Bruyne, Fernandinho & Silva. Thats 5 out of his first choice front 6 so he had a lot easier job than he'd have had at United. Then he went out and spent nearly £550m so about £200m more than Unitd have spent during that period.

Look at the state of that squad Mourinho inherited, it had one outfield player in Martial who'd be probably good enough to start in a Pep team.

When the county gets hammered in Croke Park you know on the way home that more than a few players are not good enough and will have to be replaced even if there is currently nobody. It is a painful adjustment to GAA reality.   Man Utd are in a similar position. There is too much dead wood. And there is too much wood ward.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/12/manchester-united-transfer-market-jose-mourinho

Of the centre-backs the defensively suspect Chris Smalling, Marcos Rojo and Phil Jones should be sold, and two new ones bought to compete with Victor Lindelöf and Eric Bailly
Nemanja Matic should become a squad option only, and the average Ander Herrera and Scott McTominay sold.
Alexis Sánchez was meant to be the answer but has scored once in nine league appearances this season and is thought to want to leave. Factor in him being a free transfer who earns at least £350,000 a week and United should offload him in January. Marcus Rashford again failed at centre-forward against City and appears lost so at 21 would benefit from a loan. Juan Mata and Jesse Lingard are merely squad players.

When City beat Fulham 2-0 in the Carabao Cup Guardiola made 10 changes to field a "second XI" that featured Brazil's No 9, Jesus, Vincent Kompany, the captain, England's World Cup player Fabian Delph, Sané, Danilo and Kevin De Bruyne, who when fit again may put Bernardo Silva back on the bench. Mourinho can only dream of these riches: his outfield replacements for the derby were Jones, Darmian, Fred, Sánchez and Lukaku – the latter still recovering from injury.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Cunny Funt

Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 13, 2018, 12:35:56 PM
All City have done since 2008 is spend huge money, they've a lot more expensive signings who've not worked out then United. City must have signed at least 10 players around what Fred would cost so thats a pathetic comment to make. City's best 16/17 players cost about £700m so lets not get carried away.

Pep would not be replicating what he's done at City with United. He inherited Sterling, Aguero, De Bruyne, Fernandinho & Silva. Thats 5 out of his first choice front 6 so he had a lot easier job than he'd have had at United. Then he went out and spent nearly £550m so about £200m more than Unitd have spent during that period.

Look at the state of that squad Mourinho inherited, it had one outfield player in Martial who'd be probably good enough to start in a Pep team.
His form is one of the main reasons why Mourinho wasn't already sacked and Jose made a decent effort in trying to sell him last summer. As soon as Martial has a bad half he'll be dropped to the bench.

United are as close to Cardiff City in the table now as Man City so too much of a focus is put on the latter team while losing sight to where United currently are, only four teams in the league has conceded more goals than United this season, serious questions need to be asked why have United regressed so badly this season? This is year 3 with Mourinho and progress should be seen or at least consistency from last season.

magpie seanie

Quote from: TabClear on November 13, 2018, 10:40:07 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2018, 10:18:46 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 13, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
Surely the manager has to take some accountability over the signings though Seafoid.
He didn't buy very well, Walter , but the club is a mess.
There is no direction and that is not Mourinho's fault.

Man Utd last played in the Champions League Final in 2011 which is 8 seasons ago.
They were destroyed by a Guardiola team. 
Man Utd are currently failing and could easily fail for another decade.

If it was GAA they would be Down or maybe Meath.
You know when teams are not going anywhere, have no momentum or nothing to build on. It takes a long time to get out of that and become winners again.

Why are so many on here prepared to give José a bye ball? He has been given resources practically every other manager could only dream about, spent massively on players including a world record fee and he has absolutely failed to deliver. And on top of that he has acted like an arrogant bollox at every opportunity, blamed everyone but himself including throwing players under the bus and played awful football to boot.

All a manager can ask for is money for transfers and freedom to decide how the team play. Jose has got both of these. The man is a cancer

I've no idea. And expecting the quality to improve is just beyond belief. That's pure blind faith/wishful thinking. He's picking the team a bit better and dropping guys who are playing shite because he now wants to stay in the job (after he stopped doing his job and the players pulled the team back in the Newcastle game). Picking the best players in their best positions is a basic fundamental thing for a manager I'd have thought but there's always more to it with this guy.

We know what this guy is. To paraphrase that famous Dennis Green quote - He is who we thought he was.

magpie seanie

Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2018, 04:37:09 PM
You've a one track mind when it comes to Mourinho Seanie, not everything is his fault.

I never said "everything" was his fault (I've had to repeat this multiple times) but I make no apologies for my position that he has no business at Manchester United. When I asked the question I was hoping you'd have some insight to the contrary like you've had on other players. In the absence of any I'll draw my own conclusions, which I'm clearly not alone about.