'Replacement dwellings' and planning regulations in the north.

Donagh · May 20, 2009, 03:43:41 PM

Have spotted a few properties in the Mourne area that I'd be interested in but I'm not clued into the complexities of the planning laws. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The first property is a smallholding with a disused farmhouse and outbuildings. The house is in a bad state of repair and is a little small, so if I was renovating it would almost be a complete rebuild with an extension. Even though I'm not from the area, would it be likely that I could knock and rebuild, or would I just have to renovate whatever is already there?

The second property is a ruined cottage again on a smallholding. The cottage beyond salvaging - no roof and only three walls. What's my chances of getting planning permission for a new build?

The third is a fairly well maintained wee cottage on a smallholding. This only has one bedroom and is way to small for our needs. What would my options be here i.e. could I knock it and build another or would I be restricted to extending?

On a general point, if I was to renovate one of these, what sort of time are you talking before I get a decision on outline planning permission?

oakleafgael · May 20, 2009, 04:08:53 PM

Quote from: Donagh on May 20, 2009, 03:43:41 PM
Have spotted a few properties in the Mourne area that I'd be interested in but I'm not clued into the complexities of the planning laws. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The first property is a smallholding with a disused farmhouse and outbuildings. The house is in a bad state of repair and is a little small, so if I was renovating it would almost be a complete rebuild with an extension. Even though I'm not from the area, would it be likely that I could knock and rebuild, or would I just have to renovate whatever is already there?

The second property is a ruined cottage again on a smallholding. The cottage beyond salvaging - no roof and only three walls. What's my chances of getting planning permission for a new build?

The third is a fairly well maintained wee cottage on a smallholding. This only has one bedroom and is way to small for our needs. What would my options be here i.e. could I knock it and build another or would I be restricted to extending?

On a general point, if I was to renovate one of these, what sort of time are you talking before I get a decision on outline planning permission?

Donagh,

You will not get permission for a replacement dwelling on either of the first two.

You may get a replacement permission for the third. Expect anything from 6 months to 2 years depending on the council area. They also may restrict the size of your replacement depending on the existing and the surrounding area.

lfdown2 · May 20, 2009, 04:12:16 PM

my understanding is that for a replacement dwelling the existing dwelling has to be liveable, ie running water electricity etc, which as stated above seems to rule out the first two, also with the third the chances of getting much more than another 1 bedroom would be slim but im not an expert,

ps

any word on the pps21

Donagh · May 20, 2009, 04:12:56 PM

Quote from: oakleafgael on May 20, 2009, 04:08:53 PM

You will not get permission for a replacement dwelling on either of the first two.

You may get a replacement permission for the third. Expect anything from 6 months to 2 years depending on the council area. They also may restrict the size of your replacement depending on the existing and the surrounding area.

Thanks oakleafgael. Do you think I'd be able to renovate and extend the first?

Donagh · May 20, 2009, 04:15:22 PM

Quote from: lfdown2 on May 20, 2009, 04:12:16 PM
my understanding is that for a replacement dwelling the existing dwelling has to be liveable, ie running water electricity etc, which as stated above seems to rule out the first two, also with the third the chances of getting much more than another 1 bedroom would be slim but im not an expert,

I was in the first one last night. It has running water and there is a fuse box to the mains electricity - I think the vendor has been making sure to keep utilities connected with a view to reselling.

Onion Bag · May 20, 2009, 04:18:52 PM

Donagh,

you should get a planning permission for any 3 of them, PPS21 allows you to replace as long as it has 4 walls, it doesnt necessarily have to have a roof,

I know cause i have just had one approved recently,

Under the old PPS14 it had to be habitable

Hank Everlast · May 20, 2009, 04:23:26 PM

Quote from: Donagh on May 20, 2009, 03:43:41 PM
Have spotted a few properties in the Mourne area that I'd be interested in but I'm not clued into the complexities of the planning laws. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The first property is a smallholding with a disused farmhouse and outbuildings. The house is in a bad state of repair and is a little small, so if I was renovating it would almost be a complete rebuild with an extension. Even though I'm not from the area, would it be likely that I could knock and rebuild, or would I just have to renovate whatever is already there?

The second property is a ruined cottage again on a smallholding. The cottage beyond salvaging - no roof and only three walls. What's my chances of getting planning permission for a new build?

The third is a fairly well maintained wee cottage on a smallholding. This only has one bedroom and is way to small for our needs. What would my options be here i.e. could I knock it and build another or would I be restricted to extending?

On a general point, if I was to renovate one of these, what sort of time are you talking before I get a decision on outline planning permission?

1st one you will get permission, but it will be like for like, a small dwelling with same ridge level etc and will have to be sited on footprint.

2nd one, same as, but it would have to exhibit essential characteristics of house, eg structural walls, thats it. favour will be give to those proposlas that show significant environmental benefits, eg gettn rid of an eyesore!

3rd, replacement would again be restriced to something similar to existing, floorspace may be able to be increased for example to the rear as long as the visual appearance does not appear any larger.

Planning permission will take different times in different areas, anything from 1 month now (new streamlining process in place) till a few months or longer if there are amendments needed.

Give me a pm if you want any further advice

What ifdown and oakleaf gael are referring to is the old system and the old PPS 14 REGULATIONS. However they have recently been updated to draft pps21 which gives more leeway!

lfdown2 · May 20, 2009, 04:28:59 PM

Quote from: Hank Everlast on May 20, 2009, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: Donagh on May 20, 2009, 03:43:41 PM
Have spotted a few properties in the Mourne area that I'd be interested in but I'm not clued into the complexities of the planning laws. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The first property is a smallholding with a disused farmhouse and outbuildings. The house is in a bad state of repair and is a little small, so if I was renovating it would almost be a complete rebuild with an extension. Even though I'm not from the area, would it be likely that I could knock and rebuild, or would I just have to renovate whatever is already there?

The second property is a ruined cottage again on a smallholding. The cottage beyond salvaging - no roof and only three walls. What's my chances of getting planning permission for a new build?

The third is a fairly well maintained wee cottage on a smallholding. This only has one bedroom and is way to small for our needs. What would my options be here i.e. could I knock it and build another or would I be restricted to extending?

On a general point, if I was to renovate one of these, what sort of time are you talking before I get a decision on outline planning permission?

1st one you will get permission, but it will be like for like, a small dwelling with same ridge level etc and will have to be sited on footprint.

2nd one, same as, but it would have to exhibit essential characteristics of house, eg structural walls, thats it. favour will be give to those proposlas that show significant environmental benefits, eg gettn rid of an eyesore!

3rd, replacement would again be restriced to something similar to existing, floorspace may be able to be increased for example to the rear as long as the visual appearance does not appear any larger.

Planning permission will take different times in different areas, anything from 1 month now (new streamlining process in place) till a few months or longer if there are amendments needed.

Give me a pm if you want any further advice

What ifdown and oakleaf gael are referring to is the old system and the old PPS 14 REGULATIONS. However they have recently been updated to draft pps21 which gives more leeway!

so are they using the new pps21 while they are still in the consultation process?

Onion Bag · May 20, 2009, 04:33:00 PM

Yip

oakleafgael · May 20, 2009, 04:39:49 PM

Quote from: lfdown2 on May 20, 2009, 04:28:59 PM
Quote from: Hank Everlast on May 20, 2009, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: Donagh on May 20, 2009, 03:43:41 PM
Have spotted a few properties in the Mourne area that I'd be interested in but I'm not clued into the complexities of the planning laws. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The first property is a smallholding with a disused farmhouse and outbuildings. The house is in a bad state of repair and is a little small, so if I was renovating it would almost be a complete rebuild with an extension. Even though I'm not from the area, would it be likely that I could knock and rebuild, or would I just have to renovate whatever is already there?

The second property is a ruined cottage again on a smallholding. The cottage beyond salvaging - no roof and only three walls. What's my chances of getting planning permission for a new build?

The third is a fairly well maintained wee cottage on a smallholding. This only has one bedroom and is way to small for our needs. What would my options be here i.e. could I knock it and build another or would I be restricted to extending?

On a general point, if I was to renovate one of these, what sort of time are you talking before I get a decision on outline planning permission?

1st one you will get permission, but it will be like for like, a small dwelling with same ridge level etc and will have to be sited on footprint.

2nd one, same as, but it would have to exhibit essential characteristics of house, eg structural walls, thats it. favour will be give to those proposlas that show significant environmental benefits, eg gettn rid of an eyesore!

3rd, replacement would again be restriced to something similar to existing, floorspace may be able to be increased for example to the rear as long as the visual appearance does not appear any larger.

Planning permission will take different times in different areas, anything from 1 month now (new streamlining process in place) till a few months or longer if there are amendments needed.

Give me a pm if you want any further advice

What ifdown and oakleaf gael are referring to is the old system and the old PPS 14 REGULATIONS. However they have recently been updated to draft pps21 which gives more leeway!

so are they using the new pps21 while they are still in the consultation process?

Some councils are working under the pps21 and others are still using pps14 and others are sitting on their arses and doing nothing at all.

Donagh · May 20, 2009, 05:03:10 PM

Quote from: Hank Everlast on May 20, 2009, 04:23:26 PM
1st one you will get permission, but it will be like for like, a small dwelling with same ridge level etc and will have to be sited on footprint.

2nd one, same as, but it would have to exhibit essential characteristics of house, eg structural walls, thats it. favour will be give to those proposlas that show significant environmental benefits, eg gettn rid of an eyesore!

3rd, replacement would again be restriced to something similar to existing, floorspace may be able to be increased for example to the rear as long as the visual appearance does not appear any larger.

Planning permission will take different times in different areas, anything from 1 month now (new streamlining process in place) till a few months or longer if there are amendments needed.

Give me a pm if you want any further advice

What ifdown and oakleaf gael are referring to is the old system and the old PPS 14 REGULATIONS. However they have recently been updated to draft pps21 which gives more leeway!

Thanks Hank that's very useful. Probably also explains why the first is so much more expensive than the others despite having less land with it. Will maybe get back to you after we've been out to see the second two.

Hank Everlast · May 21, 2009, 09:00:26 AM

Quote from: oakleafgael on May 20, 2009, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on May 20, 2009, 04:28:59 PM
Quote from: Hank Everlast on May 20, 2009, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: Donagh on May 20, 2009, 03:43:41 PM
Have spotted a few properties in the Mourne area that I'd be interested in but I'm not clued into the complexities of the planning laws. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The first property is a smallholding with a disused farmhouse and outbuildings. The house is in a bad state of repair and is a little small, so if I was renovating it would almost be a complete rebuild with an extension. Even though I'm not from the area, would it be likely that I could knock and rebuild, or would I just have to renovate whatever is already there?

The second property is a ruined cottage again on a smallholding. The cottage beyond salvaging - no roof and only three walls. What's my chances of getting planning permission for a new build?

The third is a fairly well maintained wee cottage on a smallholding. This only has one bedroom and is way to small for our needs. What would my options be here i.e. could I knock it and build another or would I be restricted to extending?

On a general point, if I was to renovate one of these, what sort of time are you talking before I get a decision on outline planning permission?

1st one you will get permission, but it will be like for like, a small dwelling with same ridge level etc and will have to be sited on footprint.

2nd one, same as, but it would have to exhibit essential characteristics of house, eg structural walls, thats it. favour will be give to those proposlas that show significant environmental benefits, eg gettn rid of an eyesore!

3rd, replacement would again be restriced to something similar to existing, floorspace may be able to be increased for example to the rear as long as the visual appearance does not appear any larger.

Planning permission will take different times in different areas, anything from 1 month now (new streamlining process in place) till a few months or longer if there are amendments needed.

Give me a pm if you want any further advice

What ifdown and oakleaf gael are referring to is the old system and the old PPS 14 REGULATIONS. However they have recently been updated to draft pps21 which gives more leeway!

so are they using the new pps21 while they are still in the consultation process?

Some councils are working under the pps21 and others are still using pps14 and others are sitting on their arses and doing nothing at all.

No councils are using PPS14 any more, any decisions that were defered for what ever reasons under pps14 are all being re-assesed under 21.

Hank Everlast · May 21, 2009, 12:39:01 PM

I forgot to mention that this is El Cuervo's speciality.... the mans well known for his powers in getting planning permission for anything, anywhere!

Trevor Hill · July 06, 2009, 02:38:34 PM

Sorry for hijacking Donaghs thread but I dont think this one needs a new thread.
I have found a plot of land for sale with fantastic views at a really good price. It is not being sold as a site with permission, just as a parcel of land. How difficult would it be to get planning permission on land like this? The estate agent says it is a good long term bet, but he is trying to sell it after all and will say anything just to get a sale.

downtown · August 23, 2019, 10:41:55 PM

Hi all. Jus a quick question about planning permission if anyone can help. We have a family farm and a site has been passed and a house built on in 2017. Now is there any way to get another site passed on the farm ? I no the rule is 1 site on farm in 10 years. Wondering is there any at around it. Thanks in advance