Catalan Independence Movement

[CiKe]

Two leading UK betting company odds  from oddschecker

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/european-politics/catalonia-referendum/winner/bet-history/yes-to-independence

August 27   -   2/5  yes vote

Sept 21    -     1/16 yes vote

So much for the confidence in the alleged dwindling yes vote.

Did I read your original source wrong or are you now refuting my post with this new poll source? As Gallsman says, the likelihood of a yes vote is going to be very high if those who would vote no, don't vote.

It's not about you, I couldn't care less about what's going through your head or others for that matter.
It's just my habit to look for intelligent neutral sources for more accurate information.

I don't think it's about me for a second and I'm all for everyone reading from all sides. What I'm pointing out is that the numbers you're posting don't stack up. Ideally people would read and understand. It is all too easy for people from the outside looking in to think , "oh the poor oppressed Catalans" and I think particularly those of us who grew up in the North are almost predisposed to think that way.

Cataluña's biggest complaint is that they pay more in taxes than they get back. Supposedly 16bn according to Junqueras. I haven't seen anyone dispute that they contribute more but the pieces I have read put the figure closer to €1.5bn. This is same as Farage's £350mn quid a week lies for the NHS.

Now guess what. Madrid also contributes more and on a very similar level to Cataluña. Spain operates a progressive tax system which means that richer people pay more, and I believe that is the way it should be. The logical extension of this is that wealthier areas will pay more and be net contributors. Junqueras argument is like a millionaire saying he is loaded but shouldn't be means tested for any social aid etc.

There are several studies showing that Cataluña is far from the worst affected autonomous community in this regard, with at least Valencia and Murcia worse off.

[vallankumous]

Things are really taking a bad turn.

Deploying Police from Madrid to stop the referendum taking place is going to lead to anarchy.
Regardless of what we want to believe the police have their own opinions and with this deployment the probably have the support of central Government.
A recipe for disaster. I read there's 49% of Catalans that want to stay with Spain. That silent majority is the way out of this. They should be used by central Government not the police.

If it all kicks off Spain will be bringing itself to a very long period of trouble.

[under the bar]

Madrid making a big mistake bringing the police in to stop people voting. Why are police needed to prevent irrelevant voting that's unconstitutional? Just declare the result is unrecognised and let them vote.   The shame of Franco's oppressive regime is still in living memory for many!

[gallsman]

The doing it to make a politically misguided statement. Also, it'll help them when they bring charges of sedition or at the very least misappropriation of public funds as referendums don't come cheap.

[gallsman]

Skirmishes happening already. Rubber bullets fired apparently and some photos/videos of old women being dragged away.

[under the bar]

Skirmishes happening already. Rubber bullets fired apparently and some photos/videos of old women being dragged away.

The violent actions of the fascist scum are simply fuelling the Catalan cause.

[gallsman]

Skirmishes happening already. Rubber bullets fired apparently and some photos/videos of old women being dragged away.

The violent actions of the fascist scum are simply fuelling the Catalan cause.

Fascism? Cop the f**k on. Lazy propaganda of the highest order. Cops wearing helmets isn't the exclusive preserve of fascism ffs.

[stew]

Skirmishes happening already. Rubber bullets fired apparently and some photos/videos of old women being dragged away.

The violent actions of the fascist scum are simply fuelling the Catalan cause.

Why not simply refuse to recognise these elections instead of this bully boy bullshit!

Arrogance and stupidity from the government here, they are acting like the brits and I hope it bites them in the hole!

c***ts!

[StGallsGAA]

Skirmishes happening already. Rubber bullets fired apparently and some photos/videos of old women being dragged away.

The violent actions of the fascist scum are simply fuelling the Catalan cause.

Fascism? Cop the f**k on. Lazy propaganda of the highest order. Cops wearing helmets isn't the exclusive preserve of fascism ffs.

What about firing rubber bullets at people for the crime of turning out to vote?? 

[gallsman]

Skirmishes happening already. Rubber bullets fired apparently and some photos/videos of old women being dragged away.

The violent actions of the fascist scum are simply fuelling the Catalan cause.

Fascism? Cop the f**k on. Lazy propaganda of the highest order. Cops wearing helmets isn't the exclusive preserve of fascism ffs.

What about firing rubber bullets at people for the crime of turning out to vote??

Yeah it's a complete disgrace and completely disproportionate, regardless of the fact the referendum is illegal.

That doesn't make it fascist.

[tonto1888]

Those videos aren't good. Don't look good on the Spanish government and police

[StGallsGAA]

Skirmishes happening already. Rubber bullets fired apparently and some photos/videos of old women being dragged away.

The violent actions of the fascist scum are simply fuelling the Catalan cause.

Fascism? Cop the f**k on. Lazy propaganda of the highest order. Cops wearing helmets isn't the exclusive preserve of fascism ffs.

What about firing rubber bullets at people for the crime of turning out to vote??

Yeah it's a complete disgrace and completely disproportionate, regardless of the fact the referendum is illegal.

That doesn't make it fascist.

The chants from those being brutalized would suggest they don't share your view! 

[gallsman]

I can chant all I want about something and that doesn't make it true.

Because of Spain's fascist past, it's very easy to label any sort of action from Madrid as such when in reality it's a deliberate ploy designed to effect the memory of Francoist oppression.

[StGallsGAA]

I can chant all I want about something and that doesn't make it true.

Because of Spain's fascist past, it's very easy to label any sort of action from Madrid as such when in reality it's a deliberate ploy designed to effect the memory of Francoist oppression.

So what's happening at present isn't the actions of an oppressive govt then?

[sid waddell]

I can chant all I want about something and that doesn't make it true.

Because of Spain's fascist past, it's very easy to label any sort of action from Madrid as such when in reality it's a deliberate ploy designed to effect the memory of Francoist oppression.

I think it's pretty obvious that the Spanish government are well aware that Catalans have both first hand memory (those who were alive at the time) and a strong folk memory (younger people) of Francoist oppression in Catalonia.

And yet they still went ahead with a violent crackdown on this vote.

So one has to presume that their actions are a deliberate ploy designed to effect the memory of Francoist oppression in Catalans.

Why they'd do that, I have no idea, except to presume that that bullying, fascist mindset still stirs strongly within them.

Bullies tend to have an inner fascist and they tend not to have much emotional intelligence.

Mr. Rajoy demonstrated that years ago when he threw away a general election he was strongly fancied to win when he went along with the outgoing Prime Minister Aznar in blaming ETA for the Madrid bombings, when the dogs on the street in Ballyhaunis could have told you that Islamists were responsible.