So what do ye think of the black card rule now?

[highorlow]

ZULU, It's your aggressive tone that is coming out as bad form. You cannot admit that your wrong.

You still choose to neglect my direct question. You won't deal with it because you know your wrong.

Where in any of the GAA rules or definitions does it say that you cannot touch an opponent player?

Your out of control with your accusations in your last post and if you cannot control what your are writing in an internet forum then you shouldn't be let near refereeing a match because it's doubtful you would be able to remain in control. This is my last comment on the thread and I will leave it to others to comment back on what is a good discussion (as you have requested).

[Zulu]

Well Benny, highorlow has engaged with me in an aggressive manner right from the start and has repeatedly replied with an insulting and confrontational tone. I've tried to elaborate and explain my point but this guy hasn't managed to do that at any point so I've addressed him the way he has been addressing me. Perhaps not the right thing to do but considering my point was only the rule book can be interpreted in a certain way his 'panties in twist' attitude has become quite annoying.

Zulu, This is an interesting discussion that is getting disrupted by your argument with highorlow. In this instance highorlow is being needlessly confrontational. I think his comments to you were unfair but could I ask you to join in the rest of us and ignore him.

I read your quote regarding the rules of the tackle. You are right tat it was worded badly in it's clarification (actually made it much worse). But tat quote isn't actually in the rule book is it? The actual rules allow for a fair amount of physicality as I described earlier, don't they? The instances mentioned in your quote are all the same as the ones I stated were illegal. But the physical contact I suggest is allowed is surely still ok?

I am interested in your opinion as you are a ref

PaulD123, the rule quoted is the new definition of the tackle from the FRC and is meant to be a clarification on what is and isn't allowed when tackling. At the black card review meeting we had, the referee tutor made the point that by definition no physical contact was allowed when tackling, bar a shoulder, but nobody (correctly IMO) adheres to that as to do so would make tackling impossible.

I agree with a lot of what you said in an earlier post -

So blocking a player, getting close, bearing down on him, harrying him by pushing him a bit with your chest into his back (from standing not charging run), and wrapping your arms around (so long as you don't grab him and "hold him with the hands") are all legal physicality.

Insofar as much of the above is allowed, though wrapping two arms around a guy is a foul for me, in most games. However, by definition, any contact would be a foul.

I like to allow defenders a good deal of leeway in how physical they can be when tackling so as long as they are aiming an open hand at the ball then they can be quite physical in doing so. If they leave the hand in, pull the jersey, push in the back or grab at the attackers arm or hand I'll probably give a free. By the same token, I give the attacker a bit of leeway on the steps as I probably leave defenders 'half foul' at times so it'd be harsh on the attacker to blow him for 5 steps.

The problem for me is that refereeing in football is totally about interpretation. I like to allow teams get on with it and play a physical brand of football, I don't give too many frees or dish out cards easily but if lads are getting out of hand I'll crack down. If I see a man go to ground he won't get a free unless I can see why he went to ground, i.e. he was pushed, tripped or dragged down but if defenders are simply swinging at him and not attempting to tackle the ball then he will get leeway to do something or get his free. Bottom line for me is that I only give a free if I know why and if you ask me I can tell you, none of this 'you know why Sean stuff!!'. However, you could ref a game after me in a very different way and be just as good/bad simply by having a different interpretation. That shouldn't be the way and I don't think the definition of a tackle should include the phrase "no deliberate physical contact" because it isn't even remotely close to what's going on in games.

[orangeman]

Pat Mc Enaney didn't do a great job on the Sunday Game last night. Referees do get it tough and it's hard to referee but so many of the heads of the refs committee are simply apologists.

[blewuporstuffed]

Some wildly varying applications of the black card in the tyrone club championship this weekend.
A few fells can rightly feel very hard done by for getting shown black cards.

[Itchy]

Does anyone know who referreed the Tipp v Limerick football match yesterday and what rule book he was using. Black carded a player who barely touched his opponent, who didn't even go to ground. A yellow card for a goalie who rugby tackled a forward and the saved a penalty and then another extremely harsh peno for a foot block. And they were only the 60 second highlights.

[orangeman]

Does anyone know who referreed the Tipp v Limerick football match yesterday and what rule book he was using. Black carded a player who barely touched his opponent, who didn't even go to ground. A yellow card for a goalie who rugby tackled a forward and the saved a penalty and then another extremely harsh peno for a foot block. And they were only the 60 second highlights.

Anthony Nolan.

[AZOffaly]

He was dire. From Wicklow.

[Collie Brolly]

Does anyone know who referreed the Tipp v Limerick football match yesterday and what rule book he was using. Black carded a player who barely touched his opponent, who didn't even go to ground. A yellow card for a goalie who rugby tackled a forward and the saved a penalty and then another extremely harsh peno for a foot block. And they were only the 60 second highlights.

Footblock was not even close to a footblock.First bc was touch and go but the goalie I honestly felt pushed the player as opposed to pulled him down.Think this was refs reading of it judging by his actions.As for the Sunday game debate,it was fairly harmless,McEnaney did well I thought and his logic made sense,there has been a vast overreaction to a few incidents.Dessie Dolan was an embarrassment.He didn't seem to have prepared his argument at all.Can't understand why someone from Ulster wasn't brought in to speak against it seeding as this is where most of the opposition comes from.

[lenny]

Does anyone know who referreed the Tipp v Limerick football match yesterday and what rule book he was using. Black carded a player who barely touched his opponent, who didn't even go to ground. A yellow card for a goalie who rugby tackled a forward and the saved a penalty and then another extremely harsh peno for a foot block. And they were only the 60 second highlights.

Absolutely nowhere near a foot block. does anyone else think that most of the problems we are complaining about re football would be resolved by going back to the old rule whereby only one player at a time is allowed to tackle an opponent. When I played and was tackling an opponent if one of my teammates came in to help out a free was almost always awarded. Going back to  this rule would be a lot easier for referees and would make the game a whole lot better to watch. It would cut out the horrible situations where a player is surrounded by 7 or 8 opponents and finds it impossible to play the ball.

[AZOffaly]

Does anyone know who referreed the Tipp v Limerick football match yesterday and what rule book he was using. Black carded a player who barely touched his opponent, who didn't even go to ground. A yellow card for a goalie who rugby tackled a forward and the saved a penalty and then another extremely harsh peno for a foot block. And they were only the 60 second highlights.

Footblock was not even close to a footblock.First bc was touch and go but the goalie I honestly felt pushed the player as opposed to pulled him down.Think this was refs reading of it judging by his actions.As for the Sunday game debate,it was fairly harmless,McEnaney did well I thought and his logic made sense,there has been a vast overreaction to a few incidents.Dessie Dolan was an embarrassment.He didn't seem to have prepared his argument at all.Can't understand why someone from Ulster wasn't brought in to speak against it seeding as this is where most of the opposition comes from.

I remember Dessie speaking on the radio about the Black Card when it came in first, and he has been consistently against it. He was stuttery on Sunday evening, but what he was actually saying was it's too hard for refs to adjudge whether a pull down is 'deliberate' or not, especially if some players are trying it on. He's got a point in that. It is difficult, and this is where you hope the refs only award them where they are sure.

I felt the one v Tipp was very harsh. I don't think he deliberately pulled down the man. He tried to put him off his shot, and the player fell down. I don't think it was a deliberate pull down.

The foot block was just atrocious. Must have been near 5 yards before the ball hit the defender. Good job it wasn't a close game.

[blewuporstuffed]

Does anyone know who referreed the Tipp v Limerick football match yesterday and what rule book he was using. Black carded a player who barely touched his opponent, who didn't even go to ground. A yellow card for a goalie who rugby tackled a forward and the saved a penalty and then another extremely harsh peno for a foot block. And they were only the 60 second highlights.

Footblock was not even close to a footblock.First bc was touch and go but the goalie I honestly felt pushed the player as opposed to pulled him down.Think this was refs reading of it judging by his actions.As for the Sunday game debate,it was fairly harmless,McEnaney did well I thought and his logic made sense,there has been a vast overreaction to a few incidents.Dessie Dolan was an embarrassment.He didn't seem to have prepared his argument at all.Can't understand why someone from Ulster wasn't brought in to speak against it seeding as this is where most of the opposition comes from.

I remember Dessie speaking on the radio about the Black Card when it came in first, and he has been consistently against it. He was stuttery on Sunday evening, but what he was actually saying was it's too hard for refs to adjudge whether a pull down is 'deliberate' or not, especially if some players are trying it on. He's got a point in that. It is difficult, and this is where you hope the refs only award them where they are sure.

I felt the one v Tipp was very harsh. I don't think he deliberately pulled down the man. He tried to put him off his shot, and the player fell down. I don't think it was a deliberate pull down.

The foot block was just atrocious. Must have been near 5 yards before the ball hit the defender. Good job it wasn't a close game.

This would be my main issue with it as well.

[Hardy]

Does anyone know who referreed the Tipp v Limerick football match yesterday and what rule book he was using. Black carded a player who barely touched his opponent, who didn't even go to ground. A yellow card for a goalie who rugby tackled a forward and the saved a penalty and then another extremely harsh peno for a foot block. And they were only the 60 second highlights.

Absolutely nowhere near a foot block. does anyone else think that most of the problems we are complaining about re football would be resolved by going back to the old rule whereby only one player at a time is allowed to tackle an opponent. When I played and was tackling an opponent if one of my teammates came in to help out a free was almost always awarded. Going back to  this rule would be a lot easier for referees and would make the game a whole lot better to watch. It would cut out the horrible situations where a player is surrounded by 7 or 8 opponents and finds it impossible to play the ball.

There is not and never was such a rule.

[Rossfan]

[ going back to the old rule whereby only one player at a time is allowed to tackle an opponent. When I played and was tackling an opponent if one of my teammates came in to help out a free was almost always awarded. Going back to  this rule would be a lot easier for referees and would make the game a whole lot better to watch. It would cut out the horrible situations where a player is surrounded by 7 or 8 opponents and finds it impossible to play the ball.

There is not and never was such a rule.

I was trying to remember thqat one alright.
Another rule which seems to be confined to Galway is "Two turns Ref" which is regularly shouted by Herrins at games.

[lenny]

Does anyone know who referreed the Tipp v Limerick football match yesterday and what rule book he was using. Black carded a player who barely touched his opponent, who didn't even go to ground. A yellow card for a goalie who rugby tackled a forward and the saved a penalty and then another extremely harsh peno for a foot block. And they were only the 60 second highlights.

Absolutely nowhere near a foot block. does anyone else think that most of the problems we are complaining about re football would be resolved by going back to the old rule whereby only one player at a time is allowed to tackle an opponent. When I played and was tackling an opponent if one of my teammates came in to help out a free was almost always awarded. Going back to  this rule would be a lot easier for referees and would make the game a whole lot better to watch. It would cut out the horrible situations where a player is surrounded by 7 or 8 opponents and finds it impossible to play the ball.

There is not and never was such a rule.

Are you sure? When I played in the 80s and 90s it was applied in the way I've stated. I'm not sure if it was in the rule book but even if it wasn't I'm putting it forward as a suggestion to make the game (a) more enjoyable for spectators and (b) much easier to referee.

[J70]

How would that work? One man tackle doesn't stop players being surrounded and crowded.