Now that we are well into the league who are the main contenders for Sam this year? Kerry, Dublin and Cork are obvious. Tyrone need to be included given their league form but got to remember it is division 2. Kildare are average so far but I expect them to improve. Are there any supprise packages?
I can't see anyone outside those 4 teams being anywhere close.
Tyrone fear nobody except Cork maybe... havent beaten them in the Championship since when?
Quote from: CK_Redhand on March 25, 2012, 08:12:09 PM
Tyrone fear nobody except Cork maybe... havent beaten them in the Championship since when?
Don't think Tyrone, sorry but they have been well off the mark the last couple of years. Beaten well by Dublin in 2011 and 2010. They'll be there or there abouts in Ulster, but unless they get a couple of handy draws, i can't see them making an All-Ireland final.
Cork, Kerry, Dublin the rest are not up to it and that includes the Meejas favourite Kildare who are miles off!
Mayo are worth a punt at 16/1. The way the draw is looking in Connacht now means that they'd be very, very unlucky not to make the last eight by August. Flaw in the system of course, but there you are. 16/1 is value.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on March 25, 2012, 09:03:03 PM
Mayo are worth a punt at 16/1. The way the draw is looking in Connacht now means that they'd be very, very unlucky not to make the last eight by August. Flaw in the system of course, but there you are. 16/1 is value.
Mayo are nowhere near all- ireland contenders. I've a lot of friends up there and I would like to see them up there but they look like they've gone backwards this year. Last 8 I think and would require a soft draw to make the last 4.
Below those 4 obvious contenders there are a few teams that could take one or more of them out without having the ability to win the whole thing i.e. Kildare could beat Tyrone, Mayo could beat Cork.
I think Dublin and Kerry are less susceptible to being caught like this.
Kerry, Cork or Dublin. Kerry have the best XV but Cork and Dublin in particular have the stronger squads.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 25, 2012, 09:19:27 PM
Kerry, Cork or Dublin. Kerry have the best XV but Cork and Dublin in particular have the stronger squads.
Tyrone are the form team by far. All the others are showing inconsistency. Dublin look good but may not have the same hunger this year. Kerry are nowhere near the team they were a few years ago and Cork don't look good at the moment at all. Tyrone are blowing all their opposition out of the water and have some of their big guns still to come back. I think they are a really good bet at the moment for Sam and I, for one, will be sticking a few quid on them. Having said that I would love to see someone from outside those 4 teams (bar donegal) come through to win just to freshen things up.
Quote from: INDIANA on March 25, 2012, 09:09:14 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on March 25, 2012, 09:03:03 PM
Mayo are worth a punt at 16/1. The way the draw is looking in Connacht now means that they'd be very, very unlucky not to make the last eight by August. Flaw in the system of course, but there you are. 16/1 is value.
Mayo are nowhere near all- ireland contenders. I've a lot of friends up there and I would like to see them up there but they look like they've gone backwards this year. Last 8 I think and would require a soft draw to make the last 4.
Mayo at 16/1 while almost guaranteed to make the 1/4 finals tells its own story. Unless management implodes the team will be much better by then though. It might not be be obvious to an outsider but there were one or two changes for today s match that may indicate that some scales are falling from eyes.
Last year Mayo got the toughest 1/4 final draw going - AI champs Cork and still made semis. The problem with Mayo is that there is a problem beating 2 big teams in a row or losing when they are expected to win (Meath2009). The latter is the most worrying imo. A team that cannot win when expected to are not a team to put money on. I won good money on the win v Cork last year but wild horses would not have made me bet on the kerry match. Not that we were expected to beat Kerry of course. But ye know what I mean.
Even if Mayo were 100/1, the reality is betting a tenner on a win is still just giving a tenner away.
Who exactly have Tyrone beaten in DIVISION TWO???? Bar Kildare the standard is p*ss poor! Form in Div 1 might be inconsistent but it is much stronger league.
Tyrone look better than last year but then again that wouldn't be too difficult. No team replaces the calibre of players and experience Tyrone had in one season. Not even Kerry have managed that.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 25, 2012, 09:54:26 PM
Who exactly have Tyrone beaten in DIVISION TWO???? Bar Kildare the standard is p*ss poor! Form in Div 1 might be inconsistent but it is much stronger league.
Tyrone look better than last year but then again that wouldn't be too difficult. No team replaces the calibre of players and experience Tyrone had in one season. Not even Kerry have managed that.
Nobody who is a contender but try telling a Tyrone fan that!!
we can all be fairly sure mayo will not be champions this year, short a few players and all that, BUT, not many of the big fellas would really comfortable meeting mayo because Mayo seem to spring nasty surprises on teams that are sure of beating them. i reckon its between kerry,cork and maybe one more.
on the betting thing, tyrone were 33/1 in august the last time they won Sam.
Quote from: moysider on March 25, 2012, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on March 25, 2012, 09:09:14 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on March 25, 2012, 09:03:03 PM
Mayo are worth a punt at 16/1. The way the draw is looking in Connacht now means that they'd be very, very unlucky not to make the last eight by August. Flaw in the system of course, but there you are. 16/1 is value.
Mayo are nowhere near all- ireland contenders. I've a lot of friends up there and I would like to see them up there but they look like they've gone backwards this year. Last 8 I think and would require a soft draw to make the last 4.
Mayo at 16/1 while almost guaranteed to make the 1/4 finals tells its own story. Unless management implodes the team will be much better by then though. It might not be be obvious to an outsider but there were one or two changes for today s match that may indicate that some scales are falling from eyes.
Last year Mayo got the toughest 1/4 final draw going - AI champs Cork and still made semis. The problem with Mayo is that there is a problem beating 2 big teams in a row or losing when they are expected to win (Meath2009). The latter is the most worrying imo. A team that cannot win when expected to are not a team to put money on. I won good money on the win v Cork last year but wild horses would not have made me bet on the kerry match. Not that we were expected to beat Kerry of course. But ye know what I mean.
Even if Mayo were 100/1, the reality is betting a tenner on a win is still just giving a tenner away.
For me you just dont have the backs to get the job done. I think its a real weakness for you. Dublin will probably be missing 4 first choice forwards next Saturday but I doubt you'd hold our forwards in a championship game in CP.
I think you need 3-4 good underage sides to follow each other to give you the pool of players to contend for an all-ireland. Its pretty much how we did it. Unless you're kerry or killkenny where players grow on trees its the only way.
Quote from: INDIANA on March 25, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 25, 2012, 09:54:26 PM
Who exactly have Tyrone beaten in DIVISION TWO???? Bar Kildare the standard is p*ss poor! Form in Div 1 might be inconsistent but it is much stronger league.
Tyrone look better than last year but then again that wouldn't be too difficult. No team replaces the calibre of players and experience Tyrone had in one season. Not even Kerry have managed that.
Nobody who is a contender but try telling a Tyrone fan that!!
I would say Kildare are they only decent team Tyrone have beaten this year. Tyrone look to be flying but as is said it is division 2. You can only beat who is on the pitch on the day. A winning habit is a good thing but until Tyrone play one of the big 3 we will not know how much progress has been made.. I can't wait.
Quote
Mayo at 16/1 while almost guaranteed to make the 1/4 finals tells its own story.
Mayo should make the Connacht final after that it's no guarantee, lose the final & it's only round 4 maybe vs Cork or Donegal.
Quote from: INDIANA on March 25, 2012, 10:10:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on March 25, 2012, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on March 25, 2012, 09:09:14 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on March 25, 2012, 09:03:03 PM
Mayo are worth a punt at 16/1. The way the draw is looking in Connacht now means that they'd be very, very unlucky not to make the last eight by August. Flaw in the system of course, but there you are. 16/1 is value.
Mayo are nowhere near all- ireland contenders. I've a lot of friends up there and I would like to see them up there but they look like they've gone backwards this year. Last 8 I think and would require a soft draw to make the last 4.
Mayo at 16/1 while almost guaranteed to make the 1/4 finals tells its own story. Unless management implodes the team will be much better by then though. It might not be be obvious to an outsider but there were one or two changes for today s match that may indicate that some scales are falling from eyes.
Last year Mayo got the toughest 1/4 final draw going - AI champs Cork and still made semis. The problem with Mayo is that there is a problem beating 2 big teams in a row or losing when they are expected to win (Meath2009). The latter is the most worrying imo. A team that cannot win when expected to are not a team to put money on. I won good money on the win v Cork last year but wild horses would not have made me bet on the kerry match. Not that we were expected to beat Kerry of course. But ye know what I mean.
Even if Mayo were 100/1, the reality is betting a tenner on a win is still just giving a tenner away.
For me you just dont have the backs to get the job done. I think its a real weakness for you. Dublin will probably be missing 4 first choice forwards next Saturday but I doubt you'd hold our forwards in a championship game in CP.
I think you need 3-4 good underage sides to follow each other to give you the pool of players to contend for an all-ireland. Its pretty much how we did it. Unless you're kerry or killkenny where players grow on trees its the only way.
Frustratingly players grow on trees here too. But instead of being nurtured and picked they end up as windfalls. That s why Mayo football people are the way we are. We ve seen such criminal waste down the years it begs belief. I doubt any other county has as big an exclusively football population. Bigger counties like Cork and Galway are half football at best. Galway city is a big population and love the Gaeilge but is not a GAA stronghold. We re desperately underachieving in Mayo with our resources.
Quote from: EC Unique on March 25, 2012, 10:29:38 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on March 25, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 25, 2012, 09:54:26 PM
Who exactly have Tyrone beaten in DIVISION TWO???? Bar Kildare the standard is p*ss poor! Form in Div 1 might be inconsistent but it is much stronger league.
Tyrone look better than last year but then again that wouldn't be too difficult. No team replaces the calibre of players and experience Tyrone had in one season. Not even Kerry have managed that.
Nobody who is a contender but try telling a Tyrone fan that!!
I would say Kildare are they only decent team Tyrone have beaten this year. Tyrone look to be flying but as is said it is division 2. You can only beat who is on the pitch on the day. A winning habit is a good thing but until Tyrone play one of the big 3 we will not know how much progress has been made.. I can't wait.
Monaghan made Kildare look very average. And look where we're sitting.
Think you're deluded in mayo rather than underachieving! With the players you have how would you expect to do better than you did last year?
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 25, 2012, 11:04:34 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on March 25, 2012, 10:29:38 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on March 25, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 25, 2012, 09:54:26 PM
Who exactly have Tyrone beaten in DIVISION TWO???? Bar Kildare the standard is p*ss poor! Form in Div 1 might be inconsistent but it is much stronger league.
Tyrone look better than last year but then again that wouldn't be too difficult. No team replaces the calibre of players and experience Tyrone had in one season. Not even Kerry have managed that.
Nobody who is a contender but try telling a Tyrone fan that!!
I would say Kildare are they only decent team Tyrone have beaten this year. Tyrone look to be flying but as is said it is division 2. You can only beat who is on the pitch on the day. A winning habit is a good thing but until Tyrone play one of the big 3 we will not know how much progress has been made.. I can't wait.
Monaghan made Kildare look very average. And look where we're sitting.
Come business end of the year Kildare will be better opposition than Monaghan.
Quote from: INDIANA on March 25, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 25, 2012, 09:54:26 PM
Who exactly have Tyrone beaten in DIVISION TWO???? Bar Kildare the standard is p*ss poor! Form in Div 1 might be inconsistent but it is much stronger league.
Tyrone look better than last year but then again that wouldn't be too difficult. No team replaces the calibre of players and experience Tyrone had in one season. Not even Kerry have managed that.
Nobody who is a contender but try telling a Tyrone fan that!!
Get away outa that. There's few from Tyrone that are looking past May. We know we have had a good run in the league this year but that's the height of it. Yes things are looking up but considering the lack of experience that will be running through the team this year, I'd imagine it'll be a year or two before we'd consider ourself geniune contenders again and that's only if they keep developing as they are.
As far as getting to a quarter or semi-final goes then it is as much luck of the draw as anything. Down got a heck of a good draw in 2010 and got to a qaurter final before we met a quality side. Last year we drew Cork in the 4th round qualifier. So anyone of the top two divisions could end up in a quarter final.
The next thing is squad availability. Again in 2010 Kerry were missing 3-4 key players. A few weeks later and they may have beaten us. By the time we got to the final we had lost our captain and key midfielder. We were edged in the final. Ambrose kicks around 60% of his 45's. We didn't manage any in the final but Cork scored three. Last year Dublin were virtually injury free picking up Sam.
So in truth to get to a semi-final, with a lucky draw and a clean bill of health Any Division one team and many Division two teams could end up there. But almost certainly would end up there with no less than two of Dublin, Kerry & Cork. But one good game and a final against a team who have some important injuries/suspensions and you could very possibly see a champion from any one of about ten teams. Look of course Dublin, Kerry & Cork are the most likely to win but it could only take two performances where everything just clicks for those others to lift Sam.
Roscommon, we will win Connacht this year and depending on the draw we could very easily make the semi final. Who knows after that.
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 26, 2012, 11:24:51 AM
Roscommon, we will win Connacht this year and depending on the draw we could very easily make the semi final. Who knows after that.
Anyone with half a brain.
Ouch.
Don't mind him Benny.
Up Ross!
*Ros
Fekin' hell, Jinxy.
Up Rossport I meant.
Kerry, Cork or Dublin will win it. Would be amazed if Tyrone win it . They are playing well at the minute but thats in Div 2 in the League. Big difference come c'ship, I wouldn't fancy them to even win Ulster.
I suppose in the strictest definition of the word contender you would probably say Tyrone based on 2012 form where they are unbeaten in 11 games now including McKenna cup are in the top 5 or 6 contenders.
Personally at this stage of the year I'd have then at the same level as Mayo, Down, Armagh, Donegal & Kildare with Cork, Dublin and I suppose Kerry at the level above that. I'd say any of those teams could beat the others on a given day depending on lots of factors.
The Armagh lads have beaten Kerry in Tralee, Should have beaten Cork and now beaten Down all without their Cross lads. I think they're sorted out their defence big time and if they can convince Stevie McDonnell back then they could be in for a long enough summer.
They'll probably love it if we win the Div 2 title and are coming into the championship game in Neon lights with all talk of Tyrone's new young guns.
Any team going to play a first round game in Armagh need to read the signs.
(http://www.irishhistorylinks.net/pages/Troubles_Images/SniperAtWork.jpeg)
I would love nothing more then Paddy O'Rourke to lay a successful ambush of Tyrone. I doubt we'll ever see Stevie in Armagh colours again :( though a couple of our young forwards are showing well particularly Rafferty, if we can get our midfield sorted out we ill have a chance!!
For the Dubs I am interested to see whether individual players kick on from the AI win and become better with that enormous confidence boost, or whether they get a dose of 2nd season syndrome and levels drop.
I think pretty much every defender is playing slightly better than at this stage last year. Helped I think by the fact that we have 3 or 4 lads who didnt start the final who are really putting it up to the other 6.
The lads I would have thought would have been most at risk from letting success getting to their head and thus not being able to sustain their performances would have been Connolly, Macauley and Flynn. Connolly though has been superb and the gain in confidence has brought about an increased consistency. The other two I'm not sure about yet. Macauley for instance mixed brilliant play with pathetic play on Saturday (albeit no question that he's the best we have in his position, midfield being an area of relative weakness for us).
Alan Brogan has naturally dipped in form from the heights of last year. But it'd be unfair to judge him on the limited gametime he's had in 2012. I think we still lack depth in the forwards. Last year we had our starters being Plan A, then Kev Mac was Plan B. There was nothing else. That turned out to be enough, but a couple of injuries could scupper us. Maybe O'Gara will be a genuine additional option...
My prediction at the beginning of the year was we'd win the league and lose in the QFs of the championship with a relatively unfancied team (i.e. anyone bar Cork and Kerry) surprising us. I'm less convinced now about the league, but more convinced about the QF. However, if we did manage to sneak into the AI semis, I think we'd take a lot of beating.
I personally rate Kildare as a definite genuine challenger this year.
Quote from: yellowcard on March 26, 2012, 03:02:42 PM
Kerry, Cork or Dublin will win it. Would be amazed if Tyrone win it . They are playing well at the minute but thats in Div 2 in the League. Big difference come c'ship, I wouldn't fancy them to even win Ulster.
I would actually fancy Tyrone to win Ulster pretty handy to be honest, they have made it look easy over the past few years. But I actually would not want them to win it, as they have been caught on the hop on each occasion.
1. Kerry (Provincial Winners)
2. Cork
3. Dublin
4. Tyrone (Provincial Winners)
5. Kildare (Provincial Winners)
6. Mayo(Provincial Winners) / Galway / Donegal / Armagh/ Down ....................the rest of the buckos
For Armagh Rafferty and Stevenson looked very good from what I saw on Saturday night
Tyrone's lack of a quality consistent right footed free taker could cost us dearly this year
Will be interesting to see can Coney keep up the work rate and will Mugsy make this a year to remember.
Really Dublin and Kerry are the only ones you can say are already contenders, and that's more based off last year and the general direction of the teams over the last few years than anything that's happened this year.
Dublin are in front but not by all that much. Kerry and Cork share an age problem and both have the potential to bomb out of the championship much earlier than expected. The next teams are Tyrone, Kildare, Donegal and Mayo, but even then it's murky.
Really, it's way to early to christen any team, this has the potential to be a very hard fought championship and that's the most exciting part of it all.
A much more interesting question is what teams people see contending for an All-Ireland quarter-final berth outside of the established top 6-7. Certainly there's potential for a Down-esque run to the All-Ireland final with the amount of handy teams around the country right now.
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 26, 2012, 05:07:50 PM
Tyrone's lack of a quality consistent right footed free taker could cost us dearly this year
Coney did OK on Saturday night! :P
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 26, 2012, 06:00:51 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 26, 2012, 05:07:50 PM
Tyrone's lack of a quality consistent right footed free taker could cost us dearly this year
Coney did OK on Saturday night! :P
We lack a consistent free taker full stop. SON is not as consistent at the frees as he once was, so hopefully Coney hits all the frees from the right side from now on.
Quote from: Syferus on March 26, 2012, 05:30:23 PM
Really Dublin and Kerry are the only ones you can say are already contenders, and that's more based off last year and the general direction of the teams over the last few years than anything that's happened this year.
Dublin are in front but not by all that much. Kerry and Cork share an age problem and both have the potential to bomb out of the championship much earlier than expected. The next teams are Tyrone, Kildare, Donegal and Mayo, but even then it's murky.
Really, it's way to early to christen any team, this has the potential to be a very hard fought championship and that's the most exciting part of it all.
A much more interesting question is what teams people see contending for an All-Ireland quarter-final berth outside of the established top 6-7. Certainly there's potential for a Down-esque run to the All-Ireland final with the amount of handy teams around the country right now.
I really can't see Dublin winning it this year. Alot of things came together for them last year, but if they were playing Kerry in the Championship again I would put my money on Kerry to beat them. Tyrone seem to be progressing rughtly, they are in a period of transition and are fortunate enough to be able to make this change using personnel who are used to winning All Irelands, be it at College or Minor level. As mentioned, free taking is something that has been taken for granted over the past few years, Tyrone don't seem to have that player who will consistently score free after free - Mark Harte had some left peg on him. I suppose Ronan O'Neill coming through would have been an option for the right footed frees, but that will have to wait now.
It's a toss up between Kerry and Dublin but I like the cut of Tyrone's jib.
Not much to get too excited about after that.
The general consensus is then that if Tyrone find a free and 45' taker then they'll win Sam. It's a steal at 9/1
Id say 9 - 1 would be short odds for Tyrone. They will face a KIldare team mad keen to readdress their poor defeat in Croke Park and then an Armagh team capable of incredible one off feats. Win them 2 games and they play Donegal the most dangerous blanket in the game. After those challenges all of which could go either way they will win Ulster if they progress, and they still wont know where they are until they play the Dubs, Cork, or Kerry in the late summer. Tyrone are having fun this year but it has been the worst Division 2 season for many years. They are developing very well but this year is likely to be way too soon for them. There are two many old dogs still with a bark.
Impossible to tell where Tyrone are in terms of being All-Ireland challengers. Even the worst Division One teams are better than the best of Division Two.
They seem to be in a better place than this time last year.
For all the talk about Tyrone being inexperienced I can't see too many players starting their first championship game come the summer. The only one's likely to be in real contention are McCrory and McNabb. There is a freshness to the side but a lot of the guys have been about for a few years and have got a certain amount of experience.
Wouldn't say the team is much more inexperienced than the 2003 team that won the All Ireland. It included a lot of players around 22/23. Sean Cavanagh was playing midfield at 19 and I think I'm right in saying Gavin Devlin started his second only championship match in the final at centre half back. It's alright saying its a year or two to soon but the likes of the McMahons, Cavanagh, O'Neill and Mulligan are at an age were they are around their peak and another few years they may be past their best.
I'm not saying Tyrone are going to win the All Ireland but I am saying this may be as good a chance as any for getting another one and there's no point talking about a few years down the line (generally when people talk about teams in this way the time never comes). Tyrone will be well tested in the league final and first round of the championship and we will have a better indication of where they're heading after them games.
I think the biggest thing for Tyrone is to keep the key players fit for a sustained period of time - something that has been an issue in prior games. Against Dublin last year a number of the players had suffered injuries all year and it was obvious they were far from their best on the day. I think Harte is trying to protect against this this year by giving lots of guys games and showing he is only prepared to pick players who are 100%. This has resulted in the McMahons spending a good bit of time on the bench and Sean Cavanagh being eased very slowly back into the team. Its an interesting year ahead.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on March 26, 2012, 07:44:52 PM
It's a toss up between Kerry and Dublin but I like the cut of Tyrone's jib.
Not much to get too excited about after that.
Same as the 70s. But Dublin have not won 2 in a row since 76/77. They ve won like 2 since.
Quote from: ONeill on March 26, 2012, 11:01:29 PM
Impossible to tell where Tyrone are in terms of being All-Ireland challengers. Even the worst Division One teams are better than the best of Division Two.
I doubt that to be honest. Laois for example are Division 1 but I think I'd fancy Tyrone and Kildare to beat them. Couple other Division 2 sides would probably stand a good chance as well. That said bar a couple of sides the remainder of Division 1 is very strong.
Ye, ll win nothing with cubs
Galwayboy, I haven't saw ye play this year yet but is there any chance Galway will abandon their free flowing football and become more defensive minded like the rest of the teams of late.
Maybe not as bad as Donegal or the Dubs but I think ye having 6 on 6 at the back has left ye quite vulnerable.
As its only approaching April its hard to say who's gonna be the teams making the last 4 in August but I for one would have Galway, Mayo and Kildare all in the same basket as ourselves, if ye have everyone fit and hungry again.
Quote from: ONeill on March 26, 2012, 11:01:29 PM
Impossible to tell where Tyrone are in terms of being All-Ireland challengers. Even the worst Division One teams are better than the best of Division Two.
Customary pessimistic understatement there I see. :)
Watched Donegal on saturday night and they're shaping up well into their mean old horrible selves. Honestly don't think there's anything in Ulster to touch them if Murphy and McFadden are fit. Lose one of them and they're in bother. Down should make an Ulster final or there is something seriously wrong. If they met Donegal I think they'd struggle.
Tyrone and Armagh will be tight and if Armagh are up for it (which they haven't been in recent years), they could spring a surprise at home. If Tyrone do get by Armagh, Donegal will take them again even minus Kevin Cassidy who looks to be running the Gweedore Celtic Supporters club at this stage. Expect some trash talking and Armagh neutrals to get offended.
Tyrone will progress to last 8 with ease through the back door and possibly the last 4 if they get a good draw. Once that far, who knows. If they drew Kerry or someone like that the auld mind games would come back and the Kingdom would crumble (again). The Dubs or Cork would be who they would want to avoid.
Mayo will win Connacht and Kerry will win Munster.
Dubs and Kildare could be interesting as this surely has to be the big year for the Lilywhites. There isn't enough money in the country to keep McGeeney going for much longer. The troika will step in here but the Dubs will see them and McGeeney off.
No surprises then that it's Kerry, Dubs, Tyrone or Donegal, Cork, Mayo I'd have as title winners (in that order)...Let's face it, Dublin won it last year but Kerry were 6 points a better team. Slackness cost them. If they win, it could also be their last for a good while.
Very good Mystic Sheamy
(http://www.searchenginepeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/mind-reader.png)
Will Everton overcome Sunderland tonight?
Davy wants me to find out from ya
(http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/dailypost/jan2011/8/8/everton-fc-manager-david-moyes-image-7-536898672.jpg)
oh, we have more of the more mentally challenged red arses here. Apologies for the abundance of opinion...I'll post another one for yourself.
FAO Fuzzman
It's Kerry, Dubs, Tyrone or Donegal, Cork, Mayo I'd have as title winners (in that order)
Quote from: sheamy on March 27, 2012, 11:22:53 AM
Watched Donegal on saturday night and they're shaping up well into their mean old horrible selves. Honestly don't think there's anything in Ulster to touch them if Murphy and McFadden are fit. Lose one of them and they're in bother. Down should make an Ulster final or there is something seriously wrong. If they met Donegal I think they'd struggle.
Tyrone and Armagh will be tight and if Armagh are up for it (which they haven't been in recent years), they could spring a surprise at home. If Tyrone do get by Armagh, Donegal will take them again even minus Kevin Cassidy who looks to be running the Gweedore Celtic Supporters club at this stage. Expect some trash talking and Armagh neutrals to get offended.
Tyrone will progress to last 8 with ease through the back door and possibly the last 4 if they get a good draw. Once that far, who knows. If they drew Kerry or someone like that the auld mind games would come back and the Kingdom would crumble (again). The Dubs or Cork would be who they would want to avoid.
Mayo will win Connacht and Kerry will win Munster.
Dubs and Kildare could be interesting as this surely has to be the big year for the Lilywhites. There isn't enough money in the country to keep McGeeney going for much longer. The troika will step in here but the Dubs will see them and McGeeney off.
No surprises then that it's Kerry, Dubs, Tyrone or Donegal, Cork, Mayo I'd have as title winners (in that order)...Let's face it, Dublin won it last year but Kerry were 6 points a better team. Slackness cost them. If they win, it could also be their last for a good while.
You think Donegal will beat Tyrone again? Last year it was more a case of Tyrone loosing the game than Donegal winning it. Pete harte missed frees that he will never miss again, Tyrone were in cruise control but took their foot off. They will be hoping to meet Donegal this year to address a few things that happened in that game last year ;) Armagh will be Tyrone's biggest challange in Ulster this year.
I actually think it will be Tyrone's to lose this year. They have built up a great run of momentum, Dublin, while were very strong last year had a lot of balls bounce for them, Kerry will be hard to bet but Tyrone have the mental edge on them, Cork have too many injuries and Mayo are Mayo. Donegal will be a busted balloon by July. Tyrone will win it.
I know what you mean EC and it will be tight between Tyrone and Donegal. However, I don't think they took their foot off the pedal, I think Donegal took the pedal off them and Tyrone couldn't match the intensity. That might change this year all the same so you could be right. We won't know the colour of Tyrone's money until they play Armagh and Donegal. They're cruising along playing scrap teams at present with depleted squads. Young Harte is key this year as will be the attacking midfield of Murphy or Cassidy. Harte buckled under pressure last year and for that reason the jury is still out to my mind. Real class act all the same with massive potential. I actually thought Tyrone were gonna win it last year before the quarter final so shows I know nuthin anyway! I do know however if BC1 is talking you up, you should be wary coming into the Athletic Grounds ;)
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 27, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
I actually think it will be Tyrone's to lose this year. They have built up a great run of momentum, Dublin, while were very strong last year had a lot of balls bounce for them, Kerry will be hard to bet but Tyrone have the mental edge on them, Cork have too many injuries and Mayo are Mayo. Donegal will be a busted balloon by July. Tyrone will win it.
I actually think they've taken measures to ensure they won't be. They were way ahead of their current state in terms of physical development this time last year. I think they're timing it with last years efforts still in mind. Like any top eight team they'll target to begin to come good for the quarters. Although they'll see Tyrone as a massive psychological factor and won't want to lose the Ulster semi final to them.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 27, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
I actually think it will be Tyrone's to lose this year.... Tyrone will win it.
Beware of BCB1s bearing gifts! ;)
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 27, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
I actually think it will be Tyrone's to lose this year. They have built up a great run of momentum, Dublin, while were very strong last year had a lot of balls bounce for them, Kerry will be hard to bet but Tyrone have the mental edge on them, Cork have too many injuries and Mayo are Mayo. Donegal will be a busted balloon by July. Tyrone will win it.
Can you elaborate a bit more on that one please brokencrossbar ???
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 27, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
Dublin, while were very strong last year had a lot of balls bounce for them
As do the AI champions every year - we've had more than our fair share of balls not bounce for us too over the years..
Quote from: EC Unique on March 27, 2012, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sheamy on March 27, 2012, 11:22:53 AM
Watched Donegal on saturday night and they're shaping up well into their mean old horrible selves. Honestly don't think there's anything in Ulster to touch them if Murphy and McFadden are fit. Lose one of them and they're in bother. Down should make an Ulster final or there is something seriously wrong. If they met Donegal I think they'd struggle.
Tyrone and Armagh will be tight and if Armagh are up for it (which they haven't been in recent years), they could spring a surprise at home. If Tyrone do get by Armagh, Donegal will take them again even minus Kevin Cassidy who looks to be running the Gweedore Celtic Supporters club at this stage. Expect some trash talking and Armagh neutrals to get offended.
Tyrone will progress to last 8 with ease through the back door and possibly the last 4 if they get a good draw. Once that far, who knows. If they drew Kerry or someone like that the auld mind games would come back and the Kingdom would crumble (again). The Dubs or Cork would be who they would want to avoid.
Mayo will win Connacht and Kerry will win Munster.
Dubs and Kildare could be interesting as this surely has to be the big year for the Lilywhites. There isn't enough money in the country to keep McGeeney going for much longer. The troika will step in here but the Dubs will see them and McGeeney off.
No surprises then that it's Kerry, Dubs, Tyrone or Donegal, Cork, Mayo I'd have as title winners (in that order)...Let's face it, Dublin won it last year but Kerry were 6 points a better team. Slackness cost them. If they win, it could also be their last for a good while.
You think Donegal will beat Tyrone again? Last year it was more a case of Tyrone loosing the game than Donegal winning it. Pete harte missed frees that he will never miss again, Tyrone were in cruise control but took their foot off. They will be hoping to meet Donegal this year to address a few things that happened in that game last year ;) Armagh will be Tyrone's biggest challange in Ulster this year.
I was thinking the same. That game was all Tyrone until a few sucker punches came at the end. Tyrone were the better team by far. There are far better footballers on the Tyrone panel than the Donegal one.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 27, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
I actually think it will be Tyrone's to lose this year. They have built up a great run of momentum, Dublin, while were very strong last year had a lot of balls bounce for them, Kerry will be hard to bet but Tyrone have the mental edge on them, Cork have too many injuries and Mayo are Mayo. Donegal will be a busted balloon by July. Tyrone will win it.
Mayo will win as long as we don't have to play Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone, Cork, Armagh, Donegal, Down, Donegal, Kildare or London. It would also help if our matches weren't fixed for Croker. Other than that we will be grand.
You just have to laugh - Kerry 6 points a better side than Dublin, every bounce of the ball went dublins way etc etc etc!! Will yis ever put a sock in it & move on????
Thats bad enough but the greatest delusional boloxology has to be the mad optimism from Tyrone posters who have not only convinced themselves that their form in the McKenna cup and Div 2 of the league makes them dead certs for the all Ireland but wait for it......................that they really were the best team in Ulster last year and probably would have/could have/should have won the all Ireland last year!!!! Wow!
Jeez you gotta love them!!!
I think it's fair to say that key decisions and incidents at crucial times went Dublins way, and as Heffo quite rightly says this happens every year with AI champions. The point I am making is that these decisions might go the other way this year and make it harder for Dublin. Everything came together nicely for them last year and they were the best team over the term of the championship and were desrved champions, that doesn't mean they are the best team in the country this year. I reckon Tyrone will win it outright with Kerry next, then Dublin.
Quote from: INDIANA on March 25, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 25, 2012, 09:54:26 PM
Who exactly have Tyrone beaten in DIVISION TWO???? Bar Kildare the standard is p*ss poor! Form in Div 1 might be inconsistent but it is much stronger league.
Tyrone look better than last year but then again that wouldn't be too difficult. No team replaces the calibre of players and experience Tyrone had in one season. Not even Kerry have managed that.
Nobody who is a contender but try telling a Tyrone fan that!!
i wish you were right, i really do but I think tyrone are way stronger than half the teams in Div. 1. Armagh, Down, Donegal,and Laois, i'd be convinced. Mayo i'd be unsure and i think that Dublin kerry and cork are still a season away for this Tyrone .
Tyrone unproven but exciting. At best a dark horse this year. Cork for Sam. Mayo to beat Kerry in the semi. If you look at the division 1 teams down donegal and Armagh have picked some good points up. Tyrone are the 4 th best in ulster at the moment
Tyrone won't win it this year.
No way in hell.
Strength and physical dominance: Cork
Skill, athleticism and know-how: Kerry
Team work and quality marksmanship: Dublin
Guile, craft, management: Tyrone
At 9/1 it's a steal
Quote from: EC Unique on March 27, 2012, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sheamy on March 27, 2012, 11:22:53 AM
Watched Donegal on saturday night and they're shaping up well into their mean old horrible selves. Honestly don't think there's anything in Ulster to touch them if Murphy and McFadden are fit. Lose one of them and they're in bother. Down should make an Ulster final or there is something seriously wrong. If they met Donegal I think they'd struggle.
Tyrone and Armagh will be tight and if Armagh are up for it (which they haven't been in recent years), they could spring a surprise at home. If Tyrone do get by Armagh, Donegal will take them again even minus Kevin Cassidy who looks to be running the Gweedore Celtic Supporters club at this stage. Expect some trash talking and Armagh neutrals to get offended.
Tyrone will progress to last 8 with ease through the back door and possibly the last 4 if they get a good draw. Once that far, who knows. If they drew Kerry or someone like that the auld mind games would come back and the Kingdom would crumble (again). The Dubs or Cork would be who they would want to avoid.
Mayo will win Connacht and Kerry will win Munster.
Dubs and Kildare could be interesting as this surely has to be the big year for the Lilywhites. There isn't enough money in the country to keep McGeeney going for much longer. The troika will step in here but the Dubs will see them and McGeeney off.
No surprises then that it's Kerry, Dubs, Tyrone or Donegal, Cork, Mayo I'd have as title winners (in that order)...Let's face it, Dublin won it last year but Kerry were 6 points a better team. Slackness cost them. If they win, it could also be their last for a good while.
You think Donegal will beat Tyrone again? Last year it was more a case of Tyrone loosing the game than Donegal winning it. Pete harte missed frees that he will never miss again, Tyrone were in cruise control but took their foot off. They will be hoping to meet Donegal this year to address a few things that happened in that game last year ;) Armagh will be Tyrone's biggest challange in Ulster this year.
Jaysus, talk about rewriting history! Once Donegal got to grips with them after 25 mins, Tyrone kept running into crowds of players for the rest of the game, scoring a grand total of three points in the last 40 minutes. Why is it assumed that a rematch will follow the pattern of the first 25 minutes and not the remainder of the game? And yes, Tyrone missed a few scorable frees, but every team has days like that. By that logic, we should beat Dublin if we meet them again. We missed some scorable frees in the first half of last year's semi when we were on top and could have been a few more points ahead.
And I'm pretty sure if you look back, plenty of you boys were similarly mouthing off ahead of the Ulster semi last year.
Dublin, Kerry or Cork again for me. No one else comes close.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 27, 2012, 10:26:25 PM
I think it's fair to say that key decisions and incidents at crucial times went Dublins way, and as Heffo quite rightly says this happens every year with AI champions. The point I am making is that these decisions might go the other way this year and make it harder for Dublin. Everything came together nicely for them last year and they were the best team over the term of the championship and were desrved champions, that doesn't mean they are the best team in the country this year. I reckon Tyrone will win it outright with Kerry next, then Dublin.
Now seriously how do you think Tyrone will win this year?
Dublin would be joint 3rd with Tyrone behind Kerry and Cork for me, at best. BCB, I can see you're trying to sugarcoat what you're saying re last year so the dubs dont just take it badly and start a slanging match....and thats not what I'm trying to start either, but lets be honest, there was more than a few bounces of the ball went their way. Kerry were the much superior team in the final, were in complete cruise control when they gave the ball away for the goal, and were then ambushed - it was daylight robbery. The win will have brought the dubs on a lot, but they're still not at kerrys level. You gotta laugh at some of them then turning round to pour scorn on others chances!!
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2012, 08:36:54 AM
Dublin would be joint 3rd with Tyrone behind Kerry and Cork for me, at best. BCB, I can see you're trying to sugarcoat what you're saying re last year so the dubs dont just take it badly and start a slanging match....and thats not what I'm trying to start either, but lets be honest, there was more than a few bounces of the ball went their way. Kerry were the much superior team in the final, were in complete cruise control when they gave the ball away for the goal, and were then ambushed - it was daylight robbery. The win will have brought the dubs on a lot, but they're still not at kerrys level. You gotta laugh at some of them then turning round to pour scorn on others chances!!
CORK are miles of it. they struggled to get an All Ireland in recent years when they had an abundance of talent i can assure you now Cork will not be walking up the steps to lift it come september. Fermanagh havent been beat yet either nobody is talking about them????
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2012, 08:36:54 AM
Dublin would be joint 3rd with Tyrone behind Kerry and Cork for me, at best. BCB, I can see you're trying to sugarcoat what you're saying re last year so the dubs dont just take it badly and start a slanging match....and thats not what I'm trying to start either, but lets be honest, there was more than a few bounces of the ball went their way. Kerry were the much superior team in the final, were in complete cruise control when they gave the ball away for the goal, and were then ambushed - it was daylight robbery. The win will have brought the dubs on a lot, but they're still not at kerrys level. You gotta laugh at some of them then turning round to pour scorn on others chances!!
I would agree with most of this haranguerer. I think though Cork will struggle this year a bit as they have lost a few experienced heads to retirement and have a number of key men injured. Much will depend on how quickly they get them up to full fitness. Kerry are the benchmark and are a good bit ahead of the rest if they have their game heads on, the thing is I reckon that Tyrone would beat them in a one off game. I agree about last year for Dublin, they got a massive break when Declan O switched off for a split second. The took full advantage of it and probably over the season were the most consistent team but that doesn't make them the "best" team.
Quote from: J70 on March 28, 2012, 02:13:46 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on March 27, 2012, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sheamy on March 27, 2012, 11:22:53 AM
Watched Donegal on saturday night and they're shaping up well into their mean old horrible selves. Honestly don't think there's anything in Ulster to touch them if Murphy and McFadden are fit. Lose one of them and they're in bother. Down should make an Ulster final or there is something seriously wrong. If they met Donegal I think they'd struggle.
Tyrone and Armagh will be tight and if Armagh are up for it (which they haven't been in recent years), they could spring a surprise at home. If Tyrone do get by Armagh, Donegal will take them again even minus Kevin Cassidy who looks to be running the Gweedore Celtic Supporters club at this stage. Expect some trash talking and Armagh neutrals to get offended.
Tyrone will progress to last 8 with ease through the back door and possibly the last 4 if they get a good draw. Once that far, who knows. If they drew Kerry or someone like that the auld mind games would come back and the Kingdom would crumble (again). The Dubs or Cork would be who they would want to avoid.
Mayo will win Connacht and Kerry will win Munster.
Dubs and Kildare could be interesting as this surely has to be the big year for the Lilywhites. There isn't enough money in the country to keep McGeeney going for much longer. The troika will step in here but the Dubs will see them and McGeeney off.
No surprises then that it's Kerry, Dubs, Tyrone or Donegal, Cork, Mayo I'd have as title winners (in that order)...Let's face it, Dublin won it last year but Kerry were 6 points a better team. Slackness cost them. If they win, it could also be their last for a good while.
You think Donegal will beat Tyrone again? Last year it was more a case of Tyrone loosing the game than Donegal winning it. Pete harte missed frees that he will never miss again, Tyrone were in cruise control but took their foot off. They will be hoping to meet Donegal this year to address a few things that happened in that game last year ;) Armagh will be Tyrone's biggest challange in Ulster this year.
Jaysus, talk about rewriting history! Once Donegal got to grips with them after 25 mins, Tyrone kept running into crowds of players for the rest of the game, scoring a grand total of three points in the last 40 minutes. Why is it assumed that a rematch will follow the pattern of the first 25 minutes and not the remainder of the game? And yes, Tyrone missed a few scorable frees, but every team has days like that. By that logic, we should beat Dublin if we meet them again. We missed some scorable frees in the first half of last year's semi when we were on top and could have been a few more points ahead.
And I'm pretty sure if you look back, plenty of you boys were similarly mouthing off ahead of the Ulster semi last year.
Dublin, Kerry or Cork again for me. No one else comes close.
Fair enough if you think that but most will agree that Tyrone left that one behind. Like I said I really hope we can beat Armagh and play Donegal as the result and a couple of other things that happened in the game need addressed.
Tyrone v Donegal will be a great game with so many plots and sub-plots. I enjoyed that game in Clones last year from a purely tactical point better than any other. The near-decapitation of Joe McMahon certainly had a bearing on the outcome.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2012, 08:36:54 AM
Dublin would be joint 3rd with Tyrone behind Kerry and Cork for me, at best. BCB, I can see you're trying to sugarcoat what you're saying re last year so the dubs dont just take it badly and start a slanging match....and thats not what I'm trying to start either, but lets be honest, there was more than a few bounces of the ball went their way. Kerry were the much superior team in the final, were in complete cruise control when they gave the ball away for the goal, and were then ambushed - it was daylight robbery. The win will have brought the dubs on a lot, but they're still not at kerrys level. You gotta laugh at some of them then turning round to pour scorn on others chances!!
Yes but the ball didn't bounce for Dublin against Cork the previous year or against Kerry in 2007, Mayo in 2006, Armagh 2002 does that mean we were the best team them years? Kerry were behind for most of the game and had a purple patch of about 15-17 mins where they got a 4 point lead. Hardly the sign of a team in total control of a game.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 27, 2012, 10:02:15 PM
You just have to laugh - Kerry 6 points a better side than Dublin, every bounce of the ball went dublins way etc etc etc!! Will yis ever put a sock in it & move on????
Thats bad enough but the greatest delusional boloxology has to be the mad optimism from Tyrone posters who have not only convinced themselves that their form in the McKenna cup and Div 2 of the league makes them dead certs for the all Ireland but wait for it......................that they really were the best team in Ulster last year and probably would have/could have/should have won the all Ireland last year!!!! Wow!
Jeez you gotta love them!!!
Dublin win 1 All Ireland since 1995 and now there the best thing since sliced bread....Short memories as for Donegal they've been consistantly winning All Irelands for years now there really a team to fear. whole of Ireland shaking in their boots ::)
I have seen Tyrone on a few occasions this year, and there is a certain pattern to their play, reminiscent of 2005 and 2008, in that when they have had to, they have been able to play in bursts of 10-15 minutes where they completely annihilate opposition, racking up goals and points for fun. This year, their second half fitness is better than I have ever seen, bar 2003, when they were, relatively speaking, a young team that was in the habit of winning - a bit like this team.
This year there is a good mix of experience and youth and skill. They are on a 11-0 winning streak. No goals conceeded in the National league so far....
i know that there are alot of ifs and buts between now and September, but at 9-1 (if thats what the bookies are giving???), I know where my money is going...
Quote from: nothingbettertobeat on March 28, 2012, 10:48:18 AM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 27, 2012, 10:02:15 PM
You just have to laugh - Kerry 6 points a better side than Dublin, every bounce of the ball went dublins way etc etc etc!! Will yis ever put a sock in it & move on????
Thats bad enough but the greatest delusional boloxology has to be the mad optimism from Tyrone posters who have not only convinced themselves that their form in the McKenna cup and Div 2 of the league makes them dead certs for the all Ireland but wait for it......................that they really were the best team in Ulster last year and probably would have/could have/should have won the all Ireland last year!!!! Wow!
Jeez you gotta love them!!!
Dublin win 1 All Ireland since 1997 and now there the best thing since sliced bread....Short memories as for Donegal they've been consistantly winning All Irelands for years now there really a team to fear. whole of Ireland shaking in their boots ::)
It's actually '95 and no-one is saying we're the best thing since sliced bread. I am clearly saying we were the best and most consistent team in Ireland last year. I'm also clearly saying that the AI winners every year get a few breaks as we did last year.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on March 28, 2012, 10:04:17 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2012, 08:36:54 AM
Dublin would be joint 3rd with Tyrone behind Kerry and Cork for me, at best. BCB, I can see you're trying to sugarcoat what you're saying re last year so the dubs dont just take it badly and start a slanging match....and thats not what I'm trying to start either, but lets be honest, there was more than a few bounces of the ball went their way. Kerry were the much superior team in the final, were in complete cruise control when they gave the ball away for the goal, and were then ambushed - it was daylight robbery. The win will have brought the dubs on a lot, but they're still not at kerrys level. You gotta laugh at some of them then turning round to pour scorn on others chances!!
Yes but the ball didn't bounce for Dublin against Cork the previous year or against Kerry in 2007, Mayo in 2006, Armagh 2002 does that mean we were the best team them years? Kerry were behind for most of the game and had a purple patch of about 15-17 mins where they got a 4 point lead. Hardly the sign of a team in total control of a game.
I thought they always looked in control tbh. One thing is, it'll be a massive fillip to dublin to have the monkey off their backs, and winning an AI brings a team on. It'll be interesting this year.
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 11:05:45 AM
Quote from: nothingbettertobeat on March 28, 2012, 10:48:18 AM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 27, 2012, 10:02:15 PM
You just have to laugh - Kerry 6 points a better side than Dublin, every bounce of the ball went dublins way etc etc etc!! Will yis ever put a sock in it & move on????
Thats bad enough but the greatest delusional boloxology has to be the mad optimism from Tyrone posters who have not only convinced themselves that their form in the McKenna cup and Div 2 of the league makes them dead certs for the all Ireland but wait for it......................that they really were the best team in Ulster last year and probably would have/could have/should have won the all Ireland last year!!!! Wow!
Jeez you gotta love them!!!
Dublin win 1 All Ireland since 1997 and now there the best thing since sliced bread....Short memories as for Donegal they've been consistantly winning All Irelands for years now there really a team to fear. whole of Ireland shaking in their boots ::)
It's actually '95 and no-one is saying we're the best thing since sliced bread. I am clearly saying we were the best and most consistent team in Ireland last year. I'm also clearly saying that the AI winners every year get a few breaks as we did last year.
DUBLIN were the best team in the country by a mile last year - the fittest, strongest, most driven, and luckiest...and i begrudge them nothing
Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on March 28, 2012, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 11:05:45 AM
Quote from: nothingbettertobeat on March 28, 2012, 10:48:18 AM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 27, 2012, 10:02:15 PM
You just have to laugh - Kerry 6 points a better side than Dublin, every bounce of the ball went dublins way etc etc etc!! Will yis ever put a sock in it & move on????
Thats bad enough but the greatest delusional boloxology has to be the mad optimism from Tyrone posters who have not only convinced themselves that their form in the McKenna cup and Div 2 of the league makes them dead certs for the all Ireland but wait for it......................that they really were the best team in Ulster last year and probably would have/could have/should have won the all Ireland last year!!!! Wow!
Jeez you gotta love them!!!
Dublin win 1 All Ireland since 1997 and now there the best thing since sliced bread....Short memories as for Donegal they've been consistantly winning All Irelands for years now there really a team to fear. whole of Ireland shaking in their boots ::)
It's actually '95 and no-one is saying we're the best thing since sliced bread. I am clearly saying we were the best and most consistent team in Ireland last year. I'm also clearly saying that the AI winners every year get a few breaks as we did last year.
DUBLIN were the best team in the country by a mile last year - the fittest, strongest, most driven, and luckiest...and i begrudge them nothing
Dublin were the best team in Ireland and I was hoping they'd win the All-Ireland, I now begrudge the lucky b**tards for it :P
As generous as ever Dinny!!
Quote from: Declan on March 28, 2012, 12:08:27 PM
As generous as ever Dinny!!
;)
On a serious note I don't think the posters outside of Leinster are fully aware of the talent coming through the Dublin ranks and how Dublin will only get stronger. We might now be talking about a Big 3 but that Big 3 will soon be a Big 1, Dublin have the resources, the players and the structures to dominate the Gaelic Football landscape for a long time. A lot of hard work over the last decade is going to bear a lot of fruit.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2012, 12:19:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 28, 2012, 12:08:27 PM
As generous as ever Dinny!!
;)
On a serious note I don't think the posters outside of Leinster are fully aware of the talent coming through the Dublin ranks and how Dublin will only get stronger. We might now be talking about a Big 3 but that Big 3 will soon be a Big 1, Dublin have the resources, the players and the structures to dominate the Gaelic Football landscape for a long time. A lot of hard work over the last decade is going to bear a lot of fruit.
I just cannot see that happening. There have been a load of 'out of the ashes...' moments for Dublin this last 10 years, and they have very little to show for it. I wouldn't take away from last years achievement - they were brilliant. Recent history has shown how difficult it is to retain Sam. A Kildare fan might point to several instances last year of pure bad luck, and poor refereeing, a Tyrone fan would definitely point to a resurgence in form for the year ahead, a kerry fan will talk shite at you all day, and cork would have something to say too. I know the hard work that Dublin have put in, this last few years, the resources are enviable but it will not be a Big 1 situation anytime soon
Surely Down should be mentioned in the top 5 or 6 counties at present. Theya re sustaining themselves in division one and beat the all ireland champions couple of weeks ago. they cant be that far away...
Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on March 28, 2012, 12:30:07 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2012, 12:19:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 28, 2012, 12:08:27 PM
As generous as ever Dinny!!
;)
On a serious note I don't think the posters outside of Leinster are fully aware of the talent coming through the Dublin ranks and how Dublin will only get stronger. We might now be talking about a Big 3 but that Big 3 will soon be a Big 1, Dublin have the resources, the players and the structures to dominate the Gaelic Football landscape for a long time. A lot of hard work over the last decade is going to bear a lot of fruit.
I just cannot see that happening. There have been a load of 'out of the ashes...' moments for Dublin this last 10 years, and they have very little to show for it. I wouldn't take away from last years achievement - they were brilliant. Recent history has shown how difficult it is to retain Sam. A Kildare fan might point to several instances last year of pure bad luck, and poor refereeing, a Tyrone fan would definitely point to a resurgence in form for the year ahead, a kerry fan will talk shite at you all day, and cork would have something to say too. I know the hard work that Dublin have put in, this last few years, the resources are enviable but it will not be a Big 1 situation anytime soon
Having seen their minor and u21 teams over the last few years and the belief An AI will have given them I can't see any other outcome. Pure speculation of course.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2012, 12:40:06 PM
Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on March 28, 2012, 12:30:07 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2012, 12:19:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 28, 2012, 12:08:27 PM
As generous as ever Dinny!!
;)
On a serious note I don't think the posters outside of Leinster are fully aware of the talent coming through the Dublin ranks and how Dublin will only get stronger. We might now be talking about a Big 3 but that Big 3 will soon be a Big 1, Dublin have the resources, the players and the structures to dominate the Gaelic Football landscape for a long time. A lot of hard work over the last decade is going to bear a lot of fruit.
I just cannot see that happening. There have been a load of 'out of the ashes...' moments for Dublin this last 10 years, and they have very little to show for it. I wouldn't take away from last years achievement - they were brilliant. Recent history has shown how difficult it is to retain Sam. A Kildare fan might point to several instances last year of pure bad luck, and poor refereeing, a Tyrone fan would definitely point to a resurgence in form for the year ahead, a kerry fan will talk shite at you all day, and cork would have something to say too. I know the hard work that Dublin have put in, this last few years, the resources are enviable but it will not be a Big 1 situation anytime soon
Having seen their minor and u21 teams over the last few years and the belief An AI will have given them I can't see any other outcome. Pure speculation of course.
pure speculation, but fair comment and quare craic
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2012, 12:40:06 PM
Having seen their minor and u21 teams over the last few years and the belief An AI will have given them I can't see any other outcome. Pure speculation of course.
How could they not be successful? With the amount of money gone in and the facilities they have it would be almost impossible to fail.
They're buying success, the GAA in their pursuit of extra revenue has put the interests of Dublin above the rest of the country. Hurling is struggling in many counties, these counties could have done with even a fraction of the resources Dublin were getting.
The GAA is supposed to be about amateur players competing on an equal footing, this hasn't been happening and the thing is nothings been said about it.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 28, 2012, 01:02:04 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2012, 12:40:06 PM
Having seen their minor and u21 teams over the last few years and the belief An AI will have given them I can't see any other outcome. Pure speculation of course.
How could they not be successful? With the amount of money gone in and the facilities they have it would be almost impossible to fail.
They're buying success, the GAA in their pursuit of extra revenue has put the interests of Dublin above the rest of the country. Hurling is struggling in many counties, these counties could have done with even a fraction of the resources Dublin were getting.
The GAA is supposed to be about amateur players competing on an equal footing, this hasn't been happening and the thing is nothings been said about it.
How could we not be successful?
Firstly instead of questioning why Dublin secured the funding they did, perhaps posters should ask why their own county didn't get it or indeed apply for it - Dublin secured the funding on the basis of a very good application - there are huge swathes of Dublin that are soccer and GAA heartlands and are GAA wastelands. Take Clondalkin for example - population 60,000 - 22 Soccer clubs and one GAA Club.
Dublin is a genuine dual county - it's football weeks 1 & 3, Hurling weeks 2 & 4 - your pitch is off on week 1 then kids who mightn't play Hurling get one game per month - result we lose more kids to rival codes who can offer a game per week.
The challenges any major urban centre has as opposed to a rural area when trying to promote GAA.
Finally, since 2005 Dublin have secured €6.8m in non-GAA grants. The Ulster Council has secured £120m in the same period. So a little realism please.
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 02:06:16 PM
Finally, since 2005 Dublin have secured €6.8m in non-GAA grants. The Ulster Council has secured £120m in the same period. So a little realism please.
That's 90 years of back payments
Well said Heffo.
One thing often conveniently forgotten is the hard voluntary work gone into Dublin GAA in the last decade or so.............. especially in the hurling. As alluded to , it was a small group of Dublin hurling fanatics that set in train our revival that has taken I think 12 years or so to come to fruition and of which a tiny % is down to money.
Don' t forget Dublin has around 85/90 GAA clubs and that this is the measure that we should be judged on and not the 1.1 million or so in the county , the majority who have minimal (at best) interest in GAA.
Quote from: Canalman on March 28, 2012, 02:13:44 PM
Well said Heffo.
One thing often conveniently forgotten is the hard voluntary work gone into Dublin GAA in the last decade or so.............. especially in the hurling. As alluded to , it was a small group of Dublin hurling fanatics that set in train our revival that has taken I think 12 years or so to come to fruition and of which a tiny % is down to money.
Don' t forget Dublin has around 85/90 GAA clubs and that this is the measure that we should be judged on and not the 1.1 million or so in the county , the majority who have minimal (at best) interest in GAA.
They should be judged on neither of those 2 statistics, player numbers are what count and Dublin's are huge!!! Ballyboden St. Enda's field in upwards of 70 odd teams throughout the Club including 5 adult football teams . . . should that be judged as one club?!
Let's not kid ourselves here Dublin have hugely underachieved in the past but it looks like they are beginning to get their act together. In my opinion they aren't a better team than Kerry at present but they beat them when it counts. They have the trophy and that's all that matters.
Tyrone look like they are poised for a second coming but the jury is still well and truly out on that one and this year will tell a tale. Donegal won't reach the heights they did previously and Mayo aren't going to cut it either. Cork, Kerry, Tyrone and Dublin are the top 4 at present!
Quote from: screenexile on March 28, 2012, 03:01:48 PM
Quote from: Canalman on March 28, 2012, 02:13:44 PM
Well said Heffo.
One thing often conveniently forgotten is the hard voluntary work gone into Dublin GAA in the last decade or so.............. especially in the hurling. As alluded to , it was a small group of Dublin hurling fanatics that set in train our revival that has taken I think 12 years or so to come to fruition and of which a tiny % is down to money.
Don' t forget Dublin has around 85/90 GAA clubs and that this is the measure that we should be judged on and not the 1.1 million or so in the county , the majority who have minimal (at best) interest in GAA.
They should be judged on neither of those 2 statistics, player numbers are what count and Dublin's are huge!!! Ballyboden St. Enda's field in upwards of 70 odd teams throughout the Club including 5 adult football teams . . . should that be judged as one club?!
Let's not kid ourselves here Dublin have hugely underachieved in the past but it looks like they are beginning to get their act together. In my opinion they aren't a better team than Kerry at present but they beat them when it counts. They have the trophy and that's all that matters.
Tyrone look like they are poised for a second coming but the jury is still well and truly out on that one and this year will tell a tale. Donegal won't reach the heights they did previously and Mayo aren't going to cut it either. Cork, Kerry, Tyrone and Dublin are the top 4 at present!
Not disagreeing with you there too much but have to pull you up on the well trotted out Aunt Sally argument of always quoting BBSE.
For every BBSE, Kilmacud, etc there are plenty of small adult only clubs such as Starlights, Portobello, Civil Service, AIB, Bank of Ireland, Rosmini etc. In addition plenty of clubs struggling to field teams.
We in Dublin do have advantages , but not to the extent that is often alleged. The problems the GAA encounter here in Dublin and in all the major towns and cities are too often glossed over.
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 02:06:16 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 28, 2012, 01:02:04 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2012, 12:40:06 PM
Having seen their minor and u21 teams over the last few years and the belief An AI will have given them I can't see any other outcome. Pure speculation of course.
How could they not be successful? With the amount of money gone in and the facilities they have it would be almost impossible to fail.
They're buying success, the GAA in their pursuit of extra revenue has put the interests of Dublin above the rest of the country. Hurling is struggling in many counties, these counties could have done with even a fraction of the resources Dublin were getting.
The GAA is supposed to be about amateur players competing on an equal footing, this hasn't been happening and the thing is nothings been said about it.
How could we not be successful?
Firstly instead of questioning why Dublin secured the funding they did, perhaps posters should ask why their own county didn't get it or indeed apply for it - Dublin secured the funding on the basis of a very good application - there are huge swathes of Dublin that are soccer and GAA heartlands and are GAA wastelands. Take Clondalkin for example - population 60,000 - 22 Soccer clubs and one GAA Club.
Dublin is a genuine dual county - it's football weeks 1 & 3, Hurling weeks 2 & 4 - your pitch is off on week 1 then kids who mightn't play Hurling get one game per month - result we lose more kids to rival codes who can offer a game per week.
The challenges any major urban centre has as opposed to a rural area when trying to promote GAA.
Finally, since 2005 Dublin have secured €6.8m in non-GAA grants. The Ulster Council has secured £120m in the same period. So a little realism please.
All Dublin ever do when this subject is brought up is to try and deflect attention elsewhere. Why didn't other county boards do this? Look at the money others are getting.
The truth is if any other county board went to GAA HQ with this, they would have been laughed out of the room. The powers that be saw this as mutually beneficial however.
We need to bring in the Duiblin crowds and if they have a strong hurling team aswell it can only help us they thought. Maybe they could have hurling and football double headers in Croke Park during the league even though Parnell Park is Dublins home ground apparently. ::)
So you can deflect all you want but the facts are Dublin received millions to guarantee them success. You've bought underage and senior All-Irelands, this needs to be highlighted. It's against the very ethos of the GAA. Give any county 7 million and they'll start winning too.
Quote from: Canalman on March 28, 2012, 02:13:44 PM
a tiny % is down to money.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: screenexile on March 28, 2012, 03:01:48 PM
Tyrone look like they are poised for a second coming but the jury is still well and truly out on that one and this year will tell a tale. Donegal won't reach the heights they did previously and Mayo aren't going to cut it either. Cork, Kerry, Tyrone and Dublin are the top 4 at present!
Shouldn't that be a fourth coming?? :P
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 28, 2012, 03:27:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 02:06:16 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 28, 2012, 01:02:04 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2012, 12:40:06 PM
Having seen their minor and u21 teams over the last few years and the belief An AI will have given them I can't see any other outcome. Pure speculation of course.
How could they not be successful? With the amount of money gone in and the facilities they have it would be almost impossible to fail.
They're buying success, the GAA in their pursuit of extra revenue has put the interests of Dublin above the rest of the country. Hurling is struggling in many counties, these counties could have done with even a fraction of the resources Dublin were getting.
The GAA is supposed to be about amateur players competing on an equal footing, this hasn't been happening and the thing is nothings been said about it.
How could we not be successful?
Firstly instead of questioning why Dublin secured the funding they did, perhaps posters should ask why their own county didn't get it or indeed apply for it - Dublin secured the funding on the basis of a very good application - there are huge swathes of Dublin that are soccer and GAA heartlands and are GAA wastelands. Take Clondalkin for example - population 60,000 - 22 Soccer clubs and one GAA Club.
Dublin is a genuine dual county - it's football weeks 1 & 3, Hurling weeks 2 & 4 - your pitch is off on week 1 then kids who mightn't play Hurling get one game per month - result we lose more kids to rival codes who can offer a game per week.
The challenges any major urban centre has as opposed to a rural area when trying to promote GAA.
Finally, since 2005 Dublin have secured €6.8m in non-GAA grants. The Ulster Council has secured £120m in the same period. So a little realism please.
All Dublin ever do when this subject is brought up is to try and deflect attention elsewhere. Why didn't other county boards do this? Look at the money others are getting.
The truth is if any other county board went to GAA HQ with this, they would have been laughed out of the room. The powers that be saw this as mutually beneficial however.
We need to bring in the Duiblin crowds and if they have a strong hurling team aswell it can only help us they thought. Maybe they could have hurling and football double headers in Croke Park during the league even though Parnell Park is Dublins home ground apparently. ::)
So you can deflect all you want but the facts are Dublin received millions to guarantee them success. You've bought underage and senior All-Irelands, this needs to be highlighted. It's against the very ethos of the GAA. Give any county 7 million and they'll start winning too.
No deflection whatsoever here simply an attempt to clear up the downright lies and misinformation you're spouting.
Why didn't other county boards do this? You'd have to ask them but all too often counties chase short term success and clubs and delegates and clubs are too happy to allow well meaning but incapable people fill the top tables of their County Boards.
It's a nonsense to suggest an ambitious county with a well thought out strategic plan who applied for grants of this nature on a pro-rata basis would be laughed out of it - in the same way that each capital grant application would be judged on it's merits, so would an application like this.
I would imagine that HQ want a strong Dublin Hurling team as indeed they'd like a strong Hurling team from every county - not sure where you're going with that - anyway the grants 'Duiblin' received were from the Irish Sports council - not Croke Park - you did know that didn't you?
Dublin received millions to guarantee success - as I alluded to, only a fraction of what the Ulster Council got - what did they do with that money? Spend it on magic beans?
Dublin bought underage and senior All-Irelands - The grants scheme you mentioned is a dedicated scheme where by a full or part time coach in some Dublin clubs worked with schools and Nurseries/Academy's primarily with Children from five years of age up to 7/8. I'm no mathematician, but the scheme started in 2005, Dublin won an U21 in 2010 and a Senior AI in 2011 - I didn't see too many 12 year olds on either team - were there many that I missed? Did they have that big an influence that it could be deemed that the coaching they received from 5 years of age (in 2005) up to 7/8 followed by voluntary coaching thereafter would deem Dublin as having 'bought' their AI's?
I'm all ears...
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 03:42:47 PM
No deflection whatsoever here simply an attempt to clear up the downright lies and misinformation you're spouting.
Why didn't other county boards do this? You'd have to ask them but all too often counties chase short term success and clubs and delegates and clubs are too happy to allow well meaning but incapable people fill the top tables of their County Boards.
It's a nonsense to suggest an ambitious county with a well thought out strategic plan who applied for grants of this nature on a pro-rata basis would be laughed out of it - in the same way that each capital grant application would be judged on it's merits, so would an application like this.
I would imagine that HQ want a strong Dublin Hurling team as indeed they'd like a strong Hurling team from every county - not sure where you're going with that - anyway the grants 'Duiblin' received were from the Irish Sports council - not Croke Park - you did know that didn't you?
Dublin received millions to guarantee success - as I alluded to, only a fraction of what the Ulster Council got - what did they do with that money? Spend it on magic beans?
Dublin bought underage and senior All-Irelands - The grants scheme you mentioned is a dedicated scheme where by a full or part time coach in some Dublin clubs worked with schools and Nurseries/Academy's primarily with Children from five years of age up to 7/8. I'm no mathematician, but the scheme started in 2005, Dublin won an U21 in 2010 and a Senior AI in 2011 - I didn't see too many 12 year olds on either team - were there many that I missed? Did they have that big an influence that it could be deemed that the coaching they received from 5 years of age (in 2005) up to 7/8 followed by voluntary coaching thereafter would deem Dublin as having 'bought' their AI's?
I'm all ears...
You think they spent the 7 million on coaching 5 year olds? Are you joking? Every club has a games promotion officer.
The money has to go through HQ, without their approval Dublin would have received nothing.
The GAA wants Dublin to be successful because it suits them, they have done everything to support them to the detriment of other counties. This is fact!
The sports council provide a lot of the grants but also the GAA and the leinster council have provided costs.
Let's not forget who was the Taoiseach of the day. You think an other county would have got approval for this? Really?
As I said give any other county this kind of money and they'd be successful too or you can go on trying to fool everyone that receiving 1 million per year had very little to do with this new found success.
Laughable.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 28, 2012, 04:12:47 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 03:42:47 PM
No deflection whatsoever here simply an attempt to clear up the downright lies and misinformation you're spouting.
Why didn't other county boards do this? You'd have to ask them but all too often counties chase short term success and clubs and delegates and clubs are too happy to allow well meaning but incapable people fill the top tables of their County Boards.
It's a nonsense to suggest an ambitious county with a well thought out strategic plan who applied for grants of this nature on a pro-rata basis would be laughed out of it - in the same way that each capital grant application would be judged on it's merits, so would an application like this.
I would imagine that HQ want a strong Dublin Hurling team as indeed they'd like a strong Hurling team from every county - not sure where you're going with that - anyway the grants 'Duiblin' received were from the Irish Sports council - not Croke Park - you did know that didn't you?
Dublin received millions to guarantee success - as I alluded to, only a fraction of what the Ulster Council got - what did they do with that money? Spend it on magic beans?
Dublin bought underage and senior All-Irelands - The grants scheme you mentioned is a dedicated scheme where by a full or part time coach in some Dublin clubs worked with schools and Nurseries/Academy's primarily with Children from five years of age up to 7/8. I'm no mathematician, but the scheme started in 2005, Dublin won an U21 in 2010 and a Senior AI in 2011 - I didn't see too many 12 year olds on either team - were there many that I missed? Did they have that big an influence that it could be deemed that the coaching they received from 5 years of age (in 2005) up to 7/8 followed by voluntary coaching thereafter would deem Dublin as having 'bought' their AI's?
I'm all ears...
You think they spent the 7 million on coaching 5 year olds? Are you joking? Every club has a games promotion officer.
The money has to go through HQ, without their approval Dublin would have received nothing.
The GAA wants Dublin to be successful because it suits them, they have done everything to support them to the detriment of other counties. This is fact!
The sports council provide a lot of the grants but also the GAA and the leinster council have provided costs.
Let's not forget who was the Taoiseach of the day. You think an other county would have got approval for this? Really?
As I said give any other county this kind of money and they'd be successful too or you can go on trying to fool everyone that receiving 1 million per year had very little to do with this new found success.
Laughable.
Again more misinformation.
Every club does not have a GPO - some have none, some share with other clubs and have them for two days a week.
Where are you claiming the grants went so? It's all itemised - the clubs who have a GPO pay half the cost and the DCB pay half the cost. Anything else went on funding new startup clubs in 'new' areas like Adamstown, Tyrrelstown etc - nothing was spent on development squads or adult level from this grant.
The Irish sports council also allocated money to the GAA centrally to invest in grassroots and Hurling development so you're incorrect again in saying other counties would've been laughed out.
You still haven't answered where the £120 went in the same period in Ulster
The £120 went on tea and sandwiches for the stewards I believe. Receipts were submitted.
Quote from: sheamy on March 27, 2012, 12:47:35 PM
FAO Fuzzman
It's Kerry, Dubs, Tyrone or Donegal, Cork, Mayo I'd have as title winners (in that order)
sheamy, what about Kildare? I think Galway will win Connacht this year myself..
I fancy Roscommon for Connacht.
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 04:26:41 PM
Again more misinformation.
Every club does not have a GPO - some have none, some share with other clubs and have them for two days a week.
Where are you claiming the grants went so? It's all itemised - the clubs who have a GPO pay half the cost and the DCB pay half the cost. Anything else went on funding new startup clubs in 'new' areas like Adamstown, Tyrrelstown etc - nothing was spent on development squads or adult level from this grant.
The Irish sports council also allocated money to the GAA centrally to invest in grassroots and Hurling development so you're incorrect again in saying other counties would've been laughed out.
You still haven't answered where the £120 went in the same period in Ulster
The grants went on a lot of things which I think you are letting on not to know about. I have it on good authority that some of the money went to places not specified.
Also these grants freed up cash to go elsewhere, that definitely has improved some senior teams.
Not only have these grants assisted Dublin now but it will long in to the future. They are not competing on a level playing field with the rest of the country. The scheme wouldn't have taken off if one recently disgraced man wasn't about to see it into fruition.
I don't have a clue where the £120 went to, if Ulster were a single team it might matter.
QuoteAs I said give any other county this kind of money and they'd be successful too or you can go on trying to fool everyone that receiving 1 million per year had very little to do with this new found success.
Dublin has more members, players etc than other places. Of course they received more money. Are you saying that they received a disproportionate amount of money?
QuoteLaughable.
Quite.
Quoteif Ulster were a single team it might matter.
This is a more relevant point. Dublin will have to cease to be a single team at some stage.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 28, 2012, 05:00:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 04:26:41 PM
Again more misinformation.
Every club does not have a GPO - some have none, some share with other clubs and have them for two days a week.
Where are you claiming the grants went so? It's all itemised - the clubs who have a GPO pay half the cost and the DCB pay half the cost. Anything else went on funding new startup clubs in 'new' areas like Adamstown, Tyrrelstown etc - nothing was spent on development squads or adult level from this grant.
The Irish sports council also allocated money to the GAA centrally to invest in grassroots and Hurling development so you're incorrect again in saying other counties would've been laughed out.
You still haven't answered where the £120 went in the same period in Ulster
The grants went on a lot of things which I think you are letting on not to know about. I have it on good authority that some of the money went to places not specified.
Also these grants freed up cash to go elsewhere, that definitely has improved some senior teams.
Not only have these grants assisted Dublin now but it will long in to the future. They are not competing on a level playing field with the rest of the country. The scheme wouldn't have taken off if one recently disgraced man wasn't about to see it into fruition.
I don't have a clue where the £120 went to, if Ulster were a single team it might matter.
You're good authority is bollo* - all that money is accounted for as stated.
The grants didn't free up money to go elsewhere - the GPO's weren't in place nor would they have been funded had the grants not been in place.
Perhaps you should look into where the £120m in Ulster went - it's a far greater sum than Dublin got.
Get your facts straight and stop talking shi*e.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2012, 05:02:25 PM
QuoteAs I said give any other county this kind of money and they'd be successful too or you can go on trying to fool everyone that receiving 1 million per year had very little to do with this new found success.
Dublin has more members, players etc than other places. Of course they received more money. Are you saying that they received a disproportionate amount of money?
QuoteLaughable.
Quite.
Quoteif Ulster were a single team it might matter.
This is a more relevant point. Dublin will have to cease to be a single team at some stage.
Received a disproportionate amount of money? That would mean other counties got money from this scheme also. This scheme meant Dublin 7 million, everyone else 0.
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 28, 2012, 05:00:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 04:26:41 PM
Again more misinformation.
Every club does not have a GPO - some have none, some share with other clubs and have them for two days a week.
Where are you claiming the grants went so? It's all itemised - the clubs who have a GPO pay half the cost and the DCB pay half the cost. Anything else went on funding new startup clubs in 'new' areas like Adamstown, Tyrrelstown etc - nothing was spent on development squads or adult level from this grant.
The Irish sports council also allocated money to the GAA centrally to invest in grassroots and Hurling development so you're incorrect again in saying other counties would've been laughed out.
You still haven't answered where the £120 went in the same period in Ulster
The grants went on a lot of things which I think you are letting on not to know about. I have it on good authority that some of the money went to places not specified.
Also these grants freed up cash to go elsewhere, that definitely has improved some senior teams.
Not only have these grants assisted Dublin now but it will long in to the future. They are not competing on a level playing field with the rest of the country. The scheme wouldn't have taken off if one recently disgraced man wasn't about to see it into fruition.
I don't have a clue where the £120 went to, if Ulster were a single team it might matter.
You're good authority is bollo* - all that money is accounted for as stated.
The grants didn't free up money to go elsewhere - the GPO's weren't in place nor would they have been funded had the grants not been in place.
Perhaps you should look into where the £120m in Ulster went - it's a far greater sum than Dublin got.
Get your facts straight and stop talking shi*e.
Deny, deny, deny. Sounding like Bertie.
Oh yes lets go with the story that Dublin just magically improved their standard of hurling in a couple of years instead. Dublins volunteers are so far superior to the volunteers around the country that they improved a county from also rans to All-Ireland contenders in no time.
The money received is just coincidence is it?
Cop onto yourself, you're fooling nobody.
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on March 27, 2012, 06:11:04 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 27, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
I actually think it will be Tyrone's to lose this year. They have built up a great run of momentum, Dublin, while were very strong last year had a lot of balls bounce for them, Kerry will be hard to bet but Tyrone have the mental edge on them, Cork have too many injuries and Mayo are Mayo. Donegal will be a busted balloon by July. Tyrone will win it.
Can you elaborate a bit more on that one please brokencrossbar ???
Talking about a lot of bouncing balls, the unpunished double hop by Kevin McMannaman with a couple of minutes to go which led to a 2 point swing was enough on its own to hand the Dubs Sam.
Great to see Tyrone wans losing the run of themselves again. Tyrone are currently Championship fit while others are only beginning to approach that level, I'd take Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Kildare all to beat them if they met in the last 8, suppose law of averages leaves them a decent chance of progressing to the semis.
I'm going to back Kildare to finally get a bit of luck and win Sam. I'd agree Dublin deserved their luck last year, they might find Refs not so accommodating this year (a la Brian White in 2003 for Armagh and thon Longford bollix for every Armagh game post 2002).
Quote from: bennydorano on March 28, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
Great to see Tyrone wans losing the run of themselves again. Tyrone are currently Championship fit while others are only beginning to approach that level, I'd take Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Kildare all to beat them if they met in the last 8, suppose law of averages leaves them a decent chance of progressing to the semis.
I'm going to back Kildare to finally get a bit of luck and win Sam. I'd agree Dublin deserved their luck last year, they might find Refs not so accommodating this year (a la Brian White in 2003 for Armagh and thon Longford bollix for every Armagh game post 2002).
You will see its actually not the Tyrone ones who are losing the run of it. How do any of us know the level of fitness a team has? Is there a wee machine where we can see a wee bar graph to show Tyrone are 98% at Championship fitness level whereas the 4 you mentioned are only at 92%? One thing for sure is that the Tyrone panel is littered with individual talent. The new players coming through have all won All Irelands before, and are now being integrated into the system MH employs. The one thing every Tyrone fan wanted over the past few years was for the younger generation to gain the experience of Senior football to see where they lay, and currently its looking good. On top of the talent, there is pace to burn in every line, something which was amiss the last few years. Its a shame that Ronan O'Neill is out, but going forward this Tyrone team could very well reach the top. This year may be a summer or two too soon though. I personally think Cork will come good, then again maybe the fact that alot of their key players are pushing on is finally showing come game time. Dublin will be thereabouts, but I just feel that they are a solid team that will not put the fear of god into anyone come the business end of the Championship. There is a lot of talk about Kerry this year going by the League, but am I the only one who looks at the Kerry team and sees a team not as strong as 3/4/5 years ago. I know Martin McHugh would disagree, the man must have a serious boner for Kerry as he was spouting the other week that Kerry have 5 of the best forwards to ever play Gaelic football.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 28, 2012, 05:33:49 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 28, 2012, 05:00:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 04:26:41 PM
Again more misinformation.
Every club does not have a GPO - some have none, some share with other clubs and have them for two days a week.
Where are you claiming the grants went so? It's all itemised - the clubs who have a GPO pay half the cost and the DCB pay half the cost. Anything else went on funding new startup clubs in 'new' areas like Adamstown, Tyrrelstown etc - nothing was spent on development squads or adult level from this grant.
The Irish sports council also allocated money to the GAA centrally to invest in grassroots and Hurling development so you're incorrect again in saying other counties would've been laughed out.
You still haven't answered where the £120 went in the same period in Ulster
The grants went on a lot of things which I think you are letting on not to know about. I have it on good authority that some of the money went to places not specified.
Also these grants freed up cash to go elsewhere, that definitely has improved some senior teams.
Not only have these grants assisted Dublin now but it will long in to the future. They are not competing on a level playing field with the rest of the country. The scheme wouldn't have taken off if one recently disgraced man wasn't about to see it into fruition.
I don't have a clue where the £120 went to, if Ulster were a single team it might matter.
You're good authority is bollo* - all that money is accounted for as stated.
The grants didn't free up money to go elsewhere - the GPO's weren't in place nor would they have been funded had the grants not been in place.
Perhaps you should look into where the £120m in Ulster went - it's a far greater sum than Dublin got.
Get your facts straight and stop talking shi*e.
Deny, deny, deny. Sounding like Bertie.
Oh yes lets go with the story that Dublin just magically improved their standard of hurling in a couple of years instead. Dublins volunteers are so far superior to the volunteers around the country that they improved a county from also rans to All-Ireland contenders in no time.
The money received is just coincidence is it?
Cop onto yourself, you're fooling nobody.
I'm dealing in facts. The improvement in Dublin's hurling was long signposted from winning Leinster at underage from the mid-00's to combining colleges and winning titles at that level.
Dublin's volunteers are no better than anyone else's it just happens that the strategic plan organised them better than most.
Please explicitly state how money received from 2005 translated into Senior success.
No wonder we're useless, the Dubs are taking all our money.
Heffo - I don't know why you bother your arse engaging in discussion with t*ts like Don't Matter. Anyone that needs to state something 'is fact' or ' I have it on good authority' is so obviously talking through their ring of Kerry that they should most definitely be ignored and if not ignored clearly ridiculed!
Up the Dubs and our millions and millions of dodgy dosh!!! ;D
Quote from: Jinxy on March 28, 2012, 09:05:31 PM
No wonder we're useless, the Dubs are taking all our money.
Ah Jinxy, I'm sure you'll find the Hyde's stand a very comfortable white elephant when you're arriving for a hyding by our prodigious stream of underage talent next March, the Dubs aren't the only one good at this embezzling craic.
Quote from: bennydorano on March 28, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
Great to see Tyrone wans losing the run of themselves again. Tyrone are currently Championship fit while others are only beginning to approach that level, I'd take Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Kildare all to beat them if they met in the last 8, suppose law of averages leaves them a decent chance of progressing to the semis.
I'm going to back Kildare to finally get a bit of luck and win Sam. I'd agree Dublin deserved their luck last year, they might find Refs not so accommodating this year (a la Brian White in 2003 for Armagh and thon Longford bollix for every Armagh game post 2002).
Your fitness point is nonsense. Tyrone train two nights a week and do a couple in the gym - I'm pretty sure this is no more than most counties at this stage of the year. I would imagine they are around the same level as a lot of teams. They are ahead of previous years when only trained one night for a lot of the year which lead to Tyrone struggling in the league.
I'm not sure how anyone can tip Kildare for the All Ireland. Have they ever actually won a big match under McGeeney or beaten a big team? I don't see them being any better than other years. They blew their best chance to get to an All Ireland final when they got beat by Down.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 28, 2012, 10:27:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 28, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
Great to see Tyrone wans losing the run of themselves again. Tyrone are currently Championship fit while others are only beginning to approach that level, I'd take Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Kildare all to beat them if they met in the last 8, suppose law of averages leaves them a decent chance of progressing to the semis.
I'm going to back Kildare to finally get a bit of luck and win Sam. I'd agree Dublin deserved their luck last year, they might find Refs not so accommodating this year (a la Brian White in 2003 for Armagh and thon Longford bollix for every Armagh game post 2002).
Your fitness point is nonsense. Tyrone train two nights a week and do a couple in the gym - I'm pretty sure this is no more than most counties at this stage of the year. I would imagine they are around the same level as a lot of teams. They are ahead of previous years when only trained one night for a lot of the year which lead to Tyrone struggling in the league.
I'm not sure how anyone can tip Kildare for the All Ireland. Have they ever actually won a big match under McGeeney or beaten a big team? I don't see them being any better than other years. They blew their best chance to get to an All Ireland final when they got beat by Down.
This would suggest other wise:
http://www.teamtalkmag.com/archives/13787 (http://www.teamtalkmag.com/archives/13787)
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 28, 2012, 08:00:19 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 28, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
Great to see Tyrone wans losing the run of themselves again. Tyrone are currently Championship fit while others are only beginning to approach that level, I'd take Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Kildare all to beat them if they met in the last 8, suppose law of averages leaves them a decent chance of progressing to the semis.
I'm going to back Kildare to finally get a bit of luck and win Sam. I'd agree Dublin deserved their luck last year, they might find Refs not so accommodating this year (a la Brian White in 2003 for Armagh and thon Longford bollix for every Armagh game post 2002).
You will see its actually not the Tyrone ones who are losing the run of it. How do any of us know the level of fitness a team has? Is there a wee machine where we can see a wee bar graph to show Tyrone are 98% at Championship fitness level whereas the 4 you mentioned are only at 92%? One thing for sure is that the Tyrone panel is littered with individual talent. The new players coming through have all won All Irelands before, and are now being integrated into the system MH employs. The one thing every Tyrone fan wanted over the past few years was for the younger generation to gain the experience of Senior football to see where they lay, and currently its looking good. On top of the talent, there is pace to burn in every line, something which was amiss the last few years. Its a shame that Ronan O'Neill is out, but going forward this Tyrone team could very well reach the top. This year may be a summer or two too soon though. I personally think Cork will come good, then again maybe the fact that alot of their key players are pushing on is finally showing come game time. Dublin will be thereabouts, but I just feel that they are a solid team that will not put the fear of god into anyone come the business end of the Championship. There is a lot of talk about Kerry this year going by the League, but am I the only one who looks at the Kerry team and sees a team not as strong as 3/4/5 years ago. I know Martin McHugh would disagree, the man must have a serious boner for Kerry as he was spouting the other week that Kerry have 5 of the best forwards to ever play Gaelic football.
5 best ever you couldn't agree with. maybe it was a rhetorical flourish! a bit of a misspeak. happens to us all sure.
i was listening to mchugh on highland radio commenting on the don/dub game and he was full of praise for tyrone and for a culture there that he thought keeps producing talented footballers and that they are serious contenders again and the best side in ulster atm. he may, as you say, be somewhat attracted to kerry football, but he holds tyrone in esteem too going on what i heard him from him on sunday.
Quote from: bennydorano on March 28, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
Great to see Tyrone wans losing the run of themselves again. Tyrone are currently Championship fit while others are only beginning to approach that level, I'd take Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Kildare all to beat them if they met in the last 8, suppose law of averages leaves them a decent chance of progressing to the semis.
I'm going to back Kildare to finally get a bit of luck and win Sam. I'd agree Dublin deserved their luck last year, they might find Refs not so accommodating this year (a la Brian White in 2003 for Armagh and thon Longford bollix for every Armagh game post 2002).
Feck me the poor auld Arma posters are so unhappy no one is rating them that they can't take others mentioning Tyrone as contenders, even if most of them weren't even from the County. I think there's few in Tyrone that will look past May.
Quote from: loughshore lad on March 28, 2012, 11:05:56 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 28, 2012, 10:27:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 28, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
Great to see Tyrone wans losing the run of themselves again. Tyrone are currently Championship fit while others are only beginning to approach that level, I'd take Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Kildare all to beat them if they met in the last 8, suppose law of averages leaves them a decent chance of progressing to the semis.
I'm going to back Kildare to finally get a bit of luck and win Sam. I'd agree Dublin deserved their luck last year, they might find Refs not so accommodating this year (a la Brian White in 2003 for Armagh and thon Longford bollix for every Armagh game post 2002).
Your fitness point is nonsense. Tyrone train two nights a week and do a couple in the gym - I'm pretty sure this is no more than most counties at this stage of the year. I would imagine they are around the same level as a lot of teams. They are ahead of previous years when only trained one night for a lot of the year which lead to Tyrone struggling in the league.
I'm not sure how anyone can tip Kildare for the All Ireland. Have they ever actually won a big match under McGeeney or beaten a big team? I don't see them being any better than other years. They blew their best chance to get to an All Ireland final when they got beat by Down.
This would suggest other wise:
http://www.teamtalkmag.com/archives/13787 (http://www.teamtalkmag.com/archives/13787)
Tyrone have trained outdoors twice a week during the league, its a fact. I've no doubt they are ahead of their fitness in previous years but don't think they are much ahead of other teams. I would be confident they haven't trained more than a lot of counties. Dublin for example had a crazy amount of trainings in January and Down had started the early morning sessions too. Armagh are training plenty as well.
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 08:31:36 PM
I'm dealing in facts. The improvement in Dublin's hurling was long signposted from winning Leinster at underage from the mid-00's to combining colleges and winning titles at that level.
Dublin's volunteers are no better than anyone else's it just happens that the strategic plan organised them better than most.
Please explicitly state how money received from 2005 translated into Senior success.
Dublin have the biggest population, a huge player pool. They have the best facilities in the country, the best coaches are bought. They play all their football championship games at home(I think Longford in 2006 or something was their last away championship game), no longer can Parnell Park be called home since every league game is played in Croke park.
Soon every hurling championship game will be played in Croke park. Since they play at home all the time they get the home town referees. 50/50 decisions always go their way. On top of all this they get more money than anyone else, including their own special scheme. 1 million a year they were receiving!!!!!!!!!!
Now can you explain how this couldn't possibly lead to success in both hurling and football? It's been gifted to you on a plate. The fact that you've only won one All Ireland despite having huge advantages over everyone else shows how far off the pace you'd be without them.
It's time to end the bias been shown to Dublin GAA, hurling is struggling in many counties, this money should have been spread out. Dublin's interests have been prioritised to the detriment of other counties. In contrary to the often repeated lie; Dublin is bad for the GAA.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 11:48:44 AM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2012, 08:31:36 PM
I'm dealing in facts. The improvement in Dublin's hurling was long signposted from winning Leinster at underage from the mid-00's to combining colleges and winning titles at that level.
Dublin's volunteers are no better than anyone else's it just happens that the strategic plan organised them better than most.
Please explicitly state how money received from 2005 translated into Senior success.
Dublin have the biggest population, a huge player pool. They have the best facilities in the country, the best coaches are bought. They play all their football championship games at home(I think Longford in 2006 or something was their last away championship game), no longer can Parnell Park be called home since every league game is played in Croke park.
Soon every hurling championship game will be played in Croke park. Since they play at home all the time they get the home town referees. 50/50 decisions always go their way. On top of all this they get more money than anyone else, including their own special scheme. 1 million a year they were receiving!!!!!!!!!!
Now can you explain how this couldn't possibly lead to success in both hurling and football? It's been gifted to you on a plate. The fact that you've only won one All Ireland despite having huge advantages over everyone else shows how far off the pace you'd be without them.
It's time to end the bias been shown to Dublin GAA, hurling is struggling in many counties, this money should have been spread out. Dublin's interests have been prioritised to the detriment of other counties. In contrary to the often repeated lie; Dublin is bad for the GAA.
I've nothing further to add save that you are a complete tool talking bollox.
"Don't Matter" is typical of the reason why the Dubs call Laois supporters the Lemons! The bitterness is unreal.
Here's a couple of examples:
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 27, 2007, 02:31:32 PM
Kerry 1-15 Dublin 0-16
It's really sweet to look at that score and smile in the knowledge that the stinking Dubs are out. Players like the Brogans and Cullen must be feeling dejected today after their defeat and all I can do is laugh. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: Dont Matter on August 03, 2009, 05:32:15 PM
:D :D :D :D The Dubs get their hopes up every year and then boom, smashed to pieces, brilliant, I love this kind of stuff.
Funnily enough he didnt post anything about the 2011 Final.
In fact he went into hiding altogether from the end of July till mid November.
No doubt, still having nightmares about Clucko's free and Cullen and Brogans celebrating with Celtic Crosses and Sam!
;D Here we see the Dubs trying to hide from the FACT that not only are they buying success but they are buying it with everyone else's money!
Why haven't you quoted some of my posts about the kind of 'fans' you attract? More of this type of lowlife will be attracted to games now, making it worse for away fans travelling to the hole that is Dublin.
Dublin is bad for the GAA.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 12:29:29 PM
;D Here we see the Dubs trying to hide from the FACT that not only are they buying success but they are buying it with everyone else's money!
Why haven't you quoted some of my posts about the kind of 'fans' you attract? More of this type of lowlife will be attracted to games now, making it worse for away fans travelling to the hole that is Dublin.
Dublin is bad for the GAA.
Dublin is good for the GAA but bad for your blood pressure Dont Matter. There is no conspiracy.
Let it go son before you have a stroke or something.
Which county generates the most cash for the GAA?
Hey boys, ye're not paying attention. This was not a regular payment. Dublin got 7 million out of this scheme, everyone else got zero.
Who was Taoiseach in 2005 and what county was he from? Unable to build the stadium he desired so much maybe he turned to his county and guaranteed them success into the future. It's was one way of garnishing votes anyway. A Dublin hero that they inflicted onto the rest of us.
I'm well relaxed boys, just pointing out the truth of Dublins success and the unfair bias that has grown in the GAA and must be quashed.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 04:03:53 PM
Hey boys, ye're not paying attention. This was not a regular payment. Dublin got 7 million out of this scheme, everyone else got zero.
Who was Taoiseach in 2005 and what county was he from? Unable to build the stadium he desired so much maybe he turned to his county and guaranteed them success into the future. It's was one way of garnishing votes anyway. A Dublin hero that they inflicted onto the rest of us.
I'm well relaxed boys, just pointing out the truth of Dublins success and the unfair bias that has grown in the GAA and must be quashed.
By that logic, Enda should be able to deliver the Liam McCarthy to Mayo over the next 6 or 7 years.
I'm logging into my paddypower account now............
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 04:03:53 PM
everyone else got zero.
Ulster council got £120m
Thought you weren't talkin to me, this was a Dublin specific scheme. Dublin got so desperate for success that they bought it with the help of their hero Bertie.
Quote from: Coddler on March 29, 2012, 04:27:38 PM
By that logic, Enda should be able to deliver the Liam McCarthy to Mayo over the next 6 or 7 years.
I'm logging into my paddypower account now............
If Enda provides Mayo GAA with 7 million I'm sure they will win an All Ireland, plus they might even learn how to hit a sliotar over there.
they know full well how to hit a sliotar in mayo.plenty of kids and teens play the game now and it will only grow. dublin are good for the game,attendance alone is worth millions. then factor in watching the brogans and some of the football the team play is very nice to watch.
did a dub steal your girlfriend?
I think it's just bitterness and frustration at the realisation that Dublin filling Croke Park so often since it was redeveloped and all the cash this generated for Leinster & Central council, this is turn freed up money for the Laois County Board to pay two All Stars directly in the same period, to play for Laois.
What's with the Dub love in? Can you not understand that it was the government that gave them 1 million a year? This was on top of what they were getting elsewhere.
This has nothing to do with how many junkies they get in to fill Croke Park (on occasion) or how good any of their players are. It's about fairness in the GAA.
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 07:45:09 PM
I think it's just bitterness and frustration at the realisation that Dublin filling Croke Park so often since it was redeveloped and all the cash this generated for Leinster & Central council, this is turn freed up money for the Laois County Board to pay two All Stars directly in the same period, to play for Laois.
;D What are you on about now? Go easy on the sauce, save it for when you're in Croker again. Maybe you can tell some of the junkies on the hill about it.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 07:50:14 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 07:45:09 PM
I think it's just bitterness and frustration at the realisation that Dublin filling Croke Park so often since it was redeveloped and all the cash this generated for Leinster & Central council, this is turn freed up money for the Laois County Board to pay two All Stars directly in the same period, to play for Laois.
;D What are you on about now? Go easy on the sauce, save it for when you're in Croker again. Maybe you can tell some of the junkies on the hill about it.
Sorry perhaps I was unclear.
Laois directly paid two All-Stars to play for their county over the last six years.
One was when he 'retired' and was an incentive to play again and the other was to outbid a Dublin club that he was playing for.
They funded this using money 'freed-up (to borrow your argument) from the Dublin/full Croke Park gravy train.
Hope that's clearer for you.
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:10:33 PM
Sorry perhaps I was unclear.
Laois directly paid two All-Stars to play for their county over the last six years.
One was when he 'retired' and was an incentive to play again and the other was to outbid a Dublin club that he was playing for.
They funded this using money 'freed-up (to borrow your argument) from the Dublin/full Croke Park gravy train.
Hope that's clearer for you.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know this story and it was laughed about years ago. No truth in it.
What your using now is tactics often used by the Dublin hero Bertie Ahern. Didn't work for him either in the end. :D
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:21:46 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:10:33 PM
Sorry perhaps I was unclear.
Laois directly paid two All-Stars to play for their county over the last six years.
One was when he 'retired' and was an incentive to play again and the other was to outbid a Dublin club that he was playing for.
They funded this using money 'freed-up (to borrow your argument) from the Dublin/full Croke Park gravy train.
Hope that's clearer for you.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know this story and it was laughed about years ago. No truth in it.
What your using now is tactics often used by the Dublin hero Bertie Ahern. Didn't work for him either in the end. :D
Deny, deny, deny.
I was present at one of the negotiations. It happened.
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:21:46 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:10:33 PM
Sorry perhaps I was unclear.
Laois directly paid two All-Stars to play for their county over the last six years.
One was when he 'retired' and was an incentive to play again and the other was to outbid a Dublin club that he was playing for.
They funded this using money 'freed-up (to borrow your argument) from the Dublin/full Croke Park gravy train.
Hope that's clearer for you.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know this story and it was laughed about years ago. No truth in it.
What your using now is tactics often used by the Dublin hero Bertie Ahern. Didn't work for him either in the end. :D
Deny, deny, deny.
I was present at one of the negotiations. It happened.
Yes. Deny, deny, deny and then deflect, deflect, deflect were Bertie's tactics. :D
I was at a gym in Dublin a few years ago and out the back I saw a well known Dublin senior footballer buy steroids.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:37:50 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:21:46 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:10:33 PM
Sorry perhaps I was unclear.
Laois directly paid two All-Stars to play for their county over the last six years.
One was when he 'retired' and was an incentive to play again and the other was to outbid a Dublin club that he was playing for.
They funded this using money 'freed-up (to borrow your argument) from the Dublin/full Croke Park gravy train.
Hope that's clearer for you.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know this story and it was laughed about years ago. No truth in it.
What your using now is tactics often used by the Dublin hero Bertie Ahern. Didn't work for him either in the end. :D
Deny, deny, deny.
I was present at one of the negotiations. It happened.
Yes. Deny, deny, deny and then deflect, deflect, deflect were Bertie's tactics. :D
I was at a gym in Dublin a few years ago and out the back I saw a well known Dublin senior footballer buy steroids.
I'm dealing in fact unlike yourself. Get over your Dublin obsession.
I have stated nothing but fact. If any other county were been handed success I'd dislike them also.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:44:52 PM
I have stated nothing but fact. If any other county were been handed success I'd dislike them also.
Laois were handed a Leinster title. Monies from Dublin's run in 2002 allowed them pay big bucks for Micko.
Heffo FFS - for the love of God will you please just ignore this bitter little f***er. He comes from a county full of bitter little f*****s! As you pointed out its the reason they are collectively known as the lemons!
As the famous saying goes 'never argue with a fool as they will bring you down to their level and then beat you on experience'!!!
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:44:52 PM
I have stated nothing but fact. If any other county were been handed success I'd dislike them also.
Laois were handed a Leinster title. Monies from Dublin's run in 2002 allowed them pay big bucks for Micko.
;D We paid for him on our own. We would have won another one in 05 if the ref didn't hand it to the home team.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 29, 2012, 08:50:47 PM
Heffo FFS - for the love of God will you please just ignore this bitter little f***er. He comes from a county full of bitter little f*****s! As you pointed out its the reason they are collectively known as the lemons!
As the famous saying goes 'never argue with a fool as they will bring you down to their level and then beat you on experience'!!!
I want to start a clean Hill 16 up campaign. Make the area junkie free.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:44:52 PM
I have stated nothing but fact. If any other county were been handed success I'd dislike them also.
Laois were handed a Leinster title. Monies from Dublin's run in 2002 allowed them pay big bucks for Micko.
;D We paid for him on our own. We would have won another one in 05 if the ref didn't hand it to the home team.
You shower couldn't be trusted to not fuc* up a cup of tea, never mind generate the kind of money Micko deals in.
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2012, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 29, 2012, 08:44:52 PM
I have stated nothing but fact. If any other county were been handed success I'd dislike them also.
Laois were handed a Leinster title. Monies from Dublin's run in 2002 allowed them pay big bucks for Micko.
;D We paid for him on our own. We would have won another one in 05 if the ref didn't hand it to the home team.
You shower couldn't be trusted to not f*** up a cup of tea, never mind generate the kind of money Micko deals in.
He was kept happy, even Dublins improved offer didn't tempt him.
Favorites / Main contenders - Kerry, Cork & Dublin
One of these 99% certain to win All Ireland IMO!
Contenders - Tyrone, Kildare & Donegal
Dark Horses / make an impact - Mayo, Down, Armagh and possibly Galway
After that would expect you may get a team that through luck of the draw makes it through to qfs. Wexford probably only team that springs to mind here. You would have thought county like Derry or Meath woul at very least be in this bracket but not the way things look at the minute!
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 29, 2012, 09:21:12 PM
Favorites / Main contenders - Kerry, Cork & Dublin
One of these 99% certain to win All Ireland IMO!
Contenders - Tyrone, Kildare & Donegal
Dark Horses / make an impact - Mayo, Down, Armagh and possibly Galway
After that would expect you may get a team that through luck of the draw makes it through to qfs. Wexford probably only team that springs to mind here. You would have thought county like Derry or Meath woul at very least be in this bracket but not the way things look at the minute!
I'd have Mayo in the contenders group too.
It'll be interesting to look back on this thread come August bank holiday time.
I'm biased but if the current Roscommon panel doesn't suffer huge injuries - and they've been getting progressively healthier all through the year so it seems like we're over the brunt of that - they will surprise alot of outsiders. Likewise, Longford are a serious outfit this year and I can see them cleaning a few clocks before Summer's end.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on March 29, 2012, 09:21:12 PM
Favorites / Main contenders - Kerry, Cork & Dublin
One of these 99% certain to win All Ireland IMO!
Contenders - Tyrone, Kildare & Donegal
Dark Horses / make an impact - Mayo, Down, Armagh and possibly Galway
Would agree with top 3 although Cork are probably behind Kerry and Dublin. Kerry wil be smarting after last year, it will be the last hurrah for a few of them and player for player they still have the best forwards in the country.Cork have a lot of good footballers but are a bit one dimensional in attack.
Tyrone seem to have improved but is early days yet.Donegal will not go as well this year, huge effort put in last year which will be hard to replicate. They don't have enough scoring forwards to push on from last year.
I'd say that, while most in Tyrone have enjoyed the performances during the league, we aren't expecting much this year. Hard to see this team coping with the physicality of the likes of the Dubs at this stage. While defensively sound, not clinical enough with our scores-R O'Neill will be missed. Armagh on their day can beat anyone and we could well be threw out the back door on the first day. I think that this would be a better route for this fledgling team. I see Ricey was already talking about "Next Year" in a teamtalk interview-that's an indication as to where Tyrone are right now.
Can't see past The Dubs and Kerry-the only thing going against the Dubs is the chance of a fussy ref. Donegal, Down, Armagh,Tyrone and Kildare are just behind them. Mayo, Cork,Derry are next with Fermanagh as the dark horses for a quarter-final spot.
Quote from: Syferus on March 29, 2012, 10:34:17 PM
I'm biased but if the current Roscommon panel doesn't suffer huge injuries - and they've been getting progressively healthier all through the year so it seems like we're over the brunt of that - they will surprise alot of outsiders. Likewise, Longford are a serious outfit this year and I can see them cleaning a few clocks before Summer's end.
Longford or Roscommon are not All Ireland contenders or outsiders.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 30, 2012, 01:43:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on March 29, 2012, 10:34:17 PM
I'm biased but if the current Roscommon panel doesn't suffer huge injuries - and they've been getting progressively healthier all through the year so it seems like we're over the brunt of that - they will surprise alot of outsiders. Likewise, Longford are a serious outfit this year and I can see them cleaning a few clocks before Summer's end.
Longford or Roscommon are not All Ireland contenders or outsiders.
The conversation has lurched from Tyronemania to Dubs bashing to who are dark horses for the quarter-finals; what I said was fair game.
Quote from: Whishtup on March 30, 2012, 01:13:39 AM
I'd say that, while most in Tyrone have enjoyed the performances during the league, we aren't expecting much this year. Hard to see this team coping with the physicality of the likes of the Dubs at this stage. While defensively sound, not clinical enough with our scores-R O'Neill will be missed. Armagh on their day can beat anyone and we could well be threw out the back door on the first day. I think that this would be a better route for this fledgling team. I see Ricey was already talking about "Next Year" in a teamtalk interview-that's an indication as to where Tyrone are right now.
Can't see past The Dubs and Kerry-the only thing going against the Dubs is the chance of a fussy ref. Donegal, Down, Armagh,Tyrone and Kildare are just behind them. Mayo, Cork,Derry are next with Fermanagh as the dark horses for a quarter-final spot.
As biased as I am... I don't see how Armagh can be rated above Cork and Mayo in anyone's book.
Can i Just get on my Kildare are over-rated horse.
The media love Kildare, they love their long journeys through the back door, they love the Geezer factor and they love the pity they can lay on Kildare when they lose narrowly to a dodgy decision.
Looking at the last 4 years under they Geezer, they have no Big scalp or provincial title for a team that are supposed to be in the big four.
In 2011 lost to Dublin and Donegal, Beat Wicklow, Meath, Laois, Meath, Derry
In 2010 lost to Louth and Down, Beat Antrim, Leitrim, Derry, Monaghan, Meath
2009 Lost to Dublin and Tyrone, Beat Offaly, Wexford, Laois, Wicklow
2008 Lost to Wicklow and Cork, Beat Cavan, Limerick, Fermanagh,
They have played in Division 2 of the National League in 2012, 2011,2010 and 2009.
Their only achievement of note is an O'Byrne in 2011!
It's easy to use statistics to support any argument, and yes, Kidlare are over-rated based on success but likewise the backlash Iv'e seen agaisnt them extends way too far - they were within inches of Donegal and have real reasons to feel hard done by against Dublin, the All-Ireland champions, last year and Down the previous year. League position matters little to Kildare, clearly, they only ever play anywhere close to their championship form in the league near the end.
QuoteI don't see how Armagh can be rated above Cork and Mayo in anyone's book.
In a phone book, perhaps.
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 30, 2012, 03:33:17 PM
Can i Just get on my Kildare are over-rated horse.
No.
Look Kildare are good copy, this conversation was had last year. They have won 17 championship games in 4 years, which is a pretty good record but have had some awful luck and don't think anyone would argue you do need those bounces to go your way to win an AI.
But who are these people that over-rate Kildare, certainly not their fans expect Ewen McKenna who constantly bigs up Kildare but I think he does that just to rile the Dubs. Kildare are probably the 2nd best team in Leinster and outside in a group with Donegal, Mayo and Armagh who could all beat other on any given Sunday but well behind the Big 3 plus Tyrone.
Certainly not people within Kildare that are hyping up the team. We have had some bad luck in recent years but we also probably lack a small bit of belief when it really comes down to it against the bigger teams. We have come close against Cork in 2008, Dublin and Tyrone in 2009, Dublin in 2011 but it's difficult to argue that we should have won any of those matches.
This season should be our best chance of achieving something with the likes of Peter Kelly, Mikey Conway, Dermot Earley and Daryl Flynn all fit and raring to go and Johnny Doyle restored to the forwards. Hard to read anything into the league form going on recent years. Hopefully we can get back to the Leinster Final and have a good crack at the Dubs. Win that and anything is possible - might just give the team the belief and confidence to really push on. Personally think we'll fall short again but sure we live in hope.
Think that's very reasonable view. If it is Kildare V Dublin Leinster final there is no doubt Kildare are capable of winning it if Dubs not firing at 100%. This was the case last year v Wexford and nearly cost us. Think Gilroy will be in a dilemna if it is Kildare in Leinster final as like last year Aug weekend is the priority but he nor the supporters will want to lose to Kildare.
Re the myth that now abounds about Kildare's bad luck. Decisions go for and against every team. Last two times v Dublin kildare have had extra man for nearly half of game and never looked like winning. If Bernard hadn't of got the free at end last year Kildare would barely have deserved draw. Dublin were better team even with 14 players.
Kildare didn't deserve to beat Donegal last year. They had plenty of chances to win game and didn't take them. Even if square ball goal had been allowed no guarantee Kildare would have won.
And finlly everyone seems to forget that though Coulter goal v Down should never have been allowed Kildare player (can't remember nam) who scored goal took 13/14 steps before scoring Kildare goal.
Swings and rounabouts!!!
Don't like McGeeney one bit but Kildare are serious team who noone will want to play.
Quote from: JP on March 30, 2012, 06:31:17 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on March 30, 2012, 01:13:39 AM
I'd say that, while most in Tyrone have enjoyed the performances during the league, we aren't expecting much this year. Hard to see this team coping with the physicality of the likes of the Dubs at this stage. While defensively sound, not clinical enough with our scores-R O'Neill will be missed. Armagh on their day can beat anyone and we could well be threw out the back door on the first day. I think that this would be a better route for this fledgling team. I see Ricey was already talking about "Next Year" in a teamtalk interview-that's an indication as to where Tyrone are right now.
Can't see past The Dubs and Kerry-the only thing going against the Dubs is the chance of a fussy ref. Donegal, Down, Armagh,Tyrone and Kildare are just behind them. Mayo, Cork,Derry are next with Fermanagh as the dark horses for a quarter-final spot.
As biased as I am... I don't see how Armagh can be rated above Cork and Mayo in anyone's book.
Armagh have shown that they can beat the big teams and are afraid of no-one-still have the Cross boys to come back. Mayo haven't a hope-attitude stinks, and Cork are on the wain-depend a lot on Goulding being fit.
Armagh could definitely bring Tyrone crashing down to earth in their home patch. In Tyrone's favour is the extra game in the divisional final but I expect a fired-up Rangers v Celtic type performance from the dark side/evil empire/nazis/Brits.
Cork don't depend on goulding at all, Sheehan is a far for important player for their All Ireland chances. If they got rid of Counihan they'd be a much more formidable team. They still have plenty of top quality players but they seem to be stuck in a rut and there is little tactical nous on the sideline.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 30, 2012, 03:51:11 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 30, 2012, 03:33:17 PM
Can i Just get on my Kildare are over-rated horse.
No.
Look Kildare are good copy, this conversation was had last year. They have won 17 championship games in 4 years, which is a pretty good record but have had some awful luck and don't think anyone would argue you do need those bounces to go your way to win an AI.
But who are these people that over-rate Kildare, certainly not their fans expect Ewen McKenna who constantly bigs up Kildare but I think he does that just to rile the Dubs. Kildare are probably the 2nd best team in Leinster and outside in a group with Donegal, Mayo and Armagh who could all beat other on any given Sunday but well behind the Big 3 plus Tyrone.
There is a reason Kildare win have won 17 championship games in 4 years, They are out of the Leinster Championship early.
Like the League, the Leinster Championship does not seem to be high priority to Kildare.
Kildare work hard, are fit, but lack the natural footballers to beat the better teams in tight games.
To be fair they are not AI title contenders, and i'm not sure if they'll have an influence on the eventual winner, untill they claim a big scalp.
Quote from: Whishtup on March 30, 2012, 06:00:32 PM
Quote from: JP on March 30, 2012, 06:31:17 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on March 30, 2012, 01:13:39 AM
I'd say that, while most in Tyrone have enjoyed the performances during the league, we aren't expecting much this year. Hard to see this team coping with the physicality of the likes of the Dubs at this stage. While defensively sound, not clinical enough with our scores-R O'Neill will be missed. Armagh on their day can beat anyone and we could well be threw out the back door on the first day. I think that this would be a better route for this fledgling team. I see Ricey was already talking about "Next Year" in a teamtalk interview-that's an indication as to where Tyrone are right now.
Can't see past The Dubs and Kerry-the only thing going against the Dubs is the chance of a fussy ref. Donegal, Down, Armagh,Tyrone and Kildare are just behind them. Mayo, Cork,Derry are next with Fermanagh as the dark horses for a quarter-final spot.
As biased as I am... I don't see how Armagh can be rated above Cork and Mayo in anyone's book.
Armagh have shown that they can beat the big teams and are afraid of no-one-still have the Cross boys to come back. Mayo haven't a hope-attitude stinks, and Cork are on the wain-depend a lot on Goulding being fit.
Far be it from me to stick up for our noisy neighbours but have Mayo not beaten more big teams in championship footbal in recent years than Armagh have?
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on March 30, 2012, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: Whishtup on March 30, 2012, 06:00:32 PM
Quote from: JP on March 30, 2012, 06:31:17 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on March 30, 2012, 01:13:39 AM
I'd say that, while most in Tyrone have enjoyed the performances during the league, we aren't expecting much this year. Hard to see this team coping with the physicality of the likes of the Dubs at this stage. While defensively sound, not clinical enough with our scores-R O'Neill will be missed. Armagh on their day can beat anyone and we could well be threw out the back door on the first day. I think that this would be a better route for this fledgling team. I see Ricey was already talking about "Next Year" in a teamtalk interview-that's an indication as to where Tyrone are right now.
Can't see past The Dubs and Kerry-the only thing going against the Dubs is the chance of a fussy ref. Donegal, Down, Armagh,Tyrone and Kildare are just behind them. Mayo, Cork,Derry are next with Fermanagh as the dark horses for a quarter-final spot.
As biased as I am... I don't see how Armagh can be rated above Cork and Mayo in anyone's book.
Armagh have shown that they can beat the big teams and are afraid of no-one-still have the Cross boys to come back. Mayo haven't a hope-attitude stinks, and Cork are on the wain-depend a lot on Goulding being fit.
Far be it from me to stick up for our noisy neighbours but have Mayo not beaten more big teams in championship footbal in recent years than Armagh have?
Outside of Connacht, Just Cork last year! The O'Mahoney years were a disaster! You have to go back to 2006 under Mickey Moran when Mayo beat Dublin.
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 30, 2012, 07:07:14 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 30, 2012, 03:51:11 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 30, 2012, 03:33:17 PM
Can i Just get on my Kildare are over-rated horse.
No.
Look Kildare are good copy, this conversation was had last year. They have won 17 championship games in 4 years, which is a pretty good record but have had some awful luck and don't think anyone would argue you do need those bounces to go your way to win an AI.
But who are these people that over-rate Kildare, certainly not their fans expect Ewen McKenna who constantly bigs up Kildare but I think he does that just to rile the Dubs. Kildare are probably the 2nd best team in Leinster and outside in a group with Donegal, Mayo and Armagh who could all beat other on any given Sunday but well behind the Big 3 plus Tyrone.
There is a reason Kildare win have won 17 championship games in 4 years, They are out of the Leinster Championship early.
Like the League, the Leinster Championship does not seem to be high priority to Kildare.
Kildare work hard, are fit, but lack the natural footballers to beat the better teams in tight games.
To be fair they are not AI title contenders, and i'm not sure if they'll have an influence on the eventual winner, untill they claim a big scalp.
Rubbish. The Kildare players would bite your arm off for a Leinster title. Of the current panel, only Dermot Earley, Johnny Doyle and Ronan Sweeney have Leinster medals. We've only won two Leinsters in a generation. We're hardly in a position to turn our noses up at a Leinster title.
The evidence of McGeeney's four championship seasons also doesn't bear this out:
In 2008, both the players and the management were very inexperienced. McGeeney picked a crazy team and Wicklow beat us handy. Wicklow should have beaten us in 2005 so it was no surprise and they were a decent outfit themselves at the time.
In 2009, Dublin beat us by three points in the Leinster Final after Kildare had easily accounted for Offaly, Laois and the previous years semi-finalists Wexford.
In 2010, Louth caught us cold in some respects. They destroyed a makeshift Kildare full-back line and dominated our midfield. The damage was done when a half-fit Earley was brought on. Louth themselves were a formidable outfit that summer as the Leinster Final proved.
In 2011, Kildare beat Wicklow and Meath before going down by a point to the team that went on to claim the All-Ireland.
To say that Kildare don't go all out in Leinster is complete nonsense. We've never lost in the backdoor under McGeeney but we've had to face some tough draws along the way - Limerick away in 2008 after they'd destroyed Meath down there, Wicklow in Portlaoise 2009 who had beaten Down in the previous round, Derry away in 2010, two local derbies away from home in 2011 against Laois and Meath. My own opinion of the Donegal match last year is that the schedule of games cost us. It was our fourth consecutive weekend out and the team put in such an effort to claw back a draw in normal time that they were simply knackered by the second period of extra time. We would have been in a much better position had we got to the quarter finals through the front door but we haven't been able to achieve that under McGeeney and I doubt now that we will. 2010 was our chance and we blew it.
Kildare for horses.
Quote from: ONeill on March 30, 2012, 08:30:36 PM
Kildare for horses.
or is that horses for courses!
Quote from: Zulu on March 30, 2012, 06:20:17 PM
Cork don't depend on goulding at all, Sheehan is a far for important player for their All Ireland chances. If they got rid of Counihan they'd be a much more formidable team. They still have plenty of top quality players but they seem to be stuck in a rut and there is little tactical nous on the sideline.
Goulding is a big-game player with experience and it's no accident that Cork's finest hours this past few years have come when he has hit form. He has AI final Man of the match award and an allstar the year before And he's only 25 or 26.
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 30, 2012, 07:44:01 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on March 30, 2012, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: Whishtup on March 30, 2012, 06:00:32 PM
Quote from: JP on March 30, 2012, 06:31:17 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on March 30, 2012, 01:13:39 AM
I'd say that, while most in Tyrone have enjoyed the performances during the league, we aren't expecting much this year. Hard to see this team coping with the physicality of the likes of the Dubs at this stage. While defensively sound, not clinical enough with our scores-R O'Neill will be missed. Armagh on their day can beat anyone and we could well be threw out the back door on the first day. I think that this would be a better route for this fledgling team. I see Ricey was already talking about "Next Year" in a teamtalk interview-that's an indication as to where Tyrone are right now.
Can't see past The Dubs and Kerry-the only thing going against the Dubs is the chance of a fussy ref. Donegal, Down, Armagh,Tyrone and Kildare are just behind them. Mayo, Cork,Derry are next with Fermanagh as the dark horses for a quarter-final spot.
As biased as I am... I don't see how Armagh can be rated above Cork and Mayo in anyone's book.
Armagh have shown that they can beat the big teams and are afraid of no-one-still have the Cross boys to come back. Mayo haven't a hope-attitude stinks, and Cork are on the wain-depend a lot on Goulding being fit.
Far be it from me to stick up for our noisy neighbours but have Mayo not beaten more big teams in championship footbal in recent years than Armagh have?
Outside of Connacht, Just Cork last year! The O'Mahoney years were a disaster! You have to go back to 2006 under Mickey Moran when Mayo beat Dublin.
That's still better then Armagh. We haven't been in the quarterfinals since 2008 and you have to go back to 2005 for our last semi-final appearance. Armagh haven't beaten a massive team since the Ulster final against Tyrone in 2005.
Dublin continue to be mentally weak - one thing to suffer a shock defeat, entirely another to suffer a shock hammering
I think we can add Mayo to the list.
Mayo4Sam.
Maybe they can prove me wrong but let's see them do that for two or three matches in a row. Also can't see them do it against a seventeen-man Dublin team in Croke Park.(crowd+ref)
On their day they can beat anyone except Kerry.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 31, 2012, 09:37:11 PM
On their day they can beat anyone except Kerry.
Sadly that seems to be our lot for the last decade or more.
Quote from: Whishtup on March 31, 2012, 09:29:19 PM
Maybe they can prove me wrong but let's see them do that for two or three matches in a row. Also can't see them do it against a seventeen-man Dublin team in Croke Park.(crowd+ref)
Cop on to yourself..................
Not a chance Dublin are realistic contenders
Hammered in obyrne cup against kildare
Hammered by kerry in the league opener
Limped past laois
Stuffed by Down
Average performance against a bewildered armagh and the result against donegal was more than flattering
Hammered Hammered by Mayo
Not a chance of contention
Based on League performances and the track of record of teams defending the AI title I think it is beyond Dublin to retain the title. Its between Kerry and Cork this year.
Next day in Cork imo will be the true indicator of Dublin's worth this Spring.
I think that the hard training all teams are doing now (winding down maybe)throws up results like this. Thought Dubs were sharp against Donegal but were woefully sluggish tonight.
NFL1 a bit all over the shop this year .................. Armagh v Kerry and Dublin results for example.
Certain Dublin lads have to reign (sic) in their petulance....... especially one player.
Mayo look very good. "Galway 1998" feel about them imo.
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on March 31, 2012, 09:42:09 PM
Quote from: Whishtup on March 31, 2012, 09:29:19 PM
Maybe they can prove me wrong but let's see them do that for two or three matches in a row. Also can't see them do it against a seventeen-man Dublin team in Croke Park.(crowd+ref)
Cop on to yourself..................
Not a chance Dublin are realistic contenders
Hammered in obyrne cup against kildare
Hammered by kerry in the league opener
Limped past laois
Stuffed by Down
Average performance against a bewildered armagh and the result against donegal was more than flattering
Hammered Hammered by Mayo
Not a chance of contention
Only match lost in Croke Park was against a hurting Kerry, and it was the first match of the season. The Brogan's still have to come into the equation properly, too. And the bookies have ye second favorites. Croke park is the Lions den for every team at the minute, including Kerry.. Dublin were at three-quarter-pace against Mayo today.
As a Dub I'd almost prefer to see us fail to qualify for the League semi-finals as I think the last thing the players need now is a semi-final against Kerry where they could well get a trimming based on current form. They're better off with some breathing space between now and the championship. If Dublin are to have a real chance of retaining Sam I think gaining through the back door would be the best route. It'll certainly have to be done a different way to last year when they built right from the start of the league. There's a lot of tired players there and I have to question whether the same motivation will be there this year when it comes down to it. The back door will give them the best chance to peak when it matters but I can just as easily see a quarter-final exit in a similar manner to Cork last year.
It's a very open All-Ireland this year. At the moment I'd say there's six front runners, in no particular order, namely Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone, Kildare and Mayo. Donegal and Down would be outside bets and then there's a chasing pack containing the likes of Armagh, Derry, Wexford, Galway, Meath etc who could with a bit of luck end up in a quarter or even semi-final but would be highly unlikely to actually win the All-ireland.
Mayo impressed me tonight. They are building very nicely, playing a very Tyrone-style of football with a very high intensity and forwards who can take scores. They'll be a lot more familiar with their system of play this summer than they were last year when they beat Cork and put it up to Kerry for a long time. Conceding only one goal in six matches has to be respected. They're definitely a team that's in with a shout of winning in September.
Jesus lads, its only two weeks since 14-man Donegal outclassed Mayo and everyone was writing them off! Its almost like Sky Sports on here sometimes with the knee-jerk reactions, made even more ridiculous by the fact that its the league. Dublin, along with Cork and Kerry will still be the teams to beat this summer.
The Dubs will win it again.
After tonight we have to be on the short list of genuine contenders. When the attitude is right there are few teams that will beat us.
Quote from: hardstation on March 31, 2012, 11:08:41 PM
Quote from: Mayo Mick on March 31, 2012, 11:07:00 PM
After tonight we have to be on the short list of genuine contenders. When the attitude is right there are few teams that will beat us.
The list can't be that short if Mayo are on it.
:D
Quote from: Canalman on March 31, 2012, 10:34:14 PM
Next day in Cork imo will be the true indicator of Dublin's worth this Spring.
I think that the hard training all teams are doing now (winding down maybe)throws up results like this. Thought Dubs were sharp against Donegal but were woefully sluggish tonight.
NFL1 a bit all over the shop this year .................. Armagh v Kerry and Dublin results for example.
Certain Dublin lads have to reign (sic) in their petulance....... especially one player.
Mayo look very good. "Galway 1998" feel about them imo.
:-X
Quote from: Mayo Mick on March 31, 2012, 11:07:00 PM
After tonight we have to be on the short list of genuine contenders. When the attitude is right there are few teams that will beat us.
Good man Mick, I was wondering where you were!
Quote from: ONeill on March 31, 2012, 11:01:10 PM
The Dubs will win it again.
The facts speak for themselves. Dublin's intensity last year was a huge reason for them winning the All-Ireland. It's very difficult to replicate the same intensity the next year as many other teams, notably Tyrone on a number of occasions, found out.
All the leading contenders have what you would magine, are mitigating circumstances against them.
Dublin - difficult job maintaing the same intensity and motivation as last year
Cork - have a tendency to be rather headless in really crucial matches, question marks over the management's tactical nous and ability to really get the best from the players
Kerry - still have the class, but a thinner squad than in the 2006-2009 period, very old defence which will be a year older and more vulnerable than ever to being caught out by a team with the ability to play with the highest intensity for 70 minutes, were caught out to a certain extent by Dublin's superior fitness last year
Tyrone - the most impressiveteam in the country so far in 2012 but their older players will be a year older and it might still be a year or so too soon for some of their younger players
Kildare - have they the ability to score enough when it comes to the crunch n an All-Ireland semi-final or final? Also fighting against over 80 years of history
Mayo - fighting history in a similar manner to Kildare, have they the all-round class needed? A coming team certainly but Mayo's ability to fook things up should never be underestimated
One of those teams should win it though. It's incredibly open as to which one it will be.
If I
had to pick one, I'd pick Kildare, reluctantly.
In fairness, list out the players Dublin were missing tonight.
I wouldn't write them off just yet.
I was looking at Paddy Power today, and a few things caught my attention.
First, Armagh are at 40/1. Now I know we're not the 60/61 Down team, but that seems like a nice price.
I was also a little surprised too that Louth are at 300/1.
Finally, both Mayo and Donegal are 16/1. Too short a price for the O'Donnell Abu Crew, I think, but I'm starting to be a Mayo believer. I don't have strange powers, but that's them done in two.
You think Louth or Armagh might win the AI?
Not likely, but is Armagh really a 40/1 shot while Donegal is 16/1? And Louth is certainly a rank outsider, but are they really 300/1? I'm not a punter, but am I nuts in thinking those odds a little long. I'd be more inclined to have Armagh at about 25/1 and Louth at about 100/1 perhaps.
Quote from: Canalman on March 31, 2012, 10:34:14 PM
Mayo look very good. "Galway 1998" feel about them imo.
Ah here now.
Not that Mayo aren't a decent side but would Dublin be so lazy/ineffectual/rubbish if that game was in July or August? No chance.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 01, 2012, 02:16:08 AM
Quote from: Canalman on March 31, 2012, 10:34:14 PM
Mayo look very good. "Galway 1998" feel about them imo.
Ah here now.
Not that Mayo aren't a decent side but would Dublin be so lazy/ineffectual/rubbish if that game was in July or August? No chance.
More concerned about how up for it London/Leitrim are in June.
Quote from: Oraisteach on April 01, 2012, 01:31:38 AM
Not likely, but is Armagh really a 40/1 shot while Donegal is 16/1? And Louth is certainly a rank outsider, but are they really 300/1? I'm not a punter, but am I nuts in thinking those odds a little long. I'd be more inclined to have Armagh at about 25/1 and Louth at about 100/1 perhaps.
The odds are fair in the sense after the top 6-7 odds become insane. They reflect the chances of that team winning the All-Ireland, not their chances of effectively competing. Plenty of the top tier can (and some undoubtedly will) lose to D3-D4 teams in the championship. The gap between the top and the bottom has tightened in the past half decade.
syf, do you think Donegal has a two and a half times better chance of an AI than Armagh then?
Quote from: Oraisteach on April 01, 2012, 03:31:01 AM
syf, do you think Donegal has a two and a half times better chance of an AI than Armagh then?
Well I was talking about the 300-1 on Louth types of odds. Armagh are a team that could easily be better than Donegal if the Cross lads show like they have been for their club but untill we see something approaching the championship team it's hard to judge and bookies are a conservative lot and will still be judging Donegal on having the beating of the eventual All-Ireland winners last year.
Quote
Cop on to yourself..................
Not a chance Dublin are realistic contenders
Hammered in obyrne cup against kildare
Hammered by kerry in the league opener
Limped past laois
Stuffed by Down
Average performance against a bewildered armagh and the result against donegal was more than flattering
Hammered Hammered by Mayo
Not a chance of contention
Dublin wouldn't have won lenister nevermind the All Ireland without the two Brogan's last year once they return Dublin will be one of the main teams to beat again.
Quote
Mayo look very good. "Galway 1998" feel about them imo.
That Galway team was one of the best teams of the last few decades the current Mayo team will probably lose to average Galway team in the Connacht final.
Mayo as AI contenders? What date is it?
No-one should ever use a performance against dublin as a yard stick by which to measure their progress.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 31, 2012, 11:41:42 PM
In fairness, list out the players Dublin were missing tonight.
I wouldn't write them off just yet.
You have to Jinxy after last night.
Tyrone's to lose.
You heard it here first.
Dublin football is doomed and Mayo are now the front runners.
Get up the yard! :)
You don't have to think Louth will win the All Ireland to back your conviction that 300/1 is too generous. If you're convinced Louth will win a few games, then you can expect their odds will shorten considerably and you can plan to trade your bet.
If you put €100 on Louth at 300/1 and they come in to 50/1 on Betfair after, say, winning two rounds in Leinster, then (in theory*) you can lay them for approximately €600 at 50/1 and, whether they win the AI or not, you collect about €500. Even if they only shorten to 150/1, you can collect the guts of €100.
*You might struggle to get €600 matched on that market, though.
It's likely to be between Dublin, Kerry and Cork.
There are a few others who can beat any of the "big three" with Tyrone being the most likely to actually win it as they have the experience.
I think they'll definitely make last 8 or 4 but I find it hard to see the Dubs winning it again - only one team (Kerry 06/07) has won back to back AIs since Cork in 89/90. When you consider the teams who have failed to do two in a row, I don't think the current Dublin team are quite good enough to surpass them
Lads, I cannot believe I see Mayo mentioned in this thread. It was a one off last night. Everything from points going over from every angle you know. It was the last day of March and things can only get worse for Mayo anymore I'm afraid.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 01, 2012, 08:34:20 PM
Lads, I cannot believe I see Mayo mentioned in this thread. It was a one off last night. Everything from points going over from every angle you know. It was the last day of March and things can only get worse for Mayo anymore I'm afraid.
Connacht Championship contenders lads.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 01, 2012, 08:34:20 PM
Lads, I cannot believe I see Mayo mentioned in this thread. It was a one off last night. Everything from points going over from every angle you know. It was the last day of March and things can only get worse for Mayo anymore I'm afraid.
Arrah!
Quote from: Oraisteach on April 01, 2012, 03:31:01 AM
syf, do you think Donegal has a two and a half times better chance of an AI than Armagh then?
Why do you care if Donegal are shorter odds than Armagh at the bookies? Is that going to affect Armagh's chances this season?
Beyond Dublin, Kerry and Cork's likely appearances in the semis, providing they avoid each other, the form book will be turned upside down by several teams, for better or worse on their parts, this summer. In retrospect, come the end of the season, quite a few teams will turn out to have been overrated or underrated, same as every year. There's probably ten or more teams who could make an AI semi or even final, with the right draw. They can't all be given the same backing by the punters.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2012, 10:22:50 AM
Mayo as AI contenders? What date is it?
Well the birds are only starting nesting
Quote from: Oraisteach on April 01, 2012, 03:31:01 AM
syf, do you think Donegal has a two and a half times better chance of an AI than Armagh then?
The odds are reflective of the easier path Donegal would have to a semi-final match up with Armagh en route to an All-Ireland not their respective strengths in a one off game.
You're right enough there, Leo. While Donegal have the extra match with Cavan, Armagh open up with Tyrone, a huge obstacle, even at the Athletic Grounds. Still, assuming a Donegal win over Cavan, they get Derry, not exactly a gimme.
Sorry to ruffle your feathers, J90. I was just wondering if I had a 100 to wager, would Donegal at 16/1 be a better choice than Armagh at 40/1? All county loyalty aside, I'd be inclined to go with Armagh, but then again I'm not a gambling aficionado.
Wonder if the match at Ballybofey will have any effect at all on the counties' respective odds.
Quote from: Oraisteach on April 02, 2012, 05:49:14 PM
You're right enough there, Leo. While Donegal have the extra match with Cavan, Armagh open up with Tyrone, a huge obstacle, even at the Athletic Grounds. Still, assuming a Donegal win over Cavan, they get Derry, not exactly a gimme.
Sorry to ruffle your feathers, J90. I was just wondering if I had a 100 to wager, would Donegal at 16/1 be a better choice than Armagh at 40/1? All county loyalty aside, I'd be inclined to go with Armagh, but then again I'm not a gambling aficionado.
Wonder if the match at Ballybofey will have any effect at all on the counties' respective odds.
Not ruffling my feathers at all. Just find it puzzling and amusing that so many on here seem to take it as a personal affront when others don't rate their county or a given player as highly as they think they should be rated.
I'd take Armagh at 40/1 over Donegal at 16/1 too given that the chances of either winning the All Ireland are close to zero. If Donegal can repeat last year's intensity and compensate for the loss of Cassidy and Hegarty (certainly far from a given), I'd pick them to go further in the competition though.
The league game
should have little impact given that Donegal will be without their primary scorer and playmaker and Armagh are yet to reintroduce the Crossmaglen players. Given the short attention span and lack of ability to see the big picture of the collective sporting public though, it is likely that the odds will change somewhat in either direction. Look at the reaction to the Mayo-Dublin game here the other day FFS!
Think it will be a Cork - Kerry final and as much as it pains me to say it, Kerry will win because we can't beat them at Croke Park.
Dublin and Tyrone also there I think.
Quote from: CorkMan on April 03, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Think it will be a Cork - Kerry final and as much as it pains me to say it, Kerry will win because we can't beat them at Croke Park.
Dublin and Tyrone also there I think.
The double-header final. An interesting new development in our games.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 04, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 03, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Think it will be a Cork - Kerry final and as much as it pains me to say it, Kerry will win because we can't beat them at Croke Park.
Dublin and Tyrone also there I think.
The double-header final. An interesting new development in our games.
;D Ah, you know what I mean. Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone the main contenders for me.
Quote from: CorkMan on April 04, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 04, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 03, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Think it will be a Cork - Kerry final and as much as it pains me to say it, Kerry will win because we can't beat them at Croke Park.
Dublin and Tyrone also there I think.
The double-header final. An interesting new development in our games.
;D Ah, you know what I mean. Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone the main contenders for me.
You know Mayo more than likely and maybe Kildare, Donegal or Meath (I think despite their slide, they can be a dangerous obstacle) will take 1 if not 2 of those 4 you mentioned out before the semis.
We won't be taking anybody out. We are in the slough of despond. We are bereft of morale. We have no leader. We are as bad as we were in the late seventies. We have squandered the fruits of our successes and have nothing to show for a quarter of a century of achievement - a golden age that should have been the inspiration for a new generation to keep us at the heights we had gained. But we had nobody in the administration of the county's affairs with the imagination, vision or even interest even to prevent us sliding into the abyss, never mind staying at or near the top. And this is where we'll be staying until some group of Meath football men decide to get together and do something real about it.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 04, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 04, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 04, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 03, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Think it will be a Cork - Kerry final and as much as it pains me to say it, Kerry will win because we can't beat them at Croke Park.
Dublin and Tyrone also there I think.
The double-header final. An interesting new development in our games.
;D Ah, you know what I mean. Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone the main contenders for me.
You know Mayo more than likely and maybe Kildare, Donegal or Meath (I think despite their slide, they can be a dangerous obstacle) will take 1 if not 2 of those 4 you mentioned out before the semis.
Kildare, Donegal.... maybe. Don't see Mayo as a threat. Although I said that last year and look how that turned out :'(
Quote from: CorkMan on April 04, 2012, 04:43:25 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 04, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 04, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 04, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 03, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Think it will be a Cork - Kerry final and as much as it pains me to say it, Kerry will win because we can't beat them at Croke Park.
Dublin and Tyrone also there I think.
The double-header final. An interesting new development in our games.
;D Ah, you know what I mean. Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone the main contenders for me.
You know Mayo more than likely and maybe Kildare, Donegal or Meath (I think despite their slide, they can be a dangerous obstacle) will take 1 if not 2 of those 4 you mentioned out before the semis.
Kildare, Donegal.... maybe. Don't see Mayo as a threat. Although I said that last year and look how that turned out :'(
"Once bitten, twice shy" doesn't apply to Corkonian's I see ;)
Quote from: Tubberman on April 04, 2012, 04:47:57 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 04, 2012, 04:43:25 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 04, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 04, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 04, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 03, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Think it will be a Cork - Kerry final and as much as it pains me to say it, Kerry will win because we can't beat them at Croke Park.
Dublin and Tyrone also there I think.
The double-header final. An interesting new development in our games.
;D Ah, you know what I mean. Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone the main contenders for me.
You know Mayo more than likely and maybe Kildare, Donegal or Meath (I think despite their slide, they can be a dangerous obstacle) will take 1 if not 2 of those 4 you mentioned out before the semis.
Kildare, Donegal.... maybe. Don't see Mayo as a threat. Although I said that last year and look how that turned out :'(
"Once bitten, twice shy" doesn't apply to Corkonian's I see ;)
Nope just as arrogant as before :D
I have a feeling at least one of Cork and Kerry will be in for a shock this year. Alot of key personnel on both teams are getting on and there's plenty of reasons to think they could be more vulnerable than established logic dictates, both panels are past their peaks.
Quote from: Syferus on April 04, 2012, 06:33:42 PM
I have a feeling at least one of Cork and Kerry will be in for a shock this year. Alot of key personnel on both teams are getting on and there's plenty of reasons to think they could be more vulnerable than established logic dictates, both panels are past their peaks.
Most of Kerry's defenders are over 30 them guys will need to be replaced. Cork are made up from those two U-21s winning teams in 2007,2009 along way from past their peak yet.
Quote from: Syferus on April 04, 2012, 06:33:42 PM
I have a feeling at least one of Cork and Kerry will be in for a shock this year. Alot of key personnel on both teams are getting on and there's plenty of reasons to think they could be more vulnerable than established logic dictates, both panels are past their peaks.
I will bet you a hundred quid one of them won't win it out!
Quote from: Syferus on April 04, 2012, 06:33:42 PM
I have a feeling at least one of Cork and Kerry will be in for a shock this year. Alot of key personnel on both teams are getting on and there's plenty of reasons to think they could be more vulnerable than established logic dictates, both panels are past their peaks.
I think Cork wil have learned from last year. They won't take teams like Mayo (no offense Mayo people) for granted. If anyone beats them it will be Kerry or Dublin.
For the past year or two people have been saying Kerry are a team on the way down. But every year they seem to prove those people wrong. I wouldn't be shocked if they got beat in the quarter final but I wouldn't be shocked if they won it either. Nothing Kerry do shocks me anymore.
Quote from: muppet on April 04, 2012, 07:49:40 PM
I will bet you a hundred quid one of them won't win it out!
:D :D
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 04, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 04, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 04, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 03, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Think it will be a Cork - Kerry final and as much as it pains me to say it, Kerry will win because we can't beat them at Croke Park.
Dublin and Tyrone also there I think.
The double-header final. An interesting new development in our games.
;D Ah, you know what I mean. Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone the main contenders for me.
You know Mayo more than likely and maybe Kildare, Donegal or Meath (I think despite their slide, they can be a dangerous obstacle) will take 1 if not 2 of those 4 you mentioned out before the semis.
Yeah, like a dead cow, decomposing in a field.
Just walk around it and keep going.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 04, 2012, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 04, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 04, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 04, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 03, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Think it will be a Cork - Kerry final and as much as it pains me to say it, Kerry will win because we can't beat them at Croke Park.
Dublin and Tyrone also there I think.
The double-header final. An interesting new development in our games.
;D Ah, you know what I mean. Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone the main contenders for me.
You know Mayo more than likely and maybe Kildare, Donegal or Meath (I think despite their slide, they can be a dangerous obstacle) will take 1 if not 2 of those 4 you mentioned out before the semis.
Yeah, like a dead cow, decomposing in a field.
Just walk around it and keep going.
The dead cow probably has more chance of winning the AI this year.
The Galway boys must be loving this thread. I can't understand how they're not on it. They have a very good manager and will win Connacht this year imo and could cause a few shocks in Croker later on. I also happen to think they will beat Kildare on Sunday as well. I don't know why, but it's just a hunch.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 04, 2012, 08:56:33 PM
The Galway boys must be loving this thread. I can't understand how they're not on it. They have a very good manager and will win Connacht this year imo and could cause a few shocks in Croker later on. I also happen to think they will beat Kildare on Sunday as well. I don't know why, but it's just a hunch.
The new manager will need time to find his best 15 and the U-21s coming through need time to develop, will be a few years before Galway are All Ireland contenders.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 04, 2012, 08:56:33 PM
The Galway boys must be loving this thread. I can't understand how they're not on it. They have a very good manager and will win Connacht this year imo and could cause a few shocks in Croker later on. I also happen to think they will beat Kildare on Sunday as well. I don't know why, but it's just a hunch.
They have a very good u-21 manager. Don't bet anything on Galway emerging from the Hyde with a victory, let alone winning Connacht. They'd have to beat Roscommon, Sligo and Mayo to do that and for a team in full rebuild mode that's alot to expect. Galway would probably find happier hunting grounds in the qualifiers.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 04, 2012, 08:56:33 PM
The Galway boys must be loving this thread. I can't understand how they're not on it. They have a very good manager and will win Connacht this year imo and could cause a few shocks in Croker later on. I also happen to think they will beat Kildare on Sunday as well. I don't know why, but it's just a hunch.
Sure Mayo just trounced the All-Ireland champions a few days ago. We managed to get one draw from games against Louth and Westmeath in division 2. Not to mention Mayo are on the easier side of the draw in Connacht. We'll have our hands full just trying to win our first game up in the Hyde at the end of May. Will we even see Michael Meehan back in a Galway jersey again? Looking doubtful at the moment.
Or in other words I wouldn't be rushing out to put any schekels on us just yet.
Yes, but if it was to end up being a Galway/Mayo Connacht Final, Galway would be in a great position going in with two tough games behind them and with home advantage in Salthill. Mayo could well go in to such a game having not had a tough match in three months and having little idea of players' championship form.
Galway will have a big task in getting to a Connacht final but they'll have a great chance of winning it if they get there. 7/2 Galway for Connacht is a great price.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 04, 2012, 07:33:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 04, 2012, 06:33:42 PM
I have a feeling at least one of Cork and Kerry will be in for a shock this year. Alot of key personnel on both teams are getting on and there's plenty of reasons to think they could be more vulnerable than established logic dictates, both panels are past their peaks.
Most of Kerry's defenders are over 30 them guys will need to be replaced. Cork are made up from those two U-21s winning teams in 2007,2009 along way from past their peak yet.
Cork have quite a few players who are pushing on,whereas Kerry have a team that comprises of alot of key men approaching the end of their careers.
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 05, 2012, 08:50:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 04, 2012, 07:33:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 04, 2012, 06:33:42 PM
I have a feeling at least one of Cork and Kerry will be in for a shock this year. Alot of key personnel on both teams are getting on and there's plenty of reasons to think they could be more vulnerable than established logic dictates, both panels are past their peaks.
Most of Kerry's defenders are over 30 them guys will need to be replaced. Cork are made up from those two U-21s winning teams in 2007,2009 along way from past their peak yet.
Cork have quite a few players who are pushing on,whereas Kerry have a team that comprises of alot of key men approaching the end of their careers.
Cork have quiet a few young players as well. I don't think Kerry are finished just yet.
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 05, 2012, 08:50:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 04, 2012, 07:33:26 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 04, 2012, 06:33:42 PM
I have a feeling at least one of Cork and Kerry will be in for a shock this year. Alot of key personnel on both teams are getting on and there's plenty of reasons to think they could be more vulnerable than established logic dictates, both panels are past their peaks.
Most of Kerry's defenders are over 30 them guys will need to be replaced. Cork are made up from those two U-21s winning teams in 2007,2009 along way from past their peak yet.
Cork have quite a few players who are pushing on,whereas Kerry have a team that comprises of alot of key men approaching the end of their careers.
Yeah. Kerry are older but by very little. Most of the key players like Canty, Kissane, O'Connor and O'Neil are all north of thirty. O'Leary is going to be the same in less than a month. I think it's a little skewed to say the spine of the current Cork team is the younger players, only Goulding, Shields and Walsh (and without trying to set a cat amongst the pigeons, Walsh is a good player who has been hyped up too much for someone still only earning his stripes) have really emerged to the level of what was there before them and Cadogan isn't even available for most of the year.
Cork are fully capable of winning another All-Ireland this year, but they're not as foreboding a threat now and if they were to do it'll be because the old guard summon up one last rattle. It simply could go anywhere for Cork this year, further south from last year or a second Sam.
thankfully cork cannot remove the idea that they are much better than mayo from their heads, cork were given a 5 point lead in croke park and were reeled in and beaten by an inferior team in their own minds.Im not saying Mayo will win the allireland, but they will probably take one of kerry,cork,dublin or tyrone out before they finally go themselves.
tyrone were jumping for joy when they got mayo in the 2004 championship draw,an easy route for them. things seldom go to plan if you are that sure of yourself. dublin 2006 was another example, a book release ready for the dublin kerry final that never happened.
and of course, london almost caught mayo last year, while longford did the year before.
Cork have two of the best young footballers in the country in Aidan Walsh and Ciaran Sheehan. I'm pretty sure Paul Kerrigan and Paddy Kelly are both under 25. Colm O'Neil is a great forward and was under 21 3 or 4 years ago. We probably have as many players who are under 25 as we have who are over 30.
Quote from: mannix on April 05, 2012, 01:08:44 PM
thankfully cork cannot remove the idea that they are much better than mayo from their heads, cork were given a 5 point lead in croke park and were reeled in and beaten by an inferior team in their own minds.Im not saying Mayo will win the allireland, but they will probably take one of kerry,cork,dublin or tyrone out before they finally go themselves.
tyrone were jumping for joy when they got mayo in the 2004 championship draw,an easy route for them. things seldom go to plan if you are that sure of yourself. dublin 2006 was another example, a book release ready for the dublin kerry final that never happened.
Arrah, plenty of teams can beat Mayo, in Connacht and outside the 'top four'. Mayo are the ultimate swing team and it amazes me no end that Mayoeens never seem to realise that. I can't ever remember a year in my entire life where I could say Mayo were at all sure of a Connacht title.
Cork might win the All-Ireland press-ups championship alright.
Quote from: CorkMan on April 05, 2012, 01:17:44 PM
Colm O'Neil is a great forward and was under 21 3 or 4 years ago.
I'd say he was promising. Has he started two championship games back to back or even a single game?
Quote from: Syferus on April 05, 2012, 01:36:06 PM
Quote from: mannix on April 05, 2012, 01:08:44 PM
thankfully cork cannot remove the idea that they are much better than mayo from their heads, cork were given a 5 point lead in croke park and were reeled in and beaten by an inferior team in their own minds.Im not saying Mayo will win the allireland, but they will probably take one of kerry,cork,dublin or tyrone out before they finally go themselves.
tyrone were jumping for joy when they got mayo in the 2004 championship draw,an easy route for them. things seldom go to plan if you are that sure of yourself. dublin 2006 was another example, a book release ready for the dublin kerry final that never happened.
Arrah, plenty of teams can beat Mayo, in Connacht and outside the 'top four'. Mayo are the ultimate swing team and it amazes me no end that Mayoeens never seem to realise that. I can't ever remember a year in my entire life where I could say Mayo were at all sure of a Connacht title.
thats what i just said! you dropped the longford and london piece of the end for some reason. london were the second worst team in the championship last year and mayo had a very hard time beating them. plenty of teams can beat kerry too, tyrone did, down did, dublin did, meath did, etc etc.
my point is that nobody can be sure of victory because on the day the underdog might have more bite than bark.
Quote from: heffo on April 05, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 05, 2012, 01:17:44 PM
Colm O'Neil is a great forward and was under 21 3 or 4 years ago.
I'd say he was promising. Has he started two championship games back to back or even a single game?
He was our starting full-forward in 2009. Won the game against Dublin off the bench almost on his own in 2010 and was injured last year. He is a class act and it is a real indicator of the strength of Corks forward line that Colm O'Neill doesn't get in.
Quote from: CorkMan on April 05, 2012, 09:17:11 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 05, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 05, 2012, 01:17:44 PM
Colm O'Neil is a great forward and was under 21 3 or 4 years ago.
I'd say he was promising. Has he started two championship games back to back or even a single game?
He was our starting full-forward in 2009. Won the game against Dublin off the bench almost on his own in 2010 and was injured last year. He is a class act and it is a real indicator of the strength of Corks forward line that Colm O'Neill doesn't get in.
Forgot he started a couple of games in 2009.
I thought Ross McConnell won that game for ye in 2010 though, not O'Neill
Cork's forwards rarely have made much of an impression on me in their period of being near the top of the chain.
Goulding and Pearse O'Neil would be the best, but O'Neil has went missing far too much. Cork win by fielding good ball in the middle - mostly by Nicolas Murphy, even in 2010 - and flooding the channel with backs. It's the ability of Cork's backs to score or at least be a threat that's been their strength, not their forwards.
Quote from: Syferus on April 06, 2012, 05:41:47 AM
Cork's forwards rarely have made much of an impression on me in their period of being near the top of the chain.
Goulding and Pearse O'Neil would be the best, but O'Neil has went missing far too much. Cork win by fielding good ball in the middle - mostly by Nicolas Murphy, even in 2010 - and flooding the channel with backs. It's the ability of Cork's backs to score or at least be a threat that's been their strength, not their forwards.
Is this a wind up?
O'Neill is 32 and hasn't done a lot in recent years. Pa Kelly seems to be preferred nowadays at 11 which tells you who Cork think is the better footballer. Then you ignore Donncha O'Connor. ::)
Quote from: muppet on April 06, 2012, 11:32:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 06, 2012, 05:41:47 AM
Cork's forwards rarely have made much of an impression on me in their period of being near the top of the chain.
Goulding and Pearse O'Neil would be the best, but O'Neil has went missing far too much. Cork win by fielding good ball in the middle - mostly by Nicolas Murphy, even in 2010 - and flooding the channel with backs. It's the ability of Cork's backs to score or at least be a threat that's been their strength, not their forwards.
Is this a wind up?
O'Neill is 32 and hasn't done a lot in recent years. Pa Kelly seems to be preferred nowadays at 11 which tells you who Cork think is the better footballer. Then you ignore Donncha O'Connor. ::)
I don't rate Donncha O'Connor as being head and shoulders above what's around him. He's 31 himself so it's not worth bringing up O'Neil's age is as a comparison.
Cork's team is build on size and physicality and very few of the players stand out in that context. They're mostly of a good level and they're the best
team in that sense. It still doesn't mean they're as good as they were in 2009 or 2010.
Quote from: Syferus on April 06, 2012, 12:15:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 06, 2012, 11:32:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 06, 2012, 05:41:47 AM
Cork's forwards rarely have made much of an impression on me in their period of being near the top of the chain.
Goulding and Pearse O'Neil would be the best, but O'Neil has went missing far too much. Cork win by fielding good ball in the middle - mostly by Nicolas Murphy, even in 2010 - and flooding the channel with backs. It's the ability of Cork's backs to score or at least be a threat that's been their strength, not their forwards.
Is this a wind up?
O'Neill is 32 and hasn't done a lot in recent years. Pa Kelly seems to be preferred nowadays at 11 which tells you who Cork think is the better footballer. Then you ignore Donncha O'Connor. ::)
I don't rate Donncha O'Connor as being head and shoulders above what's around him. Cork's team is build on size and physicality and very few of the players stand out in that context. They're mostly of a good level and they're the best team in that sense. It still doesn't mean they're as good as they were in 2009 or 2010.
You don't even rate him as good as O'Neill or Goulding.
I would guess most teams in the last few years would start their best defender on O'Connor. He too is now the wrong side of 30 so we may have seen the best of him but I have seen him win a League Final on his own and for me he was the key man in the 2010 final.
Quote from: heffo on April 05, 2012, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 05, 2012, 09:17:11 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 05, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 05, 2012, 01:17:44 PM
Colm O'Neil is a great forward and was under 21 3 or 4 years ago.
I'd say he was promising. Has he started two championship games back to back or even a single game?
He was our starting full-forward in 2009. Won the game against Dublin off the bench almost on his own in 2010 and was injured last year. He is a class act and it is a real indicator of the strength of Corks forward line that Colm O'Neill doesn't get in.
Forgot he started a couple of games in 2009.
I thought Ross McConnell won that game for ye in 2010 though, not O'Neill
He did his job too, but it was O'Neill who won the penalty and he got another point after that.
Quote from: Syferus on April 06, 2012, 12:15:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 06, 2012, 11:32:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 06, 2012, 05:41:47 AM
Cork's forwards rarely have made much of an impression on me in their period of being near the top of the chain.
Goulding and Pearse O'Neil would be the best, but O'Neil has went missing far too much. Cork win by fielding good ball in the middle - mostly by Nicolas Murphy, even in 2010 - and flooding the channel with backs. It's the ability of Cork's backs to score or at least be a threat that's been their strength, not their forwards.
Is this a wind up?
O'Neill is 32 and hasn't done a lot in recent years. Pa Kelly seems to be preferred nowadays at 11 which tells you who Cork think is the better footballer. Then you ignore Donncha O'Connor. ::)
I don't rate Donncha O'Connor as being head and shoulders above what's around him. He's 31 himself so it's not worth bringing up O'Neil's age is as a comparison.
Cork's team is build on size and physicality and very few of the players stand out in that context. They're mostly of a good level and they're the best team in that sense. It still doesn't mean they're as good as they were in 2009 or 2010.
Pearse O'Neill's best years are behind him. He seems to be able to turn it on against teams like Roscommon and then when he's really needed against Dublin or Kerry, he goes missing. Daniel Goulding, though, is one of the best forwards in the country. Donncha O'Connor may be 31 but he can still do it. He's proved that with some of his displays in the league so far.
Cork were at there best in 2009, when they're forwards would come onto the ball at pace and break through tackles. 2010 and 2011 they have been too slow with they're build up play. If they could go back to what they were doing in 2009, imo they'd be the best team in the country.
Ciaran Sheehan is Corks best forward, Kelly would be next and Colm O'Neill is a phenomenal talent. Goulding is nowhere near Cork's best forward and Peirce O'Neill shouldn't even be mentioned in the discussion. Cork still have plenty of talent but it seems quite clear that the suspicions of many about the management is well founded. IMO they have wasted a very talented bunch of players and should be got rid of at the end of the year irrespective of how they go this year. Cork may win another All Ireland with them but they won't fulfill their potential under them.
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2012, 03:25:23 PM
Ciaran Sheehan is Corks best forward, Kelly would be next and Colm O'Neill is a phenomenal talent. Goulding is nowhere near Cork's best forward and Peirce O'Neill shouldn't even be mentioned in the discussion. Cork still have plenty of talent but it seems quite clear that the suspicions of many about the management is well founded. IMO they have wasted a very talented bunch of players and should be got rid of at the end of the year irrespective of how they go this year. Cork may win another All Ireland with them but they won't fulfill their potential under them.
Ciaran Sheehan proably is our best forward. Goulding would be second, O'Neill or O'Connor next and then Pa Kelly. Pearse O'Neill should be a sub.
If Cork sped up the build up play, other teams wouldn't stand a chance against them.
I wouldn't agree on Goulding CorkMan, I thought he might become a top forward and he is undoubtedly talented but Kelly is a far more rounded footballer and is far more important (frees aside) than Goulding. The one thing I would say in Gouldings favour is that the service to the full forwards is far too slow and infrequent but I think O'Connor makes more of what he gets than Goulding.
No way is Kelly Cork's 5th best forward - he makes you tick. Class act.
Him and Sheehan very different.
The year Cork beasted Tyrone was their best year. Last year they were looking good and blew it. If they play to their best I think they can hammer everything in front of them (assuming the Kerry hoodoo doesn't wreck them mentally). However that's a big if.
I'd like to see them and Dublin play. I don't think Cork's style would suit Dublin and would be interested to see the outcome.
I think Cork can beat Dublin however I don't think Cork can beat Kerry but I think Dublin could. All depends on draws...
It will be interesting to see how Cork use Aidan Walsh come championship - they seem to like the idea of him at FF but I don't think that will be suitable come championship. Counihan seems to be thinking there's a lack of physical presence in the FF line.
I think Walsh could be effective in full forward but they don't put the ball into the right areas and at the right height, do that and there isn't a fullback in the country who won't have serious problems on him.
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2012, 03:37:18 PM
I wouldn't agree on Goulding CorkMan, I thought he might become a top forward and he is undoubtedly talented but Kelly is a far more rounded footballer and is far more important (frees aside) than Goulding. The one thing I would say in Gouldings favour is that the service to the full forwards is far too slow and infrequent but I think O'Connor makes more of what he gets than Goulding.
At least someone agrees with me there.
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2012, 03:46:50 PM
I think Walsh could be effective in full forward but they don't put the ball into the right areas and at the right height, do that and there isn't a fullback in the country who won't have serious problems on him.
I think he's a good option to have there but we need him in midfield. Pearse O'Neill wouldn't last a full game at midfield imo.
No I agree, I'd play him midfield too, Cork have full forward options already and it's unlikely they can be programed to put the right type of ball into a big full forward at this stage anyway.
Quick ball to the full forwards and they are serious contenders for the all ireland. Putting Walsh full forward would be like Kerry with Donaghy. Only, Walsh isn't as good as Donaghy.
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2012, 03:37:18 PM
I wouldn't agree on Goulding CorkMan, I thought he might become a top forward and he is undoubtedly talented but Kelly is a far more rounded footballer and is far more important (frees aside) than Goulding. The one thing I would say in Gouldings favour is that the service to the full forwards is far too slow and infrequent but I think O'Connor makes more of what he gets than Goulding.
Hallelujah!
Two years ago if I could have robbed 3 forwards in the country O'Connor would have been the only Cork candidate.
Now Cork have young talent that might move him down to 2nd or 3rd in the pecking order but he is still a serious player with any ball within shooting range.
Quote from: CorkMan on April 06, 2012, 04:01:47 PM
Quick ball to the full forwards and they are serious contenders for the all ireland. Putting Walsh full forward would be like Kerry with Donaghy. Only, Walsh isn't as good as Donaghy.
I don't think he's as well suited to FF as Donaghy is but out the field I think he's a better option and will develop into one of the better midfielders about in a couple of years.
I think he's one of the best fielders of the ball at the moment and if he learned how to pass and shoot he'd be one of the best midfielders in the game.
I think O'Connor is comfortably Cork's best forward at present - the one 'go to' guy you would want the chances to fall to in a tight game. I wouldn't see Walsh starting at full-forward as been a realistic option in the summer, for a number of reasons, one of which is that O'Connor and Colm O'Neill play better at 14 than in the corners. With the form he is in at present I think you need to play O'Connor in whatever position he can be most effective in.
Goulding is a finisher, give him chances and he will punish you but Goulding isn't going to change a game on his own. Kelly is the player that pulls the strings but doesn't pick up too many of the headlines. If you stop Kelly, you limit a lot of Cork's creative supply to the inside line. Kerry and Mayo have done a good job of curbing his influence in the big games last summer.
Sheehan I believe has the potential to be the best Cork forward since the great Cork team of 89/90. The sky is the limit for that guy if he gets a clean run with injuries. Hopefully he will, although dual commitments could be another potential factor at some point in the future.
Quote from: eviemonkey on April 06, 2012, 09:31:06 PM
I think O'Connor is comfortably Cork's best forward at present - the one 'go to' guy you would want the chances to fall to in a tight game. I wouldn't see Walsh starting at full-forward as been a realistic option in the summer, for a number of reasons, one of which is that O'Connor and Colm O'Neill play better at 14 than in the corners. With the form he is in at present I think you need to play O'Connor in whatever position he can be most effective in.
Goulding is a finisher, give him chances and he will punish you but Goulding isn't going to change a game on his own. Kelly is the player that pulls the strings but doesn't pick up too many of the headlines. If you stop Kelly, you limit a lot of Cork's creative supply to the inside line. Kerry and Mayo have done a good job of curbing his influence in the big games last summer.
Sheehan I believe has the potential to be the best Cork forward since the great Cork team of 89/90. The sky is the limit for that guy if he gets a clean run with injuries. Hopefully he will, although dual commitments could be another potential factor at some point in the future.
That's not the main reason though. I wouldn't play Walsh full forward because we have two of the best midfielders in the country, O'Connor and Walsh, but after those two we are very short of options in midfield. We need Walsh at midfield more than full forward.
Quote from: CorkMan on April 06, 2012, 04:01:47 PM
Quick ball to the full forwards and they are serious contenders for the all ireland. Putting Walsh full forward would be like Kerry with Donaghy. Only, Walsh isn't as good as Donaghy.
Quick balls to the forwards went out as a tactic circa 2002. Any county that simply lumps early ball into the forwards will be well beaten IMO.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 07, 2012, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 06, 2012, 04:01:47 PM
Quick ball to the full forwards and they are serious contenders for the all ireland. Putting Walsh full forward would be like Kerry with Donaghy. Only, Walsh isn't as good as Donaghy.
Quick balls to the forwards went out as a tactic circa 2002. Any county that simply lumps early ball into the forwards will be well beaten IMO.
Says who? Cork's forwards, with their size, benefit greatly from quick ball.
Quote from: Syferus on April 07, 2012, 01:22:23 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 07, 2012, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 06, 2012, 04:01:47 PM
Quick ball to the full forwards and they are serious contenders for the all ireland. Putting Walsh full forward would be like Kerry with Donaghy. Only, Walsh isn't as good as Donaghy.
Quick balls to the forwards went out as a tactic circa 2002. Any county that simply lumps early ball into the forwards will be well beaten IMO.
Says who? Cork's forwards, with their size, benefit greatly from quick ball.
They dont actually really because they arent good ball winners. I'm constantly amazed at the amount of people who preach just lump the ball into the full forward line. It works on a sporadic basis.
Quote from: Syferus on April 07, 2012, 01:22:23 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 07, 2012, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 06, 2012, 04:01:47 PM
Quick ball to the full forwards and they are serious contenders for the all ireland. Putting Walsh full forward would be like Kerry with Donaghy. Only, Walsh isn't as good as Donaghy.
Quick balls to the forwards went out as a tactic circa 2002. Any county that simply lumps early ball into the forwards will be well beaten IMO.
Says who? Cork's forwards, with their size, benefit greatly from quick ball.
The problem at the moment is that by the time the half back line and midfield have decided what pass to make, the forwards are marked and the opposition backs have organized themselves. The slow handpassing the backs have been doing the last two years seems very laboured. 2009 we had our half backs coming onto the ball at pace, breaking tackles and scoring or getting quick ball to the forwards. We were the best team in the country that year. If we go back to that we'd walk the All-Ireland.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 07, 2012, 01:58:04 PM
They dont actually really because they arent good ball winners. I'm constantly amazed at the amount of people who preach just lump the ball into the full forward line. It works on a sporadic basis.
Doesn't have to be long high ball. Just work the ball up the pitch quicker than we're doing or god quality ball into space.
QuoteI'm constantly amazed at the amount of people who preach just lump the ball into the full forward line.
Some people don't preach "lumping" the ball into the full forward line, they preach directing the ball into the full forward line. The latter approach greatly increases the chances of your man getting it. Instead the "modern" way is to faff about until everyone on both teams is in the same half and space is at a premium.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 07, 2012, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: CorkMan on April 06, 2012, 04:01:47 PM
Quick ball to the full forwards and they are serious contenders for the all ireland. Putting Walsh full forward would be like Kerry with Donaghy. Only, Walsh isn't as good as Donaghy.
Quick balls to the forwards went out as a tactic circa 2002.
Just as well nobody told Crossmaglen Rangers they're ten years behind the times or they mightn't have bothered showing up for the All-Ireland championship.
Worth noting that cross don't kick the ball in if there are cover players. They depend on teams defending naively - like garycastle - to play their prreferred game. You'llr probably find that any county team not facing cover players will kick the ball early in similar fashion. In the modern county game you are kicking it to 6 defenders with only 3 or 4 forwards.
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2012, 05:35:57 PM
Worth noting that cross don't kick the ball in if there are cover players. They depend on teams defending naively - like garycastle - to play their prreferred game. You'llr probably find that any county team not facing cover players will kick the ball early in similar fashion. In the modern county game you are kicking it to 6 defenders with only 3 or 4 forwards.
Yea, but if you have someone with pace in the corner like Kerrigan or Darran O'Sullivan you should kick it into space and let them use their pace to get there before the backs.
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2012, 05:35:57 PM
Worth noting that cross don't kick the ball in if there are cover players. They depend on teams defending naively - like garycastle - to play their prreferred game. You'llr probably find that any county team not facing cover players will kick the ball early in similar fashion. In the modern county game you are kicking it to 6 defenders with only 3 or 4 forwards.
Possibly the first thing we've ever agreed on.
Its amazing how some armagh posters(who claim to know a lot) dont even know how cross play. Staggering.
Quote from: CorkMan on April 07, 2012, 08:39:08 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2012, 05:35:57 PM
Worth noting that cross don't kick the ball in if there are cover players. They depend on teams defending naively - like garycastle - to play their prreferred game. You'llr probably find that any county team not facing cover players will kick the ball early in similar fashion. In the modern county game you are kicking it to 6 defenders with only 3 or 4 forwards.
Yea, but if you have someone with pace in the corner like Kerrigan or Darran O'Sullivan you should kick it into space and let them use their pace to get there before the backs.
The point being its a measured ball into them. Its not just a kick the ball into them and lets not worry about a cover defence, Its a tactic that cost kerry two all-irelands against tyrone in my view. If you watch kerry play now its markedly different and thats why.
Enlighten me Indiana please as having watched the team play and train once or twice more than most this year and I believe that the main tactic is to play fast ball into the FF line ASAP. But maybe you know better...?
Quote from: INDIANA on April 07, 2012, 09:13:12 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2012, 05:35:57 PM
Worth noting that cross don't kick the ball in if there are cover players. They depend on teams defending naively - like garycastle - to play their prreferred game. You'llr probably find that any county team not facing cover players will kick the ball early in similar fashion. In the modern county game you are kicking it to 6 defenders with only 3 or 4 forwards.
Possibly the first thing we've ever agreed on.
Its amazing how some armagh posters(who claim to know a lot) dont even know how cross play. Staggering.
It would be more amazing if anybody valued your opinion. I await your reply to brokencrossbar with great interest.
Well it is all about to begin. IMO there is no stand out favourite and is as open as it has ever been. Can't wait :)
I'm going to call it and say Cork will win it. They may be jinxed though with me predicting them!
I think the All Ireland is open enough this year. The usual suspects of Dublin, Kerry and Cork will be thereabouts but of all the teams that played Armagh this year Mayo impressed me the most. With a good draw they could make an All Ireland final - and get beat again of course. Would love it if an outsider could make a run for it much as Down did a couple of years ago.
Kildare are bound to come good at some point, have been knocking at the door since McGeeney took over.
Quote from: LongRange on May 14, 2012, 12:00:23 PM
Kildare are bound to come good at some point, have been knocking at the door since McGeeney took over.
Not necessarily. It might have got as good as it gets for them.
Quote from: moysider on May 14, 2012, 12:12:54 PM
Quote from: LongRange on May 14, 2012, 12:00:23 PM
Kildare are bound to come good at some point, have been knocking at the door since McGeeney took over.
Not necessarily. It might have got as good as it gets for them.
Or it might not have
Quote from: LongRange on May 14, 2012, 01:18:19 PM
Quote from: moysider on May 14, 2012, 12:12:54 PM
Quote from: LongRange on May 14, 2012, 12:00:23 PM
Kildare are bound to come good at some point, have been knocking at the door since McGeeney took over.
Not necessarily. It might have got as good as it gets for them.
Or it might not have
Na, Kildare have peaked. Geezer's fittness work can take them so far but they are missing a couple of players with that special spark that is needed in the summer game.
Meath 50/1
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0514/1224316063153.html
How many years would you have to go back to get a price as bad as that ?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on April 07, 2012, 09:43:28 PM
Enlighten me Indiana please as having watched the team play and train once or twice more than most this year and I believe that the main tactic is to play fast ball into the FF line ASAP. But maybe you know better...?
Seems to have been missed by Indy there BC :D What amazes me is people who assume that direct, quick ball is the same as high hopeful punts.
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2012, 03:31:01 PM
Meath 50/1
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0514/1224316063153.html
How many years would you have to go back to get a price as bad as that ?
Tasty 10/1 for the Leinster ...
Hold on to your money..
Hard to know with Kildare they have been unlucky the last few years but they need to win at least a Leinster title this summer that alone would be achievement. Cork after last year will looking to do better but can they beat Kerry in Croke park? Donegal if more adventurous will be a tough team to beat.Not sure is any team in Connacht are capable of bringing home the big prize yet. Interesting championship ahead looking forward to it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 14, 2012, 03:40:27 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on April 07, 2012, 09:43:28 PM
Enlighten me Indiana please as having watched the team play and train once or twice more than most this year and I believe that the main tactic is to play fast ball into the FF line ASAP. But maybe you know better...?
Seems to have been missed by Indy there BC :D What amazes me is people who assume that direct, quick ball is the same as high hopeful punts.
Careful now. That post consumes most of the site's sense-quota for the day.
Kildare will win shag all with their team of robots.
Plus Seanie.
Quote from: Jinxy on May 14, 2012, 09:04:27 PM
Kildare will win shag all with their team of robots.
Plus Seanie.
Only a heart of stone could begrudge Kildare an all-Ireland
Or otherwise a heart embittered by a succession of managerial flops culminating in Banty
Seafoid, you seem to have an unhealthy Meath obsession. Forget about us. We're crap.
Write something about Galway for a change. There must be something worth commenting on with the championship just around the corner. I'll let you know when we're worthy of your attention again.
Is Seafóid from Galway?
Quote from: Jinxy on May 14, 2012, 09:57:11 PM
Is Seafóid from Galway?
Yes. He writes a lot of stuff about us too. I'd say his ultimate rematch for the All-Ireland would be a Mayo v Meath one! ;D
You should never kick a Meath man when he,s down.
Quote from: rrhf on May 14, 2012, 10:32:36 PM
You should never kick a Meath man when he,s down.
True- Meath men were always clean,innocent, alterboyisque on the field
Quote from: Jinxy on May 14, 2012, 09:57:11 PM
Is Seafóid from Galway?
Do You mean County Galway or Galway City Corporation/Council? As the Roscommon folk seem to assert that your county is the administrative area rather than the traditional county.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 14, 2012, 11:47:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 14, 2012, 09:57:11 PM
Is Seafóid from Galway?
Do You mean County Galway or Galway City Corporation/Council? As the Roscommon folk seem to assert that your county is the administrative area rather than the traditional county.
Will Galway ever have Mayo man as captain?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 14, 2012, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 14, 2012, 11:47:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 14, 2012, 09:57:11 PM
Is Seafóid from Galway?
Do You mean County Galway or Galway City Corporation/Council? As the Roscommon folk seem to assert that your county is the administrative area rather than the traditional county.
Will Galway ever have Mayo man as captain?
I bet half them were born in Portiuncula. Not that I'm revealing my shameful secret identity or anything.
Quote from: Syferus on May 15, 2012, 12:40:07 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 14, 2012, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 14, 2012, 11:47:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 14, 2012, 09:57:11 PM
Is Seafóid from Galway?
Do You mean County Galway or Galway City Corporation/Council? As the Roscommon folk seem to assert that your county is the administrative area rather than the traditional county.
Will Galway ever have Mayo man as captain?
I bet half them were born in Portiuncula. Not that I'm revealing my shameful secret identity or anything.
:D
That Irish Times guide to the championship is interesting.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0514/1224316063153.html
Fermanagh and Wicklow (plus London) are the only counties never to have won a senior provincial title in football. Even Carlow and Westmeath have one.
Quote from: sans pessimism on May 14, 2012, 11:18:38 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 14, 2012, 10:32:36 PM
You should never kick a Meath man when he,s down.
True- Meath men were always clean,innocent, alterboyisque on the field
Somehow an insult in gibberish doesn't have quite the intended impact.
Quote from: Hardy on May 15, 2012, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: sans pessimism on May 14, 2012, 11:18:38 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 14, 2012, 10:32:36 PM
You should never kick a Meath man when he,s down.
True- Meath men were always clean,innocent, alterboyisque on the field
Somehow an insult in gibberish doesn't have quite the intended impact.
I was going to say you should never kick a Meath man when he's down because he's liable to bite your ankle off.
Quote from: Hardy on May 14, 2012, 09:32:36 PM
Seafoid, you seem to have an unhealthy Meath obsession. Forget about us. We're crap.
Write something about Galway for a change. There must be something worth commenting on with the championship just around the corner. I'll let you know when we're worthy of your attention again.
Hardy
The fans are reasonably stable at the moment in Galway.
Meath is far more interesting.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 15, 2012, 10:18:27 AM
Quote from: Hardy on May 15, 2012, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: sans pessimism on May 14, 2012, 11:18:38 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 14, 2012, 10:32:36 PM
You should never kick a Meath man when he,s down.
True- Meath men were always clean,innocent, alterboyisque on the field
Somehow an insult in gibberish doesn't have quite the intended impact.
I was going to say you should never kick a Meath man when he's down because he's liable to bite your ankle off.
That's more like it, AZ.
Cork
Kerry
Dublin
Gap
Tyrone
Kildare
Mayo
Donegal
Down
Gap
The Rest
Gap
Eastmeath
Irish Post preview backs Kerry, with Cork as finalists and Dublin and Kildare as semi-finalists:
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/index.php/component/content/article/27-comment-a-analysis/407-the-hunt-for-sam-maguire-
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on May 18, 2012, 11:51:04 AM
Irish Post preview backs Kerry, with Cork as finalists and Dublin and Kildare as semi-finalists:
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/index.php/component/content/article/27-comment-a-analysis/407-the-hunt-for-sam-maguire-
That was brave speculation on their part.
Lads, much as it pains me to say it, I think Kerry will win the all Ireland this year. Will have Cork beaten in the semi final and avenge last years AI in the final against Dublin. Wouldn't mind seeing Kildare win it though.
Would say Kerry are easily the weakest of the top three. Obviously after 2009 it's hard to ever write them off but the legs on some of the old stagers will buckle one of these days and it could be spectacular.
Every year for the last few years people, myself included, have been saying they're getting on, they're a team on the way down, but they always prove us wrong. I'd love to see them get knocked out in the Munster semi-final and then in the qualifiers but they won't. I don't think they're the weakest of the top 3 and will prove people who say they're too old wrong again this year.
The 'cute Cork hoor' doesn't have the same effect does it?
Cork,Dublin,Kerry any others?
Cork or Donegal I feel may win the All Ireland.............................. kerry had theirs today beating a rebuilding tyrone...................................Dublin are there for the taking........................................anybody bar kildare or kerry please god
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on July 21, 2012, 09:50:47 PM
Cork or Donegal I feel may win the All Ireland.............................. kerry had theirs today beating a rebuilding tyrone...................................Dublin are there for the taking........................................anybody bar kildare or kerry please god
TRIMMERS 4 SAM!
(Banty 4 Bam)
Donegal added to the list.
yeah, its gotta be Donegal now.
For sure.
Or maybe Dublin?
No..Definitely Donegal.
I think.
Kerry were looking good though on Saturday.
No f**k it - its Donegal.
Or maybe Cork?
aye - they're handy this year. Or Dublin?
naw...it has to be Done.....
wide open! much more exciting now a few more teams are in the frame. there's more dangerous ties out there for the traditional powers and that can pave the way for others to win it outright. i think we can go all the way, but if we don't, we'll go out in a big hair and spandexed bon jovi blaze of glory.
apart from ourselves, i'd love to see down, mayo or sligo do the biz.
There's a long way to go yet. How were Kerry rated this time last week? A month ago everyone was raving about kildare. There's far too much knee jerk analysis based on single games, when anything can happen. The real stuff starts in two weeks. I'd still fear the likes of kildare in the quarters.
Hope Donegal keep going, but at the very least its good to see a few of the boys who were predicting us as one season wonders shut up!
It's sorta sad that Clare are completely off the radar on this board (Don't think there is even a stream on them v Kerry), Like Limerick drawing Kerry in the Quarters last year, when the other Munster counties (outside of Kerry and Cork) draw Kerry or Cork in the back door there is an inevitability about the result . It would have been nice to see Clare draw Kildare or Laois. I hope it's a good game but for Kerry i fear it's will probably be like a weekend off in preparation for the quarters. A break they probably need as much emotionally as physically.
Mayo have to come good at some stage so why not this year?
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2012, 08:34:54 PM
Mayo have to come good at some stage so why not this year?
They are the forgotten team. Simply because they have played two low profile games. Even the Connacht final was low key because Galway were not in it (and Sligo have been clearly better than them in the championship for the past 3 years or more).
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2012, 08:34:54 PM
Mayo have to come good at some stage so why not this year?
Quit stirring ;D Seafóid by name and ...... only messin.
Mayo are not in the end game. Check out the odds. Last 8 and still 14/1. Top 4 are 3/1 or less. We were as short before a ball was kicked. There's a reason for this.
It's Cork or Donegal. The winner of that game has Sam.
Quote from: ONeill on July 25, 2012, 12:29:52 AM
It's Cork or Donegal. The winner of that game has Sam.
Dublin won't give up their All Ireland without a fight and Kerry could be drawn with Cork or Donegal.
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2012, 08:34:54 PM
Mayo have to come good at some stage so why not this year?
As one local pundit said to me the other week, "any team that can leave Conor Mortimer aside has to be winning all irelands"
Mayo at 14/1 are undoubtedly the value bet. Especially if the QF draw puts Kerry on the opposite side, they'll only have Dublin of the Bookies Top 4 in their half of the draw.
Mayo could be vulnerable in the QF, given their lack of football, but if they get by that I'm sure they'll put in a big performance in the semi.
I'm looking forward to seeing Donegal in their upcoming games. Them v Kerry would be fascinating, as would a rematch of last year's QF v Kildare. I wonder though is there some parallels with Pillar Caffrey's Dublin team - defending their provincial title in style, with relative ease, perhaps slightly masking that the standard in that province has dropped a bit.
Like most of the bookies I'd still rate Cork as the best team (interestingly Boyles go against everyone else and have Kerry as favs).
Quote from: maddog on July 25, 2012, 09:27:43 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2012, 08:34:54 PM
Mayo have to come good at some stage so why not this year?
As one local pundit said to me the other week, "any team that can leave Conor Mortimer aside has to be winning all irelands"
What a shite pundit so.
Crazy to rate Kerry favourites after one good win in a sea of mediocrity (by their own standards) . The provincial winners are still ahead of them and I'd fancy Kildare to cause them all sorts of problems, not least with their fitness.
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 01:19:31 PM
Crazy to rate Kerry favourites after one good win in a sea of mediocrity (by their own standards) . The provincial winners are still ahead of them and I'd fancy Kildare to cause them all sorts of problems, not least with their fitness.
After the way they played against Meath and Limerick ?
Or the way they played against Cavan ?
Form is temporary, age is permanent, so to speak.
The 2012 All Ireland Championship will be won by one of the following five Cork, Dublin/Donegal, Mayo/Kerry. Cork, Donegal and the Dubs stand out for me, Mayo have been impressive this year and I like the look of some of their players such as Vaughan, McLaughlin, Moran and O'Connor although I'm still not convinced if they'll win the All Ireland, James Horan has done a fantastic job to date and I would love to see them end their All Ireland hoodoo. Kerry despite the impressive win over Tyrone aren't as great as some may think after that win although on their day they could beat any of the above if they all preform.
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 01:57:36 PM
Form is temporary, age is permanent, so to speak.
proof of a classless irish society if it was ever needed right there.
My order of preference for the teams I see as broad contenders :
1) Down (for obvious reasons)
2) Meath
3) Laois
4) Kerry (just delighted they put Tyrone out!)
5) Donegal
6) Mayo (have had too many wasted opportunities)
7) Cork (still can't stand the thug O'Leary)
8 ) Kildare (have been the silly billy county all year)
9) Dublin (they had it last year)
I know Tipp will now prob put us out on Saturday !
We could be dangerous if Horan gets the balance in our full forward line right but maybe next year we'll be when we are at the peak of our development and then we'll find out if that's good enough?Putting my neck on the line though I would have Cork and Dublin as my favourites with Donegal snapping at their heels , with us , Kerry and Kildare bringing up the rear.
Quote from: Crete Boom on July 25, 2012, 02:43:48 PM
We could be dangerous if Horan gets the balance in our full forward line right but maybe next year we'll be when we are at the peak of our development and then we'll find out if that's good enough?Putting my neck on the line though I would have Cork and Dublin as my favourites with Donegal snapping at their heels , with us , Kerry and Kildare bringing up the rear.
Have not seen anything this year that we should be too concerned about. We have as good a chance this year as next year. Have a strong feeling we will do it - probably beating Cork in the final.
Quote from: cadence on July 25, 2012, 02:21:03 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 01:57:36 PM
Form is temporary, age is permanent, so to speak.
proof of a classless irish society if it was ever needed right there.
Yeah, because pointing out that a core of Kerry players are past the ages of peak performance is ageist.
Talk about proof of a reactionary Irish society ;)
Syferus embarrassing us again I see ::)
As I see it only Donegal have any hope of preventing Sam going back to one of the last 3 winners.
A lot will depend on who Kerry get in the Quarter Finals.
Then of course there's who plays well in August. The difference between the Provincials and August/September might not be quite as large as that between League and Championship but it's still significant.
What's the Semi final line up ?
Is it Connacht v Leinster and Ulster v Munster?
Yep semi-final is Connacht v Leinster and Munster v Ulster
Quote from: Mayo Mick on July 25, 2012, 03:19:55 PM
Quote from: Crete Boom on July 25, 2012, 02:43:48 PM
We could be dangerous if Horan gets the balance in our full forward line right but maybe next year we'll be when we are at the peak of our development and then we'll find out if that's good enough?Putting my neck on the line though I would have Cork and Dublin as my favourites with Donegal snapping at their heels , with us , Kerry and Kildare bringing up the rear.
Have not seen anything this year that we should be too concerned about. We have as good a chance this year as next year. Have a strong feeling we will do it - probably beating Cork in the final.
it's written in the stars Mick.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2012, 03:38:14 PM
Syferus embarrassing us again I see ::)
As I see it only Donegal have any hope of preventing Sam going back to one of the last 3 winners.
A lot will depend on who Kerry get in the Quarter Finals.
Then of course there's who plays well in August. The difference between the Provincials and August/September might not be quite as large as that between League and Championship but it's still significant.
What's the Semi final line up ?
Is it Connacht v Leinster and Ulster v Munster?
Only in your mind could stating that Kildare, the obvious #6 team, would be a trouble to Kerry, the #4 or 5, be seen as embarassing. Or are you trying to tell me the O'Se brothers' birth certs are lying?
Jesus, stop your one-man crusade.
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 03:31:26 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 25, 2012, 02:21:03 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 01:57:36 PM
Form is temporary, age is permanent, so to speak.
proof of a classless irish society if it was ever needed right there.
Yeah, because pointing out that a core of Kerry players are past the ages of peak performance is ageist.
Talk about proof of a reactionary Irish society ;)
methinks you say too much syferus. ;)
i'd have to agree with you though. they're just not quite as awesome as they used to be, but they probably still have enough in them to wipe the floor with everyone else. some good new players coming through too, whatshisface, the lad that closelined the tyrone player? a decent prospect i'd say... not one for messing about.
Quote from: cadence on July 25, 2012, 05:50:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 03:31:26 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 25, 2012, 02:21:03 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 01:57:36 PM
Form is temporary, age is permanent, so to speak.
proof of a classless irish society if it was ever needed right there.
Yeah, because pointing out that a core of Kerry players are past the ages of peak performance is ageist.
Talk about proof of a reactionary Irish society ;)
methinks you say too much syferus. ;)
i'd have to agree with you though. they're just not quite as awesome as they used to be, but they probably still have enough in them to wipe the floor with everyone else. some good new players coming through too, whatshisface, the lad that closelined the tyrone player? a decent prospect i'd say... not one for messing about.
I don't doubt they're there or thereabouts. Even though they're on the wane this is still perhaps the second or third best team to even play the game we're talknig about. They have plenty of room to fall and still be able to knock over the hot picks. I just wonder how mentally tired they'll be come the last twenty minutes of an AI QF - they've faded in a few big games in the last twelve months, Dublin in the AI final, Mayo in the league semi, it's so hard to quantify how hungry you can really be after so much success.
If a team is within a few of Kerry near the end of a QF I'd fancy their chances to pull it out. Kerry's best hope is to front-run as much as possible and not risk getting caught in a inch-for-inch battle because that's the situation that's most likely to lay their flaws bare.
Donegal to beat Dublin in the final.
Donegal will win Sam this year.
Only once in their history have Donegal won senior All Ireland semi final and that was 20 years ago. Saying that they blew a big chance last year.
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 06:01:45 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 25, 2012, 05:50:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 03:31:26 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 25, 2012, 02:21:03 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2012, 01:57:36 PM
Form is temporary, age is permanent, so to speak.
proof of a classless irish society if it was ever needed right there.
Yeah, because pointing out that a core of Kerry players are past the ages of peak performance is ageist.
Talk about proof of a reactionary Irish society ;)
methinks you say too much syferus. ;)
i'd have to agree with you though. they're just not quite as awesome as they used to be, but they probably still have enough in them to wipe the floor with everyone else. some good new players coming through too, whatshisface, the lad that closelined the tyrone player? a decent prospect i'd say... not one for messing about.
I don't doubt they're there or thereabouts. Even though they're on the wane this is still perhaps the second or third best team to even play the game we're talknig about. They have plenty of room to fall and still be able to knock over the hot picks. I just wonder how mentally tired they'll be come the last twenty minutes of an AI QF - they've faded in a few big games in the last twelve months, Dublin in the AI final, Mayo in the league semi, it's so hard to quantify how hungry you can really be after so much success.
If a team is within a few of Kerry near the end of a QF I'd fancy their chances to pull it out. Kerry's best hope is to front-run as much as possible and not risk getting caught in a inch-for-inch battle because that's the situation that's most likely to lay their flaws bare.
i know what you mean, but to my eyes, they are still tasty and we all know great teams who have been written off love proving the critics wrong. it will be over at some point, whether that is now i wouldn't be confident of, because most of them are in their prime, hovering just or even well below their 30s no? listening to gavin doing his impression of rocky (1) balboa (adrian! adrian!) at the weekend, it means a lot to them. he so looked and behaved like stallone, t'was class. kerry might just manange to blood a whole new crop of players and still keep winning it. and those that they have that are over 30, they're not doing that bad. look at sheehan. playing great stuff, lording it in midfield and slotting them over left right and centre. they'd annoy your head.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 25, 2012, 06:56:36 PM
Only once in their history have Donegal won senior All Ireland semi final and that was 20 years ago. Saying that they blew a big chance last year.
never ever understand why people talk about past statistics ? What has the last 125b years got to do with the current donegal team ? or any team. like talking about say "last 5 meeting" before a game even though the teams are different and it means nothign?!
Quote from: donegal_abu on July 25, 2012, 11:01:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 25, 2012, 06:56:36 PM
Only once in their history have Donegal won senior All Ireland semi final and that was 20 years ago. Saying that they blew a big chance last year.
never ever understand why people talk about past statistics ? What has the last 125b years got to do with the current donegal team ? or any team. like talking about say "last 5 meeting" before a game even though the teams are different and it means nothign?!
History means plenty. Ask Mayo about AI finals. Ask Roscommon about the belief they had against Sligo in 2010. Culture is what statistics can speak to at times and plenty of teams every yea let that rule their heads when it come crunch time.
i know what you mean, but to my eyes, they are still tasty and we all know great teams who have been written off love proving the critics wrong. it will be over at some point, whether that is now i wouldn't be confident of, because most of them are in their prime, hovering just or even well below their 30s no? listening to gavin doing his impression of rocky (1) balboa (adrian! adrian!) at the weekend, it means a lot to them. he so looked and behaved like stallone, t'was class. kerry might just manange to blood a whole new crop of players and still keep winning it. and those that they have that are over 30, they're not doing that bad. look at sheehan. playing great stuff, lording it in midfield and slotting them over left right and centre. they'd annoy your head.
[/quote]
Sheehan is only 25, same as darren o' sullivan i think!
I agree with all this, even if kerry only beat tyrone by a point i would have had them as big contenders. What have kildare done for anyone to even consider them as ahead of kerry in the pecking order? I think kildare have the potential to maybe go all the way, but they havn't shown us much to convince us, maybe they will next month when it matters.
Kerry are class, all their midfielders and forwards bar galvin are under 30 still. Granted they have 4 defenders in the 32-34 age group, but i know if i was picking a team today i would probably have the 2 o'se boys and brosnan in it. Look at the shape brosnan was in the other day compared to conor gormley who is a year younger.
Still, donegal and mayo final is the one i want
Donegal would win that final pulling up. They hammered us in the league in Ballyshannon and we have a poor overall record against them. Also they're a good bloody side too!
Donegal the most impressive team about. Very close to winning it last year imo. A bit of good fortune in the semi probably would have got them there. They have the best team and spread around the team enough of the best individuals as well. And they re more disciplined as well, compared to the other contenders - Dublin, Cork and Kerry. But also crucially they wont be bullied by those 3 either - like say Mayo was in league final - and that is going to be very important.
(http://gaa.ie/content/images/news/miscellaneous/FootballChampionshipLaunch2012.jpg)
(http://gaa.ie/content/images/news/miscellaneous/FootballChampionship2012_2(1).jpg)
Those poor lads. The indignities photographers inflict upon them.
Quote from: Orchardman on July 25, 2012, 11:35:34 PM
i know what you mean, but to my eyes, they are still tasty and we all know great teams who have been written off love proving the critics wrong. it will be over at some point, whether that is now i wouldn't be confident of, because most of them are in their prime, hovering just or even well below their 30s no? listening to gavin doing his impression of rocky (1) balboa (adrian! adrian!) at the weekend, it means a lot to them. he so looked and behaved like stallone, t'was class. kerry might just manange to blood a whole new crop of players and still keep winning it. and those that they have that are over 30, they're not doing that bad. look at sheehan. playing great stuff, lording it in midfield and slotting them over left right and centre. they'd annoy your head.
Sheehan is only 25, same as darren o' sullivan i think!
I agree with all this, even if kerry only beat tyrone by a point i would have had them as big contenders. What have kildare done for anyone to even consider them as ahead of kerry in the pecking order? I think kildare have the potential to maybe go all the way, but they havn't shown us much to convince us, maybe they will next month when it matters.
Kerry are class, all their midfielders and forwards bar galvin are under 30 still. Granted they have 4 defenders in the 32-34 age group, but i know if i was picking a team today i would probably have the 2 o'se boys and brosnan in it. Look at the shape brosnan was in the other day compared to conor gormley who is a year younger.
Still, donegal and mayo final is the one i want
[/quote]
thought sheehan was older than that.
kerry being over the hill is a myth, probably started by kerrymen.
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2012, 01:16:58 AM
Donegal the most impressive team about. Very close to winning it last year imo. A bit of good fortune in the semi probably would have got them there. They have the best team and spread around the team enough of the best individuals as well. And they re more disciplined as well, compared to the other contenders - Dublin, Cork and Kerry. But also crucially they wont be bullied by those 3 either - like say Mayo was in league final - and that is going to be very important.
Donegal haven't beaten a top side in the championship yet though - the other three have.
Donegal look impressive enroute to beating a bunch of also-rans, lets see how they do against the top sides and then we'll judge them.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 26, 2012, 12:19:08 AM
Donegal would win that final pulling up. They hammered us in the league in Ballyshannon and we have a poor overall record against them. Also they're a good bloody side too!
Jez, you are one depressing whore! :P
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2012, 01:16:58 AM
Donegal the most impressive team about. Very close to winning it last year imo. A bit of good fortune in the semi probably would have got them there. They have the best team and spread around the team enough of the best individuals as well. And they re more disciplined as well, compared to the other contenders - Dublin, Cork and Kerry. But also crucially they wont be bullied by those 3 either - like say Mayo was in league final - and that is going to be very important.
Donegal haven't beaten a top side in the championship yet though - the other three have.
Donegal look impressive enroute to beating a bunch of also-rans, lets see how they do against the top sides and then we'll judge them.
By top sides, you mean Cork, Kerry and Dublin? Who are the top sides they've beaten? Cork beat Kerry, fair enough, but who are the top sides Kerry and Dublin have beaten? Can't be Tyrone, because Donegal beat them. Who's the top side Dublin beat? Meath? Do you think think Meath are better than Donegal? Donegal are as good as anyone, and better than most.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 01:52:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2012, 01:16:58 AM
Donegal the most impressive team about. Very close to winning it last year imo. A bit of good fortune in the semi probably would have got them there. They have the best team and spread around the team enough of the best individuals as well. And they re more disciplined as well, compared to the other contenders - Dublin, Cork and Kerry. But also crucially they wont be bullied by those 3 either - like say Mayo was in league final - and that is going to be very important.
Donegal haven't beaten a top side in the championship yet though - the other three have.
Donegal look impressive enroute to beating a bunch of also-rans, lets see how they do against the top sides and then we'll judge them.
By top sides, you mean Cork, Kerry and Dublin? Who are the top sides they've beaten? Cork beat Kerry, fair enough, but who are the top sides Kerry and Dublin have beaten? Can't be Tyrone, because Donegal beat them. Who's the top side Dublin beat? Meath? Do you think think Meath are better than Donegal? Donegal are as good as anyone, and better than most.
All three of Cork, Kerry & Dublin have won the last three AI's therefore have proven they can beat top sides and have done so over the last number of years.
Donegal while looking impressive, have beaten no-one of consequence.
I will therefore hold off judgement until they do, and certainly wouldn't class a team with no AI's as 'good as anyone'.
Lolz at Paddy McBrearty's wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_McBrearty
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 01:52:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2012, 01:16:58 AM
Donegal the most impressive team about. Very close to winning it last year imo. A bit of good fortune in the semi probably would have got them there. They have the best team and spread around the team enough of the best individuals as well. And they re more disciplined as well, compared to the other contenders - Dublin, Cork and Kerry. But also crucially they wont be bullied by those 3 either - like say Mayo was in league final - and that is going to be very important.
Donegal haven't beaten a top side in the championship yet though - the other three have.
Donegal look impressive enroute to beating a bunch of also-rans, lets see how they do against the top sides and then we'll judge them.
By top sides, you mean Cork, Kerry and Dublin? Who are the top sides they've beaten? Cork beat Kerry, fair enough, but who are the top sides Kerry and Dublin have beaten? Can't be Tyrone, because Donegal beat them. Who's the top side Dublin beat? Meath? Do you think think Meath are better than Donegal? Donegal are as good as anyone, and better than most.
All three of Cork, Kerry & Dublin have won the last three AI's therefore have proven they can beat top sides and have done so over the last number of years.
Donegal while looking impressive, have beaten no-one of consequence.
I will therefore hold off judgement until they do, and certainly wouldn't class a team with no AI's as 'good as anyone'.
By that logic, you didn't rate Cork in 2010 or Dublin in 2011. Your methodology doesn't allow for first-time winners, even though first-time winners have happened in the past two years, and could happen this year too. It's up to yourself, but it seems very limiting to me.
I kind of agree with Heffo. I think we've a very good shot, based on what's happened so far this year, but the big tests are still to come. I'd still have Cork and Dublin as the teams to beat. If we get can through a tough quarter final against the likes of Kerry or Kildare, then I think hyping us as leading contenders would be justified.
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
I kind of agree with Heffo. I think we've a very good shot, based on what's happened so far this year, but the big tests are still to come. I'd still have Cork and Dublin as the teams to beat. If we get can through a tough quarter final against the likes of Kerry or Kildare, then I think hyping us as leading contenders would be justified.
You will be justified contenders. Always had a doft spot for Donegal folk, apart from McHugh!!
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 06:40:51 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 01:52:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2012, 01:16:58 AM
Donegal the most impressive team about. Very close to winning it last year imo. A bit of good fortune in the semi probably would have got them there. They have the best team and spread around the team enough of the best individuals as well. And they re more disciplined as well, compared to the other contenders - Dublin, Cork and Kerry. But also crucially they wont be bullied by those 3 either - like say Mayo was in league final - and that is going to be very important.
Donegal haven't beaten a top side in the championship yet though - the other three have.
Donegal look impressive enroute to beating a bunch of also-rans, lets see how they do against the top sides and then we'll judge them.
By top sides, you mean Cork, Kerry and Dublin? Who are the top sides they've beaten? Cork beat Kerry, fair enough, but who are the top sides Kerry and Dublin have beaten? Can't be Tyrone, because Donegal beat them. Who's the top side Dublin beat? Meath? Do you think think Meath are better than Donegal? Donegal are as good as anyone, and better than most.
All three of Cork, Kerry & Dublin have won the last three AI's therefore have proven they can beat top sides and have done so over the last number of years.
Donegal while looking impressive, have beaten no-one of consequence.
I will therefore hold off judgement until they do, and certainly wouldn't class a team with no AI's as 'good as anyone'.
By that logic, you didn't rate Cork in 2010 or Dublin in 2011. Your methodology doesn't allow for first-time winners, even though first-time winners have happened in the past two years, and could happen this year too. It's up to yourself, but it seems very limiting to me.
I think you're picking me up wrong.
It's not that I don't rate Donegal or didn't rate any first time winner, but until a team shows they can beat a top team then looking unbeatable beating cannon fodder is meaningless imo
Quote from: heffo on July 27, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 06:40:51 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 01:52:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2012, 01:16:58 AM
Donegal the most impressive team about. Very close to winning it last year imo. A bit of good fortune in the semi probably would have got them there. They have the best team and spread around the team enough of the best individuals as well. And they re more disciplined as well, compared to the other contenders - Dublin, Cork and Kerry. But also crucially they wont be bullied by those 3 either - like say Mayo was in league final - and that is going to be very important.
Donegal haven't beaten a top side in the championship yet though - the other three have.
Donegal look impressive enroute to beating a bunch of also-rans, lets see how they do against the top sides and then we'll judge them.
By top sides, you mean Cork, Kerry and Dublin? Who are the top sides they've beaten? Cork beat Kerry, fair enough, but who are the top sides Kerry and Dublin have beaten? Can't be Tyrone, because Donegal beat them. Who's the top side Dublin beat? Meath? Do you think think Meath are better than Donegal? Donegal are as good as anyone, and better than most.
All three of Cork, Kerry & Dublin have won the last three AI's therefore have proven they can beat top sides and have done so over the last number of years.
Donegal while looking impressive, have beaten no-one of consequence.
I will therefore hold off judgement until they do, and certainly wouldn't class a team with no AI's as 'good as anyone'.
By that logic, you didn't rate Cork in 2010 or Dublin in 2011. Your methodology doesn't allow for first-time winners, even though first-time winners have happened in the past two years, and could happen this year too. It's up to yourself, but it seems very limiting to me.
I think you're picking me up wrong.
It's not that I don't rate Donegal or didn't rate any first time winner, but until a team shows they can beat a top team then looking unbeatable beating cannon fodder is meaningless imo
the way i see it, dublin still are the team to beat. they're the team i think mcguinness aspires for us to be as good as. awesome tactices, pace and power all round the park, and no little skill either.
but, having said that, you beat us by two points last year, and i'd love for us to get another crack at you this year to see if there's still two points in it. lot of football to be played if that's to happen though.
Quote from: cadence on July 27, 2012, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: heffo on July 27, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 06:40:51 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 01:52:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2012, 01:16:58 AM
Donegal the most impressive team about. Very close to winning it last year imo. A bit of good fortune in the semi probably would have got them there. They have the best team and spread around the team enough of the best individuals as well. And they re more disciplined as well, compared to the other contenders - Dublin, Cork and Kerry. But also crucially they wont be bullied by those 3 either - like say Mayo was in league final - and that is going to be very important.
Donegal haven't beaten a top side in the championship yet though - the other three have.
Donegal look impressive enroute to beating a bunch of also-rans, lets see how they do against the top sides and then we'll judge them.
By top sides, you mean Cork, Kerry and Dublin? Who are the top sides they've beaten? Cork beat Kerry, fair enough, but who are the top sides Kerry and Dublin have beaten? Can't be Tyrone, because Donegal beat them. Who's the top side Dublin beat? Meath? Do you think think Meath are better than Donegal? Donegal are as good as anyone, and better than most.
All three of Cork, Kerry & Dublin have won the last three AI's therefore have proven they can beat top sides and have done so over the last number of years.
Donegal while looking impressive, have beaten no-one of consequence.
I will therefore hold off judgement until they do, and certainly wouldn't class a team with no AI's as 'good as anyone'.
By that logic, you didn't rate Cork in 2010 or Dublin in 2011. Your methodology doesn't allow for first-time winners, even though first-time winners have happened in the past two years, and could happen this year too. It's up to yourself, but it seems very limiting to me.
I think you're picking me up wrong.
It's not that I don't rate Donegal or didn't rate any first time winner, but until a team shows they can beat a top team then looking unbeatable beating cannon fodder is meaningless imo
the way i see it, dublin still are the team to beat. they're the team i think mcguinness aspires for us to be as good as. awesome tactices, pace and power all round the park, and no little skill either.
but, having said that, you beat us by two points last year, and i'd love for us to get another crack at you this year to see if there's still two points in it. lot of football to be played if that's to happen though.
Did you not get a crack at us there in April when we beat you by 9!??
Donegal look a serious team this year, have built on last years defensive foundations and will give any team a real test - whether they've kicked onto the next level will become clear over the next few weeks.
Quote from: heffo on July 27, 2012, 10:34:44 AM
Quote from: cadence on July 27, 2012, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: heffo on July 27, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 06:40:51 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 26, 2012, 01:52:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 26, 2012, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2012, 01:16:58 AM
Donegal the most impressive team about. Very close to winning it last year imo. A bit of good fortune in the semi probably would have got them there. They have the best team and spread around the team enough of the best individuals as well. And they re more disciplined as well, compared to the other contenders - Dublin, Cork and Kerry. But also crucially they wont be bullied by those 3 either - like say Mayo was in league final - and that is going to be very important.
Donegal haven't beaten a top side in the championship yet though - the other three have.
Donegal look impressive enroute to beating a bunch of also-rans, lets see how they do against the top sides and then we'll judge them.
By top sides, you mean Cork, Kerry and Dublin? Who are the top sides they've beaten? Cork beat Kerry, fair enough, but who are the top sides Kerry and Dublin have beaten? Can't be Tyrone, because Donegal beat them. Who's the top side Dublin beat? Meath? Do you think think Meath are better than Donegal? Donegal are as good as anyone, and better than most.
All three of Cork, Kerry & Dublin have won the last three AI's therefore have proven they can beat top sides and have done so over the last number of years.
Donegal while looking impressive, have beaten no-one of consequence.
I will therefore hold off judgement until they do, and certainly wouldn't class a team with no AI's as 'good as anyone'.
By that logic, you didn't rate Cork in 2010 or Dublin in 2011. Your methodology doesn't allow for first-time winners, even though first-time winners have happened in the past two years, and could happen this year too. It's up to yourself, but it seems very limiting to me.
I think you're picking me up wrong.
It's not that I don't rate Donegal or didn't rate any first time winner, but until a team shows they can beat a top team then looking unbeatable beating cannon fodder is meaningless imo
the way i see it, dublin still are the team to beat. they're the team i think mcguinness aspires for us to be as good as. awesome tactices, pace and power all round the park, and no little skill either.
but, having said that, you beat us by two points last year, and i'd love for us to get another crack at you this year to see if there's still two points in it. lot of football to be played if that's to happen though.
Did you not get a crack at us there in April when we beat you by 9!??
Donegal look a serious team this year, have built on last years defensive foundations and will give any team a real test - whether they've kicked onto the next level will become clear over the next few weeks.
:D i knew you'd say that!
we played a more open game that day. counter attacking, but left ourselves very open to dublin's breaks and were not as fluid and as good at breaking out and supporting as we are now i think. once murphy went off, it was game over. i wouldn't expect us to be like that again. how mcguinness lines us up is anybody's guess. will we revert back to being ultra defensive? maybe in the first half of games. who knows. that's a good thing though. we are much better at kicking it long now as well.
the question is, can our defence shut out the opposition more than their defence shuts out us? that's a really big question, donegal, dubs, kerry and cork, have all got tough defensives to break down. i think we have kicked onto the next level. we weren't doing what we are doing now last year. it's going to be interesting and a great summer of football... can't wait for the quarters draw.
Quote from: Mayo Mick on March 31, 2012, 11:07:00 PM
After tonight we have to be on the short list of genuine contenders. When the attitude is right there are few teams that will beat us.
Hope some of you took my advice!!!
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 28, 2012, 12:19:10 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 28, 2012, 12:08:27 PM
As generous as ever Dinny!!
;)
On a serious note I don't think the posters outside of Leinster are fully aware of the talent coming through the Dublin ranks and how Dublin will only get stronger. We might now be talking about a Big 3 but that Big 3 will soon be a Big 1, Dublin have the resources, the players and the structures to dominate the Gaelic Football landscape for a long time. A lot of hard work over the last decade is going to bear a lot of fruit.
I miss Don't Matter, can't say you all weren't warned. 6 years ago and long before any journalist took up the mantra of funding inequality and what its affects were really going to be.
100% Dinny.
If you moved Dublin into the Ulster Championship for the next 5 years, and the likes of Tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal etc. realised they were playing for 2nd place AT BEST every year, maybe they'd understand why Leinster is the way it is.
Mayo again if they get it together is the only team that could put it up to them; simply by matching their middle 8 in physical terms!