Antrim Football Thread

[imtommygunn]

16 points looks enough for portglenone. Unforunately I think Rasharkin will do down. St Johns should get the gort na mona points and rasharkin st galls doesn't help.

Milltown I'm not sure what you mean about the schools football? The myth that we need our schools in mcrory cup to be a better football county?? Do you mean the myth is that only "better" counties can have successful schools? Or do you mean that the myth is that we need schools in there to be successful county - that can hardly be changed in one year? Not having a go but just seemed a fairly ambiguous statement...

[Mhic Easmuint]

We should be safe enough.  Our score difference should be enough. 
Lamh Dearg could be dodgy.  If Rasharkin beat Gorts they would be on 14 points and if St John beat Gorts they are on 15.  so the St Johns Lamh Dearg game could be the cruncher.  If St Johns beat Lamh Dearg, Lamh Dearg could go down on Score Difference even if Rasharkin don't get any points from there games with Cargin and St Galls.

[ExiledGael]

Thats some going by St Marys good to see. so that dispells that myth. that we need our school teams in the McRory cup to be a better football county

Bit early to say that, don't think it's a myth at all. Give it a few years of schools success and you breed winners who have experience of facing and beating the top talent from other counties. Think Fermanagh owe an awful lot to the hard work done at St Michael's Enniskillen and some other secondary schools to a lesser extent for the past few years of relative success.

[bannside]

St Marys progress a bright light in what has been a horrendous year all round for Antrim Football.

[culchy1]

st johns v. gortnamona tonight casement 7.30pm throw-in.

cargin v. rasharkin tomorrow night in toome 8pm throw-in.

rasharkin v. gortnamona thursday night 7.30pm throw-in.

what would we do without lights!!!?/?

[billy the kid]

Does anyone know where you could see the McCrory Cup tables at?

[PlayWithTheWind]

St Mary's CBS Belfast -v- St Macartan's Monaghan Win for St Mary's, now leaving them with 6points out of 3 games.

One more victory will see St Mary's into the semi final of the McCormick Cup

Remaining fixtures:

Group B
St Mary's CBS Belfast   -v- St Mary's Magherafelt
St Patrick's Armagh  -v- Omagh CBS                                         
St Patrick's Cavan -v- St Macartan's Monaghan     

Group B
St Mary's CBS Belfast  -v- Omagh CBS                         
St Patrick's Armagh -v-  St Macartan's Monaghan   


Competition Format:

• The top team in Group A & B will play off for the McCormick Cup on Saturday 29th November 2008. (N.B. Extra time if necessary).

• The first 3 teams in each group will progress to the knock-out stages

• The play-offs (N.B: extra time if necessary in all cases) for the remaining 2 quarter-final places will take place as follows:  A4 –v– B5 and A5 –v– B4 on Saturday 29th November.

• The procedure for ranking teams which are tied on points in either group will be as follows:

• Where 2 teams are tied on points, the rank order will be determined by the result of the game between the 2 tied teams; if that particular game had ended in a draw, then their ‘score difference’ over the 5 group games will determine the placings.

• Where more than 2 teams finish level on points, the rank order will be determined by the ‘score difference’ in the matches involving the tied teams; where necessary, ‘scores for’ in the relevant matches will be the next criterion to be used, followed by ‘scores against’.

• No team may be eliminated from any competition on score difference alone, so there will be an additional play-off if there are teams level on points in 5th / 6th place in either group.

[milltown row]

Thats some going by St Marys good to see. so that dispells that myth. that we need our school teams in the McRory cup to be a better football county

What i was trying to say was this. experts here and from other counties have used the fact that because we didnt't have a school competing in the McRory cup was having an effect on our poor return in senior county football. i personally thought that was rubbish as St Mary's and St Malachys (for a time) had McRory Cup teams for years and we were still crap at football.

the myth being, good McRory cup team = good county team

Gorts may beat the Johnnies, they were rubbish against us. they huffed and they puffed but "whack for the diddle" was never heard

[ONeill]

Thats some going by St Marys good to see. so that dispells that myth. that we need our school teams in the McRory cup to be a better football county

What i was trying to say was this. experts here and from other counties have used the fact that because we didnt't have a school competing in the McRory cup was having an effect on our poor return in senior county football. i personally thought that was rubbish as St Mary's and St Malachys (for a time) had McRory Cup teams for years and we were still crap at football.

the myth being, good McRory cup team = good county team

Gorts may beat the Johnnies, they were rubbish against us. they huffed and they puffed but "whack for the diddle" was never heard

It definitely helps, Milltown. Most of the great players in every county played MacRory football...it'll do Antrim the world of good to be competing, and competing well, with the cream of underage football. 

[saffron sam2]

Thats some going by St Marys good to see. so that dispells that myth. that we need our school teams in the McRory cup to be a better football county

What i was trying to say was this. experts here and from other counties have used the fact that because we didnt't have a school competing in the McRory cup was having an effect on our poor return in senior county football. i personally thought that was rubbish as St Mary's and St Malachys (for a time) had McRory Cup teams for years and we were still crap at football.

the myth being, good McRory cup team = good county team

Gorts may beat the Johnnies, they were rubbish against us. they huffed and they puffed but "whack for the diddle" was never heard

It definitely helps, Milltown. Most of the great players in every county played MacRory football...it'll do Antrim the world of good to be competing, and competing well, with the cream of underage football. 

Bollix. Who did Peter Canavan play for? Or Brian Dooher? Or Kieran McGeeney? Or Kieran McKeever? Or Tony Scullion? Or Kevin McGourty? Or Johnny McBride? Or the entire free state?

There is no direct correlation between MacRory and senior inter-county football. In fact, the demands placed on MacRory players is more likely to put them off or out of football for good. In the past I have highlighted three Hogan Cup winning teams (mid - late 90s) from three different northern colleges (Maghera, Dungannon and St. Colman's). From those three teams, really only two players had / are having worthwhile senior inter-county careers. I have highlighted in the past the rivalry between Maghera and St. Mary's. They met in two finals and one semi-final in the mid 80s; Maghera winning twice. Of those who played 12 Maghera man have senior All-Ireland medals, only one St. Mary's man had a decent career with Antrim. In fact, more Maghera men played senior championship football for Antrim than St. Mary's. Why do think that is?

In my opinion third level football is a better examination of players' abilities at senior inter-county level and Antrim have had a decent representation in Sigerson / Ryan Cup football over the year.

A very lazy contribution there Shane.

[ExiledGael]

Thats some going by St Marys good to see. so that dispells that myth. that we need our school teams in the McRory cup to be a better football county

What i was trying to say was this. experts here and from other counties have used the fact that because we didnt't have a school competing in the McRory cup was having an effect on our poor return in senior county football. i personally thought that was rubbish as St Mary's and St Malachys (for a time) had McRory Cup teams for years and we were still crap at football.

the myth being, good McRory cup team = good county team

Gorts may beat the Johnnies, they were rubbish against us. they huffed and they puffed but "whack for the diddle" was never heard

It definitely helps, Milltown. Most of the great players in every county played MacRory football...it'll do Antrim the world of good to be competing, and competing well, with the cream of underage football. 

Bollix. Who did Peter Canavan play for? Or Brian Dooher? Or Kieran McGeeney? Or Kieran McKeever? Or Tony Scullion? Or Kevin McGourty? Or Johnny McBride? Or the entire free state?

There is no direct correlation between MacRory and senior inter-county football. In fact, the demands placed on MacRory players is more likely to put them off or out of football for good. In the past I have highlighted three Hogan Cup winning teams (mid - late 90s) from three different northern colleges (Maghera, Dungannon and St. Colman's). From those three teams, really only two players had / are having worthwhile senior inter-county careers. I have highlighted in the past the rivalry between Maghera and St. Mary's. They met in two finals and one semi-final in the mid 80s; Maghera winning twice. Of those who played 12 Maghera man have senior All-Ireland medals, only one St. Mary's man had a decent career with Antrim. In fact, more Maghera men played senior championship football for Antrim than St. Mary's. Why do think that is?

In my opinion third level football is a better examination of players' abilities at senior inter-county level and Antrim have had a decent representation in Sigerson / Ryan Cup football over the year.

A very lazy contribution there Shane.

Very easy also to list players who didn't play MacRory football, you could provide just as long a list of people like Ronan Clarke, Sean Cavanagh and Barry Owens who have done so, and what the hell is McGourty doing on that list of players?
That statistic from the St Mary's Maghera rivalry says more about the problems in Antrim at the school leaving age group than it does about anything else. You can't argue that playing and succeeding at MacRory level is a real advantage for county teams down the line if they can keep the players away from the distractions of life.

[ONeill]

Brian McGuigan
Sean Cavanagh
Ciaran Gourley
Cormac McAnallan
Pascal McConnell
Stephen O'Neill
Joe McMahon
Justin McMahon
Philip Jordan
Ronan Clarke
Oisin McConville
etc
etc

The list of current inter-county footballers who have played MacRory is endless. Add to the the great players of the 90s - Blaney, Tohill, McCartan bla bla bla...those sides were littered with MacRory players .

The mistake you're making is counting only MacRory Cup winning sides. The likes of McConville wouldn't show up on your radar, even as an All-star.

Anyone who thinks that playing MacRory Cup football will not help bring players on either

a) needs their head examined
b) Is under stress
c) wasn't picked

[imtommygunn]

It is only of late that Antrim have had greater representation at third level and that undoubtedly helps.

Unfortunately a lot of those guys were schooled in Derry. Yes - the Belfast players weren't but Kevin Brady, Kevin Madden, Mick McCann, Tomas McCann, Justin Crozier and guys like that went to McRory schools. Were st marys not in mcrory when Kevin McGourty was there too? Quite a number of successful Belfast players would have played in successful McLarnon schools too.

Third level football, after not having played McRory, is some shock to the system. McRory is that bit harder and faster and it takes a lot of adapting. Yes it can be done but it puts you one step below the other boys you're playing against,

[ONeill]

A two-time winning MacRory Cup and one Hogan Cup winning manager who has also won county titles as manager at minor and U21 level told me in the late 90s that MacRory Cup was the fastest, fittest football there is out there.

[saffron sam2]

Another poor contribution from Mr ONeill.

Brian McGuigan
Sean Cavanagh
Ciaran Gourley
Cormac McAnallan
Pascal McConnell
Stephen O'Neill
Joe McMahon
Justin McMahon
Philip Jordan
Ronan Clarke
Oisin McConville
etc
etc

Of that list, I reckon McGuigan would have been every bit as good a footballer without the MacRory, you can't coach his talent. Likewise Stephen O'Neill was a very good footballer before he ever played MacRory - other posters might be able to shed more light on his second level education. With one exception, your list contains guys who played University football, which I contend is more important. You haven't disproved that theory.

The list of current inter-county footballers who have played MacRory is endless. Add to the the great players of the 90s - Blaney, Tohill, McCartan bla bla bla...those sides were littered with MacRory players .

Of course it isn't endless. There is a finite list of current inter-county players and from that list a subset has played MacRory. Your reference to the players of the 90s is also a red herring. Preparation was different then, teams relying more on natural ability - there was no such thing as professional coaches. McGuckin took Maghera's preparation to another level, other teams have followed to the extent that MacRory preparation is akin to a professional sport and as such more likely to discourage than encourage. Blaney and McCartan would have been greats regardless of whether or not they ever played MacRory  and I would suggest that Tohill's time in Australia was much more important in his development than the MacRory.

Anyone who thinks that playing MacRory Cup football will not help bring players on either

a) needs their head examined
b) Is under stress
c) wasn't picked

MacRory football is not about bringing players on. it is in the main about schools and their principals making a name for themselves and the coaches making a living outside school for themselves.

I will admit to a) and c) above though.