Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023

[Wildweasel74]

I played a couple of times in Junior Ulster Championship,then, the way the Derry league was set,we were the 33rd team league wise, teams we played against were Intermediate.How that work playing against a team rated maybe 13th Team in a county,it be like playing Ballinascreen/Lavey (13/14 in the Derry league) in the Junior Championship, I doubt the Cavan champs would beat them to be honest.

[Westside]

Championship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club

But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.

Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?

They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?

All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.

Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.

Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?

I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.

So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league.  Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship

Precisely. I think Tyrone amended their leagues as a one-off during Covid and for whatever reason Stewartstown ended up being relegated to Junior. Hence why they were talked up so much as being contenders for an AI club junior. Not for one second do I think Stewartstown were a junior club last year.

So dropping to junior in a county where league and championship are linked isn't enough to make you a proper junior team and dropping to junior in a county where league and championship aren't linked isn't enough to make you a property junior team... How do we assess who to allow into the Ulster Junior Championship?

[Wildweasel74]

Simply put,a Team has to be in the Junior league, if a Intermediate league team win the Junior championship they can't go forward, Glen 3rds couldnt go forward one year, as they had a senior team, same in Armagh this year also, just need bring in a rule about a team playing in higher leagues not been eligible to play Ulster Junior Championship.

[Westside]

Simply put,a Team has to be in the Junior league, if a Intermediate league team win the Junior championship they can't go forward, Glen 3rds couldnt go forward one year, as they had a senior team, same in Armagh this year also, just need bring in a rule about a team playing in higher leagues not been eligible to play Junior Championship.

So if you're a junior team for 10 years, you get up to Div 2 win no games and get relegated in the league and then win the junior championship - you are excluded from the Ulster Junior Championship because you played Division 2 that year?

[Wildweasel74]

Yip,the year in question your still a Intermediate team, and in the Junior League the following year.

[marty34]

Championship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club

But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.

Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?

They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?

All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.

Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.

Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?

I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.

So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league.  Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship

Precisely. I think Tyrone amended their leagues as a one-off during Covid and for whatever reason Stewartstown ended up being relegated to Junior. Hence why they were talked up so much as being contenders for an AI club junior. Not for one second do I think Stewartstown were a junior club last year.

So dropping to junior in a county where league and championship are linked isn't enough to make you a proper junior team and dropping to junior in a county where league and championship aren't linked isn't enough to make you a property junior team... How do we assess who to allow into the Ulster Junior Championship?

Start by not letting a Division 1 team play in the Junior Championship.

It should be in the WTF thread.

A joke.

Image Burren, Cavan Gaels or Gaoth Dobhair saying they want to play in their Junior Club Championship.

[SaffronSports]

You would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.

[Armagh18]

Simply put,a Team has to be in the Junior league, if a Intermediate league team win the Junior championship they can't go forward, Glen 3rds couldnt go forward one year, as they had a senior team, same in Armagh this year also, just need bring in a rule about a team playing in higher leagues not been eligible to play Junior Championship.

So if you're a junior team for 10 years, you get up to Div 2 win no games and get relegated in the league and then win the junior championship - you are excluded from the Ulster Junior Championship because you played Division 2 that year?

If you're playing D2 league you should be playing intermediate championship thst year. Problem solved. If it turns out you weren't good enough then you'll be back to junior the following year

[Armagh18]

You would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.

I think in Camogie the club winners play at whatever level the county team does. I know the Armagh senior hurling winners go to Ulster Intermediate.

[marty34]

You would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.

Fair point SaffronSports.

[general_lee]

Championship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club

But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.

Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?

They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?

All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.

Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.

Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?

I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.

So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league.  Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship

Precisely. I think Tyrone amended their leagues as a one-off during Covid and for whatever reason Stewartstown ended up being relegated to Junior. Hence why they were talked up so much as being contenders for an AI club junior. Not for one second do I think Stewartstown were a junior club last year.

So dropping to junior in a county where league and championship are linked isn't enough to make you a proper junior team and dropping to junior in a county where league and championship aren't linked isn't enough to make you a property junior team... How do we assess who to allow into the Ulster Junior Championship?

Stewartstown dropping to junior was an anomaly, as was clearly explained.

[general_lee]

You would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.

I have already pointed out that the likes of Swatragh playing Junior hurling is a joke. If they were in Armagh they'd be challenging Keady & Middletown.

[Armagh18]

You would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.

I have already pointed out that the likes of Swatragh playing Junior hurling is a joke. If they were in Armagh they'd be challenging Keady & Middletown.

Do they win Ulster Juniors regularly? Were they in it the year Craobh Rua from Armagh won it? Craobh Rua went up to senior and were well off the 2 big clubs.

[imtommygunn]

They don't play in it regularly. Every derry team starts in senior and it depends where you get in it whether you go into junior or not. They have been in senior finals in the not that distant past.

wiki link

Banagher were in intermediate the other year nearly getting to the AI final and got beat in the junior final this year.

[InnocentByStander]

You would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.

I have already pointed out that the likes of Swatragh playing Junior hurling is a joke. If they were in Armagh they'd be challenging Keady & Middletown.

Do they win Ulster Juniors regularly? Were they in it the year Craobh Rua from Armagh won it? Craobh Rua went up to senior and were well off the 2 big clubs.

No Team can win Ulster IHC or JHC "Regularly" as once you win the competition you have a ban on entering the competition for a certain number of years.

Derry Hurling is a strange run competition starting off with group games and where you finish determines what grade your in.