Search for New Mayo Manager

[Il Bomber Destro]

Ciaran Murphy ,Second Captains , Irish Times

If you're buying just one sports book for yourself or your loved ones this Christmas, it will probably be Paul O'Connell's autobiography The Battle, with Alan English. In it he describes what it's like to be a part of Ireland's first truly successful indigenous professional sports club – the Munster rugby team.
Vast swathes of the book are dedicated to how he reckoned the major strength in Munster throughout the early part of his career was down to the manner in which the players dictated the atmosphere in the group. Declan Kidney's success as head coach had as much to do with him having the wherewithal to get out of the way and let the players set the tone as it had to do with any tactical nous he may have had.
In the book, O'Connell says he met former Munster head coach Rob Penneybefore he was offered the job – "I think Garret Fitzgerald wanted to make sure a few of the senior players were comfortable with whoever was chosen". And the book describes in detail the sort of character required to drive Munster's standards – dogged, contrary, cranky, mouthy. Rugby players are used to consultation, they're used to empowerment, and they're used to the pressure that puts on them.
Which brings us to Mayo. The interview given by Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes to the Irish Independent over the weekend has gotten plenty of coverage since, and while they may have believed that telling their side of the story would turn the tide of public opinion in their favour, the majority of the reaction to it appears to spare the pair little. Their insistence that they were doing this for the good of Mayo football did not survive long under many people's microscope.
If you're buying just one sports book for yourself or your loved ones this Christmas, it will probably be Paul O'Connell's autobiography The Battle, with Alan English. In it he describes what it's like to be a part of Ireland's first truly successful indigenous professional sports club – the Munster rugby team.
Vast swathes of the book are dedicated to how he reckoned the major strength in Munster throughout the early part of his career was down to the manner in which the players dictated the atmosphere in the group. Declan Kidney's success as head coach had as much to do with him having the wherewithal to get out of the way and let the players set the tone as it had to do with any tactical nous he may have had.
In the book, O'Connell says he met former Munster head coach Rob Penneybefore he was offered the job – "I think Garret Fitzgerald wanted to make sure a few of the senior players were comfortable with whoever was chosen". And the book describes in detail the sort of character required to drive Munster's standards – dogged, contrary, cranky, mouthy. Rugby players are used to consultation, they're used to empowerment, and they're used to the pressure that puts on them.
Which brings us to Mayo. The interview given by Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes to the Irish Independent over the weekend has gotten plenty of coverage since, and while they may have believed that telling their side of the story would turn the tide of public opinion in their favour, the majority of the reaction to it appears to spare the pair little. Their insistence that they were doing this for the good of Mayo football did not survive long under many people's microscope. 
SilenceIf they had wanted to help Mayo, they would never have done this interview. As they look on from the outside, their silence is the only way they can help. The only people that could possibly have been served by this interview were themselves . . . and yet they accuse players of being selfish, and being consumed by ego. Of course, they have a right to say whatever they like about their time in charge, but it doesn't make it the correct thing to do.



As you read on, and you hear about Aidan O'Shea being denied the chance to take part in an AIB-funded TV show called The Toughest Trade (he eventually took part in the show in 2016), and older men spit out the words "Twitter followers" like it's shorthand for taking up a cabaret residency in Vegas, you can't help but think again that winning an All-Ireland solves all this nonsense at a stroke.
Everything an All-Ireland winner does is right, and everything a loser does is wrong. And that's it. By that way of thinking, Brendan Maher's two weeks' playing cricket in Australia filming The Toughest Trade this year was a vital component in preparing him for a year in which he captained Tipperary to the All-Ireland. It no doubt opened his eyes to a new sporting culture, aided his hand-eye co-ordination, topped up his tan, improved his diction, and helped him find God.
Or maybe it was just a cool thing to try for a couple of weeks. We may never know.
It didn't seem to bother Jackie Tyrrell the year before either. If I was Derek McGrath or Micheál Donoghue, I'd be bending over backwards to convince the producers to hire a Waterford or Galway hurler for the 2017 edition, because this show has a 100 per cent All-Ireland success prediction rate so far.
The Mayo players don't emerge from this unscathed, but it hardly comes as a surprise that a high-level sports team has in its midst characters that are almost nasty in their willingness to win. Their willingness to be unpopular, to say the unpopular thing, is part of the reason why we follow them. It's why men like Paul O'Connell and the Munster legacy he fought his entire career to protect and enhance are so interesting to us.

I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?

They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.

Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.

Precisely.

Certain people seem outraged at lads who were undermined and ousted of their jobs as Mayo managers giving their side of the story.

Bizarre.

[muppet]

I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?

They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.

Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.

We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.

I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........

[Syferus]

I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?

They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.

Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.

We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.

I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........

It's your stance and people like you that are fuelling the flames. If there was some contrition or at least acceptance that panel members over-stepped their bounds in how they behaved under H&C and in how they ousted them this thread would have been over in one or two pages, for example.

It's the ridiculous shielding of players from all blame that is fueling this.

[REDCOL]

Its quite obvious at this stage that journalists/bloggers are taking the players side. H&C are no use to them any more but they need players interviews in 2017.

The columnists who dont need interviews are backing H&C. Bernard Flynn, Colm O Rourke, Pat Spillane have no need for player interviews and therefore go to town on the players.

[J70]

I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?

They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.

Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.

We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.

I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........

We've had so much shite over the years in Donegal, I do sympathize (the snubbing of McHugh in the 90s; the snubbing of McGuinness and the interview panel laughing at him for expecting a projector for his powerpoint; Brian McIvor, a decent man from outside, being forced to reapply for his position in 2007, despite not having finished his tenure; the debacle of Declan Bonner and Charlie Mulgrew being offered the job at the same time as John Joe Doherty in 2008).

(You'll note I haven't even touched on the allegations regarding the Donegal players. There's so much stuff in the national consciousness from back then, yet there's even more ridiculous shenanigans you'd hear about locally that would put that stuff to shame)

[ck]

To those who think the players should have put the heads down and ignored the fact that these managers were never accepted or deemed good enough by the players, why would they do that as they clearly didnt see them delivering an All Ireland. Clearly they werent a patch on Horans set up so they got them out. I felt sorry for them at the time but by god they have fairly stuck the knife into the players since. For 2 men who claim to have their counties best interest at heart they have done some serious damage.

[muppet]

I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?

They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.

Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.

We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.

I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........

We've had so much shite over the years in Donegal, I do sympathize (the snubbing of McHugh in the 90s; the snubbing of McGuinness and the interview panel laughing at him for expecting a projector for his powerpoint; Brian McIvor, a decent man from outside, being forced to reapply for his position in 2007, despite not having finished his tenure; the debacle of Declan Bonner and Charlie Mulgrew being offered the job at the same time as John Joe Doherty in 2008).

(You'll note I haven't even touched on the allegations regarding the Donegal players. There's so much stuff in the national consciousness from back then, yet there's even more ridiculous shenanigans you'd hear about locally that would put that stuff to shame)

What?

You mean, Donegal supporters might know stuff that Indiana, Syferus, Matin Breheny and others not from Donegal don't know?

Surely you jest!

[Il Bomber Destro]

To those who think the players should have put the heads down and ignored the fact that these managers were never accepted or deemed good enough by the players, why would they do that as they clearly didnt see them delivering an All Ireland. Clearly they werent a patch on Horans set up so they got them out. I felt sorry for them at the time but by god they have fairly stuck the knife into the players since. For 2 men who claim to have their counties best interest at heart they have done some serious damage.

So because players have a predetermined outlook on management, it absolves them from acting like they did and actively seeking to undermine the management team.

Mayo showed no drop in performance levels in 2015 from the 2011-2014 period and no upturn in performances in 2016. That is the crux of the matter and that is how the management team should be judged.

The obvious reasons behind the heave were not footballing issues, they were personal ones and it was to do with a certain group of players acting outside their remit. A group of players should have no input in who their manager is meant and to be and this was a request from the players behind the heave.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?

They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.

Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.

We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.

I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........

We've had so much shite over the years in Donegal, I do sympathize (the snubbing of McHugh in the 90s; the snubbing of McGuinness and the interview panel laughing at him for expecting a projector for his powerpoint; Brian McIvor, a decent man from outside, being forced to reapply for his position in 2007, despite not having finished his tenure; the debacle of Declan Bonner and Charlie Mulgrew being offered the job at the same time as John Joe Doherty in 2008).

(You'll note I haven't even touched on the allegations regarding the Donegal players. There's so much stuff in the national consciousness from back then, yet there's even more ridiculous shenanigans you'd hear about locally that would put that stuff to shame)

What?

You mean, Donegal supporters might know stuff that Indiana, Syferus, Matin Breheny and others not from Donegal don't know?

Surely you jest!

Know what?

Were you part of the backroom team and saw these things happen or do you just put a blind faith in the murmurs around the county that fit the side of the story you'd like to believe?

[moysider]

"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''

Tomás O Sé  on Homellygate.

Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.

[Il Bomber Destro]

"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''

Tomás O Sé  on Homellygate.

Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.

Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.

[Mayo Border]

Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever. County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014

[moysider]

"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''

Tomás O Sé  on Homellygate.

Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.

Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.

Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.

Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00
 
Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.

After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.

[moysider]

Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever. County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014

Moran and Morrison was one of a few cases where right people were brought in. Forget H&C, if ever Mickey Moran breaks his silence about the way he was forced to walk the plank - by the board, not the players - then that would be some scoop. Maybe not, nobody interested in shadowy blazers. Likes of Brehony, who has a natural antipathy towards Mayo would prefer to get his teeth into players.

Apart from M&M, we,ve only got it right a couple of times besides. Liam O Neill in the early 80's. Maughan in mid 90s was the right man at the right time. Then there was Horan. Rochford as well I expect.

[macdanger2]

Moran & Morrison were treated extremely badly