Talking sense - Ex President calls it like it is

[paddypastit]

I'm no fan of the conceited Brehony and I've never found it easy to like Peter Quinn but by god is he mostly talking sense in his article in this morning's Irish Independent (copied in below).

The only point on which I think he, as many others do also, is misreading it is this fallacy that "Many people would quit the GAA if it went professional." While I think the 'pay to play' scenario has many dangers for the future of the GAA - which are well and concisely presented by Lone Shark in the 'GAA ALL Ireland vs. GPA All Ireland ' thread http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=2373.0, it will not be because people will suddely refuse to be involved because somebody else is getting paid. Wake up and look around. There are two semiprofessional soccer leagues operating on this island (their viability or attractiveness is irrelavant in the context of this point) and there are junior soccer players and managers being paid all over the country yet there are still thousands of people happily involved in lower grade junior and underage soccer on a volunteer basis. No the dangers from 'Pay for play' are more what has happened in rugby where all of the payments get channelled towards an increasingly discrete group and the rest of the structures get neglected.

His point about Croke Park is well made.  It struck me that half the blow about not opening Croke Park was that the 'mystique' that has been created about this fabulous stadium built by an organisation where none of the real talent gets paid would be blown open.  It's just a sports ground, and already as Quinn points out, looking aged in parts. Those that played there in recent weeks have probably played in half a dozen similar or better equipped (albeit smaller) stadia  in the course of their week to week working lives over the past six months. Indeed I'm sure many of them looked at Croke Park and thought "nice place, pity they didn't finish it"  It's time we got over ourselves. 

Big marker here for the new Director General of the GAA - presume that is being teed up for Duffy?

With the Association still on a lap of honour for Croke Park, Martin Breheny talks to distinguished former president Peter Quinn, who fears there is a lack of vision for the future

THE GAA has become dangerously complacent, is over-staffed, is failing to plan properly for the many challenges it faces and is under serious risk over the next 20 years unless there's a radical change of attitude at all levels.

Furthermore, the organisation is expending too much energy congratulating itself on the redevelopment of Croke Park while not facing up to the massive problem within miles of the stadium, where the GAA has a penetration level of less than three per cent in some large, sprawling Dublin housing estates. That such a withering assessment has come, not from an enemy of the Association, but from Peter Quinn, one of its most distinguished former presidents, will stun the GAA community and, in particular, the policy-makers who have gathered in Kilkenny for this weekend's annual Congress. He will not be attending Congress, which he describes as a "decision-making body for matters that should be dealt with at lower level", but his comments are certain to resonate around Hotel Kilkenny today.

Quinn, who was GAA president from 1991 to 1994 and who played a major role in the planning and supervision of the Croke Park redevelopment, is a highly successful businessman who currently sits on the board of 12 companies, including the massive Quinn Group, owned by his brother Sean. Peter was recently appointed chairman of TG4.

His business acumen makes his comments on what he perceives as the GAA's lack of vision very interesting, especially as he chaired the Strategic Review Committee (SRC) which reported in early 2002.

"That's over five years ago. We should have a new strategy for the next five years by now but where is it? We're sitting looking and admiring what we did in Croke Park, instead of moving onto the next challenges. There are plenty of them too, mainly in the area of competition, but we're not addressing them. If you're in business and you don't address the challenge of your competitors, you don't survive and it will be the same in sport into the future," he contends.

"Nobody believes the GAA won't survive, but I'd never rule it out as a possibility in any organisation. Get it wrong long enough and you're in serious trouble. If we started to get it wrong now, we would be in serious trouble in 20 years. We could have become a miniscule organisation, incapable of making the impact on Irish society we currently do.

"The Roman Empire ruled the developed world for nearly a century and disappeared in about 20 years."

Quinn's warnings will come as a surprise to the Irish sporting landscape as, outwardly at least, the GAA has never looked healthier as it basks in the glory of its headquarters while huge crowds continue to flock to its games.

"I spent a number of years in the late 1970s working with businesses that got into difficulties. In all cases, the problem started when things were going well and success was mismanaged.

"Every organisation is at its most vulnerable when most successful. And history shows that the management that causes the problem is never good enough to get out of it."

He is extremely concerned by what he regards as a civil service mentality within the GAA and claims that while many administrators are doing a good job they are not necessarily doing the right job.

"There's a civil service attitude in Dublin generally which is in common with most capital cities. When that type of ethos seeps into an organisation like the GAA, you get an administrative structure that's not as effective as it should be. Everybody in Croke Park is working hard, but in terms of effectiveness it should be more streamlined. Strategy is more important than day-to-day administration. We have become an administrative rather than a strategic organisation," he remarks.

He is surprised by the increase in the number of staff in Croke Park, pointing out that it was reduced to under 20 in the late 1980s, but has since increased dramatically.

"When we cut it before, things rolled along fine. Nobody died as a result and the Association kept running. We have a hell of a multiple of 20 there now and that worries me. You can run an organisation on a tight administrative structure but ours is not tight," he says.

So who controls staff numbers? "I don't know. I'm not sure I ever knew, but I certainly don't know who controls it now," he states.

Glass ceiling

He is also concerned that there's a glass ceiling effect within the GAA's ranks and believes that all top posts should be on a seven-year contract basis with nobody serving more than two terms.

"Even then, there should be a major review after the first term. Until we get fixed-term contracts for our senior staff, we're not going to deliver the change and innovation needed. I want people to be always challenging those about them. Smash the glass ceiling because it impedes initiative - anything less is not tolerated in business any more.

"The Quinn Group had one chief executive managing two companies in two different sectors which were big enough to be publicly-quoted PLCs. It was a demanding role, but we appointed him because we knew he could do the job. Under the GAA system, a man of that ability would probably end up as assistant ticketing manager."

Quinn believes that competition from all other sports will present a massive threat to the GAA over the next 20 years, so it's vital for the organisation to be ready to take on the challenge which, he suspects, is not the case at present.

"At one level we're better off than we were 20 years ago but at another I don't believe we're as fighting fit. We would come under pressure more easily now," he reflects.

Like the rest of the GAA community, he felt proud when Croke Park opened its doors to rugby and soccer this spring - a decision he felt was inevitable as it would have been a sporting calamity if 'home' fixtures had to be moved to Britain.

"It would be a disaster for the GAA too because we would get all the blame. Opening Croke Park was the right thing to do, but I don't believe we should waste our energy now on taking pride in our achievements.

"We're still on a lap of honour for Croke Park when we should be working on making the future better," he warns.

He is adamant that the monies generated from renting Croke Park should be kept well clear of administrative matters and instead channelled into vital projects such as expanding the GAA's base in Dublin, where in some areas the penetration level is less than three per cent.

"That's a serious indictment of everybody from the clubs, to the Dublin County Board to Leinster Council to Central Council, but it's not too late to address it. Take some of the millions generated by Croke Park, select neglected areas in Dublin and plough resources - well controlled of course - into starting new clubs.

"Stay with them for as long as it takes to get them up and running and then move on to other areas. That's an effective way to spend money."

Quinn believes that it's vital for the GAA that Dublin win an All-Ireland senior football title every five years at least and says the best possible bonus for hurling would be if Dublin landed the Liam McCarthy Cup.

Dublin area

"There's a population of over 1.3 million in the Dublin area. That's a critical mass where it's vital to make an impact. Dublin are doing wonders for the GAA's finances thanks to the crowds they attract, but are doing nothing by comparison in terms of attracting and enthusing playing members in many areas, due largely to the lack of success at senior level," he reasons.

"Look at the impact Ireland's one win and a draw had on cricket. Now compare that with the effect an All-Ireland football title win by Dublin would have on the vast population in the city and county.

"It's crucial that Dublin start winning titles. You would expect that their strike rate would be better but then when you look at the number of country players on senior Dublin club teams, you wonder what it's all about."

Quinn's concern over the state of play in Dublin and his fears that a lack of planning for the future development of the GAA countrywide provides food for thought at a time when many believe the Association is on a record high. He believes that the SRC report of 2002 charted a vision that provoked a defensive reaction from which the GAA has yet to emerge.

"That's dangerous. Our greatest strength is the weakness of our competitors in real terms. But will it always remain so? I believed prior to 2002 that we had spent the previous 10 years building up a huge level of confidence in the GAA through the redevelopment of Croke Park, but when we suggested some changes, we got defensiveness.

"That's not the hallmark of a progressive organisation or one that's full of confidence and that worries me as we look towards the next 20 years in a rapidly changing world, both locally and globally," he concludes.

1 Pay-for-play

"We could never afford a professional game. If there's a war over it, the GAA has no choice but to fight because to accept it would be to end the Association as we know it. It would become a Kerry Packer (cricket) like operation where you had a small number of teams involved.

"Using the current structures, the only counties that in my view could afford a semi-professional games are Tyrone, Armagh, Cavan, Mayo, Cork, Kerry, Tipperary, Meath and Kildare. Many people would quit the GAA if it went professional. I helped raise around £100,000 for Fermanagh last year but if players were paid, I'd walk away. I'm sure lots of people around the country feel the same."

2 Player welfare
"Opposing pay-for-play shouldn't be mistaken an as anti-player approach. Without the players we have nothing so they should be well looked after at all times. I'd have some concerns about the manner in which players who are out of work through injury are treated. In some cases, at least, they have to wait an awful long time to receive any money."

3 Two Dublin football teams
"This was a one paragraph proposal in the SRC report but it took over the whole agenda. Dublin played it badly. There was never any question of forcing them to have two teams but a few individuals decided to use it for their own advantage.

"It was merely an idea thrown out to gauge reaction. I would not favour two Dublin teams in the senior championship but think it would be a good idea at minor and U21 level. I would also favour two administrative structures for Dublin - the competition would be good for both of them."

4 Croke Park
"It's a cash generator in the short term but there will come a time when we have to start putting money aside to re-build it. A stadium like that takes a hell of a pounding. It's necessary to keep working on it all the time.

"I couldn't believe when we opened the Hogan Stand how old the Cusack Stand looked. We probably skimped on the Cusack side because we thought we were short of money but actually we weren't. We never expected Croke Park to repay the loan to Central Council but it's doing that already."

5 What if Croke Park had not been redeveloped?
"We'd be down to a capacity of around 48,000 now. We went ahead out of frustration when it became clear there wasn't going to be a National Stadium, certainly not in the short term because the other sports weren't prepared to make the same financial commitment as the GAA. Just as well we did because if we waited another five years, we couldn't possibly have afforded the redevelopment."

6 Other GAA ground developments
"We should have one big, well-developed stadium per province. It makes no sense for every county to redevelop stadiums with a capacity that's only required every few years, if at all."

7 The Tallaght Stadium controversy
"I would have thought that in the circumstances where the GAA has made Croke Park available to soccer and rugby that a publicly-funded major development in any area would make provision for Gaelic Games."

8 International Rules
"I don't think it has any future because the ethics of the two organisations are very different. Anyway, now that the Aussies have copied the way we used to play the game, I don't think Ireland would ever win a series again. It has no strategic role to play in the development of the GAA - therefore I don't think we should waste any resources on it."

9 TV coverage
"I don't think pay-per-view is a good idea. Many people don't have Setanta so the exposure for Saturday night League games has been relatively small. Obviously I have a bias now towards TG4 (he's the new chairman) but I think they have done a great job and they will get better if they get the chance.

"I think we negotiated some bad contracts with RTÉ - and I blame myself for doing it too during my term as President - because we went more for money than quality and quantity of coverage. Of course, we shouldn't give it away for nothing but we don't need the money as much now so I'd be pushing RTÉ to provide more GAA coverage in return for a smaller rights free.

"It would have to be of the highest quality, mind you. In general, RTÉ haven't done a bad job but we need them to provide more coverage to counteract the amount of other sports shown on all channels. We could insist on that in return for a lower fee."

10 The Games
"We have one great game and one good game. I never played hurling but nothing can compare with it. Sadly, it's confined to a few counties and there are concerns that it won't change. Still, it remains the jewel in our crown.

"Football is more evenly balanced and but what we need now if for another county to come along, like Armagh and Tyrone did, and win the All-Ireland for the first time. Either that or some county, maybe like Mayo, who haven't won it for a long time."

[ildanach]

He has hit the nail on the head there with alot of his thoughts

[Hardy]

It's amazing how much of that I agree with and how much reflects things I've been quietly concerned about. About the only bit I can't swallow, as a Meathman, is the preposterous idea that Dublin should win an All-Ireland every five years! As far as I'm concerned, once every 500 years is too often.

But his points about our overdoing the self congratulation about the complacency and about the vulnerability brought by success are spot on.

Coincidentally, I'd just finished reading the Nicky Brennan profile/interview in this morning's Irish Times. Reading that, I was struck by how Brennan comes across as an administrator rather than a strategist. To have that impression reinforced by Quinn's forthright points was striking. The contrast between the entrepreneur and Co-Op manager is very telling, particularly when you read that Brennan is staffing up the GAA – Civil Service mentality again?

[paddypastit]

Good call Hardy.

In fairness, it should I think be pointed out that some aspects of the GAA executive, such as the finance area, are in chronic need of reform.

As much as the contrast between the two men though is the question of what is the role of the President.  Surely the job of administration is that of the Director General.  Should he not be delivering administrative reform.

Note also again the reference to "one of the association's most highly regarded administrators, Páraic Duffy" - media canonisation ahead of becoming 'the obvious' successor to Mulvihill.

The Brennan article is copied below.

Quick to grasp nature of the brief

Annual Congress: Seán Morantalks to GAA president Nickey Brennan, who insists any dealings with the GPA would have to be in the context of not impacting on amateur status.

There's an unmarked door off one of corridors at ground level in the Hogan Stand. It leads to what has been for the past few years an office for the GAA president. The position is so high-profile and visible - a constant whirl of functions, chains of office and speeches delivered to respectful silence - that it's almost a surprise to find a modest control room where the president sits behind a desk and deals with administrative issues.

This afternoon at the GAA's annual congress in his home county of Kilkenny, Nickey Brennan will mark the end of his first year as head of the country's biggest and most influential sporting organisation. His speech will scan the big events of the past 12 months and identify what he sees as the likely dominant themes of his remaining two years in office.

So far nothing has unduly fazed him.

"There's a lot of coming and going involved," he says, "and maybe I didn't read that as well as the other parts of the brief. The travelling can be unproductive. If I could get from A to B faster I'd get a bit more done. It's also fair to say as you move through your presidency issues will emerge that are relevant to the association but may not have been originally on your agenda. Often these are not of your own making, but you have to deal with them."

He emerges from behind the presidential desk in a functional suite of rooms, which admit no natural light. Filing cabinets, a computer and a desk he says will be clean by the time he finishes are the only fixtures. A flat-screen television hangs on the wall and in the outer space sits a decent-sized table, suitable for quite large meetings and, shuttered off from view, a sink and kettle.

Brennan comes from the business world - he is on leave and will return to Glanbia - and it shows in the style of his presidency.

If his predecessor, Seán Kelly, was something of a free spirit, happy in the spotlight and while engaging with the public, you sense Brennan is drawn toward the minutiae of administration. Already he has spearheaded a reorganisation of the association's financial section, staffing it up to reflect the rapidly changing challenges of growing and diversified revenue streams.

One of the big issues on his desk on taking office was the nature of the GAA's relationship with the Gaelic Players Association, the eight-year-old body established to represent intercounty footballers and hurlers. In his inaugural speech last year Brennan was quite hardline about the GPA, accusing them of having a "pay-per-play agenda" and stating, "I am of the view that this remains the ultimate aim of the GPA in some form or other." He also distanced himself from the campaign for player grants, saying any official support would have to be discussed by the association as a whole.

But in the same speech the incoming president also listed detailed proposals on player welfare, including the appointment of a player-welfare manager - a post that went to one of the association's most highly regarded administrators, Páraic Duffy.

Consequently it is notable that less than a year after the caution of these comments an agreement was reached between the GAA and GPA on methods of distributing the proposed Government funding of €5 million. The only question now is whether the public purse is actually going to be opened but at least the matter is off Brennan's desk for the time being.

"In fairness to the association," he says, "there was always an understanding that player welfare was important. I wouldn't like anyone to think that I was a messiah who came out of nowhere to dream up that this was important. What has been done is that we now have a senior manager dealing with the matter on an ongoing basis."

He denies dealing with the GPA is a tightrope walk because of the hostility toward the players among some sections of the membership and has rowed back on his accusations of last year: "Players, particularly intercounty players, are a key part of our association. They deliver big games. There would be a level of concern that the GPA has an agenda that includes pay-for-play. They have assured us that is not their agenda and I take their word."

Nonetheless, the bottom line on this greater engagement with the GPA is that the GAA's amateur status must not be compromised in further discussions about recognition of the players' body and commercial possibilities.

"Any dealings we have with them have to be in the context of not impacting on amateur status and the whole area of volunteerism and not entertaining the concept of pay-for-play. They are fundamental and I won't even discuss them."

This weekend the GAA will be having another tilt at the whole question of discipline on the playing field. A report on improvements to the current code will be debated but already there is dismay among many that a proposal as simple as fixing sanctions for the accumulation of yellow cards is not part of the package.

Not surprisingly, the president disagrees with downbeat assessments of the problem and tends to a more optimistic view.

"I think there's a level of frustration out there that we've brought in so many changes in so many different areas that we're in danger of confusing people. I would say that there's less violence out there than in the past. That doesn't mean we don't have unacceptable incidents from time to time but the intercounty scene generally has improved a good bit."

Probably the biggest flash-fire of the presidency was the furore over last autumn's second International Rules Test at Croke Park, which led to the suspension of this year's series and involved him in some very public hard talking. The mood within the top ranks of the association is still pessimistic about the chances of reviving the international project and Brennan says there is still a lot of hard thinking to be done.

"There will be a more thorough analysis of what we need going forward. Only when we get a response to that from the AFL will we be able to go forward. It's a bit like politics - we'll be looking at talks about talks."

As an administrator from county to provincial and national level, Brennan was possibly best known for his work on the Hurling Development Committee and a famous speech he made at the 1994 congress in Cavan when he declared the game - at which he is an All-Ireland medallist - was in crisis. Nowadays the enduring crisis talk and widely shared pessimism about the lack of competitiveness in the game irritates him slightly. At a recent lunch in Croke Park he semi-jokingly exhorted journalists to "lay off hurling for a while".

"People are looking at this in the wrong context," he says. "Why I feel people have to give up talking pessimistically is that what we're seeing is the traditional dominance of Cork and Tipperary that's always been there.

"I've always said that it's a matter of how you want to measure hurling. Our structures are recognising the strength of counties at various levels. We have also appointed a national hurling development officer and we have facts to prove that more people than ever now are playing hurling.

"I've picked up information recently on new hurling clubs being set up. I know they'll probably never set the world on fire outside of their own county. But it is ironic that places like Mayo and Fermanagh have new clubs. I was at a function in Armagh recently and 600 attended. It was for the Cúchulainns hurling club, who are trying to buy a new pitch. I think there's a much happier audience of hurling counties out there."

But he also accepts there is work to be done if the competition structures are to be optimised and as diplomatically as possible, he hints at the need for change.

"Bear in mind that in answering that question - and I say this not in a negative way - you have one arm tied behind your back because you're starting with the provincial structure. If you had a green-field situation where you were able to use the 32 counties and come up with a set of competitions and also bear in mind the needs of clubs I'm not sure this would be it.

"Hurling and football don't need to have the same competition structures and I would suspect down the road they are not likely to have them. When that will happen I'm not sure but I've said it before - were it not for the competitive nature of the Munster hurling championship you probably would be into a different structure for hurling."

Undoubtedly the biggest event in terms of public impact over the past year has been the opening up of Croke Park to rugby and soccer internationals. It's an issue with which Brennan is closely associated. The motion to relax Rule 42 was passed on the same afternoon he was elected and it was known he would be the president to oversee the implementation.

"My concern was we as an association would run the event well. Our responsibility was to handle the logistics and health-and-safety issues. We decided from an early stage the protocols around the event were none of our business. While we had a whole lot of experience running events I'd say we learned a bit from doing it as well.

"Our association is better-known internationally. I generally felt from talking to international media that they were surprised at the nature of our amateur organisation and how we organise our games and our capacity to build stadia. Croke Park also got a lot of kudos."

Within the organisation the biggest issue has been the reconciling of club and county fixture lists. A special congress last October passed a number of measures aimed at addressing the anger of clubs at intercounty intrusion into their affairs.

"You'll never have everybody happy," says Brennan, "but the situation has to be balanced and the club has to get a better look in. I'm not naive enough to think this is a simple process. There will be a document out within two months of congress that's going to challenge the way we're doing things and will start a huge debate among members and get a huge pick-up in the media."

In the meantime the president will conduct business at his first congress in the chair. Last year he rounded off his speech with a few words of the American football coach - and quotation machine - Vince Lombardi: "Leaders are made, and contrary to the opinion of many, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price we must all pay for success".

So far it's impossible to fault the presidency on that basis.

[deiseach]

Interesting stuff - although that Roman Empire comment had my eyebrows touching my fringe. Say wha'?

I think there's an element of getting in his apocalyptic vision first so that if it happens he can say "I told you so" and if it doesn't happen everyone will have forgotten he ever said it. It's all very well saying we need strategies, but the problem in Dublin (for example) isn't one of strategy. No grand strategy, short of rigging Dublin an All-Ireland every five years - which wouldn't bother me, but football folk might join Hardy in damning such an idea to Hades - is going to get things rolling there. They need to get bodies on the ground, which is more the domain of the kind of bean counters that he seems to hold in contempt. The same with hurling. Offaly's rise to prominence was a 20 year project, yet here we have Peter who seems to be itching with Trotskyite zeal to revamp a 10 year old stadium!

He says a lot I agree with though (I'm sure he cares either way), particularly regarding pay-for-play and TV coverage. And when he says "We have one great game and one good game", which is which?

[magickingdom]

thanks for posting that paddypastit very good. like i said on another thread the gaa are blessed to have had administrators like peter quinn and liam mulvihill these past two decades. they have done superb work....

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Peter Quinn says:

1 Pay-for-play
"We could never afford a professional game. If there's a war over it, the GAA has no choice but to fight because to accept it would be to end the Association as we know it. It would become a Kerry Packer (cricket) like operation where you had a small number of teams involved.

"Using the current structures, the only counties that in my view could afford a semi-professional games are Tyrone, Armagh, Cavan, Mayo, Cork, Kerry, Tipperary, Meath and Kildare. Many people would quit the GAA if it went professional. I helped raise around £100,000 for Fermanagh last year but if players were paid, I'd walk away. I'm sure lots of people around the country feel the same."

2 Player welfare
"Opposing pay-for-play shouldn't be mistaken an as anti-player approach. Without the players we have nothing so they should be well looked after at all times. I'd have some concerns about the manner in which players who are out of work through injury are treated. In some cases, at least, they have to wait an awful long time to receive any money."

And Nickey Brennan says:

"Players, particularly intercounty players, are a key part of our association. They deliver big games. There would be a level of concern that the GPA has an agenda that includes pay-for-play. They have assured us that is not their agenda and I take their word."

"Any dealings we have with them [the GPA] have to be in the context of not impacting on amateur status and the whole area of volunteerism and not entertaining the concept of pay-for-play. They are fundamental and I won't even discuss them."

Can we be reassured by these words, that a) someone of such eminent influence (although no direct control), and b) the current President, are singing from same hymn-sheet as regards pay-for-play (and player welfare)?

Despite Nickey Brennans strong words, is the GAA being suckered into a de facto pay-for-play with any proposed 'grant' system?

[slow corner back]

With regards to Quinns comments about Dublin Brennan was on TV tonight calling for a 25000 seater multi sports stadium in dublin somewhere. He did not directly link it to Tallagh but iots an obvious enough connection. Alternately he may be putting it up to the government, build Tallagh for Shamrock Rovers if you like but build a proper multi sports stadium somewhere else. perhaps some of the Dubs could help me , how feasible is it to upgrade Parnell Park to 25,000 with floodlights?

[magpie seanie]

Thought the article containing Quinn's view was excellent. I agreed with practically all of it. Complacency is what could kill us.

[dublinfella]

With regards to Quinns comments about Dublin Brennan was on TV tonight calling for a 25000 seater multi sports stadium in dublin somewhere. He did not directly link it to Tallagh but iots an obvious enough connection. Alternately he may be putting it up to the government, build Tallagh for Shamrock Rovers if you like but build a proper multi sports stadium somewhere else. perhaps some of the Dubs could help me , how feasible is it to upgrade Parnell Park to 25,000 with floodlights?

he is talking about abbotstown.

[Gnevin]

With regards to Quinns comments about Dublin Brennan was on TV tonight calling for a 25000 seater multi sports stadium in dublin somewhere. He did not directly link it to Tallagh but iots an obvious enough connection. Alternately he may be putting it up to the government, build Tallagh for Shamrock Rovers if you like but build a proper multi sports stadium somewhere else. perhaps some of the Dubs could help me , how feasible is it to upgrade Parnell Park to 25,000 with floodlights?

he is talking about abbotstown.

Or Dublin County Boards land outside tallagh.

[Bud Wiser]

"The Roman Empire ruled the developed world for nearly a century and disappeared in about 20 years."

Is he not getting mixed up with Armagh and the Dub's? Both ruled the world for one year and dissapeared for twenty?

There is no mention of a level playing field in the costs allowed to run a county team to winning at  All-Irreland standards.   JP McManus can throw five or six million at Limerick (and fair play to him) but what about the working men?

We all know what the big counties spend (on team preperation) that have won All-Irelands in recent years.  We equally know that some counties can never come up with this amount of dosh, and if they do in most cases it goes to football. Hurling is neglected at this level outside of the top eight counties. We have a cap introduced on the number of players on a panel yet there is no cap or controls on how much a county can allocate to team preperation.  The Leitrims and the Louths and the Leix's and the Longfords etc then come up against the Dubs for example who have more Physios and doctors and head shrinks and sports scientists and dieticians and hangers on who enjoy holidays in La Manga and training sessions  and injury physio with Brit Premiership clubs than the other counties have players.

[dublinfella]

With regards to Quinns comments about Dublin Brennan was on TV tonight calling for a 25000 seater multi sports stadium in dublin somewhere. He did not directly link it to Tallagh but iots an obvious enough connection. Alternately he may be putting it up to the government, build Tallagh for Shamrock Rovers if you like but build a proper multi sports stadium somewhere else. perhaps some of the Dubs could help me , how feasible is it to upgrade Parnell Park to 25,000 with floodlights?

he is talking about abbotstown.

Or Dublin County Boards land outside tallagh.

No, this is about Abbotstown. A bit cheeky to suggest its a GAA idea, but would be great to see a 25k stadium that the GAA, FAI and IRFU can share. Dublin needs that size a venue.