(http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/CT.jpg)
Cat, meet pigeons.
You should get McStay.
Oh, wait. 8)
This is one story that will continue and continue and continue. I honestly thought the two boys had weathered the storm, but judging by that newspaper headline the storm is just beginning.
That's that for them so.
Now for the next step.
A vote of no confidence in those that made that appointment in the first place. Alright Paddy is gone but the there was a conspiracy there and those around that can t be trusted. Clear the decks.
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2015, 11:34:24 PM
That's that for them so.
Now for the next step.
A vote of no confidence in those that made that appointment in the first place. Alright Paddy is gone but the there was a conspiracy there and those around that can t be trusted. Clear the decks.
Difficult to have sympathy for those who orchestrated the entire process this time last year. Utter stupidity at best, not very well thought out in the event of something remotely close to this happening.
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2015, 11:29:49 PM
You should get McStay.
Oh, wait. 8)
Bad week for Mayo Executive, Pateen and Noel and McStay so.
Surprised by McStay not reading it better. The dogs on the street knew that the 2 lads were dead men walking.
McStay the big looser over the last 12 months through no fault of his own.
If it's true best thing current management can do is walk away straight away. Can't see the County board walking though. Way too much power, brass necks and politics there.
Question has to be Who is out there to replace the boys?
McStay smart enough not to wait for this gig!
Poisoned Chalice!
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 28, 2015, 11:30:06 PM
This is one story that will continue and continue and continue. I honestly thought the two boys had weathered the storm, but judging by that newspaper headline the storm is just beginning.
No Farr. It's over. Just a mess now to clear up and puts us in a messy spotlight that was the making of outgoing and current chairman + a few confidants and 2 blokes that wanted a cut at glory but were out of their depth.
Like you I thought they would dig their heels in and it appeared they tried to do that but local media lads had the inside track and it was becoming clear that their position was untenable.
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2015, 11:29:49 PM
You should get McStay.
Oh, wait. 8)
Bad week for Mayo Executive, Pateen and Noel and McStay so.
Surprised by McStay not reading it better. The dogs on the street knew that the 2 lads were dead men walking.
McStay the big looser over the last 12 months through no fault of his own.
Thought Mayo players vetoed McHale and by association McStay.
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2015, 11:49:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 28, 2015, 11:30:06 PM
This is one story that will continue and continue and continue. I honestly thought the two boys had weathered the storm, but judging by that newspaper headline the storm is just beginning.
No Farr. It's over. Just a mess now to clear up and puts us in a messy spotlight that was the making of outgoing and current chairman + a few confidants and 2 blokes that wanted a cut at glory but were out of their depth.
Like you I thought they would dig their heels in and it appeared they tried to do that but local media lads had the inside track and it was becoming clear that their position was untenable.
What I mean is, will the same rigmarole go on like last year's shenanigans of appointing the new managers? It's going to be the same few who are going to select the management team for next year, why should we expect anything different?
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 28, 2015, 11:45:52 PM
Question has to be Who is out there to replace the boys?
McStay smart enough not to wait for this gig!
Poisoned Chalice!
Disagree. Get rid of the poison. I realise that in the national media that the players will be presented as the poison though.
James Horan returning is surely the only tenable outcome of this?
Barring McStay backing out of the Roscommon job at the last minute, there don't look to be any other realistic candidates?
Quote from: weareros on September 28, 2015, 11:51:34 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2015, 11:29:49 PM
You should get McStay.
Oh, wait. 8)
Bad week for Mayo Executive, Pateen and Noel and McStay so.
Surprised by McStay not reading it better. The dogs on the street knew that the 2 lads were dead men walking.
McStay the big looser over the last 12 months through no fault of his own.
Thought Mayo players vetoed McHale and by association McStay.
I believe so and McStay would not manage Mayo without McHale on his management team.
Quote from: weareros on September 28, 2015, 11:51:34 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2015, 11:29:49 PM
You should get McStay.
Oh, wait. 8)
Bad week for Mayo Executive, Pateen and Noel and McStay so.
Surprised by McStay not reading it better. The dogs on the street knew that the 2 lads were dead men walking.
McStay the big looser over the last 12 months through no fault of his own.
Thought Mayo players vetoed McHale and by association McStay.
I am pretty sure that was a broadside thrown out by our brilliant former chairman at his critics which was nevered backed up with any evidence. I did ask one of the panel last spring if that was true and he said as far as he knew it was bullshit.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 28, 2015, 11:53:10 PM
What I mean is, will the same rigmarole go on like last year's shenanigans of appointing the new managers? It's going to be the same few who are going to select the management team for next year, why should we expect anything different?
Correct, except this year it will be worse as there is no obvious candidates!!
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 28, 2015, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2015, 11:49:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 28, 2015, 11:30:06 PM
This is one story that will continue and continue and continue. I honestly thought the two boys had weathered the storm, but judging by that newspaper headline the storm is just beginning.
No Farr. It's over. Just a mess now to clear up and puts us in a messy spotlight that was the making of outgoing and current chairman + a few confidants and 2 blokes that wanted a cut at glory but were out of their depth.
Like you I thought they would dig their heels in and it appeared they tried to do that but local media lads had the inside track and it was becoming clear that their position was untenable.
What I mean is, will the same rigmarole go on like last year's shenanigans of appointing the new managers? It's going to be the same few who are going to select the management team for next year, why should we expect anything different?
The same few are now shown up. There is going to be an emergency board meeting. Opportunity to ask tough questions and hopefully table a motion of no confidence in any officer around last appointment. Chairman has to go because there is no way he could have a meaningful working relationship with new manager under the new circumstances. Connolly has behaved poorly trying to ringfence this management from criticism. If it turns out that he was being disingenuous about Buckley's position he has to step down.
It has been brought to my attention that JM could be asked to take over the senior as well as the U21 job
Well if Maughan did take over that could mean Buckley might stay on being very close friends with John??
I hope Maughan turns it down because it would be a disaster for him and the current panel in my opinion.
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 29, 2015, 12:06:42 AM
Quote from: weareros on September 28, 2015, 11:51:34 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2015, 11:29:49 PM
You should get McStay.
Oh, wait. 8)
Bad week for Mayo Executive, Pateen and Noel and McStay so.
Surprised by McStay not reading it better. The dogs on the street knew that the 2 lads were dead men walking.
McStay the big looser over the last 12 months through no fault of his own.
Thought Mayo players vetoed McHale and by association McStay.
I am pretty sure that was a broadside thrown out by our brilliant former chairman at his critics which was nevered backed up with any evidence. I did ask one of the panel last spring if that was true and he said as far as he knew it was bullshit.
It was spin of the highest order to discredit McStay application and appoint the incoming chairman's brother. In their addled minds they probably thought Holmes added would make a combo. Anybody that knew anything knew it was a stitch-up from the word go - especially the players.
Quote from: Crete Boom on September 29, 2015, 12:14:57 AM
Well if Maughan did take over that could mean Buckley might stay on being very close friends with John??
I hope Maughan turns it down because it would be a disaster for him and the current panel in my opinion.
Well as my friend, who told me about this development earlier this evening, said; the board will now punish this group of players with their next appointment. Teach them manners. The bottom line is that some county boards are about control and not an ambition like winning an AI. That's why we need a purge and clear the top ranks of anybody associated with the Holmes/Connelly idea.
Moy I have great respect for you but surely the CB would not purposely hinder our chances just to slap the wrists of some players .
Everyone supporters included need to keep cool heads here. The two bucks will go cause they've lost the dressing room . Who takes th boot seat, I don't have a clue.
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2015, 11:29:49 PM
You should get McStay.
Oh, wait. 8)
Bad week for Mayo Executive, Pateen and Noel and McStay so.
Surprised by McStay not reading it better. The dogs on the street knew that the 2 lads were dead men walking.
McStay the big looser over the last 12 months through no fault of his own.
I don't think you understand how much gra McStay has for Roscommon football Moy. Chaired our football review that was implemented this year and ironically played a part in Brigid's reign ending yesterday. And McStay was shouting on Ros. Gaels (his local club) and Brigid's as loud as anyone yesterday.
I don't think McStay would be the sort of man to turn tact just because Mayo's nearly men have started throwing the toys from the cot. Big reason I think he's a very good appointment is he's both a smart man and a good man. Those are in short supply.
2 "fringe panelists" are neighbors of mine and the oul fella spoke to them the week after the Dublin game.....Im not surprised by the latest developmenta to say the least!
Did Donie Buckley actually step down or is he still there?...How will the Mayo players be viewed by the public for their actions?
Quote from: larryin89 on September 29, 2015, 12:32:41 AM
Moy I have great respect for you but surely the CB would not purposely hinder our chances just to slap the wrists of some players .
Everyone supporters included need to keep cool heads here. The two bucks will go cause they've lost the dressing room . Who takes th boot seat, I don't have a clue.
Napoleon made one of his brothers king of Naples and Spain and another king of Holland. Just because he could.
I don t trust them. Peter Ford never got a look in after the '92 debacle.
I've issues about the appointment of H&C. I was amazed at the time that H&C thought they could do the job. My biggest gripe is thought that they tried to dig their heels in when the game was up. They could have left with grace and cited family commitments blah, blah, blah. Instead they are going to go the worst possible way.
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 12:47:25 AM
Did Donie Buckley actually step down or is he still there?...How will the Mayo players be viewed by the public for their actions?
Very good entertaining side who have achieved five in a row provincial titles , contested five all Ireland semi finals on the trot and two finals all in five years.
Roscommon men should only be concerned at how to stop six in a row.
Quote from: larryin89 on September 29, 2015, 12:32:41 AM
Moy I have great respect for you but surely the CB would not purposely hinder our chances just to slap the wrists of some players .
Everyone supporters included need to keep cool heads here. The two bucks will go cause they've lost the dressing room . Who takes th boot seat, I don't have a clue.
Larry,
I have respect for you, but do you live on planet earth.
Look at cast of characters involved over past 3-5 years, do not want to generalize but look at their record in every aspect.
Ballymagash town council would maybe have outdone them
Btw the players now need to know they have our unreserved support.
They bloody well deserve it as well.
Quote from: Syferus on September 29, 2015, 12:41:06 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 28, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2015, 11:29:49 PM
You should get McStay.
Oh, wait. 8)
Bad week for Mayo Executive, Pateen and Noel and McStay so.
Surprised by McStay not reading it better. The dogs on the street knew that the 2 lads were dead men walking.
McStay the big looser over the last 12 months through no fault of his own.
I don't think you understand how much gra McStay has for Roscommon football Moy. Chaired our football review that was implemented this year and ironically played a part in Brigid's reign ending yesterday. And McStay was shouting on Ros. Gaels (his local club) and Brigid's as loud as anyone yesterday.
I don't think McStay would be the sort of man to turn tact just because Mayo's nearly men have started throwing the toys from the cot. Big reason I think he's a very good appointment is he's both a smart man and a good man. Those are in short supply.
The reaction I was expecting because it suits others to present it like that. The reality is though these nearly men almost got there without a functioning management. From a long, long way out.
Of course McStay wont change tact. As you say he is a man of principle and ability. He was badly treated/nay ridiculed by one slawmeen in particular on Mayo Board last year and that type of shite backfires. Best of luck to Kevin in Ros.
The way I read it is the players are against the management structure which could mean that they do not want joint managers and just want one man in charge which I would think would be Connelly or maybe I am completely wrong.It probably was a done deal to appoint Connelly and Holmes but McStay torpedoed his own chances when he wanted monetary compensation for the sunday game gig which I for one would never have agreed to.A complete mess and I guess the only viable option would be James Horan if the H and C are forced to resign
Classy reply as always Moysider.
Quote from: joemamas on September 29, 2015, 12:58:38 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on September 29, 2015, 12:32:41 AM
Moy I have great respect for you but surely the CB would not purposely hinder our chances just to slap the wrists of some players .
Everyone supporters included need to keep cool heads here. The two bucks will go cause they've lost the dressing room . Who takes th boot seat, I don't have a clue.
Larry,
I have respect for you, but do you live on planet earth.
Look at cast of characters involved over past 3-5 years, do not want to generalize but look at their record in every aspect.
Ballymagash town council would maybe have outdone them
Btw the players now need to know they have our unreserved support.
They bloody well deserve it as well.
Fully agree with that. There's a danger here of people being swayed by the old 'players getting too big for their boots' line. These lads have given so much to the cause over the past few years. I'm sure they didn't come to this decision lightly.
Quote from: maigheo on September 29, 2015, 01:05:26 AM
The way I read it is the players are against the management structure which could mean that they do not want joint managers and just want one man in charge which I would think would be Connelly or maybe I am completely wrong.It probably was a done deal to appoint Connelly and Holmes but McStay torpedoed his own chances when he wanted monetary compensation for the sunday game gig which I for one would never have agreed to.A complete mess and I guess the only viable option would be James Horan if the H and C are forced to resign
Not sure Horan would be in a position to commit again? Not sure he would be the best step now either.
I think you are right about the management structure and the big issue was with the senior partner. But H&C came in as a package and should walk as a package. But a likely scenario is that a compromised might be reached and another deal is done and Connelly stays on as manager and more spit and polish from the board. Bad scenario imo. Both have to go. Chairman has no cred either now. Either to be on a body to appoint new management or to have any say in appointing a body to appoint a new management team.
If the Mayo players get their wish to replace this management with a better one and Mayo end up doing worse than this year what then?
I think you are right Moy.Both will have to go no matter what.Back last Oct. I was very much in favor of Connelly being appointed but when it became a joint ticket I felt completely deflated.You are also probably right about Horan not being the correct call at this stage but who else is there except J.M.Why oh why did Mikey Sweeney get blocked down with that last point attempt the first day out v Dublin? >:( >:( >:(
Surely Stephen Rochford is the real obvious choice? Works in Castlerea though so you mightn't like the scent on him.
Quote from: maigheo on September 29, 2015, 01:05:26 AM
The way I read it is the players are against the management structure which could mean that they do not want joint managers and just want one man in charge which I would think would be Connelly or maybe I am completely wrong.It probably was a done deal to appoint Connelly and Holmes but McStay torpedoed his own chances when he wanted monetary compensation for the sunday game gig which I for one would never have agreed to.A complete mess and I guess the only viable option would be James Horan if the H and C are forced to resign
Did Horan not walk partly due to having a young family?
That was the main reason J70 and the more I think about it I do not see him coming back this year.Also I do not think Stephen rochsford will be considered as he wasn't nominated for the u 21 position which by the way will be picked tonite.Hard to believe it but John Maughan stands as good a chance as anyone of being appointed if H and C walk and anyone referencing the Cork hurlers mutiny a few years ago did they not win a few all irelands after ?
Why are the Mayo fans and players blaming their management team throughout this?
They were in a winning position with 15 minutes to go when their player's bottle collapsed. Not much their managers can do when Cillian O'Connor fails to track a runner back or Cafferkey shows Brogan down the inside of him, when Keegan fluffs a free shot from 20 yards out or when Hennelly pussies out of 60/40 ball in his favour.
To be honest it probably says a lot about the character of the players and why they haven't won an All Ireland in that time period. When you're in those winning positions with not long left on the clock, a manager can't do it for you.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 29, 2015, 07:54:58 AM
Why are the Mayo fans and players blaming their management team throughout this?
They were in a winning position with 15 minutes to go when their player's bottle collapsed. Not much their managers can do when Cillian O'Connor fails to track a runner back or Cafferkey shows Brogan down the inside of him, when Keegan fluffs a free shot from 20 yards out or when Hennelly pussies out of 60/40 ball in his favour.
To be honest it probably says a lot about the character of the players and why they haven't won an All Ireland in that time period. When you're in those winning positions with not long left on the clock, a manager can't do it for you.
Valid questions there, but there have been rumblings of discontent since early in the league campaign. The players were used to a top class setup under Horan, and the H&C setup obviously didn't meet the same standards. So there would be a line of thought that the players got themselves into a winning position against Dublin in spite of the mgmt setup rather than because of it.
I'm only looking in from the outside though, so I don't have any idea of the rights and wrongs. But I have great admiration for that bunch of players, and I don't believe they would take this type of decision unless they felt it was stopping them reaching their potential and their goals.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 29, 2015, 07:54:58 AM
Why are the Mayo fans and players blaming their management team throughout this?
They were in a winning position with 15 minutes to go when their player's bottle collapsed. Not much their managers can do when Cillian O'Connor fails to track a runner back or Cafferkey shows Brogan down the inside of him, when Keegan fluffs a free shot from 20 yards out or when Hennelly pussies out of 60/40 ball in his favour.
To be honest it probably says a lot about the character of the players and why they haven't won an All Ireland in that time period. When you're in those winning positions with not long left on the clock, a manager can't do it for you.
If you ask why did Mayo collapse in the last 15 minutes then the answer may lie in the prearations during the 6 day turnaround. The responsibility for how the team were prepared lies with management.
This news and the popes visit to Ireland is no coincidence.
Watch this space.
Frankie is our man for sam.
Will be shocked if this wont break a hundred pages
Quote from: mjg on September 29, 2015, 09:27:09 AM
Will be shocked if this wont break a hundred pages
Adding posts like these 2 certainly will help.
Whatever the ins and outs of this the players really have put savage pressure on themselves. If they get a new manager there is savage pressure to deliver.
This will be fascinating .
Quote from: Tubberman on September 29, 2015, 08:12:33 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 29, 2015, 07:54:58 AM
Why are the Mayo fans and players blaming their management team throughout this?
They were in a winning position with 15 minutes to go when their player's bottle collapsed. Not much their managers can do when Cillian O'Connor fails to track a runner back or Cafferkey shows Brogan down the inside of him, when Keegan fluffs a free shot from 20 yards out or when Hennelly pussies out of 60/40 ball in his favour.
To be honest it probably says a lot about the character of the players and why they haven't won an All Ireland in that time period. When you're in those winning positions with not long left on the clock, a manager can't do it for you.
Valid questions there, but there have been rumblings of discontent since early in the league campaign. The players were used to a top class setup under Horan, and the H&C setup obviously didn't meet the same standards. So there would be a line of thought that the players got themselves into a winning position against Dublin in spite of the mgmt setup rather than because of it.
I'm only looking in from the outside though, so I don't have any idea of the rights and wrongs. But I have great admiration for that bunch of players, and I don't believe they would take this type of decision unless they felt it was stopping them reaching their potential and their goals.
There is no doubt the management team could have done things differently but at the end of the day when you're in the position Mayo were with about 15 mins to go, completely dominant and in the driving seat to win that game then it's in the players hands.
At that stage of the game Mayo did panic, they had defended solidly for that length of the game, worked hard, tackled ferociously and were breaking Dublin's spirit then some unforgivable mistakes crept in and sadly for Mayo it's a familiar pattern for this group of players with making unforgivable mistakes when they're nearly there.
I don't think there's a lot management can do with that, this for me is to with players intuition and their mental resolve. I know this group of Mayo players have given a lot over the last few years but it reflects very poorly on them to blame management for this year.
This kind of thing always ends badly, mark my words!
*throws tarpaulin over Derek McGrath*
Would Horan come back?
Lookit, he's had his break.
Brings back memories of the autumn of 03. Players wanted a change from Dempsey but Dempsey talked them around with changes, improvements, etc. Board read the situation, stepped in and went after Paidí. The rest is history.
Maughtan and from Feb 2016 an unemployed John O'Mahony to assist him is just the ticket for the Rhus.
Sure what could possibly go wrong ;D
I agree that this thread can reach 100 pages. Us Rossies are surely capable of contributing at least 50 pages to it!!....Imo, the Mayo players have been built up as ''little God's'' by the Mayo Gaa public and can do no wrong.. These people and players seem to think that they have a God given right to win Sam, and can't understand why it's not happening. It can't be their '' little God's'' fault, so it has to be management... Someone on here mentioned the preparations in the 6 days between the Dublin games, as the reason why the ''players'' blew a match winning position in the replay and blame it on management. Mind i remind you how these same ''little God's'' blew match winning positions in last year's 2 games against Kerry..Management, the referee and O'Connor/O'Shea clashing heads were to blame. Time for Mayo people to wake up and realise that ,when it comes to winning Sam, their players are good, but not good enough.
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 11:57:06 AM
I agree that this thread can reach 100 pages. Us Rossies are surely capable of contributing at least 50 pages to it!!
Posting the same thing twice is a good help..
Can any Mayo people tell us what the issues with the two lads where? Why are the players against them? Is it just basic incompetence?
Indirectly I have heard that a number of players questioned their commitment as Connelly wasn't always there due to work?
Player power continues it seems. Best thing the two lads can do is resign as soon as
This two manager set-up is a cop-out anyway.
I see the Rossies are doing the same thing now.
Just give it to McStay and let him at it.
Be careful what ye wish for Mayo lads.
County Board could foist Banty or Tommy Tom Carr on ye!
Or Luke Dempsey.
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 11:56:15 AM
I agree that this thread can reach 100 pages. Us Rossies are surely capable of contributing at least 50 pages to it!!....Imo, the Mayo players have been built up as ''little God's'' by the Mayo Gaa public and can do no wrong.. These people and players seem to think that they have a God given right to win Sam, and can't understand why it's not happening. It can't be their '' little God's'' fault, so it has to be management... Someone on here mentioned the preparations in the 6 days between the Dublin games, as the reason why the ''players'' blew a match winning position in the replay and blame it on management. Mind i remind you how these same ''little God's'' blew match winning positions in last year's 2 games against Kerry..Management, the referee and O'Connor/O'Shea clashing heads were to blame. Time for Mayo people to wake up and realise that ,when it comes to winning Sam, their players are good, but not good enough.
Arra, come of it, shrewdy. You've neck like a jockey's undercarriage. :D
'bout a week ago, you were moaning about us Mayos moving in on your patch when we were just trying to sort out your managerial problems and you wanted us to mind our own business. Now what's sauce for the goose is surely sauce for the gander and all that sort of thing. How the hell do you know what's needed to win Sam since you are never likely to find out!!
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 29, 2015, 01:23:55 PM
[carriage. :D
'. How the hell do you know what's needed to win Sam since you are never likely to find out!!
Our 2 counties have a lot in common so ;D - Mayo's ship has sailed again. All the Rossies can breath easier, we can handle not winning Sam knowing yee shower will never win it either. :'( ;D
All banter aside, it was a bit of a cozy cartel with county board & Mayo senior management, I feel the players were correct to air their grievances. No point the players bursting their balls if they don't believe in the system they are in.
If Ross don't win next years Connacht title after all of this they may aswell give up and sell the bus while they are at it.
Quote from: Chimley on September 29, 2015, 08:58:49 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 29, 2015, 07:54:58 AM
Why are the Mayo fans and players blaming their management team throughout this?
They were in a winning position with 15 minutes to go when their player's bottle collapsed. Not much their managers can do when Cillian O'Connor fails to track a runner back or Cafferkey shows Brogan down the inside of him, when Keegan fluffs a free shot from 20 yards out or when Hennelly pussies out of 60/40 ball in his favour.
To be honest it probably says a lot about the character of the players and why they haven't won an All Ireland in that time period. When you're in those winning positions with not long left on the clock, a manager can't do it for you.
If you ask why did Mayo collapse in the last 15 minutes then the answer may lie in the prearations during the 6 day turnaround. The responsibility for how the team were prepared lies with management.
They collapsed because the players made unforgivable individual mistakes.
PP odds on the next Mayo manager:
Horan 6/4
Rochford 5/2
Buckley 6/1
Maughan 13/2
Nallen 7/1
Ford 8/1
McGuinness 9/1
J O'Connor 10/1
McGarry 12/1
Gilvarry 14/1
Canavan 20/1
L McHale 25/1
Niall Heffernan 25/1
Eamon O'Hara 33/1
It continues to get even more ludicrous as you go further down the odds.......
Cant beat a good off-season putsch against a management team. One of the signs winter is coming.
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 29, 2015, 02:26:52 PM
PP odds on the next Mayo manager:
Horan 6/4
Rochford 5/2
Buckley 6/1
Maughan 13/2
Nallen 7/1
Ford 8/1
McGuinness 9/1
J O'Connor 10/1
McGarry 12/1
Gilvarry 14/1
Canavan 20/1
L McHale 25/1
Niall Heffernan 25/1
Eamon O'Hara 33/1
It continues to get even more ludicrous as you go further down the odds.......
Maughan/O'Hara dream team please. The tanned twosome.
Unless Rochford is interested, I can't see anyone in that list realistically being in the picture
Having Eamonn O'Hara's name on any managerial list is the ultimate in madness. Don't forget that John Evans is still available.
Buckley on that list at 6/1 is the bet.
He was the first man that entered my head when this fiasco appeared.
icant see what would stop mc stay .
couldn't he coach roscommon in his spare time...
Seriously
it would be a major mistake to change now . Mayo Drew with the unbeatable Dubs and were winning the replay with a few minutes to go and only that the players were falling like flies in the last quater they could well have won.
that is a sucessful year and it would be the height of stupidity to cut off you nose to spite your face just because the players and fans want a head .
Mayo probably need a few new players and management need to do a few things better but to get into a cycle of sacking manager just because they don't win an allireland is madness for a county who havent won since 1951 .
Before you know it luke dempsey or Tommy carr will be in charge
The same day McStay gets the Roscommon job the Mayo team is in revolt. Really couldn't write this.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on September 29, 2015, 02:29:34 PM
Maughan/O'Hara dream team please. The tanned twosome.
:D
If they could only get Tommy Tom as well then it would be a real "If Carlsberg did management teams"
Tommy Tom and the Tanned Twosome :-*
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on September 29, 2015, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 29, 2015, 02:26:52 PM
PP odds on the next Mayo manager:
Horan 6/4
Rochford 5/2
Buckley 6/1
Maughan 13/2
Nallen 7/1
Ford 8/1
McGuinness 9/1
J O'Connor 10/1
McGarry 12/1
Gilvarry 14/1
Canavan 20/1
L McHale 25/1
Niall Heffernan 25/1
Eamon O'Hara 33/1
It continues to get even more ludicrous as you go further down the odds.......
Maughan/O'Hara dream team please. The tanned twosome.
This! Hahahahaha ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: rosnarun on September 29, 2015, 05:28:06 PM
icant see what would stop mc stay .
couldn't he coach roscommon in his spare time...
Seriously
it would be a major mistake to change now . Mayo Drew with the unbeatable Dubs and were winning the replay with a few minutes to go and only that the players were falling like flies in the last quater they could well have won.
that is a sucessful year and it would be the height of stupidity to cut off you nose to spite your face just because the players and fans want a head .
Mayo probably need a few new players and management need to do a few things better but to get into a cycle of sacking manager just because they don't win an allireland is madness for a county who havent won since 1951 .
Before you know it luke dempsey or Tommy carr will be in charge
What manager was sacked for not winning an All Ireland ?
What would happen if the following scenario happens.....As Mayo don't have another game for just 3 months, H/C might stand their ground, believing that their year was as good as some of James Horan's. They're bound to have the backing of the Co Board in this stance. Where does that leave the players? Do they go on strike?... The vote went 27-7 against H/C with a few players absent.
If H & C weren't up to it and they weren't/aren't willing to walk away with dignity then the players had no option. They've seen what it's like to work in an elite environment and any backward step from that was always unacceptable. Are they a few players short? At the moment yes. Can a manager who is an improvement on Horan make up that difference? I think yes is the answer to that too.
These players are giving far too much commitment and sacrificing way more than most of us can fathom. If H & C were holding them back then they had no choice. People are talking about how they've put themselves under huge pressure. Nonsense. They're already putting themselves under more pressure than any other team is under. Having a good, trustworthy management team in place is the least they need to work with to land the big one. They're demanding it and rightfully so, otherwise they're wasting their time.
No matter who is in charge they'll win Connacht next year. The big tests come in August. The key now is to pick someone who is an improvement on Horan, not a backward step like the two lads (apparently) were.
An astute outsider would be the only option in my opinion. There aren't many of those around, however.
McStay must be sick that he didn't hold off on taking the Roscommon job for another week. Looking at the list of names proposed there are not too many jumping out as being top class and surely McStay would have been the obvious candidate.
Quote from: yellowcard on September 29, 2015, 07:39:21 PM
McStay must be sick that he didn't hold off on taking the Roscommon job for another week. Looking at the list of names proposed there are not too many jumping out as being top class and surely McStay would have been the obvious candidate.
He was very unlikely to have wanted the job after how he and his family members were dicked around last Autumn. A lot of people talking shite and not having a clue how toxic it was.
#prayforkevin
Quote from: yellowcard on September 29, 2015, 07:39:21 PM
McStay must be sick that he didn't hold off on taking the Roscommon job .
I'd say he's absolutely feckin delighted he got the Ros job in time to keep him away from the Rhu poison toxic chalice.
Interesting piece from Marty on Rte 6pm news. He said according to '' his sources in Mayo'', H/C won't be stepping down..
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 08:29:33 PM
Interesting piece from Marty on Rte 6pm news. He said according to '' his sources in Mayo'', H/C won't be stepping down..
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0929/731226-video-mayo-football-in-a-bad-way/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0929/731226-video-mayo-football-in-a-bad-way/)
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 08:29:33 PM
Interesting piece from Marty on Rte 6pm news. He said according to '' his sources in Mayo'', H/C won't be stepping down..
We haven't heard anything to the contrary either Shrewdness. I didn't see the 6.01 news, but Marty's source may be correct. If, and I stress If, they drag their heels, what then? The players sgrike or what?
John Evans is yere man, he will suit ye rightly, he loves TALKING about winning all-Irelands.
Quote from: giveballaghback on September 29, 2015, 08:41:32 PM
John Evans is yere man, he will suit ye rightly, he loves TALKING about winning all-Irelands.
Definitely was the wrong man for ye then!
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 29, 2015, 08:37:00 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 08:29:33 PM
Interesting piece from Marty on Rte 6pm news. He said according to '' his sources in Mayo'', H/C won't be stepping down..
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0929/731226-video-mayo-football-in-a-bad-way/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0929/731226-video-mayo-football-in-a-bad-way/)
Carney is talking a load of the usual stuff once again.
He's going on rumour and innuendo and making a jackass of himself without having to try very hard.
Yep, we all heard that some or all of the players did not want Liam McHale on board in any shape or form but that was rumour, plain and simple. There was nothing produced to back up that claim. Even if it were proved to be true, it still was a non-runner as the CB made it crystal clear that McStay wasn't welcome under any circumstances.
What the lads thought of Lord Liam didn't come into the reckoning at all.
So, who do the players want? I haven't a fecking clue and neither does Carney. After all, they've just said the don't want Laurel and Hardy in charge- no more and no less.
"What manager in his right mind would want to come in and manage Mayo now?" sez he.
Why not? The discontent has been brewing for months and yet nothing was done to sort issues out until the players decided they had enough. No damn doubt about it, Mike must have that the bro was not going down well with the players but he chose to ignore this.
When you consider the effort and the time as well as the cost, mental as well as financial, that those players have put in over the years, they deserve better than to be treated like rowdy troublemakers by the likes of Carney.
Well done Rossies, keep thinking ye have one up on Mayo. Usually starts in January around time of FBD so ye are ahead of schedule this year. We'll see ye off with your tails between your legs come summer time as usual. All the more satisfying
Jeez dont be blaming us for yere stupidity.We feel yere pain 8)
Two mutinies and one veto in how many years?
Vincent Neary's interview on Off the Ball. He said he hadn't heard of any trouble at all until this morning. He said there were processes in place to deal with this sort of thing. Next Thursday the County board are meeting the players, NEXT THURSDAY!!! What the f**k is happening between now and then?
Players need to appoint a manager soon the league is only around the corner
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 29, 2015, 09:53:22 PM
Vincent Neary's interview on Off the Ball. He said he hadn't heard of any trouble at all until this morning. He said there were processes in place to deal with this sort of thing. Next Thursday the County board are meeting the players, NEXT THURSDAY!!! What the f**k is happening between now and then?
His interview is a joke. He sounded really weak and struggled to contain the conversation. It was laughable that he came on national airwaves to claim he did not hear about any trouble in the camp and this news today was a bombshell. Where has he been for the past 4 weeks when all these rumours have been flying around.
Quote from: Nihilist on September 29, 2015, 09:58:07 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 29, 2015, 09:53:22 PM
Vincent Neary's interview on Off the Ball. He said he hadn't heard of any trouble at all until this morning. He said there were processes in place to deal with this sort of thing. Next Thursday the County board are meeting the players, NEXT THURSDAY!!! What the f**k is happening between now and then?
His interview is a joke. He sounded really weak and struggled to contain the conversation. It was laughable that he came on national airwaves to claim he did not hear about any trouble in the camp and this news today was a bombshell. Where has he been for the past 4 weeks when all these rumours have been flying around.
Indeed, he contradicted himself by saying that the players and county board have a good relationship! What planet was he on?
No doubt ye saw Mike Connelly on the news as well. He seemed to express a little surprise at events and more or less said that both sides needed to sit down and thrash out a resolution...Didn't sound like a man expecting any resignations.......Tubberman, this isn't about us getting one up on Mayo. We're only commenting on a story that has the whole country talking.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2015, 08:21:18 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on September 29, 2015, 07:39:21 PM
McStay must be sick that he didn't hold off on taking the Roscommon job .
I'd say he's absolutely feckin delighted he got the Ros job in time to keep him away from the Rhu poison toxic chalice.
Crikey I'm really looking forward to Ye danderin up mchale road thinking Ye have us next summer .
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on September 29, 2015, 02:28:07 PM
Cant beat a good off-season putsch against a management team. One of the signs winter is coming.
Won't be long til Christmas now ......
Quote from: highorlow on September 29, 2015, 03:02:03 PM
Buckley on that list at 6/1 is the bet.
He was the first man that entered my head when this fiasco appeared.
Only problem with that is that I'd say he has zero interest in actually being manager.
Wonder how long that bet will run with Paddypower - if H&C stay does it mean the bet will still be running next year when they eventually get the bullet?
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 10:07:37 PM
Tubberman, this isn't about us getting one up on Mayo. We're only commenting on a story that has the whole country talking.
Bollix shrewd, you were in a tizzy last week when this was being discussed on the Mayo board. Enjoy it while you can though
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 10:07:37 PM
No doubt ye saw Mike Connelly on the news as well. He seemed to express a little surprise at events and more or less said that both sides needed to sit down and thrash out a resolution...Didn't sound like a man expecting any resignations.......Tubberman, this isn't about us getting one up on Mayo. We're only commenting on a story that has the whole country talking.
Lol. If he thought acting the gome was a good idea he needs to think again. What did he say?
Mike Connolly/Connelly said '' we're in a bad place at the minute
and we've got to open up negotiations with the players to find out exactly what has caused this problem because as I said we ve had the process to eliminate this happenin' ''After the first statement ( which I agree with) poor Mike lost it. This man has been chairman and his brother has been managing the team for the year and its like this has come as a surprise ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. Christ the local press ahs been keepin a lid on this for months and fair play to Mayo News for running with the story.
What has caused this problem? Mike, you have actually, by being cute with the former chairman and maybe others to orchestrate a situation where your brother and a sidekick would get the gig. Both out of their depth. Paddy and Mike have acted with a duplicity that would put Renaissance Popes to shame. But not smart enough to pull it off.
'A process to eliminate this happening' ?? Is this just gobbledegook :-\ What does that mean?
What process had he in place to eliminate what happening?? Shite talk of the highest order.
Now I know Mike is playing hard ball for his brother's reputation but he in a situation where he has little or no credibility left himself. I have no faith in this fella doing the right thing.
Of course there will be backing from reactionaries like Martin Carney who really needs to calm down a bit. Disappointing that he was attributing nasty spin from board about Liam McHale to the Mayo players to make a point. Bad form.
Best fun ive had since the dog bit the mother in law.
Quote from: moysider on September 29, 2015, 10:53:54 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 10:07:37 PM
No doubt ye saw Mike Connelly on the news as well. He seemed to express a little surprise at events and more or less said that both sides needed to sit down and thrash out a resolution...Didn't sound like a man expecting any resignations.......Tubberman, this isn't about us getting one up on Mayo. We're only commenting on a story that has the whole country talking.
What process had he in place to eliminate what happening?? Shite talk of the highest order.
Presumably discussion between the nominated players and player liason/CB management rather than hitting the nuclear button again?
Quote from: giveballaghback on September 29, 2015, 10:56:49 PM
Best fun ive had since the dog bit the mother in law.
Tell me did the mother in law bite back ? :)
Personally as a spectator I'd prefer a inter-club upheaval far more than an inter-county one - club ones have far more potential to be vicious/provide entertainment.
Quote from: moysider on September 29, 2015, 10:53:54 PM
Lol. If he thought acting the gome was a good idea he needs to think again. What did he say?
What has caused this problem? Mike, you have actually, by being cute with the former chairman and maybe others to orchestrate a situation where your brother and a sidekick would get the gig. Both out of their depth. Paddy and Mike have acted with a duplicity that would put Renaissance Popes to shame. But not smart enough to pull it off.
One of the GAA commandments - anyone who acts the gom(e) generally is a gom(e)
Two Hands, when its a Mayo upheaval its very sweet for a Ballagh border collie like meself, by the way I did not bite the mother in law, id be a feared. ;D
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 29, 2015, 09:53:22 PM
Vincent Neary's interview on Off the Ball. He said he hadn't heard of any trouble at all until this morning. He said there were processes in place to deal with this sort of thing. Next Thursday the County board are meeting the players, NEXT THURSDAY!!! What the f**k is happening between now and then?
They ve been stalling for weeks and probably thought they would get away with it until the Mayo News had the balls to blow them out of the water.
Vincy hadn t heard of any trouble? If you hadn t a stór you in the wrong position. Bad situ if whole county knows there is a crisis before Co. Sec. does ::) He' s threading water as well at this stage and losing credibility fast.
He echoes Mike C. with the 'processes in place to deal with this sort of thing'. There's a war cabinet in place now obviously but who came up with that??
Again why the f**k would anybody put processes in place to deal with 'this sort of thing'? What could these processes (plural) possibly be ( swat teams? Gestapo?).
Anyway whatever processes they had in place ( look we all know it was just silly agreed soundbite that meant nothing) didn't work and they have a right mess on their hands. Chairman and Secretary need to stop digging right now and put a halt to a situation they created. They need to consider their own positions as well and do the right thing for the county.
Quote from: heffo on September 29, 2015, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 29, 2015, 10:53:54 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 10:07:37 PM
No doubt ye saw Mike Connelly on the news as well. He seemed to express a little surprise at events and more or less said that both sides needed to sit down and thrash out a resolution...Didn't sound like a man expecting any resignations.......Tubberman, this isn't about us getting one up on Mayo. We're only commenting on a story that has the whole country talking.
What process had he in place to eliminate what happening?? Shite talk of the highest order.
Presumably discussion between the nominated players and player liason/CB management rather than hitting the nuclear button again?
Well, that went well didn't it ::)
The nuclear button remark is a bit unfair. Johnno's mess was tolerated for 4 sad years and was left in place until he crawled away after losing to Sligo and Longford in 2010. Where does the 'again' come from?
Quote from: moysider on September 29, 2015, 11:52:22 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 29, 2015, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 29, 2015, 10:53:54 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 10:07:37 PM
No doubt ye saw Mike Connelly on the news as well. He seemed to express a little surprise at events and more or less said that both sides needed to sit down and thrash out a resolution...Didn't sound like a man expecting any resignations.......Tubberman, this isn't about us getting one up on Mayo. We're only commenting on a story that has the whole country talking.
What process had he in place to eliminate what happening?? Shite talk of the highest order.
Presumably discussion between the nominated players and player liason/CB management rather than hitting the nuclear button again?
Where does the 'again' come from?
Didn't the players revolt against Moran & Morrison?
Quote from: ck on September 29, 2015, 12:10:36 PM
Can any Mayo people tell us what the issues with the two lads where? Why are the players against them? Is it just basic incompetence?
Indirectly I have heard that a number of players questioned their commitment as Connelly wasn't always there due to work?
I wouldn't mind a summary either. In the absence of one, many of the posts here are coming across as, shall we say, mean-spirited.
Quote from: heffo on September 30, 2015, 09:19:20 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 29, 2015, 11:52:22 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 29, 2015, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 29, 2015, 10:53:54 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 29, 2015, 10:07:37 PM
No doubt ye saw Mike Connelly on the news as well. He seemed to express a little surprise at events and more or less said that both sides needed to sit down and thrash out a resolution...Didn't sound like a man expecting any resignations.......Tubberman, this isn't about us getting one up on Mayo. We're only commenting on a story that has the whole country talking.
What process had he in place to eliminate what happening?? Shite talk of the highest order.
Presumably discussion between the nominated players and player liason/CB management rather than hitting the nuclear button again?
Where does the 'again' come from?
Didn't the players revolt against Moran & Morrison?
No , the county board humiliated them at a board meeting then told them they weren't needed after they were assured Jonno would take the job.
Have heard the name of a prominent member of the Mayo team, who is '' rumoured'' to have been one of the 7 players who voted to keep H/C in charge. However, there aren't any quotes directly from the player himself, so i don't think he should have been named... I know i'm from a different county, but i feel a bit sorry for H/C. They maintained Div 1 status, won 5 in a row in Connacht by a record margin, and then lost an AISF in a replay, to the eventual winners..
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 30, 2015, 09:45:00 AM
Have heard the name of a prominent member of the Mayo team, who is '' rumoured'' to have been one of the 7 players who voted to keep H/C in charge. However, there aren't any quotes directly from the player himself, so i don't think he should have been named... I know i'm from a different county, but i feel a bit sorry for H/C. They maintained Div 1 status, won 5 in a row in Connacht by a record margin, and then lost an AISF in a replay, to the eventual winners..
And likely would have won it if Keegan had put the ball over the bar and O'Sé had kept his cool and avoided the black card.
Mayo players must have been listening to the interviews with Conor Deegan and James McCartan recently where they spoke about a similar mutiny in the Down camp in 93 and without any changes in management won the following years All-Ireland
Meeting tomorrow, not next Thursday. Apologies Vincent.
Quote from: ck on September 29, 2015, 12:10:36 PM
Can any Mayo people tell us what the issues with the two lads where? Why are the players against them? Is it just basic incompetence?
Indirectly I have heard that a number of players questioned their commitment as Connelly wasn't always there due to work?
Player power continues it seems. Best thing the two lads can do is resign as soon as
This row has been going on for quite some time; it's not a case of players reacting badly to the loss of the semi-final or anything like that.
Definitely, at the time Mayo played Dublin in the league, it was plain for all to see that there was something seriously wrong going on behind the scenes.
James Horan took the unprecedented step of appealing to the Mayo coach, Donie Buckley, to step in and sort things out (or something like that.)
From what I hear, players are unhappy at the cut back in expenses. Horan stood up to the county board, same as Mickey Moram did and look where it got him! I'm told that now even the bloody sandwiches are counted at the end of training sessions.
I can understand the Board's pov to an extent alright; they have to worry about a whole assload of other expenses and not just the senior panel. But IMO it's extremely mean-spirited to cut back on the facilities the panel enjoyed under Horan. The vast majority have sweated and slaved for five years or more and they have every reason to believe that they are up to the standard required to lift the Sam Maguire. It's not as if they don't earn their keep.
After all, the thousands that follow the team pay good money at the gate and they don't come along to see Laurel and Hardy arsing about on the sideline. There are other issues causing the present standoff but they are only hearsay.
In any event, the two buckos were dead men walking as soon as they took on the gig.
Pateen said first of all that he wasn't interested in replacing Horan. Then he made a dramatic U turn and re-entered the proceedings. It was obvious to the dogs in the street that he was letting himself be used - anything to stop Kevin McStay. Same goes for Connelly- he came out of nowhere- maybe it's just coincidence that he happens to be Mike's brother!
In common-or-garden English both were parachuted in to save the Board's blushes. The players have earned the respect of all concerned with Mayo football and if they are not happy, gobshites like Carney won't make things any better.
This vote of no-confidence has nothing to do with the results (which were generally better than what I would have expected at the start of the year) or player selection and everything to do with the team preparation over the course of the year. Malachy Clerkin's piece in the Times mentions of few of these - from what I can see, no single complaint represents a "smoking gun" of incompetence but combined I guess the players felt the whole setup was amateur compared to what they were used to. I'd imagine that this feeling around the team setup contributed to Buckley leaving also.
It's worth remembering that C&H were U21 managers from 06-09 so it's not a case of the team simply being used to Horan's methods since a large chunk of the senior players would have served under them (and won an AI in 06) at one stage or another.
Keegan, ALLEGEDLY voted in favour of H+C.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 30, 2015, 11:46:32 AM
Keegan, ALLEGEDLY voted in favour of H+C.
He didn't. The only spin that's coming out is coming from H/C. The players have not come out and said anything in public as yet. The fact that Pat Holmes saw fit to run to the local papers with it speaks volumes about the level of respect that they have for this group of players.
Quote from: MusclesMagoo on September 30, 2015, 11:50:19 AM
He didn't. The only spin that's coming out is coming from H/C. The players have not come out and said anything in public as yet. The fact that Pat Holmes saw fit to run to the local papers with it speaks volumes about the level of respect that they have for this group of players.
Why do you say it was Pat Homes only? Surely it could have been either of the Connelly brother or someone else for that matter as well? Or do you just see Pat solely as the issue here?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 30, 2015, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 30, 2015, 09:45:00 AM
Have heard the name of a prominent member of the Mayo team, who is '' rumoured'' to have been one of the 7 players who voted to keep H/C in charge. However, there aren't any quotes directly from the player himself, so i don't think he should have been named... I know i'm from a different county, but i feel a bit sorry for H/C. They maintained Div 1 status, won 5 in a row in Connacht by a record margin, and then lost an AISF in a replay, to the eventual winners..
And likely would have won it if Keegan had put the ball over the bar and O'Sé had kept his cool and avoided the black card.
agree with all this. Have a good few Mayo players lost the run of themselves?
The players apparently didn't want McHale involved in the management with Kevin McStay last year because of comments Mchale made about them in a local Mayo paper.
They don't want the current 2, who do they want?
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 30, 2015, 12:41:14 PM
The players apparently didn't want McHale involved in the management with Kevin McStay last year because of comments Mchale made about them in a local Mayo paper.
They don't want the current 2, who do they want?
Mayo posters have repeatedly said that was the Mayo CB seeding BS to support their agenda. That's the more believable of the two possibilities too.
Maybe the ballina posters were saying. Mchale does talk a lot of shite, made no impression with Cavan this year.
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 30, 2015, 01:05:52 PM
Maybe the ballina posters were saying. Mchale does talk a lot of shite, made no impression with Cavan this year.
In fairness he wasn't working with forwards the calibur of what he has now.. :-X
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 12:46:33 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 30, 2015, 12:41:14 PM
The players apparently didn't want McHale involved in the management with Kevin McStay last year because of comments Mchale made about them in a local Mayo paper.
They don't want the current 2, who do they want?
Mayo posters have repeatedly said that was the Mayo CB seeding BS to support their agenda. That's the more believable of the two possibilities too.
That raises the question why the players never corrected the record when a clearly dejected McHale said he never saw himself involved with Mayo again upon hearing the news and when McStay stated that the players were over-sensitive (God bless their sensitive souls or something to that effect were his words) if that was the reason he was not considered. Why would they not correct the record with two highly respected Mayo legends if they had not objected to McHale? And what were the words in the local Mayo press that so rattled them?
Quote from: Nihilist on September 30, 2015, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: MusclesMagoo on September 30, 2015, 11:50:19 AM
He didn't. The only spin that's coming out is coming from H/C. The players have not come out and said anything in public as yet. The fact that Pat Holmes saw fit to run to the local papers with it speaks volumes about the level of respect that they have for this group of players.
Why do you say it was Pat Homes only? Surely it could have been either of the Connelly brother or someone else for that matter as well? Or do you just see Pat solely as the issue here?
No I don't and you could probably have included Noel in that as well but I only know about Pat being behind the story whereas anyone elses involvement I'm not 100% sure of.
Quote from: weareros on September 30, 2015, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 12:46:33 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 30, 2015, 12:41:14 PM
The players apparently didn't want McHale involved in the management with Kevin McStay last year because of comments Mchale made about them in a local Mayo paper.
They don't want the current 2, who do they want?
Mayo posters have repeatedly said that was the Mayo CB seeding BS to support their agenda. That's the more believable of the two possibilities too.
That raises the question why the players never corrected the record when a clearly dejected McHale said he never saw himself involved with Mayo again upon hearing the news and when McStay stated that the players were over-sensitive (God bless their sensitive souls or something to that effect were his words) if that was the reason he was not considered. Why would they not correct the record with two highly respected Mayo legends if they had not objected to McHale? And what were the words in the local Mayo press that so rattled them?
So what you're saying is that the CB last year were so close to the Mayo players that they rejected McStay & McHale (without interviewing them) due to misgivings from the players??
And this year, the same CB are so detached from the players that these rumblings came as a complete shock??? :o
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: weareros on September 30, 2015, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 12:46:33 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 30, 2015, 12:41:14 PM
The players apparently didn't want McHale involved in the management with Kevin McStay last year because of comments Mchale made about them in a local Mayo paper.
They don't want the current 2, who do they want?
Mayo posters have repeatedly said that was the Mayo CB seeding BS to support their agenda. That's the more believable of the two possibilities too.
That raises the question why the players never corrected the record when a clearly dejected McHale said he never saw himself involved with Mayo again upon hearing the news and when McStay stated that the players were over-sensitive (God bless their sensitive souls or something to that effect were his words) if that was the reason he was not considered. Why would they not correct the record with two highly respected Mayo legends if they had not objected to McHale? And what were the words in the local Mayo press that so rattled them?
So what you're saying is that the CB last year were so close to the Mayo players that they rejected McStay & McHale (without interviewing them) due to misgivings from the players??
And this year, the same CB are so detached from the players that these rumblings came as a complete shock??? :o
All I am stating is that the county board informed McStay (according to McStay) that the players did not want McHale. McStay went on record about this. If the county board misrepresented the players to McStay (which would be a very serious thing), then the players or a representative from the players should have corrected that. Now maybe they did but not in public anyway.
Was talking to a current Mayo player in a work situation earlier today, he started both Dublin games and played well, there were two things he mentioned to me, one last in the League game against Dublin earlier in the year, the current managers asked the player what did they think was the best way tactically to go in the second half! Also, he claimed that there was no defined tactical plan going into the second game... it was said on the bus going to the match,"We will see how the first 15 goes, and play it in 10 minute segments after that"..i asked him about pressuring Cluxton on the kick out, the management told them "The dubs will be expecting that, so we dont be using up your energy" ..... As he said himself, it was "Bullshit" from beginning to end. That's one man's story, don't know if that's how it was or not.
Quote from: weareros on September 30, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: weareros on September 30, 2015, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 12:46:33 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 30, 2015, 12:41:14 PM
The players apparently didn't want McHale involved in the management with Kevin McStay last year because of comments Mchale made about them in a local Mayo paper.
They don't want the current 2, who do they want?
Mayo posters have repeatedly said that was the Mayo CB seeding BS to support their agenda. That's the more believable of the two possibilities too.
That raises the question why the players never corrected the record when a clearly dejected McHale said he never saw himself involved with Mayo again upon hearing the news and when McStay stated that the players were over-sensitive (God bless their sensitive souls or something to that effect were his words) if that was the reason he was not considered. Why would they not correct the record with two highly respected Mayo legends if they had not objected to McHale? And what were the words in the local Mayo press that so rattled them?
So what you're saying is that the CB last year were so close to the Mayo players that they rejected McStay & McHale (without interviewing them) due to misgivings from the players??
And this year, the same CB are so detached from the players that these rumblings came as a complete shock??? :o
All I am stating is that the county board informed McStay (according to McStay) that the players did not want McHale. McStay went on record about this. If the county board misrepresented the players to McStay (which would be a very serious thing), then the players or a representative from the players should have corrected that. Now maybe they did but not in public anyway.
The new management team was a done deal at that stage, what was to be gained from setting the record straight in a public manner?
Old saying goes . ........... Players win championships, managers lose them.
From what I saw anyway Mayo were the second best team this year in the championship. Didn't look a shambles or poorly managed in any of the two semi finals they played.
Pretty poor imo to be pinpointing a league game in early spring as a rod to beat the current management with.
Would be amazed if MCB allow the management team to be changed.
Anyway, the first thing a new manager would do imo is gut the current panel of say 6 to 8 players . Which would be ironic.
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 03:23:48 PM
Quote from: weareros on September 30, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: weareros on September 30, 2015, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 12:46:33 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 30, 2015, 12:41:14 PM
The players apparently didn't want McHale involved in the management with Kevin McStay last year because of comments Mchale made about them in a local Mayo paper.
They don't want the current 2, who do they want?
Mayo posters have repeatedly said that was the Mayo CB seeding BS to support their agenda. That's the more believable of the two possibilities too.
That raises the question why the players never corrected the record when a clearly dejected McHale said he never saw himself involved with Mayo again upon hearing the news and when McStay stated that the players were over-sensitive (God bless their sensitive souls or something to that effect were his words) if that was the reason he was not considered. Why would they not correct the record with two highly respected Mayo legends if they had not objected to McHale? And what were the words in the local Mayo press that so rattled them?
So what you're saying is that the CB last year were so close to the Mayo players that they rejected McStay & McHale (without interviewing them) due to misgivings from the players??
And this year, the same CB are so detached from the players that these rumblings came as a complete shock??? :o
All I am stating is that the county board informed McStay (according to McStay) that the players did not want McHale. McStay went on record about this. If the county board misrepresented the players to McStay (which would be a very serious thing), then the players or a representative from the players should have corrected that. Now maybe they did but not in public anyway.
The new management team was a done deal at that stage, what was to be gained from setting the record straight in a public manner?
Aido could've tweeted it
For the Mayo heads out there, forget about the tactics and training etc around the team but is the squad that the current management the best available or are there any standout omissions that they really should have brought in?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 30, 2015, 03:50:09 PM
For the Mayo heads out there, forget about the tactics and training etc around the team but is the squad that the current management the best available or are there any standout omissions that they really should have brought in?
IMO, what's there is pretty much as good as we have. As with any squad, you can argue about some fringe players but there's no glaring omission
True. Likes of Carolan and Gibbons may come into the reckoning again if they regain full fitness and form.
QuoteWas talking to a current Mayo player in a work situation earlier today, he started both Dublin games and played well, there were two things he mentioned to me, one last in the League game against Dublin earlier in the year, the current managers asked the player what did they think was the best way tactically to go in the second half! Also, he claimed that there was no defined tactical plan going into the second game... it was said on the bus going to the match,"We will see how the first 15 goes, and play it in 10 minute segments after that"..i asked him about pressuring Cluxton on the kick out, the management told them "The dubs will be expecting that, so we dont be using up your energy" ..... As he said himself, it was "Bullshit" from beginning to end. That's one man's story, don't know if that's how it was or not.
Holy Shit. That's cat.
Quote from: highorlow on September 30, 2015, 05:40:01 PM
QuoteWas talking to a current Mayo player in a work situation earlier today, he started both Dublin games and played well, there were two things he mentioned to me, one last in the League game against Dublin earlier in the year, the current managers asked the player what did they think was the best way tactically to go in the second half! Also, he claimed that there was no defined tactical plan going into the second game... it was said on the bus going to the match,"We will see how the first 15 goes, and play it in 10 minute segments after that"..i asked him about pressuring Cluxton on the kick out, the management told them "The dubs will be expecting that, so we dont be using up your energy" ..... As he said himself, it was "Bullshit" from beginning to end. That's one man's story, don't know if that's how it was or not.
Holy Shit. That's cat.
Surely the players had somebody in mind as a new manager prior to this meeting. I cant see the likes of Cillian O' Connor and Keith Higgins having this meeting with out some preplanning having been already done. Since they seem to be close to Buckley would he have made informal approaches through some of his contacts in the GAA outside Mayo. This team is still Horans team so it will take a manager with a serious pedigree for this set of players to sit up and listen.
I wouldn't be sure they players have someone in mind and I don't think the players should have much of a say in choosing the manager. I think they're looking for a professional setup rather than a particular person
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
If the Mayo players threaten to withdraw en masse from the panel, the Mayo Co Board could call their bluff and disband the panel. When the Roscommon Senior team's discipline went a bit hollywood 12 or 13 years ago, the Co Board disbanded the panel. I'm sure it won't happen in Mayo, but one thing's for sure, the Mayo Co Board won't appreciate the player's putting a ''gun to their head''.
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 30, 2015, 08:25:18 PM
If the Mayo players threaten to withdraw en masse from the panel, the Mayo Co Board could call their bluff and disband the panel. When the Roscommon Senior team's discipline went a bit hollywood 12 or 13 years ago, the Co Board disbanded the panel. I'm sure it won't happen in Mayo, but one thing's for sure, the Mayo Co Board won't appreciate the player's putting a ''gun to their head''.
It was only a paper exercise anyway as panels are in effect disbanded when you exit the Championship.
If the players aren't prepared to work with a manager(s) then the manager(s) has/have no future there.
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 30, 2015, 08:25:18 PM
If the Mayo players threaten to withdraw en masse from the panel, the Mayo Co Board could call their bluff and disband the panel. When the Roscommon Senior team's discipline went a bit hollywood 12 or 13 years ago, the Co Board disbanded the panel. I'm sure it won't happen in Mayo, but one thing's for sure, the Mayo Co Board won't appreciate the player's putting a ''gun to their head''.
I'd say that the players have reached a conclusion that another year of Pat and Noel would be another year lost and therefore the threat is not empty. They'd probably be happier sitting at home watching the Sunday game than face the certainty of another disappointing campaign that would be fated to come up short.
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 10:36:28 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on September 30, 2015, 08:25:18 PM
If the Mayo players threaten to withdraw en masse from the panel, the Mayo Co Board could call their bluff and disband the panel. When the Roscommon Senior team's discipline went a bit hollywood 12 or 13 years ago, the Co Board disbanded the panel. I'm sure it won't happen in Mayo, but one thing's for sure, the Mayo Co Board won't appreciate the player's putting a ''gun to their head''.
I'd say that the players have reached a conclusion that another year of Pat and Noel would be another year lost and therefore the threat is not empty. They'd probably be happier sitting at home watching the Sunday game than face the certainty of another disappointing campaign that would be fated to come up short.
So the players are a few moves ahead and have thought this out? Next manager?
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
After Horan you needed a man with a plan. You picked the CB vice-chairman's brother. Hard to make the case that McStay wasn't Mayo's last best hope of winning an AI with this team.
In all honesty I have huge respect for the current Mayo team - easily the second best Connacht side in my lifetime - but I am very happy Mayo scuffed the choice last Autumn and let us get McStay, a man I rate very highly. If we give him time we'll be well placed.
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
I don't think James Horan was a stand out candidate before he became Mayo manager five years ago but he and his management are the reason why Mayo are top 3/4 side right now when under another less clued in manager they could be in the doldrums.
Result wise wasn't a whole alot different this year though behind the scenes the players must feel the standards are slipping and the management aren't as professional as they should be however how all of this couldn't be done behind closed doors is very poor by Mayo.
As was said before McStay wanted to be compensated for his Sunday game gig which was never going to fly with the huge debts the Mayo county board have.For me if McStay truly wanted the job he should have left out his comp. for the Sunday game and even then he may not have got the job but at least he would have got to the interview process.He may well turn out to be a very good manager but to say that if he got the Mayo job we would be all ireland champs is fairy tale stuff.
If/when H/C step down, what are the chances of James Horan making an immediate return? Is this what the players' move was really designed to achieve?
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
After Horan you needed a man with a plan. You picked the CB vice-chairman's brother. Hard to make the case that McStay wasn't Mayo's last best hope of winning an AI with this team.
In all honesty I have huge respect for the current Mayo team - easily the second best Connacht side in my lifetime - but I am very happy Mayo scuffed the choice last Autumn and let us get McStay, a man I rate very highly. If we give him time we'll be well placed.
I have to ask - what team do you consider the best? And what age are you (so I know what teams are within your lifetime)?
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
After Horan you needed a man with a plan. You picked the CB vice-chairman's brother. Hard to make the case that McStay wasn't Mayo's last best hope of winning an AI with this team.
In all honesty I have huge respect for the current Mayo team - easily the second best Connacht side in my lifetime - but I am very happy Mayo scuffed the choice last Autumn and let us get McStay, a man I rate very highly. If we give him time we'll be well placed.
Who picked him?
In a perverse way I'm kinda enjoying this!
There is no shock or surprise about the place by this development. A couple of high ranking officers pulled a stroke a year ago ( people seem to forget a member of the executive resigned because he disapproved of how things were going) and chickens have come home to roost. Zero sympathy for H/C because they were part of the conspiracy and had the ego to think they could do the job and be heroes. Now it looks like their ego will maintain them to draw out a damaging end game.
The chairman and secretary are trying to sing off the same hymn sheet, but haven't a note in their head between them ( sound bites about processes and bullshit), but they are out of their depth and drowning - beyond treading water.
The day is well gone when county board officers ( hang around long enough and you ll get a top job) have the power to appoint a manager. Many of the fells that do that are older, conservative and reactionary. Out of touch and time on their hands and in this case have a family member to look after. It's all bad.
To see Martin Carney rant like he did was sad. Alright there is a generation gap but he worked with kids all his life. I m sure he knows Pat well but that was cringe worthy.
Anyway, as I said, looking forward to see how this resolves itself. It ll shorten up the winter.
As a Mayo fan I'm delighted the players have done this. The alternative was to keep quiet, go travelling, work commitments, retire before their time. That was a real scenario. The ball is now in Mike's court and he has a big decision to make. He was the liaison officer as well on the management team and behaved all confused about turn of events. What did he say again 'I said we ve had the process to eliminate this happenin'
Christ Mike! you were the bloody process!!
WTF can he possibly be thinking now by talking to player representatives? I dunno but I would suspect that the players regarded him with deep suspicion. More likely riding shotgun for the management than having rapport for the players. Obviously a trouble shooter for an unwanted management imo. He's under unreal stress right now but did not do his credibility any good when interviewed last night. Did not make sense. Vincent was sent out to bat as well but it was tough listening. Sound man in wrong place at the wrong time.
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
After Horan you needed a man with a plan. You picked the CB vice-chairman's brother. Hard to make the case that McStay wasn't Mayo's last best hope of winning an AI with this team.
In all honesty I have huge respect for the current Mayo team - easily the second best Connacht side in my lifetime - but I am very happy Mayo scuffed the choice last Autumn and let us get McStay, a man I rate very highly. If we give him time we'll be well placed.
That's putting a bit of an unfair spin on it. Last Mayo, there were 2 candidates that many Mayo fans saw as potential managers: Connelly & McStay (Holmes was never really considered as a serious standalone candidate). Both had credentials to get the job - Former Mayo players & both a success at management (Connelly with Mayo underage & McStay at club level). Connelly would have been a serious candidate regardless of his connection to the county board.
Quote from: moysider on October 01, 2015, 12:18:52 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
After Horan you needed a man with a plan. You picked the CB vice-chairman's brother. Hard to make the case that McStay wasn't Mayo's last best hope of winning an AI with this team.
In all honesty I have huge respect for the current Mayo team - easily the second best Connacht side in my lifetime - but I am very happy Mayo scuffed the choice last Autumn and let us get McStay, a man I rate very highly. If we give him time we'll be well placed.
Who picked him?
In a perverse way I'm kinda enjoying this!
There is no shock or surprise about the place by this development. A couple of high ranking officers pulled a stroke a year ago ( people seem to forget a member of the executive resigned because he disapproved of how things were going) and chickens have come home to roost. Zero sympathy for H/C because they were part of the conspiracy and had the ego to think they could do the job and be heroes. Now it looks like their ego will maintain them to draw out a damaging end game.
The chairman and secretary are trying to sing off the same hymn sheet, but haven't a note in their head between them ( sound bites about processes and bullshit), but they are out of their depth and drowning - beyond treading water.
The day is well gone when county board officers ( hang around long enough and you ll get a top job) have the power to appoint a manager. Many of the fells that do that are older, conservative and reactionary. Out of touch and time on their hands and in this case have a family member to look after. It's all bad.
To see Martin Carney rant like he did was sad. Alright there is a generation gap but he worked with kids all his life. I m sure he knows Pat well but that was cringe worthy.
Anyway, as I said, looking forward to see how this resolves itself. It ll shorten up the winter.
As a Mayo fan I'm delighted the players have done this. The alternative was to keep quiet, go travelling, work commitments, retire before their time. That was a real scenario. The ball is now in Mike's court and he has a big decision to make. He was the liaison officer as well on the management team and behaved all confused about turn of events. What did he say again 'I said we ve had the process to eliminate this happenin'
Christ Mike! you were the bloody process!!
WTF can he possibly be thinking now by talking to player representatives? I dunno but I would suspect that the players regarded him with deep suspicion. More likely riding shotgun for the management than having rapport for the players. Obviously a trouble shooter for an unwanted management imo. He's under unreal stress right now but did not do his credibility any good when interviewed last night. Did not make sense. Vincent was sent out to bat as well but it was tough listening. Sound man in wrong place at the wrong time.
Or maybe there was an alternative to actually approach the management throughout the year with their concerns, and try to get them addressed. As far as I can make out, there was nothing like that done at all. I don't think this is as black & white as you make it out to be.
But like you, I'm enjoying the prospect of sitting back and watching how it all works out!
Quote from: mckieran on October 01, 2015, 12:27:30 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 01, 2015, 12:18:52 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
After Horan you needed a man with a plan. You picked the CB vice-chairman's brother. Hard to make the case that McStay wasn't Mayo's last best hope of winning an AI with this team.
In all honesty I have huge respect for the current Mayo team - easily the second best Connacht side in my lifetime - but I am very happy Mayo scuffed the choice last Autumn and let us get McStay, a man I rate very highly. If we give him time we'll be well placed.
Who picked him?
In a perverse way I'm kinda enjoying this!
There is no shock or surprise about the place by this development. A couple of high ranking officers pulled a stroke a year ago ( people seem to forget a member of the executive resigned because he disapproved of how things were going) and chickens have come home to roost. Zero sympathy for H/C because they were part of the conspiracy and had the ego to think they could do the job and be heroes. Now it looks like their ego will maintain them to draw out a damaging end game.
The chairman and secretary are trying to sing off the same hymn sheet, but haven't a note in their head between them ( sound bites about processes and bullshit), but they are out of their depth and drowning - beyond treading water.
The day is well gone when county board officers ( hang around long enough and you ll get a top job) have the power to appoint a manager. Many of the fells that do that are older, conservative and reactionary. Out of touch and time on their hands and in this case have a family member to look after. It's all bad.
To see Martin Carney rant like he did was sad. Alright there is a generation gap but he worked with kids all his life. I m sure he knows Pat well but that was cringe worthy.
Anyway, as I said, looking forward to see how this resolves itself. It ll shorten up the winter.
As a Mayo fan I'm delighted the players have done this. The alternative was to keep quiet, go travelling, work commitments, retire before their time. That was a real scenario. The ball is now in Mike's court and he has a big decision to make. He was the liaison officer as well on the management team and behaved all confused about turn of events. What did he say again 'I said we ve had the process to eliminate this happenin'
Christ Mike! you were the bloody process!!
WTF can he possibly be thinking now by talking to player representatives? I dunno but I would suspect that the players regarded him with deep suspicion. More likely riding shotgun for the management than having rapport for the players. Obviously a trouble shooter for an unwanted management imo. He's under unreal stress right now but did not do his credibility any good when interviewed last night. Did not make sense. Vincent was sent out to bat as well but it was tough listening. Sound man in wrong place at the wrong time.
Or maybe there was an alternative to actually approach the management throughout the year with their concerns, and try to get them addressed. As far as I can make out, there was nothing like that done at all. I don't think this is as black & white as you make it out to be.
But like you, I'm enjoying the prospect of sitting back and watching how it all works out!
When I initially saw that the chairman was a liaison officer between management and players it set the alarm bells ringing. You ve got a joint ' experienced ' management with a panel of 40 players in pre season and they need a go between?
Nonsense. They pair didn't have it. Mightn t have won the AI but likes of Micko or Paudi in their pomp wouldn t need anybody watching teeir back and would have commanded the dressing room - by force of their personality and conviction. They would have been sympathetic and approachable as well while H/C were not and took a medieval approach.
Three more of the 7 players who voted to keep H/C, have been named by media in Mayo. They're 'believed' to be Tom Parsons, Andy Moran and Mark Ronaldson.
Quote from: maigheo on October 01, 2015, 12:01:07 AM
As was said before McStay wanted to be compensated for his Sunday game gig which was never going to fly with the huge debts the Mayo county board have.For me if McStay truly wanted the job he should have left out his comp. for the Sunday game and even then he may not have got the job but at least he would have got to the interview process.He may well turn out to be a very good manager but to say that if he got the Mayo job we would be all ireland champs is fairy tale stuff.
It was said indeed but who said it?
There are or were lots of rumours flying around then and most were started by Paddy. For instance, didn't he say that what McStay was looking for was unbelievable and left it at that? He was the one who said the players didn't want McHale but, since the players didn't have a say in the appointment process, what they may or may not have thought of McHale didn't come into the reckoning.
Furthermore, McStay never said, in public anyway, that he wanted compensation if he had to give up his work with RTE We're going by the spin from the board for this.
Now that McStay has gone over to the dark side, he must have looked for the same arrangements with the
sheep Roscommon board. They don't appear to have the same financial resources as Mayo and yet they had no issues with his proposals when he was interviewed.
I think McStay did the right thing and moved on as there was nothing to be gained by getting into a dogfight with Paddy or Mike or any of that compromised crew.
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Glad to hear someone else say what seems obvious to me. The more time goes on, the more it feels like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Kevin McStay is the most sought-after manager in Ireland.
On the basis of what? One club All-Ireland with a team that was on the brink of it before?
I remember the first time I heard talk of McStay as an IC manager, I thought it was a bit absurd. His reputation has grown and grown while he's done nothing. The same syndrome that saw Andy Reid grow into some kind of soccer messiah in the minds of Irish fans a few years back.
My prediction is that his reputation will diminish fairly quickly once he actually has to manage a team and deal with the knee-jerk reaction to every result.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 01, 2015, 12:58:46 AM
Three more of the 7 players who voted to keep H/C, have been named by media in Mayo. They're 'believed' to be Tom Parsons, Andy Moran and Mark Ronaldson.
Can you tell us who are the media in Mayo who named these three players, and where they named them?
No offence now Shrew, but there's a fierce 'smell of shite' off those three Musketeers.
Reading Eugene McGees colum in the sindo about the Mayo situation nearly made me weep.How can some one so misinformed have a job writing for a main newspaper is beyond me.Anybody with half a brain can see that the Players dissatisfaction is with the overall preparation of the team during the year and not soley the defeat to Dublin.I also see that the Telegraph have released 3 more names of players who they think voted no to the no confidence vote of H and C.This is completely wrong and is putting undue pressure on amateur sportsmen and of course they have not a quote to back up there claims
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on October 01, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Glad to hear someone else say what seems obvious to me. The more time goes on, the more it feels like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Kevin McStay is the most sought-after manager in Ireland.
On the basis of what? One club All-Ireland with a team that was on the brink of it before?
I remember the first time I heard talk of McStay as an IC manager, I thought it was a bit absurd. His reputation has grown and grown while he's done nothing. The same syndrome that saw Andy Reid grow into some kind of soccer messiah in the minds of Irish fans a few years back.
My prediction is that his reputation will diminish fairly quickly once he actually has to manage a team and deal with the knee-jerk reaction to every result.
Big-Team-Didn't-Get-Him-So-He's-Overated Syndrome.
Cute.
+1.
Quote from: Syferus on October 01, 2015, 04:39:15 AM
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on October 01, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Glad to hear someone else say what seems obvious to me. The more time goes on, the more it feels like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Kevin McStay is the most sought-after manager in Ireland.
On the basis of what? One club All-Ireland with a team that was on the brink of it before?
I remember the first time I heard talk of McStay as an IC manager, I thought it was a bit absurd. His reputation has grown and grown while he's done nothing. The same syndrome that saw Andy Reid grow into some kind of soccer messiah in the minds of Irish fans a few years back.
My prediction is that his reputation will diminish fairly quickly once he actually has to manage a team and deal with the knee-jerk reaction to every result.
Big-Team-Didn't-Get-Him-So-He's-Overated Syndrome.
Cute.
+1.
Instead of writing off my post by making up something I don't think, could you maybe explain why you disagree?
Why is McStay so highly rated by so many? Is it the club All-Ireland or is there more to it?
IolarCoisCuain, the media source in Mayo that named those 3 players is 'The Connacht Telegraph'. They did it online yesterday evening.. Someone told me, i had a look, and there were the 3 names.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 01, 2015, 06:48:06 AM
IolarCoisCuain, the media source in Mayo that named those 3 players is 'The Connacht Telegraph'. They did it online yesterday evening.. Someone told me, i had a look, and there were the 3 names.
That journalists is completely agenda driven. Just read back through some of his articles if you can find them. He is being fed all this info obviously, and the accuracy and motives behind it would have to be questioned.
Quote from: Tubberman on October 01, 2015, 07:19:42 AM
That journalists is completely agenda driven. Just read back through some of his articles if you can find them. He is being fed all this info obviously, and the accuracy and motives behind it would have to be questioned.
100% correct, that rag of a paper was previously caught out peddling lies during Horan's time. The piece in question is based on well-founded insider information which was "mentioned" in the Irish Daily Mail ::)
Quote from: maigheo on October 01, 2015, 03:26:17 AM
Reading Eugene McGees colum in the sindo about the Mayo situation nearly made me weep.How can some one so misinformed have a job writing for a main newspaper is beyond me.Anybody with half a brain can see that the Players dissatisfaction is with the overall preparation of the team during the year and not soley the defeat to Dublin.I also see that the Telegraph have released 3 more names of players who they think voted no to the no confidence vote of H and C.This is completely wrong and is putting undue pressure on amateur sportsmen and of course they have not a quote to back up there claims
I think I've identified the two main sources of your problem here maigheo ;D
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 08:50:33 AM
Quote from: maigheo on October 01, 2015, 03:26:17 AM
Reading Eugene McGees colum in the sindo about the Mayo situation nearly made me weep.How can some one so misinformed have a job writing for a main newspaper is beyond me.Anybody with half a brain can see that the Players dissatisfaction is with the overall preparation of the team during the year and not soley the defeat to Dublin.I also see that the Telegraph have released 3 more names of players who they think voted no to the no confidence vote of H and C.This is completely wrong and is putting undue pressure on amateur sportsmen and of course they have not a quote to back up there claims
I think I've identified the two main sources of your problem here maigheo ;D
McGee, Jez you don't go reading McGee? He probably thinks that McDonald and Mortimer as still in the Mayo squad! :P
Quote from: Syferus on October 01, 2015, 04:39:15 AM
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on October 01, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Glad to hear someone else say what seems obvious to me. The more time goes on, the more it feels like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Kevin McStay is the most sought-after manager in Ireland.
On the basis of what? One club All-Ireland with a team that was on the brink of it before?
I remember the first time I heard talk of McStay as an IC manager, I thought it was a bit absurd. His reputation has grown and grown while he's done nothing. The same syndrome that saw Andy Reid grow into some kind of soccer messiah in the minds of Irish fans a few years back.
My prediction is that his reputation will diminish fairly quickly once he actually has to manage a team and deal with the knee-jerk reaction to every result.
Big-Team-Didn't-Get-Him-So-He's-Overated Syndrome.
Cute.
+1.
Now, now Syf, you're being a bit catty here. ;D ;D
Talk about making yourself a hostage to fortune.
For a county that shafts managers more often than Fine Gael overthrows leaders, you'd be the last one to lecture us about anything.
John Maughan, Tonmmy Carr, Fergie, John Evans all got the bum's rush so why are you feeling cocky about Kevin McStay? (Did I forget anyone here ? Since I don't bother me bum about what goes on in your God-forsaken county, I might have left one or two out.)
His chances of being in the job a year from now are just about the same as Lar being elected Pope before he gets his P45.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 01, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 01, 2015, 04:39:15 AM
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on October 01, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Glad to hear someone else say what seems obvious to me. The more time goes on, the more it feels like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Kevin McStay is the most sought-after manager in Ireland.
On the basis of what? One club All-Ireland with a team that was on the brink of it before?
I remember the first time I heard talk of McStay as an IC manager, I thought it was a bit absurd. His reputation has grown and grown while he's done nothing. The same syndrome that saw Andy Reid grow into some kind of soccer messiah in the minds of Irish fans a few years back.
My prediction is that his reputation will diminish fairly quickly once he actually has to manage a team and deal with the knee-jerk reaction to every result.
Big-Team-Didn't-Get-Him-So-He's-Overated Syndrome.
Cute.
+1.
Now, now Syf, you're being a bit catty here. ;D ;D
Talk about making yourself a hostage to fortune.
For a county that shafts managers more often than Fine Gael overthrows leaders, you'd be the last one to lecture us about anything.
John Maughan, Tonmmy Carr, Fergie, John Evans all got the bum's rush so why are you feeling cocky about Kevin McStay? (Did I forget anyone here ? Since I don't bother me bum about what goes on in your God-forsaken county, I might have left one or two out.)
His chances of being in the job a year from now are just about the same as Lar being elected Pope before he gets his P45.
That's a terrible comparison! Fine Gael haven't overthrown a leader in at least 13 years! (they might have tried once or twice since then, but your county man is leader since 2002!) ;) ;)
And for the record Fergie in 2011 stepped down after 3 years ( his mother just died; he had expressed reservations after the CF and Tyrone game as well plus one other reason) while Evans didn't let his name go forward following the end of his 3 year term once he discovered he wouldn't be automatically re appointed.
Tan and Tommy both left 8 months after they should have been shaken hands with and RAN TO FCUK !! >:( >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 01, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 01, 2015, 04:39:15 AM
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on October 01, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Glad to hear someone else say what seems obvious to me. The more time goes on, the more it feels like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Kevin McStay is the most sought-after manager in Ireland.
On the basis of what? One club All-Ireland with a team that was on the brink of it before?
I remember the first time I heard talk of McStay as an IC manager, I thought it was a bit absurd. His reputation has grown and grown while he's done nothing. The same syndrome that saw Andy Reid grow into some kind of soccer messiah in the minds of Irish fans a few years back.
My prediction is that his reputation will diminish fairly quickly once he actually has to manage a team and deal with the knee-jerk reaction to every result.
Big-Team-Didn't-Get-Him-So-He's-Overated Syndrome.
Cute.
+1.
Now, now Syf, you're being a bit catty here. ;D ;D
Talk about making yourself a hostage to fortune.
For a county that shafts managers more often than Fine Gael overthrows leaders, you'd be the last one to lecture us about anything.
John Maughan, Tonmmy Carr, Fergie, John Evans all got the bum's rush so why are you feeling cocky about Kevin McStay? (Did I forget anyone here ? Since I don't bother me bum about what goes on in your God-forsaken county, I might have left one or two out.)
His chances of being in the job a year from now are just about the same as Lar being elected Pope before he gets his P45.
No one wanted FOD to go in 2011. He had troubles with the way the CB were running things but the last man of the old regime is stepping down in December, which facilitated this appointment.
Whatever way you look at it Mayo have brought a shit storm on top of themselves over the last 12 months. That's what you should be worried about Lar.
What i find fascinating is the two faced attitude by some, but not all , of the Mayo posters over Kevin Mc Stay.. After the selection shambles in Mayo 12 months ago, we heard how Mc Stay was the people's choice and should have got the job. Now, all of a sudden, he is written off and his managerial credentials called into question by many Mayo posters, not just on here, but on other forums where Mayoites are to be found.. No doubt, he's now persona non grata to some, because his decision to take the manager's job in Ros, means that he might never manage Mayo..... Yet, here on these same pages, we have some Mayo posters claiming that Stephen Rochford is the man to solve their problems....But why? What has he achieved that Mc Stay hasn't achieved?...Mc Stay is beyond Mayo's reach now, so he has to be discredited...Lar, if you want a list of hounded managers, try the following.... Brian Mc Donald, Jack O'Shea, Mickey Moran, John O'Mahony, Pat Holmes, Noel Connelly.
Quote from: westbound on October 01, 2015, 11:32:39 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 01, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 01, 2015, 04:39:15 AM
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on October 01, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Glad to hear someone else say what seems obvious to me. The more time goes on, the more it feels like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Kevin McStay is the most sought-after manager in Ireland.
On the basis of what? One club All-Ireland with a team that was on the brink of it before?
I remember the first time I heard talk of McStay as an IC manager, I thought it was a bit absurd. His reputation has grown and grown while he's done nothing. The same syndrome that saw Andy Reid grow into some kind of soccer messiah in the minds of Irish fans a few years back.
My prediction is that his reputation will diminish fairly quickly once he actually has to manage a team and deal with the knee-jerk reaction to every result.
Big-Team-Didn't-Get-Him-So-He's-Overated Syndrome.
Cute.
+1.
Now, now Syf, you're being a bit catty here. ;D ;D
Talk about making yourself a hostage to fortune.
For a county that shafts managers more often than Fine Gael overthrows leaders, you'd be the last one to lecture us about anything.
John Maughan, Tonmmy Carr, Fergie, John Evans all got the bum's rush so why are you feeling cocky about Kevin McStay? (Did I forget anyone here ? Since I don't bother me bum about what goes on in your God-forsaken county, I might have left one or two out.)
His chances of being in the job a year from now are just about the same as Lar being elected Pope before he gets his P45.
That's a terrible comparison! Fine Gael haven't overthrown a leader in at least 13 years! (they might have tried once or twice since then, but your county man is leader since 2002!) ;) ;)
I know but we're trying hard to get rid of the bustard and the sooner , the better. A bit like Laurel and Hardy, if you follow me.
I hope that pair can take the hint before we tar and feather the feckers.
PS who needs facts anyway when you're trying to shoo the likes of Syferus ans Rossfan off the premises.
Them bucks wouldn't know a fact if it jumped up and bit them on the nose. ;D
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 01, 2015, 12:52:09 PM
What i find fascinating is the two faced attitude by some, but not all , of the Mayo posters over Kevin Mc Stay.. After the selection shambles in Mayo 12 months ago, we heard how Mc Stay was the people's choice and should have got the job. Now, all of a sudden, he is written off and his managerial credentials called into question by many Mayo posters, not just on here, but on other forums where Mayoites are to be found.. No doubt, he's now persona non grata to some, because his decision to take the manager's job in Ros, means that he might never manage Mayo..... Yet, here on these same pages, we have some Mayo posters claiming that Stephen Rochford is the man to solve their problems....But why? What has he achieved that Mc Stay hasn't achieved?...Mc Stay is beyond Mayo's reach now, so he has to be discredited...Lar, if you want a list of hounded managers, try the following.... Brian Mc Donald, Jack O'Shea, Mickey Moran, John O'Mahony, Pat Holmes, Noel Connelly.
In case that's aimed at me, I'm not trying to discredit McStay - or at least I'm not taking credit off him that I gave him last year, because I never said he was the saviour last year. I couldn't decide which mgmt team was better or worse, although it looks like we may have our answer now :(
I'd like to see McStay do well because I think he's a good guy, and has the balls to leave the RTE studio and put his money where his mouth is. But I'm not convinced yet that he'll be a great success, and obviously I'd find it hard to wish success on the Rossies!
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 01, 2015, 12:52:09 PM
What i find fascinating is the two faced attitude by some, but not all , of the Mayo posters over Kevin Mc Stay.. After the selection shambles in Mayo 12 months ago, we heard how Mc Stay was the people's choice and should have got the job. Now, all of a sudden, he is written off and his managerial credentials called into question by many Mayo posters, not just on here, but on other forums where Mayoites are to be found.. No doubt, he's now persona non grata to some, because his decision to take the manager's job in Ros, means that he might never manage Mayo..... Yet, here on these same pages, we have some Mayo posters claiming that Stephen Rochford is the man to solve their problems....But why? What has he achieved that Mc Stay hasn't achieved?...Mc Stay is beyond Mayo's reach now, so he has to be discredited...Lar, if you want a list of hounded managers, try the following.... Brian Mc Donald, Jack O'Shea, Mickey Moran, John O'Mahony, Pat Holmes, Noel Connelly.
Oh yes please; tell you what, when you've run McStay and Lord Liam off the premises, we'll give you that effin' pair for nothing as long as you guarantee that you'll keep the hoors until Ros wins an All-Ireland-or for eternity, whichever is the longer..
Has Des Newton been erased from history or did I dream that bit?
No Tubberman, it wasn't aimed at you specifically.
Well done lads. We manage to divert attention onto the Rossies.
Quote from: moysider on October 01, 2015, 02:14:48 PM
Well done lads. We manage to divert attention onto the Rossies.
It was bound to happen.
Is this now officially declared as a Rossie thread??? :P
I think so.
We ll have to get Iolar to change it to.
How does Mayo Player Mutiny affect the future of Rossistan?
Quote from: moysider on October 01, 2015, 02:39:30 PM
I think so.
We ll have to get Iolar to change it to.
How does Mayo Player Mutiny affect the future of Rossistan?
Pretty sure the answer to every question in this thread is Evan Regan, Moy.
Quote from: Syferus on October 01, 2015, 12:15:35 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 01, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 01, 2015, 04:39:15 AM
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on October 01, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Glad to hear someone else say what seems obvious to me. The more time goes on, the more it feels like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Kevin McStay is the most sought-after manager in Ireland.
On the basis of what? One club All-Ireland with a team that was on the brink of it before?
I remember the first time I heard talk of McStay as an IC manager, I thought it was a bit absurd. His reputation has grown and grown while he's done nothing. The same syndrome that saw Andy Reid grow into some kind of soccer messiah in the minds of Irish fans a few years back.
My prediction is that his reputation will diminish fairly quickly once he actually has to manage a team and deal with the knee-jerk reaction to every result.
Big-Team-Didn't-Get-Him-So-He's-Overated Syndrome.
Cute.
+1.
Now, now Syf, you're being a bit catty here. ;D ;D
Talk about making yourself a hostage to fortune.
For a county that shafts managers more often than Fine Gael overthrows leaders, you'd be the last one to lecture us about anything.
John Maughan, Tonmmy Carr, Fergie, John Evans all got the bum's rush so why are you feeling cocky about Kevin McStay? (Did I forget anyone here ? Since I don't bother me bum about what goes on in your God-forsaken county, I might have left one or two out.)
His chances of being in the job a year from now are just about the same as Lar being elected Pope before he gets his P45.
No one wanted FOD to go in 2011. He had troubles with the way the CB were running things but the last man of the old regime is stepping down in December, which facilitated this appointment.
Whatever way you look at it Mayo have brought a shit storm on top of themselves over the last 12 months. That's what you should be worried about Lar.
That's not totally true there was a small number in the minority alright that wanted rid of fergal. His league form was terrible and he never beat any team worth mentioning in championship. The same people still have our doubts myself included.
Quote from: Shannoncider on October 01, 2015, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 01, 2015, 12:15:35 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 01, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 01, 2015, 04:39:15 AM
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on October 01, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
Glad to hear someone else say what seems obvious to me. The more time goes on, the more it feels like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Kevin McStay is the most sought-after manager in Ireland.
On the basis of what? One club All-Ireland with a team that was on the brink of it before?
I remember the first time I heard talk of McStay as an IC manager, I thought it was a bit absurd. His reputation has grown and grown while he's done nothing. The same syndrome that saw Andy Reid grow into some kind of soccer messiah in the minds of Irish fans a few years back.
My prediction is that his reputation will diminish fairly quickly once he actually has to manage a team and deal with the knee-jerk reaction to every result.
Big-Team-Didn't-Get-Him-So-He's-Overated Syndrome.
Cute.
+1.
Now, now Syf, you're being a bit catty here. ;D ;D
Talk about making yourself a hostage to fortune.
For a county that shafts managers more often than Fine Gael overthrows leaders, you'd be the last one to lecture us about anything.
John Maughan, Tonmmy Carr, Fergie, John Evans all got the bum's rush so why are you feeling cocky about Kevin McStay? (Did I forget anyone here ? Since I don't bother me bum about what goes on in your God-forsaken county, I might have left one or two out.)
His chances of being in the job a year from now are just about the same as Lar being elected Pope before he gets his P45.
No one wanted FOD to go in 2011. He had troubles with the way the CB were running things but the last man of the old regime is stepping down in December, which facilitated this appointment.
Whatever way you look at it Mayo have brought a shit storm on top of themselves over the last 12 months. That's what you should be worried about Lar.
That's not totally true there was a small number in the minority alright that wanted rid of fergal. His league form was terrible and he never beat any team worth mentioning in championship. The same people still have our doubts myself included.
You can't please everyone. And this team of note shute - plenty had Sligo down as a team of note after beating Mayo and Galway. FOD had us neck and neck in development with the Mayo the next year, a team that went on to win 5 in a row. Des had us being hammered at home to a brutal Galway side.
Clogher/Crossbar has turned up here now I see ::)
Let's stick to the Subject - the Rhus are having a Civil War.
Long may it continue till John O'M is free to take over and return them to 2010
Or till this thread hits the 200 page mark
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 03:52:28 PM
Clogher/Crossbar has turned up here now I see ::)
Let's stick to the Subject - the Rhus are having a Civil War.
Long may it continue till John O'M is free to take over and return them to 2010
Or till this thread hits the 200 page mark
With you and the other rosquitoes buzzing around the place, we should have the 200 before the weekend.
so when in all this mess will the players take responsibility, the manager cant go out and kick the ball over the bar for them, they didn't make A Moran make a mess of a goal chance in the semi or force O`Connor to go short on a 30m free when a point was enough, or the opposition cornerback get the better of your best man 7 inches taller than him and score 1-02 into the process, they lost to a very good Dublin team and i don't think and other Mayo man in charge would made a slightest difference to the result. Mayo need 2 scoring forwards, A change in management will not alter that fact!
Excellent post Wildweasel and spot on. But as i said in an earlier post, the players must never be blamed, because the Mayo supporters see them as ''little Gods'' who can do no wrong. That's why it's always management, referees and the Co Board who must take the blame.
I blame McStay. If he had used his head and not been so rash in his decision making he would have got a handy job.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 01, 2015, 08:54:04 PM
so when in all this mess will the players take responsibility, the manager cant go out and kick the ball over the bar for them, they didn't make A Moran make a mess of a goal chance in the semi or force O`Connor to go short on a 30m free when a point was enough, or the opposition cornerback get the better of your best man 7 inches taller than him and score 1-02 into the process, they lost to a very good Dublin team and i don't think and other Mayo man in charge would made a slightest difference to the result. Mayo need 2 scoring forwards, A change in management will not alter that fact!
You seem to think the players voted no confidence in the management on account of bad results i.e. the Dublin Result. That's not the case, it's to do with team preparations throughout the year.
As such, the majority of your post is irrelevant.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 01, 2015, 09:44:26 PM
Excellent post Wildweasel and spot on. But as i said in an earlier post, the players must never be blamed, because the Mayo supporters see them as ''little Gods'' who can do no wrong. That's why it's always management, referees and the Co Board who must take the blame.
Who was to blame for Roscommons implosion in the Championship this year? The players? The Manager? Sligo? Fermanagh? Cormac Reilly? Would you have held onto Evans? Would you be happy to see Holmes and Connelly take over from Evans?
I'm getting worried now. Players only in the meeting for 10 mins. Not looking good. :(
Rte reporting 25 players turned up for tonight's meeting with co board. They left again after around 10 mins.
The Holy Trinity of Mick O`Dwyer, Sean boylan and Mickey harte couldn't get a all-ireland out of this team unless they would uncover 2 inside scoring forwards thats the reality Mayo supporters or current players cant accept so blame everybody else.,`
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 01, 2015, 09:59:55 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 01, 2015, 09:44:26 PM
Excellent post Wildweasel and spot on. But as i said in an earlier post, the players must never be blamed, because the Mayo supporters see them as ''little Gods'' who can do no wrong. That's why it's always management, referees and the Co Board who must take the blame.
Who was to blame for Roscommons implosion in the Championship this year? The players? The Manager? Sligo? Fermanagh? Cormac Reilly? Would you have held onto Evans? Would you be happy to see Holmes and Connelly take over from Evans?
In fairness to Shrewdness whose opinion I respect, the Mayo players were the ones who shot the terrible wides in the third quarter of the drawn game. In the replay it was SOS who stupidly got himself a black card, not H+C, so if anyone is so blind that cannot see etc. However, the pair have lost the dressing room so there's no real point in them staying on is there?
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 01, 2015, 10:01:53 PM
I'm getting worried now. Players only in the meeting for 10 mins. Not looking good. :(
Jesus H Christ on a unicycle. TEN minutes! :( What processes and mechanisms could they have possibly gone through in those 10 minutes?
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 01, 2015, 09:44:26 PM
Excellent post Wildweasel and spot on. But as i said in an earlier post, the players must never be blamed, because the Mayo supporters see them as ''little Gods'' who can do no wrong. That's why it's always management, referees and the Co Board who must take the blame.
Not true Shrewdness. Some Mayo players getting plenty of stick about the place.
The management were responsible for at least 2 dodgy selections for AISF replay. Tactics and game management in general was questionable to say the least.
Of course I am biased I admit. Not that I was convinced that McStay would improve Horan, I didn t want Holmes back. His first term was a dismal failure and I didn t see how much about him had changed. I didn t rate Connelly either. I don t think he is a coach. He was a leader as a player and motivation is probably his forte but you need more than blood and guts where they are operating. Anyway these players had that. Smart selection and tactics and attention to detail in game management is what we needed.
We ll soon find out if we missed a trick with McStay. He will do well to be successful in the sense that to be a success he needs to win a Connacht. But the way he goes about his task will reveal a lot.
I lay most of the blame for this mess firmly at the feet of current chairman and chairman emeritus himself. They used their positions and abused their authority to cobble together a management in a manner that reeked of sharp practice. There may have been other conspirators but I get the impression other officers had to tow the line.
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22848:large-delegation-of-mayo-squad-attend-crisis-meeting&catid=14&Itemid=100008
Strong showing from the players. Any divide and conquer strategy is well and truly fucked
The sooner this is resolved, the better; and there's really only one resolution possible.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 01, 2015, 10:06:40 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 01, 2015, 10:01:53 PM
I'm getting worried now. Players only in the meeting for 10 mins. Not looking good. :(
Jesus H Christ on a unicycle. TEN minutes! :( What processes and mechanisms could they have possibly gone through in those 10 minutes?
Smart move by players to turn up in such numbers. I suspect that Mike was going to play hard-ball with Keith and Cillian and try and to bully/appease them into accepting a few cosmetic tweaks so that Pateen and Nole could continue. This was a show of strength to show that there was going to be no messing about. There's been too much bullshit already.
Looks like this has put the matter to bed. It s bottle of brandy and pistol time.
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 01, 2015, 10:16:25 PM
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22848:large-delegation-of-mayo-squad-attend-crisis-meeting&catid=14&Itemid=100008
From that report they seemed to just state their case speaking with Board officials for approximately ten minutes before leaving, and they had no comment to make when exiting.
A case of this is what we want, have a look at it! We're not hanging about for the circus inside and we're not dealing the circus outside either.
Quote from: moysider on October 01, 2015, 10:25:07 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 01, 2015, 10:06:40 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 01, 2015, 10:01:53 PM
I'm getting worried now. Players only in the meeting for 10 mins. Not looking good. :(
Jesus H Christ on a unicycle. TEN minutes! :( What processes and mechanisms could they have possibly gone through in those 10 minutes?
Smart move by players to turn up in such numbers. I suspect that Mike was going to play hard-ball with Keith and Cillian and try and to bully/appease them into accepting a few cosmetic tweaks so that Pateen and Nole could continue. This was a show of strength to show that there was going to be no messing about. There's been too much bullshit already.
Looks like this has put the matter to bed. It s bottle of brandy and pistol time.
Don't agree brandy's too good for them, poteen maybe.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 01, 2015, 10:26:34 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 01, 2015, 10:16:25 PM
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22848:large-delegation-of-mayo-squad-attend-crisis-meeting&catid=14&Itemid=100008
From that report they seemed to just state their case speaking with Board officials for approximately ten minutes before leaving, and they had no comment to make when exiting.
A case of this is what we want, have a look at it! We're not hanging about for the circus inside and we're not dealing the circus outside either.
Geez, I'd hope they had a case that was more than 10 minutes!
To me, it sounds like the county board said the management weren't resigning and the players walked. That would take about 10 minutes!
Did they ask for 2 out of town transfers to bring some scoring power to this outfit??
Quote from: moysider on October 01, 2015, 10:25:07 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 01, 2015, 10:06:40 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 01, 2015, 10:01:53 PM
I'm getting worried now. Players only in the meeting for 10 mins. Not looking good. :(
Jesus H Christ on a unicycle. TEN minutes! :( What processes and mechanisms could they have possibly gone through in those 10 minutes?
Smart move by players to turn up in such numbers. I suspect that Mike was going to play hard-ball with Keith and Cillian and try and to bully/appease them into accepting a few cosmetic tweaks so that Pateen and Nole could continue. This was a show of strength to show that there was going to be no messing about. There's been too much bullshit already.
Looks like this has put the matter to bed. It s bottle of brandy and pistol time.
Poor Henry's attempt to split the players didn't work! Wonder was he there, or earwigging at the window?
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/1001/731800-mayo-meeting/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Quote from: mckieran on October 01, 2015, 10:29:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 01, 2015, 10:26:34 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 01, 2015, 10:16:25 PM
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22848:large-delegation-of-mayo-squad-attend-crisis-meeting&catid=14&Itemid=100008
From that report they seemed to just state their case speaking with Board officials for approximately ten minutes before leaving, and they had no comment to make when exiting.
A case of this is what we want, have a look at it! We're not hanging about for the circus inside and we're not dealing the circus outside either.
Geez, I'd hope they had a case that was more than 10 minutes!
To me, it sounds like the county board said the management weren't resigning and the players walked. That would take about 10 minutes!
I took an egg and rasher sandwich offa a junior footballer earlier this evening. He's coming back from a cruciate and is carrying a bit of a pardóg. I told him to shape up cause his county will probably come calling in the coming months.
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 09:56:39 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 01, 2015, 08:54:04 PM
so when in all this mess will the players take responsibility, the manager cant go out and kick the ball over the bar for them, they didn't make A Moran make a mess of a goal chance in the semi or force O`Connor to go short on a 30m free when a point was enough, or the opposition cornerback get the better of your best man 7 inches taller than him and score 1-02 into the process, they lost to a very good Dublin team and i don't think and other Mayo man in charge would made a slightest difference to the result. Mayo need 2 scoring forwards, A change in management will not alter that fact!
You seem to think the players voted no confidence in the management on account of bad results i.e. the Dublin Result. That's not the case, it's to do with team preparations throughout the year.
As such, the majority of your post is irrelevant.
Yes and the rest is nonsense. ;D
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 01, 2015, 10:29:51 PM
Did they ask for 2 out of town transfers to bring some scoring power to this outfit??
Sadly they are few and far between.
Bernard Brogan is now in his 30's. Alan probably retire.
Gooch has gone back and will be @33 next championship. James O Donoghue had to be subbed in AI final.
That leaves Conor McManus and Michael Murphy. I wish but I doubt they would be up for sale. Outside those 2 there is nobody that would be a game changer.
Quote from: moysider on October 01, 2015, 11:14:24 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 01, 2015, 10:29:51 PM
Did they ask for 2 out of town transfers to bring some scoring power to this outfit??
Sadly they are few and far between.
Bernard Brogan is now in his 30's. Alan probably retire.
Gooch has gone back and will be @33 next championship. James O Donoghue had to be subbed in AI final.
That leaves Conor McManus and Michael Murphy. I wish but I doubt they would be up for sale. Outside those 2 there is nobody that would be a game changer.
He also scored 3 points from play in that final. He would be Mayos best forward if he played for them.
There are a hell of a lot of forwards out there that would improve on Jason Doherty & Kevin McLoughlin (based on this years performances)
Harney, Murtaghs, Smiths.......
No ye can't t have them. ;D
Anyway ye're crack can only have one outcome - management out.
The Mayo News understands that they spoke with Board officials for approximately ten minutes before leaving, and they had no comment to make when exiting.
Seems like they're not messing around, in, deliver message, out
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 11:36:31 PM
Harney, Murtaghs, Smiths.......
No ye can't t have them. ;D
Anyway ye're crack can only have one outcome - management out.
Aye, those forwards shot the lights out against Fermanagh and Sligo...whoops ;)
If the 5 of them had all been fit and those who were had been played for the full 70 mins we'd likely have won those 2 games despite our defensive and management frailties.
Still ye're giving great entertainment these days :D
Keep it up.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 02, 2015, 12:01:27 AM
If the 5 of them had all been fit and those who were had been played for the full 70 mins we'd likely have won those 2 games despite our defensive and management frailties.
Still ye're giving great entertainment these days :D
Keep it up.
Not a patch on the entertainment ye provided us with this summer. ;)
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 01, 2015, 11:50:01 PM
The Mayo News understands that they spoke with Board officials for approximately ten minutes before leaving, and they had no comment to make when exiting.
Seems like they're not messing around, in, deliver message, out
Seems to me they're a bit new to this having a meeting craic. Players seem to be exasperating the situation with their own behavior.
Quote from: mckieran on October 01, 2015, 11:26:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 01, 2015, 11:14:24 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 01, 2015, 10:29:51 PM
Did they ask for 2 out of town transfers to bring some scoring power to this outfit??
Sadly they are few and far between.
Bernard Brogan is now in his 30's. Alan probably retire.
Gooch has gone back and will be @33 next championship. James O Donoghue had to be subbed in AI final.
That leaves Conor McManus and Michael Murphy. I wish but I doubt they would be up for sale. Outside those 2 there is nobody that would be a game changer.
He also scored 3 points from play in that final. He would be Mayos best forward if he played for them.
There are a hell of a lot of forwards out there that would improve on Jason Doherty & Kevin McLoughlin (based on this years performances)
Would he fcuk! Yeah he did score 3 points from play but most of the time looked like he didn t fancy it at all. Why do you think he was taken off? Fitzmaurice not a man to have a brain fart. He didn't want to know.
And there are damn all forwards that would improve on Jason Doherty and Kevin McLoughlin in the roles they play (even though I accept that they were not at their best this year). Remember Mayo players are judged by how they play in CP in semis and finals and not by how they play v Galway, Sligo and QF. There are fkcu all forwards apart from McManus and Murphy that can make a difference on their own when the squeeze comes on. And don't start giving me Jamie Clarke or McCorry because they get bullied off the face of the earth in lesser games. O' Neill and Hurley in Cork were no great shakes either and wilted before the business end. They are inside forwards anyway and no comparison for Doc and McLoughlin.
Anyway if you're one of those people that think that 10 and 12 should be scoring forwards then there is no point even indulging you.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Perhaps, seeing as nobody is saying anything we don't know. Horan coming back wouldn't be ths answer. His tactical flaws were there for all to see. Second comings don't usually work either.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2015, 12:33:55 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Perhaps, seeing as nobody is saying anything we don't know. Horan coming back wouldn't be ths answer. His tactical flaws were there for all to see. Second comings don't usually work either.
Agree. He had 2 AIs in the palm of his hand and............
Got so much right it's a shame. But blind spots undid him. A big blind spot was Tom Parsons. Already an established player when he took over but let him go. I know he wont get an All Star (and played replay with broken thumb) but Parsons and Fenton were the quality midfielders out there this year. Horan must have been looking at that and thinking 'what the fcuk was I thinking'?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 02, 2015, 12:01:27 AM
If the 5 of them had all been fit and those who were had been played for the full 70 mins we'd likely have won those 2 games despite our defensive and management frailties.
Still ye're giving great entertainment these days :D
Keep it up.
Ah, if only me auntie....
Keep dreamin'
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2015, 12:45:26 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2015, 12:33:55 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Perhaps, seeing as nobody is saying anything we don't know. Horan coming back wouldn't be ths answer. His tactical flaws were there for all to see. Second comings don't usually work either.
Agree. He had 2 AIs in the palm of his hand and............
Got so much right it's a shame. But blind spots undid him. A big blind spot was Tom Parsons. Already an established player when he took over but let him go. I know he wont get an All Star (and played replay with broken thumb) but Parsons and Fenton were the quality midfielders out there this year. Horan must have been looking at that and thinking 'what the fcuk was I thinking'?
He is probably thinking Barry Moran 2012 Aidan O Shea 2013 were more impressive in midfield for Mayo than Parsons was this year. At no stage watching the 2012,2013 All Ireland finals did I think Mayo would win or in your own words had the Als in the palm of your hands, if anything Mayo peaked before those finals and no manager could reverse that.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 11:36:31 PM
Harney, Murtaghs, Smiths.......
No ye can't t have them. ;D
Anyway ye're crack can only have one outcome - management out.
Seriously though, don t want them. Footballers are judged in September.
Lookit Rossfan, ye pride yerselves on these forwards but a bit of perspective. You had a team that dominated Connacht and got to one AI final 77-80 and not one of those forwards were deemed good enough to get an All-Star. Tony Mac got one years later at the finish up of his career. A bit like Bette Davis carted out for a special Oscar before she died. Lads like the 2 McManuses, Finneran and Jigger could not get Ros over the hump. They were judged at the highest level. Are you comparing the Harneys etc at that level even before they earn an opportunity to compete in August/September. Good luck with them.
I realise that Mayo are scoffed at. Poor leaky defence. No mobility in midfield. Need at least six new forwards ::)
What the f**k is everybody else doing if we re functioning in late Summer at all?
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 02, 2015, 01:19:50 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2015, 12:45:26 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2015, 12:33:55 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Perhaps, seeing as nobody is saying anything we don't know. Horan coming back wouldn't be ths answer. His tactical flaws were there for all to see. Second comings don't usually work either.
Agree. He had 2 AIs in the palm of his hand and............
Got so much right it's a shame. But blind spots undid him. A big blind spot was Tom Parsons. Already an established player when he took over but let him go. I know he wont get an All Star (and played replay with broken thumb) but Parsons and Fenton were the quality midfielders out there this year. Horan must have been looking at that and thinking 'what the fcuk was I thinking'?
He is probably thinking Barry Moran 2012 Aidan O Shea 2013 were more impressive in midfield for Mayo than Parsons was this year. At no stage watching the 2012,2013 All Ireland finals did I think Mayo would win or in your own words had the Als in the palm of your hands, if anything Mayo peaked before those finals and no manager could reverse that.
This is repetitive any wearying.
Nobody that knows anything would think those two are more impressive than Parsons! Besides I don t think Parsons was even in the panel in 2012/13!!!
And no, Mayo did not 'peak' before those finals. They screwed up on selection and tactics.
I don t know where you are from Blowitupref but wherever you are from I would not presume that I know more about your situation than you do. It is not reliable to come to conclusions attending a neutral game or 2 or watching live games on tv. I would never offer a meaningful opinion about likes of Down, Armagh, Tyrone, Cork etc. I'm not informed enough.
Everybody seems to think they know how to pigeonhole Mayo. Most haven t a clue what's going on tbh.
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2015, 12:45:26 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2015, 12:33:55 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Perhaps, seeing as nobody is saying anything we don't know. Horan coming back wouldn't be ths answer. His tactical flaws were there for all to see. Second comings don't usually work either.
Agree. He had 2 AIs in the palm of his hand and............
Got so much right it's a shame. But blind spots undid him. A big blind spot was Tom Parsons. Already an established player when he took over but let him go. I know he wont get an All Star (and played replay with broken thumb) but Parsons and Fenton were the quality midfielders out there this year. Horan must have been looking at that and thinking 'what the fcuk was I thinking'?
You are way off base there Moy about Parsons.Parsons was not a regular in JOMs final 2 years and Horan gave him a few chances in the 2011 league but he was not close to being the same player he is now .He had a persistent groin injury and his work rate was non exisent so Horan dropped him from the panel.Horan brought him back in 2014 and he would have been a regular starter but injuries put paid to that.The biggest factor in Parsons emergence as a top class midfielder is his attitude change,where as before he just stood in the middle of the field and thought all he had to do was catch the ball and give it off ,now he has become a box to box midfielder and his tackling for a big man is superb.Fenton will get the all star this year but in my opinion Parsons has been much better overall .
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2015, 01:37:53 AM
Nobody that knows anything would think those two are more impressive than Parsons! Besides I don t think Parsons was even in the panel in 2012/13!!!
And no, Mayo did not 'peak' before those finals. They screwed up on selection and tactics.
Aidan O Shea was All star midfielder in 2013 and Barry Moran had good championship in 2012 in midfield if i recall right he was nominated for midfield All-star like Parsons is now.
All a matter of opinion and it seems you will stick to your strong belief that selection and tactics screwed it up however many keen observers including some Mayo supporters believed Mayo had peaked before those two finals.
Moysider, i take your point about the Roscommon team of 1977-80.. The problem was that they arrived on the scene at the same time as the great Dublin/Kerry rivalry. Armagh were the other strong team of that time..Mick O'Dwyer always said about Kerry's 4 in a row, that the 1980 final against Ros, was the one final that they probably shouldn't have won.
Was part of the reason Parsons wasn't involved not to do with him working / studying in the UK?
Quote from: moysider on October 02, 2015, 12:45:26 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2015, 12:33:55 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Perhaps, seeing as nobody is saying anything we don't know. Horan coming back wouldn't be ths answer. His tactical flaws were there for all to see. Second comings don't usually work either.
Agree. He had 2 AIs in the palm of his hand and............
Didn't realise Dublin had two players unable to move on the pitch for the last ten minutes in 2013 - a game you lost by a point.
Just to be clear on something, when the Waterford squad voted no confidence in Michael Ryan, it was reported that this was an official action, i.e. the GPA has set it up so squads must be asked for their opinion on the management team. Is that what happened in Mayo?
Quote from: mckieran on October 01, 2015, 12:11:30 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
After Horan you needed a man with a plan. You picked the CB vice-chairman's brother. Hard to make the case that McStay wasn't Mayo's last best hope of winning an AI with this team.
In all honesty I have huge respect for the current Mayo team - easily the second best Connacht side in my lifetime - but I am very happy Mayo scuffed the choice last Autumn and let us get McStay, a man I rate very highly. If we give him time we'll be well placed.
I have to ask - what team do you consider the best? And what age are you (so I know what teams are within your lifetime)?
As Syferus hasn't answered you I'd presume he's at least in his 20s so he's probably talking about Galway....
Quote from: thebuzz on October 02, 2015, 10:58:52 AM
Quote from: mckieran on October 01, 2015, 12:11:30 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on September 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 30, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 30, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
Quote from: Chimley on September 30, 2015, 07:59:38 PM
I can't believe that the players have embarked on this course of action without a couple of moves ahead worked out in advance. I'd say that they will next put a gun to the county boards head, threatening to pull out of the squad en masse unless they get new management with guarantees of higher level of preparation/coaching/medical etc. They may not have any say in names but the likes of Rochford might be acceptable to both sides.
Rochford is the obvious choice. With Buckley alongside. Spoke to a couple of the Corofin lads, before they won their all-Ireland, and they said his level of preparation both on themselves and opposition was like nothing they'd ever seen. Seems to be exactly what the Mayo players feel the current setup is lacking.
K-Mac was the obvious choice last year too Shark.
No he wasn't. I know you're excited but he's not proven at senior intercounty level. Neither mgmt team on offer last year stood out
After Horan you needed a man with a plan. You picked the CB vice-chairman's brother. Hard to make the case that McStay wasn't Mayo's last best hope of winning an AI with this team.
In all honesty I have huge respect for the current Mayo team - easily the second best Connacht side in my lifetime - but I am very happy Mayo scuffed the choice last Autumn and let us get McStay, a man I rate very highly. If we give him time we'll be well placed.
I have to ask - what team do you consider the best? And what age are you (so I know what teams are within your lifetime)?
As Syferus hasn't answered you I'd presume he's at least in his 20s so he's probably talking about Galway....
Mid-20s. Galway obviously the best because they actually won the big one.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2015, 12:33:55 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Perhaps, seeing as nobody is saying anything we don't know. Horan coming back wouldn't be ths answer. His tactical flaws were there for all to see. Second comings don't usually work either.
The majority I can think of have been successful.
Jack O'Connor won an All-Ireland when he came back.
Billy Morgan woke Cork football out of its slumber when he came back.
John Maughan's return was a relative success in that he got a very average Mayo team back to an All-Ireland final.
Kevin Heffernan left the Dublin team for nearly two years between 1976 and 1978 and went on to win another All-Ireland in 1983.
Art McRory has had several spells in charge of Tyrone and achieved success in each.
Eamon Coleman and Brian McEniff both achieved reasonable success when they came back to manage Derry and Donegal respectively.
Jimmy Barry-Murphy overall had a pretty successful return in Cork even if things went off the rails a bit this year.
Other returns, like John O'Mahony, Babs Keating, Cyril Farrell and Michael Bond, have not been a success. In most of those cases the game had simply passed those managers by and they had not evolved their thinking on the game. That would hardly be the case with Horan given that he's only been gone a year.
But there's nothing to say that a returning manager shouldn't have success merely because he's managed a team previously.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2015, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2015, 12:33:55 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Perhaps, seeing as nobody is saying anything we don't know. Horan coming back wouldn't be ths answer. His tactical flaws were there for all to see. Second comings don't usually work either.
The majority I can think of have been successful.
Jack O'Connor won an All-Ireland when he came back.
Billy Morgan woke Cork football out of its slumber when he came back.
John Maughan's return was a relative success in that he got a very average Mayo team back to an All-Ireland final.
Kevin Heffernan left the Dublin team for nearly two years between 1976 and 1978 and went on to win another All-Ireland in 1983.
Art McRory has had several spells in charge of Tyrone and achieved success in each.
Eamon Coleman and Brian McEniff both achieved reasonable success when they came back to manage Derry and Donegal respectively.
Jimmy Barry-Murphy overall had a pretty successful return in Cork even if things went off the rails a bit this year.
Other returns, like John O'Mahony, Babs Keating, Cyril Farrell and Michael Bond, have not been a success. In most of those cases the game had simply passed those managers by and they had not evolved their thinking on the game. That would hardly be the case with Horan given that he's only been gone a year.
But there's nothing to say that a returning manager shouldn't have success merely because he's managed a team previously.
The thing about doing the job the first time is you are full of excitement, energy and focus. These get lost in a second coming. You know the pitfalls and the work ahead. And this can take a lot away from you including being adventurous and daring.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 02, 2015, 11:51:41 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2015, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2015, 12:33:55 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Ros were missing Diarmuid Murtagh, Senan Kilbride, Cathal Shine and a couple more in Enniskillen....Back to the Mayo Civil War. How long will it take for H/C To step down? The players may have grievances, but imo, the heave has been motivated by a desire to see James Horan back as manager. It's his job, if he wants it.
Perhaps, seeing as nobody is saying anything we don't know. Horan coming back wouldn't be ths answer. His tactical flaws were there for all to see. Second comings don't usually work either.
The majority I can think of have been successful.
Jack O'Connor won an All-Ireland when he came back.
Billy Morgan woke Cork football out of its slumber when he came back.
John Maughan's return was a relative success in that he got a very average Mayo team back to an All-Ireland final.
Kevin Heffernan left the Dublin team for nearly two years between 1976 and 1978 and went on to win another All-Ireland in 1983.
Art McRory has had several spells in charge of Tyrone and achieved success in each.
Eamon Coleman and Brian McEniff both achieved reasonable success when they came back to manage Derry and Donegal respectively.
Jimmy Barry-Murphy overall had a pretty successful return in Cork even if things went off the rails a bit this year.
Other returns, like John O'Mahony, Babs Keating, Cyril Farrell and Michael Bond, have not been a success. In most of those cases the game had simply passed those managers by and they had not evolved their thinking on the game. That would hardly be the case with Horan given that he's only been gone a year.
But there's nothing to say that a returning manager shouldn't have success merely because he's managed a team previously.
The thing about doing the job the first time is you are full of excitement, energy and focus. These get lost in a second coming. You know the pitfalls and the work ahead. And this can take a lot away from you including being adventurous and daring.
You don't need time away from a job to know that, though. Any manager who has been in a job for two or three years will have that.
Iolair, I am surprised you invited the lunatic fringe by posting this topic on the general board. The 'discussion' has descended into WUMs, lectures from people from other countries telling our players how to behave (pretty much the same thing) and, of course, all things Roscommon.
The number of 'you are ignoring this user' comments on this thread tells me all I need to know about its value.
If there is to be any proper discussion it should be on the Mayo section of the board.
You'd have to presume that the Mayo players thought this through very carefully before making their move.. They would have allowed for the expected consequences of this, and ideally would have agreed on who they DO want to manage them..Failure to have covered all of the above, runs the risk of making the players very foolish..We still don't know what the players' specific problems with H/C are, although i'm sure the Co Board would know after last night. If the players have a replacement manager in mind, it can only be James Horan.. Who else would they have taken this risk for? Horan has had a lot to say for himself in print and radio during the last 12 months. Has anyone read or heard anything from him since last weekend?
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 12:23:13 PM
Iolair, I am surprised you invited the lunatic fringe by posting this topic on the general board. The 'discussion' has descended into WUMs, lectures from people from other countries telling our players how to behave (pretty much the same thing) and, of course, all things Roscommon.
The number of 'you are ignoring this user' comments on this thread tells me all I need to know about its value.
If there is to be any proper discussion it should be on the Mayo section of the board.
Yeah. Kinda did a bad job keeping this one in house. Don't burn your panties when it's your own precious panel (who are getting almost no blame from Mayo supporters) that have made Mayo the star of the Autumn again.
Posts like the above don't reflect well on you or your county.
I have to go with maigheo on this talk about Tom Parsons
Tom Parsons lined out for Mayo in league matches in 2011 and didn't look anything like an inter county footballer. This same year the two O'Shea's and Barry Moran started to really up their game. Jason Gibbons was also knocking about.
In 2014 James Horan went out of his way to bring Parsons back and despite a bad injury early in the league he continued to have him flown home from Wales for training. It was obvious at this stage that Parsons had totally changed his attitude and only for niggly injuries during the year it was clear Horan fancied him. Its a credit to Parsons the way he has developed the last couple of years and it has shown his desire to play for Mayo. James Horan has to be given some credit for facilitating this.
You can say what you like about tactics and team selection (and everyone is an expert in hindsight) but I cant remember to many complaining about Tom Parsons exclusion in 2012 and 2013
I don't see that it has to be Horan at all.
I'm sure the lads have a fair idea of what level they expect a manager to bring and there's a few out there that would fill that.
Looking at it rationally there are three teams that can win next years AI, we are one of them, any manager would be delighted to get a crack at that.
McGuinness, Rochford, McStay, Horan and possibly Jack O'Connor all look like they could bring a level of professionalism that the players expect. McStay is gone from that list.
It's not unreasonable for the players to expect the best and to act when they feel they're not getting it. These lads are giving up everything and should expect that everything is in place to help them achieve it.
I heard this referenced on Second Captains yesterday:
A Chairde – It is some time since we decided that a letter in this strain should be written in an effort to remedy a state of affairs which, in our opinion, is detrimental to football in Mayo. Year after year we have seen the County Board bring to nought the hours of training which we have put in, but yet, believing it was outside our sphere as players, we have desisted from drawing your attention to the matter. Events in Tralee last Sunday have banished our indecision, however, and we feel the time has come when something must be done before football disappears completely in Mayo – unwept, unhonoured and unsung.
Since 1939, Mayo football has struck a very lean patch and only now is it rounding the corner. The displays given by the team against Kildare, Antrim and Kerry show that with a little help and encouragement – along the right lines – the present batch of footballers is in the top line today. And, furthermore, we think we were in the same grade in 1946 when we played the disputed game with Roscommon. The collapse of the replay and the repetition of the debacle in this year's championship we blame on the total indifference of the County Board. For weeks before the championship the Dublin players clamoured for matches with other counties, not for their own sake – they would have too much football in Dublin – but for the sake of the county and with the view of giving the members of the team an opportunity of playing together and of perfecting their combination. But the only matches were (1) against a makeshift Galway team and (2) against Longford when some of the players had prior engagements.
Not only did these matches fail in their primary object, i.e. as a conclusive try-out for the team but they also failed in their secondary object. i.e. as an informative aid to the selectors in making their final choice, for the simple reason that there were very few selectors present at either game. It seems that when a Mayo team is selected the selectors are permitted to depart home and never see the results of their work.
They never go near an intercounty match, either at their own or the Co. Board's expense unless it is played in their own back garden. We ask you if this is the correct attitude to adopt? Can such a selection committee be efficient and/or effective?
Nor has that indifference vanished yet as can be seen from the fact that only one member of the County Board – and the most maligned member at that – travelled to Tralee for the recent League match. Where were the others? Did they think the result of the match a foregone conclusion, or are they solely a "victory" County Board? Perhaps if they had been present the result might have been a foregone conclusion! However, they weren't there, and the Secretary and four players selected, in approximately ten minutes, a team which was not afraid of Kerry, but which went out and justified their confidence in themselves as footballers. They may have missed the sermons and the fatherly advice and the old reminder that they had the confidence (?) of the Co. Board behind them! But the result of the match should answer that query. That the material is there has now been proved, but that it needs better management has likewise been proved.
For instance, what lesson has the County Board learned from the Tralee game? Is it indicative of good management that one member is expected to bring back a full report on the prowess of each player, while the same member, while in Tralee, was meeting Kerry officials, making arrangements about hotel accommodation, meals etc., supplying bandages, elastoplast, and embrocation, presiding at a selection meeting, massaging the team before they went on the field, towelling and rubbing and supplying badly-needed refreshments at half-time, and even then at the team's request togging out as a sub? But more credit to the man in question – he did all that and something more when, in the first quarter he made two match-winning switches, a practice completely foreign to Mayo GAA officials. It is an unselfish efficiency and spirit such as this that a Co. Board wants, and not until this is forthcoming will football again flourish in Mayo.
If we were asked to explain why recent Mayo selections have been unsuccessful we should say that, in the first place, the selection committee is too unwieldy to be effective. The present committee of from sixteen to twenty members should be slashed to approximately five, as big numbers tend to retard progress; secondly, the players don't get sufficient training as a team. Challenge games should (and can easily) be arranged with other counties so that (a) a team could be selected and (b) having been selected, that it could be trained as a unit. Thirdly, we feel that too much time and energy has been spent on petty squabbles existing among officials, but not among the players. We, as representatives of the four divisions within Mayo, ask you to put aside petty jealousies and favouritism, to get together, stay together and pull together, to pick a team, not of "historic" players, nor of "friendly" or "kindred" players, but a team made up of the best 15 players available.
We know you can do it – we not only ask you but we demand you do this and do it here and now. If you do,1948 will be our year. If you don't, then 1948 will echo the remarks heard from 1940 to 1947 – "Beaten again! Mayo, God help us!"
Signed by Padraic Carney, Sean Flanagan, Liam Hastings, Tom Langan and Eamonn Mongey
McGuiness won't be taking any mangers job in the near term and Jacko is already installed as Kerry U21 manager. Basically Mayo if they're lucky are going back to the well with Horan or hoping Rochford can win them an AI immediately.
Whatever happens the pressure on the players has racketed up even higher, and that's mostly their own doing.
Quote from: Syferus on October 02, 2015, 01:24:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 12:23:13 PM
Iolair, I am surprised you invited the lunatic fringe by posting this topic on the general board. The 'discussion' has descended into WUMs, lectures from people from other countries telling our players how to behave (pretty much the same thing) and, of course, all things Roscommon.
The number of 'you are ignoring this user' comments on this thread tells me all I need to know about its value.
If there is to be any proper discussion it should be on the Mayo section of the board.
Yeah. Kinda did a bad job keeping this one in house. Don't burn your panties when it's your own precious panel (who are getting almost no blame from Mayo supporters) that have made Mayo the star of the Autumn again.
Posts like the above don't reflect well on you or your county.
Not one of your posts reflect well on your county, but by Jesus it doesn't stop you.
Quote from: Tubberman on October 02, 2015, 02:12:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 02, 2015, 01:24:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 12:23:13 PM
Iolair, I am surprised you invited the lunatic fringe by posting this topic on the general board. The 'discussion' has descended into WUMs, lectures from people from other countries telling our players how to behave (pretty much the same thing) and, of course, all things Roscommon.
The number of 'you are ignoring this user' comments on this thread tells me all I need to know about its value.
If there is to be any proper discussion it should be on the Mayo section of the board.
Yeah. Kinda did a bad job keeping this one in house. Don't burn your panties when it's your own precious panel (who are getting almost no blame from Mayo supporters) that have made Mayo the star of the Autumn again.
Posts like the above don't reflect well on you or your county.
Not one of your posts reflect well on your county, but by Jesus it doesn't stop you.
:D
Quote from: Tubberman on October 02, 2015, 02:12:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 02, 2015, 01:24:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 12:23:13 PM
Iolair, I am surprised you invited the lunatic fringe by posting this topic on the general board. The 'discussion' has descended into WUMs, lectures from people from other countries telling our players how to behave (pretty much the same thing) and, of course, all things Roscommon.
The number of 'you are ignoring this user' comments on this thread tells me all I need to know about its value.
If there is to be any proper discussion it should be on the Mayo section of the board.
Yeah. Kinda did a bad job keeping this one in house. Don't burn your panties when it's your own precious panel (who are getting almost no blame from Mayo supporters) that have made Mayo the star of the Autumn again.
Posts like the above don't reflect well on you or your county.
Not one of your posts reflect well on your county, but by Jesus it doesn't stop you.
Nice.
Quote from: Syferus on October 02, 2015, 02:01:40 PM
McGuiness won't be taking any mangers job in the near term and Jacko is already installed as Kerry U21 manager. Basically Mayo if they're lucky are going back to the well with Horan or hoping Rochford can win them an AI immediately.
Whatever happens the pressure on the players has racketed up even higher, and that's mostly their own doing.
Such nonsense, there's pressure on them as a top three team, end of story, maximum pressure if you like. There has been the last four years.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 02, 2015, 01:56:43 PM
I don't see that it has to be Horan at all.
I'm sure the lads have a fair idea of what level they expect a manager to bring and there's a few out there that would fill that.
Looking at it rationally there are three teams that can win next years AI, we are one of them, any manager would be delighted to get a crack at that.
McGuinness, Rochford, McStay, Horan and possibly Jack O'Connor all look like they could bring a level of professionalism that the players expect. McStay is gone from that list.
Realistically so its James Horan or Stephen Rochford
Not a chance of McGuinness coming over to manage Mayo and if he did how much commitment could he give to it. O'Connor has taken the U21 job in Kerry so again not going to happen.
Rochford has won a club title with Corofin and according to the Rossies this is the be all and end all to managerial success but would he really want to take it in the middle of all this mess. He has no intercounty experience and wont be given time to figure it out like James Horan was in 2011
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
Maybe but I did not get this impression from a player. This vote was taken a couple of weeks ago when the managerial landscape may have looked a bit different.
Maybe they just wanted rid of the immediate problem and then see what happens?
Quote from: StephenC on October 02, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
When a manager loses the dressing room, e.g. in English soccer, is it always incumbent on the players to have a new manager 'in mind'?
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 02, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
When a manager loses the dressing room, e.g. in English soccer, is it always incumbent on the players to have a new manager 'in mind'?
No but then again in soccer, players don't generally take a vote and present it to the owners of the club demanding that the management be removed. At least if it has happened I've never heard of it.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 02, 2015, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 02, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
When a manager loses the dressing room, e.g. in English soccer, is it always incumbent on the players to have a new manager 'in mind'?
No but then again in soccer, players don't generally take a vote and present it to the owners of the club demanding that the management be removed. At least if it has happened I've never heard of it.
In this case they didn't present it to the owners, the CB might think they own Mayo football but they don't.
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 02, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
When a manager loses the dressing room, e.g. in English soccer, is it always incumbent on the players to have a new manager 'in mind'?
Maybe or as I said maybe they just saw no future with the 2.
Here's a story that may put a different perspective on things if true. I think it might have foundation.
Apparently one of the grievances players have is of outsider interference. They are unhappy that Sir John was in the dressing room before at least one of the Dublin games.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 02, 2015, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 02, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
When a manager loses the dressing room, e.g. in English soccer, is it always incumbent on the players to have a new manager 'in mind'?
No but then again in soccer, players don't generally take a vote and present it to the owners of the club demanding that the management be removed. At least if it has happened I've never heard of it.
No, but then again in soccer, the players just get their agents to agitate against the manager in the media.
I just read John Casey's piece in the Mayo Advisor and the thick plottens, as my old Connemara buddy used to say. He says he was told that Cillian and Keith had a meeting with the gruesome twosome before the story went public and told them about the players complaints.
That's what I would have expected of them and if it's true, then Vincent and Mike were telling porkies when they said the move came as a surprise to them.
Surely, at the very least, Noel would have told the brother so the CB being surprised at anything the players had in mind is a load of rubbish. But what worries me is that somebody is deliberately leaking snips of information to the media and it isn't being done in the best interests of Mayo football.
That could also explain how, first, the way Lee Keegan voted was picked up by the media and then the names of three others that were published.
I very much doubt that the players wanted the results of the vote to be made public either.
I can't imagine any of the players would spill the beans but who else would be in a position to disclose what happened at their meeting.
It's a bit of a worry alright.
Mayo have a backroom team of 20??
Quote from: heffo on October 02, 2015, 06:02:47 PM
Mayo have a backroom team of 20??
12 off top of head.
Lar, i heard that the vote took place on the Saturday before last, 27-7..Higgins and O'Connor had to wait a week to meet H/C as Connelly was out of the country on a family holiday. He wasn't long home last Sunday when the four met and the players decision was relayed by the players..Someone on management/CO board side of the fence leaking info.
this is ridiculous
Cork haven't recovered from the hurling strikes back in the day
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 02, 2015, 06:53:18 PM
this is ridiculous
Cork haven't recovered from the hurling strikes back in the day
Is there a strike now?
Jack O`Shea says he takes you`s, Back to pushing the cars in the carpark lads lol
Quote from: ballinaman on October 02, 2015, 06:07:42 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 02, 2015, 06:02:47 PM
Mayo have a backroom team of 20??
12 off top of head.
20 according to John Casey (I think) in one of the Mayo locals - he listed them off.
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 04:10:20 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 02, 2015, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 02, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
When a manager loses the dressing room, e.g. in English soccer, is it always incumbent on the players to have a new manager 'in mind'?
No but then again in soccer, players don't generally take a vote and present it to the owners of the club demanding that the management be removed. At least if it has happened I've never heard of it.
No, but then again in soccer, the players just get their agents to agitate against the manager in the media.
Soccer players are owned by the Club! They are employees of the Club tied by a contract! That is their profession. They are professionals. Their Manager is full time and paid by the club. They have to do what their Manager and owners tell them.
Gaelic players are free agents. They offer their trade at an expenses rate. They are not tied to a contract. They can walk away any time. Gaelic intercounty players are no different to Gaelic club players, if they have problems with the Manager/Coach they can do/say something about it.
What has happened in Mayo happens with a lot of County Boards across the country. Most of the time players sit on their hands and accept their fate under an incompetent regime for another year. Other times the coach is quietly removed before a Mutiny. In this case we have County Chairman a brother of one of the joint managers. So there has to be an extra push in this case. That added to the high profile of the team at the moment makes this fiasco a Journalists dream.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 02, 2015, 06:28:59 PM
Lar, i heard that the vote took place on the Saturday before last, 27-7..Higgins and O'Connor had to wait a week to meet H/C as Connelly was out of the country on a family holiday. He wasn't long home last Sunday when the four met and the players decision was relayed by the players..Someone on management/CO board side of the fence leaking info.
That's the problem - someone in a position to know is deliberately attempting to shove a spanner in the works. Right now, it doesn't suit either party to have details being leaked to the media, bit by bit.
As I see it, it doesn't suit Laurel and Hardy to have everybody know that at least 27 of the payers in their squad want to get rid of them and I can't see any reason why any of the players involved want the way he voted to be known to everyone.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 02, 2015, 08:36:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 04:10:20 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 02, 2015, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 02, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
When a manager loses the dressing room, e.g. in English soccer, is it always incumbent on the players to have a new manager 'in mind'?
No but then again in soccer, players don't generally take a vote and present it to the owners of the club demanding that the management be removed. At least if it has happened I've never heard of it.
No, but then again in soccer, the players just get their agents to agitate against the manager in the media.
Gaelic intercounty players are no different to Gaelic club players
Not true in the strictest sense - if an IC players refuses to make themselves available for IC games then they could be suspended from club activity.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 02, 2015, 07:30:21 PM
Jack O`Shea says he takes you`s, Back to pushing the cars in the carpark lads lol
Jacko wasn't the manager for the car pushing episode.
The Mayo players must have a plan B, and I'd be surprised if it was Horan. From the outside it looks as if the players have decided to take control of things, and an intelligent group like that will have a strong candidate lined up and their availability teased out.
2016 is a huge carrot for Mayo - all Ireland final place up for grabs without having to face Dublin or Kerry until they get there.
Time to call in a bit of the ex-pat money and make the big call. I'm sure Tony McEntee could be persuaded west for a couple of years - he might only need one.
Quote from: heffo on October 02, 2015, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 02, 2015, 08:36:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 04:10:20 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 02, 2015, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 02, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
When a manager loses the dressing room, e.g. in English soccer, is it always incumbent on the players to have a new manager 'in mind'?
No but then again in soccer, players don't generally take a vote and present it to the owners of the club demanding that the management be removed. At least if it has happened I've never heard of it.
No, but then again in soccer, the players just get their agents to agitate against the manager in the media.
Gaelic intercounty players are no different to Gaelic club players
Not true in the strictest sense - if an IC players refuses to make themselves available for IC games then they could be suspended from club activity.
Surely that can't be true??
Quote from: Erne Man on October 02, 2015, 08:52:40 PM
The Mayo players must have a plan B, and I'd be surprised if it was Horan. From the outside it looks as if the players have decided to take control of things, and an intelligent group like that will have a strong candidate lined up and their availability teased out.
2016 is a huge carrot for Mayo - all Ireland final place up for grabs without having to face Dublin or Kerry until they get there.
Time to call in a bit of the ex-pat money and make the big call. I'm sure Tony McEntee could be persuaded west for a couple of years - he might only need one.
Mayo are more tapped out on the funds front than a UFC fighter. This show has been on the road five years already and there's still a meaty loan on McHale to repay.
This team's chance has probably passed. The players will be the last ones to realise where they are themselves so if the Mayo board will let them choose the next man themselves they're even more incompetent than they have appeared thus far.
On Mayo Gaa Twitter account that the managers have resigned.
http://www.mayogaa.com/news/366628/statement_re:mayo_senior_football_team
Quote from: screenexile on October 02, 2015, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 02, 2015, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 02, 2015, 08:36:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 04:10:20 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 02, 2015, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 02, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
I'm assuming that the Mayo players had someone in mind as a manager when they made this move. Surely they wouldn't have taken this step without having a good idea of who would come in instead? Could they have already made contact with Horan and got some reassurances that if the way was clear, he would come back?
When a manager loses the dressing room, e.g. in English soccer, is it always incumbent on the players to have a new manager 'in mind'?
No but then again in soccer, players don't generally take a vote and present it to the owners of the club demanding that the management be removed. At least if it has happened I've never heard of it.
No, but then again in soccer, the players just get their agents to agitate against the manager in the media.
Gaelic intercounty players are no different to Gaelic club players
Not true in the strictest sense - if an IC players refuses to make themselves available for IC games then they could be suspended from club activity.
Surely that can't be true??
It's in the Official guide..
Quote from: FL/MAYO on October 02, 2015, 09:11:24 PM
On Mayo Gaa Twitter account that the managers have resigned.
http://www.mayogaa.com/news/366628/statement_re:mayo_senior_football_team
I know Pat and he is a very decent guy, as I am sure Noel is.
But resigning was the right thing to do.
Now that there was a quick resolution to it, is anyone going to expand on the specific issues around preparation etc that led to the players dissatisfaction?
Quote from: heffo on October 02, 2015, 09:28:06 PM
Now that there was a quick resolution to it, is anyone going to expand on the specific issues around preparation etc that led to the players dissatisfaction?
no
Quote from: FL/MAYO on October 02, 2015, 09:11:24 PM
On Mayo Gaa Twitter account that the managers have resigned.
http://www.mayogaa.com/news/366628/statement_re:mayo_senior_football_team
we wish to remove any obstacle that the players might perceive as preventing them from winning the All-Ireland.
Any ideas on what obstacle this was? The next manager must win the All Ireland next year or he will also be forced to resign?
Quote from: sans pessimism on October 02, 2015, 09:30:10 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 02, 2015, 09:28:06 PM
Now that there was a quick resolution to it, is anyone going to expand on the specific issues around preparation etc that led to the players dissatisfaction?
no
Were there 25 fellas queued up soloing out to a cone and hand passing it back to the man waiting?
Quote from: heffo on October 02, 2015, 09:33:59 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on October 02, 2015, 09:30:10 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 02, 2015, 09:28:06 PM
Now that there was a quick resolution to it, is anyone going to expand on the specific issues around preparation etc that led to the players dissatisfaction?
no
Were there 25 fellas queued up soloing out to a cone and hand passing it back to the man waiting?
Even the cone voted against them.
So obviously the two boys are the only obstacle to mayo winning an all Ireland?? How about finding another few forwards for a start??the pressure on Rochford now will be immense, assuming he gets the job of course!! And that's not even mentioning the pressure that the players have heaped on themselves as well! Good luck to mayo but if they couldn't win under Horan, then I doubt they'll do it under Rochford even if he did win the club ai title with corofin!! Then again he did have good forwards there. Anyone else in the running, any other dark horses??
The question I wonder is who the f**k would manage them now. Have they got their super manager lined up? What happens if they don't win the AI next year, or the year after, or the year after? I read there that the Mayo players did the same in 92 and they got battered the following year by 20 points!
Have to admit that i feel sorry for Holmes and Connelly. Two good Mayo Gaa men, family men, effectively hounded out of their management role after just one year, despite leading an All Ireland semi final replay with 15 mins to go..Over now to the players to show everyone how it should be done.
Lads, it's not accurate to say Mayo have to win the All-Ireland next year or this whole episode will have been proven as a huge mistake.
The players didn't win under Horan and didn't force him out.
But obviously they felt the preparation this year was far below the standard required. And if they didn't win with Horan, they certainly weren't going to under H&C. So to keep going with the status quo was to waste their time. There's a possibility that they could still do it next year, but they need to have top mgmt team in place. They are being selfish because they are ambitious.
Good that the two lads have gone
I doubt the players have someone specific in mind (even if they do, it shouldn't be their call) but I'd say they have a clear idea of the level of professionalism required from the new setup. It's about the process being right and if it is, the new man will get plenty of time.
Did they really regress that much with H & C though ?? They lost a replay to the all Ireland winners, same as last year!! Every team is ambitious I would say but to think these guys know what it takes to win an all Ireland is highly dubious. Maybe these lads know of another forward or two that could take them there. Because that's what's been missing imho . We'll wait to see who becomes manager I guess, he has a job on his hands!!
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 02, 2015, 09:49:55 PM
Good that the two lads have gone
I doubt the players have someone specific in mind (even if they do, it shouldn't be their call) but I'd say they have a clear idea of the level of professionalism required from the new setup. It's about the process being right and if it is, the new man will get plenty of time.
Pity our players didn't kick up in 2012.
H and C had no choice but to go as they'd " lost the dressing room" no matter who was right, wrong or to blame.
Fair play to Holmes / Connelly for walking away. God help the next manager. Perhaps only Jim mcGuinness could deliver an all Ireland to group of talented but undoubtedly stupid footballers.
Fair play to the two for resigning is right. They're Mayomen at the end of the day and knew the game was up and didn't want this saga dragging out too long. So after the mutiny who will come in?
Quote from: regal on October 02, 2015, 10:26:59 PM
Fair play to Holmes / Connelly for walking away. God help the next manager. Perhaps only Jim mcGuinness could deliver an all Ireland to group of talented but undoubtedly stupid footballers.
Good man yourself
Just read it there now, good, well-measured statement from Pat & Noel
Quote from: cicfada on October 02, 2015, 09:57:25 PM
Did they really regress that much with H & C though ?? They lost a replay to the all Ireland winners, same as last year!! Every team is ambitious I would say but to think these guys know what it takes to win an all Ireland is highly dubious. Maybe these lads know of another forward or two that could take them there. Because that's what's been missing imho . We'll wait to see who becomes manager I guess, he has a job on his hands!!
More than scoring forwards from play they need, will the next Mayo management be able to sort out the defensive issues that the last two managements couldn't?
Whats this all about?
Kiltimagh GAA
@KiltimaghGAA
Sad sad day for Mayo football. Bad move by Mayo players We will continue to support them but with a heavy heart. @MayoGAA
10:15 PM - 2 Oct 2015
I have to say I'm a massive fan of this generation of Mayo footballers. In some aspects of the game - tackling, midfield exchanges, athleticism - they're as good as any team I've ever seen, and they tend to swat off inferior opposition in the way top class sides really should. They're a truly relentless shower of b**tards once their tails are up.
And once Parsons emerged (re-emerged) this year I was so impressed with how they addressed their full-forward line problems by committing Aidan O'Shea to a role where he'll only touch the ball maybe 10-12 times in game. It actually takes a lot of balls to take the heartbeat of your team and use him, in effect, as a limb.
But, particularly in game 1 vs Dublin, it was a bit disconcerting that the team seemed so determined that he had to be option 1, 2 and 3. They made him a "limb" but were determined to keep him as the "heart". It was plain wrong. Mayo's athleticism means that they will routinely wreck just about anyone by simply running at opposition. The problem they've faced against the cream of the crop in recent years is that those big opponents also happen to be athletic, and tended to push Mayo down blind alleys. So Mayo needed variation. They needed a long ball option. But rather than accept that AOS touching the ball 6-8 times in a game would keep every opponent on their toes and probably provide the variation they need to floor anyone, for some reason they felt the need to kick every last feckin ball at him.
And as a result, Philly McMahon is now the best player in Ireland. He didn't have to concentrate, he just had to reply to the onslaught of crap ball.
Anyway, it would seem that the Mayo players are putting this problem at the feet of the management. Well, here's my beef. The players are the ones who kick those balls (most of them weren't passes), and if players as experienced and influential as Keith Higgins, Colm Boyle, Lee Keegan, Seamus O'Shea and Kevin McLoughlin choose to inanely follow this tactic, then they shouldn't have any say in who should be managing their team. They should be looking hard and long at themselves, not their mentors.
Genuinely I hope this works out for Mayo; at this point in my life I'd almost rather they win an All-Ireland than Down. But having watched experienced Mayo players make decisions and follow a script, in that game, that would have upset me greatly if they had have done it for me at Junior B level, I'm not sure we're ever going to see it. Not with this bunch.
- - -
As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 02, 2015, 10:42:05 PM
Quote from: cicfada on October 02, 2015, 09:57:25 PM
Did they really regress that much with H & C though ?? They lost a replay to the all Ireland winners, same as last year!! Every team is ambitious I would say but to think these guys know what it takes to win an all Ireland is highly dubious. Maybe these lads know of another forward or two that could take them there. Because that's what's been missing imho . We'll wait to see who becomes manager I guess, he has a job on his hands!!
More than scoring forwards from play they need, will the next Mayo management be able to sort out the defensive issues that the last two managements couldn't?
Well that's the idea isn't it. These two lads clearly didn't know how to. They're preparation was a level below what Horan provided so they had to go. Saying the players have to win the AI next year is missing the point. The players were certain they could not win it with these lads. The replay game was a shambles and the next management must have a better defensive structure in place along with improving pre match preparation. All of the above is more important than finding new forwards.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2015, 10:44:09 PM
As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.
They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.
Quote from: Ballaghman on October 02, 2015, 10:48:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 02, 2015, 10:42:05 PM
Quote from: cicfada on October 02, 2015, 09:57:25 PM
Did they really regress that much with H & C though ?? They lost a replay to the all Ireland winners, same as last year!! Every team is ambitious I would say but to think these guys know what it takes to win an all Ireland is highly dubious. Maybe these lads know of another forward or two that could take them there. Because that's what's been missing imho . We'll wait to see who becomes manager I guess, he has a job on his hands!!
More than scoring forwards from play they need, will the next Mayo management be able to sort out the defensive issues that the last two managements couldn't?
Well that's the idea isn't it. These two lads clearly didn't know how to. They're preparation was a level below what Horan provided so they had to go. Saying the players have to win the AI next year is missing the point. The players were certain they could not win it with these lads. The replay game was a shambles and the next management must have a better defensive structure in place along with improving pre match preparation. All of the above is more important than finding new forwards.
That's it all in summary. The easy thing to do for the players was sit on their hands. Time is running out and if this went on for another year it could have got a lot more messy. Sad exit for Holmes and Connelly, but that's the harsh reality of Sport. Hopefully they take a break away from the madness of the last couple of weeks, dust themselves down and give some other project a go.
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 02, 2015, 11:11:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2015, 10:44:09 PM
As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.
They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.
See, me as a neutral, I don't see these as huge defensive problems. Yep they've a tendency to concede goals, but the trade-off is that few Mayo defenders get roasted for point scoring. They don't concede as many frees either.
Maybe it's the wrong approach, and they should actually bate the living shite out of anyone who has a sniff at goal instead.
The last 4 Championship exits were 4 points in the final when they came out scared, 1 pt in the final, 3 points in an ET SF replay, and a SF replay where they were in it til the last couple of minutes. You might point these narrow deficits as a defensive problems, and you know what, you might even be right.
From my neutral standpoint though, the biggest problem for Mayo against the big teams hasn't been in containing them, it's been in dominating them and hurting them. Different viewpoints, that's all.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2015, 11:27:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 02, 2015, 11:11:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2015, 10:44:09 PM
As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.
They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.
See, me as a neutral, I don't see these as huge defensive problems. Yep they've a tendency to concede goals, but the trade-off is that few Mayo defenders get roasted for point scoring. They don't concede as many frees either.
Maybe it's the wrong approach, and they should actually bate the living shite out of anyone who has a sniff at goal instead.
The last 4 Championship exits were 4 points in the final, 1 pt in the final, 3 points in an ET SF replay, and an ET replay where they were in it til the last couple of minutes. You might point these narrow deficits as a defensive problems, and you know what, you might even be right.
From my neutral standpoint though, the biggest problem for Mayo against the big teams hasn't been in containing them, it's been in dominating them and hurting them. Different viewpoints, that's all.
From a non neutral point of view, We stink in the back line. We did ok against a tired Donegal side. But just look at our record otherwise.
Y'know I feel sorry for the two bucks. I hate to see anyone being humiliated...There but for the grace of God and all that...They probably have wives and families and close friends who will be upset also at the way things turned out.
But as I've said before, they were dead men walking when they took on the job. Nothing less than an All-Ireland would get them off the hook- where they had hung themselves.
The team had sweated blood and tears under Horan and they'd have knocked down the gates of Hell to get him out, if the occasion arose. I imagine they do the same for Noel and Pateen but it would be in reverse if that pair stayed around much longer.
I don't think it would take a degree in rocket science to figure that out.
Horan almost got them to the Holy Land several times but bad luck and Horan's unwillingness to see things other than his way meant that they came up short each time. I have to say some of the players don't seem capable of thinking on their feet and show a bit of initiative when things aren't working out. Horan wasn't the only one who lacked tactical sense.
The least the team should have expected when JH left was that the CB would take its time and come up with someone, capable of taking up where he left off and hopefully add that bit extra into the mix to edge them over the line.
Instead they got two tulips- neither of whom showed any interest or willingness to take on the job.
Holmes went further and said he wasn't interested. Connelly's brother takes over as chairman and suddenly he appears on the scene with Holmes at his side and that's what the team got.
A patched up combo to suit the CB's interests and to hell with the team's chances of winning anything. Then once the preparations got underway, it became obvious that the CB was intent on clawing back every bit of a bonus that Horan squeezed out of them.
The catering company who provided the grub after matches and training sessions was let go. Cutbacks were the order of the day, two managers who weren't enthusiastic about taking on the job and who were only there to keep McStay out.
I know lads on four legs who would be able to cop on that things were always going to wind up badly for all concerned.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2015, 10:34:40 PM
Fair play to the two for resigning is right. They're Mayomen at the end of the day and knew the game was up and didn't want this saga dragging out too long. So after the mutiny who will come in?
I find it difficult to have much sympathy for H&C. You will remember some weeks ago I said I believed they should as consider their position. The player stance was not a surprise so I dunno what the secretary was on about. I also think they allowed themselves to be set up in a cushy arrangement last year and never looked comfortable.
Many of us thought last year that this might be a gap year and fair play to the players for having a very decent cut at it. The last 2 weeks are damaging and remains to be seen how much damage has been done.
Who will come in? Who knows but the immediate problem has been addressed. However at least one of the people that caused the problem is still the biggest wolf on the lot. Of course the players cannot choose who will manage them but do you honestly trust Mike Connolly and co.(after all that has been said and done) to get it right now?
I know it s unlikely to happen but at next board meeting there should be a motion of no confidence in the chairman and maybe secretary as well because of how this appointment was made in the first place and handled at the end. I m hearing of issues during the year as well including when one individualwas in dressing room that should not have been there.
I think to an extent that Pat and Nole were patsies in this story. Willing participants but still patsies. imo talking about a new manager is a waste of time unless the upper deck is cleared.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2015, 10:44:09 PM
I have to say I'm a massive fan of this generation of Mayo footballers. In some aspects of the game - tackling, midfield exchanges, athleticism - they're as good as any team I've ever seen, and they tend to swat off inferior opposition in the way top class sides really should. They're a truly relentless shower of b**tards once their tails are up.
And once Parsons emerged (re-emerged) this year I was so impressed with how they addressed their full-forward line problems by committing Aidan O'Shea to a role where he'll only touch the ball maybe 10-12 times in game. It actually takes a lot of balls to take the heartbeat of your team and use him, in effect, as a limb.
But, particularly in game 1 vs Dublin, it was a bit disconcerting that the team seemed so determined that he had to be option 1, 2 and 3. They made him a "limb" but were determined to keep him as the "heart". It was plain wrong. Mayo's athleticism means that they will routinely wreck just about anyone by simply running at opposition. The problem they've faced against the cream of the crop in recent years is that those big opponents also happen to be athletic, and tended to push Mayo down blind alleys. So Mayo needed variation. They needed a long ball option. But rather than accept that AOS touching the ball 6-8 times in a game would keep every opponent on their toes and probably provide the variation they need to floor anyone, for some reason they felt the need to kick every last feckin ball at him.
And as a result, Philly McMahon is now the best player in Ireland. He didn't have to concentrate, he just had to reply to the onslaught of crap ball.
Anyway, it would seem that the Mayo players are putting this problem at the feet of the management. Well, here's my beef. The players are the ones who kick those balls (most of them weren't passes), and if players as experienced and influential as Keith Higgins, Colm Boyle, Lee Keegan, Seamus O'Shea and Kevin McLoughlin choose to inanely follow this tactic, then they shouldn't have any say in who should be managing their team. They should be looking hard and long at themselves, not their mentors.
Genuinely I hope this works out for Mayo; at this point in my life I'd almost rather they win an All-Ireland than Down. But having watched experienced Mayo players make decisions and follow a script, in that game, that would have upset me greatly if they had have done it for me at Junior B level, I'm not sure we're ever going to see it. Not with this bunch.
- - -
As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.
Very few will agree with that footnote opinion.
From the Bunker, you should try watching a Down / Meath / Galway ** defence in recent years to understand what stinking in the back line means.
Mayo's midfield wins 7-8 out of every 10 exchanges, and their half-back line consists of probably the best pick-pocketers I've ever seen. So their full-back line doesn't face an onslaught, ever. As a result there seems to be a belief within that camp that they don't need to overly protect their full back line. Especially as the likes of Higgins, Cunniffe, Vaughan, Barrett and Cafferky can hold their own in any 50:50 battle; they're all quality defenders at an individual level. Doesn't mean they will win them all, just means that if 20 balls go in, 10 go straight out.
It's a remarkably good ratio anyhow, from what I've seen. Enough to win at least one All-Ireland. No doubt they could protect that full-back line a little more, but my own gut feeling is that the players know that their forwards can't win a game by themselves, so their half-backs and midfield are drawn forward to overlap. Which, again, I think could work for Mayo... especially if a plan B exists (O'Shea). The problem this year, in my opinion, is that Mayo were still moving forward in Plan A, but ALWAYS kicking Plan B.
----
** I mention those counties as they're of a similar stature to Mayo in terms of history, but these days have nothing even remotely posing a defensive talent or structure to compete for an All Ireland.
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
His demands for the team would cost the county board too much? Same as Horan demanded and indeed had many's the row with them over.
Was it a case of empty coffers and H and C prepared to work within the budget while McS wanted a Horanesque budget???
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 12:28:31 AM
Was it a case of empty coffers and H and C prepared to work within the budget while McS wanted a Horanesque budget???
I can't say for sure but that's probably a reasonable description of it
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 02, 2015, 11:11:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2015, 10:44:09 PM
As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.
They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.
You see this right here. This is a nothing but the typical nonsense you see from some lads on this board. This is a man who was listening to Joe Brolly one day and as Joe was in full flow someone came in to offer him a cup of tea. He picked up some of Joe's bullshit but has made a total hames of rehashing it as his own on this board
Mayo remind me a bit of the guys from the end of dumb and dumber where they say if we keep our eyes peeled we will catch our break eventually.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLB-uMPj27s
Horan is a great manager and brought them from no where in 2010 to contenders every year but I think they missed there best chance in 2014. They had 2 chances and didn't figure out that Donaghy is a special case and they needed a big man to mark him e.g. Barry Moran. If they stopped Donaghy by breaking any ball round him they would have won fairly comfortable and probably would have beat Donegal. This year they had a harder draw but they found themselves 5 up with 15 to go and didn't know how to kill the game. Donegal in the same position the year before got everyone back and suckered punched Dublin every time they over committed going forward. Mayo need to take one of there chances soon or they could easily miss the boat with this team.
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2015, 12:33:26 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 02, 2015, 11:11:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2015, 10:44:09 PM
As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.
They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.
You see this right here. This is a nothing but the typical nonsense you see from some lads on this board. This is a man who was listening to Joe Brolly one day and as Joe was in full flow someone came in to offer him a cup of tea. He picked up some of Joe's bullshit but has made a total hames of rehashing it as his own on this board
I don't listen or read the views of Joe Brolly. If he said something similar he would probably be right on this rare occasion.
Quote from: dferg on October 03, 2015, 12:35:43 AM
Mayo remind me a bit of the guys from the end of dumb and dumber where they say if we keep our eyes peeled we will catch our break eventually.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLB-uMPj27s
Horan is a great manager and brought them from no where in 2010 to contenders every year but I think they missed there best chance in 2014. They had 2 chances and didn't figure out that Donaghy is a special case and they needed a big man to mark him e.g. Barry Moran. If they stopped Donaghy by breaking any ball round him they would have won fairly comfortable and probably would have beat Donegal. This year they had a harder draw but they found themselves 5 up with 15 to go and didn't know how to kill the game. Donegal in the same position the year before got everyone back and suckered punched Dublin every time they over committed going forward. Mayo need to take one of there chances soon or they could easily miss the boat with this team.
The boat has sailed. Mayo 2017 maybe.
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 03, 2015, 12:45:01 AM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2015, 12:33:26 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 02, 2015, 11:11:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 02, 2015, 10:44:09 PM
As a footnote, Mayo (IMHO) don't actually have defensive problems. I'd even suggest they've a better defence man-for-man than any team in Ireland. The only teams that even slightly trouble their defence are those littered with star forwards. This is not a problem, it's what should happen. Mayo's problems are at the other end. Their defence will always give give them a chance. Their attacking play does not.
They don't? it was clear in the Connacht championship this year against Galway and Sligo that they had defensive problems. On average Mayo have conceded two goals per game in the championship over the last four years. The last four All Ireland winners Kerry,Donegal,Dublin twice were all solid defensively Mayo (IMHO) were not.
You see this right here. This is a nothing but the typical nonsense you see from some lads on this board. This is a man who was listening to Joe Brolly one day and as Joe was in full flow someone came in to offer him a cup of tea. He picked up some of Joe's bullshit but has made a total hames of rehashing it as his own on this board
I don't listen or read the views of Joe Brolly. If he said something similar he would probably be right on this rare occasion.
No. Even Joe isn't that daft to suggest Mayo have conceded an average of two goals per game for the past four years.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on October 03, 2015, 12:52:47 AM
Quote from: dferg on October 03, 2015, 12:35:43 AM
Mayo remind me a bit of the guys from the end of dumb and dumber where they say if we keep our eyes peeled we will catch our break eventually.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLB-uMPj27s
Horan is a great manager and brought them from no where in 2010 to contenders every year but I think they missed there best chance in 2014. They had 2 chances and didn't figure out that Donaghy is a special case and they needed a big man to mark him e.g. Barry Moran. If they stopped Donaghy by breaking any ball round him they would have won fairly comfortable and probably would have beat Donegal. This year they had a harder draw but they found themselves 5 up with 15 to go and didn't know how to kill the game. Donegal in the same position the year before got everyone back and suckered punched Dublin every time they over committed going forward. Mayo need to take one of there chances soon or they could easily miss the boat with this team.
The boat has sailed. Mayo 2017 maybe.
Dunno about that. Clear path to the final next year without having to face Dublin/Kerry. If all goes to form, would only have to beat one of those. Next year is a great chance, which might have something to do with the players wanting to get the right management structure in place now.
A lot depends on what happens now. What happened a year ago meant that this year could be messy and it ended up very messy indeed.
I know a few lads - one in particular that contributes here regularly - that said that the worst scenario for 2015, was we would win Connacht and lose a semi with some honour and the year would be regarded as a decent one. In that event management would have grounds to continue. That is what happened. In effect this was a waste of a year but it could have been worse. The players could have been brow beaten into continuing with a dysfunctional management.
Maybe the boat has sailed. We were told it sailed in '12, '13 and '14 before. I'm not optimistic but we ll see. I do know I was hopeless before both semis this year. My despair was not about our defence or lack of scoring forwards either. The stuff uninformed neutrals harp on about.
Tonight's development is not the end of this affair. It's just the beginning.
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2015, 01:12:38 AM
No. Even Joe isn't that daft to suggest Mayo have conceded an average of two goals per game for the past four years.
I suppose you are daft enough to judge Mayo defensive stats within Connacht? In the All Ireland series the last four years Mayo have conceded 18 goals which rounds off as average of two goals conceded per game.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 01:17:45 AM
A lot depends on what happens now. What happened a year ago meant that this year could be messy and it ended up very messy indeed.
I know a few lads - one in particular that contributes here regularly - that said that the worst scenario for 2015, was we would win Connacht and lose a semi with some honour and the year would be regarded as a decent one. In that event management would have grounds to continue. That is what happened. In effect this was a waste of a year but it could have been worse. The players could have been brow beaten into continuing with a dysfunctional management.
Maybe the boat has sailed. We were told it sailed in '12, '13 and '14 before. I'm not optimistic but we ll see. I do know I was hopeless before both semis this year. My despair was not about our defence or lack of scoring forwards either. The stuff uninformed neutrals harp on about.
Tonight's development is not the end of this affair. It's just the beginning.
Is there the money left for any manager to make a realistic challenge for Sam though, Moy? The cost of success has never been higher than it is now. Could it be that the panel have unrealistic expectations for what any management team can provide them after five heavy-spending years?
I'd break the bank and go for Jack O'Connor
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 02:21:38 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 01:17:45 AM
A lot depends on what happens now. What happened a year ago meant that this year could be messy and it ended up very messy indeed.
I know a few lads - one in particular that contributes here regularly - that said that the worst scenario for 2015, was we would win Connacht and lose a semi with some honour and the year would be regarded as a decent one. In that event management would have grounds to continue. That is what happened. In effect this was a waste of a year but it could have been worse. The players could have been brow beaten into continuing with a dysfunctional management.
Maybe the boat has sailed. We were told it sailed in '12, '13 and '14 before. I'm not optimistic but we ll see. I do know I was hopeless before both semis this year. My despair was not about our defence or lack of scoring forwards either. The stuff uninformed neutrals harp on about.
Tonight's development is not the end of this affair. It's just the beginning.
Is there the money left for any manager to make a realistic challenge for Sam though, Moy? The cost of success has never been higher than it is now. Could it be that the panel have unrealistic expectations for what any management team can provide them after five heavy-spending years?
Obvious faux concern there. I'm being honest here, ye haven't a hope and that is all you're really lookin for is a bit of hope that Mayo will collapse . Despite all the negativity , Mayo will be back as determined and hungrier than ever in 16 and don't be overly concerned about the lolly , there are quite a few Mayo men with deep pockets around the globe who can be tapped into albeit some of the dinosaurs who haven't a clue how to go about that need to go along with their biscuit tin.
It's remarkable to see the amount of Mayo people, not just on here, but elsewhere, who believe that next year, Mayo have '' a clear path to the final''.. There's no such thing.. Hypothetically speaking, what if Galway were to beat Mayo, by even one point, next summer in Castlebar?? Then, you're talking the back door route, where strange things happen........As for Mayo's finances, it was said that this year, the players' expenses were reduced, and that Horan had always argued the players' case to the Co Board, much better than H/C were doing. Things may have slipped a bit on the medical side as well.. Might all explain why Mc Stay was '' too dear'' for them 12 months ago.
Wow wow, f u c k o f f Rossies will ya . See ye in the Hyde for the league game .
Crazy situation! who the hell do mayo think they are? easy route to the final. Aye easy route to the final and get thumped by dublin or kerry again.
Players should be ashamed. they have certainly lost my neutral vote hope they go out early doord
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 03, 2015, 02:06:47 AM
Quote from: criostlinn on October 03, 2015, 01:12:38 AM
No. Even Joe isn't that daft to suggest Mayo have conceded an average of two goals per game for the past four years.
I suppose you are daft enough to judge Mayo defensive stats within Connacht? In the All Ireland series the last four years Mayo have conceded 18 goals which rounds off as average of two goals conceded per game.
Oh so you're ruling out the Connacht matches now. Well you were the one that mentioned the Galway and Sligo matches. But thats the kinda stuff Joe gets upto. Just take out half the matches to get the figures to suit a bit better. Im still confused. How do you get an average of two goal per game. 18 goals in 12 matches.
Here I'll make it easier for you. How about we go something like against the top teams (of course you get to select these teams) Or maybe in All-Ireland finals.
Just
Quote from: redhandefender on October 03, 2015, 09:01:59 AM
Crazy situation! who the hell do mayo think they are? easy route to the final. Aye easy route to the final and get thumped by dublin or kerry again.
Players should be ashamed. they have certainly lost my neutral vote hope they go out early doord
I imagine that they will be completely gutted when they find out what you think of them, Oh, and doord to you also.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 08:30:18 AM
It's remarkable to see the amount of Mayo people, not just on here, but elsewhere, who believe that next year, Mayo have '' a clear path to the final''.. There's no such thing.. Hypothetically speaking, what if Galway were to beat Mayo, by even one point, next summer in Castlebar?? Then, you're talking the back door route, where strange things happen........As for Mayo's finances, it was said that this year, the players' expenses were reduced, and that Horan had always argued the players' case to the Co Board, much better than H/C were doing. Things may have slipped a bit on the medical side as well.. Might all explain why Mc Stay was '' too dear'' for them 12 months ago.
Agree with your assessment of 'no clear path to the final'. Mayo have to tread very carefully next year, or else some team will beat us before the final. As you said the backdoor can be full of surprises, and Mayo haven't done too well out of it either.
Provincial draws 15th October I believe.
Ye can figure out the handy path to the AI Final then. ;D
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
I dunno either and since McStay never disclosed what was going on, I'll probably never know. But the hoors at the top were prepared to go to almost any lengths to stop him.
Mind you, he did hint that he wasn't expecting even the courtesy of an interview when he applied last year. So whatever caused the problem had nothing to do with his application last year.
Paddy and his cohorts stopped at nothing to shoo him off the premises and this lead to one executive member resigning in protest at the shenanigans going on and the chairman having to step down when his part in the sorry process became known.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
Mac did say in an oblique way in one of his newspaper pieces that the players should be mature enough to take a bit of fair criticism in their stride but he didn't claim that any player had actually objected to anything McHale wrote. I think he was just reacting to the rumour.
So that story had to come from the CB.
Same goes for McStay's alleged shopping list.
Mike told us we'd be shocked if we found out what McStay was looking for. But he never went any further. So the rumour went out that Kdevin was looking for compensation for giving up his work with RTE and with the papers he wrote for. He was a mercenary fecker in other words.
But Roscommon had no problem with his shopping list or so it would appear. Come to think of it, Mike never told us what we would be shocked about.
I would expect Mike to do the decent thing now and consider his position. It's untenable by any standard.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 11:24:00 AM
Provincial draws 15th October I believe.
Ye can figure out the handy path to the AI Final then. ;D
Really don't get the snide remarks ,ye can chuckle all ye want but it will take decades for Roscommon to ever come with a team as competitive as this present Mayo team and this idea that we are just going to go away and die a death when the bulk of this team retire is bonkers .
We won the minor all Ireland in 13 ,if we were to win 21 s in 16 , you're lookin at a fairly decent formula for a good senior team after these boys hang the boots . Don't understand the panic apart from a gap in a good 21 s run which needs to be addressed this year. Too much in depth analysis these days ,people overdoing it without realising what we are actually living in , ffs we are going for six in a row all Ireland semi final appearances next year.
Quote from: larryin89 on October 03, 2015, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 11:24:00 AM
Provincial draws 15th October I believe.
Ye can figure out the handy path to the AI Final then. ;D
Really don't get the snide remarks ,ye can chuckle all ye want but it will take decades for Roscommon to ever come with a team as competitive as this present Mayo team and this idea that we are just going to go away and die a death when the bulk of this team retire is bonkers .
We won the minor all Ireland in 13 ,if we were to win 21 s in 16 , you're lookin at a fairly decent formula for a good senior team after these boys hang the boots . Don't understand the panic apart from a gap in a good 21 s run which needs to be addressed this year. Too much in depth analysis these days ,people overdoing it without realising what we are actually living in , ffs we are going for six in a row all Ireland semi final appearances next year.
That's a big if :P
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
I believe I posted it at the time before I read it publicly anywhere else.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
I dunno either and since McStay never disclosed what was going on, I'll probably never know. But the hoors at the top were prepared to go to almost any lengths to stop him.
Mind you, he did hint that he wasn't expecting even the courtesy of an interview when he applied last year. So whatever caused the problem had nothing to do with his application last year.
Paddy and his cohorts stopped at nothing to shoo him off the premises and this lead to one executive member resigning in protest at the shenanigans going on and the chairman having to step down when his part in the sorry process became known.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
Mac did say in an oblique way in one of his newspaper pieces that the players should be mature enough to take a bit of fair criticism in their stride but he didn't claim that any player had actually objected to anything McHale wrote. I think he was just reacting to the rumour.
So that story had to come from the CB.
Same goes for McStay's alleged shopping list.
Mike told us we'd be shocked if we found out what McStay was looking for. But he never went any further. So the rumour went out that Kdevin was looking for compensation for giving up his work with RTE and with the papers he wrote for. He was a mercenary fecker in other words.
But Roscommon had no problem with his shopping list or so it would appear. Come to think of it, Mike never told us what we would be shocked about.
I would expect Mike to do the decent thing now and consider his position. It's untenable by any standard.
He was also looking to have reform and an input into development and underage structures. Couldn t be havin that now. McStay was basically telling the board what they were doing wrong and that never goes down well. It was Paddy that ridiculed McStay and not Mike I believe Lar.
Rochford presented for interview for U21 job a few years ago and also proceeded to tell the boys what needed to be done. Needless to say he didn t get the gig either, ah ye know. At least the board is consistent. They don t like people with ideas or opinions.
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
I believe I posted it at the time before I read it publicly anywhere else.
Fair enough but can you remember who told you about it?I don't think it came from any of the players. The rumour just began to circulate and became accepted as fact without anyone either confirming or denying it.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 01:36:27 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
I believe I posted it at the time before I read it publicly anywhere else.
Fair enough but can you remember who told you about it?I don't think it came from any of the players. The rumour just began to circulate and became accepted as fact without anyone either confirming or denying it.
A very reliable source
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
I dunno either and since McStay never disclosed what was going on, I'll probably never know. But the hoors at the top were prepared to go to almost any lengths to stop him.
Mind you, he did hint that he wasn't expecting even the courtesy of an interview when he applied last year. So whatever caused the problem had nothing to do with his application last year.
Paddy and his cohorts stopped at nothing to shoo him off the premises and this lead to one executive member resigning in protest at the shenanigans going on and the chairman having to step down when his part in the sorry process became known.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
Mac did say in an oblique way in one of his newspaper pieces that the players should be mature enough to take a bit of fair criticism in their stride but he didn't claim that any player had actually objected to anything McHale wrote. I think he was just reacting to the rumour.
So that story had to come from the CB.
Same goes for McStay's alleged shopping list.
Mike told us we'd be shocked if we found out what McStay was looking for. But he never went any further. So the rumour went out that Kdevin was looking for compensation for giving up his work with RTE and with the papers he wrote for. He was a mercenary fecker in other words.
But Roscommon had no problem with his shopping list or so it would appear. Come to think of it, Mike never told us what we would be shocked about.
I would expect Mike to do the decent thing now and consider his position. It's untenable by any standard.
I can guarantee you we're not compensating McStay for all his lost work. In fact any word out of the Hatch seemed to suggest he was looking for the funds to set-up a professional structure for the senior county team, with talk of a 12 man team ready to go long before he was officially announced as manager. Smells an awful lot like BS seeded by your illustrious CB - McStay seems to have genuinely wanted to manage his native county and twice he's been told to f**k off. Few people seem to have bad words to say about McStay as a man so the idea that he was trying to milk Mayo for a load of lost personal revenue doesn't sync up at all.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 01:32:42 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
I dunno either and since McStay never disclosed what was going on, I'll probably never know. But the hoors at the top were prepared to go to almost any lengths to stop him.
Mind you, he did hint that he wasn't expecting even the courtesy of an interview when he applied last year. So whatever caused the problem had nothing to do with his application last year.
Paddy and his cohorts stopped at nothing to shoo him off the premises and this lead to one executive member resigning in protest at the shenanigans going on and the chairman having to step down when his part in the sorry process became known.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
Mac did say in an oblique way in one of his newspaper pieces that the players should be mature enough to take a bit of fair criticism in their stride but he didn't claim that any player had actually objected to anything McHale wrote. I think he was just reacting to the rumour.
So that story had to come from the CB.
Same goes for McStay's alleged shopping list.
Mike told us we'd be shocked if we found out what McStay was looking for. But he never went any further. So the rumour went out that Kdevin was looking for compensation for giving up his work with RTE and with the papers he wrote for. He was a mercenary fecker in other words.
But Roscommon had no problem with his shopping list or so it would appear. Come to think of it, Mike never told us what we would be shocked about.
I would expect Mike to do the decent thing now and consider his position. It's untenable by any standard.
He was also looking to have reform and an input into development and underage structures. Couldn t be havin that now. McStay was basically telling the board what they were doing wrong and that never goes down well. It was Paddy that ridiculed McStay and not Mike I believe Lar.
Rochford presented for interview for U21 job a few years ago and also proceeded to tell the boys what needed to be done. Needless to say he didn t get the gig either, ah ye know. At least the board is consistent. They don t like people with ideas or opinions.
You're right it was Paddy but Mike just stepped in and took up where Paddy left off. he was marching to the same tune.
He got his brother who hadn't the time to take on the job on his own and he went after a man who had already said he wasn't interested and then he presented them to the players and told them to get along and mind their own businesses.
I don't know anything about Rochford but from what I read here, he seems to be a sound man.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 01:43:44 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 01:32:42 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
I dunno either and since McStay never disclosed what was going on, I'll probably never know. But the hoors at the top were prepared to go to almost any lengths to stop him.
Mind you, he did hint that he wasn't expecting even the courtesy of an interview when he applied last year. So whatever caused the problem had nothing to do with his application last year.
Paddy and his cohorts stopped at nothing to shoo him off the premises and this lead to one executive member resigning in protest at the shenanigans going on and the chairman having to step down when his part in the sorry process became known.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
Mac did say in an oblique way in one of his newspaper pieces that the players should be mature enough to take a bit of fair criticism in their stride but he didn't claim that any player had actually objected to anything McHale wrote. I think he was just reacting to the rumour.
So that story had to come from the CB.
Same goes for McStay's alleged shopping list.
Mike told us we'd be shocked if we found out what McStay was looking for. But he never went any further. So the rumour went out that Kdevin was looking for compensation for giving up his work with RTE and with the papers he wrote for. He was a mercenary fecker in other words.
But Roscommon had no problem with his shopping list or so it would appear. Come to think of it, Mike never told us what we would be shocked about.
I would expect Mike to do the decent thing now and consider his position. It's untenable by any standard.
He was also looking to have reform and an input into development and underage structures. Couldn t be havin that now. McStay was basically telling the board what they were doing wrong and that never goes down well. It was Paddy that ridiculed McStay and not Mike I believe Lar.
Rochford presented for interview for U21 job a few years ago and also proceeded to tell the boys what needed to be done. Needless to say he didn t get the gig either, ah ye know. At least the board is consistent. They don t like people with ideas or opinions.
You're right it was Paddy but Mike just stepped in and took up where Paddy left off. he was marching to the same tune.
He got his brother who hadn't the time to take on the job on his own and he went after a man who had already said he wasn't interested and then he presented them to the players and told them to get along and mind their own businesses.
I don't know anything about Rochford but from what I read here, he seems to be a sound man.
Would Rochford really want to walk into this crock of shit? I have some sympathy all round but Mayo are 3-4 players short and no manager can arrest that deficiency. Not even Jesus Mc Guinness
Well if Mayo look 3-4 players short Kerry looked 5-7 short in the final and could have taken a trimming.
What are Mayo supposed to do? Lie down and die?
I'll take looking a few shy this year under the circumstance. Not bad at all taking into account the dysfunctional environment they were coming from.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 02:04:45 PM
Well if Mayo look 3-4 players short Kerry looked 5-7 short in the final and could have taken a trimming.
What are Mayo supposed to do? Lie down and die?
I'll take looking a few shy this year under the circumstance. Not bad at all taking into account the dysfunctional environment they were coming from.
Be careful what you wish for. James Horan is also the guy who couldn't see two Dublin players couldn't run. So it's hilarious in some respects listening to the Mayo players talking about professional environments. 2013 was lost on the line .
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2015, 02:06:46 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 02:04:45 PM
Well if Mayo look 3-4 players short Kerry looked 5-7 short in the final and could have taken a trimming.
What are Mayo supposed to do? Lie down and die?
I'll take looking a few shy this year under the circumstance. Not bad at all taking into account the dysfunctional environment they were coming from.
Be careful what you wish for. James Horan is also the guy who couldn't see two Dublin players couldn't run. So it's hilarious in some respects listening to the Mayo players talking about professional environments. 2013 was lost on the line .
So which is it?
Are we not champions because of the sideline, or because we are missing 3 - 4 players?
And what will be it be tomorrow?
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
I dunno either and since McStay never disclosed what was going on, I'll probably never know. But the hoors at the top were prepared to go to almost any lengths to stop him.
Mind you, he did hint that he wasn't expecting even the courtesy of an interview when he applied last year. So whatever caused the problem had nothing to do with his application last year.
Paddy and his cohorts stopped at nothing to shoo him off the premises and this lead to one executive member resigning in protest at the shenanigans going on and the chairman having to step down when his part in the sorry process became known.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
Mac did say in an oblique way in one of his newspaper pieces that the players should be mature enough to take a bit of fair criticism in their stride but he didn't claim that any player had actually objected to anything McHale wrote. I think he was just reacting to the rumour.
So that story had to come from the CB.
Same goes for McStay's alleged shopping list.
Mike told us we'd be shocked if we found out what McStay was looking for. But he never went any further. So the rumour went out that Kdevin was looking for compensation for giving up his work with RTE and with the papers he wrote for. He was a mercenary fecker in other words.
But Roscommon had no problem with his shopping list or so it would appear. Come to think of it, Mike never told us what we would be shocked about.
I would expect Mike to do the decent thing now and consider his position. It's untenable by any standard.
I can guarantee you we're not compensating McStay for all his lost work. In fact any word out of the Hatch seemed to suggest he was looking for the funds to set-up a professional structure for the senior county team, with talk of a 12 man team ready to go long before he was officially announced as manager. Smells an awful lot like BS seeded by your illustrious CB - McStay seems to have genuinely wanted to manage his native county and twice he's been told to f**k off. Few people seem to have bad words to say about McStay as a man so the idea that he was trying to milk Mayo for a load of lost personal revenue doesn't sync up at all.
Before you go off believing what you want to be true the reality is McStay put his cards on the table and told Mayo county board what price himself and McHale came at and it was far from cheap. His own expectation was 2.5 times what McHale was to get.
Now he goes to Roscommon and all he requests is for money to be put in place for professional structures? You have a lot of learning to catch up on.
For the record I wanted McStay to get the gig after Horan but now he is dead to me! ;)
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2015, 02:06:46 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 02:04:45 PM
Well if Mayo look 3-4 players short Kerry looked 5-7 short in the final and could have taken a trimming.
What are Mayo supposed to do? Lie down and die?
I'll take looking a few shy this year under the circumstance. Not bad at all taking into account the dysfunctional environment they were coming from.
Be careful what you wish for. James Horan is also the guy who couldn't see two Dublin players couldn't run. So it's hilarious in some respects listening to the Mayo players talking about professional environments. 2013 was lost on the line .
So which is it?
Are we not champions because of the sideline, or because we are missing 3 - 4 players?
And what will be it be tomorrow?
The Mayo players have never taken responsibility for the absolute skill-set failures under pressure since 2012. Do they have enough players with the individual skill to win an AI? No is the answer.
But they were presented in 2012 and 2013 with golden opportunities to win AI titles because superior opposition under-performed on the day and gave them the chance.
In an ideal world with every county playing to it's limit Mayo are currently in my view 3 players short. A goal-keeper, a centre back and another inside forward.
Changing management team won't change that and if it's the professionalism of the outgoing management the players are unhappy about then how could they have been happy with Horan who made several blunders on the line during his tenure . That's part of the gig too. Anyone can put a professional environment in around a team. It's what you do in that environment what counts.
It's surreal really. You're in a whole pile of trouble and the players have to produce the goods next year. Maybe it will be the making of them.
Unless I knew of the players needed to get the team over the line were easily identifiable within the county I wouldn't take it until some of the Backroom Lawyers on the panel were gone
Alan Freeman training with Vincents as well in Dublin at present.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2015, 02:06:46 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 02:04:45 PM
Well if Mayo look 3-4 players short Kerry looked 5-7 short in the final and could have taken a trimming.
What are Mayo supposed to do? Lie down and die?
I'll take looking a few shy this year under the circumstance. Not bad at all taking into account the dysfunctional environment they were coming from.
Be careful what you wish for. James Horan is also the guy who couldn't see two Dublin players couldn't run. So it's hilarious in some respects listening to the Mayo players talking about professional environments. 2013 was lost on the line .
Not wishing for James Horan myself.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
The Mayo players have never taken responsibility for the absolute skill-set failures under pressure since 2012. Do they have enough players with the individual skill to win an AI? No is the answer.
But they were presented in 2012 and 2013 with golden opportunities to win AI titles because superior opposition under-performed on the day and gave them the chance.
In an ideal world with every county playing to it's limit Mayo are currently in my view 3 players short. A goal-keeper, a centre back and another inside forward.
Changing management team won't change that and if it's the professionalism of the outgoing management the players are unhappy about then how could they have been happy with Horan who made several blunders on the line during his tenure . That's part of the gig too. Anyone can put a professional environment in around a team. It's what you do in that environment what counts.
It's surreal really. You're in a whole pile of trouble and the players have to produce the goods next year. Maybe it will be the making of them.
Unless I knew of the players needed to get the team over the line were easily identifiable within the county I wouldn't take it until some of the Backroom Lawyers on the panel were gone
Alan Freeman training with Vincents as well in Dublin at present.
Look we have not won the Big Cannister. Until we do that ye call throw all ye want at us! The greatest of lies, myths and tales can be made up and taken as being as fact as to our shortcomings! And we have to take it because we have no comeback. Be it true or just plain old myths built around stereo type cliches we just have to suck it up. In the meantime we have people from other counties telling us we should hold onto two lads not up to a job. So in other words you want us to cling onto what you've been criticising us for?
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2015, 02:06:46 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 02:04:45 PM
Well if Mayo look 3-4 players short Kerry looked 5-7 short in the final and could have taken a trimming.
What are Mayo supposed to do? Lie down and die?
I'll take looking a few shy this year under the circumstance. Not bad at all taking into account the dysfunctional environment they were coming from.
Be careful what you wish for. James Horan is also the guy who couldn't see two Dublin players couldn't run. So it's hilarious in some respects listening to the Mayo players talking about professional environments. 2013 was lost on the line .
So which is it?
Are we not champions because of the sideline, or because we are missing 3 - 4 players?
And what will be it be tomorrow?
The Mayo players have never taken responsibility for the absolute skill-set failures under pressure since 2012. Do they have enough players with the individual skill to win an AI? No is the answer.
But they were presented in 2012 and 2013 with golden opportunities to win AI titles because superior opposition under-performed on the day and gave them the chance.
In an ideal world with every county playing to it's limit Mayo are currently in my view 3 players short. A goal-keeper, a centre back and another inside forward.
Changing management team won't change that and if it's the professionalism of the outgoing management the players are unhappy about then how could they have been happy with Horan who made several blunders on the line during his tenure . That's part of the gig too. Anyone can put a professional environment in around a team. It's what you do in that environment what counts.
It's surreal really. You're in a whole pile of trouble and the players have to produce the goods next year. Maybe it will be the making of them.
Unless I knew of the players needed to get the team over the line were easily identifiable within the county I wouldn't take it until some of the Backroom Lawyers on the panel were gone
Alan Freeman training with Vincents as well in Dublin at present.
What?
They were of the opinion that they weren't happy with the current set up.
Big deal.
Get over it.
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 02:43:08 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2015, 02:06:46 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 02:04:45 PM
Well if Mayo look 3-4 players short Kerry looked 5-7 short in the final and could have taken a trimming.
What are Mayo supposed to do? Lie down and die?
I'll take looking a few shy this year under the circumstance. Not bad at all taking into account the dysfunctional environment they were coming from.
Be careful what you wish for. James Horan is also the guy who couldn't see two Dublin players couldn't run. So it's hilarious in some respects listening to the Mayo players talking about professional environments. 2013 was lost on the line .
So which is it?
Are we not champions because of the sideline, or because we are missing 3 - 4 players?
And what will be it be tomorrow?
The Mayo players have never taken responsibility for the absolute skill-set failures under pressure since 2012. Do they have enough players with the individual skill to win an AI? No is the answer.
But they were presented in 2012 and 2013 with golden opportunities to win AI titles because superior opposition under-performed on the day and gave them the chance.
In an ideal world with every county playing to it's limit Mayo are currently in my view 3 players short. A goal-keeper, a centre back and another inside forward.
Changing management team won't change that and if it's the professionalism of the outgoing management the players are unhappy about then how could they have been happy with Horan who made several blunders on the line during his tenure . That's part of the gig too. Anyone can put a professional environment in around a team. It's what you do in that environment what counts.
It's surreal really. You're in a whole pile of trouble and the players have to produce the goods next year. Maybe it will be the making of them.
Unless I knew of the players needed to get the team over the line were easily identifiable within the county I wouldn't take it until some of the Backroom Lawyers on the panel were gone
Alan Freeman training with Vincents as well in Dublin at present.
What?
They were of the opinion that they weren't happy with the current set up.
Big deal.
Get over it.
2nd best team in the country? New man has some job on his hands. That's a bad management job by any stretch.
These players have failed under pressure every time. But it's always somebody else's fault with these players.
You only have to look at the Mayo players continually kicking aimless high ball into AOS being marked by 2-3 players in the AI Semi to see this. That's not poor coaching- that's just being out of your depth as a player.
But that's the manager's fault.
Maybe you should get over that.
So do I have this right?
In 2012 they didn't have the skill set.
In 2013 they didn't have the sideline.
In 2014? [go on - you forgot the marquee forward - or maybe a defensive system]
In 2015 they were short 3 - 4 players.
And hilariously, you say the players are the ones blaming everyone else? ;D
You have done that for 3 of the last four years for them with hardly a cliché left unmolested.
They have done it once. And most Mayo supporters are happy enough with it. That speaks volumes to those who might be of a listening disposition.
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 02:58:13 PM
So do I have this right?
In 2012 they didn't have the skill set.
In 2013 they didn't have the sideline.
In 2014? [go on - you forgot the marquee forward - or maybe a defensive system]
In 2015 they were short 3 - 4 players.
And hilariously, you say the players are the ones blaming everyone else? ;D
You have done that for 3 of the last four years for them with hardly a cliché left unmolested.
They have done it once. And most Mayo supporters are happy enough with it. That speaks volumes to those who might be of a listening disposition.
You didn't have the skillset or the sideline. But according to the players it's all the sideline. Patently obvious it isn't
But please continue.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 03, 2015, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 02:58:13 PM
So do I have this right?
In 2012 they didn't have the skill set.
In 2013 they didn't have the sideline.
In 2014? [go on - you forgot the marquee forward - or maybe a defensive system]
In 2015 they were short 3 - 4 players.
And hilariously, you say the players are the ones blaming everyone else? ;D
You have done that for 3 of the last four years for them with hardly a cliché left unmolested.
They have done it once. And most Mayo supporters are happy enough with it. That speaks volumes to those who might be of a listening disposition.
You didn't have the skillset or the sideline. But according to the players it's all the sideline. Patently obvious it isn't
But please continue.
But what about the 3 - 4 players we are missing as well?
Well i say it first, Mayo wouldn't win the all-ireland next year no matter who the manager is. Been hoping they done it past number of years, was there the day they should done in back in 1996.
Two. holmes and Connelly done more for Mayo football in their time than any wannabe county man on here.
You were beat by Donegal in 2012 who had better forwards, beat by Dublin 2013/15 who had better forwards, beat by Kerry 2014 who again had better forwards.
Where the problem with Mayo lads, u blind??
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 03, 2015, 03:21:46 PM
Well i say it first, Mayo wouldn't win the all-ireland next year no matter who the manager is. Been hoping they done it past number of years, was there the day they should done in back in 1996.
Two. holmes and Connelly done more for Mayo football in their time than any wannabe county man on here.
You were beat by Donegal in 2012 who had better forwards, beat by Dublin 2013/15 who had better forwards, beat by Kerry 2014 who again had better forwards.
Where the problem with Mayo lads, u blind??
We can't go out and buy Michael Murphy or Bernard Brogan. If we could we would, but we can't. So we will work with what we have. That is the way of the GAA.
Mayo massively outscored the Kerry forwards versus the same Dublin defence this year. So much for their 'better forwards'.
We outscored Donegal against the Kerry backs last year. So much for their 'better forwards'.
There is more to football than cliches.
Why is it that people persist with these one-dimentional arguments? Is it because they heard someone else say it once and thought it sounded good? The Brolly sound-byte view of the world has done an awful lot of damage.
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 03:31:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 03, 2015, 03:21:46 PM
Well i say it first, Mayo wouldn't win the all-ireland next year no matter who the manager is. Been hoping they done it past number of years, was there the day they should done in back in 1996.
Two. holmes and Connelly done more for Mayo football in their time than any wannabe county man on here.
You were beat by Donegal in 2012 who had better forwards, beat by Dublin 2013/15 who had better forwards, beat by Kerry 2014 who again had better forwards.
Where the problem with Mayo lads, u blind??
We can't go out and buy Michael Murphy or Bernard Brogan. If we could we would, but we can't. So we will work with what we have. That is the way of the GAA.
Mayo massively outscored the Kerry forwards versus the same Dublin defence this year. So much for their 'better forwards'.
We outscored Donegal against the Kerry backs last year. So much for their 'better forwards'.
There is more to football than cliches.
Why is it that people persist with these one-dimentional arguments? Is it because they heard someone else say it once and thought it sounded good? The Brolly sound-byte view of the world has done an awful lot of damage.
The issue isn't popping over banker 21 yard frees to boost statistics - if it were, Cillian O'Connor would be a marquee forward.
The issue is not having a genius of a forward who can create or conjour a score from nowhere. Mayo haven't had that for a long time and don't have it now.
As no-one is willing to address it, you've also given Horan far too easy a ride for the 2013 AI final where we badly misfired and you'll unlikely ever have an easier chance of winning.
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 03:39:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 03:31:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 03, 2015, 03:21:46 PM
Well i say it first, Mayo wouldn't win the all-ireland next year no matter who the manager is. Been hoping they done it past number of years, was there the day they should done in back in 1996.
Two. holmes and Connelly done more for Mayo football in their time than any wannabe county man on here.
You were beat by Donegal in 2012 who had better forwards, beat by Dublin 2013/15 who had better forwards, beat by Kerry 2014 who again had better forwards.
Where the problem with Mayo lads, u blind??
We can't go out and buy Michael Murphy or Bernard Brogan. If we could we would, but we can't. So we will work with what we have. That is the way of the GAA.
Mayo massively outscored the Kerry forwards versus the same Dublin defence this year. So much for their 'better forwards'.
We outscored Donegal against the Kerry backs last year. So much for their 'better forwards'.
There is more to football than cliches.
Why is it that people persist with these one-dimentional arguments? Is it because they heard someone else say it once and thought it sounded good? The Brolly sound-byte view of the world has done an awful lot of damage.
The issue isn't popping over banker 21 yard frees to boost statistics - if it were, Cillian O'Connor would be a marquee forward.
The issue is not having a genius of a forward who can create or conjour a score from nowhere. Mayo haven't had that for a long time and don't have it now.
As no-one is willing to address it, you've also given Horan far too easy a ride for the 2013 AI final where we badly misfired and you'll unlikely ever have an easier chance of winning.
I wanted a change after that game. I was on this site, after that final, saying 2014 would be a wasted year, which it was. But so was this year.
Our problem is not with our forwards. It is us wanting them to play with no plan or system. The days of McDonald unlocking defences off the cuff are long gone.
Watch this gif a few times and you will see the difference between a plan and no plan. The irony being that in this case, the 'no plan' actually worked, because of the speed at which O'Sé got the shot away.
Please watch this a few times and watch the Donegal defenders along the blanket versus the Mayo players. The difference is stark:
http://gfycat.com/HeavyPastArcticwolf (http://gfycat.com/HeavyPastArcticwolf)
Before Seamus launched the ball in you can see the 2 Donegal defensive walls of 4 players, looking for Mayo runners. As soon as Seamus kicks it the 2nd wall of 4 turns and sprint towards their defence, leaving their men far behind. The 4 Donegal defenders (I know Neil Gallagher appears to be one of them for that play) do this instantly, so you know it is a well worked drill. They don't think, they just do it. That is the sideline at work.
But not one single Mayo forward makes a run to support Aiden. Not one. This is not down to their ability to take a point or beat a man, or skill-set as forwards, this is down to the complete lack of a plan after the ball is kicked long.
Mark McHugh's job wasn't to stop O'Sé. It was to hold him up for the 2 more seconds needed before the cavalry arrived. If he had bought those two seconds, O'Sé would have been swallowed up with no one to pass to.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 03, 2015, 03:21:46 PM
Well i say it first, Mayo wouldn't win the all-ireland next year no matter who the manager is. Been hoping they done it past number of years, was there the day they should done in back in 1996.
Two. holmes and Connelly done more for Mayo football in their time than any wannabe county man on here.
You were beat by Donegal in 2012 who had better forwards, beat by Dublin 2013/15 who had better forwards, beat by Kerry 2014 who again had better forwards.
Where the problem with Mayo lads, u blind??
No issues with the other statements about Donegal and Dublin. Just have a look at the game again highlighted in bold. Once again, I reiterate, we lost that game and no argument will stand up when you lose. You can throw any myth, lie or fairytale and it will be backed up because we lost.
Now I will whisper the following: Kerry got a free ride from the referee in the replay last year.
Quote from: fearsiuil on October 03, 2015, 02:16:57 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
I dunno either and since McStay never disclosed what was going on, I'll probably never know. But the hoors at the top were prepared to go to almost any lengths to stop him.
Mind you, he did hint that he wasn't expecting even the courtesy of an interview when he applied last year. So whatever caused the problem had nothing to do with his application last year.
Paddy and his cohorts stopped at nothing to shoo him off the premises and this lead to one executive member resigning in protest at the shenanigans going on and the chairman having to step down when his part in the sorry process became known.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
Mac did say in an oblique way in one of his newspaper pieces that the players should be mature enough to take a bit of fair criticism in their stride but he didn't claim that any player had actually objected to anything McHale wrote. I think he was just reacting to the rumour.
So that story had to come from the CB.
Same goes for McStay's alleged shopping list.
Mike told us we'd be shocked if we found out what McStay was looking for. But he never went any further. So the rumour went out that Kdevin was looking for compensation for giving up his work with RTE and with the papers he wrote for. He was a mercenary fecker in other words.
But Roscommon had no problem with his shopping list or so it would appear. Come to think of it, Mike never told us what we would be shocked about.
I would expect Mike to do the decent thing now and consider his position. It's untenable by any standard.
I can guarantee you we're not compensating McStay for all his lost work. In fact any word out of the Hatch seemed to suggest he was looking for the funds to set-up a professional structure for the senior county team, with talk of a 12 man team ready to go long before he was officially announced as manager. Smells an awful lot like BS seeded by your illustrious CB - McStay seems to have genuinely wanted to manage his native county and twice he's been told to f**k off. Few people seem to have bad words to say about McStay as a man so the idea that he was trying to milk Mayo for a load of lost personal revenue doesn't sync up at all.
Before you go off believing what you want to be true the reality is McStay put his cards on the table and told Mayo county board what price himself and McHale came at and it was far from cheap. His own expectation was 2.5 times what McHale was to get.
Now he goes to Roscommon and all he requests is for money to be put in place for professional structures? You have a lot of learning to catch up on.
For the record I wanted McStay to get the gig after Horan but now he is dead to me! ;)
McStay, like any manager at IC, will be getting some manner of sweetener for what is essentially a full-time job. I didn't say he would be getting nothing. But the idea we can match his demands (even with Mr. Mulryan on board - wasn't he belly-up himself a few years ago too?) and the Mayo CB couldn't is pretty obviously not correct. We have nothing like the resources Mayo have even now.
I have no doubt McStay demanded far more of the Mayo CB than C&H did, who clearly appeared more willing to work within constraints. But then McStay was the guy in the Horan mold that wasn't going to let the CB do a half-assed job on something that can't be half-assed if your goal is seriously to win an AI.
Maybe the bank account was and is so dry in Mayo that we somehow have more capital than ye now, but I severely doubt that is that case - much more likely the CB wanted Connelly and they were getting him no matter what McStay said or did.
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 05:07:16 PM
Maybe the bank account was and is so dry in Mayo that we somehow have more capital than ye now, but I severely doubt that is that case - much more likely the CB wanted Connelly and they were getting him no matter what McStay said or did.
Pretty sure that Croke Park are monitoring Mayo Gaa's finances very closely at the moment because of the dig-out they gave them with regards to the loan. Had heard that Mayo had limits imposed from Croke Park with regards to the numbers involved with the senior panel because of costs last year and I presume that the situation will continue for a fair while until Mayo get their finances sorted out.
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 05:07:16 PM
Quote from: fearsiuil on October 03, 2015, 02:16:57 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 03, 2015, 12:20:41 AM
Lar, in your post above, you said that H/C were only there to ''keep Mc Stay out''. Over the past 12 mths, i've heard several people say the same thing. Why is that the case? Why don't the Mayo Co Board want him? Only the other day, he said he had applied twice to manage Mayo, and accepted last year, that ''it's never going to happen'.
I dunno either and since McStay never disclosed what was going on, I'll probably never know. But the hoors at the top were prepared to go to almost any lengths to stop him.
Mind you, he did hint that he wasn't expecting even the courtesy of an interview when he applied last year. So whatever caused the problem had nothing to do with his application last year.
Paddy and his cohorts stopped at nothing to shoo him off the premises and this lead to one executive member resigning in protest at the shenanigans going on and the chairman having to step down when his part in the sorry process became known.
Where did we hear that the players didn't want Lord Liam because he wrote nasty things about them?
It certainly wasn't from any player and McStay wasn't the one to divulge it either.
Mac did say in an oblique way in one of his newspaper pieces that the players should be mature enough to take a bit of fair criticism in their stride but he didn't claim that any player had actually objected to anything McHale wrote. I think he was just reacting to the rumour.
So that story had to come from the CB.
Same goes for McStay's alleged shopping list.
Mike told us we'd be shocked if we found out what McStay was looking for. But he never went any further. So the rumour went out that Kdevin was looking for compensation for giving up his work with RTE and with the papers he wrote for. He was a mercenary fecker in other words.
But Roscommon had no problem with his shopping list or so it would appear. Come to think of it, Mike never told us what we would be shocked about.
I would expect Mike to do the decent thing now and consider his position. It's untenable by any standard.
I can guarantee you we're not compensating McStay for all his lost work. In fact any word out of the Hatch seemed to suggest he was looking for the funds to set-up a professional structure for the senior county team, with talk of a 12 man team ready to go long before he was officially announced as manager. Smells an awful lot like BS seeded by your illustrious CB - McStay seems to have genuinely wanted to manage his native county and twice he's been told to f**k off. Few people seem to have bad words to say about McStay as a man so the idea that he was trying to milk Mayo for a load of lost personal revenue doesn't sync up at all.
Before you go off believing what you want to be true the reality is McStay put his cards on the table and told Mayo county board what price himself and McHale came at and it was far from cheap. His own expectation was 2.5 times what McHale was to get.
Now he goes to Roscommon and all he requests is for money to be put in place for professional structures? You have a lot of learning to catch up on.
For the record I wanted McStay to get the gig after Horan but now he is dead to me! ;)
McStay, like any manager at IC, will be getting some manner of sweetener for what is essentially a full-time job. I didn't say he would be getting nothing. But the idea we can match his demands (even with Mr. Mulryan on board - wasn't he belly-up himself a few years ago too?) and the Mayo CB couldn't is pretty obviously not correct. We have nothing like the resources Mayo have even now.
I have no doubt McStay demanded far more of the Mayo CB than C&H did, who clearly appeared more willing to work within constraints. But then McStay was the guy in the Horan mold that wasn't going to let the CB do a half-assed job on something that can't be half-assed if your goal is seriously to win an AI.
Maybe the bank account was and is so dry in Mayo that we somehow have more capital than ye now, but I severely doubt that is that case much more likely the CB wanted Connelly and they were getting him no matter what McStay said or did.
A lot of ifs, buts, whats and maybes thrown in there along with a dose of howse-yer-father to cap it all.
Do you know what McStay's demands were and can you say that they were the same ones he is alleged to have put to the Mayo County Board?
It's a no-brainer to say that he asked more from the CB than H/C did since that pair asked for sweet FA. They were appointed on the understanding that they would work to the limits imposed by the CB.
If he only asked for a pint of Guinness, he was seeking more than the H/C since they didn't go forward for selection to begin with. Of course they were willing to dance to the CB's tune since that was the sole reason for their appointment. They didn't have to ask for anything and they knew what they were going to get.
Now if ye have nothing like the resources Mayo has even now, how come you think that somehow you hoors have more moolah than we do?
.."much more likely the CB wanted Connelly and they were getting him no matter what McStay said or did."
Where have you been, ya poor gosson, if you still don't know the score here?
Of course Mike wanted Noel even though he knew Noel couldn't find the time to do the job properly because of work commitments so the CB went after Pateen and got him to change his mind and share the load with Noel. Eeven though he had already said he wasn't interested one little bit.
Now there's one for ya; how much do you think Holmes got to make him change his mind?
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
First thing the Tanned One ever said that I could get behind ;D
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
What would you expect from the man that was pulling the strings behind the scenes all year ;) A bit of bitterness.
The man that was 'the outsider influence in the dressing room' the players were complaining about.
He's talking bollocks there. Needs to lick his wounds and step back into the shadows.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
It will leak out soon enough ladeen.
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Anyone remotely connected with football in Mayo knows the score. They just don't feel the need to post it here. :D
Other (some nearby) counties will point to this event as exactly how to go about dealing with this type of problem.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Did you not read my previous post. He was the one advising Pat and Nole. He knew exactly what was going on. He had input.
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 10:00:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
It will leak out soon enough ladeen.
It's out there already!
Stuart Lancaster available as of about a half hour ago, he will suit ye, likes spending money and talking s.....
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Did you not read my previous post. He was the one advising Pat and Nole. He knew exactly what was going on. He had input.
John Maughan needs to get out a bit more. He obviously didn't stray too far from his mates on the county board when discussing this.
Quote from: Chimley on October 03, 2015, 10:26:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Did you not read my previous post. He was the one advising Pat and Nole. He knew exactly what was going on. He had input.
John Maughan needs to get out a bit more. He obviously didn't stray too far from his mates on the county board when discussing this.
Won't the Tanned One be coaching the brother of one of the chief instigators of the 2015 Mayo Massacre at U21 next year too? Nevermind a few more of the current senior Mayo panel..
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
No but clubmates and personal friends of Pateen especially. This nonsense is a loads of bollocks as regards the reactionary shite from Carney and Maughan.
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 10:29:06 PM
Quote from: Chimley on October 03, 2015, 10:26:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Did you not read my previous post. He was the one advising Pat and Nole. He knew exactly what was going on. He had input.
John Maughan needs to get out a bit more. He obviously didn't stray too far from his mates on the county board when discussing this.
Won't the Tanned One be coaching the brother of one of the chief instigators of the 2015 Mayo Massacre at U21 next year too? Nevermind a few more of the current senior Mayo panel..
Sir John will have no problem changing tack and finding a new hymn sheet if it is in his best interest to do so.
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 10:29:06 PM
Quote from: Chimley on October 03, 2015, 10:26:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Did you not read my previous post. He was the one advising Pat and Nole. He knew exactly what was going on. He had input.
John Maughan needs to get out a bit more. He obviously didn't stray too far from his mates on the county board when discussing this.
Won't the Tanned One be coaching the brother of one of the chief instigators of the 2015 Mayo Massacre at U21 next year too? Nevermind a few more of the current senior Mayo panel..
Another year of failure in store at u21 awaits. Can't see how Maughan will garner support from players given his stance on this.
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Off with ye lads. There's another heather fire beyond ye might want to stick yer noses into.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Never realised Mayo players were held in such contempt by neutrals - not that it matters a fcku.
Never realised either that Pat and Nole were so highly regarded. Their phones must be hoppin from counties still without a manager for next year. They should be a major coup? They ll be snapped up right away I d say. What do you think Lar?
The Connellys have been attempting to orchestrate their influence within Mayo GAA leadership positions for nigh on 20 years.
The sooner these losers disappear the better for all concerned, the events leading up to last years appointment meant this was only going to end one way.
Of all the crazy postings on this topic the above one is the most ridiculous and it does not come from either Syferus or Indiana which is saying something
Lave poor oul Syfín alone.
The poor eejitín is still in shock over the wheels coming off his Brigid's bandwagon. ;D
Meanwhile Anthony Cunningham about to be gutted in Herrinland.
Neighbours giving great entertainment these days.
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Never realised Mayo players were held in such contempt by neutrals - not that it matters a fcku.
Never realised either that Pat and Nole were so highly regarded. Their phones must be hoppin from counties still without a manager for next year. They should be a major coup? They ll be snapped up right away I d say. What do you think Lar?
I think Pateen and Noel should do a damage limitation exercise and back away quietly and leave the whole sorry mess with the CB. They have shown more dignity in their leaving than they did in their coming. Pity the same can't be said for Mike and his buddies. Anyone on here who thinks any self-respecting Mayo fan will give even one flying f**k about what Carney, Maughan or any of the pro-establishment brigade wants to say should go and see a shrink. Their day has come and gone.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 11:49:15 PM
Lave poor oul Syfín alone.
The poor eejitín is still in shock over the wheels coming off his Brigid's bandwagon. ;D
Meanwhile Anthony Cunningham about to be gutted in Herrinland.
Neighbours giving great entertainment these days.
I suppose after the John Evans sideshow and the Eamon O'Hara Tan-gate, it was inevitable that there would be other counties getting on the train! What about poor Leitrim?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 04, 2015, 12:13:38 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 11:49:15 PM
Lave poor oul Syfín alone.
The poor eejitín is still in shock over the wheels coming off his Brigid's bandwagon. ;D
Meanwhile Anthony Cunningham about to be gutted in Herrinland.
Neighbours giving great entertainment these days.
I suppose after the John Evans sideshow and the Eamon O'Hara Tan-gate, it was inevitable that there would be other counties getting on the train! What about poor Leitrim?
Who?
Quote from: Syferus on October 04, 2015, 12:15:03 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 04, 2015, 12:13:38 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 11:49:15 PM
Lave poor oul Syfín alone.
The poor eejitín is still in shock over the wheels coming off his Brigid's bandwagon. ;D
Meanwhile Anthony Cunningham about to be gutted in Herrinland.
Neighbours giving great entertainment these days.
I suppose after the John Evans sideshow and the Eamon O'Hara Tan-gate, it was inevitable that there would be other counties getting on the train! What about poor Leitrim?
Who?
That's just nasty!!!
Maybe Kevin Mc Stay could find a position for Anthony Cunningham in his back room team. His name was actually rumoured in Ros about 3 weeks ago. He's an ex Brigid's manager, and was at the Ros semi finals last weekend.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2015, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Never realised Mayo players were held in such contempt by neutrals - not that it matters a fcku.
Never realised either that Pat and Nole were so highly regarded. Their phones must be hoppin from counties still without a manager for next year. They should be a major coup? They ll be snapped up right away I d say. What do you think Lar?
I think Pateen and Noel should do a damage limitation exercise and back away quietly and leave the whole sorry mess with the CB. They have shown more dignity in their leaving than they did in their coming. Pity the same can't be said for Mike and his buddies. Anyone on here who thinks any self-respecting Mayo fan will give even one flying f**k about what Carney, Maughan or any of the pro-establishment brigade wants to say should go and see a shrink. Their day has come and gone.
Agree but not the point I was trying to make.
Just wondering if all these neutrals that think that Pat and Nole did great this year would welcome them with open arms in their own fiefdom? Surely such great management talent will not be idle for long. These neutrals cant have our dysfunctional and uppity players. But our brilliant management duo (they get 2 good ones) are there to be snapped up. No doubt likes of Tyrone are kicking themselves for hastily reappointing Mickey before our duo became available. Have Cork sorted themselves out?
I say Holmes and Connelly have done more for Mayo football than the number of posters on here, when the hell did any of you even step up for the good of Mayo football, Maughan and McHale too, who get regularly bad mouthed by Mayo Supporters.
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:27:35 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2015, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Never realised Mayo players were held in such contempt by neutrals - not that it matters a fcku.
Never realised either that Pat and Nole were so highly regarded. Their phones must be hoppin from counties still without a manager for next year. They should be a major coup? They ll be snapped up right away I d say. What do you think Lar?
I think Pateen and Noel should do a damage limitation exercise and back away quietly and leave the whole sorry mess with the CB. They have shown more dignity in their leaving than they did in their coming. Pity the same can't be said for Mike and his buddies. Anyone on here who thinks any self-respecting Mayo fan will give even one flying f**k about what Carney, Maughan or any of the pro-establishment brigade wants to say should go and see a shrink. Their day has come and gone.
Agree but not the point I was trying to make.
Just wondering if all these neutrals that think that Pat and Nole did great this year would welcome them with open arms in their own fiefdom? Surely such great management talent will not be idle for long. These neutrals cant have our dysfunctional and uppity players. But our brilliant management duo (they get 2 good ones) are there to be snapped up. No doubt likes of Tyrone are kicking themselves for hastily reappointing Mickey before our duo became available. Have Cork sorted themselves out?
OTT Moy, those two have given more to Mayo football than any of the players have and deserve more respect than you're giving them. Maybe shouldn't have taken the job in the beginning but the Mayo players likewise don't come out of this looking like heroes either. We'll see next year if their hubris exceeded C&H's.
This team didn't deliver in the past but by their actions in the last few weeks they've called their shot for 2016 and they will be on the end of serious abuse next year if it turns out the management wasn't the key reason behind their failure.
A lot of unfair comments here on C and H.In the end they done the right thing and moved on.Anybody who says that Mayo need to win the all ireland next year to justify the players stance is way off base.All the players want is the best preparation possible to give them the greatest chance of winning Sam and if they are unable to succeed in this goal then so be it ,they were not good enough but at least there was no stone left unturned in trying to reach that goal.
Quote from: Syferus on October 04, 2015, 12:36:40 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:27:35 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2015, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Never realised Mayo players were held in such contempt by neutrals - not that it matters a fcku.
Never realised either that Pat and Nole were so highly regarded. Their phones must be hoppin from counties still without a manager for next year. They should be a major coup? They ll be snapped up right away I d say. What do you think Lar?
I think Pateen and Noel should do a damage limitation exercise and back away quietly and leave the whole sorry mess with the CB. They have shown more dignity in their leaving than they did in their coming. Pity the same can't be said for Mike and his buddies. Anyone on here who thinks any self-respecting Mayo fan will give even one flying f**k about what Carney, Maughan or any of the pro-establishment brigade wants to say should go and see a shrink. Their day has come and gone.
Agree but not the point I was trying to make.
Just wondering if all these neutrals that think that Pat and Nole did great this year would welcome them with open arms in their own fiefdom? Surely such great management talent will not be idle for long. These neutrals cant have our dysfunctional and uppity players. But our brilliant management duo (they get 2 good ones) are there to be snapped up. No doubt likes of Tyrone are kicking themselves for hastily reappointing Mickey before our duo became available. Have Cork sorted themselves out?
OTT Moy, those two have given more to Mayo football than any of the players have and deserve more respect than you're giving them. Maybe shouldn't have taken the job in the beginning but the Mayo players likewise don't come out of this looking like heroes either. We'll see next year if their hubris exceeded C&H's.
This team didn't deliver in the past but by their actions in the last few weeks they've called their shot for 2016 and they will be on the end of serious abuse next year if it turns out the management wasn't the key reason behind their failure.
You have got to be takin the piss. Will ye quit spinning shite. H&C are no victims. They got great opportunity in Mayo both as players and having doors open after as managers even though it was obvious they had little enough qualities to do the job. Most Mayo supporters as well would say we had better options at 5 and 7 as well in 96/97 but Sir John had his favourites and he was still holding their hands this Summer.
I know ye ve got Batman and Robin but would Roscommon be queueing up for H&C now if ye we're'nt sorted? Be honest now.
All jokin aside but wouldn't at least 26 Counties love to have as bad a team as Mayowestros.
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:57:38 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 04, 2015, 12:36:40 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:27:35 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2015, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Never realised Mayo players were held in such contempt by neutrals - not that it matters a fcku.
Never realised either that Pat and Nole were so highly regarded. Their phones must be hoppin from counties still without a manager for next year. They should be a major coup? They ll be snapped up right away I d say. What do you think Lar?
I think Pateen and Noel should do a damage limitation exercise and back away quietly and leave the whole sorry mess with the CB. They have shown more dignity in their leaving than they did in their coming. Pity the same can't be said for Mike and his buddies. Anyone on here who thinks any self-respecting Mayo fan will give even one flying f**k about what Carney, Maughan or any of the pro-establishment brigade wants to say should go and see a shrink. Their day has come and gone.
Agree but not the point I was trying to make.
Just wondering if all these neutrals that think that Pat and Nole did great this year would welcome them with open arms in their own fiefdom? Surely such great management talent will not be idle for long. These neutrals cant have our dysfunctional and uppity players. But our brilliant management duo (they get 2 good ones) are there to be snapped up. No doubt likes of Tyrone are kicking themselves for hastily reappointing Mickey before our duo became available. Have Cork sorted themselves out?
OTT Moy, those two have given more to Mayo football than any of the players have and deserve more respect than you're giving them. Maybe shouldn't have taken the job in the beginning but the Mayo players likewise don't come out of this looking like heroes either. We'll see next year if their hubris exceeded C&H's.
This team didn't deliver in the past but by their actions in the last few weeks they've called their shot for 2016 and they will be on the end of serious abuse next year if it turns out the management wasn't the key reason behind their failure.
You have got to be takin the piss. Will ye quit spinning shite. H&C are no victims. They got great opportunity in Mayo both as players and having doors open after as managers even though it was obvious they had little enough qualities to do the job. Most Mayo supporters as well would say we had better options at 5 and 7 as well in 96/97 but Sir John had his favourites and he was still holding their hands this Summer.
I know ye ve got Batman and Robin but would Roscommon be queueing up for H&C now if ye we're'nt sorted? Be honest now.
They were in the running when Des Newton got called up to the big leagues I think, or when Evans was appointed. Still better than the former, maybe worse than the later but I rate Evans as a manager. I think trying to say they were hopeless is unfair, both had success at underage and club respectively. Seeing as McStay wasn't wanted who else was there really Moy? Rochford wasn't on the radar last year. Enda Gilvarry?
Quote from: Syferus on October 04, 2015, 01:07:08 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:57:38 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 04, 2015, 12:36:40 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:27:35 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2015, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Never realised Mayo players were held in such contempt by neutrals - not that it matters a fcku.
Never realised either that Pat and Nole were so highly regarded. Their phones must be hoppin from counties still without a manager for next year. They should be a major coup? They ll be snapped up right away I d say. What do you think Lar?
I think Pateen and Noel should do a damage limitation exercise and back away quietly and leave the whole sorry mess with the CB. They have shown more dignity in their leaving than they did in their coming. Pity the same can't be said for Mike and his buddies. Anyone on here who thinks any self-respecting Mayo fan will give even one flying f**k about what Carney, Maughan or any of the pro-establishment brigade wants to say should go and see a shrink. Their day has come and gone.
Agree but not the point I was trying to make.
Just wondering if all these neutrals that think that Pat and Nole did great this year would welcome them with open arms in their own fiefdom? Surely such great management talent will not be idle for long. These neutrals cant have our dysfunctional and uppity players. But our brilliant management duo (they get 2 good ones) are there to be snapped up. No doubt likes of Tyrone are kicking themselves for hastily reappointing Mickey before our duo became available. Have Cork sorted themselves out?
OTT Moy, those two have given more to Mayo football than any of the players have and deserve more respect than you're giving them. Maybe shouldn't have taken the job in the beginning but the Mayo players likewise don't come out of this looking like heroes either. We'll see next year if their hubris exceeded C&H's.
This team didn't deliver in the past but by their actions in the last few weeks they've called their shot for 2016 and they will be on the end of serious abuse next year if it turns out the management wasn't the key reason behind their failure.
You have got to be takin the piss. Will ye quit spinning shite. H&C are no victims. They got great opportunity in Mayo both as players and having doors open after as managers even though it was obvious they had little enough qualities to do the job. Most Mayo supporters as well would say we had better options at 5 and 7 as well in 96/97 but Sir John had his favourites and he was still holding their hands this Summer.
I know ye ve got Batman and Robin but would Roscommon be queueing up for H&C now if ye we're'nt sorted? Be honest now.
They were in the running when Des Newton got called up to the big leagues I think, or when Evans was appointed. Still better than the former, maybe worse than the later but I rate Evans as a manager. I think trying to say they were hopeless is unfair, both had success at underage and club respectively. Seeing as McStay wasn't wanted who else was there really Moy? Rochford wasn't on the radar last year. Enda Gilvarry?
Des Newton was preferred and he lasted how long??
When is the penny going to drop with some of ye guys? That story was not about McStay. Even on the Sunday Game when he announced his intention to apply he looked like he knew it was a waste of time. But fair play to him. By doing that he helped show up the rotten underbelly of the cartel that run the show.
I ll ask you again. If H&C are such great managers, will they be approached to take over other county teams any time soon?
They won Mayo a 5 in a row and ran the eventual AI winners to a replay. Surely likes of Meath, Down, Derry and Cork would love some of these guys. How come Holmes never managed a county team after winning a national league back in 2001? What happened there?
Anthony Cunningham could be available. Got Garrycastle to within an inch of winning an AI club title!
Now that would be a story?
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 04, 2015, 02:15:16 AM
Anthony Cunningham could be available. Got Garrycastle to within an inch of winning an AI club title!
Now that would be a story?
Doubt it. Walsh will be there for another year anyway ;)
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 04, 2015, 02:15:16 AM
Anthony Cunningham could be available. Got Garrycastle to within an inch of winning an AI club title!
Now that would be a story?
I'm sure McStay can find a role for him in his home county.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 04, 2015, 02:15:16 AM
Anthony Cunningham could be available. Got Garrycastle to within an inch of winning an AI club title!
Now that would be a story?
Yeah, he certainly wouldn't be facing a black and amber striped team in the football championship!!
If Horan steps back into this gig it's going to reek even more than it does already.
Great post Lar.Its not about the next manager winning an all Ireland but giving them the best chance to do so and everything else is just spin.
Quote from: maigheo on October 04, 2015, 02:32:17 PM
Great post Lar.Its not about the next manager winning an all Ireland but giving them the best chance to do so and everything else is just spin.
You have to have the players as well. Players may find in 12 months time it's them that's lacking
Interesting article in today's S Independent by Damian Lawlor on this matter..First time to hear that Mayo's game plan and tactical notes on Dublin were left behind at the team hotel, when Mayo had presumably gone to Croke Park for the match...We all know about the secret players meeting where the vote of 27-7 took place.. But here's a question. If it's true that Keegan, A Moran, Parsons and Ronaldson were part of the 7, and the vote/meeting was secret, how did these names get out in public?
Quote from: INDIANA on October 04, 2015, 02:33:58 PM
Quote from: maigheo on October 04, 2015, 02:32:17 PM
Great post Lar.Its not about the next manager winning an all Ireland but giving them the best chance to do so and everything else is just spin.
You have to have the players as well. Players may find in 12 months time it's them that's lacking
But you have to have a top class manager or else it's all pointless. Mayo can't magic up these mythical top class forwards you speak of. They can improve their management set up.
Look at what Gilroy did with a lot of Caffreys players, he transformed them, taught them humility and manners. He developed a good defensive system. Yes the standard of player has improved since but Gilroy got more out of a similar bunch of players than Caffrey. Mayo want the same, at the very least they need someone as good as Horan was. It won't guarantee an All Ireland but it gives them a better, genuine chance. If rumours are true that Buckley was the glue holding the whole thing together this year then that was going to catch up with everyone next year as tensions were just too fraught in the end.
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:57:38 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 04, 2015, 12:36:40 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:27:35 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2015, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Never realised Mayo players were held in such contempt by neutrals - not that it matters a fcku.
Never realised either that Pat and Nole were so highly regarded. Their phones must be hoppin from counties still without a manager for next year. They should be a major coup? They ll be snapped up right away I d say. What do you think Lar?
I think Pateen and Noel should do a damage limitation exercise and back away quietly and leave the whole sorry mess with the CB. They have shown more dignity in their leaving than they did in their coming. Pity the same can't be said for Mike and his buddies. Anyone on here who thinks any self-respecting Mayo fan will give even one flying f**k about what Carney, Maughan or any of the pro-establishment brigade wants to say should go and see a shrink. Their day has come and gone.
Agree but not the point I was trying to make.
Just wondering if all these neutrals that think that Pat and Nole did great this year would welcome them with open arms in their own fiefdom? Surely such great management talent will not be idle for long. These neutrals cant have our dysfunctional and uppity players. But our brilliant management duo (they get 2 good ones) are there to be snapped up. No doubt likes of Tyrone are kicking themselves for hastily reappointing Mickey before our duo became available. Have Cork sorted themselves out?
OTT Moy, those two have given more to Mayo football than any of the players have and deserve more respect than you're giving them. Maybe shouldn't have taken the job in the beginning but the Mayo players likewise don't come out of this looking like heroes either. We'll see next year if their hubris exceeded C&H's.
This team didn't deliver in the past but by their actions in the last few weeks they've called their shot for 2016 and they will be on the end of serious abuse next year if it turns out the management wasn't the key reason behind their failure.
You have got to be takin the piss. Will ye quit spinning shite. H&C are no victims. They got great opportunity in Mayo both as players and having doors open after as managers even though it was obvious they had little enough qualities to do the job. Most Mayo supporters as well would say we had better options at 5 and 7 as well in 96/97 but Sir John had his favourites and he was still holding their hands this Summer.
I know ye ve got Batman and Robin but would Roscommon be queueing up for H&C now if ye we're'nt sorted? Be honest now.
Moysider, you either weren't born or weren't following Mayo football to post such utter shite as you just did in regard to H+C playing in 1996. If each and every Mayo player of the era were asked who the most influential Mayo player was that year the answer would be unanimously Noel Connelly. Time and time again he set the tone on the field. Holmes won an All Star that year too and it wasn't Maughan that picked him. It would also be difficult to describe Maughan as a "County Board Patsy" given his record of run-ins with the CB over the years. If he is guilty of anything it is loyalty to his mates .. hardly the worst trait in the world. All three have given a lifetime of service to their county and clubs and don't deserve the bile you continuously spout. This is just a discussion board. The fact that you post more frequently on Mayo matters than most doesn't make you any better informed than the rest of us. You wouldn't lace the boots of those you disparage so easily.
Quote from: mrhardyannual on October 04, 2015, 04:33:20 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:57:38 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 04, 2015, 12:36:40 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2015, 12:27:35 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 04, 2015, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 03, 2015, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 03, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on October 03, 2015, 07:59:10 PM
I have to say there are some amount of "Knowledgeable" people from around the country on the inner workings of the county board and even more future intercounty managers who will be pacing the sidelines of Croke Park in the near future...Anyway, Mike Finnerty and John Maughan had a polite but narky enough chat about the weeks events on radio 1 earlier..Maughan reckons not one supporter he has spoken to all week had backed the players, also he reckoned that there was never a problem in the set up, in fact it was never better over the past few years. Then the " two or three" troublemakers in the dressing room was mentioned, who's agenda was he serving today I wonder?
The plot thickens?
How so?
John Maughan isn't some Joe Blog, he is a well respected former Mayo player and manager and with his contacts within he would have a fair idea of what was going on behind scenes.
Why haven't we got any details on the alleged preparation issues from this year?
No need. Why on earth would anyone make it public?
To quote Get Loughnane, I wouldn't even give ye the time of the throw in.
Coup over. Off with ye to the Galway hurlers thread.
There are lots of respected Mayo figures casting doubt on the accuracy of the claims.
Are they all CB patsies?
Indeed, please enlighten me.
When did you last see a "respected Mayo" figure? We just don't do respect down in God's Acre; it doesn't go with the psyche, ya know.
If twenty seven players do a rare up and tell their "respected" managers to f**k off and then all barge in on a meeting with "respected" members of the county board who are running around like headless quickens and give them just 10 minutes to sort themselves out, what sort of "respected" figure can change the facts?
You have been given the reasons, time and time again, why this setup was always going to end in handbags at dawn. So forget the conspiracy theorists, they know sweet |FA more than anyone with half an interest in the Mayo scene. This parting of the way was on since that pair took on the job- maybe not all their fault but they should have known better.
Never realised Mayo players were held in such contempt by neutrals - not that it matters a fcku.
Never realised either that Pat and Nole were so highly regarded. Their phones must be hoppin from counties still without a manager for next year. They should be a major coup? They ll be snapped up right away I d say. What do you think Lar?
I think Pateen and Noel should do a damage limitation exercise and back away quietly and leave the whole sorry mess with the CB. They have shown more dignity in their leaving than they did in their coming. Pity the same can't be said for Mike and his buddies. Anyone on here who thinks any self-respecting Mayo fan will give even one flying f**k about what Carney, Maughan or any of the pro-establishment brigade wants to say should go and see a shrink. Their day has come and gone.
Agree but not the point I was trying to make.
Just wondering if all these neutrals that think that Pat and Nole did great this year would welcome them with open arms in their own fiefdom? Surely such great management talent will not be idle for long. These neutrals cant have our dysfunctional and uppity players. But our brilliant management duo (they get 2 good ones) are there to be snapped up. No doubt likes of Tyrone are kicking themselves for hastily reappointing Mickey before our duo became available. Have Cork sorted themselves out?
OTT Moy, those two have given more to Mayo football than any of the players have and deserve more respect than you're giving them. Maybe shouldn't have taken the job in the beginning but the Mayo players likewise don't come out of this looking like heroes either. We'll see next year if their hubris exceeded C&H's.
This team didn't deliver in the past but by their actions in the last few weeks they've called their shot for 2016 and they will be on the end of serious abuse next year if it turns out the management wasn't the key reason behind their failure.
You have got to be takin the piss. Will ye quit spinning shite. H&C are no victims. They got great opportunity in Mayo both as players and having doors open after as managers even though it was obvious they had little enough qualities to do the job. Most Mayo supporters as well would say we had better options at 5 and 7 as well in 96/97 but Sir John had his favourites and he was still holding their hands this Summer.
I know ye ve got Batman and Robin but would Roscommon be queueing up for H&C now if ye we're'nt sorted? Be honest now.
Moysider, you either weren't born or weren't following Mayo football to post such utter shite as you just did in regard to H+C playing in 1996. If each and every Mayo player of the era were asked who the most influential Mayo player was that year the answer would be unanimously Noel Connelly. Time and time again he set the tone on the field. Holmes won an All Star that year too and it wasn't Maughan that picked him. It would also be difficult to describe Maughan as a "County Board Patsy" given his record of run-ins with the CB over the years. If he is guilty of anything it is loyalty to his mates .. hardly the worst trait in the world. All three have given a lifetime of service to their county and clubs and don't deserve the bile you continuously spout. This is just a discussion board. The fact that you post more frequently on Mayo matters than most doesn't make you any better informed than the rest of us. You wouldn't lace the boots of those you disparage so easily.
The more I read about this and including Irish independent article, the more apparent it becomes that players deserved a lot better.
You may criticize Moysider, but he is articulating what a lot of people are thinking.
I feel that H&C both put their time in with Mayo playing football and like any man who represented Mayo that should never be forgotten. However their move into management of a seasoned mayo team looks to have be ill timed or ill advised.
I have no problem with criticism of management or players as long as it's not personal. Moysider is entitled to his views on H+C as managers and many/most might agree. He goes off the reservation when he announces that most Mayo supporters in 1996 felt that we had two better half wing backs than H+C and that they were only there as pals of Maughan. Also opinion was evenly divided a year ago between McStay/McHale and H+C for management. Both had managed Mayo at U21 level with H+C winning an All Ireland. McStay had won Club All Ireland with Brigids while Holmes had taken Cbar to the final. Player objections to McHale were not just "County Board" spin ... they were as well known as were player unhappiness with the outgoing management and indeed with Micky Moran in his day.
All have the best interests of Mayo at heart. Its a pity that things come to this. Mike Connelly was in a difficult position when his brother was appointed as manager. In hindsight he might not have taken the Chair and he should certainly not have been the liason between CB and Board. But he still give selflessly of his time and energy which is something that doesn't deserve to be sneered at from the anonymity of a discussion board especially since he was just back from a life threatening illness.
Truth be told Joemamas, there's no-one listening to us here but ourselves... but that's no reason for ignorance.
If you are one of the 28 who turned up to address the county board, does the new man have to keep you on the panel?
The whole episode reflects poorly on the players. No matter what grievance they have. They were beaten in another replayed All Ireland Semi Final when they were in a winning position to drive on to the Final. Same as last year. Under different management.
Now you can justifiably reference poor tactical nous on the sideline in both years. But that's football. You go with a plan and it doesn't always work out.
I heard Maughan on the radio yesterday and he gave his opinion. Never liked him personally but I thought here we go again. In all these player / manager disputes the presenters come across all guns blazing in favour of the players - sickening how fawning they are in there support.
Only real option I see for Mayo now is for Horan to reach the reigns BUT it will be a poisoned chalice for him now as he MUST win the All Ireland or he is the problem....
It's a shame to see this happen and a shame to see the character assignation that goes on on these boards. Everyone involved is giving more than any poster here and for nothing only guaranteed abuse!
Summed up pretty well here;
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/damian-lawlor-shambolic-appointment-process-sowed-seeds-of-discontent-in-mayo-31580050.html
I hope no Mayo poster here ever has the brass balls to comment on the Dublin back room team again
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/damian-lawlor-shambolic-appointment-process-sowed-seeds-of-discontent-in-mayo-31580050.html
"squad players were not allowed travel on match days, yet the 24-strong backroom staff were"
Brendan Rodgers is free now lads....
Quote from: Mrs mills on October 04, 2015, 07:49:28 PM
If you are one of the 28 who turned up to address the county board, does the new man have to keep you on the panel?
what happens if you were one of the 24 backroom team? Did they turn up too?
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-mayo-mutiny-prompts-the-question-of-whos-dictating-the-search-for-new-boss-31582099.html
"We know that largely the same Mayo panel have taken part in seven All-Ireland semi-finals in the past five years and managed to win just two. They have played in two All-Ireland finals and lost both, which means that out of nine high-grade national competition games Mayo have won TWO and failed to win SEVEN.
Never in the history of the GAA has a county played in as many semi-finals and finals over such a condensed period without winning even one All-Ireland. It is important to stress this fact, and the recent history of Mayo, in order to put in context what has led up to these latest developments."
On
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-talks-to-paul-kimmage-i-find-it-hard-to-think-of-myself-as-anything-other-than-ordinary-31454305.htmle of McGee's insights I really like is the following :
EMcG: A lot of the matches are shite, but the worst of all is having to write the column in wintertime. I sit down every Saturday night and say, 'What am I going to write here?'. I'm 30 years writing columns now, for God's sake! And some of the stuff I write on Monday is pure shite."
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2015, 10:57:01 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-mayo-mutiny-prompts-the-question-of-whos-dictating-the-search-for-new-boss-31582099.html
"We know that largely the same Mayo panel have taken part in seven All-Ireland semi-finals in the past five years and managed to win just two. They have played in two All-Ireland finals and lost both, which means that out of nine high-grade national competition games Mayo have won TWO and failed to win SEVEN.
Never in the history of the GAA has a county played in as many semi-finals and finals over such a condensed period without winning even one All-Ireland. It is important to stress this fact, and the recent history of Mayo, in order to put in context what has led up to these latest developments."
On
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-talks-to-paul-kimmage-i-find-it-hard-to-think-of-myself-as-anything-other-than-ordinary-31454305.htmle of McGee's insights I really like is the following :
EMcG: A lot of the matches are shite, but the worst of all is having to write the column in wintertime. I sit down every Saturday night and say, 'What am I going to write here?'. I'm 30 years writing columns now, for God's sake! And some of the stuff I write on Monday is pure shite."
Galway have failed to win a Connacht title in SEVEN years! They have beaten Leitrim and New York this year! London and Sligo the year before. No one the year before that (I wont mention what Mayo beat ye by). Roscommon the year before that and lost to Sligo. No one the year before that. New York the year before that before losing to Sligo. Ye beat London and Sligo the year before that.
Jesus I look at us and then I look at ye and it's a different world! :-\
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2015, 10:57:01 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-mayo-mutiny-prompts-the-question-of-whos-dictating-the-search-for-new-boss-31582099.html
"We know that largely the same Mayo panel have taken part in seven All-Ireland semi-finals in the past five years and managed to win just two. They have played in two All-Ireland finals and lost both, which means that out of nine high-grade national competition games Mayo have won TWO and failed to win SEVEN.
Never in the history of the GAA has a county played in as many semi-finals and finals over such a condensed period without winning even one All-Ireland. It is important to stress this fact, and the recent history of Mayo, in order to put in context what has led up to these latest developments."
On
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-talks-to-paul-kimmage-i-find-it-hard-to-think-of-myself-as-anything-other-than-ordinary-31454305.htmle of McGee's insights I really like is the following :
EMcG: A lot of the matches are shite, but the worst of all is having to write the column in wintertime. I sit down every Saturday night and say, 'What am I going to write here?'. I'm 30 years writing columns now, for God's sake! And some of the stuff I write on Monday is pure shite."
I know that McGee is gospel with a lot of football people. But he's a gobshite of the highest order imo. Same Mayo panel my hole. It doesn t matter a damn. He was shafting us in 00s, 90s, and 80s as well. He was even 'nasty' about Mayo players that played for him and won him Sigersons back in the 70's. f**k him.
How long before Horan's reappointed? If/when he returns, things could be different from before. It's like reuniting with an ex girlfriend. Somehow, it never seems the same, second time around.
Plenty to say in the western today ;)
What did he have to say Mick?
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 06, 2015, 12:28:10 AM
Plenty to say in the western today ;)
Balanced presentation overall in Western today. Deliberate imo. John Maughan was ultra Management and Hennigan questioned players stance. The editor put the blame firmly on the Board. Gallagher was philosophical and did his job but probably knows more than most. Horan was the height of being realistic.
Surprised by Maughan's reactionary stance ( even if he is mates with H&C). He obviously has no wish to manage this team after that.
Quote from: moysider on October 06, 2015, 12:50:57 AM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 06, 2015, 12:28:10 AM
Plenty to say in the western today ;)
Balanced presentation overall in Western today. Deliberate imo. John Maughan was ultra Management and Hennigan questioned players stance. The editor put the blame firmly on the Board. Gallagher was philosophical and did his job but probably knows more than most. Horan was the height of being realistic.
Surprised by Maughan's reactionary stance ( even if he is mates with H&C). He obviously has no wish to manage this team after that.
After listening to radio replay from Saturday, your last line was first thing that came into my head.
Thankfully he will not be manager for quite a while.
He'll probably get the u21 gig though >:(
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 06, 2015, 12:24:55 AM
How long before Horan's reappointed? If/when he returns, things could be different from before. It's like reuniting with an ex girlfriend. Somehow, it never seems the same, second time around.
Aye no messing straight to the point.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 06, 2015, 06:40:09 AM
He'll probably get the u21 gig though >:(
Why wouldn't he get the U-21 job. Surely he is the best qualified of the three candidates proposed?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 06, 2015, 06:40:09 AM
He'll probably get the u21 gig though >:(
That will be a disaster for our prospects. Can't see any of the senior panellists wanting to play for him and probably many more than that too.
I'm going way against my better judgement by referring to McGee and anything he writes but since was he has to say is more or less what the anti—players brigade are putting out, I think this article needs to be challenged.
He may not be much of an investigative journalist but, as a creative one, he's way out there in front of the rest.
For instance, before he got steam up, this was his second paragraph:
"Here we have an unelected body of GAA people undermining the authority of the Mayo county board by ousting their managers. And to add insult to injury they did not apparently have the courtesy to inform the managers, the county board, nor the Mayo GAA supporters of the reasons for their behaviour."
The tension began when the appointment of Connelly and Holmes was announced.
They were not selected using the democratic process that CB had pledged to operate.
The board did not follow its own guidelines when handing the job to the two boys. Note the word "apparently." He hadn't a clue of what had happened yet he went on to write about 20 more paragraphs attacking the players' stance.
He assumes a lot here:
"With no information coming from the Mayo players recently we are entitled to accept that they believe it is the managements of the teams in this period that are responsible for their catalogue of failure and, by definition, that must mean that the players themselves believe they are not the cause of the failures."
He's entitled to believe sweet FA if he doesn't make any attempt to find out if what he says is true or not.
Damian Lawlor's article in the Sindo the day before had described what really took place.
Pat and Noel knew days before the story broke that the players were unhappy with their performance but they still refused to resign. They could have walked away with the general public unaware of their reasons but they decided not to. Hence, the public row,
which was not what the players were looking for.
Colm O'Rourke was nearly as bad. He two posed two questions in the Sindo ; "Could the management be blamed for Keith Higgins, the best Mayo player of his era, getting scorched by Paddy Andrews...Or Aidan O'Shea not performing in two big games."
Of course the managers were to blame, how could it be otherwise?
It was up to them to see what was happening on the field and to make substitutions or positional changes or whatever if they saw things were going wrong. Who the hell else had the responsibility to do so?
I couldn't imagine Jim Gavin turning a blind eye to proceedings if Cooper or McMahon were getting roasted- or any other manager of any sort either.
Yet we had not one but two managers who saw nothing wrong.
Aidan O'Shea? Was it this fault that he was left on his own with two or three Dubs defenders hanging out if him every time the ball came his way?
With friends like McGee and ORourke, Noel and Pat will never be short of enemies.
Quote from: moysider on October 06, 2015, 12:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2015, 10:57:01 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-mayo-mutiny-prompts-the-question-of-whos-dictating-the-search-for-new-boss-31582099.html
"We know that largely the same Mayo panel have taken part in seven All-Ireland semi-finals in the past five years and managed to win just two. They have played in two All-Ireland finals and lost both, which means that out of nine high-grade national competition games Mayo have won TWO and failed to win SEVEN.
Never in the history of the GAA has a county played in as many semi-finals and finals over such a condensed period without winning even one All-Ireland. It is important to stress this fact, and the recent history of Mayo, in order to put in context what has led up to these latest developments."
On
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-talks-to-paul-kimmage-i-find-it-hard-to-think-of-myself-as-anything-other-than-ordinary-31454305.htmle of McGee's insights I really like is the following :
EMcG: A lot of the matches are shite, but the worst of all is having to write the column in wintertime. I sit down every Saturday night and say, 'What am I going to write here?'. I'm 30 years writing columns now, for God's sake! And some of the stuff I write on Monday is pure shite."
I know that McGee is gospel with a lot of football people. But he's a gobshite of the highest order imo. Same Mayo panel my hole. It doesn t matter a damn. He was shafting us in 00s, 90s, and 80s as well. He was even 'nasty' about Mayo players that played for him and won him Sigersons back in the 70's. f**k him.
McGee has form here for sure, never had much good to say about us, he always had more time for our Connacht neighbours for some reason. What does he care he has a handy article all ready to go next year if Mayo exit, maybe he'll resurrect his god awful Larry McGann for the purpose, bile-ridden b****x.
Quote from: Mac2 on October 06, 2015, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 06, 2015, 12:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2015, 10:57:01 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-mayo-mutiny-prompts-the-question-of-whos-dictating-the-search-for-new-boss-31582099.html
"We know that largely the same Mayo panel have taken part in seven All-Ireland semi-finals in the past five years and managed to win just two. They have played in two All-Ireland finals and lost both, which means that out of nine high-grade national competition games Mayo have won TWO and failed to win SEVEN.
Never in the history of the GAA has a county played in as many semi-finals and finals over such a condensed period without winning even one All-Ireland. It is important to stress this fact, and the recent history of Mayo, in order to put in context what has led up to these latest developments."
On
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-talks-to-paul-kimmage-i-find-it-hard-to-think-of-myself-as-anything-other-than-ordinary-31454305.htmle of McGee's insights I really like is the following :
EMcG: A lot of the matches are shite, but the worst of all is having to write the column in wintertime. I sit down every Saturday night and say, 'What am I going to write here?'. I'm 30 years writing columns now, for God's sake! And some of the stuff I write on Monday is pure shite."
I know that McGee is gospel with a lot of football people. But he's a gobshite of the highest order imo. Same Mayo panel my hole. It doesn t matter a damn. He was shafting us in 00s, 90s, and 80s as well. He was even 'nasty' about Mayo players that played for him and won him Sigersons back in the 70's. f**k him.
McGee has form here for sure, never had much good to say about us, he always had more time for our Connacht neighbours for some reason. What does he care he has a handy article all ready to go next year if Mayo exit, maybe he'll resurrect his god awful Larry McGann for the purpose, bile-ridden b****x.
Which neighbours because he doesn't like us much either.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 06, 2015, 10:01:09 AM
I'm going way against my better judgement by referring to McGee and anything he writes but since was he has to say is more or less what the anti—players brigade are putting out, I think this article needs to be challenged.
He may not be much of an investigative journalist but, as a creative one, he's way out there in front of the rest.
For instance, before he got steam up, this was his second paragraph:
"Here we have an unelected body of GAA people undermining the authority of the Mayo county board by ousting their managers. And to add insult to injury they did not apparently have the courtesy to inform the managers, the county board, nor the Mayo GAA supporters of the reasons for their behaviour."
The tension began when the appointment of Connelly and Holmes was announced.
They were not selected using the democratic process that CB had pledged to operate.
The board did not follow its own guidelines when handing the job to the two boys. Note the word "apparently." He hadn't a clue of what had happened yet he went on to write about 20 more paragraphs attacking the players' stance.
He assumes a lot here:
"With no information coming from the Mayo players recently we are entitled to accept that they believe it is the managements of the teams in this period that are responsible for their catalogue of failure and, by definition, that must mean that the players themselves believe they are not the cause of the failures."
He's entitled to believe sweet FA if he doesn't make any attempt to find out if what he says is true or not.
Damian Lawlor's article in the Sindo the day before had described what really took place.
Pat and Noel knew days before the story broke that the players were unhappy with their performance but they still refused to resign. They could have walked away with the general public unaware of their reasons but they decided not to. Hence, the public row,
which was not what the players were looking for.
Colm O'Rourke was nearly as bad. He two posed two questions in the Sindo ; "Could the management be blamed for Keith Higgins, the best Mayo player of his era, getting scorched by Paddy Andrews...Or Aidan O'Shea not performing in two big games."
Of course the managers were to blame, how could it be otherwise?
It was up to them to see what was happening on the field and to make substitutions or positional changes or whatever if they saw things were going wrong. Who the hell else had the responsibility to do so?
I couldn't imagine Jim Gavin turning a blind eye to proceedings if Cooper or McMahon were getting roasted- or any other manager of any sort either.
Yet we had not one but two managers who saw nothing wrong.
Aidan O'Shea? Was it this fault that he was left on his own with two or three Dubs defenders hanging out if him every time the ball came his way?
With friends like McGee and ORourke, Noel and Pat will never be short of enemies.
Well said Lar.
I've mentioned this a few times on here but just to repeat it - on O'Rourkes point above, Higgins was taken for 2 points against Andrews, not 5; and while AOS only scored 1 point from play in the two Dublin games, he won 7 pointed frees.
Quote from: Syferus on October 06, 2015, 10:47:32 AM
Quote from: Mac2 on October 06, 2015, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 06, 2015, 12:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2015, 10:57:01 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-mayo-mutiny-prompts-the-question-of-whos-dictating-the-search-for-new-boss-31582099.html
"We know that largely the same Mayo panel have taken part in seven All-Ireland semi-finals in the past five years and managed to win just two. They have played in two All-Ireland finals and lost both, which means that out of nine high-grade national competition games Mayo have won TWO and failed to win SEVEN.
Never in the history of the GAA has a county played in as many semi-finals and finals over such a condensed period without winning even one All-Ireland. It is important to stress this fact, and the recent history of Mayo, in order to put in context what has led up to these latest developments."
On
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-talks-to-paul-kimmage-i-find-it-hard-to-think-of-myself-as-anything-other-than-ordinary-31454305.htmle of McGee's insights I really like is the following :
EMcG: A lot of the matches are shite, but the worst of all is having to write the column in wintertime. I sit down every Saturday night and say, 'What am I going to write here?'. I'm 30 years writing columns now, for God's sake! And some of the stuff I write on Monday is pure shite."
I know that McGee is gospel with a lot of football people. But he's a gobshite of the highest order imo. Same Mayo panel my hole. It doesn t matter a damn. He was shafting us in 00s, 90s, and 80s as well. He was even 'nasty' about Mayo players that played for him and won him Sigersons back in the 70's. f**k him.
McGee has form here for sure, never had much good to say about us, he always had more time for our Connacht neighbours for some reason. What does he care he has a handy article all ready to go next year if Mayo exit, maybe he'll resurrect his god awful Larry McGann for the purpose, bile-ridden b****x.
Which neighbours because he doesn't like us much either.
Naw he loves ye guys he'll be all decked out in primrose and blue next year to see off the red and green infidels.
I assume you are referring to us there?
Not quite sure where you get that idea from.
He absolutely slated Galway after the drawn Connacht final in 98.
And I recall other articles written about us late 90s/early noughties where he was less than complimentary.
Anyway I wouldn't be in the least worried what he says about you.
Total dinosaur
Quote from: Mac2 on October 06, 2015, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 06, 2015, 10:47:32 AM
Quote from: Mac2 on October 06, 2015, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 06, 2015, 12:14:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2015, 10:57:01 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-mayo-mutiny-prompts-the-question-of-whos-dictating-the-search-for-new-boss-31582099.html
"We know that largely the same Mayo panel have taken part in seven All-Ireland semi-finals in the past five years and managed to win just two. They have played in two All-Ireland finals and lost both, which means that out of nine high-grade national competition games Mayo have won TWO and failed to win SEVEN.
Never in the history of the GAA has a county played in as many semi-finals and finals over such a condensed period without winning even one All-Ireland. It is important to stress this fact, and the recent history of Mayo, in order to put in context what has led up to these latest developments."
On
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eugene-mcgee-talks-to-paul-kimmage-i-find-it-hard-to-think-of-myself-as-anything-other-than-ordinary-31454305.htmle of McGee's insights I really like is the following :
EMcG: A lot of the matches are shite, but the worst of all is having to write the column in wintertime. I sit down every Saturday night and say, 'What am I going to write here?'. I'm 30 years writing columns now, for God's sake! And some of the stuff I write on Monday is pure shite."
I know that McGee is gospel with a lot of football people. But he's a gobshite of the highest order imo. Same Mayo panel my hole. It doesn t matter a damn. He was shafting us in 00s, 90s, and 80s as well. He was even 'nasty' about Mayo players that played for him and won him Sigersons back in the 70's. f**k him.
McGee has form here for sure, never had much good to say about us, he always had more time for our Connacht neighbours for some reason. What does he care he has a handy article all ready to go next year if Mayo exit, maybe he'll resurrect his god awful Larry McGann for the purpose, bile-ridden b****x.
Which neighbours because he doesn't like us much either.
Naw he loves ye guys he'll be all decked out in primrose and blue next year to see off the red and green infidels.
I think he has a bit of a soft spot for counties with smaller populations given that he is from one and was the last manager to win a football All-Ireland with a county with a small population. Indeed, I recall him writing an article many years ago that he did not think that would be ever possible again- he listed counties like Ros, Cavan, Offaly, that despite their tradition, would be unlikely to ever win again because of population bases under 60k . That said, his articles are full of errors, like when he wrote recently that Holmes and Connolly were the last men to win a football All-Ireland for Mayo with the U21 in 2006 even thought they won a minor All-Ireland as little as 2 years ago.
Any bookie giving odds on next manager?
PP were last week but its gone now
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/stephen-rochford-clear-favourite-for-mayo-job-31585430.html
Stephen Rochford has emerged as the clear frontrunner to be appointed the new Mayo football manager.
One bookmaking firm announced yesterday that it had suspended betting on the current Corofin manager taking charge of the Connacht champions after a player heave saw Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly step down.
Rochford, who has previously been involved with the Mayo minors, guided Galway outfit Corofin to an All-Ireland club title last March as they swept past Derry's Slaughtneil.
And the Crossmolina native was backed into 1/4 from 11/8 before Paddy Power pulled the market on Sunday night.
Quote from: galwayman on October 06, 2015, 12:27:51 PM
I assume you are referring to us there?
Not quite sure where you get that idea from.
He absolutely slated Galway after the drawn Connacht final in 98.
And I recall other articles written about us late 90s/early noughties where he was less than complimentary.
Anyway I wouldn't be in the least worried what he says about you.
Total dinosaur
I remember that galwayman. I think he called you the fancy Dans of football but he did have a road to Damascus like conversion after you won those couple of All Irelands with his ire turning to Mayo and Dublin after that and now Mayo are the lone targets due to our failure to get over the line. He was a very good manager in fairness to him despite being a poor journalist!!!
Quote from: galwayman on October 06, 2015, 12:27:51 PM
I assume you are referring to us there?
Not quite sure where you get that idea from.
He absolutely slated Galway after the drawn Connacht final in 98.
And I recall other articles written about us late 90s/early noughties where he was less than complimentary.
Anyway I wouldn't be in the least worried what he says about you.
Total dinosaur
No a closet Ross man despite some faint criticism this year.
Never would be too bothered about journos having a go but he seems to have some sort of axe to grind with us for a long time.
Quote from: mick999 on October 06, 2015, 02:04:13 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/stephen-rochford-clear-favourite-for-mayo-job-31585430.html
Stephen Rochford has emerged as the clear frontrunner to be appointed the new Mayo football manager.
One bookmaking firm announced yesterday that it had suspended betting on the current Corofin manager taking charge of the Connacht champions after a player heave saw Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly step down.
Rochford, who has previously been involved with the Mayo minors, guided Galway outfit Corofin to an All-Ireland club title last March as they swept past Derry's Slaughtneil.
And the Crossmolina native was backed into 1/4 from 11/8 before Paddy Power pulled the market on Sunday night.
They shouldnt have any probs quoting me a good price on someone else so..
I haven't read the Western yet so I don't know what Sir John interview has to say about Connelly and Holmes stepping down but if makes sense of some sort, it'll be the first one to do so that I've come across.
I'm sure there are lots of decent, ordinary people who disagreed with the players' action and that's their entitlement. But I have yet to come across anything here or in the media that makes sense.
Some of the posters here, normally, sensible, level-headed folks, really went to town on the team but came up with very little to a back up their rants claims. To say that if Lee Keegan's shot hadn't been blocked, Mayo would have won the All-Ireland and the two bucks would be heroes. That's straight out of the "If only me auntie..." guidebook.
Similarly with the claim that if only Seamie O'Shea had kept his temper we would would now be in Nirvana or something like that. Dublin managed to turn a four point deficit into a seven point win inside the last 25 minutes. Even if by some miracle, we had won that game, Kerry would have to be dealt with and and they'd probably bate us down Clonliffe Road with Mayo in such disarray.
If Seamie hadn't been black-carded, he would probably have finished the game and nothing more can be said, As it was, his radar wasn't calibrated very well as he was way off with his attempts to hoof long balls into to Aidan. Anyway, Andy didn't weaken the team when he came on.
I'm not trying to re-start the controversy, but I'd I'd love to find out what any sane rational being might have to say in the managers' defence.
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2015, 08:29:18 PM
I hope no Mayo poster here ever has the brass balls to comment on the Dublin back room team again
It's a well-known fact that the Dublin back-room team like to dress up as ladies and pick up men in bars.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 06, 2015, 06:03:36 PM
I haven't read the Western yet so I don't know what Sir John interview has to say about Connelly and Holmes stepping down but if makes sense of some sort, it'll be the first one to do so that I've come across.
I'm sure there are lots of decent, ordinary people who disagreed with the players' action and that's their entitlement. But I have yet to come across anything here or in the media that makes sense.
Some of the posters here, normally, sensible, level-headed folks, really went to town on the team but came up with very little to a back up their rants claims. To say that if Lee Keegan's shot hadn't been blocked, Mayo would have won the All-Ireland and the two bucks would be heroes. That's straight out of the "If only me auntie..." guidebook.
Similarly with the claim that if only Seamie O'Shea had kept his temper we would would now be in Nirvana or something like that. Dublin managed to turn a four point deficit into a seven point win inside the last 25 minutes. Even if by some miracle, we had won that game, Kerry would have to be dealt with and and they'd probably bate us down Clonliffe Road with Mayo in such disarray.
If Seamie hadn't been black-carded, he would probably have finished the game and nothing more can be said, As it was, his radar wasn't calibrated very well as he was way off with his attempts to hoof long balls into to Aidan. Anyway, Andy didn't weaken the team when he came on.
I'm not trying to re-start the controversy, but I'd I'd love to find out what any sane rational being might have to say in the managers' defence.
Being sane might be stretching it a bit but I'll give it a go.
Until the semi-final I thought the team was set up well during the Summer - probably a better shape to it than in Horan's time. The set-up attitude for the Donegal was A1. In spite of all the rumblings of discontent around the place since early year the team was well prepared and clued in on the pitch.
Unless the team won the whole shebang though it was obvious from the start really that H&C would be dead men walking. My gripe with them is that they didn t take the hint and make their excuses and leave with good grace after Dublin. Maybe with the board firmly onside they thought they could weather the storm/let the dust settle.
It was poor judgement by the managers and the board. They completely underestimated the mood of the squad. It didn t need to become such a squabble and a spectacle for the whole country to enjoy.
There was no way that H&C were going to get a settle-in year. Firstly the team was too far on in development for teething trouble. Secondly there is a body of opinion out there that managers get the best out of a team in their first year. Thirdly, these were not rookie managers - both had managed as a team at U21 and Holmes had a 3 year stint previously as senior manager.
A returning Horan - if he returns - would be under similar pressure to go the whole way next year.
Whoever gets the job will have the express pressure to win an AI immediately after what the Mayo players did. I think all the players have achieved is making their task next season more difficult by the actions this off-season, but I ain't complaining.
The hard answer might be that this panel's chance of winning has passed, no matter who is appointed.
Quote from: Syferus on October 07, 2015, 01:15:23 AM
Whoever gets the job will have the express pressure to win an AI immediately after what the Mayo players did. I think all the players have achieved is making their task next season more difficult by the actions this off-season, but I ain't complaining.
The hard answer might be that this panel's chance of winning has passed, no matter who is appointed.
There is no doubt that the players have put pressure on themselves but then again there is hardly another team in the country which has shown such determination to rebound from adversity as this group has. Age wise there are very few who would be considered finished and with modern training, S&C and game management plus the arrival of Diarmuid, , Coen, Regan, 3rd O Shea, Loftus etc we will be in the mix next year.
Longterm , however, the affects of the 20 yr drive for Sam and the resultant need for finance to bolster on the club situation is worrying. Club football is at an all time low. As bad as senior c/ship is the underage structures are dropping in standard annually.Ballinrobe may play senior football championship next year from the third division of the league. Westport, third largest area in the county, have not fielded at u21 level this yr. At underage levels clubs are diving to compete at B,C,or D levels in order to win rather than face competition at higher levels. Development panels are harder to exit than enter. Claremorris have won the Minor A league and qualified for the A Ch/ship final with a team that had no representatives on the county minor team. Meanwhile the Mayo News posts an inventory of those players who won All Ireland Minor title two yrs ago with a catastrophic litany of injuries and operations and no-one at CB level can link training to injury because all focus is on the Holy Grail. The scheduling of matches is unfathomable and competitions that are to be played without county players are deferred as officials use influence to avoid their clubs having to field. Players in the county panel exist in a cocoon wherby they only play in internal A v B games. When X roasts Keith Higgins (for example) in an internal game it is given huge significance as opposed to X showing that week in week out he is better than the average in club football.
As Kenneth Mortimer ( hardly a CB patsy) has pointed out the players may have cut off their nose to spite their face unless there is a manager of high calibre available to them. While I have great sympathy for the outgoing management I have to admire the single-mindedness of the players. BUT what happens if it backfires. Kerry went a decade without success after the disintegration of the 70s/80s team.
If we don't mind the house we face the same outcome.
One of the best posts on this thread in a long while. That post encapsulates my worries about the future of Mayo football.
I disagree that the players' actions mean the next incumbent must cross the all Ireland threshold immediately.
I would have thought it is fairly obvious that the players feel strongly that previous management are not going to facilitate the team playing to their maximum next year or in 3 years if left in charge for the short or medium term.
Whether they win an all Ireland or not, surely this is motivated by trying to create the best environment they can to compete and continue to excel - which they hitherto have done
I don't buy that this puts extra pressure on Mayo.
With the Leinster and Munster winners in opposite halves of the draw, 2016 will be a failure for Mayo unless they reach the All Ireland final (perhaps you could say the same for Tyrone and Donegal too). So no matter who the Mayo manager is, Mayo will be under pressure to reach the final next year, and no matter who the manager is they'd be underdogs in a final against Kerry or Dublin.
Rightly or wrongly (although I'm not sure players are the best judges) the Mayo lads think a change in management will help them deal with the pressure of meeting the expectations of getting to a final, and exceeding expectations by winning when they get there.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2015, 09:21:17 AM
I disagree that the players' actions mean the next incumbent must cross the all Ireland threshold immediately.
I would have thought it is fairly obvious that the players feel strongly that previous management are not going to facilitate the team playing to their maximum next year or in 3 years if left in charge for the short or medium term.
Whether they win an all Ireland or not, surely this is motivated by trying to create the best environment they can to compete and continue to excel - which they hitherto have done
+1
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the most accurate.
Duffleking, you mention that Mayo can '' continue to excel''. But they only '' excel '' up to a certain point. They always find one team too good for them each year. This year it was Dublin, as it was in 2013.. When Dublin had a down year in 2014, Kerry took the honours. In 2012, when Kerry and Dublin both dipped, Donegal proved too good for Mayo.. So, they only '' excel '' up to a certain point. Without taking anything away from what they have achieved, Mayo get a big help every year from the standard of Connacht Football. They are practically guaranteed an AIQF every year. This is not Mayo's fault, but they benefit in a huge way from the way that Connacht has gone..When it comes to winning an All Ireland, there's only one ingredient missing in Mayo, but haven't got a clue what it is. Referees, Management and Co Board can only take so much blame. The missing ingredient is missing ON the pitch. If they ever find out what is, Mayo can still win a few All Irelands. But this team is running out of time.
"Claremorris have won the Minor A league and qualified for the A Ch/ship final with a team that had no representatives on the county minor team."
I understand some were invited. But they couldn't give the required physical and time commitment.
Given the proximity to Leaving Cert etc, for the first time in my life, I am actually leaning towards scrapping the County Minor Championship. The burden being placed on young lads still at school seems way over the top.
Muppet, i see what you're saying about the Leaving Cert etc, but it's a nationwide problem. I've often heard of Roscommon Minors finishing their Leaving Cert on a Thursday or Friday, and then play a Connacht Minor Championship match on the Saturday or Sunday. It's a lot of pressure on young lads.
Football is a release for a lot of those lads too. As long as their coaches, and the fixtures guys, are copped on, it should be manageable.
I remember being picked up at 3.30 in the afternoon one evening in 6th year, around April I'd say, and heading in a bus down to Cork to play the Cork minors in a challenge match at 7pm. We finished the game, and drove home, stopping in Thurles for food. Landed in Ferbane at 1am. We did our homework on the bus.
That was out of order, but we loved it :)
Scrapping minor is a band aid to a problem that has little to do with the minor grade. Plenty of time in the year if it's used correctly.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 07, 2015, 12:40:51 PM
Football is a release for a lot of those lads too. As long as their coaches, and the fixtures guys, are copped on, it should be manageable.
I remember being picked up at 3.30 in the afternoon one evening in 6th year, around April I'd say, and heading in a bus down to Cork to play the Cork minors in a challenge match at 7pm. We finished the game, and drove home, stopping in Thurles for food. Landed in Ferbane at 1am. We did our homework on the bus.
That was out of order, but we loved it :)
Training minors, who are still at school, like professionals for many months is missing the point completely imho. If this continues you will see many more opting out of the grade.
Point well made Muppet, but is the solution to get rid of the competition and deprive all of what is a wonderful opportunity or make serious efforts to reform the system. All counties have agreed safeguards for underage players... closed seasons etc but insist on driving a coach and four through the same regulations. Training during Leaving Cert year is still a good idea and lads who learn the discipline of training and studying are generally the better for it. Many studies show that those engaged in high level sport do better than those who don't. But the mindless training that has been going on for the past few years threatens to destroy the sport. Reports that players are kept training until they get physically sick, are unable eat the food provided afterwards and finally unable to study when they get home are too common to be untrue. Surely the heavy S & C work could be left to the u21 stage and skill development etc be paramount at minor level.
I don't know what S&C work the Claremorris lads mentioned are doing if any, but surely if they are still ahead of all teams in the county , including all those on the county Minor and U 17 squads then the value of the work being done with the county teams must be called into question. Granted a club may come upon an exceptional group of players at the one age group (and this may be the case here) but it would seem that these are better off out than in.
Quote from: mrhardyannual on October 07, 2015, 07:42:43 PM
Point well made Muppet, but is the solution to get rid of the competition and deprive all of what is a wonderful opportunity or make serious efforts to reform the system. All counties have agreed safeguards for underage players... closed seasons etc but insist on driving a coach and four through the same regulations. Training during Leaving Cert year is still a good idea and lads who learn the discipline of training and studying are generally the better for it. Many studies show that those engaged in high level sport do better than those who don't. But the mindless training that has been going on for the past few years threatens to destroy the sport. Reports that players are kept training until they get physically sick, are unable eat the food provided afterwards and finally unable to study when they get home are too common to be untrue. Surely the heavy S & C work could be left to the u21 stage and skill development etc be paramount at minor level.
I don't know what S&C work the Claremorris lads mentioned are doing if any, but surely if they are still ahead of all teams in the county , including all those on the county Minor and U 17 squads then the value of the work being done with the county teams must be called into question. Granted a club may come upon an exceptional group of players at the one age group (and this may be the case here) but it would seem that these are better off out than in.
Don't get me wrong, I have never even dreamt of scrapping minor level until I was home recently and heard about the level of training and injuries at that level in the last few years. The time and intensity involved nowadays are ridiculous.
Would a typical week's training of 2 sessions (180 mins) look like this?
Warm ups 40 mins
S&C work 50 mins
Running 15 mins
Drills 30 mins
Games 45 mins
Individual Coaching 0 mins (excluding goalkeepers and free takers)
Quote from: Mrs mills on October 07, 2015, 10:21:20 PM
Would a typical week's training of 2 sessions (180 mins) look like this?
Warm ups 40 mins
S&C work 50 mins
Running 15 mins
Drills 30 mins
Games 45 mins
Individual Coaching 0 mins (excluding goalkeepers and free takers)
The right length anyway.
I am not sure how many days a week though, it may have been more than twice.
Throw in 15 minutes to get ready and 30 minutes shower and change etc afterwards, then say a 30 minute drive to a handy part of the county, and back, and that is 4 hours 45 mins away for everyone one of those sessions. 5 hours 45 if you are from Belmullet. Not great for Leaving Certs. In fact you could barely fit in any homework if it was a school night.
Quote from: muppet on October 07, 2015, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: Mrs mills on October 07, 2015, 10:21:20 PM
Would a typical week's training of 2 sessions (180 mins) look like this?
Warm ups 40 mins
S&C work 50 mins
Running 15 mins
Drills 30 mins
Games 45 mins
Individual Coaching 0 mins (excluding goalkeepers and free takers)
The right length anyway.
I am not sure how many days a week though, it may have been more than twice.
Throw in 15 minutes to get ready and 30 minutes shower and change etc afterwards, then say a 30 minute drive to a handy part of the county, and back, and that is 4 hours 45 mins away for everyone one of those sessions. 5 hours 45 if you are from Belmullet. Not great for Leaving Certs. In fact you could barely fit in any homework if it was a school night.
Avoiding doing homework is probably an advantage of it for most Leaving Certs.
Underage means different things, in different counties.
In counties like Kerry, Dublin, Kilkenny in hurling, you don't necessarily need your underage teams to be winning championships, but you need them to be competitive and producing at least a couple of players every year that are capable of moving onto the senior panels. Constant rejuvenation as such.
In counties that are not historically successful, you need a batch every now and then to seed a new dawn. See Tyrone as a great example back in the late 90s, early noughties. So if you are a team from nowhere, and you win an All Ireland or two at underage, it is a great shot in the arm. The challenge of course is to back that batch up by developing them into senior players, and then backfilling a production line behind them with the competitive teams producing smaller batches.
It's not sustainable to think you can (or need to ) produce All Ireland winning minors every year.
A recent article in the papers interviewed quoted a doctor involved in sports science/medicine saying, in her opinion, that the use of adult training methods with underage players is a major factor in some of the serious, long term injuries picked up by young players. The large amount of cruciate injuries suffered by players in their early 20s the last few years and the list of Mayo minors from 2013 with hip, knee etc injuries would be good evidence to back this claim up. That and consideration for player welfare is an issue. He may have managed the squad to an All Ireland, but Gilvarry went down in my estimation by leaving Cian Hanly on the pitch for a fair length of time after he had sustained a clearly serious knee injury in the 2014 semi final against Kerry. I don't think the minor grade should be scrapped, but the mentality around it has to change as the expectation, commitment and workload required is excessive for young lads and not sustainable in the long run.
Quote from: bucko on October 08, 2015, 10:23:09 AM
A recent article in the papers interviewed quoted a doctor involved in sports science/medicine saying, in her opinion, that the use of adult training methods with underage players is a major factor in some of the serious, long term injuries picked up by young players. The large amount of cruciate injuries suffered by players in their early 20s the last few years and the list of Mayo minors from 2013 with hip, knee etc injuries would be good evidence to back this claim up. That and consideration for player welfare is an issue. He may have managed the squad to an All Ireland, but Gilvarry went down in my estimation by leaving Cian Hanly on the pitch for a fair length of time after he had sustained a clearly serious knee injury in the 2014 semi final against Kerry. I don't think the minor grade should be scrapped, but the mentality around it has to change as the expectation, commitment and workload required is excessive for young lads and not sustainable in the long run.
That was very difficult to watch - he repeatedly crumpled in a heap, clearly seriously injured and was left on the field. Everyone around me was shouting for him to be taken off.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 08, 2015, 09:33:16 AM
. So if you are a team from nowhere, and you win an All Ireland or two at underage, it is a great shot in the arm. The challenge of course is to back that batch up by developing them into senior players, and then backfilling a production line behind them with the competitive teams producing smaller batches.
Two biggest dangers in that scenario -
* Young gasúns become celebrities and won't be able to engage in the hard slog /committment to develop further
* They get thrown too soon into the black hole that is a bad County Senior team and get their confidence destroyed by a few bad hammerings.
I suspect we'll have at most 4 of our 2006 Minors on next year's panel ( 3 of whom were minors in 07 too - so one of the class on 1988).
I think 14 of the 2012 U21 squad that reached the AI Final have worn the County Senior jersey - I suspect only 6/7 will be on next year's panel.
But to get back to our "lovely neighbours" - any one nominated yet or is there a "process" underway or...????
Yes, to be honest the 'I'm a great fella' syndrome is probably the easier managed of the two. The challenge of when to introduce them, and at a level where they won't be immediately shot to pieces confidence wise is the trick. That's one of the big worries in Tipp. A lot of lads in recent years have come through without ever losing to Kerry for example. Then this year Kerry beat them, handily, by 6 points pulling up. How do you continue to build the confidence so that one day soon they will have developed enough to have a right crack at Kerry. That's where the league is very important, and that's why I'm sure Tipp will continue to try and rise through the leagues.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2015, 11:37:41 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 08, 2015, 09:33:16 AM
. So if you are a team from nowhere, and you win an All Ireland or two at underage, it is a great shot in the arm. The challenge of course is to back that batch up by developing them into senior players, and then backfilling a production line behind them with the competitive teams producing smaller batches.
Two biggest dangers in that scenario -
* Young gasúns become celebrities and won't be able to engage in the hard slog /committment to develop further
* They get thrown too soon into the black hole that is a bad County Senior team and get their confidence destroyed by a few bad hammerings.
I suspect we'll have at most 4 of our 2006 Minors on next year's panel ( 3 of whom were minors in 07 too - so one of the class on 1988).
I think 14 of the 2012 U21 squad that reached the AI Final have worn the County Senior jersey - I suspect only 6/7 will be on next year's panel.
But to get back to our "lovely neighbours" - any one nominated yet or is there a "process" underway or...????
U21 is more important IMO for bringing players on to senior panel. There was no minors from the Westmeath AI winning team in 1995 on the Leinster team in 2004. To contrast there was 5 AI winners from the U21 team in 1999 and 2 more from the Leinster U21 team in 2000.
It is. Although there were a few on the panel :)
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 08, 2015, 03:33:58 PM
It is. Although there were a few on the panel :)
4 to be exact and bizarrely not one of them got a minute of game time in the championship that year. Again to contrast there was 4 other players from the U21 team in 1999 that made the panel in 04. No wonder they were able to beat a Jack O'Connor managed team with a few household names in the final.
Anybody know if there's been nominations for the position? When are they picking the u21 manager does anybody know?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2015, 06:45:58 PM
Anybody know if there's been nominations for the position? When are they picking the u21 manager does anybody know?
Anyone know is there a process this time?
Quote from: muppet on October 08, 2015, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2015, 06:45:58 PM
Anybody know if there's been nominations for the position? When are they picking the u21 manager does anybody know?
Anyone know is there a process this time?
I thought John Maughan already had the togs ready the U21 role.
Quote from: weareros on October 08, 2015, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 08, 2015, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2015, 06:45:58 PM
Anybody know if there's been nominations for the position? When are they picking the u21 manager does anybody know?
Anyone know is there a process this time?
I thought John Maughan already had the togs ready the U21 role.
......and his case of Hawaiian Tropic....
Quote from: bucko on October 08, 2015, 10:13:00 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 08, 2015, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 08, 2015, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2015, 06:45:58 PM
Anybody know if there's been nominations for the position? When are they picking the u21 manager does anybody know?
Anyone know is there a process this time?
I thought John Maughan already had the togs ready the U21 role.
......and his case of Hawaiian Tropic....
......and his legs shaved...... ;)
He's already been selected by the executive hasn't he? But they're only looking for nominees from clubs after they did that? Seems an ass-backwards way of doing business looking in from outside.
Quote from: Syferus on October 09, 2015, 01:51:42 PM
He's already been selected by the executive hasn't he? But they're only looking for nominees from clubs after they did that? Seems an ass-backwards way of doing business looking in from other outside.
Seem to find myself defending the CB more than I'm comfortable with lately. Clubs were asked to nominate. Two nominations received. Neither was considered up to the job( general consensus around the county) so the Exec added Maughan to the list. Damned when they do and damned when they don't. Have heard the opinion expressed that they should have chosen one of the two nominated by clubs
but in this case I'd give them the credit for a bit of leadership.
If McStay is gonna get the post, he'll gonna insist once again to put McHale alongside him. If I were to remember, McStay said last year that Mayo need a McHale than a McStay. Haha so.... history repeats itself. I just hope that a decision is being made now. ;)
How come the Rossies are so loud in the off season compared to actually during the season?
Ohh okay then black mamba but you will have to understand we are waiting a long time for the Roscommon train to pull into town.
On that note what happens if Ye fail again next year ? I mean if Ye keep saying it , one of these years you will be right and you're bound to get a Connacht .
Personally I think yer kiddin yourselves after your absolute collapse this year . I genuinely thought you'd give Connacht a right good rattle this year but you'd have to start to question are these ladeeens goin to cut it against Mayo ever? Realistically I'm going to inform ya you haven't a hope in hell of winning in castlebar next year in the championship . That will leave you with less of a chance of much croke park experience again . 2017 will become a sh it or bust season for FR. Kevin. Just don't understand yer optimism .
Quote from: larryin89 on October 09, 2015, 09:24:41 PM
Ohh okay then black mamba but you will have to understand we are waiting a long time for the Roscommon train to pull into town.
On that note what happens if Ye fail again next year ? I mean if Ye keep saying it , one of these years you will be right and you're bound to get a Connacht .
Personally I think yer kiddin yourselves after your absolute collapse this year . I genuinely thought you'd give Connacht a right good rattle this year but you'd have to start to question are these ladeeens goin to cut it against Mayo ever? Realistically I'm going to inform ya you haven't a hope in hell of winning in castlebar next year in the championship . That will leave you with less of a chance of much croke park experience again . 2017 will become a sh it or bust season for FR. Kevin. Just don't understand yer optimism .
Well lads Larryin89 has spoken, we may as well give up I suppose :P
The pride before the fall ..... ;D
I see the Mayo posters are sledging again. Why do they always have to have a cut at the Rossies?
I think Larry and Lar have cracked under all the pressure ;)
When your own house is on fire, point at the neighbours. Distraction tactics.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 09, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
I see the Mayo posters are sledging again. Why do they always have to have a cut at the Rossies?
Because :
A. You can't handle the truth.
B. You are parking illegally on yet another of our threads as usual.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 10, 2015, 02:26:21 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 09, 2015, 11:28:47 PM
I see the Mayo posters are sledging again. Why do they always have to have a cut at the Rossies?
Because :
A. You can't handle the truth.
B. You are parking illegally on yet another of our threads as usual.
Pretty sure no Rossie would want to take attention away from Mayo's tire fire. Everything posted here is focused on Mayo but it's you that wants to talk about Roscommon Lar.
Quote from: The Black Mamba on October 09, 2015, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 09, 2015, 09:24:41 PM
Ohh okay then black mamba but you will have to understand we are waiting a long time for the Roscommon train to pull into town.
On that note what happens if Ye fail again next year ? I mean if Ye keep saying it , one of these years you will be right and you're bound to get a Connacht .
Personally I think yer kiddin yourselves after your absolute collapse this year . I genuinely thought you'd give Connacht a right good rattle this year but you'd have to start to question are these ladeeens goin to cut it against Mayo ever? Realistically I'm going to inform ya you haven't a hope in hell of winning in castlebar next year in the championship . That will leave you with less of a chance of much croke park experience again . 2017 will become a sh it or bust season for FR. Kevin. Just don't understand yer optimism .
Well lads Larryin89 has spoken, we may as well give up I suppose :P
This is the delusional speak Ye go on with . Honestly I feel a biteen of sympathy for Ye at this stage as the years go on , 2001 1991 , seriously that's it in the last 25 odd years .We are in a different planet than Ye in the modern era . If Ye catch up fair play but wow it's goin to take some doin , I don't think realism is within your mentality at the moment .
This notion that Mayo will just disappear from winning Connacht titles because we will lose a few bucks to retirement is another mad one Ye have set your sights on. In13/14 a die hard rossie who is well informed decent buck ,youd want to win it quick seanneen cause we will be taking Connacht over soon again it was a knee jerk reaction to an u 21 run ,in 06 it was the minors and the mountain mover donnie shine was goin to fill up the mantle piece with all stars . But dream away I suppose , no harm in dreams and belief to an extent.
Contain yourselves though surely ! ,not a bad side you've got and if management can get a few things right especially in getting the s&c up to speed . I firmly believe although I will not like it but I don't think an fbd tile is beyond your reach. Nestor will be in Mayo till Galway get it back to salthill in 17 and Sam he won't be in the west for the forseeable future.
Thems the cold facts , you can talk all the shite you want and others can try to be civil and non offensive , simple truth is Roscommon are not good enough to challenge Mayo. Galway a different story , they'll be the ones to take our crown eventually .
Quote from: larryin89 on October 10, 2015, 03:47:38 AM
Quote from: The Black Mamba on October 09, 2015, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 09, 2015, 09:24:41 PM
Ohh okay then black mamba but you will have to understand we are waiting a long time for the Roscommon train to pull into town.
On that note what happens if Ye fail again next year ? I mean if Ye keep saying it , one of these years you will be right and you're bound to get a Connacht .
Personally I think yer kiddin yourselves after your absolute collapse this year . I genuinely thought you'd give Connacht a right good rattle this year but you'd have to start to question are these ladeeens goin to cut it against Mayo ever? Realistically I'm going to inform ya you haven't a hope in hell of winning in castlebar next year in the championship . That will leave you with less of a chance of much croke park experience again . 2017 will become a sh it or bust season for FR. Kevin. Just don't understand yer optimism .
Well lads Larryin89 has spoken, we may as well give up I suppose :P
This is the delusional speak Ye go on with . Honestly I feel a biteen of sympathy for Ye at this stage as the years go on , 2001 1991 , seriously that's it in the last 25 odd years .We are in a different planet than Ye in the modern era . If Ye catch up fair play but wow it's goin to take some doin , I don't think realism is within your mentality at the moment .
This notion that Mayo will just disappear from winning Connacht titles because we will lose a few bucks to retirement is another mad one Ye have set your sights on. In13/14 a die hard rossie who is well informed decent buck ,youd want to win it quick seanneen cause we will be taking Connacht over soon again it was a knee jerk reaction to an u 21 run ,in 06 it was the minors and the mountain mover donnie shine was goin to fill up the mantle piece with all stars . But dream away I suppose , no harm in dreams and belief to an extent.
Contain yourselves though surely ! ,not a bad side you've got and if management can get a few things right especially in getting the s&c up to speed . I firmly believe although I will not like it but I don't think an fbd tile is beyond your reach. Nestor will be in Mayo till Galway get it back to salthill in 17 and Sam he won't be in the west for the forseeable future.
Thems the cold facts , you can talk all the shite you want and others can try to be civil and non offensive , simple truth is Roscommon are not good enough to challenge Mayo. Galway a different story , they'll be the ones to take our crown eventually .
Facts you say? 😂 Bloody hell ye're losing it over in Mayo
The facts are the facts like the statistics in the post ie 91 and 01 .
And like the 1970s when Mayowestros won how many Connacht Titles ;D
Could the 2020s see a repeat performance?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 10, 2015, 04:52:54 PM
And like the 1970s when Mayowestros won how many Connacht Titles ;D
Could the 2020s see a repeat performance?
Haha yes not my time the 70s but I will say Mayo not winning a Connacht title in that decade is one of the great mysteries of GAA. League champions in 1970, minor all Ireland winners in 66/71 and 78 , under 21 all Ireland winners in 67 and 74 and two all stars in that decade too in Carey and McGrath . Definitely a mystery or some of that era like the aul fella would just say to you " see the same fu kin problem we have in 2015 well it was the same in the 70s " even in our golden era of 48-51 wasn't it one of the greats of that era that said something along the lines of " when we win the all Ireland it won't be because of the county board it will be despite of them"
This thread is now totally ruined by this carry on , I honestly don't even see Ross as rivals anymore , Ye are just not good enough to get worked up about but your comedy value is quality and for that I'll always look forward to seeing Ye in the summer well when Ye make it to meet us anyway.
So Buckley is on his way to Tipp by all accounts, wheels nearly completely off the wagon, John Evans still available, with all those great underage players coming in to the squad I cant understand there is not a rush for the job, all together now larryin89, larnaparka, moysider agus na cairdi, one last hurrah before the final wheel falls off, whistling passing the graveyard comes to mind.
The seasons only over mayo are managerless yet over on there blog they are discussing who they will be playing in next years final.
Apparently, they have a straight run to the final!!
season's
Mayo(westros)
year's.
Despite the grammar the post some up why they are such a cause of merriment in 30 other Counties.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
season's
Mayo(westros)
year's.
Despite the grammar the post some up why they are such a cause of merriment in 30 other Counties.
Good one Ross ;D
Awful stuff altogether.
The Ross faithful referring back to the 1970s to feel better about themselves; looking forward to the 2020s in the great hope of getting the better of their betters!
What is the source of all this new confidence? Is it the player led revolt in Mayo? Is it clinging on to every rumour in the hope that Mayo will implode and weaken as they cannot beat us on the pitch?
Or is it the fact that they have a new manager and backroom team? Perhaps! The source of this new level of arrogance is in the fact that a Mayoman is now to run their team. A MAYO man. Just think about it. They swoon and sway at the thought of one of our bucks leading them once more out of the mire. That has got to rankle.
Quote from: fearsiuil on October 11, 2015, 01:01:46 AM
Awful stuff altogether.
The Ross faithful referring back to the 1970s to feel better about themselves; looking forward to the 2020s in the great hope of getting the better of their betters!
What is the source of all this new confidence? Is it the player led revolt in Mayo? Is it clinging on to every rumour in the hope that Mayo will implode and weaken as they cannot beat us on the pitch?
Or is it the fact that they have a new manager and backroom team? Perhaps! The source of this new level of arrogance is in the fact that a Mayoman is now to run their team. A MAYO man. Just think about it. They swoon and sway at the thought of one of our bucks leading them once more out of the mire. That has got to rankle.
Doesn't rankle. Kevin lives in Roscommon and has been part of Roscommon GAA for many years. Would not even consider him an outside manager. Besides Mayo turned him down twice. Good luck with the search. You are still a long way ahead of the rest of Connacht but then again we have less than half the population and usually only challenge in Connacht every 10 to 15 years. I'm hearing Rochford and Horan were seen chatting. More joint managers or just advice.
Jesus a post from a rossie without any anti Mayo bitter shite attached .Must be located far from the border as the normalisation becomes apparent once you start to move away from sheep walk / fairy mount type area.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
season's
Mayo(westros)
year's.
Despite the grammar the post some up why they are such a cause of merriment in 30 other Counties.
Indeed Rossfan indeed. At least we weren't the laughing stock of the nation on the 12th of July...
Good thing about losing in July is that the Nation doesn't really notice at all. :-[
In other news the bear making bits of balintubber. Best player in Ireland .
If Stephen Rochford remains as Corofin manager, how would he combine it with managing Mayo, if he gets that job? Corofin could still be in the Club championship until next March. Surely the Mayo players, who demand such high standards of excellence from their management, wouldn't tolerate a situation where their new manager was double jobbing.. That's why i believe Horan will be '' The Chosen One.''
Quote from: larryin89 on October 11, 2015, 02:01:45 PM
In other news the bear making bits of balintubber. Best player in Ireland .
Are you talking about a Mayo player??
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 11, 2015, 04:08:58 PM
If Stephen Rochford remains as Corofin manager, how would he combine it with managing Mayo, if he gets that job? Corofin could still be in the Club championship until next March. Surely the Mayo players, who demand such high standards of excellence from their management, wouldn't tolerate a situation where their new manager was double jobbing.. That's why i believe Horan will be '' The Chosen One.''
Corofin will be out in a few weeks.
Quote from: heffo on October 11, 2015, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 11, 2015, 02:01:45 PM
In other news the bear making bits of balintubber. Best player in Ireland .
Are you talking about a Mayo player??
Jaysus Heffo, have you still not got over the semi-final? :D
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 11, 2015, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 11, 2015, 02:01:45 PM
In other news the bear making bits of balintubber. Best player in Ireland .
Are you talking about a Mayo player??
Jaysus Heffo, have you still not got over the semi-final? :D
Whats to get over??!
I'm trying to figure out if the other guy is for real or one of Syf's sock puppet accounts
Quote from: heffo on October 11, 2015, 04:17:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 11, 2015, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 11, 2015, 02:01:45 PM
In other news the bear making bits of balintubber. Best player in Ireland .
Are you talking about a Mayo player??
Jaysus Heffo, have you still not got over the semi-final? :D
Whats to get over??!
I'm trying to figure out if the other guy is for real or one of Syf's sock puppet accounts
Life's too short to try to track that down.
Anyway, Aiden O'Shea scored two goals, won a penalty and got sent off with 2 yellow cards today. He was certainly busy! Barry Moran cleaned him and Seamus out 2 years ago in the County Final so it will be interesting to see how that goes this time.
I know it's just so off the wall to suggest AOS is the best player in Ireland . If he was playing for Dublin or Kerry it would be not so off the wall though .
An All 'Fishhead' Final! ;D
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 04:13:43 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 11, 2015, 04:08:58 PM
If Stephen Rochford remains as Corofin manager, how would he combine it with managing Mayo, if he gets that job? Corofin could still be in the Club championship until next March. Surely the Mayo players, who demand such high standards of excellence from their management, wouldn't tolerate a situation where their new manager was double jobbing.. That's why i believe Horan will be '' The Chosen One.''
Corofin will be out in a few weeks.
Who will beat them in Connacht? James Horan will likely return for Mayo and it's who the players will want.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 11, 2015, 04:08:58 PM
If Stephen Rochford remains as Corofin manager, how would he combine it with managing Mayo, if he gets that job? Corofin could still be in the Club championship until next March. Surely the Mayo players, who demand such high standards of excellence from their management, wouldn't tolerate a situation where their new manager was double jobbing.. That's why i believe Horan will be '' The Chosen One.''
Bnejaysus, Shrewdy, you are a fast learner. ;D
'Twasn't too long ago you were rarin' up at me for tormenting your poor fellow shaggy sheepy mates about Ballagh and all that goes with it. Then you started grousing when a few of us Mayo professionals went over to your thread and tried to unmuddle your thinking. You were howling like a cat with its tails caught in the door and now you're parked permanently on yet another Mayo thread and wondering about who what or it may be the next Mayo manager.
Don't let it worry you, a stór, because it won't matter to ye even if we pick a buck on four legs, so it won't. Why don't you return home and keep an eye on McStay? When that hoor realises the mess he's in, he'll bolt for the nearest door like the cat I was telling you about.
You can just pull in your line and pack your rod away; no one's rising to any bait here today.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 11, 2015, 04:39:55 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 04:13:43 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 11, 2015, 04:08:58 PM
If Stephen Rochford remains as Corofin manager, how would he combine it with managing Mayo, if he gets that job? Corofin could still be in the Club championship until next March. Surely the Mayo players, who demand such high standards of excellence from their management, wouldn't tolerate a situation where their new manager was double jobbing.. That's why i believe Horan will be '' The Chosen One.''
Corofin will be out in a few weeks.
Who will beat them in Connacht? James Horan will likely return for Mayo and it's who the players will want.
I think Clanna Gael will beat them. Believe me back to back is difficult
Clan have to bate Pearses first and then the Mwr champions.
Are you Clan manager? ;D
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 04:47:18 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 11, 2015, 04:39:55 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 04:13:43 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 11, 2015, 04:08:58 PM
If Stephen Rochford remains as Corofin manager, how would he combine it with managing Mayo, if he gets that job? Corofin could still be in the Club championship until next March. Surely the Mayo players, who demand such high standards of excellence from their management, wouldn't tolerate a situation where their new manager was double jobbing.. That's why i believe Horan will be '' The Chosen One.''
Corofin will be out in a few weeks.
Who will beat them in Connacht? James Horan will likely return for Mayo and it's who the players will want.
I think Clanna Gael will beat them. Believe me back to back is difficult
It is hard to win back to back All Irelands, Crossmaglen the only side to have done it the last number of years however watching Corofin today it's going to take a top team to stop them from winning back to back provincial titles.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 04:47:18 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 11, 2015, 04:39:55 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 04:13:43 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 11, 2015, 04:08:58 PM
If Stephen Rochford remains as Corofin manager, how would he combine it with managing Mayo, if he gets that job? Corofin could still be in the Club championship until next March. Surely the Mayo players, who demand such high standards of excellence from their management, wouldn't tolerate a situation where their new manager was double jobbing.. That's why i believe Horan will be '' The Chosen One.''
Corofin will be out in a few weeks.
Who will beat them in Connacht? James Horan will likely return for Mayo and it's who the players will want.
I think Clanna Gael will beat them. Believe me back to back is difficult
Paul Curran has been making a bit of a mess of things in Drum. Players not bought into his regime and they've lost three championship games already. Almost let a 14-man Brigids pip them the last day too. Would be utterly unbelievable if they beat Pearses, the Mayo champions in the Connacht semi and then likely Corofin in the Connacht final.
If had to bet on a Curran in the Ros final it would be Cake and Pearses tbh. Been knocking on the door for their first county title for a good few years now.
Lar Naparka, i haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and can only think that you're confusing me with someone else. As for my post about Rochford being ''bait'', you should stop being so paranoid. It can't be good for you.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 11, 2015, 07:24:03 PM
Lar Naparka, i haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and can only think that you're confusing me with someone else. As for my post about Rochford being ''bait'', you should stop being so paranoid. It can't be good for you.
I guess there are some things that can't be explained; if they are not obvious from the start, there is no point in trying to explain them – it can't be done.
However, I'll do my best...
On the Rossie manager's thread. You posted the following:
As usual, i see the Mayo posters taking over a Roscommon related thread.
I found that pretty ironic since most of your regulars spend more time on Mayo threads than on their own. I've no problem with that where most of them are concerned. As I've said before, don't mind the banter, they are good craic and know their football- most of the time anyway.
However, ye have some of the biggest laitchekoes on this planet in yer midst and they can f**k up any thread on any subject.
Now, just this once I counted back 5 pages of your thread before you posted the above.
Irony isn't the word for it.
Mayo posters put up one third of the posts in those five pages, or as close as makes no difference.
BTW, that would be well above an average amount. In the pages I checked, there was no slagging or coat trailing or the likes.
Now if you pick a page or two at random on a Mayo thread , you'll find 50% or more of the posts are from Rossie posters and with some of them, you wouldn't be sure if the poster walks on two legs or four.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Just as well we don't take it too serious Lar ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2015, 11:49:59 AM
Just as well we don't take it too serious Lar ;D
Exactly, it wouldn't do at all at all if you weren't around to have a row with. ;D
Some lads take things waaaay too seriously. They can give it okay but not so hot at taking it, I'm afraid.
(BTW, who is the "we?" Are you speaking on behalf of the Roscommon nation or what?
Sarcasm doesn't come across in print Lar?
Anyway I see ye're CB will start the search for a new manager next Monday.
I take it ye won't be concentrating on th'oul FBD so.
Shane I eat too much cake curran has applied for the position.
That should be an interesting interview :D
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:30:37 PM
That should be an interesting interview :D
Cake will be reporting back to Kev with intel.
Quote from: Syferus on October 14, 2015, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:30:37 PM
That should be an interesting interview :D
Cake will be reporting back to Kev with intel.
Who yet hoping for in the draw tonight , an early trip to the Mecca of western football?
Quote from: larryin89 on October 15, 2015, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 14, 2015, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:30:37 PM
That should be an interesting interview :D
Cake will be reporting back to Kev with intel.
Who ye hoping for in the draw tonight , an early trip to the Mecca of western football?
I hear ye banned the ballycroy buck from the sheep forum, bad form.
Quote from: larryin89 on October 15, 2015, 02:03:00 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 15, 2015, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 14, 2015, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:30:37 PM
That should be an interesting interview :D
Cake will be reporting back to Kev with intel.
Who ye hoping for in the draw tonight , an early trip to the Mecca of western football?
I hear ye banned the ballycroy buck from the sheep forum, bad form.
I'm sure you'll be back with a new name soon larryin ;D
We'd like Sligo after NY, then bate ye crowd in the CF.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 15, 2015, 02:58:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 15, 2015, 02:03:00 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 15, 2015, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 14, 2015, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:30:37 PM
That should be an interesting interview :D
Cake will be reporting back to Kev with intel.
Who ye hoping for in the draw tonight , an early trip to the Mecca of western football?
I hear ye banned the ballycroy buck from the sheep forum, bad form.
I'm sure you'll be back with a new name soon larryin ;D
We'd like Sligo after NY, then bate ye crowd in the CF.
It's yer turn for the big apple then, will you make the trip yourself sir?
Quote from: larryin89 on October 15, 2015, 03:20:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 15, 2015, 02:58:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 15, 2015, 02:03:00 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 15, 2015, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 14, 2015, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:30:37 PM
That should be an interesting interview :D
Cake will be reporting back to Kev with intel.
Who ye hoping for in the draw tonight , an early trip to the Mecca of western football?
I hear ye banned the ballycroy buck from the sheep forum, bad form.
I'm sure you'll be back with a new name soon larryin ;D
We'd like Sligo after NY, then bate ye crowd in the CF.
It's yer turn for the big apple then, will you make the trip yourself sir?
I won't Lar.
Too expensive for my little pocketín and have no relations to bum off there.
That and a joke game so it'll be Willie H for me.
Good for the fundraising though well that's unless you're Mayo and decide to go round with a biscuit tin akin to the Provos 30 years ago.
The year is almost finished,the players would want to get off there arses and choose there manager
Quote from: mjg on October 15, 2015, 11:16:45 PM
The year is almost finished,the players would want to get off there arses and choose there manager
It seems that the players didn't want James Horan to leave and now want him back.
Of course Horan is coming back. Sure, aren't Mayo people telling us all, that they have '' a direct run to the final in 2016''.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 16, 2015, 12:45:01 AM
Of course Horan is coming back. Sure, aren't Mayo people telling us all, that they have '' a direct run to the final in 2016''.
Again you're talking through your bitter Roscommon hole. No Mayo supporter thinks we have " a direct run to the final" as you put it , which I assume means we think we have an easy run to the final . But in reality the only thing any Mayo supporter has said in relation to next years championship chances is that it would be considered the easier run to a final than the other two years similar to when before the backdoor came in when Connacht would play Ulster in semi it would be considered the best chance the Nestor or Anglo Celt cup winners would of reaching final Sunday .
larryin89, you're the one that's bitter. Most of your posts consist of anti- Roscommon bullshit. You'd need to have a word with yourself.
Horan returning is high risk for both panel and management.
And Mayo's best underage forward of recent years may as well use the parentage rule to switch counties if Horan is back.
Shrewdness, I'm not bitter , I just don't like Roscommon .
Syferus, you're awful,concerned about young Regan , it's not the first time you've mentioned his fathers birth county . I'll give you this though , you know your football if you see the potential in Regan .
Larry youd imagine with all the black eyes youv accumulated over the years you would grow up.I wonder why your treated like a leper in kilmovee
Quote from: mjg on October 17, 2015, 01:36:31 AM
Larry youd imagine with all the black eyes youv accumulated over the years you would grow up.I wonder why your treated like a leper in kilmovee
I hope you can back that up , what a bizzare post . I'm from kilmovee , yes, treated like a leper ? Black eyes over the years ?
Quote from: mjg on October 15, 2015, 11:16:45 PM
The year is almost finished,the players would want to get off there arses and choose there manager
You'd want to get off your arse and learn to spell.
Time someone wrote a song about this Mayo saga, anyone any ideas?" I stepped out and I stepped in again " not allowed, you will have to be more original than that.
How do I post screenshots? Any help appreciated, thank you.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on October 17, 2015, 01:36:04 PM
How do I post screenshots? Any help appreciated, thank you.
You need to upload them to a site such as photobucket.com (free sign-up), and then copy the link to your uploaded photo and post that link on here between the image tags (above the smilie on the left).
I can't wait for Monday night... At least we'll be a bit clearer as what's going to happen and this thread may veer on course again.
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 12:18:28 AM
Horan returning is high risk for both panel and management.
And Mayo's best underage forward of recent years may as well use the parentage rule to switch counties if Horan is back.
This coming from a county that can't beat Sligo?
Serious pressure on Roscommon next year in my opinion
What makes Kevin McStay high profile? because he's a pundit on the Sunday game? John Evans won a club All Ireland and managed a senior county team before becoming Roscommon manager.
A Mayo thread about Roscommon , ahh sure now .
Lar Naparka, you seem to imply that someone in the Co Board leaked to a journalist, the details of how certain players voted...But , answer me this. How did anyone in the Co Board know how any player voted? Didn't the players meet and vote in secret? How did the names of Lee Keegan, Andy Moran, Tom Parsons and Mark Ronaldson get from the meeting to the Co Board?
One mess leads to another.
Maybe there will be questions from about what exactly.
The top table in CB showed poor judgement to try and ring-fence management from reproach at the end of the championship.
If they encourage this type of reaction then they are damaging us even more. Last year questions about a very dubious appointment were ridiculed and laughed out of hand. Delegates last year who expressed misgivings about H&C were ridiculed. If there are patsies in place to drive the agenda below, God Help us indeed.
The Connaught Telegraph understands that the process of getting a new senior county manager will not be a priority until the many questions regarding why Holmes and Connelly were hit with such a bombshell by the players are answered. It is hoped that the real reasons behind Holmes and Connelly's sudden departure will be answered when a full county board meeting is held next Monday night. Delegates attending the county board meeting are expected to raise a number of important questions and are also likely to ask the letter given by the players to the county board regarding their issues with the former joint managers, and what further demands they want with the appointment of a new manager or managers, to be read out. Until then the Mayo GAA public will not know what the real reasons, and who or what else besides the players, were behind to have to get Connelly and Holmes to resign.
It's over. Move on.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 18, 2015, 12:06:04 AM
Lar Naparka, you seem to imply that someone in the Co Board leaked to a journalist, the details of how certain players voted...But , answer me this. How did anyone in the Co Board know how any player voted? Didn't the players meet and vote in secret? How did the names of Lee Keegan, Andy Moran, Tom Parsons and Mark Ronaldson get from the meeting to the Co Board?
you have 34 players and 24 staff not to mention Pateen and Noel and their buddies like John Maughan , you have a whole lot of people and you can't expect all of them to keep any problems in the camp under wraps.
You can add i n family members and for that matter, all the CB and you could have two hundred at least who are in a position to know what went on and it's inevitable that you would have leaks. I'd say every Mayo lad here has a fair idea of what was going on.
Besides that, what was what was made public so far, it's not hard too see that they players were furious when news of what had happened was leaked to the Connaught Telegraph.
The plan was that Cillian ans Keith were to meet reps from the CB to discuss their problems but when voting details were leaked, all who were available marched into that meeting and that included the ones who had voted for H&C.
They spent ten minutes there and then turned and left en masse. No sign of compromise there whereas they had tried to keep keep the problem secret up until then. Why would they turn on the Board unless they felt that the leak had come from there?
Quote from: moysider on October 18, 2015, 01:53:57 AM
One mess leads to another.
Maybe there will be questions from about what exactly.
The top table in CB showed poor judgement to try and ring-fence management from reproach at the end of the championship.
If they encourage this type of reaction then they are damaging us even more. Last year questions about a very dubious appointment were ridiculed and laughed out of hand. Delegates last year who expressed misgivings about H&C were ridiculed. If there are patsies in place to drive the agenda below, God Help us indeed.
The Connaught Telegraph understands that the process of getting a new senior county manager will not be a priority until the many questions regarding why Holmes and Connelly were hit with such a bombshell by the players are answered. It is hoped that the real reasons behind Holmes and Connelly's sudden departure will be answered when a full county board meeting is held next Monday night. Delegates attending the county board meeting are expected to raise a number of important questions and are also likely to ask the letter given by the players to the county board regarding their issues with the former joint managers, and what further demands they want with the appointment of a new manager or managers, to be read out. Until then the Mayo GAA public will not know what the real reasons, and who or what else besides the players, were behind to have to get Connelly and Holmes to resign.
It's over. Move on.
And I hope that what the players put to the board is not made public and anyone with Mayo's best interests at heart should understand this. If that letter is made public the only outcome is that Pat and Noel will be humiliated even more. Players didn't want their issues with the managers to be made known and they could have stepped down without losing face.
Whatever I feel about the way they managed the team, they were brave men to take on the job in the first place. Talk about as poisoned chalice!
The least they deserve is that the players' reservations about them are not aired in public.
Move on is right.
Fair enough Lar, thanks for answering my question above. It confirms what i suspected about how the names were originally leaked.
Quote from: moysider on October 18, 2015, 01:53:57 AM
One mess leads to another.
Maybe there will be questions from about what exactly.
The top table in CB showed poor judgement to try and ring-fence management from reproach at the end of the championship.
If they encourage this type of reaction then they are damaging us even more. Last year questions about a very dubious appointment were ridiculed and laughed out of hand. Delegates last year who expressed misgivings about H&C were ridiculed. If there are patsies in place to drive the agenda below, God Help us indeed.
The Connaught Telegraph understands that the process of getting a new senior county manager will not be a priority until the many questions regarding why Holmes and Connelly were hit with such a bombshell by the players are answered. It is hoped that the real reasons behind Holmes and Connelly's sudden departure will be answered when a full county board meeting is held next Monday night. Delegates attending the county board meeting are expected to raise a number of important questions and are also likely to ask the letter given by the players to the county board regarding their issues with the former joint managers, and what further demands they want with the appointment of a new manager or managers, to be read out. Until then the Mayo GAA public will not know what the real reasons, and who or what else besides the players, were behind to have to get Connelly and Holmes to resign.
It's over. Move on.
It might be useful if the real reasons for their appointment in the first place 'will be answered'. 'Until then the Mayo GAA public will not know the real reasons'.
The County Board has played this hand disastrously for over 12 months now. Answers are needed alright, but not the ones they are looking for.
I don't know muppet , sometimes it's just better to move on .
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2015, 05:21:12 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 18, 2015, 01:53:57 AM
One mess leads to another.
Maybe there will be questions from about what exactly.
The top table in CB showed poor judgement to try and ring-fence management from reproach at the end of the championship.
If they encourage this type of reaction then they are damaging us even more. Last year questions about a very dubious appointment were ridiculed and laughed out of hand. Delegates last year who expressed misgivings about H&C were ridiculed. If there are patsies in place to drive the agenda below, God Help us indeed.
The Connaught Telegraph understands that the process of getting a new senior county manager will not be a priority until the many questions regarding why Holmes and Connelly were hit with such a bombshell by the players are answered. It is hoped that the real reasons behind Holmes and Connelly's sudden departure will be answered when a full county board meeting is held next Monday night. Delegates attending the county board meeting are expected to raise a number of important questions and are also likely to ask the letter given by the players to the county board regarding their issues with the former joint managers, and what further demands they want with the appointment of a new manager or managers, to be read out. Until then the Mayo GAA public will not know what the real reasons, and who or what else besides the players, were behind to have to get Connelly and Holmes to resign.
It's over. Move on.
It might be useful if the real reasons for their appointment in the first place 'will be answered'. 'Until then the Mayo GAA public will not know the real reasons'.
The County Board has played this hand disastrously for over 12 months now. Answers are needed alright, but not the ones they are looking for.
Indeed. This current administration painted themselves into a corner. Management resigning has got them out. If they want to paint themselves into another corner by setting up a witch hunt let them belt away. Would be fun and pass a bit of the winter. The thing about witch-hunts is that those that start the hunt can end up on the bonfire themselves!
Anyone else hear that Michael Solan is the new U-21 manager?...If it's true, John Maughan might put his name forward for the Senior job!!
Any white smoke from Mchale Park? Did ye find out whats wrong yet?
How many Mayomen does it take to appoint a manager, it took 34 to sack the last ones.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 19, 2015, 08:38:06 PM
Anyone else hear that Michael Solan is the new U-21 manager?...If it's true, John Maughan might put his name forward for the Senior job!!
Club Mayo just tweeted it there a while back. Maybe Maughan did himself no favours with the comments he made.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 19, 2015, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 19, 2015, 08:38:06 PM
Anyone else hear that Michael Solan is the new U-21 manager?...If it's true, John Maughan might put his name forward for the Senior job!!
Club Mayo just tweeted it there a while back. Maybe Maughan did himself no favours with the comments he made.
Roscommon goes Mayo, Mayo goes Rossie.
Michael wouldn't have won rave reviews in Ballagh for his emergency job as manager when Mark Dowd stepped down but he's only a young lad all the same. Bit left-field for Mayo for this U21 team that carries a big mantle on their backs. Hopefully a clash of Ballagh managers in the Connacht final..
Clubs being asked to submit nominations for senior job by 1st Nov, with new management to be in place by 3rd week of Nov.
Quote from: Syferus on October 19, 2015, 10:12:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 19, 2015, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 19, 2015, 08:38:06 PM
Anyone else hear that Michael Solan is the new U-21 manager?...If it's true, John Maughan might put his name forward for the Senior job!!
Club Mayo just tweeted it there a while back. Maybe Maughan did himself no favours with the comments he made.
Roscommon goes Mayo, Mayo goes Rossie.
Michael wouldn't have won rave reviews in Ballagh for his emergency job as manager when Mark Dowd stepped down but he's only a young lad all the same. Bit left-field for Mayo for this U21 team that carries a big mantle on their backs. Hopefully a clash of Ballagh managers in the Connacht final..
Hey , you're not going to try and tell people in here the solans are Rossies. I don't think you know anything about who's who in ballagh .
What experience does Michael Solan have?
Of course, this appointment sets the Mayo Co Board up for another fall. If the Mayo U-21's flop again in 2016, people will say that Solan should never have got the job, in which case it will again be the Co Board's fault for giving him the job in the first place.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 20, 2015, 09:59:02 AM
What experience does Michael Solan have?
32 years-old, was named Ballagh manager in 2013 when Ballagh were scrambling for a manager. Not much experience honestly. But I think getting his brother attached to the ticket really must have helped his case - who knows what actual role Barry can have when his job has him in London a lot of the time.
Quote from: larryin89 on October 20, 2015, 03:18:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 19, 2015, 10:12:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 19, 2015, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 19, 2015, 08:38:06 PM
Anyone else hear that Michael Solan is the new U-21 manager?...If it's true, John Maughan might put his name forward for the Senior job!!
Club Mayo just tweeted it there a while back. Maybe Maughan did himself no favours with the comments he made.
Roscommon goes Mayo, Mayo goes Rossie.
Michael wouldn't have won rave reviews in Ballagh for his emergency job as manager when Mark Dowd stepped down but he's only a young lad all the same. Bit left-field for Mayo for this U21 team that carries a big mantle on their backs. Hopefully a clash of Ballagh managers in the Connacht final..
Hey , you're not going to try and tell people in here the solans are Rossies. I don't think you know anything about who's who in ballagh .
The who's who of Mayo people and Kilmovee blowins should be gathered in Nathy's this evening for the great man's autobiography. Sure maybe ye will give him another go?
Quote from: weareros on October 20, 2015, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on October 20, 2015, 03:18:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 19, 2015, 10:12:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 19, 2015, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 19, 2015, 08:38:06 PM
Anyone else hear that Michael Solan is the new U-21 manager?...If it's true, John Maughan might put his name forward for the Senior job!!
Club Mayo just tweeted it there a while back. Maybe Maughan did himself no favours with the comments he made.
Roscommon goes Mayo, Mayo goes Rossie.
Michael wouldn't have won rave reviews in Ballagh for his emergency job as manager when Mark Dowd stepped down but he's only a young lad all the same. Bit left-field for Mayo for this U21 team that carries a big mantle on their backs. Hopefully a clash of Ballagh managers in the Connacht final..
Hey , you're not going to try and tell people in here the solans are Rossies. I don't think you know anything about who's who in ballagh .
The who's who of Mayo people and Kilmovee blowins should be gathered in Nathy's this evening for the great man's autobiography. Sure maybe ye will give him another go?
Hardly worth his time now anyway...sure he won't be looking for many votes in Mayo this time around!
It's a wonder that he didn't choose somewhere in Mayo or Galway to launch it!!
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 20, 2015, 01:54:20 PM
It's a wonder that he didn't choose somewhere in Mayo or Galway to launch it!!
;D
So Maughan not the u21 manager, that can only mean one of 2 things,
1. Horan is coming back as senior manager, senior and u21 managers have to work together so that will not happen with Horan and Maughan or
2. Rochford is going to be senior manager with Maughan as his side kick.
Ye heard it from a Rossie first.
Maughan had the u21 job got so why was it changed and Solan is now the manager? The reason is one of the 2 stated, watch and see.
Lar, i think the Maughan rumour has sprung up from the fact that he didn't get the U-21 job, when he appeared odds on to do so. Suddenly, there's a conspiracy theory. .Can't see him coming back... Re Horan, his drive to work isn't that excessive, very little over 20 miles.. If as you say Lar, he doesn't go for it again, who else is there, if Rochford stays with Corofin.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 21, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
who else is there, if Rochford stays with Corofin.
Cakeen is now available ;D :D
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 21, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
who else is there, if Rochford stays with Corofin.
Cakeen is now available ;D :D
Don't see the Humour in that post at all Rossfan he was very close to winning a county club title this year with a team people would not have mentioned to be as close at start of the year and I expect he will be highly sought after for future roles. In semi final he schooled one of our county senior managers in tactics and yet some rossies are rubbing there hands at his appointment. Pathetic stuff.
On the actual forum topic would Mayo lads consider Paul Curran, Young manager who has had decent success with ballymun in Dublin and winning a championship with a Clann Na Ngeal team with not must expectation in his first year?
Quote from: Shannoncider on October 21, 2015, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 21, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
who else is there, if Rochford stays with Corofin.
Cakeen is now available ;D :D
Don't see the Humour in that post at all Rossfan he was very close to winning a county club title this year with a team people would not have mentioned to be as close at start of the year and I expect he will be highly sought after for future roles. In semi final he schooled one of our county senior managers in tactics and yet some rossies are rubbing there hands at his appointment. Pathetic stuff.
On the actual forum topic would Mayo lads consider Paul Curran, Young manager who has had decent success with ballymun in Dublin and winning a championship with a Clann Na Ngeal team with not must expectation in his first year?
Welcome to the board Cake
Quote from: rosnarun on October 21, 2015, 10:41:05 AM
Quote from: Shannoncider on October 21, 2015, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 21, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
who else is there, if Rochford stays with Corofin.
Cakeen is now available ;D :D
Don't see the Humour in that post at all Rossfan he was very close to winning a county club title this year with a team people would not have mentioned to be as close at start of the year and I expect he will be highly sought after for future roles. In semi final he schooled one of our county senior managers in tactics and yet some rossies are rubbing there hands at his appointment. Pathetic stuff.
On the actual forum topic would Mayo lads consider Paul Curran, Young manager who has had decent success with ballymun in Dublin and winning a championship with a Clann Na Ngeal team with not must expectation in his first year?
Welcome to the board Cake
:D :D
Well sussed Rosna.
Very bright team that Clann na
Ngeal
In a detailed statement to Monday night's Mayo County Board meeting, chairman Mike Connelly gave his account of the events that led to the resignations of joint senior managers Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes.
Connelly, a brother of Noel's, also revealed that he has enlisted the services of Pat Rowland, Managing Director of sponsors Elvery's Sports, to help with the provision of a facilitator between players and County Board to avoid a repeat of what has gone on in recent weeks.
The Mayo News reprints Connelly's statement in full and it reads: "To say I didn't see what was coming is an understatement. There was some rumour, but you always have some rumour when 11 players don't make the first 15, and eight don't make the first 26. The reason why I say this is that there was no communications [issues] during the year. As a Board, we did enjoy the year. Everyone seemed to be working well together – management with the County Board, County Board with players, and players and management.
"There was a communication process, and management selected seven players to discuss plans, tactics and issues. myself was always at training bar a very few sessions. I was in touch with the two players' reps, Keith [Higgins] and Cillian [O'Connor], through the year. Everything that the team and management requested from the County Board, they got.
"Yes, I was the liaison person with the team, and have been for the past number of years. And Pat Holmes asked me to continue in the role, because I'd been involved for the past number of years.
"I will explain the events of the last two to three weeks. On the 14th of September, I phoned Keith [Higgins] to set up a review meeting. He said he would contact Cillian [O'Connor] and he would get back to me. On Wednesday of the following week, I hadn't heard from Keith so I texted him. He texted me back to say that ... Thursday of the following week would suit him, and he would check with Cillian.
"On Sunday, the 27th of September, Pat Holmes got a phone call from Keith saying that himself and Cillian wanted to meet with him and Noel [Connelly]. They met at eight o'clock and Keith outlined that ... they were there to deliver a message. The message was that the team had a no-confidence motion passed 27-7 against them. Pat and Noel asked them for the reasons, but they had none.
"I was informed on [the] Sunday night late that there was issues with the panel, and that they were going to talk to some of the players on Monday. I was informed on Monday night late by Pat [Holmes] to tell me they would be considering their position.
"I contacted Keith on Tuesday by phone, saying that we needed to have the review meeting based on what was after happening. I also asked him would he prefer if someone other than myself attended the review meeting, and he said 'no'. We agreed a time of 8.30 for the following Thursday night, the 1st of October.
"I called an Executive meeting for Wednesday night. I brought them up to date on what happened. Needless to say, they were shocked. I provisionally booked another [Executive] meeting on Friday night to discuss the review meeting that was to happen on Thursday night with Keith and Cillian.
"On Thursday night, myself and [County Board vice-chairman] Seamus Tuohy and [Mayo GAA administrator] Michael Cummins [were] in the office waiting for Keith and Cillian, and at 8.30, Keith and Cillian arrived with most of the squad. Keith read out a letter. I told them I wasn't aware there was such big problems, and asked them why they took this route – could they not have met with the management and sorted it out? They didn't engage in the discussion and left the office.
"On Friday morning, I phoned Croke Park to explain the situation. I spoke with [GAA Director-General] Páraic Duffy and [GAA Head of Games Administration] Fergal McGill, and invited Fergal McGill down for an Executive meeting, which he did.
"I also got a call from Pat Holmes wanting to meet with myself and Vincent [Neary, County Board secretary]. As Vincent wasn't available, myself and Seamus Tuohy met with Pat Holmes and Noel [Connelly], and they told us they had their decision made.
"I invited Pat and Noel to the Executive meeting. The meeting was scheduled for seven o'clock that evening. The meeting started at seven and Fergal McGill briefed the meeting based on his experience dealing with issues in other counties.
"At around 7.20, Pat and Noel arrived into the Executive meeting. Pat spoke for 15 to 20 minutes, giving a detailed account of the year. When he was finished, he handed the letter of resignation, which the [County Board] secretary read out. As Vincent [Neary] read the letter, I could see some of the Executive getting very emotional, and the tears were running down their faces, and you have to ask 'Why?' They knew that there was a great mistake being made.
"We don't know why this all happened, but does it make any difference at this stage? Knowing the reasons is not going to change anything. And you can be critical of the County Board, management or players, but before you criticise, make sure that you know the full facts.
"The one thing I do know [is] this situation must never happen again. Before we appoint a new manager, we need to put a charter together between the team and the County Board. I've asked Pat Rowland of Elverys [sponsors] to provide a facilitator to tease out the issues and provide a charter that is acceptable to the players and the County Board. [So] if there's issues in the future, there will be a road map to solving the issues internally.
"My position in this ... is being questioned, and thankfully, my conscience is very clear. Should I have been the liaison officer with the team? Maybe not. But the decision was made based on me being involved with the team for the last number of years. The decision was also made in the best interest of the team. I also made the decision that I would communicate with Pat Holmes on all issues, which I did, and it worked very well.
"At this point, I'd like to thank Pat and Noel and their back-room team for their work and their dedication through the year. They left no stone unturned. Thank you for your attention."
After delegates had their say, the Chairman added: "That's basically what happened. And I suppose to follow up from that, on the following Sunday, I phoned Keith Higgins and I requested to meet him. I met with Keith, and we had a brief discussion, and I told him that I wasn't interested in what has gone on in the past, but what we need to do is we need to solve the problems for the future.
"So I set up a meeting on Monday evening with Pat Rowland [of sponsors Elverys], myself, Andy Moran and Keith, and we discussed the way forward, the solution for the way forward, and we all agreed ... to bring in an outside, independent person to investigate the issues that the players may have, and maybe problems that the County Board might have, and to come up with a charter that is going to be workable with both the players and the management and County Board.
"So that hopefully will be happening in the next six to eight days, and I do propose that we put the nominations out for a new manager from tonight [Monday, October 19] with a closing date for the first of November.
"There has been a lot of talk and there has been a lot of reports and there has been a lot of different things out there, and I don't think ... There's no point in going back. We are where we are. We need to solve this problem, and ... as I said, we need to put a road map in place where this never happens again.
"This has been very difficult for us all. Very difficult for myself and Vincent [Neary] and JP [Lambe, County Board treasurer] and Aiden [McLoughlin, County Board PRO] and Seamus Tuohy, because our time has been totally taken up on this ... We had planned our time on doing other things for the organisation. So that's where it's at. That's giving it to you right up to date."
Thanks for posting that Manc..If Horan doesn't get the job, why don't Andy Moran and Alan Dillon form the 'dreamteam' and show everyone how it should be done?
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 21, 2015, 03:39:57 PM
Thanks for posting that Manc..If Horan doesn't get the job, why don't Andy Moran and Alan Dillon form the 'dreamteam' and show everyone how it should be done?
Andy is still Mayo's best forward from play.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on October 21, 2015, 10:41:05 AM
Quote from: Shannoncider on October 21, 2015, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 21, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
who else is there, if Rochford stays with Corofin.
Cakeen is now available ;D :D
Don't see the Humour in that post at all Rossfan he was very close to winning a county club title this year with a team people would not have mentioned to be as close at start of the year and I expect he will be highly sought after for future roles. In semi final he schooled one of our county senior managers in tactics and yet some rossies are rubbing there hands at his appointment. Pathetic stuff.
On the actual forum topic would Mayo lads consider Paul Curran, Young manager who has had decent success with ballymun in Dublin and winning a championship with a Clann Na Ngeal team with not must expectation in his first year?
Welcome to the board Cake
:D :D
Well sussed Rosna.
Very bright team that Clann na Ngeal
Do you need spelling lessons? that's the correct spelling you bellend
Quote from: Shannoncider on October 21, 2015, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on October 21, 2015, 10:41:05 AM
Quote from: Shannoncider on October 21, 2015, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 21, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
who else is there, if Rochford stays with Corofin.
Cakeen is now available ;D :D
Don't see the Humour in that post at all Rossfan he was very close to winning a county club title this year with a team people would not have mentioned to be as close at start of the year and I expect he will be highly sought after for future roles. In semi final he schooled one of our county senior managers in tactics and yet some rossies are rubbing there hands at his appointment. Pathetic stuff.
On the actual forum topic would Mayo lads consider Paul Curran, Young manager who has had decent success with ballymun in Dublin and winning a championship with a Clann Na Ngeal team with not must expectation in his first year?
Welcome to the board Cake
:D :D
Well sussed Rosna.
Very bright team that Clann na Ngeal
Do you need spelling lessons? that's the correct spelling you bellend
Are you sure about that!!??
Have to say it's the first time that i've seen it spelt that.
Quote from: Shannoncider on October 21, 2015, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on October 21, 2015, 10:41:05 AM
Quote from: Shannoncider on October 21, 2015, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 21, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
who else is there, if Rochford stays with Corofin.
Cakeen is now available ;D :D
Don't see the Humour in that post at all Rossfan he was very close to winning a county club title this year with a team people would not have mentioned to be as close at start of the year and I expect he will be highly sought after for future roles. In semi final he schooled one of our county senior managers in tactics and yet some rossies are rubbing there hands at his appointment. Pathetic stuff.
On the actual forum topic would Mayo lads consider Paul Curran, Young manager who has had decent success with ballymun in Dublin and winning a championship with a Clann Na Ngeal team with not must expectation in his first year?
Welcome to the board Cake
:D :D
Well sussed Rosna.
Very bright team that Clann na Ngeal
Do you need spelling lessons? that's the correct spelling you bellend
This buck gets funnier and funnier
Great. We've Roscommon posters correcting each others' spelling mistakes on the thread too. :)
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 05:30:38 PM
It's -
Clan na nGael.
Now back to our manager less neighbours ;)
It's actually Clann na nGael.
Quote from: Syferus on October 21, 2015, 06:17:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2015, 05:30:38 PM
It's -
Clan na nGael.
Now back to our manager less neighbours ;)
It's actually Clann na nGael.
Comedy gold, cheers guys. ;D
When nominations (Rochford and Horan) close on Nov 1, is there a possibility that the Mayo Co Board could introduce another candidate to the race, like they did with John Maughan and the U-21 job?
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 21, 2015, 06:50:48 PM
When nominations (Rochford and Horan) close on Nov 1, is there a possibility that the Mayo Co Board could introduce another candidate to the race, like they did with John Maughan and the U-21 job?
I suppose there is. I can't see them doing that this time. I think Maughan's comments may have pushed the boat too much for the players, and Co. Board. I'm only going on my gut feeling though...
Would agree with that Farr. After what Maughan said about the H and C situation, it would be very hard to see the players taking to him in a managerial situation...With no definite date for the end of Rochford's stint with Corofin, this has to be Horan's job. When is the Connacht Club final?
I think it's the 22nd of November.
Holy smoley , I hope it's rubbish .
Any of ye at O'Mahoney's book launch last nigh in ballagh? Anyone from county board there??
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 21, 2015, 11:40:51 PM
Any of ye at O'Mahoney's book launch last nigh in ballagh? Anyone from county board there??
Many's a day I had Badmintion in that Nathys gym (the PE teacher didn't want to take them down once he put them up), but Li Hayes was the VIP on the night.
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 21, 2015, 11:40:51 PM
Any of ye at O'Mahoney's book launch last nigh in ballagh? Anyone from county board there??
Would not cross the road to it.
The appointment procedure is farcical. With the U21 job the CB asked clubs to nominate potential managers. When they did the CB looked at the two candidates and figured that they weren't up to the job and approached John Maughan. As I posted before, this was the smart move as you were at least getting someone of ability. However when Maughan withdraws the CB go ahead and appoint one of the two they had already dismissed instead of reopening the process and headhunting a manager as any efficient management body would.
Fast forward to the Senior management and we get the same old hat pretence at democracy where clubs are asked to nominate. In the event of neither Horan or Rochford being interested how are a club to approach a potential manager unless he is known to them. Does the Chairman of Kiltane, Davitts or Kilmovee pick up the phone and ring Paul Curran, Jason Ryan or Pudsy Ryan and ask would he be willing to put his name forward. Surely it would be better to allow those interested to apply directly or have a Selection Comm find a manager or at least for a panel to be interviewed.
Now we have a facilitator to find common ground between the CB and the players. When will the Clubs of the county demand that their needs, the needs of the ordinary club player and the needs of the nurturing and development of games in the county be paramount. I have nothing but admiration for our county players and the highest regard for James Horan, John Maughan et al who gave us great service as managers but I don't want a Donegal solution where a ball isn't kicked seriously within the county until the "Search for Sam" or the "Fix for Six" is over.
Quote from: maigheo on October 22, 2015, 12:20:13 AM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 21, 2015, 11:40:51 PM
Any of ye at O'Mahoney's book launch last nigh in ballagh? Anyone from county board there??
Would not cross the road to it.
;D Good man maigheo.
Apparently, there was a very large attendance at that book launch the other night. It was the biggest gathering of Mayo people (and Ballagh sympathisers) seen in Co Roscommon since last July's Connacht Final!!
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 22, 2015, 03:25:03 PM
Apparently, there was a very large attendance at that book launch the other night. It was the biggest gathering of Mayo people (and Ballagh sympathisers) seen in Co Roscommon since last July's Connacht Final!!
Glad to hear that. Expect the book to be flying off the shelves so.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 22, 2015, 03:25:03 PM
Apparently, there was a very large attendance at that book launch the other night. It was the biggest gathering of Mayo people (and Ballagh sympathisers) seen in Co Roscommon since last July's Connacht Final!!
Definitely one for the bonfire.
Quote from: Mac2 on October 23, 2015, 11:43:02 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 22, 2015, 03:25:03 PM
Apparently, there was a very large attendance at that book launch the other night. It was the biggest gathering of Mayo people (and Ballagh sympathisers) seen in Co Roscommon since last July's Connacht Final!!
Definitely one for the bonfire.
Jesus ye have an awful lot of hate for Johnno. Still the best manager Mayo have produced in over half a century.
Saw in the paper Horan won't be returning. It said Tony McEntee could be part of a possible management team with Rochford.
McEntee was linked with the job last year. He would toughen up that Mayo full back line.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 23, 2015, 01:12:58 PM
Saw in the paper Horan won't be returning. It said Tony McEntee could be part of a possible management team with Rochford.
McEntee was linked with the job last year. He would toughen up that Mayo full back line.
So the players threw out their manager and didn't even get the man they wanted. Nothing to see here.
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 12:58:42 PM
Quote from: Mac2 on October 23, 2015, 11:43:02 AM
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 22, 2015, 03:25:03 PM
Apparently, there was a very large attendance at that book launch the other night. It was the biggest gathering of Mayo people (and Ballagh sympathisers) seen in Co Roscommon since last July's Connacht Final!!
Definitely one for the bonfire.
Jesus ye have an awful lot of hate for Johnno. Still the best manager Mayo Ghollwhey have produced in over half a century.
Fixed that.
The hate here for O'Mahony has little to do with GAA and a lot to do with politics, but lads won't say that.
Ballagh, the town that lumps it's lot into Co Roscommon for elections, County Council grants, Irish Sports Council funding, Leader funding, Clar funding, BMW funding, Community Games competitions and much much more
but in Mayo for GAA
you tell me where the chip on the shoulder lies
Quote from: neilthemac on October 23, 2015, 02:04:44 PM
Ballagh, the town that lumps it's lot into Co Roscommon for elections, County Council grants, Irish Sports Council funding, Leader funding, Clar funding, BMW funding, Community Games competitions and much much more
but in Mayo for GAA
you tell me where the chip on the shoulder lies
You for a start. ;D
Quote from: muppet on October 23, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
The hate here for O'Mahony has little to do with GAA and a lot to do with politics, but lads won't say that.
no its a mixture of both
mainly because O mahoney took the Mayo Job the second time for policital purposes and made a balls of it
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 23, 2015, 01:12:58 PM
Saw in the paper Horan won't be returning. It said Tony McEntee could be part of a possible management team with Rochford.
McEntee was linked with the job last year. He would toughen up that Mayo full back line.
Here's the article:
Mayo want McEntee to join management team
Irish Daily Mail23 Oct 2015By MICHEAL CLIFFORD
TONY McENTEE could be part of the Mayo football management team next season. It is understood that the Crossmaglen All-Ireland winning manager has been contacted about the possibility of working with Stephen Rochford — the odds-on favourite to be named as manager next month. McEntee is regarded as one of the hottest coaching talents in the game and is currently managing prestigious Dublin club St Brigid's, but is understood to be keen to get involved in a senior position at inter-county level. Already this autumn, he turned down an approach from Down to take on their team, a position he was interviewed for, and made an impression, last year before the county board baulked at the proposed budgetary commitment. However, he remains interested in getting into the inter-county game. McEntee, a member of Armagh's historic 2002 All-Ireland-winning team, made a sensational start in management when, along with Gareth O'Neill, he led Crossmaglen to back-to-back All-Ireland titles and three
Ulster titles in a row between 2011 to 2013. The logistics involved in travelling to Mayo is one of the considerations which McEntee (right) will have to factor in, but the prospect of working with the five-in-a-row Connacht champions is likely to prove appealing. While nominations for the Mayo manager's position will remain open until November 1, privately it is accepted that the search to replace the ill-fated Pat Holmes/ Noel Connelly one-year reign will not take long. Holmes and Connelly stepped down after receiving a vote of no confidence from the Mayo panel early this month. It is understood that contact was made with Crossmolina native and Corofin All-Ireland winning manager Rochford last week, who has publicly declared his desire to manage his native county. While former manager James Horan has been linked with the job and has not moved publicly to quell speculation of a return, it is understood he is no longer considered to be in the frame for consideration by board chiefs. This week board chairman Mike Connelly confirmed that the manager would be in place by the third week of next month at the latest.
Third week of November. You'd have to wonder when the dust settles with such a late appointment has all the drama really improved Mayo's chances in 2016 at all?
Stop worrying about your effin rhubarb mates Syfín. >:(
We expect it from him, he can't help himself. But the rest of ye are as bad in this thread. Fck sake lads, have a bit of self-respect and not be obsessing over your neighbours.
Quote from: Tubberman on October 23, 2015, 04:00:55 PM
We expect it from him, he can't help himself. But the rest of ye are as bad in this thread. Fck sake lads, have a bit of self-respect and not be obsessing over your neighbours.
Hard to argue with the point made so you go for the man. Understandable in the circumstances I guess.
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 04:04:50 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on October 23, 2015, 04:00:55 PM
We expect it from him, he can't help himself. But the rest of ye are as bad in this thread. Fck sake lads, have a bit of self-respect and not be obsessing over your neighbours.
Hard to argue with the point made so you go for the man. Understandable in the circumstances I guess.
What point? Will we be better in 2016? How can I (or anyone) answer that when the new mgmt haven't been appointed yet!?
If you consider that playing the man, you're a delicate flower.
But if we were to end up with Rochford and McEntee, I would be very satisfied indeed. I don't think we'd be behind in any meaningful way by not having them appointed in October...
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
Third week of November. You'd have to wonder when the dust settles with such a late appointment has all the drama really improved Mayo's chances in 2016 at all?
So what are other county managers doing this time of the year? No meaningful fixture for months yet.
Besides its not like next manager will be doing a root and branch review of the panel. Might be 4/5 personnel changes.
Relax Sy. It's a long time until next Aug! ;)
Quote from: Tubberman on October 23, 2015, 02:40:48 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 23, 2015, 01:12:58 PM
Saw in the paper Horan won't be returning. It said Tony McEntee could be part of a possible management team with Rochford.
McEntee was linked with the job last year. He would toughen up that Mayo full back line.
Here's the article:
Mayo want McEntee to join management team
Irish Daily Mail23 Oct 2015By MICHEAL CLIFFORD
TONY McENTEE could be part of the Mayo football management team next season. It is understood that the Crossmaglen All-Ireland winning manager has been contacted about the possibility of working with Stephen Rochford — the odds-on favourite to be named as manager next month. McEntee is regarded as one of the hottest coaching talents in the game and is currently managing prestigious Dublin club St Brigid's, but is understood to be keen to get involved in a senior position at inter-county level. Already this autumn, he turned down an approach from Down to take on their team, a position he was interviewed for, and made an impression, last year before the county board baulked at the proposed budgetary commitment. However, he remains interested in getting into the inter-county game. McEntee, a member of Armagh's historic 2002 All-Ireland-winning team, made a sensational start in management when, along with Gareth O'Neill, he led Crossmaglen to back-to-back All-Ireland titles and three
Ulster titles in a row between 2011 to 2013. The logistics involved in travelling to Mayo is one of the considerations which McEntee (right) will have to factor in, but the prospect of working with the five-in-a-row Connacht champions is likely to prove appealing. While nominations for the Mayo manager's position will remain open until November 1, privately it is accepted that the search to replace the ill-fated Pat Holmes/ Noel Connelly one-year reign will not take long. Holmes and Connelly stepped down after receiving a vote of no confidence from the Mayo panel early this month. It is understood that contact was made with Crossmolina native and Corofin All-Ireland winning manager Rochford last week, who has publicly declared his desire to manage his native county. While former manager James Horan has been linked with the job and has not moved publicly to quell speculation of a return, it is understood he is no longer considered to be in the frame for consideration by board chiefs. This week board chairman Mike Connelly confirmed that the manager would be in place by the third week of next month at the latest.
What happened that he is no longer in the frame?
Quote from: muppet on October 23, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
The hate here for O'Mahony has little to do with GAA and a lot to do with politics, but lads won't say that.
I'd be one of those who dislike him because of political persuasion. I don't remember Johnno part 1. His second coming didn't inspire much. That's the main reason I amn't his fan.
Quote from: moysider on October 23, 2015, 04:24:17 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on October 23, 2015, 02:40:48 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 23, 2015, 01:12:58 PM
Saw in the paper Horan won't be returning. It said Tony McEntee could be part of a possible management team with Rochford.
McEntee was linked with the job last year. He would toughen up that Mayo full back line.
Here's the article:
Mayo want McEntee to join management team
Irish Daily Mail23 Oct 2015By MICHEAL CLIFFORD
TONY McENTEE could be part of the Mayo football management team next season. It is understood that the Crossmaglen All-Ireland winning manager has been contacted about the possibility of working with Stephen Rochford — the odds-on favourite to be named as manager next month. McEntee is regarded as one of the hottest coaching talents in the game and is currently managing prestigious Dublin club St Brigid's, but is understood to be keen to get involved in a senior position at inter-county level. Already this autumn, he turned down an approach from Down to take on their team, a position he was interviewed for, and made an impression, last year before the county board baulked at the proposed budgetary commitment. However, he remains interested in getting into the inter-county game. McEntee, a member of Armagh's historic 2002 All-Ireland-winning team, made a sensational start in management when, along with Gareth O'Neill, he led Crossmaglen to back-to-back All-Ireland titles and three
Ulster titles in a row between 2011 to 2013. The logistics involved in travelling to Mayo is one of the considerations which McEntee (right) will have to factor in, but the prospect of working with the five-in-a-row Connacht champions is likely to prove appealing. While nominations for the Mayo manager's position will remain open until November 1, privately it is accepted that the search to replace the ill-fated Pat Holmes/ Noel Connelly one-year reign will not take long. Holmes and Connelly stepped down after receiving a vote of no confidence from the Mayo panel early this month. It is understood that contact was made with Crossmolina native and Corofin All-Ireland winning manager Rochford last week, who has publicly declared his desire to manage his native county. While former manager James Horan has been linked with the job and has not moved publicly to quell speculation of a return, it is understood he is no longer considered to be in the frame for consideration by board chiefs. This week board chairman Mike Connelly confirmed that the manager would be in place by the third week of next month at the latest.
What happened that he is no longer in the frame?
I don't know. But last week Aiden Henry had his usual swipe at Horan and at that stage thought he was a shoo-in.
A few weeks ago, some Mayo people poured cold water on Kevin Mc Stay's appointment as Roscommon manager, because he had ''no inter county experience'' and was ''unproven'' at inter county level.. So it will be fascinating to observe those people's reactions in a few week's time if Rochford/Mc Entee get the Mayo job, considering that they too, have no inter county experience and are unproven at inter county level....Don't rule Horan out yet.
Quote from: Tubberman on October 23, 2015, 04:19:32 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 04:04:50 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on October 23, 2015, 04:00:55 PM
We expect it from him, he can't help himself. But the rest of ye are as bad in this thread. Fck sake lads, have a bit of self-respect and not be obsessing over your neighbours.
Hard to argue with the point made so you go for the man. Understandable in the circumstances I guess.
What point? Will we be better in 2016? How can I (or anyone) answer that when the new mgmt haven't been appointed yet!?
If you consider that playing the man, you're a delicate flower.
But if we were to end up with Rochford and McEntee, I would be very satisfied indeed. I don't think we'd be behind in any meaningful way by not having them appointed in October...
I can guarantee you if it goes tits up for Rochford or whoever next year one of the first excuses out of their mouths will be the late appointment and lack of preparation time.
I just think with such a shortened timetable even two good men (Rochford and McEntee both would be deserving of an IC job at some point) is hardly going to be much better at the job than two men who have a year under their belts and a full off-season. I think this coup was ill-timed whatever way you look at it. The players have only succeeded in making their jobs harder from what I can see.
Mayo are aiming to win now and this off-season wrangling in November is not what you need when that's your goal.
Where is this Rochford/ McEntee thing coming from? Do they even know one another?
We read the Chairman's statement.
He said that there were no reasons given by the players for the heave and the players' collective silence would seem to verify this. Thus there was obviously no demand by the players, communicated to the CB, as to whom the new manager should be. Otherwise it could have reasonably been assumed that a reason for the vote against Pat & Noel, was that they wanted someone specific instead.
So if the players didn't demand James back, and I would think it was unlikely the CB would rush to bring him back, particularly under perceived duress, where did the story about James being a shoe in come from?
I am thinking that story was rubbish.
The Irish Daily Mail ffs, isn't that the same paper that had the details of players who supposedly voted for H&C to stay? Sounds like bollix to me although I'd be delighted with a Rochford / McEntee combo - one as manager, one as selector though cos the dogs on the street know that joint managers don't work ;)
Tony McEntee was a joint manager with Gareth O'Neill when Crossmaglen won back to back All Irelands. Tony has has found outright management tougher I think it was St Judes that beat his St Brigids outfit the last two years in the championship.
Quote from: moysider on October 23, 2015, 05:04:56 PM
Where is this Rochford/ McEntee thing coming from? Do they even know one another?
Let's see. McEntee is from Armagh. Billy Joe was/is based there. Willie Joe and Maughan are joined at the hip. Rochford is from Cross(molina), as is Maughan and McEntee (Crossmaglen). Connelly in the oil business. Lots of oil along the border. Must be the makings of a dastardly, deceitful, conspiracy involving some/all members of the CB, Dissident Players, Murky Ex -Managers, Bag men, Swag men etc.
Entries, not exceeding 2000 words, to be received by April 1.
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 05:03:22 PM
Mayo are aiming to win now
So that's where they've been going wrong ;D ::)
Quote from: mrhardyannual on October 23, 2015, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 23, 2015, 05:04:56 PM
Where is this Rochford/ McEntee thing coming from? Do they even know one another?
Let's see. McEntee is from Armagh. Billy Joe was/is based there. Willie Joe and Maughan are joined at the hip. Rochford is from Cross(molina), as is Maughan and McEntee (Crossmaglen). Connelly in the oil business. Lots of oil along the border. Must be the makings of a dastardly, deceitful, conspiracy involving some/all members of the CB, Dissident Players, Murky Ex -Managers, Bag men, Swag men etc.
Entries, not exceeding 2000 words, to be received by April 1.
You left out Shell. Shell to Sea. Shell about to start pumping gas. Players pumping iron. But some need more gas.
All connected.
(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia2.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FS3Ot3hZ5bcy8o%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2015, 03:45:16 PM
Stop worrying about your effin rhubarb mates Syfín. >:(
Fair play, Ross. I been thinking that way for a long time but I was too polite to say it. ;D
Have to say I d be happy with either Rochford or McEntee. Just not sure where both together is coming from? Surely not another joint manager scenario? Rochford as manager and McEntee as coach or vice versa?
Is Donie Buckley likely to have a role again?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 23, 2015, 09:41:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2015, 03:45:16 PM
Stop worrying about your effin rhubarb mates Syfín. >:(
Fair play, Ross. I been thinking that way for a long time but I was too polite to say it. ;D
Big Tom coming up the Late Late. Calling a truce until it's over.
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 06:04:26 PM
The Irish Daily Mail ffs, isn't that the same paper that had the details of players who supposedly voted for H&C to stay? Sounds like bollix to me although I'd be delighted with a Rochford / McEntee combo - one as manager, one as selector though cos the dogs on the street know that joint managers don't work ;)
A selector? McEntee isn't going to travel over 3 hours to Mayo, to be a selector. He will either be the coach or a joint manager.
His articles in the past with the examiner gave an indication that he might like to work with Mayo.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 23, 2015, 11:32:23 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 06:04:26 PM
The Irish Daily Mail ffs, isn't that the same paper that had the details of players who supposedly voted for H&C to stay? Sounds like bollix to me although I'd be delighted with a Rochford / McEntee combo - one as manager, one as selector though cos the dogs on the street know that joint managers don't work ;)
A selector? McEntee isn't going to travel over 3 hours to Mayo, to be a selector. He will either be the coach or a joint manager.
His articles in the past with the examiner gave an indication that he might like to work with Mayo.
Sorry, I didn't necessarily mean selector, just that if there were two involved that it'd be preferable if one was the bossman and the other a coach / selector / whatever. As moysider says though, I don't know that they actually know each other, probably just some journalist throwing two names together
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
Third week of November. You'd have to wonder when the dust settles with such a late appointment has all the drama really improved Mayo's chances in 2016 at all?
you remind me of a smoke detector with a low battery-an annoying fuckin squak every now and again!
Quote from: sans pessimism on October 24, 2015, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
Third week of November. You'd have to wonder when the dust settles with such a late appointment has all the drama really improved Mayo's chances in 2016 at all?
you remind me of a smoke detector with a low battery-an annoying fuckin squak every now and again!
If you think getting a new manager by the middle of November improves your chances for 2016 then fire ahead Sans.
Quote from: Syferus on October 24, 2015, 01:23:16 AM
Quote from: sans pessimism on October 24, 2015, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
Third week of November. You'd have to wonder when the dust settles with such a late appointment has all the drama really improved Mayo's chances in 2016 at all?
you remind me of a smoke detector with a low battery-an annoying fuckin squak every now and again!
If you think getting a new manager by the middle of November improves your chances for 2016 then fire ahead Sans.
Still , must be a worrying thought to think a lot people would say Mayo wouldn't even need a manger to win their sixth in row out west such is their superiority over Roscommon and Galway .
Quote from: sans pessimism on October 24, 2015, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
Third week of November. You'd have to wonder when the dust settles with such a late appointment has all the drama really improved Mayo's chances in 2016 at all?
you remind me of a smoke detector with a low battery-an annoying fuckin squak every now and again!
:D ;D :D ;D
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 24, 2015, 12:39:12 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 23, 2015, 11:32:23 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 06:04:26 PM
The Irish Daily Mail ffs, isn't that the same paper that had the details of players who supposedly voted for H&C to stay? Sounds like bollix to me although I'd be delighted with a Rochford / McEntee combo - one as manager, one as selector though cos the dogs on the street know that joint managers don't work ;)
A selector? McEntee isn't going to travel over 3 hours to Mayo, to be a selector. He will either be the coach or a joint manager.
His articles in the past with the examiner gave an indication that he might like to work with Mayo.
Sorry, I didn't necessarily mean selector, just that if there were two involved that it'd be preferable if one was the bossman and the other a coach / selector / whatever. As moysider says though, I don't know that they actually know each other, probably just some journalist throwing two names together
Buckley to stay on say the reports
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=245942
Stephen Rochford is in the process of assembling a high-powered backroom team to boost his bid to take over as Mayo senior football manager.
Nominations close tomorrow week and the Examiner reports that bookies favourite Rochford is hoping to retain the services of coach Donie Buckley for 2016.
In addition, he is looking to bring Crossmaglen and Armagh All-Ireland winner Tony McEntee on board.
McEntee is currently involved with St Brigid's of Dublin and it is envisaged that he would take training sessions in the capital.
Former Irish rugby international Gavin Duffy could also play a part on the strength and conditioning side which will still be overseen by Barry Solan, who is now employed by Arsenal on a contract basis.
Ex-Limerick manager Maurice Horan, a native of Ballinrobe, has also been linked with a role in Rochford's team.
He currently lives in Tralee and was involved with Kerins O'Rahillys this season
I see Barry Solan's name attached to a lot of things in Mayo but how much he can actually contribute with a job in London I don't know.
Considering that Rochford has already publically declared his commitment to Corofin, while they remain in the club championship, can someone tell me how would he also fit in the Mayo job into his schedule, considering that Corofin could potentially be in action until Paddy's Day.
He'll have to do both.
Quote from: Syferus on October 24, 2015, 01:09:29 PM
I see Barry Solan's name attached to a lot of things in Mayo but how much he can actually contribute with a job in London I don't know.
No, and neither do I but the difference is that I don't give two flying f**ks about it. If he says he can contribute and nobody involved with the team says otherwise,that's good enough for me.
Anyway, don't worry too much about it or anything else to do with Mayo football. We're doing grand as it is.
Could some one please start up an FBD thread.It will give the Rossies something to debate about rather than advising us about appointing our next manager.
Quote from: maigheo on October 24, 2015, 06:40:07 PM
Could some one please start up an FBD thread.It will give the Rossies something to debate about rather than advising us about appointing our next manager.
Nothing could distract from this monumental act of hand-wringing.
Interesting that the near-universal sentiment in Mayo seems to be the players are blameless lambs (or somehow heroes for axing their managers) despite being the men out on the field unable to hold onto leads or kick points. The Mayo CB deserve plenty of blame but it seems they've now got so much of it that perspective has been lost.
Lads and lassies try and see the bigger picture with the Rossies, it's a lifetime since they even beat us and they now somehow think they have one hand on the Nestor cup because of the management situation in Mayo weighed up against the appointment of Kevin mc stay and o Donnell in their own field .
They tend to forget the realities of getting beat by a team we absolutely annihilated and that only a short few months ago in the White Heat of championship.
Paddy the barber does championship haircuts in October didn't ya know.
, Would the Mayo players tolerate their new manager double jobbing? After all, we've just seen the high standards they demand from management, when even getting to an All Ireland Semi Final Replay isn't acceptable to them. Wait until they lose a league match, and Rochford misses the next training session because he's gone training with Corofin.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 24, 2015, 08:07:08 PM
, Would the Mayo players tolerate their new manager double jobbing? After all, we've just seen the high standards they demand from management, when even getting to an All Ireland Semi Final Replay isn't acceptable to them. Wait until they lose a league match, and Rochford misses the next training session because he's gone training with Corofin.
Has Rochford been nominated yet? Or will the CB parachute him in like they did with Maughan and the u-21 position. By the way Shrewdness, I'd chuckle to myself if it was any other county you were talking about.
I've been chuckling for the last month at the Rhubarbgate managerial appointment system.
And also at silly Syfín's obsession with all things Rhu.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2015, 08:31:15 PM
I've been chuckling for the last month at the Rhubarbgate managerial appointment system.
And also at silly Syfín's obsession with all things Rhu.
At least we keep ye entertained one way or another for most of the year ;)
Twould be a short year indeed if we was looking to Roserbijan for distraction.
"We was"....
Tut tut. :D
Quote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
"We was"....
Tut tut. :D
What's it like to be a pedantic, cranky person?
Really, I want to know.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
"We was"....
Tut tut. :D
I were being deliberately casual with my expression there Rossfan. Thought it apt for some reason or other.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
"We was"....
Tut tut. :D
Tell you what Ross...
Suppose me and the rest of the Mayo heads club together and buy GPS systems for you and syf and shrewdness.
Then maybe you could find the way back to yeer own manager thread./
If ye don't pull out soon, ye will miss the action. McStay won't last pissing time because when he strts up with his "shot selection" and "carrying the ball oonto the tackle" and all the other crap tems he introduced to the world, your woolly sheep will turn into rams and chase him out of the county.
I mean ye did that to Maughan who outranked McStay.
If the whole effion' lot of ye don't move soon, he'll collide with you as you go one way and he'll be going the other with some of yer neanthardal fans in hot pursuit.
Them oul GPS things tell me Ballaghaderreen is in Roscommon so maybe the 3 of us could meet there.
No need for any further comment on our manager thread as we're sorted and are looking forward to the glory days ahead.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 25, 2015, 12:29:14 AM
Them oul GPS things tell me Ballaghaderreen is in Roscommon so maybe the 3 of us could meet there.
No need for any further comment on our manager thread as we're sorted and are looking forward to the glory days ahead.
.
The glory days are nigh Rossfan. I honestly believe that ye can retain d'oul FBD. Not something to be sniffed at in fairness.
I see the Mayo posters are indulging in some sledging again with the Rossies the victims as usual.. It's disappointing..,Getting back to the thread topic. I don't have a link for this, but apparently, in the Irish Daily Mail on October 4, Tony Mc Entee criticised the Mayo players for their heave against Holmes and Connelly. It will make an interesting backdrop if he does get involved.
McEntee has been very underwhelming at St Brigids in Dublin
Quote from: Rossfan on October 25, 2015, 12:29:14 AM
Them oul GPS things tell me Ballaghaderreen is in Roscommon so maybe the 3 of us could meet there.
No need for any further comment on our manager thread as we're sorted and are looking forward to the glory days ahead.
Is everything ok, Ross?
You seem to be off your oats.
Time was that I didn't have to wait more than ten minutes for a reply from you.
But two hours and eight minutes away from a Mayo thread!
You're slowing down, my friend, slowing down. ;D
In the All Ireland 'Masters' Semi Final yesterday, Galway beat Mayo by 0-11 to 0-9...Will probably lead to another Mayo heave with a players' letter being drafted as we speak ;D
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 25, 2015, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 25, 2015, 12:29:14 AM
Them oul GPS things tell me Ballaghaderreen is in Roscommon so maybe the 3 of us could meet there.
No need for any further comment on our manager thread as we're sorted and are looking forward to the glory days ahead.
Is everything ok, Ross?
You seem to be off your oats.
Time was that I didn't have to wait more than ten minutes for a reply from you.
But two hours and eight minutes away from a Mayo thread!
You're slowing down, my friend, slowing down. ;D
I think it's "Rhubarbgate fatigue" setting in Lar.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 25, 2015, 08:59:55 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 25, 2015, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 25, 2015, 12:29:14 AM
Them oul GPS things tell me Ballaghaderreen is in Roscommon so maybe the 3 of us could meet there.
No need for any further comment on our manager thread as we're sorted and are looking forward to the glory days ahead.
Is everything ok, Ross?
You seem to be off your oats.
Time was that I didn't have to wait more than ten minutes for a reply from you.
But two hours and eight minutes away from a Mayo thread!
You're slowing down, my friend, slowing down. ;D
I think it's "Rhubarbgate fatigue" setting in Lar.
Good to see you back in normal mode again. I had only 43 mins to wait for your reply this time.
Hard to get the energy to keep up with ye angsty lads.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 25, 2015, 12:23:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
"We was"....
Tut tut. :D
Tell you what Ross...
Suppose me and the rest of the Mayo heads club together and buy GPS systems for you and syf and shrewdness.
Then maybe you could find the way back to yeer own manager thread./
If ye don't pull out soon, ye will miss the action. McStay won't last pissing time because when he strts up with his "shot selection" and "carrying the ball oonto the tackle" and all the other crap tems he introduced to the world, your woolly sheep will turn into rams and chase him out of the county.
I mean ye did that to Maughan who outranked McStay.
If the whole effion' lot of ye don't move soon, he'll collide with you as you go one way and he'll be going the other with some of yer neanthardal fans in hot pursuit.
Where exactly are we chasing him to Lar? He's lived half of his life here and his daughters are die-hard Rossies.
If it's Rochford who gets your job it sounds like he's going to be looking for the same sort of set-up your CB balked at when McStay was the front-runner last year. Where's all this financial lubrication coming from? For any other county the huge debt on McHale and the heavy spending of the last five years would be a millstone around their necks.
Interesting times west of Ballagh..
Quote from: Syferus on October 25, 2015, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 25, 2015, 12:23:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
"We was"....
Tut tut. :D
Tell you what Ross...
Suppose me and the rest of the Mayo heads club together and buy GPS systems for you and syf and shrewdness.
Then maybe you could find the way back to yeer own manager thread./
If ye don't pull out soon, ye will miss the action. McStay won't last pissing time because when he strts up with his "shot selection" and "carrying the ball oonto the tackle" and all the other crap tems he introduced to the world, your woolly sheep will turn into rams and chase him out of the county.
I mean ye did that to Maughan who outranked McStay.
If the whole effion' lot of ye don't move soon, he'll collide with you as you go one way and he'll be going the other with some of yer neanthardal fans in hot pursuit.
Where exactly are we chasing him to Lar? He's lived half of his life here and his daughters are die-hard Rossies.
If it's Rochford who gets your job it sounds like he's going to be looking for the same sort of set-up your CB balked at when McStay was the front-runner last year. Where's all this financial lubrication coming from? For any other county the huge debt on McHale and the heavy spending of the last five years would be a millstone around their necks.
Interesting times west of Ballagh..
And including...
Quote from: Syferus on October 25, 2015, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 25, 2015, 12:23:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
"We was"....
Tut tut. :D
Tell you what Ross...
Suppose me and the rest of the Mayo heads club together and buy GPS systems for you and syf and shrewdness.
Then maybe you could find the way back to yeer own manager thread./
If ye don't pull out soon, ye will miss the action. McStay won't last pissing time because when he strts up with his "shot selection" and "carrying the ball oonto the tackle" and all the other crap tems he introduced to the world, your woolly sheep will turn into rams and chase him out of the county.
I mean ye did that to Maughan who outranked McStay.
If the whole effion' lot of ye don't move soon, he'll collide with you as you go one way and he'll be going the other with some of yer neanthardal fans in hot pursuit.
Where exactly are we chasing him to Lar? He's lived half of his life here and his daughters are die-hard Rossies.
If it's Rochford who gets your job it sounds like he's going to be looking for the same sort of set-up your CB balked at when McStay was the front-runner last year. Where's all this financial lubrication coming from? For any other county the huge debt on McHale and the heavy spending of the last five years would be a millstone around their necks.
Interesting times west of Ballagh..
The CB weren't going to appoint him no matter what as they dad their own man/men earmarked. To say that the financials to bring in Rochford are the same is plain wrong though.
Quote from: Mac2 on October 25, 2015, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 25, 2015, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 25, 2015, 12:23:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
"We was"....
Tut tut. :D
Tell you what Ross...
Suppose me and the rest of the Mayo heads club together and buy GPS systems for you and syf and shrewdness.
Then maybe you could find the way back to yeer own manager thread./
If ye don't pull out soon, ye will miss the action. McStay won't last pissing time because when he strts up with his "shot selection" and "carrying the ball oonto the tackle" and all the other crap tems he introduced to the world, your woolly sheep will turn into rams and chase him out of the county.
I mean ye did that to Maughan who outranked McStay.
If the whole effion' lot of ye don't move soon, he'll collide with you as you go one way and he'll be going the other with some of yer neanthardal fans in hot pursuit.
Where exactly are we chasing him to Lar? He's lived half of his life here and his daughters are die-hard Rossies.
If it's Rochford who gets your job it sounds like he's going to be looking for the same sort of set-up your CB balked at when McStay was the front-runner last year. Where's all this financial lubrication coming from? For any other county the huge debt on McHale and the heavy spending of the last five years would be a millstone around their necks.
Interesting times west of Ballagh..
The CB weren't going to appoint him no matter what as they dad their own man/men earmarked. To say that the financials to bring in Rochford are the same is plain wrong though.
Partly because they were desperate for a man who would work within means, something Horan showed no real desire to do. Rightly given his aim was winning the AI too. But if getting costs down was an important factor last year I can't see how it's any less of a concern after another long-run season. Young Tony isn't going to be working for pocket money..
No nominations for Mayo job yet, according to Aidan Mc Loughlin.
No Horan return, so it's Rochford or Maughan III ;)
https://t.co/80bXWEiHTo (https://t.co/80bXWEiHTo)
Quote from: Tubberman on October 26, 2015, 08:34:53 AM
No Horan return, so it's Rochford or Maughan III ;)
https://t.co/80bXWEiHTo (https://t.co/80bXWEiHTo)
No surprise there. A young family. A demanding job. On the gravy trail with various media gigs. And unlike 5 years ago he known's the real work load involved with this gig. You can't go into this half hearted or else you'll end up losing to Sligo and Longford.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 25, 2015, 03:07:01 PM
No nominations for Mayo job yet, according to Aidan Mc Loughlin.
That's the thing. We can speculate all we like about McEntee/Rochford, but unless there's someone actually nominated that's all it will be. I'm sure that the CB will nominate Rochford, if he's willing to take it of course -if nobody else is nominated dor the job.
Could possibly prove to be the end of an era . I really believed Horan would take the reigns and to me that was the best option for this particular group at this time. If it is the end of the road so be it , in saying that taking into consideration we will have both Galway and the other crowd in castlebar in 16 , a Connacht title could be won without a manager imo but the quest fur Sam could well be over.
To the shameful journalist who subtlety claimed James Horan was an instigator in the heave , you're a proven liar now and should be sacked for your inane rants full of personal vendettas.
Disappointed by this myself. Horan is the only person who has the authority to quell the rebellion. Of course he has other commitments but, had I been in charge, I would have asked him to take over for just one year, so that this time the Board could handle the succession properly come the summer.
The new Mayo manager has two problems now, instead of the usual one. The first is the usual Sam-or-nothing conundrum, but the second now is restoring discipline. The new manager will be under even more pressure than Pat and Noel were because the players are now aware of their own power, and that's not how it can be.
There's a lot of talk in current sports science about the group and the power of the group and it's all very well but fundamentally teams aren't democracies. They're dictatorships, where the manager is sole authority. Tom starts, Jerry is on the bench, Mick is off the panel. The manager is the man with whom the buck must stop.
Maybe Rochford wants it and maybe he'll get it and maybe he'll do well. But that's more maybes than I find ideal for peace and contentment. Mayo could now be in the position of having to look outside for a manager, just as they did in 1993 after the last coup. And we all know how that finished up.
And before anyone starts, what I said about Rochford also applies to Kevin McStay of course. Mayo are in trouble. Again, and as usual.
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/mayomick/GAA/county%20board%20meeting%2019th%20Oct%202015_zpsadssgnmq.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/mayomick/media/GAA/county%20board%20meeting%2019th%20Oct%202015_zpsadssgnmq.jpg.html)
Larryin89, i wouldn't agree that it might be the end of era, because Horan isn't coming back.. Mayo still have one of the strongest panels in the country, and are probably one of only three teams with any realistic chance of winning Sam in 2016.. I'm surprised that Horan didn't come back. I thought 12 months out, would have recharged the batteries, and felt that he had unfinished business with Mayo...If Corofin keep going til March, it means that Mayo will have to accept a watered down management, until Rochford is free of his Corofin shackles.. That ,of course, will also affect Corofin.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/24/ef/77/24ef7729fd0bf56b0818161cec8dd3f9.jpg)
I don't believe for one second what happened last year has anything to do with the heave. Just mire deflecting problems from the CB on someone else. Always someone else's fault with the CB...
Rochford hasn't been approached by the CB yet, according to Midwest.
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 26, 2015, 02:44:34 PM
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/mayomick/GAA/county%20board%20meeting%2019th%20Oct%202015_zpsadssgnmq.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/mayomick/media/GAA/county%20board%20meeting%2019th%20Oct%202015_zpsadssgnmq.jpg.html)
Can't make head nor tail out of what Mac Éil has to say.
How could whatever happened in New York 18 months ago lead to Pat & Noel getting shafted?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 27, 2015, 01:04:37 PM
Rochford hasn't been approached by the CB yet, according to Midwest.
John Evans might be yer best bet lads. Sure to be motivated.
Farr, i'd be surprised if the CB contacted Rochford this week. They'd surely wait until after next Sunday when nominations close, in the hope that some club will have nominated him in the meantime.. Looking in from the outside, the entire process seems to be a mess.. Look at the facts. There is only one serious candidate left in the frame, and he already manages another team, and could still be for another 4 months plus. When the Mayo players revolted, this scenario is hardly what they envisaged.
If he is assembling a strong backroom team his commitment with Corofin for a few more months shouldn't be a big deal.
You're probably right Rodney, and anyway, who knows, Corofin mightn't even make it out of Connacht this year.
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2015, 02:03:02 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 27, 2015, 01:04:37 PM
Rochford hasn't been approached by the CB yet, according to Midwest.
John Evans might be yer best bet lads. Sure to be motivated.
He was motivated coming up to manage your herd alright, but ye knocked the enthusiasm out of him by the end.
No matter what he tried, ye reverted to type.
(http://www.dcrainmaker.com/images/2012/08/the-nuremberg-runaround-flock-of-sheep-edition.jpg)
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 27, 2015, 01:17:36 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 26, 2015, 02:44:34 PM
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/mayomick/GAA/county%20board%20meeting%2019th%20Oct%202015_zpsadssgnmq.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/mayomick/media/GAA/county%20board%20meeting%2019th%20Oct%202015_zpsadssgnmq.jpg.html)
Can't make head nor tail out of what Mac Éil has to say.
How could whatever happened in New York 18 months ago lead to Pat & Noel getting shafted?
18 months ago the county board organised a fundraiser for the diaspora in the US that the team didn t bother to attend. Then individual/individuals involved in the management team organised a fundraiser of their own and the county board does not know where those funds raised went.
That appears to be what McHale is saying and McHale is no spoofer.
He does not is no speculate where the unofficial funds went. We can speculate about that ourselves.
That appears to be what
If only the county board had adopted the strategic plan when they had the chance...
All fundraising processes etc. were covered there.
It's funny to see them circling the wagons and making accusations of outside influences in the wake of how they treated the people involved in that piece of work.
Quote from: moysider on October 27, 2015, 05:22:40 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 27, 2015, 01:17:36 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 26, 2015, 02:44:34 PM
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/mayomick/GAA/county%20board%20meeting%2019th%20Oct%202015_zpsadssgnmq.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/mayomick/media/GAA/county%20board%20meeting%2019th%20Oct%202015_zpsadssgnmq.jpg.html)
Can't make head nor tail out of what Mac Éil has to say.
How could whatever happened in New York 18 months ago lead to Pat & Noel getting shafted?
18 months ago the county board organised a fundraiser for the diaspora in the US that the team didn t bother to attend. Then individual/individuals involved in the management team organised a fundraiser of their own and the county board does not know where those funds raised went.
That appears to be what McHale is saying and McHale is no spoofer.
He does not is no speculate where the unofficial funds went. We can speculate about that ourselves.
That appears to be what
There are donors who would rather their money went towards the needs of the players, rather than on property deals. The CB publicly called them scams: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/mayo-gaa-supporters-warned-of-fundraising-scams-1.1507164 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/mayo-gaa-supporters-warned-of-fundraising-scams-1.1507164) The article doesn't mention how many of the expenses for various county teams weren't paid for by the CB. It is also very light on any evidence of them being 'scams', and when I say light on evidence, I mean they provided no evidence at all. Merely rhetoric and sensation.
The CB has long thrown nasty comments in that direction, including ordering groups to close down, and that all money must be directed to them and them only.
I suspect Horan was more interested in raising funds that directly helped his quest, rather than paid off loans. I have made donations over the years, but none to any CB fund.
Maybe there's a reason the CB didn't stump up all the funds, Muppet. From all accounts Horan was burning through money like a Wall Street banker. The CB is damned if they do and damned if they don't in that situation.
Surely the real solution was Horan not spending the money as excessively as he did, not organising top-ups on the side for himself with no accountability?
Quote from: Syferus on October 28, 2015, 03:59:46 PM
Maybe there's a reason the CB didn't stump up all the funds, Muppet. From all accounts Horan was burning through money like a Wall Street banker. The CB is damned if they do and damned if they don't in that situation.
Surely the real solution was Horan not spending the money as excessively as he did, not organising top-ups on the side for himself with no accountability?
This issue goes way, way back, probably way before Horan was even a player.
One thing appears to me to be absolutely certain, the CB will apportion lots of blame, but they will accept none of it.
Quote from: muppet on October 28, 2015, 04:03:58 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 28, 2015, 03:59:46 PM
Maybe there's a reason the CB didn't stump up all the funds, Muppet. From all accounts Horan was burning through money like a Wall Street banker. The CB is damned if they do and damned if they don't in that situation.
Surely the real solution was Horan not spending the money as excessively as he did, not organising top-ups on the side for himself with no accountability?
This issue goes way, way back, probably way before Horan was even a player.
One thing appears to me to be absolutely certain, the CB will apportion lots of blame, but they will accept none of it.
Seems what way but I don't know if opting out of the GAA's already paper-thin accountability structures is an appropriate response. It's never likely to end well. The best than can be done is trying to change opinions from the inside and gathering the support for a regime change.
Quote from: Syferus on October 28, 2015, 04:12:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 28, 2015, 04:03:58 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 28, 2015, 03:59:46 PM
Maybe there's a reason the CB didn't stump up all the funds, Muppet. From all accounts Horan was burning through money like a Wall Street banker. The CB is damned if they do and damned if they don't in that situation.
Surely the real solution was Horan not spending the money as excessively as he did, not organising top-ups on the side for himself with no accountability?
This issue goes way, way back, probably way before Horan was even a player.
One thing appears to me to be absolutely certain, the CB will apportion lots of blame, but they will accept none of it.
Seems what way but I don't know if opting out of the GAA's already paper-thin accountability structures is an appropriate response. It's never likely to end well. The best than can be done is trying to change opinions from the inside and gathering the support for a regime change.
I am not advocating anything.
However, to read CB officials shouting 'scams', without backing anything up with evidence, makes it less likely that I would even considering donating via their structures.
Now we have an official trying to link an issue with a fund raising event 18 months ago, under a previous management team, to the recent players' heave. It looks like a very convenient smokescreen to me, and it nicely smears the players' heave with 'fund raising issues'. Of course the true agenda seems to slip out when he says 'the County Board was undermined'. He also says 'It is a sheer power struggle somewhere'.
Remember two delegates resigned last year over the managerial appointment process. Officially there is very little connection being made between the shabby appointment process and the motion of no confidence in the successful candidates from that shabby process.
Of course, then, we had to move on, but now, no conspiracy stone will be left unturned. Now everything is an existential threat, oblivion looms for Mayo GAA, financial scams abound everywhere. But don't dare question the CBs role in anything, that of course would be treasonous.
Is the Corofin manager not from Mayo? would he be in with much of shout ?
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Is the Corofin manager not from Mayo? would he be in with much of shout ?
He is the favourite for the job seafoid
Will the appointment be made before this hits 100 pages! :)
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Is the Corofin manager not from Mayo? would he be in with much of shout ?
Yes a Mayo man. With Horan saying no to a return the appointment of Rochford seems a formality at this stage.
Quote from: Syferus on October 28, 2015, 03:59:46 PM
Maybe there's a reason the CB didn't stump up all the funds, Muppet. From all accounts Horan was burning through money like a Wall Street banker. The CB is damned if they do and damned if they don't in that situation.
Surely the real solution was Horan not spending the money as excessively as he did, not organising top-ups on the side for himself with no accountability?
Rochford wont be cheap. Heard he is getting €250 as session from Corofin.
Quote from: Gael85 on October 28, 2015, 07:29:31 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 28, 2015, 03:59:46 PM
Maybe there's a reason the CB didn't stump up all the funds, Muppet. From all accounts Horan was burning through money like a Wall Street banker. The CB is damned if they do and damned if they don't in that situation.
Surely the real solution was Horan not spending the money as excessively as he did, not organising top-ups on the side for himself with no accountability?
Rochford wont be cheap. Heard he is getting €250 as session from Corofin.
Having another AI club-winning manager as a sidekick (if we're to believe rumours of his ticket) isn't going to be cheap either. You can see a situation where the Mayo CB balks at the price-tag.
Depends a lot on if the CB wants to stick it to the Mayo panel and stay within budget or kick the finance can down the road by sating the players' demands and getting a big money set-up.
The Mayo horse has bolted or failed to bolt whichever way you want to look at it, the county board is not going to throw good money after bad trying to achieve the unachievable, so its back to mediocrity.
Might even be a third coming for Johno.
Anybody know if Rochford, or anyone else has been nominated?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 28, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Anybody know if Rochford, or anyone else has been nominated?
Haven't heard of any club meetings held yet for nominations
Any word on donie Buckley? Is he likely to be kept on? Is he expensive, money there to keep him on as well as whoever comes in?
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 28, 2015, 09:24:37 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 28, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Anybody know if Rochford, or anyone else has been nominated?
Haven't heard of any club meetings held yet for nominations
Does anybody here get the sense that Rochford making a statement that he has not had an approach from the Co Board is somewhat informative when the Board stated they are waiting until Nov 1 to receive nominations?
Quote from: Red on October 29, 2015, 06:35:45 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 28, 2015, 09:24:37 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 28, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Anybody know if Rochford, or anyone else has been nominated?
Haven't heard of any club meetings held yet for nominations
Does anybody here get the sense that Rochford making a statement that he has not had an approach from the Co Board is somewhat informative when the Board stated they are waiting until Nov 1 to receive nominations?
When did he say that?
Is there a link to it anywhere??
It was on Midwest one of the days. They reported it from the Independent.
I suppose he could be nominated by any club, especially his own club. But surely they should have processes to follow as well before nominating someone?
They could rush the meetings to get a decision, like the Cabinet did for the trivial matter of The Bank Guarantee.
Quote from: muppet on October 29, 2015, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: Red on October 29, 2015, 06:35:45 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 28, 2015, 09:24:37 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 28, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Anybody know if Rochford, or anyone else has been nominated?
Haven't heard of any club meetings held yet for nominations
Does anybody here get the sense that Rochford making a statement that he has not had an approach from the Co Board is somewhat informative when the Board stated they are waiting until Nov 1 to receive nominations?
When did he say that?
Is there a link to it anywhere??
Taken from Hogan Stand on Oct 27
Stephen Rochford says he has had "no contact" from Mayo County Board regarding the vacant Mayo senior football manager's job.
Rochford remains in charge of reigning All-Ireland club champions Corofin and he oversaw the Galway side's victory over Mohill of Leitrim on Sunday as they successfully opened the defence of their Connacht crown.
He has been strongly linked with the Mayo job but insists there's nothing happening on that front at present:
"No, there has been no contact. As everybody is aware, the nomination process opened last week. I know it sounds like a bit of a broken record but I was very much focused on the Corofin aspect," he told The Irish Independent.
"There are a couple of things happening in Mayo and as I indicated in the past it is something that would interest me but whether now is going to be the time or not is probably something we will know a lot in the next seven days.
"But the main interest for me at the moment is preparing Corofin for the Connacht semi-final away to St Mary's in Sligo on Sunday week. That's the priority at the minute."
He is aware of the process (nomination from club which I presume he would receive from Crossmolina) but he still notes he had no contact from Co Board. It was likely in response to the question if he had contact from the Board.
He goes on to say he is interested in the job. While he does point out he could wait he also seems to have given the Board a slightly stronger negotiating hand, particularly with John Maughan possibly waiting in the wings.
Surely appointing Maughan would result in a bloodbath. Ye could round to our thinking on Maighan if that happened..
Lookit Aidan McLoughlin clearly stated that the board were waiting for nominations until the deadline.
That's the way it should be imo. Why would clubs waste their time with nominations if the executive have another separate mechanism in place to get who they want.
If we end up with Maughan - I doubt it - well that is where we end up. The cupboard is a bit bare inside and outside the county for suitable canditates. Unfortunately recent appointments at minor and u21 were disappointing and maybe a bit ill-judged in the first place. You d be hoping to get coaches coming up through the ranks in the county but it is not happening for some reason.
Rochford has been nominated .
Mayo News - Sport @mayonewssport
Stephen Rochford has confirmed that he 'accepted a nomination' today to allow his name go forward for the Mayo manager post. #mayogaa #gaa
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 29, 2015, 09:57:02 PM
Mayo News - Sport @mayonewssport
Stephen Rochford has confirmed that he 'accepted a nomination' today to allow his name go forward for the Mayo manager post. #mayogaa #gaa
He has so far proven himself a good manager and coach and was always going to be nominated. The bigger issue now is if the Board want him and the set up he will want to put in place (or more to the point if the Board can afford it) and if they don't what alternatives they have on offer.
Quote from: Red on October 29, 2015, 10:14:58 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 29, 2015, 09:57:02 PM
Mayo News - Sport @mayonewssport
Stephen Rochford has confirmed that he 'accepted a nomination' today to allow his name go forward for the Mayo manager post. #mayogaa #gaa
He has so far proven himself a good manager and coach and was always going to be nominated. The bigger issue now is if the Board want him and the set up he will want to put in place (or more to the point if the Board can afford it) and if they don't what alternatives they have on offer.
I haven't a notion about how these things work but I would of thought all that would of been sounded out before a nomination like this is put forward . In others I'd be of the thought that it's a done deal already.
Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Lookit Aidan McLoughlin clearly stated that the board were waiting for nominations until the deadline.
That's the way it should be imo. Why would clubs waste their time with nominations if the executive have another separate mechanism in place to get who they want.
If we end up with Maughan - I doubt it - well that is where we end up. The cupboard is a bit bare inside and outside the county for suitable canditates. Unfortunately recent appointments at minor and u21 were disappointing and maybe a bit ill-judged in the first place. You d be hoping to get coaches coming up through the ranks in the county but it is not happening for some reason.
I think that's what happened last year if I remember correctly?
Quote from: Red on October 29, 2015, 10:14:58 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 29, 2015, 09:57:02 PM
Mayo News - Sport @mayonewssport
Stephen Rochford has confirmed that he 'accepted a nomination' today to allow his name go forward for the Mayo manager post. #mayogaa #gaa
He has so far proven himself a good manager and coach and was always going to be nominated. The bigger issue now is if the Board want him and the set up he will want to put in place (or more to the point if the Board can afford it) and if they don't what alternatives they have on offer.
Well that's good anyway. I expect that he has been nominated by a club?
I don t expect there will be many more nominations if any, and if not the executive should go ahead with the appointment with as little fuss as possible.
A lot of the mess we ended up in with the last management was because the outgoing chairman and others completely misread the situation a year ago. They obviously didn t want anything to do with McStay and cobbled together a management team that they believed that the players and football public would accept instead and be highly respected. While H&C had many admirers they were not as generally popular among the supporters as the Ex. seemed to believe. We knew early on that the players were less than enthusiastic with the arrangement as well.
So hopefully this time we will have a nice transparent process of appointment and no meddling. That way, players or anybody else can have no gripe. I don t think players or anybody else would regardless of how things go next year.
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 29, 2015, 10:50:51 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 29, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Lookit Aidan McLoughlin clearly stated that the board were waiting for nominations until the deadline.
That's the way it should be imo. Why would clubs waste their time with nominations if the executive have another separate mechanism in place to get who they want.
If we end up with Maughan - I doubt it - well that is where we end up. The cupboard is a bit bare inside and outside the county for suitable canditates. Unfortunately recent appointments at minor and u21 were disappointing and maybe a bit ill-judged in the first place. You d be hoping to get coaches coming up through the ranks in the county but it is not happening for some reason.
I think that's what happened last year if I remember correctly?
That's what happened this year at U21 as well. The Ex. pulled a stroke and nominated Maughan who withdrew after interview. One of the original nominees was appointed then instead. That was a strange turn of events and have no doubt that there was some stuff happening behind the scenes to cause a change of heart.
There is either a process in place or not.
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
What is the alternative dan? Who else is there?
There is no perfect manger out there waiting on a call and you cant design/create one. Every team is in the some boat when it comes to appointing a management.
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 12:15:14 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
What is the alternative dan? Who else is there?
There is no perfect manger out there waiting on a call and you cant design/create one. Every team is in the some boat when it comes to appointing a management.
IMO there is no alternative he is the only credible candidate.Maughan would send us back to the stone age and Horan had his chances and he blew them.I dont think Mc Guinness was ever an option. Im not having a go at him Moy i would like to know more about him.A fresh start is needed and he provides that. Would you be happy with him getting the job moy? We have problems that need sorting can he sort them?
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:23:26 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 12:15:14 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
What is the alternative dan? Who else is there?
There is no perfect manger out there waiting on a call and you cant design/create one. Every team is in the some boat when it comes to appointing a management.
IMO there is no alternative he is the only credible candidate.Maughan would send us back to the stone age and Horan had his chances and he blew them.I dont think Mc Guinness was ever an option. Im not having a go at him Moy i would like to know more about him.A fresh start is needed and he provides that. Would you be happy with him getting the job moy? We have problems that need sorting can he sort them?
I would be happy yeah. As regards the team I don t think we have much sorting to do.
Rochford went into the alpha club in Galway from a Mayo base (North Mayo at that) and delivered. That in itself is impressive. You d imagine that the club of the Silkes and the Galway cohort of 98- 01 in general would not tolerate a Mayo man about the place. Especially one without a decorated inter-county career.
He obviously knows his stuff.
There seems to be a bit of annoyance about egos in the Mayo panel being a problem. I don t believe that for a minute. There are always egos but it should never be a problem. It wont be a problem with Rochford. He will bring knowledge, assurance and authority to the role without making a song and dance about it.
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 30, 2015, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Sounds like McStay Lite.
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 30, 2015, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Sounds like McStay Lite.
Er.... no it doesn t. No point comparing the two. Huge regard for Kevin of course. Unlikely there will be any point in comparison down the road either. Rochford - if he gets the gig - will have a more fuller and colourful pallete to work off.
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 01:30:47 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 30, 2015, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Sounds like McStay Lite.
Er.... no it doesn t. No point comparing the two. Huge regard for Kevin of course. Unlikely there will be any point in comparison down the road either. Rochford - if he gets the gig - will have a more fuller and colourful pallete to work off.
Rochford will have a vivid and opinated palette to work of. Maybe a palette that doesn't realise the moment has passed them by. Kevin will have a panel that hangs on his every word. We might get three chances next year to see who is the better man.. if it's Kevin Lord help and save Rochford..
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:41:30 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 01:30:47 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 30, 2015, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Sounds like McStay Lite.
Er.... no it doesn t. No point comparing the two. Huge regard for Kevin of course. Unlikely there will be any point in comparison down the road either. Rochford - if he gets the gig - will have a more fuller and colourful pallete to work off.
Rochford will have a vivid and opinated ppalette to work of. Maybe a palate that doesn't realise the moment has passed them by. Kevin will have a panel that hangs on his every word. We might get three chances next year to see who is the better man.. if it's Kevin Lord help and save Rochford..
Relax. No need for the hyperbole. Ffs, what's that nonsense about who's the better man and moments passed by. Both are top football men.
It's been 35 years since ye had a moment that could compare with our recent several moments that passed us by. Catch a grip for God's sake. Wait until there's a stake through our heart before ruffling feathers. Same every year. Gloat when we lose to a Dublin or Kerry yet ye gat a face plant against likes of Fermanagh. An overweight pizza chomper shows up the best forward line in Connacht. Hegarty and Donie snr. start keeing on Shannonside radio and manager is history. Best of luck Kevin.
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:41:30 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 01:30:47 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 30, 2015, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Sounds like McStay Lite.
Er.... no it doesn t. No point comparing the two. Huge regard for Kevin of course. Unlikely there will be any point in comparison down the road either. Rochford - if he gets the gig - will have a more fuller and colourful pallete to work off.
Rochford will have a vivid and opinated ppalette to work of. Maybe a palate that doesn't realise the moment has passed them by. Kevin will have a panel that hangs on his every word. We might get three chances next year to see who is the better man.. if it's Kevin Lord help and save Rochford..
Relax. No need for the hyperbole. Ffs, what's that nonsense about who's the better man and moments passed by. Both are top football men.
It's been 35 years since ye had a moment that could compare with our recent several moments that passed us by. Catch a grip for God's sake. Wait until there's a stake through our heart before ruffling feathers. Same every year. Gloat when we lose to a Dublin or Kerry yet ye gat a face plant against likes of Fermanagh. An overweight pizza chomper shows up the best forward line in Connacht. Hegarty and Donie snr. start keeing on Shannonside radio and manager is history. Best of luck Kevin.
I'd settle for 2001 and 2010 if yer 'moments' are flipping over and letting the flavour of the year have their way with ye Moy.. at the end of the day you've three AIs to our two. Not much to lord over anyone.
Glad he's nominated. Hope they wrap up the process asap.
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:41:30 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 01:30:47 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 30, 2015, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Sounds like McStay Lite.
Er.... no it doesn t. No point comparing the two. Huge regard for Kevin of course. Unlikely there will be any point in comparison down the road either. Rochford - if he gets the gig - will have a more fuller and colourful pallete to work off.
Rochford will have a vivid and opinated palette to work of. Maybe a palette that doesn't realise the moment has passed them by. Kevin will have a panel that hangs on his every word. We might get three chances next year to see who is the better man.. if it's Kevin Lord help and save Rochford..
Jaysus, you got your knickers in a twist today!
You're letting your imagination run out of contrpol.
Who says Rochford will have "a vivid and opinated palette to work off."
There is no indication whatever that the panel will be any different to what it has been since Horan took over and that wasn't today nor yesterday. What makes you think that the moment or anything else has passed them by?
Bollocx to Kevin having a panel that will hang on to his every word. What about John Evans and Fergie? Two honest hard-working ng individuals and yet they couldn't turn jackasses into aracehorses and there is no reason to believe that McStay will get more out of what Evans left behind.
You can have as many chances as you like to prove whatever you like but I can't think of even one player or fan who'll lie awake at night worrying about what Kevin is going to do.
You spend far too much time worrying about what's happening in Mayo. You would be far better off if only you'd concern yourselves with Sligo. Threatening to take Mayo apart when you couldn't handle them is the height of wishful thinking.
From what I saw this year, I'd put my 50c on the Friesans if they met you again.
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 03:47:44 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:41:30 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 01:30:47 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 30, 2015, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Sounds like McStay Lite.
Er.... no it doesn t. No point comparing the two. Huge regard for Kevin of course. Unlikely there will be any point in comparison down the road either. Rochford - if he gets the gig - will have a more fuller and colourful pallete to work off.
Rochford will have a vivid and opinated ppalette to work of. Maybe a palate that doesn't realise the moment has passed them by. Kevin will have a panel that hangs on his every word. We might get three chances next year to see who is the better man.. if it's Kevin Lord help and save Rochford..
Relax. No need for the hyperbole. Ffs, what's that nonsense about who's the better man and moments passed by. Both are top football men.
It's been 35 years since ye had a moment that could compare with our recent several moments that passed us by. Catch a grip for God's sake. Wait until there's a stake through our heart before ruffling feathers. Same every year. Gloat when we lose to a Dublin or Kerry yet ye gat a face plant against likes of Fermanagh. An overweight pizza chomper shows up the best forward line in Connacht. Hegarty and Donie snr. start keeing on Shannonside radio and manager is history. Best of luck Kevin.
I'd settle for 2001 and 2010 if yer 'moments' are flipping over and letting the flavour of the year have their way with ye Moy.. at the end of the day you've three AIs to our two. Not much to lord over anyone.
Can t remember how 2010 ended for ye ( couldn t care less) but I remember 2001. Ye were humiliated in Ros v Galway 2. I never saw as dejected a county leaving McHale Park as ye that day. As one heron choker so eloquently put it yer jammy Connacht title wasn t 'worth a shite to ye now'. Y'know I don t think Roscommon football ever recovered from that day really.
2010 would never have happened for ye if your good friend Johnno hadn t decided to try and send us back to the 70s.
Quote from: Red on October 29, 2015, 07:54:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 29, 2015, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: Red on October 29, 2015, 06:35:45 PM
Quote from: mayo.mick on October 28, 2015, 09:24:37 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 28, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Anybody know if Rochford, or anyone else has been nominated?
Haven't heard of any club meetings held yet for nominations
Does anybody here get the sense that Rochford making a statement that he has not had an approach from the Co Board is somewhat informative when the Board stated they are waiting until Nov 1 to receive nominations?
When did he say that?
Is there a link to it anywhere??
Taken from Hogan Stand on Oct 27
Stephen Rochford says he has had "no contact" from Mayo County Board regarding the vacant Mayo senior football manager's job.
Rochford remains in charge of reigning All-Ireland club champions Corofin and he oversaw the Galway side's victory over Mohill of Leitrim on Sunday as they successfully opened the defence of their Connacht crown.
He has been strongly linked with the Mayo job but insists there's nothing happening on that front at present:
"No, there has been no contact. As everybody is aware, the nomination process opened last week. I know it sounds like a bit of a broken record but I was very much focused on the Corofin aspect," he told The Irish Independent.
"There are a couple of things happening in Mayo and as I indicated in the past it is something that would interest me but whether now is going to be the time or not is probably something we will know a lot in the next seven days.
"But the main interest for me at the moment is preparing Corofin for the Connacht semi-final away to St Mary's in Sligo on Sunday week. That's the priority at the minute."
He is aware of the process (nomination from club which I presume he would receive from Crossmolina) but he still notes he had no contact from Co Board. It was likely in response to the question if he had contact from the Board.
He goes on to say he is interested in the job. While he does point out he could wait he also seems to have given the Board a slightly stronger negotiating hand, particularly with John Maughan possibly waiting in the wings.
Thanks for that.
I see he is now nominated, but by whom?
Nominated by two clubs. Crossmolina and Ballinrobe.
Ballinrobe are M horan's club AFAIK, perhaps the rumour that he would be part of the setup had some truth in it
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 30, 2015, 01:18:11 PM
Ballinrobe are M horan's club AFAIK, perhaps the rumour that he would be part of the setup had some truth in it
It's also where Rochford lives these days, and he was managing one of their underage teams.
"I'd settle for 2001 and 2010 if yer 'moments' are flipping over and letting the flavour of the year have their way with ye Moy.. at the end of the day you've three AIs to our two. Not much to lord over anyone
Lol .
Quote from: Tubberman on October 30, 2015, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 30, 2015, 01:18:11 PM
Ballinrobe are M horan's club AFAIK, perhaps the rumour that he would be part of the setup had some truth in it
It's also where Rochford lives these days, and he was managing one of their underage teams.
played a bit of ruby with them as well. Wouldn t read too much into it being a Maurice Horan thing but ye never know.
Quote from: moysider on October 30, 2015, 02:19:23 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on October 30, 2015, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 30, 2015, 01:18:11 PM
Ballinrobe are M horan's club AFAIK, perhaps the rumour that he would be part of the setup had some truth in it
It's also where Rochford lives these days, and he was managing one of their underage teams.
played a bit of ruby with them as well. Wouldn t read too much into it being a Maurice Horan thing but ye never know.
Fair enough, didn't realise he had connections there
I see sky sports have their transfer deadline clock running 1day 5hrs and 31min to close of nominations for the rhubarb managers job
Quote from: giveballaghback on October 30, 2015, 06:29:25 PM
I see sky sports have their transfer deadline clock running 1day 5hrs and 31min to close of nominations for the rhubarb managers job
I hear Shannonside have a reporter live at McHale Park providing hourly updates to our eager neighbours ;D
Im glad to see shannonside up there with sky sports macdanger.
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 30, 2015, 06:43:14 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on October 30, 2015, 06:29:25 PM
I see sky sports have their transfer deadline clock running 1day 5hrs and 31min to close of nominations for the rhubarb managers job
I hear Shannonside have a reporter live at McHale Park providing hourly updates to our eager neighbours ;D
If it was Shannonside they'd cut live to some U12 soccer game in Drumshanbo every two minutes.
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 30, 2015, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Thanks for that Duine Eile it paints a good picture of him.Hope the appointment is done now without much fuss. On a seperate issue how does a thread about a new Mayo manager turn into a discussion about Rosscommon?
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 30, 2015, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on October 30, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
What do we know about Rochford as a manager.I know he won an all ireland with Corofin but what sort of manager is he? I strongly believe Mayo need a tactician to get us over the line.Is he tactically flexible or does he have a system a player must fit into? A lot of Mayo people are saying Rochford for the job but dont have a clue about him its like his name is the buzzword the last week or so.
From what I've seen and heard of Rochford he has a meticulous eye for detail, nothing is left to chance. Corofin play their own game but also adapt to suit who they are playing. He plays his players to their strengths, Ronan Steede for example, seems to have been given free reign to roam this year and he's had a great championship so far. Corofin are a seriously fit, well conditioned outfit also. He's not afraid to tackle indiscipline head on either from what I've heard, big name or not if you don't pull your weight/put in the effort/step out of line, you're on the bench and work your way back onto the first 15. Apparently if anyone was as much as a minute late for training last year they were told to go home and come back the next evening, no big issue made out of it by anyone but the message was still put out if you can't be on time there's 2 or 3 lads here looking for your place, everyone that starts on Rochford's first 15 has put in serious effort in training, there's no getting your place on name or reputation only. He strikes me as someone who has the potential to do very well at inter county.
Thanks for that Duine Eile it paints a good picture of him.Hope the appointment is done now without much fuss. On a seperate issue how does a thread about a new Mayo manager turn into a discussion about Rosscommon?
It didn't. Your mess overshadows everything else, Dan.
Quote from: Syferus on October 30, 2015, 07:35:32 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 30, 2015, 06:43:14 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on October 30, 2015, 06:29:25 PM
I see sky sports have their transfer deadline clock running 1day 5hrs and 31min to close of nominations for the rhubarb managers job
I hear Shannonside have a reporter live at McHale Park providing hourly updates to our eager neighbours ;D
If it was Shannonside they'd cut live to some U12 soccer game in Drumshanbo every two minutes.
;D
Mayoman dan, you'll have to ask your fellow Mayo posters, why they can never see past their Roscommon obsession. Some of it is downright vicious.
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 30, 2015, 08:11:18 PM
Mayoman dan, you'll have to ask your fellow Mayo posters, why they can never see past their Roscommon obsession. Some of it is downright vicious.
Larnaparka is hardly vicious and he's the worst of us ;D
We are very close to 55 pages on something that has yet to happen.
Jaysus I don't know anymore. Wake me up when Rochford gets the job.
;) ;)
Quote from: Shrewdness on October 30, 2015, 08:11:18 PM
Mayoman dan, you'll have to ask your fellow Mayo posters, why they can never see past their Roscommon obsession. Some of it is downright vicious.
Fair play, syf; this is your best alias yet! ;D
You had me fooled for a while, I have to admit but nobody on four legs never mind two, could put up such shite day after day and I guess you are the only one who would be bothered to park yourself here and act the
leibide all day long.
keep it open for a few more days lads Jose will be available.
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 01, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
keep it open for a few more days lads Jose will be available.
FFS pipe down! Just when things had gone nice and quiet a Rossie gets bored and starts poking around again. Is there nothing on the telly?
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 01, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
keep it open for a few more days lads Jose will be available.
FFS pipe down! Just when things had gone nice and quiet a Rossie gets bored and starts poking around again. Is there nothing on the telly?
Strictly Come Dancing had just finished, hence the boredom...
Quote from: bucko on November 01, 2015, 11:49:08 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 01, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
keep it open for a few more days lads Jose will be available.
FFS pipe down! Just when things had gone nice and quiet a Rossie gets bored and starts poking around again. Is there nothing on the telly?
Strictly Come Dancing had just finished, hence the boredom...
Surely they have a few scabs to pick at to occupy them? The old wounds from Sligo and Fermanagh hardly fully healed yet ;D ;D
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: bucko on November 01, 2015, 11:49:08 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 01, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
keep it open for a few more days lads Jose will be available.
FFS pipe down! Just when things had gone nice and quiet a Rossie gets bored and starts poking around again. Is there nothing on the telly?
Strictly Come Dancing had just finished, hence the boredom...
Surely they have a few scabs to pick at to occupy them? The old wounds from Sligo and Fermanagh hardly fully healed yet ;D ;D
Your ex-clubmen did a great job getting us over that hump Moy.
Quote from: Syferus on November 02, 2015, 12:06:11 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: bucko on November 01, 2015, 11:49:08 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 01, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
keep it open for a few more days lads Jose will be available.
FFS pipe down! Just when things had gone nice and quiet a Rossie gets bored and starts poking around again. Is there nothing on the telly?
Strictly Come Dancing had just finished, hence the boredom...
Surely they have a few scabs to pick at to occupy them? The old wounds from Sligo and Fermanagh hardly fully healed yet ;D ;D
Your ex-clubmen did a great job getting us over that hump Moy.
A ball hasn't been kicked yet Sy ;)
Quote from: moysider on November 02, 2015, 12:37:10 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 02, 2015, 12:06:11 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: bucko on November 01, 2015, 11:49:08 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 01, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
keep it open for a few more days lads Jose will be available.
FFS pipe down! Just when things had gone nice and quiet a Rossie gets bored and starts poking around again. Is there nothing on the telly?
Strictly Come Dancing had just finished, hence the boredom...
Surely they have a few scabs to pick at to occupy them? The old wounds from Sligo and Fermanagh hardly fully healed yet ;D ;D
Your ex-clubmen did a great job getting us over that hump Moy.
A ball hasn't been kicked yet Sy ;)
Been plenty of balls kicked in trials Moy. That's the sort of thing you can do when you have a manager.
November. Tick tock.
Quote from: Syferus on November 02, 2015, 12:51:57 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 02, 2015, 12:37:10 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 02, 2015, 12:06:11 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: bucko on November 01, 2015, 11:49:08 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 01, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
keep it open for a few more days lads Jose will be available.
FFS pipe down! Just when things had gone nice and quiet a Rossie gets bored and starts poking around again. Is there nothing on the telly?
Strictly Come Dancing had just finished, hence the boredom...
Surely they have a few scabs to pick at to occupy them? The old wounds from Sligo and Fermanagh hardly fully healed yet ;D ;D
Your ex-clubmen did a great job getting us over that hump Moy.
A ball hasn't been kicked yet Sy ;)
Been plenty of balls kicked in trials Moy. That's the sort of thing you can do when you have a manager.
November. Tick tock.
Trials? Any verdict yet ? ;D I'm sure Johneen hadn't missed out on half a team ;)
Quote from: moysider on November 02, 2015, 01:02:10 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 02, 2015, 12:51:57 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 02, 2015, 12:37:10 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 02, 2015, 12:06:11 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: bucko on November 01, 2015, 11:49:08 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 01, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 01, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
keep it open for a few more days lads Jose will be available.
FFS pipe down! Just when things had gone nice and quiet a Rossie gets bored and starts poking around again. Is there nothing on the telly?
Strictly Come Dancing had just finished, hence the boredom...
Surely they have a few scabs to pick at to occupy them? The old wounds from Sligo and Fermanagh hardly fully healed yet ;D ;D
Your ex-clubmen did a great job getting us over that hump Moy.
A ball hasn't been kicked yet Sy ;)
Been plenty of balls kicked in trials Moy. That's the sort of thing you can do when you have a manager.
November. Tick tock.
Trials? Any verdict yet ? ;D I'm sure Johneen hadn't missed out on half a team ;)
You'd be surprised Moy.
Only the 1 nomination?
He probably has a 50/50 chance so :D
Those trials have seen the involvment of some players who, for one reason or another, left the panel in the last couple of years. Heard that the entire back room team has been changed.
One thing is for certain, next year's Connacht championship will be interesting.
What's even more interesting is the bit I've put in bold!
QuoteMayo officials won't expect Stephen Rochford to quit Corofin until their interest in the All-Ireland club series comes to an end.
It was announced last night that Rochford is the only nomination for the Mayo senior football manager vacancy and secretary Vincent Neary informed the Western People: "Just because he's the only nomination doesn't mean we don't follow the correct process.
"An interview committee will be put together [this week] and the candidate will have to be interviewed and his full team put in front of us."
Neary accepts that Mayo will have no option but to accept the Crossmolina native's current commitments to the All-Ireland club champions should they ratify his appointment.
"Looking from a distance, to be fair to Stephen and Corofin he can't walk away midstream.
"They're current All-Ireland Club champions and they won't have been expecting to be losing their manager while still in the Connacht campaign. That will all have to be thrashed out.
"But to be fair to everyone you couldn't expect him to walk out on them midstream."
Taken from Hoganstand.
Would agree with that Farr. Galway might ask some serious questions of Mayo in Castlebar. Roscommon will have to tread warily on our side of the draw, as it's littered with landmines, banana skins.. Having said all that, i'd love to see a motivated, well prepared Roscommon have a serious crack at Mayo in Castlebar. Thought it would happen in the summer just gone, but we might be better prepared for it next Summer, if we overcome Leitrim and Sligo first of all.
I presume the Connacht Council will get Corofin out ASAP ::)
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 02, 2015, 09:16:19 PM
Would agree with that Farr. Galway might ask some serious questions of Mayo in Castlebar. Roscommon will have to tread warily on our side of the draw, as it's littered with landmines, banana skins.. Having said all that, i'd love to see a motivated, well prepared Roscommon have a serious crack at Mayo in Castlebar. Thought it would happen in the summer just gone, but we might be better prepared for it next Summer, if we overcome Leitrim and Sligo first of all.
Nope ,six in a row will be achieved with relative ease. Dreams of Sam maguire are over but.
Why are they over larry?
Jaysus lads there is only one candidate, the count is taking longer than that election over in Burma.
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 09, 2015, 11:38:35 PM
Jaysus lads there is only one candidate, the count is taking longer than that election over in Burma.
isn't it great that we have the Rossies to worry for us.I know all yeer football is played in January while we're only gettin warmed up in August,so relax th'owl britches for another while there maìth a'fear
I expect the Rhu Co Board Executive are trying to convince some of their favourites to take on the role so they can avoid giving it to Rochford.
Heard that Cillian O'Connor has had knee surgery, and could be out of action for anything up to 5 months. Likely to miss most of the NFL.
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 10, 2015, 03:48:27 PM
Heard that Cillian O'Connor has had knee surgery, and could be out of action for anything up to 5 months. Likely to miss most of the NFL.
Looking bleak for the neighbours.
and if Castlebar have a prolonged run, Mayo will be without Cunniffe, Moran and Durkan for a prolonged period. You'd nearly feel sorry for them!!
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 10, 2015, 07:41:06 PM
and if Castlebar have a prolonged run, Mayo will be without Cunniffe, Moran and Durkan for a prolonged period. You'd nearly feel sorry for them!!
And if they don't they have no full-time manager until March..
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2015, 07:54:22 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 10, 2015, 07:41:06 PM
and if Castlebar have a prolonged run, Mayo will be without Cunniffe, Moran and Durkan for a prolonged period. You'd nearly feel sorry for them!!
And if they don't they have no full-time manager until March..
Good God we'll be fecked for the FBD! Players won't be fit in time for it and focus will be lost. What will we do? I know the first thoughts after the final whistle against Dublin last September were
How are we going to dethrone the FBD Champions?
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 10, 2015, 08:24:19 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2015, 07:54:22 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 10, 2015, 07:41:06 PM
and if Castlebar have a prolonged run, Mayo will be without Cunniffe, Moran and Durkan for a prolonged period. You'd nearly feel sorry for them!!
And if they don't they have no full-time manager until March..
Good God we'll be fecked for the FBD! Players won't be fit in time for it and focus will be lost. What will we do? I know the first thoughts after the final whistle against Dublin last September were How are we going to dethrone the FBD Champions?
Pretty sure it was
How are we going to dethrone our managers?
Quote from: Syferus on November 11, 2015, 08:35:43 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 10, 2015, 08:24:19 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 10, 2015, 07:54:22 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 10, 2015, 07:41:06 PM
and if Castlebar have a prolonged run, Mayo will be without Cunniffe, Moran and Durkan for a prolonged period. You'd nearly feel sorry for them!!
And if they don't they have no full-time manager until March..
Good God we'll be fecked for the FBD! Players won't be fit in time for it and focus will be lost. What will we do? I know the first thoughts after the final whistle against Dublin last September were How are we going to dethrone the FBD Champions?
Pretty sure it was How are we going to dethrone our managers?
Pretty sure Rossies though at that point we have to get a Mayo manager in!
Fair play to you shrewdness you're keeping tabs on all things Mayo .
Well, Cillian is out, and the Castlebar contingent may miss a bit of the league, (though I don't think they will). If that happens, the onus is on the rest of the fringe players to shape up or ship out.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 09:05:10 PM
Well, Cillian is out, and the Castlebar contingent may miss a bit of the league, (though I don't think they will). If that happens, the onus is on the rest of the fringe players to shape up or ship out.
You'd have to think it the best time for Cillian to get it sorted . As you rightly say massive opportunity for a couple of bucks to step up , have a strong feeling Rochford will prove a few of us very right or very wrong when he gives the ballina buckeen a right good run in 16 .(as in I have a feeling he'll get his chance under SR ,barring injury )
Quote from: larryin89 on November 11, 2015, 09:11:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 09:05:10 PM
Well, Cillian is out, and the Castlebar contingent may miss a bit of the league, (though I don't think they will). If that happens, the onus is on the rest of the fringe players to shape up or ship out.
You'd have to think it the best time for Cillian to get it sorted . As you rightly say massive opportunity for a couple of bucks to step up , have a strong feeling Rochford will prove a few of us very right or very wrong when he gives the ballina buckeen a right good run in 16 .(as in I have a feeling he'll get his chance under SR ,barring injury )
Me too, I hope he has a stormer of a year next year.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on November 11, 2015, 09:11:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 09:05:10 PM
Well, Cillian is out, and the Castlebar contingent may miss a bit of the league, (though I don't think they will). If that happens, the onus is on the rest of the fringe players to shape up or ship out.
You'd have to think it the best time for Cillian to get it sorted . As you rightly say massive opportunity for a couple of bucks to step up , have a strong feeling Rochford will prove a few of us very right or very wrong when he gives the ballina buckeen a right good run in 16 .(as in I have a feeling he'll get his chance under SR ,barring injury )
Me too, I hope he has a stormer of a year next year.
Evan Regan must be the most hyped GAA player in Mayo GAA history.
Quote from: Syferus on November 11, 2015, 09:54:19 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on November 11, 2015, 09:11:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 09:05:10 PM
Well, Cillian is out, and the Castlebar contingent may miss a bit of the league, (though I don't think they will). If that happens, the onus is on the rest of the fringe players to shape up or ship out.
You'd have to think it the best time for Cillian to get it sorted . As you rightly say massive opportunity for a couple of bucks to step up , have a strong feeling Rochford will prove a few of us very right or very wrong when he gives the ballina buckeen a right good run in 16 .(as in I have a feeling he'll get his chance under SR ,barring injury )
Me too, I hope he has a stormer of a year next year.
Evan Regan must be the most hyped GAA player in Mayo GAA history.
Are you too young to remember Austin O'Malley, or were you concentrating on your own county back in those days?
Quote from: Tubberman on November 11, 2015, 10:35:24 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 11, 2015, 09:54:19 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on November 11, 2015, 09:11:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 09:05:10 PM
Well, Cillian is out, and the Castlebar contingent may miss a bit of the league, (though I don't think they will). If that happens, the onus is on the rest of the fringe players to shape up or ship out.
You'd have to think it the best time for Cillian to get it sorted . As you rightly say massive opportunity for a couple of bucks to step up , have a strong feeling Rochford will prove a few of us very right or very wrong when he gives the ballina buckeen a right good run in 16 .(as in I have a feeling he'll get his chance under SR ,barring injury )
Me too, I hope he has a stormer of a year next year.
Evan Regan must be the most hyped GAA player in Mayo GAA history.
Are you too young to remember Austin O'Malley, or were you concentrating on your own county back in those days?
Ah now. It's not hard to keep up with Mayo. I doubt you'll be avoiding Kevin McStay interviews in the coming year yourself Tubber..
Jeez Syferus but you are a fool.The only one that has hyped up Regan is your good self
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2015, 09:05:10 PM
Well, Cillian is out, and the Castlebar contingent may miss a bit of the league, (though I don't think they will). If that happens, the onus is on the rest of the fringe players to shape up or ship out.
Exactly. O Connor was held back all year with a knee injury and now is the time to get it fixed. If he gets back for the summer it will be soon enough.
I wouldn t rule out Castlebar beating Corofin. So we ll see if they are available. Kirby looks a more driven man this year and maybe he has something to offer. Douglas, to me, looks like he is becoming a really serious player though and would like to see him get plenty county time in spring. I confess I had my doubts but I ve been really impressed with him when I ve seen them this year.
Anyway, without Cillian and Mitchels we have plenty to go with to stay in Div.1 which is the only thing that matters in Spring.
Quote from: maigheo on November 11, 2015, 11:04:41 PM
Jeez Syferus but you are a fool.The only one that has hyped up Regan is your good self
...and the Mayo posters up above.
Quote from: Syferus on November 12, 2015, 03:47:32 AM
Quote from: maigheo on November 11, 2015, 11:04:41 PM
Jeez Syferus but you are a fool.The only one that has hyped up Regan is your good self
...and the Mayo posters up above.
Incorrect. Larryin89 said he will probably get a good run of games under Rochford, and he will prove to be a success or failure. I then agree with him, hoping he has a great year.
in fairness tohe sheep stealing crowd would never have heard about regan but for the amount of Promotion he got on here from the ballina Crew,
I hope he get a run in the league to justify it but we aint really seen nothing yet apart from a very bright opening to the league and that horrible injury .
he deserves one years good luck at least
I've only seen him play a few times , I just think he's a bit of style to him and worth a run albeit I believe it should of been a couple of years ago by right but no sense in looking back . If I'm honest my obsession with the whole regan should be given a run thing stems from a player that said to a friend of mine " wait till you see Evan regan from Ballina, he is the business and will be a star " about four years ago . I watched him closely after that as much as I could and I just believe he has the ability to do forward thinking stuff a bit different to what we have and might work will with five of the present lot up front .
It's not a case of " we have a gooch in Mayo that's not been given a fair crack " . Like some of Ye are trying to make out.Just a case of imo he's worth a shot .
Quote from: larryin89 on November 12, 2015, 06:35:17 PM
I've only seen him play a few times , I just think he's a bit of style to him and worth a run albeit I believe it should of been a couple of years ago by right but no sense in looking back . If I'm honest my obsession with the whole regan should be given a run thing stems from a player that said to a friend of mine " wait till you see Evan regan from Ballina, he is the business and will be a star " about four years ago . I watched him closely after that as much as I could and I just believe he has the ability to do forward thinking stuff a bit different to what we have and might work will with five of the present lot up front .
It's not a case of " we have a gooch in Mayo that's not been given a fair crack " . Like some of Ye are trying to make out.Just a case of imo he's worth a shot .
we dont know if we have a player yet let alone a Gooch.
Neil douglas and danny Kirby have done far more to be worth a proper look before him
Quote from: rosnarun on November 13, 2015, 11:25:54 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on November 12, 2015, 06:35:17 PM
I've only seen him play a few times , I just think he's a bit of style to him and worth a run albeit I believe it should of been a couple of years ago by right but no sense in looking back . If I'm honest my obsession with the whole regan should be given a run thing stems from a player that said to a friend of mine " wait till you see Evan regan from Ballina, he is the business and will be a star " about four years ago . I watched him closely after that as much as I could and I just believe he has the ability to do forward thinking stuff a bit different to what we have and might work will with five of the present lot up front .
It's not a case of " we have a gooch in Mayo that's not been given a fair crack " . Like some of Ye are trying to make out.Just a case of imo he's worth a shot .
we dont know if we have a player yet let alone a Gooch.
Neil douglas and danny Kirby have done far more to be worth a proper look before him
Hasn't Kirby been given at least two chances at senior IC and not made it already? What's changed?
Did Danny Kirby score four goals in a senior match for Mayo one year? Might have been an FBD or NFL game....Or was it Jason Doherty?
not made it is a managers choice not a universal condemnation esp when the manger get the boot shortly after. he scored 4 goals and didnt get picked for about two years . in that awful League game against dublin for the short time he was on looked about the only competitive player mayo had.
My biggerst doubts about him strangely for a such a big man is his lack of physicality and such being constanly picked at corner forward as a club player you wonder what do they know we don't
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 13, 2015, 04:12:27 PM
Did Danny Kirby score four goals in a senior match for Mayo one year? Might have been an FBD or NFL game....Or was it Jason Doherty?
and did it between the 23rd and 27th minutes of the first half . mind you, can you really judge a player for 5 minutes action. would it be hard to drop a player for 5 minutes shit football
Thanks Rosnarun. Thought it was Kirby alright. After his heroics against Breaffy, i didn't think Neil Douglas played all that well against Clann.
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 13, 2015, 04:39:03 PM
Thanks Rosnarun. Thought it was Kirby alright. After his heroics against Breaffy, i didn't think Neil Douglas played all that well against Clann.
Was a non-factor. Only score was a free. Durcan was the best Castlebar had and Feeney for the first 15 or so minutes but his time is probably gone when he didn't even feature under his own club manager from a couple years ago. I assume Durcan will be a pretty consistent starter for Mayo in 2016 if his foot trouble doesn't limit him. Beyond him it's actually hard to see other Castlebar players being starters and most would be bit players. Even 'Turbo' Tom would have a fight on his hands to start.
Syferus, does Durcan have a foot problem?
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 13, 2015, 06:40:09 PM
Syferus, does Durcan have a foot problem?
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23054:durcan-playing-through-the-pain&catid=14&Itemid=100008
Tough on a young lad with his career ahead of him. Good young player.
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 13, 2015, 04:12:27 PM
Did Danny Kirby score four goals in a senior match for Mayo one year? Might have been an FBD or NFL game....Or was it Jason Doherty?
Correct, 4 goals in an FBD game iirc. Horan never played him for the rest of the year.
Quote from: rosnarun on November 13, 2015, 04:14:21 PM
not made it is a managers choice not a universal condemnation esp when the manger get the boot shortly after. he scored 4 goals and didnt get picked for about two years . in that awful League game against dublin for the short time he was on looked about the only competitive player mayo had.
My biggerst doubts about him strangely for a such a big man is his lack of physicality and such being constanly picked at corner forward as a club player you wonder what do they know we don't
a) Barry Moran;
b) Kirby scores a lot of goals;
I don't see many club games but every time I have watched him he seems to get a goal. I think he got 2 against Aughamore and 1 against Breaffy. He got one the last day as well.
Under Holmes Kirby and Moran switched quite a bit. When Moran was sent-off in the Connacht Final against Bridget's 2 years ago, Kirby went to midfield and had a stormer, and got his obligatory goal.
Quote from: rosnarun on November 13, 2015, 04:14:21 PM
not made it is a managers choice not a universal condemnation esp when the manger get the boot shortly after. he scored 4 goals and didnt get picked for about two years . in that awful League game against dublin for the short time he was on looked about the only competitive player mayo had.
My biggerst doubts about him strangely for a such a big man is his lack of physicality and such being constanly picked at corner forward as a club player you wonder what do they know we don't
If you are talking about Kirby then his physicality is still developing. He is still only 23 (I think) a young man for to have developed manly strength yet. He'll get there.
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 14, 2015, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 13, 2015, 04:14:21 PM
not made it is a managers choice not a universal condemnation esp when the manger get the boot shortly after. he scored 4 goals and didnt get picked for about two years . in that awful League game against dublin for the short time he was on looked about the only competitive player mayo had.
My biggerst doubts about him strangely for a such a big man is his lack of physicality and such being constanly picked at corner forward as a club player you wonder what do they know we don't
If you are talking about Kirby then his physicality is still developing. He is still only 23 (I think) a young man for to have developed manly strength yet. He'll get there.
I agree. Big lads seem to take longer to mature. There seems to be a bit more about him this year. Himself and Douglas will get a good look-in next spring I reckon.
Quote from: moysider on November 14, 2015, 03:48:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 14, 2015, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 13, 2015, 04:14:21 PM
not made it is a managers choice not a universal condemnation esp when the manger get the boot shortly after. he scored 4 goals and didnt get picked for about two years . in that awful League game against dublin for the short time he was on looked about the only competitive player mayo had.
My biggerst doubts about him strangely for a such a big man is his lack of physicality and such being constanly picked at corner forward as a club player you wonder what do they know we don't
If you are talking about Kirby then his physicality is still developing. He is still only 23 (I think) a young man for to have developed manly strength yet. He'll get there.
I agree. Big lads seem to take longer to mature. There seems to be a bit more about him this year. Himself and Douglas will get a good look-in next spring I reckon.
Ah come on lads. 23-27 is the peak of most IC footballers' careers. I can think of reams of younger lads than Kirby that are more than physical enough for senior. Take a look at Cathal Shine for us (about the same age as Kirby) or Harney who's not even 20 yet. Sure AOS was bursting through defenders when he was barely out of nappies. Sounds a bit like you're making excuses for the lad.
Quote from: Syferus on November 14, 2015, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 14, 2015, 03:48:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 14, 2015, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 13, 2015, 04:14:21 PM
not made it is a managers choice not a universal condemnation esp when the manger get the boot shortly after. he scored 4 goals and didnt get picked for about two years . in that awful League game against dublin for the short time he was on looked about the only competitive player mayo had.
My biggerst doubts about him strangely for a such a big man is his lack of physicality and such being constanly picked at corner forward as a club player you wonder what do they know we don't
If you are talking about Kirby then his physicality is still developing. He is still only 23 (I think) a young man for to have developed manly strength yet. He'll get there.
I agree. Big lads seem to take longer to mature. There seems to be a bit more about him this year. Himself and Douglas will get a good look-in next spring I reckon.
Ah come on lads. 23-27 is the peak of most IC footballers' careers. I can think of reams of younger lads than Kirby that are more than physical enough for senior. Take a look at Cathal Shine for us (about the same age as Kirby) or Harney who's not even 20 yet. Sure AOS was bursting through defenders when he was barely out of nappies. Sounds a bit like you're making excuses for the lad.
How long were both these players exposed to Senior IC football and the Strength & Conditioning that goes with it before they were 23? It's different for different players. You can be a big lad but it can take time for to get up to speed to the physicality and hits of the modern game.
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 14, 2015, 06:26:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 14, 2015, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 14, 2015, 03:48:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 14, 2015, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 13, 2015, 04:14:21 PM
not made it is a managers choice not a universal condemnation esp when the manger get the boot shortly after. he scored 4 goals and didnt get picked for about two years . in that awful League game against dublin for the short time he was on looked about the only competitive player mayo had.
My biggerst doubts about him strangely for a such a big man is his lack of physicality and such being constanly picked at corner forward as a club player you wonder what do they know we don't
If you are talking about Kirby then his physicality is still developing. He is still only 23 (I think) a young man for to have developed manly strength yet. He'll get there.
I agree. Big lads seem to take longer to mature. There seems to be a bit more about him this year. Himself and Douglas will get a good look-in next spring I reckon.
Ah come on lads. 23-27 is the peak of most IC footballers' careers. I can think of reams of younger lads than Kirby that are more than physical enough for senior. Take a look at Cathal Shine for us (about the same age as Kirby) or Harney who's not even 20 yet. Sure AOS was bursting through defenders when he was barely out of nappies. Sounds a bit like you're making excuses for the lad.
How long were both these players exposed to Senior IC football and the Strength & Conditioning that goes with it before they were 23? It's different for different players. You can be a big lad but it can take time for to get up to speed to the physicality and hits of the modern game.
Cathal had been out for over a year with a serious back injury, only returning for his final U21 season at the AISF stage in April of 2012. He was starting for the seniors by 2013. So very little conditioning and a whole heap of rehab.
I just don't see this thing of it being particularly difficult to make it at senior being a big man over any other size of player. Like Enda Smith is a big tall lad but he's hardly built like a tank and yet he's been great for us the last few years. FOC and Tom Flynn in Galway are similar. Kirby never struck me as a physically weak player either. If anything it's much harder if you're a small nippy lad.
There's been a bit of a difference in recent years between getting into Roscommon and Galway midfields and trying to compete for a place with the O Sés, Moran, Parsons and Gibbons. Gibbons took a few years to get there, had some fine games and got injured and hasn t got back up to speed since. Hopefully he ll be back to his best for 2016. that would give us a boost.
Quote from: moysider on November 14, 2015, 08:02:03 PM
There's been a bit of a difference in recent years between getting into Roscommon and Galway midfields and trying to compete for a place with the O Sés, Moran, Parsons and Gibbons. Gibbons took a few years to get there, had some fine games and got injured and hasn t got back up to speed since. Hopefully he ll be back to his best for 2016. that would give us a boost.
Kirby would be unlikely to play at midfield for Mayo though. Ye've been crying out for a FF for years - if he wasn't the answer then why would he be now?
Syfín, would you ever go to Syria and sort out the Middle East and lave the Rhus to their own devices >:(
Quote from: Syferus on November 14, 2015, 08:44:31 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 14, 2015, 08:02:03 PM
There's been a bit of a difference in recent years between getting into Roscommon and Galway midfields and trying to compete for a place with the O Sés, Moran, Parsons and Gibbons. Gibbons took a few years to get there, had some fine games and got injured and hasn t got back up to speed since. Hopefully he ll be back to his best for 2016. that would give us a boost.
Kirby would be unlikely to play at midfield for Mayo though. Ye've been crying out for a FF for years - if he wasn't the answer then why would he be now?
I've never seen a Roscommon man so secretly in love with Mayo. I've seen and experienced unrequited love before but this is taking the piss
Quote from: Rossfan on November 14, 2015, 09:44:46 PM
Syfín, would you ever go to Syria and sort out the Middle East and lave the Rhus to their own devices >:(
+101 ;D
Good man Ross, you have a way with words!
Quote from: INDIANA on November 14, 2015, 09:54:45 PM
I've never seen a Roscommon man so secretly in love with Mayo. I've seen and experienced unrequited love before but this is taking the piss
It's got seriously embarrassing at this stage :-[ :-[ :-[
Quote from: INDIANA on November 14, 2015, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 14, 2015, 08:44:31 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 14, 2015, 08:02:03 PM
There's been a bit of a difference in recent years between getting into Roscommon and Galway midfields and trying to compete for a place with the O Sés, Moran, Parsons and Gibbons. Gibbons took a few years to get there, had some fine games and got injured and hasn t got back up to speed since. Hopefully he ll be back to his best for 2016. that would give us a boost.
Kirby would be unlikely to play at midfield for Mayo though. Ye've been crying out for a FF for years - if he wasn't the answer then why would he be now?
I've never seen a Roscommon man so secretly in love with Mayo. I've seen and experienced unrequited love before but this is taking the piss
And I've never seen a man so obviously in love with himself.
It's obvious he has a gra for all things mayo and sure he's not the first man from outside Mayo to do so. The only difference is he attempts to be all closet about it. I don't agree with all the stick he gets though , he's actually fairly well tuned into Gaelic football matters
Arra, I'd miss him if he ever took the hint and fracked off! ;D
Seriously though, I don't mind any of the Rossies who seem to spend most of their waking time parked on our doorstep.
Maybe they should start up their bus and get to hell out of it as the neighbours are beginning to pass rude comments about their obsession with all things Mayo.
I thought the least they should have done would be to keep their own manager thread open. Doesn't say much about their coincidence in Kevin and Fergie, does it?
Surely one of them could start a thread about Karl Mannion's decision to quit intercoiunty football, citing the workload that is being foisted on players as his reason?
I mean if I had to point out a single sheep stealer with a biteen of gumption, it would have to be Karl by a country mile and yet none of our permanents "guests" seem to be concerned one way or the other.
What he has to say concerns all of us and if one of my woolly friends doesn't make a move soon and forget about Mayo for a minute, I'll start one up myself.
I really dont know if syf is a Rossie and a closet rhu or just a rhu in hiding but I do object to his use of that iconic photo of the late Dermot Earley.
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 15, 2015, 01:18:35 PM
I really dont know if syf is a Rossie and a closet rhu or just a rhu in hiding but I do object to his use of that iconic photo of the late Dermot Earley.
Sure Dermot was originally a Rhu. Earley was born in Castlebar, Co Mayo in 1948. He was educated at the local national school and later attended St. Nathy's College in Ballaghaderreen.
Jasus Lar are you stuck in a time warp?
Karoleen packed in the County scene a few years ago ;)
Good man Lar, keep them coming ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Jasus Lar are you stuck in a time warp?
Karoleen packed in the County scene a few years ago ;)
No time warp at all!
Just using the oul' stopwatch to see how long it was going to take you to respond. ;D
I thought it was last year that he resigned but then I don't pay too much attention to anything you uncultured shower gets up to.
I guess you must be getting ould as it was two hours and five minutes before you appeared on the scene. I see Syferus is getting sense, believe it or not, as he didn't rise this time.
Still doesn't take from the act that Mannion raised a serious issue that must be faced up to as it ain't going to go away
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 15, 2015, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Jasus Lar are you stuck in a time warp?
Karoleen packed in the County scene a few years ago ;)
No time warp at all!
Just using the oul' stopwatch to see how long it was going to take you to respond. ;D
I thought it was last year that he resigned but then I don't pay too much attention to anything you uncultured shower gets up to.
I guess you must be getting ould as it was two hours and five minutes before you appeared on the scene. I see Syferus is getting sense, believe it or not, as he didn't rise this time.
Still doesn't take from the act that Mannion raised a serious issue that must be faced up to as it ain't going to go away
Lar, why do you bother with the Wildlings?
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2015, 01:15:42 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 15, 2015, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Jasus Lar are you stuck in a time warp?
Karoleen packed in the County scene a few years ago ;)
No time warp at all!
Just using the oul' stopwatch to see how long it was going to take you to respond. ;D
I thought it was last year that he resigned but then I don't pay too much attention to anything you uncultured shower gets up to.
I guess you must be getting ould as it was two hours and five minutes before you appeared on the scene. I see Syferus is getting sense, believe it or not, as he didn't rise this time.
Still doesn't take from the act that Mannion raised a serious issue that must be faced up to as it ain't going to go away
Lar, why do you bother with the Wildlings?
Because I had eff all else to do and I wanted to see how many were lurking about the place! Rossfan is beginning to show his age as it took him more than two hours to respond. ;D
Poor Shrewdness seems to be ripe for the taking also- a welcome addition to the Woollyheads that park their damn bus on our front lawn every time a Mayo thread is started. Same as Rossfan, he didn't notice that I hadn't said anything about the timing of Mannion's retirement.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 16, 2015, 11:33:17 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2015, 01:15:42 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 15, 2015, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Jasus Lar are you stuck in a time warp?
Karoleen packed in the County scene a few years ago ;)
No time warp at all!
Just using the oul' stopwatch to see how long it was going to take you to respond. ;D
I thought it was last year that he resigned but then I don't pay too much attention to anything you uncultured shower gets up to.
I guess you must be getting ould as it was two hours and five minutes before you appeared on the scene. I see Syferus is getting sense, believe it or not, as he didn't rise this time.
Still doesn't take from the act that Mannion raised a serious issue that must be faced up to as it ain't going to go away
Lar, why do you bother with the Wildlings?
Because I had eff all else to do and I wanted to see how many were lurking about the place! Rossfan is beginning to show his age as it took him more than two hours to respond. ;D
Poor Shrewdness seems to be ripe for the taking also- a welcome addition to the Woollyheads that park their damn bus on our front lawn every time a Mayo thread is started. Same as Rossfan, he didn't notice that I hadn't said anything about the timing of Mannion's retirement.
Mango will be back on the sideline in the future anyways Lar, don't worry.
Can we close down this thread now?
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 22, 2015, 03:31:07 PM
Can we close down this thread now?
Doubt if the Rossies will let that happen
Keep it till next July/Aug when the next heave occurs. :P
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 22, 2015, 03:31:07 PM
Can we close down this thread now?
Have you even interviewed Rochford yet?
Quote from: Syferus on November 22, 2015, 04:09:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 22, 2015, 03:31:07 PM
Can we close down this thread now?
Have you even interviewed Rochford yet?
You should know by now Mayo CB don't do interviews!
Mayo for Sam in 2016.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 22, 2015, 03:47:07 PM
Keep it till next July/Aug when the next heave occurs. :P
We'll be replacing Mayo with Roscommon in the thread title then😜
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/mayomick/GAA/rochford-mitchels_zpsdpdxygx4.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/mayomick/media/GAA/rochford-mitchels_zpsdpdxygx4.jpg.html)
Quote from: mayo.mick on November 22, 2015, 06:31:01 PM
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/mayomick/GAA/rochford-mitchels_zpsdpdxygx4.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/mayomick/media/GAA/rochford-mitchels_zpsdpdxygx4.jpg.html)
Wonder what Declan is roaring at him?
Assuming he now goes on to take the job.Then looking at both Rochford and McStay.
Well then it's quite possible that both might succeed or equally both could fail miserably as neither have the experience of inter county at the top level.
Only difference of course is the expectations.
Mayo's is probably to be in the final 4 come end of championship.
Ros's is probably to try and somehow get past Sligo in Connacht.
Quote from: Nihilist on November 22, 2015, 07:05:46 PM
Assuming he now goes on to take the job.Then looking at both Rochford and McStay.
Well then it's quite possible that both might succeed or equally both could fail miserably as neither have the experience of inter county at the top level.
Only difference of course is the expectations.
Mayo's is probably to be in the final 4 come end of championship.
Ros's is probably to try and somehow get past Sligo in Connacht.
The only goal Mayo's players can have is winning the AI in 2016. Rochford better hope he hits the ground running or his going to hit the wall instead. McStay will be given time to put his stamp on our team. Getting to a Connacht final alone would be enough to get the second year without any real opposition.
In the photo above, Declan is probably wondering what Mayo have let themselves in for by appointing a man that presided over that Corofin performance today. This could all end in tears for Mayo.I`d rather have Mc Stay than Rochford as manager.
Best of luck to him - top operator by all accounts.
The pressure is all on the Mayo players next year if they don't deliver Sam it will be time to replace some of those established players. Rochford should get 2 years at least and I can't see the Mayo county board getting into a habit of regularly changing management.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 22, 2015, 08:19:51 PM
The pressure is all on the Mayo players next year if they don't deliver Sam it will be time to replace some of those established players. Rochford should get 2 years at least and I can't see the Mayo county board getting into a habit of regularly changing management.
Do the Mayo board have any choice in the matter?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 22, 2015, 08:19:51 PM
The pressure is all on the Mayo players next year if they don't deliver Sam it will be time to replace some of those established players. Rochford should get 2 years at least and I can't see the Mayo county board getting into a habit of regularly changing management.
The pressure is on this Mayo team every year since 2012! The expectation is there week in week out come summer. Weather it was the same regime (H&C), Horan or Roachford there would still be pressure to finally get over the line.
As much as if it was Evans, McStay, or some one else the pressure would be on them to get Roscommon to a connacht final and to possibly get to the quarters.
Anything less for both teams will be failure. Regardless of them being capable to achieve their goals.
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 22, 2015, 07:52:01 PM
In the photo above, Declan is probably wondering what Mayo have let themselves in for by appointing a man that presided over that Corofin performance today. This could all end in tears for Mayo.I`d rather have Mc Stay than Rochford as manager.
Corofin today beaten by a fresher team with, if truth be told, better quality players.
Now that people misread the relative merits of the two teams beforehand, they are using Rochford as a scapegoat to explain Corofin's defeat. Sure Corofin won the AI last year but Mitchels made the final year before and with a more astute manager might actually have won it.
You could say Rochford did well to keep his team in the game for so long considering how much they were being outclassed.
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 22, 2015, 08:28:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 22, 2015, 08:19:51 PM
The pressure is all on the Mayo players next year if they don't deliver Sam it will be time to replace some of those established players. Rochford should get 2 years at least and I can't see the Mayo county board getting into a habit of regularly changing management.
The pressure is on this Mayo team every year since 2012! The expectation is there week in week out come summer. Weather it was the same regime (H&C), Horan or Roachford there would still be pressure to finally get over the line.
As much as if it was Evans, McStay, or some one else the pressure would be on them to get Roscommon to a connacht final and to possibly get to the quarters.
Anything less for both teams will be failure. Regardless of them being capable to achieve their goals.
A very different type of pressure on the Mayo players next year and if this panel of Mayo players have already reached their peak like suggested here before then those high expectations will not be achieved.
Pressure couldn t be any higher than it already has been. This set of players have been asked to crossed the white line and perform for a number of years now and they usually have. In fact apart from a couple of horror shows in league they always have performed. Even in the big ones they lost. They also have not been helped by some questionable direction from management at times.
Of course they may well have peaked. We ll have to wait and see.
I think the panel is young enough and hungry enough to still have a say. I also think there is enough new blood to bring in to keep things fresh.
But of course I would think that way, wouldn t I.
Quote from: moysider on November 22, 2015, 08:31:04 PM
Corofin today beaten by a fresher team with, if truth be told, better quality players.
Now that people misread the relative merits of the two teams beforehand, they are using Rochford as a scapegoat to explain Corofin's defeat. Sure Corofin won the AI last year but Mitchels made the final year before and with a more astute manager might actually have won it.
You could say Rochford did well to keep his team in the game for so long considering how much they were being outclassed.
Bit harsh that.
they lost their key player Richie Feeney after 5 mins to that black card. He was their star all through Connacht and it was very harsh on him as the black card was introduced in January and for some reason it was made to apply to a competition that was in progress from the year before. And he had no experience of it as a result.
He was also probably the box to box man to help out with the likes of Connolly and in the final he was clearly pumped up but Eddie Kinsella was unmoved. Anyway its history now but overall there is not much Holmes or any other manager can and could do about those scenarios.
Quote from: moysider on November 22, 2015, 08:31:04 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 22, 2015, 07:52:01 PM
In the photo above, Declan is probably wondering what Mayo have let themselves in for by appointing a man that presided over that Corofin performance today. This could all end in tears for Mayo.I`d rather have Mc Stay than Rochford as manager.
Corofin today beaten by a fresher team with, if truth be told, better quality players.
Now that people misread the relative merits of the two teams beforehand, they are using Rochford as a scapegoat to explain Corofin's defeat. Sure Corofin won the AI last year but Mitchels made the final year before and with a more astute manager might actually have won it.
You could say Rochford did well to keep his team in the game for so long considering how much they were being outclassed.
If vincent's played castlebar tomorrow we'd beat them
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2015, 09:39:58 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 22, 2015, 08:31:04 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 22, 2015, 07:52:01 PM
In the photo above, Declan is probably wondering what Mayo have let themselves in for by appointing a man that presided over that Corofin performance today. This could all end in tears for Mayo.I`d rather have Mc Stay than Rochford as manager.
Corofin today beaten by a fresher team with, if truth be told, better quality players.
Now that people misread the relative merits of the two teams beforehand, they are using Rochford as a scapegoat to explain Corofin's defeat. Sure Corofin won the AI last year but Mitchels made the final year before and with a more astute manager might actually have won it.
You could say Rochford did well to keep his team in the game for so long considering how much they were being outclassed.
If vincent's played castlebar tomorrow we'd beat them
Maybe but I doubt they d be as naïve this time around. Patrick Durcan would be an interesting match up for Connolly.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2015, 09:39:58 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 22, 2015, 08:31:04 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 22, 2015, 07:52:01 PM
In the photo above, Declan is probably wondering what Mayo have let themselves in for by appointing a man that presided over that Corofin performance today. This could all end in tears for Mayo.I`d rather have Mc Stay than Rochford as manager.
Corofin today beaten by a fresher team with, if truth be told, better quality players.
Now that people misread the relative merits of the two teams beforehand, they are using Rochford as a scapegoat to explain Corofin's defeat. Sure Corofin won the AI last year but Mitchels made the final year before and with a more astute manager might actually have won it.
You could say Rochford did well to keep his team in the game for so long considering how much they were being outclassed.
If vincent's played castlebar tomorrow we'd beat them
Fresher legs would be a serious advantage.
Quote from: ballinaman on November 22, 2015, 10:49:09 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2015, 09:39:58 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 22, 2015, 08:31:04 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 22, 2015, 07:52:01 PM
In the photo above, Declan is probably wondering what Mayo have let themselves in for by appointing a man that presided over that Corofin performance today. This could all end in tears for Mayo.I`d rather have Mc Stay than Rochford as manager.
Corofin today beaten by a fresher team with, if truth be told, better quality players.
Now that people misread the relative merits of the two teams beforehand, they are using Rochford as a scapegoat to explain Corofin's defeat. Sure Corofin won the AI last year but Mitchels made the final year before and with a more astute manager might actually have won it.
You could say Rochford did well to keep his team in the game for so long considering how much they were being outclassed.
If vincent's played castlebar tomorrow we'd beat them
Fresher legs would be a serious advantage.
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2015, 09:39:58 PM
Quote from: moysider on November 22, 2015, 08:31:04 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 22, 2015, 07:52:01 PM
In the photo above, Declan is probably wondering what Mayo have let themselves in for by appointing a man that presided over that Corofin performance today. This could all end in tears for Mayo.I`d rather have Mc Stay than Rochford as manager.
Corofin today beaten by a fresher team with, if truth be told, better quality players.
Now that people misread the relative merits of the two teams beforehand, they are using Rochford as a scapegoat to explain Corofin's defeat. Sure Corofin won the AI last year but Mitchels made the final year before and with a more astute manager might actually have won it.
You could say Rochford did well to keep his team in the game for so long considering how much they were being outclassed.
If vincent's played castlebar tomorrow we'd beat them
I agree.
Because most of our team are still in Mick Byrne's.
The biggest disappointment in Kevin McStay's GAA career was not getting selected as Mayo senior manager last year. http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/snub-for-mayo-job-kevin-mcstays-big-regret-366719.html
I see that Rochford is to be formally ratified - someday next week. About time to call a halt to the proceedings and appoint him. Time will tell if giveballaghback is correct or not. If he is, I'll be one of the first to admit it. I just hope he's not. ;)
Interesting backroom team, McEntee should be a great addition.
Was disappointed Carey didn't take the Knockmore job last winter, I've heard good reports about him
Horan, while he is local has plenty of pedigree
Hopefully they can work together and theres not too many egos
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 26, 2015, 09:08:44 AM
Interesting backroom team, McEntee should be a great addition.
Was disappointed Carey didn't take the Knockmore job last winter, I've heard good reports about him
Horan, while he is local has plenty of pedigree
Hopefully they can work together and theres not too many egos
Looks good alright going by what I found on Hoganstand (http://"http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=247364")
St Brigids are probably about the 4th or 5th best team in Dublin "on paper".
McEntee managed them to 14th position in Division 1 this year. So his last game in charge is a relegation playoff against Templeogue on Sunday.
Anyone any updates on the Mayo finances? Have they got some new source of funding or something?
Last season they had to cut the panel during the league because of finances and now they have assembled a very serious looking backroom team. Something doesn't seem to add up?
Quote from: twohands!!! on November 26, 2015, 12:56:13 PM
Anyone any updates on the Mayo finances? Have they got some new source of funding or something?
Last season they had to cut the panel during the league because of finances and now they have assembled a very serious looking backroom team. Something doesn't seem to add up?
Sold a rake of fields around Ballagh back to the Rossies for the bypass...made a fortune off them. Let the good times roll...
Seems like an expensive backroom team surely anything less than sam will result in another player coop. Saying that I have never heard of anyone training a donkey to win the derby
Quote from: Shannoncider on November 26, 2015, 01:36:41 PM
Seems like an expensive backroom team surely anything less than sam will result in another player coop. Saying that I have never heard of anyone training a donkey to win the derby
I agree with you. You have to look no further than John Evans to see that it can't be done.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 24, 2015, 07:00:20 AM
The biggest disappointment in Kevin McStay's GAA career was not getting selected as Mayo senior manager last year. http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/snub-for-mayo-job-kevin-mcstays-big-regret-366719.html
It says he was overlooked in 1996 for the post. There was no Vacancy for the post in '96?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 26, 2015, 01:52:58 PM
Quote from: Shannoncider on November 26, 2015, 01:36:41 PM
Seems like an expensive backroom team surely anything less than sam will result in another player coop. Saying that I have never heard of anyone training a donkey to win the derby
I agree with you. You have to look no further than John Evans to see that it can't be done.
Who's Evans managing?
A big string of Mayo managers over the past 64 years have also shown that you can't train a donkey to win a derby.
Quote from: Hound on November 26, 2015, 12:01:42 PM
St Brigids are probably about the 4th or 5th best team in Dublin "on paper".
McEntee managed them to 14th position in Division 1 this year. So his last game in charge is a relegation playoff against Templeogue on Sunday.
Tried to totally change their way of playing, said he spent his first months in charge getting them to just kick the ball again. They have been a massive disappointment alright.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 26, 2015, 01:52:58 PM
Quote from: Shannoncider on November 26, 2015, 01:36:41 PM
Seems like an expensive backroom team surely anything less than sam will result in another player coop. Saying that I have never heard of anyone training a donkey to win the derby
I agree with you. You have to look no further than John Evans to see that it can't be done.
He is well able to commentate on them anyway, back in the day when he had some hair https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XtVm8z28e4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XtVm8z28e4)
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 26, 2015, 03:14:38 PM
A big string of Mayo managers over the past 64 years have also shown that you can't train a donkey to win a derby.
Winning Derby's has never been a problem for Mayo Managers, it's the challenges beyond that, that are the problem.
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 26, 2015, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on November 26, 2015, 03:14:38 PM
A big string of Mayo managers over the past 64 years have also shown that you can't train a donkey to win a derby.
Winning Derby's has never been a problem for Mayo Managers, it's the challenges beyond that, that are the problem.
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 26, 2015, 03:16:57 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 26, 2015, 12:01:42 PM
St Brigids are probably about the 4th or 5th best team in Dublin "on paper".
McEntee managed them to 14th position in Division 1 this year. So his last game in charge is a relegation playoff against Templeogue on Sunday.
Tried to totally change their way of playing, said he spent his first months in charge getting them to just kick the ball again. They have been a massive disappointment alright.
Is that was McEntee said or more BS from Joe Brolly? St Brigids won the Dublin championship only 4 years ago I don't think they needed to learn to kick the ball.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 26, 2015, 03:16:57 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 26, 2015, 12:01:42 PM
St Brigids are probably about the 4th or 5th best team in Dublin "on paper".
McEntee managed them to 14th position in Division 1 this year. So his last game in charge is a relegation playoff against Templeogue on Sunday.
Tried to totally change their way of playing, said he spent his first months in charge getting them to just kick the ball again. They have been a massive disappointment alright.
Sounds like it's McEntee who was the major disappointment.
Well McEntee is not Managing Mayo. Does anybody know what his role is?
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 26, 2015, 06:45:57 PM
Well McEntee is not Managing Mayo. Does anybody know what his role is?
Training the Mayo panellists based in Dublin if the leaks that were proven 100% correct so far are right. Probably a selector in name and second in command in action.
That's a good backroom team for Mayo.
I'd be prioritising the defense and the rate of conceding goals, having a reliable spotter in the stands, having and trained for plans A, B & C.
Even without a marquee forward, Mayo won't be far away if they can do that.
Quote from: heffo on November 26, 2015, 07:44:08 PM
That's a good backroom team for Mayo.
I'd be prioritising the defense and the rate of conceding goals, having a reliable spotter in the stands, having and trained for plans A, B & C.
Even without a marquee forward, Mayo won't be far away if they can do that.
That's the thing though. Being not far away wont be good enough again. We ve been close for 4 years.
It looks like a good set up I agree. It'll be interesting to see what happens now. Not aware of any retirements and a couple of younger lads may well be pushing for places.
Quote from: moysider on November 27, 2015, 12:27:47 AM
Quote from: heffo on November 26, 2015, 07:44:08 PM
That's a good backroom team for Mayo.
I'd be prioritising the defense and the rate of conceding goals, having a reliable spotter in the stands, having and trained for plans A, B & C.
Even without a marquee forward, Mayo won't be far away if they can do that.
That's the thing though. Being not far away wont be good enough again. We ve been close for 4 years.
It looks like a good set up I agree. It'll be interesting to see what happens now. Not aware of any retirements and a couple of younger lads may well be pushing for places.
What purpose does Alan Dillion see in training for another six months with maybe a few minutes of league time being the best of his lot?
Quote from: Syferus on November 27, 2015, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 27, 2015, 12:27:47 AM
Quote from: heffo on November 26, 2015, 07:44:08 PM
That's a good backroom team for Mayo.
I'd be prioritising the defense and the rate of conceding goals, having a reliable spotter in the stands, having and trained for plans A, B & C.
Even without a marquee forward, Mayo won't be far away if they can do that.
That's the thing though. Being not far away wont be good enough again. We ve been close for 4 years.
It looks like a good set up I agree. It'll be interesting to see what happens now. Not aware of any retirements and a couple of younger lads may well be pushing for places.
What purpose does Alan Dillion see in training for another six months with maybe a few minutes of league time being the best of his lot?
Well he will probably have more interest in what Rochford thinks he can offer than an obsessed Rossie.
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2015, 07:09:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 26, 2015, 06:45:57 PM
Well McEntee is not Managing Mayo. Does anybody know what his role is?
Training the Mayo panellists based in Dublin if the leaks that were proven 100% correct so far are right. Probably a selector in name and second in command in action.
Jack Cooney was doing this for the Dublin based Donegal lads last year and didn't work well for them, He was also a selector. Don't see having lads training apart can help a team.
Quote from: Syferus on November 27, 2015, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 27, 2015, 12:27:47 AM
Quote from: heffo on November 26, 2015, 07:44:08 PM
That's a good backroom team for Mayo.
I'd be prioritising the defense and the rate of conceding goals, having a reliable spotter in the stands, having and trained for plans A, B & C.
Even without a marquee forward, Mayo won't be far away if they can do that.
That's the thing though. Being not far away wont be good enough again. We ve been close for 4 years.
It looks like a good set up I agree. It'll be interesting to see what happens now. Not aware of any retirements and a couple of younger lads may well be pushing for places.
What purpose does Alan Dillion see in training for another six months with maybe a few minutes of league time being the best of his lot?
Maybe it's because he thinks it's better getting an AI medal as a sub than getting none at all. What do you think?
Quote from: Tubberman on November 27, 2015, 07:10:12 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 27, 2015, 12:38:01 AM
What purpose does Alan Dillion see in training for another six months with maybe a few minutes of league time being the best of his lot?
Well he will probably have more interest in what Rochford thinks he can offer than an obsessed Rossie.
Take hint Syfín and stop being an arse licking amadàn of Rhubarbism.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 27, 2015, 10:08:54 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 27, 2015, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 27, 2015, 12:27:47 AM
Quote from: heffo on November 26, 2015, 07:44:08 PM
That's a good backroom team for Mayo.
I'd be prioritising the defense and the rate of conceding goals, having a reliable spotter in the stands, having and trained for plans A, B & C.
Even without a marquee forward, Mayo won't be far away if they can do that.
That's the thing though. Being not far away wont be good enough again. We ve been close for 4 years.
It looks like a good set up I agree. It'll be interesting to see what happens now. Not aware of any retirements and a couple of younger lads may well be pushing for places.
What purpose does Alan Dillion see in training for another six months with maybe a few minutes of league time being the best of his lot?
Maybe it's because he thinks it's better getting an AI medal as a sub than getting none at all. What do you think?
James Masters voiced the exact opposite opinion to that just two days ago.
Quote from: Syferus on November 27, 2015, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 27, 2015, 10:08:54 AM
Quote from: Syferus on November 27, 2015, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: moysider on November 27, 2015, 12:27:47 AM
Quote from: heffo on November 26, 2015, 07:44:08 PM
That's a good backroom team for Mayo.
I'd be prioritising the defense and the rate of conceding goals, having a reliable spotter in the stands, having and trained for plans A, B & C.
Even without a marquee forward, Mayo won't be far away if they can do that.
That's the thing though. Being not far away wont be good enough again. We ve been close for 4 years.
It looks like a good set up I agree. It'll be interesting to see what happens now. Not aware of any retirements and a couple of younger lads may well be pushing for places.
What purpose does Alan Dillion see in training for another six months with maybe a few minutes of league time being the best of his lot?
Maybe it's because he thinks it's better getting an AI medal as a sub than getting none at all. What do you think?
James Masters voiced the exact opposite opinion to that just two days ago.
Conor Counihan did not fancy Masters and gradually weaned him out of that Cork team. He retired from intercounty at 27! From what I read about him with Nemo ''
With the club this year I've also had a whole host of injuries and I've been on and off the team because of them. I've got hip problems . . . if I can play a small part and get a point or two I'll be delighted."Sounds to be in the same boat as Dillon for his club.
Tonight is the night I'm reading . The finest of luck to Stephen Rochford and all involved in 16. The dream that has never died enters a new phase. Fook all the begrudgers , Mayo for Sam .
QuoteI'm not being funny , I think we will walk it. We didn't go full tilt in Connacht last year because of 13 where it was said we peaked too early in Connacht and Q/f v Donegal running out of steam in the second half of final and a bit rusty v Tyrone in semi too. This year will be different IMO ,the all Ireland dream is over but Connacht will be gone at hammer and tongs and both Galway and Ros won't live with that sort of robust energy Mayo are capable of.
QuoteThe dream that has never died enters a new phase.
Which dream are you dreaming about these days?
Mayo for Sam 2016
There is only one thing that makes a dream impossible to achieve : the fear of failure.
Definition of Failure
1 - Lack of success.
2- The neglect or omission of expected or required action.
3 - M :)y ;D
Quote from: highorlow on November 30, 2015, 01:02:27 PM
QuoteI'm not being funny , I think we will walk it. We didn't go full tilt in Connacht last year because of 13 where it was said we peaked too early in Connacht and Q/f v Donegal running out of steam in the second half of final and a bit rusty v Tyrone in semi too. This year will be different IMO ,the all Ireland dream is over but Connacht will be gone at hammer and tongs and both Galway and Ros won't live with that sort of robust energy Mayo are capable of.
QuoteThe dream that has never died enters a new phase.
Which dream are you dreaming about these days?
To be fair it's not easy to keep track of what is wrote when you have many different usernames.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 30, 2015, 01:02:27 PM
QuoteI'm not being funny , I think we will walk it. We didn't go full tilt in Connacht last year because of 13 where it was said we peaked too early in Connacht and Q/f v Donegal running out of steam in the second half of final and a bit rusty v Tyrone in semi too. This year will be different IMO ,the all Ireland dream is over but Connacht will be gone at hammer and tongs and both Galway and Ros won't live with that sort of robust energy Mayo are capable of.
QuoteThe dream that has never died enters a new phase.
Which dream are you dreaming about these days?
To be fair it's not easy to keep track of what is wrote when you have many different usernames.
Says the poster who joined last month. ;D
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 30, 2015, 01:02:27 PM
QuoteI'm not being funny , I think we will walk it. We didn't go full tilt in Connacht last year because of 13 where it was said we peaked too early in Connacht and Q/f v Donegal running out of steam in the second half of final and a bit rusty v Tyrone in semi too. This year will be different IMO ,the all Ireland dream is over but Connacht will be gone at hammer and tongs and both Galway and Ros won't live with that sort of robust energy Mayo are capable of.
QuoteThe dream that has never died enters a new phase.
Which dream are you dreaming about these days?
To be fair it's not easy to keep track of what is wrote when you have many different usernames.
Says the poster who joined last month. ;D
Does it matter when I joined? You can read this forum without any account.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:37:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 30, 2015, 01:02:27 PM
QuoteI'm not being funny , I think we will walk it. We didn't go full tilt in Connacht last year because of 13 where it was said we peaked too early in Connacht and Q/f v Donegal running out of steam in the second half of final and a bit rusty v Tyrone in semi too. This year will be different IMO ,the all Ireland dream is over but Connacht will be gone at hammer and tongs and both Galway and Ros won't live with that sort of robust energy Mayo are capable of.
QuoteThe dream that has never died enters a new phase.
Which dream are you dreaming about these days?
To be fair it's not easy to keep track of what is wrote when you have many different usernames.
Says the poster who joined last month. ;D
Does it matter when I joined? You can read this forum without any account.
Yes you can, but your options are very limited. It is difficult to follow anything or anyone. Of course if you have other older accounts, that wouldn't be a problem. ;D
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 06:47:30 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:37:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 30, 2015, 01:02:27 PM
QuoteI'm not being funny , I think we will walk it. We didn't go full tilt in Connacht last year because of 13 where it was said we peaked too early in Connacht and Q/f v Donegal running out of steam in the second half of final and a bit rusty v Tyrone in semi too. This year will be different IMO ,the all Ireland dream is over but Connacht will be gone at hammer and tongs and both Galway and Ros won't live with that sort of robust energy Mayo are capable of.
QuoteThe dream that has never died enters a new phase.
Which dream are you dreaming about these days?
To be fair it's not easy to keep track of what is wrote when you have many different usernames.
Says the poster who joined last month. ;D
Does it matter when I joined? You can read this forum without any account.
Yes you can, but your options are very limited. It is difficult to follow anything or anyone. Of course if you have other older accounts, that wouldn't be a problem. ;D
;D
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 06:47:30 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:37:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 30, 2015, 01:02:27 PM
QuoteI'm not being funny , I think we will walk it. We didn't go full tilt in Connacht last year because of 13 where it was said we peaked too early in Connacht and Q/f v Donegal running out of steam in the second half of final and a bit rusty v Tyrone in semi too. This year will be different IMO ,the all Ireland dream is over but Connacht will be gone at hammer and tongs and both Galway and Ros won't live with that sort of robust energy Mayo are capable of.
QuoteThe dream that has never died enters a new phase.
Which dream are you dreaming about these days?
To be fair it's not easy to keep track of what is wrote when you have many different usernames.
Says the poster who joined last month. ;D
Does it matter when I joined? You can read this forum without any account.
Yes you can, but your options are very limited. It is difficult to follow anything or anyone. Of course if you have other older accounts, that wouldn't be a problem. ;D
As a long time reader of this forum the only thing I find difficult to follow is random smiley faces at the end of posts.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 07:32:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 06:47:30 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:37:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 30, 2015, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 30, 2015, 01:02:27 PM
QuoteI'm not being funny , I think we will walk it. We didn't go full tilt in Connacht last year because of 13 where it was said we peaked too early in Connacht and Q/f v Donegal running out of steam in the second half of final and a bit rusty v Tyrone in semi too. This year will be different IMO ,the all Ireland dream is over but Connacht will be gone at hammer and tongs and both Galway and Ros won't live with that sort of robust energy Mayo are capable of.
QuoteThe dream that has never died enters a new phase.
Which dream are you dreaming about these days?
To be fair it's not easy to keep track of what is wrote when you have many different usernames.
Says the poster who joined last month. ;D
Does it matter when I joined? You can read this forum without any account.
Yes you can, but your options are very limited. It is difficult to follow anything or anyone. Of course if you have other older accounts, that wouldn't be a problem. ;D
As a long time reader of this forum the only thing I find difficult to follow is random smiley faces at the end of posts.
I'm sure if you ask someone will explain them to you. ;D
Ratified . 3 year term . Six in a row ere we go.
When does the heave start? ;D
Ratified for an initial 3 year term which will be reviewed annually. Selectors are normally those that see the most club football within the county I doubt Buckley or McEntee has seen much club football in Mayo this year.
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 30, 2015, 09:55:03 PM
Ratified for an initial 3 year term which will be reviewed annually. Selectors are normally those that see the most club football within the county I doubt Buckley or McEntee has seen much club football in Mayo this year.
Rochford and Carey will look after that.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/1130/750328-mayo/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/1130/750328-mayo/)
Former minor star Rocheford - the Crossmolina man captained Mayo to All-Ireland glory at underage level in 1995 - guided Galway club side Corofin to a national club title earlier this year.
I must have missed that one. Have we been upgraded due to the Russian doping ban or something?
http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/26872-rochford-ratified-as-mayo-manager
Nice to hear that surplus word .
QuoteThe Garrymore clubman revealed that Mayo took in almost €3 million in 2015, compared to €270,000 when he first took up the position in 1997.
One hell of an increase there in less than 20 years.
"maybe we haven't been as professional as we should have been" via TMN
God, imagine if that was the final piece in the jigsaw and Mayo made it to paradise. It would be unmissable. The sheer outpouring of emotion. The pint drinking. The endless reruns of videos.
Apparently Rochford is very well prepared. I hope this goes well.
Good luck and good night.
Very in depth preparation with Corofin so Mayo should be a bit more consistent in the big matches
It's all about translating data into performance in the tightest matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg1Cx26-928
Quote from: sligoman2 on October 30, 2015, 10:02:12 PM
We are very close to 55 pages on something that has yet to happen.
Jaysus I don't know anymore. Wake me up when Rochford gets the job.
;) ;)
Okay now I'm awake. That was a good long snooze
New Mayo manager going to be on Off The Ball tonight.
Quote from: Beffs on December 01, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
New Mayo manager going to be on Off The Ball tonight.
Interesting.
Sounds like he's going to change our style a bit. Talking about getting the ball forward quicker which means kicking the ball more. It ll be interesting to see how that goes.
Just listened to it here
http://mayoclub51.com/podcasts/2015-podcasts/
Quote from: moysider on December 01, 2015, 09:40:34 PM
Quote from: Beffs on December 01, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
New Mayo manager going to be on Off The Ball tonight.
Interesting.
Sounds like he's going to change our style a bit. Talking about getting the ball forward quicker which means kicking the ball more. It ll be interesting to see how that goes.
Ye were doing plenty of kicking up in Dublin this year, most of it pointless.
Quote from: Syferus on December 02, 2015, 12:45:39 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 01, 2015, 09:40:34 PM
Quote from: Beffs on December 01, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
New Mayo manager going to be on Off The Ball tonight.
Interesting.
Sounds like he's going to change our style a bit. Talking about getting the ball forward quicker which means kicking the ball more. It ll be interesting to see how that goes.
Ye were doing plenty of kicking up in Dublin this year, most of it pointless.
How right you are, of course. Jaysis... just think of what awaits if Rochford makes our kicking pointful!
Quote from: Syferus on December 02, 2015, 12:45:39 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 01, 2015, 09:40:34 PM
Quote from: Beffs on December 01, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
New Mayo manager going to be on Off The Ball tonight.
Interesting.
Sounds like he's going to change our style a bit. Talking about getting the ball forward quicker which means kicking the ball more. It ll be interesting to see how that goes.
Ye were doing plenty of kicking up in Dublin this year, most of it pointless.
Like your posts so
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on December 02, 2015, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 02, 2015, 12:45:39 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 01, 2015, 09:40:34 PM
Quote from: Beffs on December 01, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
New Mayo manager going to be on Off The Ball tonight.
Interesting.
Sounds like he's going to change our style a bit. Talking about getting the ball forward quicker which means kicking the ball more. It ll be interesting to see how that goes.
Ye were doing plenty of kicking up in Dublin this year, most of it pointless.
Like your posts so
If they had no point they wouldn't get under your skin so much.
Quote from: Syferus on December 02, 2015, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on December 02, 2015, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 02, 2015, 12:45:39 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 01, 2015, 09:40:34 PM
Quote from: Beffs on December 01, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
New Mayo manager going to be on Off The Ball tonight.
Interesting.
Sounds like he's going to change our style a bit. Talking about getting the ball forward quicker which means kicking the ball more. It ll be interesting to see how that goes.
Ye were doing plenty of kicking up in Dublin this year, most of it pointless.
Like your posts so
If they had no point they wouldn't get under your skin so much.
Believe a wide, with no point, can get under your skin.
Quote from: muppet on December 02, 2015, 11:46:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 02, 2015, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on December 02, 2015, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 02, 2015, 12:45:39 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 01, 2015, 09:40:34 PM
Quote from: Beffs on December 01, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
New Mayo manager going to be on Off The Ball tonight.
Interesting.
Sounds like he's going to change our style a bit. Talking about getting the ball forward quicker which means kicking the ball more. It ll be interesting to see how that goes.
Ye were doing plenty of kicking up in Dublin this year, most of it pointless.
Like your posts so
If they had no point they wouldn't get under your skin so much.
Believe a wide, with no point, can get under your skin.
If you say so.
I have to say it's going to be interesting to watch Mayo this year, and interesting to see how much input my mate has on things. The talent is undoubtedly there. I know Armagh won't win it so I'm nailing my colours to the Mayo mast this year and cheering them for Sam!!!
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 02, 2015, 03:11:14 PM
I have to say it's going to be interesting to watch Mayo this year, and interesting to see how much input my mate has on things. The talent is undoubtedly there. I know Armagh won't win it so I'm nailing my colours to the Mayo mast this year and cheering them for Sam!!!
Just like Cross, Mayo's run will come to an end against a Roscommon team..
Quote from: Syferus on December 02, 2015, 03:13:32 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 02, 2015, 03:11:14 PM
I have to say it's going to be interesting to watch Mayo this year, and interesting to see how much input my mate has on things. The talent is undoubtedly there. I know Armagh won't win it so I'm nailing my colours to the Mayo mast this year and cheering them for Sam!!!
Just like Cross, Mayo's run will come to an end against a Roscommon team..
Castlebar are in Mayo are they not?
Brigids must of beat cross the year they won it but sy puts it in the context cross are finished forgetting who has just won the Ulster championship , so I'm struggling to see the sense in the post but fair play to him calling Ross to bate us next year.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 02, 2015, 03:11:14 PM
. I know Armagh won't win it so I'm nailing my colours to the Mayo mast this year and cheering them for Sam!!!
Clean out your mouth man.
Quote from: larryin89 on December 02, 2015, 04:51:01 PM
Brigids must of beat crosstype of run Mayo haven't had since year they won it but sy puts it in the context cross are finished forgetting who has just won the Ulster championship , so I'm struggling to see the sense in the post but fair play to him calling Ross to bate us next year.
When beaten in that All Ireland semi final 2013 Crossmaglen were going for three in a row All Irelands. A type of run Mayo seniors haven't had since 1951.
What's the story with the Cairde Maigh Eo tickets for 2016? Do you still get the Jacket, umbrella and beanie?
Quote from: larryin89 on December 02, 2015, 04:51:01 PM
Brigids must of beat cross the year they won it but sy puts it in the context cross are finished forgetting who has just won the Ulster championship , so I'm struggling to see the sense in the post but fair play to him calling Ross to bate us next year.
That's the understatement of the year, if not the millennium!
Why did you expect to find any sort of sense in a post from Syf?;D
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 02, 2015, 07:20:22 PM
Why did you expect to find any sort of sense in a post from Syf?;D
+1 :D ;D
Jasus Lar that's twice I've agreed witha post of yours this week. I probably need to see a doctor :o
The search, not that much searching was done is over now time for a title change to this thread.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 02, 2015, 09:07:58 PM
The search, not that much searching was done is over now time for a title change to this thread.
Time to close her down and wait for doul FBD to come around.
Do any of our own have any doubts about Rochford? IE his intentions to change up the play , is this team too far in to establish a new game plan?
Larry, I think you really are Sean Burke in disguise. Negative all the way.
Not Sean Burke and I don't believe I was being negative either , was just posing a question ,trying to widen the discussion on how radical people think SR will try to be in changing game plan etc ,as he kinda hinted at it in his interview .
Quote from: Mayo Border on December 02, 2015, 11:40:17 PM
Larry, I think you really are Sean Burke in disguise. Negative all the way.
Sean Burke? Who he?
Quote from: larryin89 on December 02, 2015, 09:50:02 PM
Do any of our own have any doubts about Rochford? IE his intentions to change up the play , is this team too far in to establish a new game plan?
I would. Our approach needs to be tweaked with small changes here and there not ripping it up and starting again.Plan A should always be our running game its what were good at.Add in accurate kicking to a ball winner at ff who has some support and were on to a winner. I dont know much about Tony Mc Entee but i hope he dosent try and stifle us by using a blanket.Its not our natural game and i think it would be a disaster if we go down that road.IMO i dont think we will but stopping the concession of goals has to be the priority.
Tony McEntee is from the Crossmaglen coaching tree. I doubt he'd be a blanket defense advocate. If anything he'd be more of a direct ball man I'd have thought.
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 03, 2015, 04:35:45 PM
Tony McEntee is from the Crossmaglen coaching tree. I doubt he'd be a blanket defense advocate. If anything he'd be more of a direct ball man I'd have thought.
No point kicking in long direct ball when you have shite forwards inside. Maybe blanket defence and break at pace is the way Mayo need to go
Not my point. mayoman dan was talking about blanket defence, and I wouldn't think that's the way Tony Mc would rock.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 02, 2015, 03:11:14 PM
I have to say it's going to be interesting to watch Mayo this year, and interesting to see how much input my mate has on things. The talent is undoubtedly there. I know Armagh won't win it so I'm nailing my colours to the Mayo mast this year and cheering them for Sam!!!
me too
I look forward to the day that Mayo come up against 14 men.
I remember when Crossmolina played Dunshaughlin in the All-Ireland club semi in 2002 and Rochie / Rochford / Stephen (what are we calling him?!) gave an exhibition of how to play as the extra man when Dunshaughlin had a man send off close to half time.
I think the announcement of Rochford's backroom team shows him up to be a shrewd operator. A link to the good things of before and quality brought in with McEntee.
McEntee is a powerful advocate of the kicking game and a shrewd operator I would think this is Mayo's last roll of the dice. Someone had mentioned they don't want to see too much change to the gameplan?? As Einstein said Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the different results. It's time Mayo started something new or their time will run out!!
Quote from: screenexile on December 04, 2015, 12:19:10 PM
I think the announcement of Rochford's backroom team shows him up to be a shrewd operator. A link to the good things of before and quality brought in with McEntee.
McEntee is a powerful advocate of the kicking game and a shrewd operator I would think this is Mayo's last roll of the dice. Someone had mentioned they don't want to see too much change to the gameplan?? As Einstein said Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the different results. It's time Mayo started something new or their time will run out!!
I see what you're saying and I'd partly agree but two things , how long does it take a team to get used of a new system after playing a certain style for five years ? Secondly , if you were to look at Mayo in this era and be neither bias or anti , you'd have to agree there has never been a team as close without getting their hands on Sam . People are too quick (self included) to put our failure to land Sam as just another same old chapter in mayos history since 89 but this era is completely different to any other now at this stage . Also, I don't know why people assume Mayo are just going to drift away once we see the retirements come in the next couple of years ,I honestly believe we will never drift away like is being predicted ,consistently competitive was horans idea and it will be his legacy imo.
Quote from: larryin89 on December 04, 2015, 07:29:50 PM
Also, I don't know why people assume Mayo are just going to drift away once we see the retirements come in the next couple of years ,I honestly believe we will never drift away like is being predicted ,consistently competitive was horans idea and it will be his legacy imo.
K Higgins,T Cunniffe, C Boyle, 2 Morans,S O Shea,Dillon etc if the quality coming in to replace those players isn't the same then its only natural that Mayo will drift in the next couple of years.
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 04, 2015, 07:49:04 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 04, 2015, 07:29:50 PM
Also, I don't know why people assume Mayo are just going to drift away once we see the retirements come in the next couple of years ,I honestly believe we will never drift away like is being predicted ,consistently competitive was horans idea and it will be his legacy imo.
K Higgins,T Cunniffe, C Boyle, 2 Morans,S O Shea,Dillon etc if the quality coming in to replace those players isn't the same then its only natural that Mayo will drift in the next couple of years.
Dillon has been on the wane for a few years as injuries have set in. We lost Andy in his prime and it could be argued that his injury cost us big time. He has contributed since of course. We ve had to cope without Cunniffe for long periods as well and likewise Barry Moran.
Higgins and Boyle are 2 special players that ye don t get too often but lads like Patrick Durkan and Michael Hall are quality footballing backs.
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 08:53:13 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 04, 2015, 07:49:04 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 04, 2015, 07:29:50 PM
Also, I don't know why people assume Mayo are just going to drift away once we see the retirements come in the next couple of years ,I honestly believe we will never drift away like is being predicted ,consistently competitive was horans idea and it will be his legacy imo.
K Higgins,T Cunniffe, C Boyle, 2 Morans,S O Shea,Dillon etc if the quality coming in to replace those players isn't the same then its only natural that Mayo will drift in the next couple of years.
Dillon has been on the wane for a few years as injuries have set in. We lost Andy in his prime and it could be argued that his injury cost us big time. He has contributed since of course. We ve had to cope without Cunniffe for long periods as well and likewise Barry Moran.
Higgins and Boyle are 2 special players that ye don t get too often but lads like Patrick Durkan and Michael Hall are quality footballing backs.
Ye need more than two players in the coming years Moy. The best of the underage players ye have produced in the last three years is off in Aussie land with the brother.
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
Maybe yer right , only time will tell I suppose.
To me we also have seasoned lads who have at least three good years ahead of them in AOS, Keegan, Cillian (plus) , Parsons. Players introduced this year like Young Durcan and obviously Diarmuid look like very promising prospects . If we were to add two more to in and around the first fifteen this year like Douglas/Regan/hall and hopefully another 13 minor like Tommy goals perhaps , I'd argue we are on track and pretty much the polar opposite to what some are forecasting . There is a real buzz to Mayo GAA these last few years , maybe I'm being optimistic but I believe we have created something special but like I said only time will prove who is right.
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Don't have to be touchy to recognise you're talking through your hole.
Quote from: Tubberman on December 05, 2015, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Don't have to be touchy to recognise you're talking through your hole.
..and a clubman predictably comes along to defend someone he (probably) knows personally.
Where exactly are DOC's great performances at senior pre-Dublin? Fair comment is fair comment. Talented player (even though critical of him that I've talked to were adamant of that) but Moy's premise was no one expected him to 'emerge so soon', but he'd already got a longer leash than most young players, something even Mayo supporters here admitted only a few months ago. Players emerged faster and slower than DOC, if it pans out he can now produce like he did in those two games consistently. There was nothing particularly fast about it.
You need to toughen up a little and not take it personally. Lord knows if I took all the shite here personally I'd be in some state.
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Pity Roscommon don't have anyone as good as him
Indiana arse licking Mayo.
Quote from: Shrewdness on December 05, 2015, 08:05:43 PM
Indiana arse licking Mayo.
calling it as it is. DOC is a serious player. Only Mayo forward we'd want
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 05, 2015, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Don't have to be touchy to recognise you're talking through your hole.
..and a clubman predictably comes along to defend someone he (probably) knows personally.
Where exactly are DOC's great performances at senior pre-Dublin? Fair comment is fair comment. Talented player (even though critical of him that I've talked to were adamant of that) but Moy's premise was no one expected him to 'emerge so soon', but he'd already got a longer leash than most young players, something even Mayo supporters here admitted only a few months ago. Players emerged faster and slower than DOC, if it pans out he can now produce like he did in those two games consistently. There was nothing particularly fast about it.
You need to toughen up a little and not take it personally. Lord knows if I took all the shite here personally I'd be in some state.
I have to say from reading your posts and those of others, you get more shite than anyone on here Syferus and you do take it very well. :) A lot of people would need to learn to turn the other cheek to some extent.
Ah jaysus Syf, you deserved to be canonised. ;D
The lengths you are going to to smarten the lot of us thick Mayo hoors and ne'er a one of us showing even a biteen of gratitude for the trouble you're going to.
Maybe that's because we don't see any problems and can't understand what it is that's putting you off yer oats.
Diarmuid O'Connor?? Was he fast or slow coming or does it matter one iota? Point is; he has arrived-full stop.
He got YPOTY this year even without the 'bounce' of an ASI appearance, never mind a win like McCaffrey had. Furthermore, he was a runaway winner of the Mayo Gaa Blog poll for Player of the Year award.
Here, he was up against an assload of long-established favourites like Leroy and Zippy and the Bears and Big Bro and he still finished way ahead of the posse.
He may not measure up to your standards but he's A plus with me and I imagine every Mayo head for miles around will say the same.
Don't fret about the team either, or the manager for that matter; there's no crisis of any sort anywhere. Every Mayo fan, from Ballaghadereen to Belmullet and Killala to Killery Harbour don't know what the fuss is about.
The team will be under no extra pressure to do anything next year, as long as they do their best, the fans will back them. It's as simple as that.
So, thanks for your concern for our welfare but I'm afraid you're wasting your time. We're happy as we are and won't be changing anything any time soon.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 05, 2015, 10:54:06 PM
Ah jaysus Syf, you deserved to be canonised. ;D
The lengths you are going to to smarten the lot of us thick Mayo hoors and ne'er a one of us showing even a biteen of gratitude for the trouble you're going to.
Maybe that's because we don't see any problems and can't understand what it is that's putting you off yer oats.
Diarmuid O'Connor?? Was he fast or slow coming or does it matter one iota? Point is; he has arrived-full stop.
He got YPOTY this year even without the 'bounce' of an ASI appearance, never mind a win like McCaffrey had. Furthermore, he was a runaway winner of the Mayo Gaa Blog poll for Player of the Year award.
Here, he was up against an assload of long-established favourites like Leroy and Zippy and the Bears and Big Bro and he still finished way ahead of the posse.
He may not measure up to your standards but he's A plus with me and I imagine every Mayo head for miles around will say the same.
Don't fret about the team either, or the manager for that matter; there's no crisis of any sort anywhere. Every Mayo fan, from Ballaghadereen to Belmullet and Killala to Killery Harbour don't know what the fuss is about.
The team will be under no extra pressure to do anything next year, as long as they do their best, the fans will back them. It's as simple as that.
So, thanks for your concern for our welfare but I'm afraid you're wasting your time. We're happy as we are and won't be changing anything any time soon.
Up until the Dublin games only a madman would say AOS wasn't Mayo's PotY. And over the course of the year it's clear he still was. DOC simply didn't change how teams played like AOS or had the monstrous impact on games AOS did. The reason DOC had so much time on the ball in the Dublin games? Dublin had shifted their defence to have two men at all times on AOS and a third man close by. I'd go as far as to say it would have been far more difficult for DOC to display his passing skills were it not for AOS clearing the space for him.
Keegan would have to be ranked higher than DOC over the season too. A reactive poll on a fan-site doesn't disprove that. I'd wager that he's young means he comes with less begrudgery and people being more willing to give him the rub too, something a player like AOS would have to contend with inside and outside his county like many big players do.
DOC deservedly got YPotY, but who was he competing with? It was either DOC or stretching deep into the championship and the All-Stars voters have never shown any interest in doing that. Likewise he didn't even come into the reckoning for Connacht YPotY nevermind YPotY at his age grade this year because Mayo went no where at U21. All-Stars, PotYs and YPotYs are all hostages to their teams' ability to reach AISFs.
Jasus Syfín you have it bad for the Rhus and their potties :o
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 11:38:30 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 05, 2015, 10:54:06 PM
Ah jaysus Syf, you deserved to be canonised. ;D
The lengths you are going to to smarten the lot of us thick Mayo hoors and ne'er a one of us showing even a biteen of gratitude for the trouble you're going to.
Maybe that's because we don't see any problems and can't understand what it is that's putting you off yer oats.
Diarmuid O'Connor?? Was he fast or slow coming or does it matter one iota? Point is; he has arrived-full stop.
He got YPOTY this year even without the 'bounce' of an ASI appearance, never mind a win like McCaffrey had. Furthermore, he was a runaway winner of the Mayo Gaa Blog poll for Player of the Year award.
Here, he was up against an assload of long-established favourites like Leroy and Zippy and the Bears and Big Bro and he still finished way ahead of the posse.
He may not measure up to your standards but he's A plus with me and I imagine every Mayo head for miles around will say the same.
Don't fret about the team either, or the manager for that matter; there's no crisis of any sort anywhere. Every Mayo fan, from Ballaghadereen to Belmullet and Killala to Killery Harbour don't know what the fuss is about.
The team will be under no extra pressure to do anything next year, as long as they do their best, the fans will back them. It's as simple as that.
So, thanks for your concern for our welfare but I'm afraid you're wasting your time. We're happy as we are and won't be changing anything any time soon.
Up until the Dublin games only a madman would say AOS wasn't Mayo's PotY. And over the course of the year it's clear he still was. DOC simply didn't change how teams played like AOS or had the monstrous impact on games AOS did. The reason DOC had so much time on the ball in the Dublin games? Dublin had shifted their defence to have two men at all times on AOS and a third man close by. I'd go as far as to say it would have been far more difficult for DOC to display his passing skills were it not for AOS clearing the space for him.
Keegan would have to be ranked higher than DOC over the season too. A reactive poll on a fan-site doesn't disprove that. I'd wager that he's young means he comes with less begrudgery and people being more willing to give him the rub too, something a player like AOS would have to contend with inside and outside his county like many big players do.
DOC deservedly got YPotY, but who was he competing with? It was either DOC or stretching deep into the championship and the All-Stars voters have never shown any interest in doing that. Likewise he didn't even come into the reckoning for Connacht YPotY nevermind YPotY at his age grade this year because Mayo went no where at U21. All-Stars, PotYs and YPotYs are all hostages to their teams' ability to reach AISFs.
The kid is a class act . Did it against the best team of the modern era (us) . If you want to transfer him ( Mayo fans) we will take him . 40 percent at least better then his brother
Quote from: INDIANA on December 06, 2015, 12:43:28 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 11:38:30 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 05, 2015, 10:54:06 PM
Ah jaysus Syf, you deserved to be canonised. ;D
The lengths you are going to to smarten the lot of us thick Mayo hoors and ne'er a one of us showing even a biteen of gratitude for the trouble you're going to.
Maybe that's because we don't see any problems and can't understand what it is that's putting you off yer oats.
Diarmuid O'Connor?? Was he fast or slow coming or does it matter one iota? Point is; he has arrived-full stop.
He got YPOTY this year even without the 'bounce' of an ASI appearance, never mind a win like McCaffrey had. Furthermore, he was a runaway winner of the Mayo Gaa Blog poll for Player of the Year award.
Here, he was up against an assload of long-established favourites like Leroy and Zippy and the Bears and Big Bro and he still finished way ahead of the posse.
He may not measure up to your standards but he's A plus with me and I imagine every Mayo head for miles around will say the same.
Don't fret about the team either, or the manager for that matter; there's no crisis of any sort anywhere. Every Mayo fan, from Ballaghadereen to Belmullet and Killala to Killery Harbour don't know what the fuss is about.
The team will be under no extra pressure to do anything next year, as long as they do their best, the fans will back them. It's as simple as that.
So, thanks for your concern for our welfare but I'm afraid you're wasting your time. We're happy as we are and won't be changing anything any time soon.
Up until the Dublin games only a madman would say AOS wasn't Mayo's PotY. And over the course of the year it's clear he still was. DOC simply didn't change how teams played like AOS or had the monstrous impact on games AOS did. The reason DOC had so much time on the ball in the Dublin games? Dublin had shifted their defence to have two men at all times on AOS and a third man close by. I'd go as far as to say it would have been far more difficult for DOC to display his passing skills were it not for AOS clearing the space for him.
Keegan would have to be ranked higher than DOC over the season too. A reactive poll on a fan-site doesn't disprove that. I'd wager that he's young means he comes with less begrudgery and people being more willing to give him the rub too, something a player like AOS would have to contend with inside and outside his county like many big players do.
DOC deservedly got YPotY, but who was he competing with? It was either DOC or stretching deep into the championship and the All-Stars voters have never shown any interest in doing that. Likewise he didn't even come into the reckoning for Connacht YPotY nevermind YPotY at his age grade this year because Mayo went no where at U21. All-Stars, PotYs and YPotYs are all hostages to their teams' ability to reach AISFs.
The kid is a class act . Did it against the best team of the modern era (us) . If you want to transfer him ( Mayo fans) we will take him . 40 percent at least better then his brother
No problem with that. COC is a truly fine player but he his lack of mobility is a drawback. Mark my words, the young fella will be the one of the all-time greats of Mayo football. Right now, he's developing grand and I don't think a single Mayo head gives a damn whether it has taken him two years or ten to develop to the stage where he is now. And now is only the beginning...
Poor oul' Syf will give himself a complete breakdown if he doesn't stop worrying about the state of Mayo football.
We're doing grand. No need for anyone to panic about the state of Mayo football. Everything is under control but there's a brand new Roscommon thread that's dying on its feet because of a total lack of interest. The buck who started it spends his time lurking on this thread and poor oul' Syf seems to be welded to this particular discussion. It's a 24/7 operation by the looks of it.
You know I think Tom Kennedy was right; them Rossies are a bit different to the rest of humanity. :D
Nah, I'm not having that man 40% better than Cillian ? No way , at this point in time Cillian is still more vital to Mayo than his younger brother . I am still of the opinion though cillian would be more effective from a CHF position .
Earlier this year Tony McEntee admitted he had "fallen out of love" with inter-county football. But it hasn't taken long for the romance to be rekindled.
When new Mayo manager Stephen Rochford picked up the phone for "a chat", the former Armagh footballer obliged without really thinking where the conversation would lead to.
But ratification as one of Rochford's selectors on Tuesday night has presented him with an opportunity that he knows he would have regretted turning down.
"I did say I would lie up, relax and do very little," said the 2002 All-Ireland winner. "But this was one of the only possible opportunities that I might have got of working with one of the top three teams in Ireland.
"I didn't do it I could have had a regret because I think I can add value to the set-up. If I didn't and this type of opportunity didn't arise again I could have been living with some regret or notion that I could have made a difference."
McEntee admits to "having admiration" for this Mayo group.
"I felt over the last three years that they were the best team in the country for any number of reasons. They are certainly a team you can be drawn to," he said.
"They play attractive football, they're an honest bunch of players. They're a team I feel I can work with. I don't think it would be a huge strain mentally to take on a team like Mayo.
"I will be overseeing the fitness and coaching of the Dublin-based Mayo players on one mid-week night and Donie Buckley will look after the home-based players and then we will both get together with the entire squad for at least two weekend sessions in Mayo and that should help to bring things on," he said.
"There were," he concluded, "a lot of reasons to say no."
Based in south Armagh, he's facing a six-hour return journey to Mayo but he has reconciled himself to that.
"It was foremost in the mind," he explained. "That is the biggest issue and the impact that could have on family life. It is something that I have reconciled in my mind to wanting to do."
For the early part of the season he will oversee midweek preparations of the Dublin-based Mayo players but, by May, he expects to be making the journey west on a more regular basis.
A medical rep with PEI, McEntee - Crossmaglen Rangers' joint-manager when they won All-Ireland club titles in 2011 and 2012 - didn't know Rochford personally before the call came.
"I didn't know the man. The initial call was just for a chat. I met him out of courtesy. I was in Galway at the time and it went from there," he said.
Rochford will have his brother Eoin overseeing logistics, while former Irish Independent GAA correspondent Liam Horan will be involved in media co-ordination
Quote from: INDIANA on December 05, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Pity Roscommon don't have anyone as good as him
To be honest DOC wouldn't make Roscommon team and to reply to your statement about us not having anyone as good as him. Ultan Harney and Murtagh both the same age are far superior players. Time will prove that. I agree with syf on this the lad has only played two good championship games it's less than a year ago he was been whipped off after 30 mins for consistently shite performances for DCU
Quote from: Shannoncider on December 06, 2015, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 05, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Pity Roscommon don't have anyone as good as him
To be honest DOC wouldn't make Roscommon team and to reply to your statement about us not having anyone as good as him. Ultan Harney and Murtagh both the same age are far superior players. Time will prove that. I agree with syf on this the lad has only played two good championship games it's less than a year ago he was been whipped off after 30 mins for consistently shite performances for DCU
No need to get into c**k measuring. We've got good players. They've got good players. Which team has the best young players will play out over the next 5-8 years as long as money doesn't warp things.
With statements like that Shannoncider ,this thread will easily run to 100 pages.Me thinks its time to close this thread as the Rossies are turning it into a complete farce
Well with all that in mind i now fear Roscommon more than Dublin or Kerry.
Quote from: Shannoncider on December 06, 2015, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 05, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Pity Roscommon don't have anyone as good as him
To be honest DOC wouldn't make Roscommon team and to reply to your statement about us not having anyone as good as him. Ultan Harney and Murtagh both the same age are far superior players. Time will prove that. I agree with syf on this the lad has only played two good championship games it's less than a year ago he was been whipped off after 30 mins for consistently shite performances for DCU
Roscommon as I've said previously are married to Sigerson and underage football. What have you actually done at senior level recently
When you break it down to brass tacks- you've done sweet f*** all.
DOC has performed very well against the best team in the country twice this year in front 82,500
The Roscommon players you quoted may have done it in winter on some shit kick a bucket pitch in front of two men and a dog in some Sigerson game but they've never done it in Croke Park in front of 80,000 with another half million on TV watching them.
When they do - you can say they are better then DOC.
Until then they aren't in my opinion
You might as well try pissing against that storm in the west last night as trying to be a realist with a large percentage of Roscommon gaa fans .They just don't do the real world . No doubt about it they have a handful of tasty forwards who might yet make the breakthrough to become good county seniors playing at the top level .
First chance they had was in this years championship and they failed miserably .
They have youth on their side though, next chance is this years venture into top flight league football.
Survive and win the Nestor cup in 2016 is real progress and a statement of intent.
Relegated and hammered out the gate in caslebar in a cf v Mayo . Well imo that will be a serious setback for confidence .
Quote from: INDIANA on December 06, 2015, 04:48:07 PM
Quote from: Shannoncider on December 06, 2015, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 05, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Pity Roscommon don't have anyone as good as him
To be honest DOC wouldn't make Roscommon team and to reply to your statement about us not having anyone as good as him. Ultan Harney and Murtagh both the same age are far superior players. Time will prove that. I agree with syf on this the lad has only played two good championship games it's less than a year ago he was been whipped off after 30 mins for consistently shite performances for DCU
Roscommon as I've said previously are married to Sigerson and underage football. What have you actually done at senior level recently
When you break it down to brass tacks- you've done sweet f*** all.
DOC has performed very well against the best team in the country twice this year in front 82,500
The Roscommon players you quoted may have done it in winter on some shit kick a bucket pitch in front of two men and a dog in some Sigerson game but they've never done it in Croke Park in front of 80,000 with another half million on TV watching them.
When they do - you can say they are better then DOC.
Until then they aren't in my opinion
Doc is a fine prospect with the potential to be a good senior for many years to come but I think It would be better to allow him develop than over hype him him like you or others are trying to do.
Doc didn't score in the first semi final against Dublin and if it wasn't for the accuracy of his brother there would be no replay. In that replay Doc scored 0-2 both scores came in the 1st half when the game came to the crunch he faded out of it.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 06, 2015, 05:13:10 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 06, 2015, 04:48:07 PM
Quote from: Shannoncider on December 06, 2015, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 05, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Pity Roscommon don't have anyone as good as him
To be honest DOC wouldn't make Roscommon team and to reply to your statement about us not having anyone as good as him. Ultan Harney and Murtagh both the same age are far superior players. Time will prove that. I agree with syf on this the lad has only played two good championship games it's less than a year ago he was been whipped off after 30 mins for consistently shite performances for DCU
Roscommon as I've said previously are married to Sigerson and underage football. What have you actually done at senior level recently
When you break it down to brass tacks- you've done sweet f*** all.
DOC has performed very well against the best team in the country twice this year in front 82,500
The Roscommon players you quoted may have done it in winter on some shit kick a bucket pitch in front of two men and a dog in some Sigerson game but they've never done it in Croke Park in front of 80,000 with another half million on TV watching them.
When they do - you can say they are better then DOC.
Until then they aren't in my opinion
Doc is a fine prospect with the potential to be a good senior for many years to come but I think It would be better to allow him develop than over hype him him like you or others are trying to do.
Doc didn't score in the first semi final against Dublin and if it wasn't for the accuracy of his brother there would be no replay. In that replay Doc scored 0-2 both scores came in the 1st half when the game came to the crunch he faded out of it.
He's a very good prospect in my view. He was Mayo's best forward over the two games i my view.
And the view on him in DCU wasn't stellar but DCU don't get everything right. Roscommon haven't delivered at senior level yet and until they do they are on thin ice.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 06, 2015, 05:23:28 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 06, 2015, 05:13:10 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 06, 2015, 04:48:07 PM
Quote from: Shannoncider on December 06, 2015, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 05, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 05, 2015, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 04, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 04, 2015, 09:36:51 PM
There will be others ;)
Nobody outside Mayo (and not too many in Mayo either would have Diarmuid O Connor emerging so soon.
If you want to call it that. I've been hearing him being hyped up to the hilt by confused Ballagh lads for years now who said he was just mighty (in training) and at minor, U21 and senior up until the two Dublin games he showed little to warrant the hype. Other players would have been thrown by the wayside long before O'Connor started to come good, he's had a lot of senior football already. He has miles to go yet if he wants to be a consistent force at senior. Durcan took to county far more gracefully.
You really dont have a fukn clue do ya
Touchy ladeen. DOC has talent but saying he's arrived after two good performances is mad. Talk about heaping pressure on a kid.
Pity Roscommon don't have anyone as good as him
To be honest DOC wouldn't make Roscommon team and to reply to your statement about us not having anyone as good as him. Ultan Harney and Murtagh both the same age are far superior players. Time will prove that. I agree with syf on this the lad has only played two good championship games it's less than a year ago he was been whipped off after 30 mins for consistently shite performances for DCU
Roscommon as I've said previously are married to Sigerson and underage football. What have you actually done at senior level recently
When you break it down to brass tacks- you've done sweet f*** all.
DOC has performed very well against the best team in the country twice this year in front 82,500
The Roscommon players you quoted may have done it in winter on some shit kick a bucket pitch in front of two men and a dog in some Sigerson game but they've never done it in Croke Park in front of 80,000 with another half million on TV watching them.
When they do - you can say they are better then DOC.
Until then they aren't in my opinion
Doc is a fine prospect with the potential to be a good senior for many years to come but I think It would be better to allow him develop than over hype him him like you or others are trying to do.
Doc didn't score in the first semi final against Dublin and if it wasn't for the accuracy of his brother there would be no replay. In that replay Doc scored 0-2 both scores came in the 1st half when the game came to the crunch he faded out of it.
He's a very good prospect in my view. He was Mayo's best forward over the two games i my view.
And the view on him in DCU wasn't stellar but DCU don't get everything right. Roscommon haven't delivered at senior level yet and until they do they are on thin ice.
Roscommon were Div 4 in 2011 will be Div one in 2016 I don't think without the success at underage and Sigerson they would have rose to that level at senior level.
DCU not alone no side can get everything right and DOC didn't stand out for DCU in fact in the 4 Sigerson cup games against UUJ,UCD,St Mary's,UCC he failed to score in any of them. Less hype and let DOC develop into the player that he has the potential to be.
the difference is Cillian Scores and score lots from play and from Frees . If he played for portlaoise they would be leinster champions today
Scores win games and nothing else does
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2015, 04:08:36 PM
the difference is Cillian Scores and score lots from play and from Frees . If he played for portlaoise they would be leinster champions today
Scores win games and nothing else does
Cormac Reilly.....
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2015, 04:08:36 PM
the difference is Cillian Scores and score lots from play and from Frees . If he played for portlaoise they would be leinster champions today
Scores win games and nothing else does
He doesn't score lots from play. He scores lots from placed balls, which isn't the same thing at all. This year, he scored 2-5 from play, over 5 games. That is an average of 2.1 points per game. That's not exactly setting the word on fire, from open play.
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He's always unfit if you're being honest. Lad will do well to make it to 30 playing IC at this rate.
Quote from: Syferus on December 07, 2015, 10:15:40 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He's always unfit if you're being honest. Lad will do well to make it to 30 playing IC at this rate.
Gawd help ye if he is ever fit then before he's 30. Andy is over 30 and still hasn't lost to Roscommon .
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
When he's fit is the important part. There can be no doubt that he is a class act but unless he takes the time to recuperate properly this coming year, Syf could well be right about him being crocked before he's 30 and that would be a great loss to himself and to Mayo football in that order.
It's obvious that the team plays better when he is on and it's plain that he is one of the eam leaders that others look to when the going gets tough and that is the measure of his importance to the team. We need both O'Connors (and both Bears as well) in tip top shape ti have an chance of going the whole way next year.
Quote from: larryin89 on December 07, 2015, 10:24:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 07, 2015, 10:15:40 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He's always unfit if you're being honest. Lad will do well to make it to 30 playing IC at this rate.
Gawd help ye if he is ever fit then before he's 30. Andy is over 30 and still hasn't lost to Roscommon .
It shows how talented he is that he has been vital even when obviously limited by injuries. But the mad days of underage and colleges and multiple teams are over so the demands now should be more manageable. He ll be fine.
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 11:15:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 07, 2015, 10:24:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 07, 2015, 10:15:40 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He's always unfit if you're being honest. Lad will do well to make it to 30 playing IC at this rate.
Gawd help ye if he is ever fit then before he's 30. Andy is over 30 and still hasn't lost to Roscommon .
It shows how talented he is that he has been vital even when obviously limited by injuries. But the mad days of underage and colleges and multiple teams are over so the demands now should be more manageable. He ll be fine.
His shoulder is wrecked Moy. Same boat as JOD.
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He's not quick enough and doesn't do much damage from play on quality defenders. He's a very good player but he's short on being top class.
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He only scored 0-7 from play in 2014. That's an even worse per game return, than this year.
If he was able to bang in a few of those sucker punch, killer goals in All Ireland finals and semi finals, that other forwards do, he'd be the deadliest forward in the country. But until he does.....
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2015, 11:48:45 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He's not quick enough and doesn't do much damage from play on quality defenders. He's a very good player but he's short on being top class.
He's not the quickest but neither was your friend Jimmy Keaveney or Kenny Dalglish and they were pretty good. There are other ingredients as well.
A fit COC would be one of the least of our troubles tbh.
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He only scored 0-7 from play in 2014. That's an even worse per game return, than this year.
If he was able to bang in a few of those sucker punch, killer goals in All Ireland finals and semi finals, that other forwards do, he'd be the deadliest forward in the country. But until he does.....
When he does get a sniff he is as clinical a finisher as there is about.
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 11:15:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 07, 2015, 10:24:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 07, 2015, 10:15:40 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He's always unfit if you're being honest. Lad will do well to make it to 30 playing IC at this rate.
Gawd help ye if he is ever fit then before he's 30. Andy is over 30 and still hasn't lost to Roscommon .
It shows how talented he is that he has been vital even when obviously limited by injuries. But the mad days of underage and colleges and multiple teams are over so the demands now should be more manageable. He ll be fine.
Could count on one hand the amount of U21 county games C O Connor played and his college side UUJ were knocked out in the first round. OTT training with the senior panel as a 19 year old could be the root cause for all of his injuries now.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 08, 2015, 12:25:43 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 11:15:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 07, 2015, 10:24:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 07, 2015, 10:15:40 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He's always unfit if you're being honest. Lad will do well to make it to 30 playing IC at this rate.
Gawd help ye if he is ever fit then before he's 30. Andy is over 30 and still hasn't lost to Roscommon .
It shows how talented he is that he has been vital even when obviously limited by injuries. But the mad days of underage and colleges and multiple teams are over so the demands now should be more manageable. He ll be fine.
Could count on one hand the amount of U21 county games C O Connor played and his college side UUJ were knocked out in the first round. OTT training with the senior panel as a 19 year old could be the root cause for all of his injuries now.
Or playing an entire IC championship with a season-ending shoulder injury that needed immediate surgery and rehab. Horan ran him into the ground to lose another AI final.
Quote from: moysider on December 08, 2015, 12:17:58 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He only scored 0-7 from play in 2014. That's an even worse per game return, than this year.
If he was able to bang in a few of those sucker punch, killer goals in All Ireland finals and semi finals, that other forwards do, he'd be the deadliest forward in the country. But until he does.....
When he does get a sniff he is as clinical a finisher as there is about.
Not in All Ireland finals and semi finals he isn't. Not compared to earlier rounds of the champo, when the quality of the opposition is weaker. How many big goals has Kevin McMena-how the heck do you spell his name? - scored in a fraction of the game time and a fraction of the sniffs?
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 12:35:36 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 08, 2015, 12:17:58 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 09:51:57 PM
He does score a lot from play - when he's right.
He had surgery at the end of the year. Was patently unfit all year and that was on the back of the should trouble before that. What is surprising is that he's managed to play as well as he has and contribute as much as he has under the circumstances. Very good forward with lots of strings to his bow. Very good in a playmaker role as well.
He only scored 0-7 from play in 2014. That's an even worse per game return, than this year.
If he was able to bang in a few of those sucker punch, killer goals in All Ireland finals and semi finals, that other forwards do, he'd be the deadliest forward in the country. But until he does.....
When he does get a sniff he is as clinical a finisher as there is about.
Not in All Ireland finals and semi finals he isn't.
2-15 against you lot this year and 3-13 against Kerry last year is pretty shabby really. Remember he turned 23 this year. Probably over the hill now. I believe he is out for months with yet another operation (knee?). We'll hardly need him.
No one is disputing his over all scoring stats. They are what they are. Heavily padded by scores from placed balls.
Bringing up two two games series, both of which Mayo lost, is hardly helping the argument that he doesn't needs to do more from open play, if Mayo are to ever win Sam. ::)
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 12:53:42 AM
No one is disputing his over all scoring stats. They are what they are. Heavily padded by scores from placed balls.
Bringing up two two games series, both of which Mayo lost, is hardly helping the argument that he doesn't needs to do more from open play, if Mayo are to ever win Sam. ::)
Em......you brought up semi finals. You said he wasn't a clinical finisher in semi-finals.
5-28 in 2 semi-finals is pretty poor I'll give you that.
You can quote his over all stats all you want. Separate his scores from play and tell me what they are, if you divide them up, per game. Will it make for such impressive reading? I doubt it.
No one is saying he is useless. That seems to be the automatic knee jerk reaction whenever anyone questions his contributions from play. Lord knows why. He is far from useless. He'd walk onto any team in the country, for his prowess from placed balls alone. If Kerry and Dublin have Bryan Sheehan and Dean Rock primarily for their free taking duties, O'Connors value to Mayo is incalculable.
But that doesn't mean they will win the AI, with him as their primary scorer. Kerry, Dublin and Donegal have other forwards who can bang in the big goals, in the big games, when they are needed most. Do Mayo? If the Mayo defense didn't leak bad goals, at the worst possible times, maybe they wouldn't need such increased productivity. But until they fix their habit of doing that, they will.
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 01:22:12 AM
You can quote his over all stats all you want. Separate his scores from play and tell me what they are, if you divide them up, per game. Will it make for such impressive reading? I doubt it.
No one is saying he is useless. That seems to be the automatic knee jerk reaction whenever anyone questions his contributions from play. Lord knows why. He is far from useless. He'd walk onto any team in the county, for his prowess from placed balls alone. If Kerry and Dublin have Bryan Sheehan and Dean Rock primarily for their free taking duties, O'Connors value to Mayo is incalculable.
But that doesn't mean they will win the AI, with him as their primary scorer. Kerry, Dublin and Donegal have other forwards who can bang in the big goals, in the big games, when they are needed most. Do Mayo? If the Mayo defense didn't leak bad goals, at the worst possible times, maybe they wouldn't need such increased productivity. But until they fix their habit of doing that, they will.
Not according to the Rossies. They reckon they have at least 6 better forwards.
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 01:22:12 AM
You can quote his over all stats all you want. Separate his scores from play and tell me what they are, if you divide them up, per game. Will it make for such impressive reading? I doubt it.
No one is saying he is useless. That seems to be the automatic knee jerk reaction whenever anyone questions his contributions from play. Lord knows why. He is far from useless. He'd walk onto any team in the county, for his prowess from placed balls alone. If Kerry and Dublin have Bryan Sheehan and Dean Rock primarily for their free taking duties, O'Connors value to Mayo is incalculable.
But that doesn't mean they will win the AI, with him as their primary scorer. Kerry, Dublin and Donegal have other forwards who can bang in the big goals, in the big games, when they are needed most. Do Mayo? If the Mayo defense didn't leak bad goals, at the worst possible times, maybe they wouldn't need such increased productivity. But until they fix their habit of doing that, they will.
+1
Of course he is far from useless; the fact that others look to him for inspiration is proof enough of that. It may be just me but the rest of the team seem to play better with him on rather than off the field. They look up to him. I guess he would score a lot more from play if he wasn't carrying persistent injuries but that means sweet FA when the scoreline at the end is the only thing that matters.
Mayo could certainly do with natural scoring forwards such as Bernard Brogan or indeed most of the Dub attack. There is no point in self-delusion; Mayo badly need more punch up front and unless COC comes back injury-free and gets stuck in more, we'll be looking to newcomers like DOC, Regan (Adam Gallagher?) to up the scoring rate. That's a big ask.
THere is no point in denying the obvious; in the 2012 final , Mayo returned 0-13 with the majority of scores from frees-Varley 0-2 and O'Connor 0-5. Of the others, Keegan got 0-1 so the forwards from play and that includes two subs managed only 0-5 between them.
The following year, apart from Andy with 1-2, the only forward to score from play was Andy with 1-2. COC scored 0-8, all from frees and the total from play was 1-5 from a total of 1-14.
With stats like those, you can't realistically hope to win AIs.
Looking ahead, unless Cillian somehow ups his contribution from play, we're going nowhere serious and shag another bloody CF, we've got 45 and counting.
Quote from: muppet on December 08, 2015, 09:27:59 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 01:22:12 AM
You can quote his over all stats all you want. Separate his scores from play and tell me what they are, if you divide them up, per game. Will it make for such impressive reading? I doubt it.
No one is saying he is useless. That seems to be the automatic knee jerk reaction whenever anyone questions his contributions from play. Lord knows why. He is far from useless. He'd walk onto any team in the county, for his prowess from placed balls alone. If Kerry and Dublin have Bryan Sheehan and Dean Rock primarily for their free taking duties, O'Connors value to Mayo is incalculable.
But that doesn't mean they will win the AI, with him as their primary scorer. Kerry, Dublin and Donegal have other forwards who can bang in the big goals, in the big games, when they are needed most. Do Mayo? If the Mayo defense didn't leak bad goals, at the worst possible times, maybe they wouldn't need such increased productivity. But until they fix their habit of doing that, they will.
Not according to the Rossies. They reckon they have at least 6 better forwards.
Sure even the bus driver would get his game before any of our poor, useless amadáns. ;D
I really don't know why people try and separate score from frees and scores from play . they both count exactly the same and Many games have been lost for the want of a free taker and Cillian is probably the best around . He has fair distance two good feet and most of all he is Reliable , would make any team in the country as a free taker
I'm impressed by Rochford so far.
Dublin in their post AI hangover year next year, Kerry likely to lose a few old timers.
If he can eek out a few percentage points here or there, Mayo could do it.
Quote from: rosnarun on December 08, 2015, 10:28:41 AM
I really don't know why people try and separate score from frees and scores from play . they both count exactly the same and Many games have been lost for the want of a free taker and Cillian is probably the best around . He has fair distance two good feet and most of all he is Reliable , would make any team in the country as a free taker
Because in championship football the scoring rate for attempts from play is around the 45% mark whereas from frees it is around the 70% mark or to put it another way scoring from a free is 50% easier than scoring from play. [This is based on Don't Foul's excellent work]
Quote from: twohands!!! on December 08, 2015, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 08, 2015, 10:28:41 AM
I really don't know why people try and separate score from frees and scores from play . they both count exactly the same and Many games have been lost for the want of a free taker and Cillian is probably the best around . He has fair distance two good feet and most of all he is Reliable , would make any team in the country as a free taker
Because in championship football the scoring rate for attempts from play is around the 45% mark whereas from frees it is around the 70% mark or to put it another way scoring from a free is 50% easier than scoring from play. [This is based on Don't Foul's excellent work]
That doesn't necessarily follow.
For example. the 70% stat is for free-takers. Those dedicated individuals who practise for hours taking frees, over and over again doing the same routine to perfect their art. I would expect a high percentage as they are usually the most accurate kickers on the team. It doesn't mean it is 'easy'.
The 45% includes all forwards, midfielders and some defenders, all who will have a go over a season. Some practise point taking religiously (e.g. BB, Gooch etc), some practise a more rounded game (e.g. Donncha Walsh) and who will have lower stats shooting, and some will be midfielders and defenders who won't focus on shooting much and will have lower stats again.
But you can't deduce that the scores by the former are easier than those of the latter. If the most accurate kickers on the team were the only ones to shoots then this stat would be much higher and equally if every player had to take a free themselves when fouled, the first stat would drop alarmingly.
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 08, 2015, 09:27:59 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 01:22:12 AM
You can quote his over all stats all you want. Separate his scores from play and tell me what they are, if you divide them up, per game. Will it make for such impressive reading? I doubt it.
No one is saying he is useless. That seems to be the automatic knee jerk reaction whenever anyone questions his contributions from play. Lord knows why. He is far from useless. He'd walk onto any team in the county, for his prowess from placed balls alone. If Kerry and Dublin have Bryan Sheehan and Dean Rock primarily for their free taking duties, O'Connors value to Mayo is incalculable.
But that doesn't mean they will win the AI, with him as their primary scorer. Kerry, Dublin and Donegal have other forwards who can bang in the big goals, in the big games, when they are needed most. Do Mayo? If the Mayo defense didn't leak bad goals, at the worst possible times, maybe they wouldn't need such increased productivity. But until they fix their habit of doing that, they will.
Not according to the Rossies. They reckon they have at least 6 better forwards.
Sure even the bus driver would get his game before any of our poor, useless amadáns. ;D
In fairness the bus driver has plenty of time to train, he is usually free from July until February! ! ;D
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on December 08, 2015, 09:26:11 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 08, 2015, 09:27:59 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 08, 2015, 01:22:12 AM
You can quote his over all stats all you want. Separate his scores from play and tell me what they are, if you divide them up, per game. Will it make for such impressive reading? I doubt it.
No one is saying he is useless. That seems to be the automatic knee jerk reaction whenever anyone questions his contributions from play. Lord knows why. He is far from useless. He'd walk onto any team in the county, for his prowess from placed balls alone. If Kerry and Dublin have Bryan Sheehan and Dean Rock primarily for their free taking duties, O'Connors value to Mayo is incalculable.
But that doesn't mean they will win the AI, with him as their primary scorer. Kerry, Dublin and Donegal have other forwards who can bang in the big goals, in the big games, when they are needed most. Do Mayo? If the Mayo defense didn't leak bad goals, at the worst possible times, maybe they wouldn't need such increased productivity. But until they fix their habit of doing that, they will.
Not according to the Rossies. They reckon they have at least 6 better forwards.
Sure even the bus driver would get his game before any of our poor, useless amadáns. ;D
In fairness the bus driver has plenty of time to train, he is usually free from July until February! ! ;D
+1
Ah feck it! Why can't I think of ones like that. ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.
Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.
Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.
Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.
Quote from: seafoid on December 09, 2015, 12:45:49 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.
Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.
Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.
Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?
What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty from Kerry.
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 09, 2015, 12:45:49 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.
Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.
Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.
Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?
What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty from Kerry.
I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field. That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.
(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 09, 2015, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 09, 2015, 12:45:49 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.
Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.
Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.
Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?
What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty from Kerry.
I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field. That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.
(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)
Same as Regan. Mr. Horan alienated him. Gallagher is a better footballer than DOC from what I've seen.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 09, 2015, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 09, 2015, 12:45:49 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.
Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.
Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.
Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?
What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty from Kerry.
I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field. That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.
(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)
Not sure what point you re making Lar. Are you saying Conoreen was a passenger on Mayo teams for 10 years to kick frees?
Here are Mayo's six forwards from Mayo's last game before Horan era.
Andy Moran (0-2, one a '45'), Aidan O'Shea, Alan Freeman (0-5, one free); Conor Mortimer (0-2, one free), Barry Moran (0-1), Alan Dillon (0-3). Ronaldson was a sub. All except Conoreen were still involved this year.
Were passengers the problem?
Seafóid said
'Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me'.
You agree with him so I was wondering who the passengers were/are? Conoreen? Seafóid said at least one so you agree there were always more than one?
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 10:03:07 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 09, 2015, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 09, 2015, 12:45:49 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.
Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.
Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.
Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?
What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty from Kerry.
I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field. That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.
(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)
Not sure what point you re making Lar. Are you saying Conoreen was a passenger on Mayo teams for 10 years to kick frees?
Here are Mayo's six forwards from Mayo's last game before Horan era.
Andy Moran (0-2, one a '45'), Aidan O'Shea, Alan Freeman (0-5, one free); Conor Mortimer (0-2, one free), Barry Moran (0-1), Alan Dillon (0-3). Ronaldson was a sub. All except Conoreen were still involved this year.
Were passengers the problem?
Seafóid said 'Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me'.
You agree with him so I was wondering who the passengers were/are? Conoreen? Seafóid said at least one so you agree there were always more than one?
I did say that the Mayo attack down the years were never noted for free-scoring forwards and it just strikes me now that that is an ambiguous statement. I was not talking of scores from placed balls. I meant forwards like Padraig Joyce or Kevin O'Neill could pop the ball over from 40 yards out where other forwards first inclination would be to look around for someone to lay the ball off to. Lack of self-confidence I suppose. Those pair were far more likely to get a goal or two in the course of a game than anyone around them.Matter of fact, James Horan could be added to that pair as a natural score-getter; he was always capable of taking a half-chance from up to 40 yards out and slotting it over; he didn't have to handpass it in to the edge of the square, like so many of his colleagues.
Connoreen could never be accused of lack of heart and that's for sure but he jibbed at the idea of having to track back and harass and harry like everyone around him.
Horan's work ethic didn't appeal to him.
IIRC, the game you take as an example was the qualifier against Longford where Mayo still managed to come second. I think Longford were a Div 4 side at the time.
Why not take the results of the AI finals in successive years and see how Mayo's forwards ability to score from play stacks up against top class opposition. We've had endless arguments with Sidney and Indiana and loads of others about the relative worth of the Dubs forwards and Mayo's. The question (more or less) was that if each of the forwards was a free agent, would the other side have him on their side?
The overall view was pretty much that every Dub would get a place in the Mayo attack, while Cillian was the only one of ours who might take a spot from any of the Dubs.
The forwards scoring returns that day were far more representative of Mayo's attacking potential than the mickey mouse game against Longford.
The mickey mouse match in Longford was championship Lar!
I was not using this as an example of how good our forwards were either. Just that all but remained after that disaster and all but one were still there this year.
I m just wondering do you consider some of them to have been passengers?
You say 'Why not take the results of the AI finals in successive years and see how Mayo's forwards ability to score from play stacks up against top class opposition'.
I dunno why you bring this up but seeing as you have are you suggesting that there were passengers there that should not have been selected?
Care to name them if that is the case?
I would suspect that 4 of our provincial neighbours and probably 20+ of countries nationwide think they have better forwards than we do. They base this assessment on watching their forwards play between February and early July. Their heroes never meet the proper tests of the bigger teams when things are getting serious in mid- August, let alone an AI final.
My own view of our failings in AI finals would differ from yours considerably. I would argue that our tactical nous was more instrumental that having fellas that could wallop ball over from 40- 50 metres. As if they d be let do that. I don t remember us giving Diarmuid Connolly the space to kick his mighty points that he does so freely during the earlier championship games. In the last 4 in recent the difference between winning and losing is far more complex than the tired old cliché of scoring forwards thrown out by likes of Spillane and McGee.
Lee Keegan has more scores from play in All Ireland Finals & Semi Finals than COC, from memory that's 9 games each.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 10, 2015, 08:59:28 PM
Lee Keegan has more scores from play in All Ireland Finals & Semi Finals than COC, from memory that's 9 games each.
Exactly. And Keegan has shanked a few great chances as well. I assume though that you are not using that stat as a stick to beat O Connor with!
The way things develop in those games the chances don t necessarily fall to the inside men. They are swamped by swarm defences that likes of Tyrone, Kerry, Dublin and Donegal put up and marauding half backs and even full backs get the best chances to clip a score if they are good enough. McCafferty, McGlynn, Higgins, Tomás.
A criticism of Keegan is that he isn t clinical enough actually and Donal Vaughan gets in great positions as well but is a bit gun shy.
Philly McMahon's return of scores in big games this year makes the point. But not likely he will be played in the forwards any time soon.
It is only in the early and middle stages of the championship that the 'marquee' forwards get the space to express themselves. After that it is serious rationing for the most part. A top forward will be lucky to get a few opportunities to make it count and if a team is not going well as a whole might not get any opportunity.
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 10:03:07 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 09, 2015, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 09, 2015, 12:45:49 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.
Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.
Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.
Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?
What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty from Kerry.
I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field. That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.
(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)
Not sure what point you re making Lar. Are you saying Conoreen was a passenger on Mayo teams for 10 years to kick frees?
Here are Mayo's six forwards from Mayo's last game before Horan era.
Andy Moran (0-2, one a '45'), Aidan O'Shea, Alan Freeman (0-5, one free); Conor Mortimer (0-2, one free), Barry Moran (0-1), Alan Dillon (0-3). Ronaldson was a sub. All except Conoreen were still involved this year.
Were passengers the problem?
Seafóid said 'Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me'.
You agree with him so I was wondering who the passengers were/are? Conoreen? Seafóid said at least one so you agree there were always more than one?
Here's a shtab at it
2012 Enda Varley
2004 Maloney
1997 Sheridan
Someone who can't shout "give me the Fn ball in the last 5 minutes" which is all Mayo need to get over the line ....
I hope 2016 is the year.
Quote from: seafoid on December 11, 2015, 12:07:49 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 10:03:07 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 09, 2015, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 09, 2015, 12:45:49 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 09, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on December 08, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?
Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.
When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .
I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.
COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.
Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.
Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.
Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?
What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty from Kerry.
I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field. That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.
(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)
Not sure what point you re making Lar. Are you saying Conoreen was a passenger on Mayo teams for 10 years to kick frees?
Here are Mayo's six forwards from Mayo's last game before Horan era.
Andy Moran (0-2, one a '45'), Aidan O'Shea, Alan Freeman (0-5, one free); Conor Mortimer (0-2, one free), Barry Moran (0-1), Alan Dillon (0-3). Ronaldson was a sub. All except Conoreen were still involved this year.
Were passengers the problem?
Seafóid said 'Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me'.
You agree with him so I was wondering who the passengers were/are? Conoreen? Seafóid said at least one so you agree there were always more than one?
Here's a shtab at it
2012 Enda Varley
2004 Maloney
1997 Sheridan
Someone who can't shout "give me the Fn ball in the last 5 minutes" which is all Mayo need to get over the line ....
I hope 2016 is the year.
You couldn't pay enough for some of this tripe.
1997 SheridanWere you at the game or have you ever watched it.
1997 final discussions usually centre on Holmes v Fitzgerald with the great unknown question of what Kenny Mort would have done on Fitzy. However the greater conundrum is what would have happened if Sheridan (your passenger) hadnt got injured leaving the freetaking duties to Ciaran Mac. The final gap was 3 pts. House of Pain might have gone into receivership that year if the "passenger" was driving the frees as usual.
Quote from: moysider on December 10, 2015, 06:46:19 PM
The mickey mouse match in Longford was championship Lar!
I was not using this as an example of how good our forwards were either. Just that all but remained after that disaster and all but one were still there this year.
I m just wondering do you consider some of them to have been passengers?
You say 'Why not take the results of the AI finals in successive years and see how Mayo's forwards ability to score from play stacks up against top class opposition'.
I dunno why you bring this up but seeing as you have are you suggesting that there were passengers there that should not have been selected?
Care to name them if that is the case?
I would suspect that 4 of our provincial neighbours and probably 20+ of countries nationwide think they have better forwards than we do. They base this assessment on watching their forwards play between February and early July. Their heroes never meet the proper tests of the bigger teams when things are getting serious in mid- August, let alone an AI final.
My own view of our failings in AI finals would differ from yours considerably. I would argue that our tactical nous was more instrumental that having fellas that could wallop ball over from 40- 50 metres. As if they d be let do that. I don t remember us giving Diarmuid Connolly the space to kick his mighty points that he does so freely during the earlier championship games. In the last 4 in recent the difference between winning and losing is far more complex than the tired old cliché of scoring forwards thrown out by likes of Spillane and McGee.
I'm teetotally lost here.
Of course the game in Longford was a championship one but it was against a Div 4 side and yet we managed to lose it. Of all the most unrepresentative games I have had the misfortune to watch, this one and the previous one against Sligo were the two that rocked me the most .We're in the business if winning AIs and anything less is a failure. Now, if you feel that the spread of scores that day means a) that there was no passenger forward on that team and b) that with that attack we could win an AI. There is no logical alternative to either or both.
You dunno why I bring up the subject of the Mayo forwards failings in not one but two AI finals! Where the hell else is more important? Is the gutless display against a Div 4 side a better measure of the quality of Mayo's attack than the results of not one but two AI finals? Cora Staunton would have shot the lights out in Longford that awful day.
Take the selected line ups (forwards) in the 2013: On the Mayo side, you Kevin McLoughlin, Keith Higgins , Alan Dillon; Cillian O'Connor Alan Freeman, Andy Moran.
How many would get a place in the Dub attack if this were possible?
On the day in question, I'd say none of them.
Now take P Flynn, P Andrews, D Connolly; P Mannion, C Kilkenny, B Brogan.
If any one of them was up for grabs would he get a place in Mayo's starting front six?
I'd say every one of them would.
Recall the game against Donegal in '12?
Why did Donegal not bother to contest Mayo kick outs in the second half? I say it was because they knew they could contain the Mayo forwards without a bother. Whadya think?
No matter what you or I think, the Donegal defence wasn't seriously bothered by the Mayo attack throughout that second half. Would the forwards we put out against Longford in '10 have won that game for us?
I'm a bit lost re Diarmuid Connolly. It wasn't the bleddy forwards that put the spancil on him, was it? Keegan could have shanked an assload of attempts from straight in front of goal for the purposes of this discussion and Maroon Manc's argument still stands. He sez "Lee Keegan has more scores from play in All Ireland Finals & Semi Finals than COC, from memory that's 9 games each."
Do you agree with him or not; is that true or false? You don't seriously expect me to name players who were doing their best but were not on top of their men. do you? I don't blame any man for lack of effort, merely lack of scores from play.
Yup; no problem in agreeing that a lack of tactical nous was a big, big factor in us coming up short in both finals but when it's done and dusted, it's scores on the board that counts and if your forwards, for whatever reason, don't/can't deliver, the outcome is not going to be a positive one. Simple as...
Quote from: moysider on December 10, 2015, 11:32:03 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 10, 2015, 08:59:28 PM
Lee Keegan has more scores from play in All Ireland Finals & Semi Finals than COC, from memory that's 9 games each.
Exactly. And Keegan has shanked a few great chances as well. I assume though that you are not using that stat as a stick to beat O Connor with!
The way things develop in those games the chances don t necessarily fall to the inside men. They are swamped by swarm defences that likes of Tyrone, Kerry, Dublin and Donegal put up and marauding half backs and even full backs get the best chances to clip a score if they are good enough. McCafferty, McGlynn, Higgins, Tomás.
A criticism of Keegan is that he isn t clinical enough actually and Donal Vaughan gets in great positions as well but is a bit gun shy.
Philly McMahon's return of scores in big games this year makes the point. But not likely he will be played in the forwards any time soon.
It is only in the early and middle stages of the championship that the 'marquee' forwards get the space to express themselves. After that it is serious rationing for the most part. A top forward will be lucky to get a few opportunities to make it count and if a team is not going well as a whole might not get any opportunity.
Obviously not ;) Space may well be at a premium and in terrible conditions JOD managed to score 3 points from play in the final.
I've been at 5 of those 9 games so I haven't paid too much attention to COC. I did think he was poor in front of the posts the first day against Dublin though, he missed a couple of easy chances and on other times wasn't able to engineer any space for himself when he was one on one with his marker. Take out the two Kerry games in 2014 and he has 2 points from play in 7 games, thats very poor for a player of his quality although he's scored goals in that period too.
I'm not criticising him, he's a very good player and still has age on his side to improve although his injuries may play a part in his development. I just think there's probably around 7 or 8 forwards I'd pick ahead of him.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 10, 2015, 08:59:28 PM
Lee Keegan has more scores from play in All Ireland Finals & Semi Finals than COC, from memory that's 9 games each.
Bernard Brogan points from play in All-Ireland Finals were:
2011 2
2013 2
2015 1
That is what happens sometimes when you take a static and ignore context.
In summary without reading the previous 50 pages - is COC top class and not just a free taker?
Quote from: heffo on December 11, 2015, 04:23:40 PM
In summary without reading the previous 50 pages - is COC top class and not just a free taker?
Ok lets put this to bed.
He is not top class.
He is not a Marquee forward.
He gets most of his scores from frees.
He is always carrying an injury.
Who cares? Some better and and a lot worse players have won more AI medals.
I don't care if he is good enough to get on this that or the other teams. He's from Mayo and he's good enough to get on the Mayo team. That's all that matters.
Probably the sh1te he is getting here has to do with him nearly taking out a Dublin players eye which needed 37 stitches :P in the AI semifinal.
If you want to talk about an forward who offers nothing in the scoring stakes and has a AI medal and a All star then pick on Donnacha Walsh. But it's easier to pick on the lad without an AI medal isn't it?
I can't believe how anyone can doubt the value of Cillian O' Connor to the Mayo team. How many times has he won games for Mayo? How many times has he dug them out of a hole and rescued them? I've always seen him as a player who displays a maturity beyond his years. Anyone doubting his value and ability should ask themselves, what sort of a team Mayo would have without him?
Quote from: Shrewdness on December 11, 2015, 07:32:07 PM
I can't believe how anyone can doubt the value of Cillian O' Connor to the Mayo team. How many times has he won games for Mayo? How many times has he dug them out of a hole and rescued them? I've always seen him as a player who displays a maturity beyond his years. Anyone doubting his value and ability should ask themselves, what sort of a team Mayo would have without him?
Like I keep saying, the rest of the team look up to him and play better when he's on the field and that in itself makes him worth his place even if he did sweet damn all else.
Oh aye and just to add to all that , Cillian picks up the golden boot award for the third year on the trot but sure he wouldn't get a shniff of the Roscommon team .
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2015, 04:19:46 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 10, 2015, 08:59:28 PM
Lee Keegan has more scores from play in All Ireland Finals & Semi Finals than COC, from memory that's 9 games each.
Bernard Brogan points from play in All-Ireland Finals were:
2011 2
2013 2
2015 1
That is what happens sometimes when you take a static and ignore context.
He scored two goals in the 2013 final. That's what happens when you take half a statistic and try and pass it off as fact.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 11, 2015, 09:12:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2015, 04:19:46 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 10, 2015, 08:59:28 PM
Lee Keegan has more scores from play in All Ireland Finals & Semi Finals than COC, from memory that's 9 games each.
Bernard Brogan points from play in All-Ireland Finals were:
2011 2
2013 2
2015 1
That is what happens sometimes when you take a static and ignore context.
He scored two goals in the 2013 final. That's what happens when you take half a statistic and try and pass it off as fact.
I know.
Read it again, carefully. You made my point for me.
larryin89, why do you have to bring Roscommon into every thread? It's getting tiresome at this stage 8)
Lol, you're some man to make that comment shrewdness. On page 67 of this thread things turned to Cillian , first man in was a rossie who said Cillian wouldn't make the Roscommon team , hence my comment,I couldn't give two hoots in reality about Roscommon , they are of no concern to me as of yet because they are no threat imo for the foreseeable.
50% of this thread is just Larryin trying to troll Mayo, Roscommon posters and anyone else that wanders by with one of his many accounts. Branched out into 'Dublin' and 'Sligo' posters I see.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 11, 2015, 01:29:00 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 10, 2015, 06:46:19 PM
The mickey mouse match in Longford was championship Lar!
I was not using this as an example of how good our forwards were either. Just that all but remained after that disaster and all but one were still there this year.
I m just wondering do you consider some of them to have been passengers?
You say 'Why not take the results of the AI finals in successive years and see how Mayo's forwards ability to score from play stacks up against top class opposition'.
I dunno why you bring this up but seeing as you have are you suggesting that there were passengers there that should not have been selected?
Care to name them if that is the case?
I would suspect that 4 of our provincial neighbours and probably 20+ of countries nationwide think they have better forwards than we do. They base this assessment on watching their forwards play between February and early July. Their heroes never meet the proper tests of the bigger teams when things are getting serious in mid- August, let alone an AI final.
My own view of our failings in AI finals would differ from yours considerably. I would argue that our tactical nous was more instrumental that having fellas that could wallop ball over from 40- 50 metres. As if they d be let do that. I don t remember us giving Diarmuid Connolly the space to kick his mighty points that he does so freely during the earlier championship games. In the last 4 in recent the difference between winning and losing is far more complex than the tired old cliché of scoring forwards thrown out by likes of Spillane and McGee.
I'm teetotally lost here.
Of course the game in Longford was a championship one but it was against a Div 4 side and yet we managed to lose it. Of all the most unrepresentative games I have had the misfortune to watch, this one and the previous one against Sligo were the two that rocked me the most .We're in the business if winning AIs and anything less is a failure. Now, if you feel that the spread of scores that day means a) that there was no passenger forward on that team and b) that with that attack we could win an AI. There is no logical alternative to either or both.
You dunno why I bring up the subject of the Mayo forwards failings in not one but two AI finals! Where the hell else is more important? Is the gutless display against a Div 4 side a better measure of the quality of Mayo's attack than the results of not one but two AI finals? Cora Staunton would have shot the lights out in Longford that awful day.
Take the selected line ups (forwards) in the 2013: On the Mayo side, you Kevin McLoughlin, Keith Higgins , Alan Dillon; Cillian O'Connor Alan Freeman, Andy Moran.
How many would get a place in the Dub attack if this were possible?
On the day in question, I'd say none of them.
Now take P Flynn, P Andrews, D Connolly; P Mannion, C Kilkenny, B Brogan.
If any one of them was up for grabs would he get a place in Mayo's starting front six?
I'd say every one of them would.
Recall the game against Donegal in '12?
Why did Donegal not bother to contest Mayo kick outs in the second half? I say it was because they knew they could contain the Mayo forwards without a bother. Whadya think?
No matter what you or I think, the Donegal defence wasn't seriously bothered by the Mayo attack throughout that second half. Would the forwards we put out against Longford in '10 have won that game for us?
I'm a bit lost re Diarmuid Connolly. It wasn't the bleddy forwards that put the spancil on him, was it? Keegan could have shanked an assload of attempts from straight in front of goal for the purposes of this discussion and Maroon Manc's argument still stands. He sez "Lee Keegan has more scores from play in All Ireland Finals & Semi Finals than COC, from memory that's 9 games each."
Do you agree with him or not; is that true or false? You don't seriously expect me to name players who were doing their best but were not on top of their men. do you? I don't blame any man for lack of effort, merely lack of scores from play.
Yup; no problem in agreeing that a lack of tactical nous was a big, big factor in us coming up short in both finals but when it's done and dusted, it's scores on the board that counts and if your forwards, for whatever reason, don't/can't deliver, the outcome is not going to be a positive one. Simple as...
A few things Lar.
I accept that my point about that Longford may have been a bit opaque but the scores after players' names was incidental and not meant to show how great the forwards were. I just copied and pasted a source and the scores were included. What I was trying to say was that the players on that team in a nadir for Mayo football have had fine careers. Like maybe there is more to it than just the playing personnel?
Donegal Lar, habitually conceded opposition kick-outs. It meant they had loads of men behind the ball early and had nothing to do with not being bothered by Mayo forward. On the contrary. They made sure they wouldn 't be troubled by getting most of the team back in their own 45. Remember the Dublin players you admire so much only managed 0-8 against that system in 2011 AISF.
My point about Connolly is that even the best forwards can be contained if planning is right and if defenders are good enough/disciplined enough to stick to a plan. I'd go as for as to say if we had either a Connolly, Brogan, Gooch or Murphy in this team we still would not have got over the line. Why not? The opposition would have planned for them and limited their impact. Like Dublin did with Aidan O Sé this year. Not all countries are as generous as we are to alpha forwards like we were to Gooch (X pick a number), Brogan, Murphy.
I don t know where the Keegan/O Connor thing is going. The way we play and the way Horan encouraged fbs to take a chance and make runs from deep it was always likely Keegan and Vaughan would get more opportunities than forwards with no space. Kudos to Horan for pursuing this tactic to break down defences. H&C tried to reign it in a bit but by the time we got to Dublin it looked like our running game was our best weapon yet again.
You know as well as I do Lar that Mayo have had forwards who knew how to score. Some had shorter careers but like of Jinkin Joe, Willie McGee, Seamie O Dowd, Joe McGrath, Billie Fitz were not gun shy. They never got within an ass's roar of an AI. There is more to this than freewheeling forwards imo. The scoring forwards are only part of the big picture. If everything else is in place the scores flow and you don t need any better than what we have to get that imo.
Funnily enough some observers think Rochfords priority is to get us to stop conceding soft goals, not scoring more.
But I m sure many people in Mayo will look at it like ...... if the forwards scored loads more we could concede soft goals and it be ok.
O Connor is so cool under pressure. I think he adds a lot to Mayo.
One or two free scoring forwards might be enough to get them over the line.
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2015, 10:59:09 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 11, 2015, 01:29:00 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 10, 2015, 06:46:19 PM
The mickey mouse match in Longford was championship Lar!
I was not using this as an example of how good our forwards were either. Just that all but remained after that disaster and all but one were still there this year.
I m just wondering do you consider some of them to have been passengers?
You say 'Why not take the results of the AI finals in successive years and see how Mayo's forwards ability to score from play stacks up against top class opposition'.
I dunno why you bring this up but seeing as you have are you suggesting that there were passengers there that should not have been selected?
Care to name them if that is the case?
I would suspect that 4 of our provincial neighbours and probably 20+ of countries nationwide think they have better forwards than we do. They base this assessment on watching their forwards play between February and early July. Their heroes never meet the proper tests of the bigger teams when things are getting serious in mid- August, let alone an AI final.
My own view of our failings in AI finals would differ from yours considerably. I would argue that our tactical nous was more instrumental that having fellas that could wallop ball over from 40- 50 metres. As if they d be let do that. I don t remember us giving Diarmuid Connolly the space to kick his mighty points that he does so freely during the earlier championship games. In the last 4 in recent the difference between winning and losing is far more complex than the tired old cliché of scoring forwards thrown out by likes of Spillane and McGee.
I'm teetotally lost here.
Of course the game in Longford was a championship one but it was against a Div 4 side and yet we managed to lose it. Of all the most unrepresentative games I have had the misfortune to watch, this one and the previous one against Sligo were the two that rocked me the most .We're in the business if winning AIs and anything less is a failure. Now, if you feel that the spread of scores that day means a) that there was no passenger forward on that team and b) that with that attack we could win an AI. There is no logical alternative to either or both.
You dunno why I bring up the subject of the Mayo forwards failings in not one but two AI finals! Where the hell else is more important? Is the gutless display against a Div 4 side a better measure of the quality of Mayo's attack than the results of not one but two AI finals? Cora Staunton would have shot the lights out in Longford that awful day.
Take the selected line ups (forwards) in the 2013: On the Mayo side, you Kevin McLoughlin, Keith Higgins , Alan Dillon; Cillian O'Connor Alan Freeman, Andy Moran.
How many would get a place in the Dub attack if this were possible?
On the day in question, I'd say none of them.
Now take P Flynn, P Andrews, D Connolly; P Mannion, C Kilkenny, B Brogan.
If any one of them was up for grabs would he get a place in Mayo's starting front six?
I'd say every one of them would.
Recall the game against Donegal in '12?
Why did Donegal not bother to contest Mayo kick outs in the second half? I say it was because they knew they could contain the Mayo forwards without a bother. Whadya think?
No matter what you or I think, the Donegal defence wasn't seriously bothered by the Mayo attack throughout that second half. Would the forwards we put out against Longford in '10 have won that game for us?
I'm a bit lost re Diarmuid Connolly. It wasn't the bleddy forwards that put the spancil on him, was it? Keegan could have shanked an assload of attempts from straight in front of goal for the purposes of this discussion and Maroon Manc's argument still stands. He sez "Lee Keegan has more scores from play in All Ireland Finals & Semi Finals than COC, from memory that's 9 games each."
Do you agree with him or not; is that true or false? You don't seriously expect me to name players who were doing their best but were not on top of their men. do you? I don't blame any man for lack of effort, merely lack of scores from play.
Yup; no problem in agreeing that a lack of tactical nous was a big, big factor in us coming up short in both finals but when it's done and dusted, it's scores on the board that counts and if your forwards, for whatever reason, don't/can't deliver, the outcome is not going to be a positive one. Simple as...
A few things Lar.
I accept that my point about that Longford may have been a bit opaque but the scores after players' names was incidental and not meant to show how great the forwards were. I just copied and pasted a source and the scores were included. What I was trying to say was that the players on that team in a nadir for Mayo football have had fine careers. Like maybe there is more to it than just the playing personnel?
Donegal Lar, habitually conceded opposition kick-outs. It meant they had loads of men behind the ball early and had nothing to do with not being bothered by Mayo forward. On the contrary. They made sure they wouldn 't be troubled by getting most of the team back in their own 45. Remember the Dublin players you admire so much only managed 0-8 against that system in 2011 AISF.
My point about Connolly is that even the best forwards can be contained if planning is right and if defenders are good enough/disciplined enough to stick to a plan. I'd go as for as to say if we had either a Connolly, Brogan, Gooch or Murphy in this team we still would not have got over the line. Why not? The opposition would have planned for them and limited their impact. Like Dublin did with Aidan O Sé this year. Not all countries are as generous as we are to alpha forwards like we were to Gooch (X pick a number), Brogan, Murphy.
I don t know where the Keegan/O Connor thing is going. The way we play and the way Horan encouraged fbs to take a chance and make runs from deep it was always likely Keegan and Vaughan would get more opportunities than forwards with no space. Kudos to Horan for pursuing this tactic to break down defences. H&C tried to reign it in a bit but by the time we got to Dublin it looked like our running game was our best weapon yet again.
You know as well as I do Lar that Mayo have had forwards who knew how to score. Some had shorter careers but like of Jinkin Joe, Willie McGee, Seamie O Dowd, Joe McGrath, Billie Fitz were not gun shy. They never got within an ass's roar of an AI. There is more to this than freewheeling forwards imo. The scoring forwards are only part of the big picture. If everything else is in place the scores flow and you don t need any better than what we have to get that imo.
Funnily enough some observers think Rochfords priority is to get us to stop conceding soft goals, not scoring more.
But I m sure many people in Mayo will look at it like ...... if the forwards scored loads more we could concede soft goals and it be ok.
All well and good moy but there's no denying the fact that when it counted, as in 20012 and 20013, Mayo scored less than the opposition. Donegal and Dublin would up with Sam and we wound up with memories of what might have been.
Now, I'd never criticise any player personally. They are an incredible bunch of lads and they owe nobody anything. But while Mayo could be expected to get to the quarters without too much fuss and made it to the semis each time, they weren't able to go go the full way.
So near and yet so far...
In my humble opinion they lacked the necessary firepower up front to do so and lacked the ruthlessness necessary to capitalise on their chances when the opposition were on the ropes.
Like you say "Donegal Lar, habitually conceded opposition kick-outs. It meant they had loads of men behind the ball early and had nothing to do with not being bothered by Mayo forward. On the contrary. They made sure they wouldn 't be troubled by getting most of the team back in their own 45. Remember the Dublin players you admire so much only managed 0-8 against that system in 2011 AISF.
But you'd have to go on and say that the Mayo attack were unable to overcome the Donegal defence. Yup, Dublin were only able to score 0-8 against them but the crucial fact is that they confined the Donegal to 0-5. Their defence wasn't in the habit of letting soft scores in, which is another problem with Mayo.
Connolly can be held and Lee is the man to do it but what about the other 5?
Dublin have won 3 of the last 5 All-Irelands which is cause enough for me to admire them. It has taken Mayo 131 years to amass the same amount!
Finally, of course there have been many fine Mayo forwards but, like you say, they hadn't enough of them at any one time and the various Mayo managers down the years were no tactical magicians either: more a case of Neville Longbottoms than Harry Potters.
Players can't be blamed for all the failings that have afflicted Mayo down the years but if Mayo score X and the opposition score X+1, the end result is all that counts.
We re not too far apart Lar. This new technology is great but things do sometimes get lost 'in translation'.
God be with the days when people talked about football in pubs over a quota of pints and not this keyboard stuff.
#if Mayo score X and the opposition score X+1, the end result is all that counts.#
Mayo players know what the result will be 5 minutes before the end in the biggest match of the year. How to change that (and then pass on the message to the Galway hurlers ).
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2015, 08:59:30 PM
#if Mayo score X and the opposition score X+1, the end result is all that counts.#
Mayo players know what the result will be 5 minutes before the end in the biggest match of the year. How to change that (and then pass on the message to the Galway hurlers ).
What were they thinking at 5 points down to Dublin, with 5 minutes to go?
They were thinking "we were 5 up against Kerry last year and managed a draw, lets do the same from 5 down today" simple muppet its called reverse psychology.
Quote from: muppet on December 14, 2015, 11:21:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2015, 08:59:30 PM
#if Mayo score X and the opposition score X+1, the end result is all that counts.#
Mayo players know what the result will be 5 minutes before the end in the biggest match of the year. How to change that (and then pass on the message to the Galway hurlers ).
What were they thinking at 5 points down to Dublin, with 5 minutes to go?
The finals. Last 5 mins. As a fan you know and the players know. It is inevitable. Same with Galway hurlers. How to change that?
Psychology might help. With 5,minutes left losing is not a fact. It is just an opinion......
Mayo and Galway have been predicted to win AI's in Football and Hurling respectively in 2016 in Old Moores Almanac! :P Jez can you imagine the Party! Every drink house from Belmullet to Portumna would be bone dry!
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 15, 2015, 08:32:46 AM
Mayo and Galway have been predicted to win AI's in Football and Hurling respectively in 2016 in Old Moores Almanac! :P Jez can you imagine the Party! Every drink house from Belmullet to Portumna would be bone dry!
Sounds like Old Moore is a Rossie taking the piss.
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2015, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 15, 2015, 08:32:46 AM
Mayo and Galway have been predicted to win AI's in Football and Hurling respectively in 2016 in Old Moores Almanac! :P Jez can you imagine the Party! Every drink house from Belmullet to Portumna would be bone dry!
Sounds like Old Moore is a Rossie taking the piss.
Well he did call Roscommon for the FBD so you could be right on that one
Since news spread that Old Moore was predicting a Mayo victory in 2016, palletloads of the 'Almanac' have been bought and set on fire throughout Roscommon. How dare he predict such misery for us >:(
We'll blockade Ballagh to make sure the traitors don't try parading Sam about the town.
That pleasure is for true Rossies only. ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2015, 07:59:41 PM
We'll blockade Ballagh to make sure the traitors don't try parading Sam about the town.
That pleasure is for true Rossies only. ;D
It will be paraded for the natives .
Quote from: larryin89 on December 15, 2015, 09:25:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2015, 07:59:41 PM
We'll blockade Ballagh to make sure the traitors don't try parading Sam about the town.
That pleasure is for true Rossies only. ;D
It will be paraded for the natives .
Natives are all Rossies now as there's nobody alive now who was around before 1898. ;)
http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/26981-another-fresh-start-for-team-mayo
Quote from: larryin89 on December 29, 2015, 03:46:27 PM
http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/26981-another-fresh-start-for-team-mayo
Know what Larry?
It's time to start a new thread now the the search is well and truly over and it's time to look forward and stop dwelling on the past.
Why don't you start a thread with that article to start (pardon the awful pun) the ball rolling.
I'd say Farrandeelin would have done this weeks ago if he was still around. I'm getting a bit worried about the lad; its six weeks or so since he last posted and that's most unlike him. I know he has problems with epilepsy and I just hope he hasn't had a serious attack.
I assume it's the same farr as posts over on willie joes site , if so , he posted recently about under21 venue change for sat belleek instead of belcoo.
Larry. How many sites are you trolling?
Quote from: Mayo Border on December 30, 2015, 12:20:15 AM
Larry. How many sites are you trolling?
What do you mean ?
Holmes and Connelly breaking their silence in the Indo tomorrow. Can't wait.
Quote from: Syferus on December 16, 2016, 12:09:10 PM
Holmes and Connelly breaking their silence in the Indo tomorrow. Can't wait.
Great. The Indo has one confirmed sale tomorrow.
Quote from: muppet on December 16, 2016, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 16, 2016, 12:09:10 PM
Holmes and Connelly breaking their silence in the Indo tomorrow. Can't wait.
Great. The Indo has one confirmed sale tomorrow.
I'm pretty sure everyone on this board that doesn't have a vested interest in them keeping quiet and pretending nothing happened is very interested to hear their side.
Pat is not a man for sticking the knife in and, while I don't know Noel, his brother is still Chairman of the CB, so I can't see him doing much of a hatchet job either.
However it being the Indo, I expect an eye-catching headline, followed by an article that appears to have no connection to the headline.
Quote from: muppet on December 16, 2016, 12:38:51 PM
Pat is not a man for sticking the knife in and, while I don't know Noel, his brother is still Chairman of the CB, so I can't see him doing much of a hatchet job either.
However it being the Indo, I expect an eye-catching headline, followed by an article that appears to have no connection to the headline.
The teaser quote in today's Indo has them having a shot at the team failing to win the AI this year. Always thought Holmes seemed a decent man even if he was too friendly with the tanned devil for my liking. Connelly probably deserves a second chance at IC but it will have to come outside Mayo now.
5 posts about Rhubarb management with 60% of them by Syfín. :-[ ::)
Enough said
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2016, 02:23:03 PM
5 posts about Rhubarb management with 60% of them by Syfín. :-[ ::)
Enough said
Next Christmas it will be FOD's time for a fireside chat with Martin Breheny..
Impeach Rochford.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 16, 2016, 02:54:23 PM
Impeach Rochford.
Jinxy,
Just in case you have a little extra downtime this weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwi-iG6SOdw
Massive intensity from both sides there.
Some fabulous hairstyles as well.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 16, 2016, 03:40:24 PM
Massive intensity from both sides there.
Some fabulous hairstyles as well.
"
The men of the west!
...the lads from Meath..."
I like it.
Also, the sight of Archbishops and other dignitaries running for their lives, after the throw-in, is something we should re-introduce.
Apparently it's part of Canon Law that you could burst the archbishop with a shoulder if he didn't get off the field quick enough, without fear of consequences.
The Pope believed it encouraged the clergy to maintain a high level of agility.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2016, 02:23:03 PM
5 posts about Rhubarb management with 60% of them by Syfín. :-[ ::)
Enough said
Never thought I'd say this but may ye forever continue to lose finals to Galway. (We'll take our chances via da backdoor.)
Last year poor Syferus got such a sickening when, after all his crowing and bullshitting, Galway knocked him and his deluded fantasies into never never land.
The poor hoor got such a shock to the nervous system that he forgot to post to a single Mayo forum for at least a month afterwards.
All of Mayo and most likely all of Roscommon too hopes he'll disappear for a while during next year.(I'd say two consecutive six- month breaks would do nicely.)
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 16, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2016, 02:23:03 PM
5 posts about Rhubarb management with 60% of them by Syfín. :-[ ::)
Enough said
Never thought I'd say this but may ye forever continue to lose finals to Galway. (We'll take our chances via da backdoor.)
Last year poor Syferus got such a sickening when, after all his crowing and bullshitting, Galway knocked him and his deluded fantasies into never never land.
The poor hoor got such a shock to the nervous system that he forgot to post to a single Mayo forum for at least a month afterwards.
All of Mayo and most likely all of Roscommon too hopes he'll disappear for a while during next year.(I'd say two consecutive six- month breaks would do nicely.)
The focus will be squarely on the buckaroos on your county panel come the morning..
Quote from: Syferus on December 16, 2016, 06:27:41 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 16, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2016, 02:23:03 PM
5 posts about Rhubarb management with 60% of them by Syfín. :-[ ::)
Enough said
Never thought I'd say this but may ye forever continue to lose finals to Galway. (We'll take our chances via da backdoor.)
Last year poor Syferus got such a sickening when, after all his crowing and bullshitting, Galway knocked him and his deluded fantasies into never never land.
The poor hoor got such a shock to the nervous system that he forgot to post to a single Mayo forum for at least a month afterwards.
All of Mayo and most likely all of Roscommon too hopes he'll disappear for a while during next year.(I'd say two consecutive six- month breaks would do nicely.)
The focus will be squarely on the buckaroos on your county panel come the morning..
Don't you worry Syf, we're all big boys 'n' girls now and can handle whatever comes our way.
After all, half of it won't be true and the rest is gonna be lies , so what? ;D
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 16, 2016, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 16, 2016, 06:27:41 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 16, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2016, 02:23:03 PM
5 posts about Rhubarb management with 60% of them by Syfín. :-[ ::)
Enough said
Never thought I'd say this but may ye forever continue to lose finals to Galway. (We'll take our chances via da backdoor.)
Last year poor Syferus got such a sickening when, after all his crowing and bullshitting, Galway knocked him and his deluded fantasies into never never land.
The poor hoor got such a shock to the nervous system that he forgot to post to a single Mayo forum for at least a month afterwards.
All of Mayo and most likely all of Roscommon too hopes he'll disappear for a while during next year.(I'd say two consecutive six- month breaks would do nicely.)
The focus will be squarely on the buckaroos on your county panel come the morning..
Don't you worry Syf, we're all big boys 'n' girls now and can handle whatever comes our way.
After all, half of it won't be true and the rest is gonna be lies , so what? ;D
The players have more reason to lie than H&C do. They have nothing left to lose.
Syf,You must feel like a 6 year old on Christmas eve waiting for Santa.
Quote from: maigheo on December 16, 2016, 07:54:24 PM
Syf,You must feel like a 6 year old on Christmas eve waiting for Santa.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Big Aido getting the corn rows back in this morning to distract attention away from it
Tis all ego. Thunderbolt and lightning. Last 5 minutes very frightening . And not being able to score more than 1-14. Caught in a landslide with no escape from reality. Will sports psychology get a mention? And scoring off the bad foot? Corner forward will you do the fandango. And jusht get it over with . So we can all get on with our lives.
From reading that online independent article I have two questions.
1. Did the egos force Rochford to change his goalkeeper in this years All Ireland final replay.
2. The outside influence who are these people and why should they have any say?
What!!
No sign of Syferus! I mean it's almost 10 o'clock and he hasn't had anything to say yet.
It's definitely not like him.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 17, 2016, 07:09:47 AM
From reading that online independent article I have two questions.
1. Did the egos force Rochford to change his goalkeeper in this years All Ireland final replay.
2. The outside influence who are these people and why should they have any say?
To answer question one, it done the rounds the week after replay loss that those egos did change the goalkeeper for replay as he was a club mate
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 17, 2016, 07:09:47 AM
From reading that online independent article I have two questions.
1. Did the egos force Rochford to change his goalkeeper in this years All Ireland final replay.
2. The outside influence who are these people and why should they have any say?
1. Complete nonsense. Clarke is a great keeper but his performance on the drawn game arguably cost us as much as Hennelly's did in the replay. As I've said before, I personally wouldn't have made the change, for an AIF replay, but I would have if it was earlier in the season.
2. A big boy told them. My guess this is a dig in the direction that the CB have been digging at for a while.
All that is happening is that this is the time of year when the Mayo CB annually deflect from this: http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/12321-mayo-gaa-action-plan-questions-are-answered (http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/12321-mayo-gaa-action-plan-questions-are-answered)
But it keeps likes of Syf warm in the winter.
Anyway, how many of ye have paid to read the 'Full Exclusive'? ;D
Seems clear to me as an outsider that the Breaffy/Ballintubber axis of evil needs to be confronted.
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 11:32:55 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 17, 2016, 07:09:47 AM
From reading that online independent article I have two questions.
1. Did the egos force Rochford to change his goalkeeper in this years All Ireland final replay.
2. The outside influence who are these people and why should they have any say?
1. Complete nonsense. Clarke is a great keeper but his performance on the drawn game arguably cost us as much as Hennelly's did in the replay. As I've said before, I personally wouldn't have made the change, for an AIF replay, but I would have if it was earlier in the season.
2. A big boy told them. My guess this is a dig in the direction that the CB have been digging at for a while.
All that is happening is that this is the time of year when the Mayo CB annually deflect from this: http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/12321-mayo-gaa-action-plan-questions-are-answered (http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/12321-mayo-gaa-action-plan-questions-are-answered)
But it keeps likes of Syf warm in the winter.
Anyway, how many of ye have paid to read the 'Full Exclusive'? ;D
Going to Ballagh to pick up a copy now, hopefully Andy hasn't already burnt them.
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 12:22:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 11:32:55 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 17, 2016, 07:09:47 AM
From reading that online independent article I have two questions.
1. Did the egos force Rochford to change his goalkeeper in this years All Ireland final replay.
2. The outside influence who are these people and why should they have any say?
1. Complete nonsense. Clarke is a great keeper but his performance on the drawn game arguably cost us as much as Hennelly's did in the replay. As I've said before, I personally wouldn't have made the change, for an AIF replay, but I would have if it was earlier in the season.
2. A big boy told them. My guess this is a dig in the direction that the CB have been digging at for a while.
All that is happening is that this is the time of year when the Mayo CB annually deflect from this: http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/12321-mayo-gaa-action-plan-questions-are-answered (http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/12321-mayo-gaa-action-plan-questions-are-answered)
But it keeps likes of Syf warm in the winter.
Anyway, how many of ye have paid to read the 'Full Exclusive'? ;D
Going to Ballagh to pick up a copy now, hopefully Andy hasn't already burnt them.
I'll ask him to wait until you are picking one up. :D
For all the people saying, "Why didn't they say all this a year ago?", would that have been preferable?
Seems to me they didn't want to disrupt the preparation for 2016.
This is the right time to say it, if you're going to say it at all.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
For all the people saying, "Why didn't they say all this a year ago?", would that have been preferable?
Seems to me they didn't want to disrupt the preparation for 2016.
This is the right time to say it, if you're going to say it at all.
There was no proper preparation for 2015 because of the shambolic appointment process by the County Board.
The 'not saying it a year ago argument' because it would disrupt the preparation for 2016, is exactly the same as doing it now and disrupting 2017.
'Outside influences' seems to me to mean former management.
Losing the dressing room is usually rarely unanimous but almost always fatal for a management.
So the question regarding all of this is: Cui Bono?
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
For all the people saying, "Why didn't they say all this a year ago?", would that have been preferable?
Seems to me they didn't want to disrupt the preparation for 2016.
This is the right time to say it, if you're going to say it at all.
There was no proper preparation for 2015 because of the shambolic appointment process by the County Board.
The 'not saying it a year ago argument' because it would disrupt the preparation for 2016, is exactly the same as doing it now and disrupting 2017.
'Outside influences' seems to me to mean former management.
Losing the dressing room is usually rarely unanimous but almost always fatal for a management.
So the question regarding all of this is: Qui Bono?
I disagree.
Rochford has a year under his belt and no one will even remember this by the time the NFL starts.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
For all the people saying, "Why didn't they say all this a year ago?", would that have been preferable?
Seems to me they didn't want to disrupt the preparation for 2016.
This is the right time to say it, if you're going to say it at all.
There was no proper preparation for 2015 because of the shambolic appointment process by the County Board.
The 'not saying it a year ago argument' because it would disrupt the preparation for 2016, is exactly the same as doing it now and disrupting 2017.
'Outside influences' seems to me to mean former management.
Losing the dressing room is usually rarely unanimous but almost always fatal for a management.
So the question regarding all of this is: Qui Bono?
I disagree.
Rochford has a year under his belt and no one will even remember this by the time the NFL starts.
If that were true, what would be the point then if no one remembers?
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
For all the people saying, "Why didn't they say all this a year ago?", would that have been preferable?
Seems to me they didn't want to disrupt the preparation for 2016.
This is the right time to say it, if you're going to say it at all.
There was no proper preparation for 2015 because of the shambolic appointment process by the County Board.
The 'not saying it a year ago argument' because it would disrupt the preparation for 2016, is exactly the same as doing it now and disrupting 2017.
'Outside influences' seems to me to mean former management.
Losing the dressing room is usually rarely unanimous but almost always fatal for a management.
So the question regarding all of this is: Qui Bono?
I disagree.
Rochford has a year under his belt and no one will even remember this by the time the NFL starts.
Well I'm writing down ideas for some abuse to roar based on the contents of the article, actually.
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:00:58 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
For all the people saying, "Why didn't they say all this a year ago?", would that have been preferable?
Seems to me they didn't want to disrupt the preparation for 2016.
This is the right time to say it, if you're going to say it at all.
There was no proper preparation for 2015 because of the shambolic appointment process by the County Board.
The 'not saying it a year ago argument' because it would disrupt the preparation for 2016, is exactly the same as doing it now and disrupting 2017.
'Outside influences' seems to me to mean former management.
Losing the dressing room is usually rarely unanimous but almost always fatal for a management.
So the question regarding all of this is: Qui Bono?
I disagree.
Rochford has a year under his belt and no one will even remember this by the time the NFL starts.
If that were true, what would be the point then if no one remembers?
The point is, they are getting to give people their side of the story.
I think they're entitled to do that.
Opinions on social media and shows like Off The Ball etc. are heavily weighted towards the player perspective in general.
Neither side 'gave their side', until now.
I hope the players are bigger than the two lads and stay away from 'Indo Exclusives'.
The vast majority of Mayo supporters had great sympathy for the two lads, but probably supported the players. The article probably changes that, in favour of the players, as long as they keep their heads down.
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
Neither side 'gave their side', until now.
I hope the players are bigger than the two lads and stay away from 'Indo Exclusives'.
The vast majority of Mayo supporters had great sympathy for the two lads, but probably supported the players. The article probably changes that, in favour of the players, as long as they keep their heads down.
I would hope some Mayo supporters have more perspective than you on this one.
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:22:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
Neither side 'gave their side', until now.
I hope the players are bigger than the two lads and stay away from 'Indo Exclusives'.
The vast majority of Mayo supporters had great sympathy for the two lads, but probably supported the players. The article probably changes that, in favour of the players, as long as they keep their heads down.
I would hope some Mayo supporters have more perspective than you on this one.
I'm sure many do, and we certainly have a lot more perspective than you.
Ger Gilroy @gergilroy 2h2 hours ago
They heap abuse on the Horan regime, slag off the players and justify every single thing they ever did weeks after own goals cost Mayo Sam.
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:22:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
Neither side 'gave their side', until now.
I hope the players are bigger than the two lads and stay away from 'Indo Exclusives'.
The vast majority of Mayo supporters had great sympathy for the two lads, but probably supported the players. The article probably changes that, in favour of the players, as long as they keep their heads down.
I would hope some Mayo supporters have more perspective than you on this one.
I'm sure many do, and we certainly have a lot more perspective than you.
Ger Gilroy @gergilroy 2h2 hours ago
They heap abuse on the Horan regime, slag off the players and justify every single thing they ever did weeks after own goals cost Mayo Sam.
??
The dirty secret about all this is it was very obvious that Horan, consciously or unconsciously, militarised the Mayo panel against the county board. He was the enabler of the behaviour last Autumn. It would have been pointless if Holmes and Connelly pretended their predecessor was a saint because by God was he not.
And everyone knows own goals are the symptom of the malaise that has stopped Mayo winning the AI, not the cause. But that fact would have stopped Ger's rant in its tracks so he ignored it..
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:22:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
Neither side 'gave their side', until now.
I hope the players are bigger than the two lads and stay away from 'Indo Exclusives'.
The vast majority of Mayo supporters had great sympathy for the two lads, but probably supported the players. The article probably changes that, in favour of the players, as long as they keep their heads down.
I would hope some Mayo supporters have more perspective than you on this one.
I'm sure many do, and we certainly have a lot more perspective than you.
Ger Gilroy @gergilroy 2h2 hours ago
They heap abuse on the Horan regime, slag off the players and justify every single thing they ever did weeks after own goals cost Mayo Sam.
??
The dirty secret about all this is it was very obvious that Horan, consciously or unconsciously, militarised the Mayo panel against the county board. It would have been pointless if Holmes and Connelly pretended their predecessor was a saint because by God was he not.
Lol.
I'm confused. Who's Ger Gilroy?
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
Neither side 'gave their side', until now.
I hope the players are bigger than the two lads and stay away from 'Indo Exclusives'.
The vast majority of Mayo supporters had great sympathy for the two lads, but probably supported the players. The article probably changes that, in favour of the players, as long as they keep their heads down.
The players don't have to give their side because they won.
They're still there, playing away.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 03:21:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
Neither side 'gave their side', until now.
I hope the players are bigger than the two lads and stay away from 'Indo Exclusives'.
The vast majority of Mayo supporters had great sympathy for the two lads, but probably supported the players. The article probably changes that, in favour of the players, as long as they keep their heads down.
The players don't have to give their side because they won.
They're still there, playing away.
No one won.
But the players don't need to respond. They have the support of the vast majority of the supporters.
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:22:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
Neither side 'gave their side', until now.
I hope the players are bigger than the two lads and stay away from 'Indo Exclusives'.
The vast majority of Mayo supporters had great sympathy for the two lads, but probably supported the players. The article probably changes that, in favour of the players, as long as they keep their heads down.
I would hope some Mayo supporters have more perspective than you on this one.
I'm sure many do, and we certainly have a lot more perspective than you.
Ger Gilroy @gergilroy 2h2 hours ago
They heap abuse on the Horan regime, slag off the players and justify every single thing they ever did weeks after own goals cost Mayo Sam.
??
The dirty secret about all this is it was very obvious that Horan, consciously or unconsciously, militarised the Mayo panel against the county board. It would have been pointless if Holmes and Connelly pretended their predecessor was a saint because by God was he not.
Lol.
What is gonig off to New York and running your own fundraiser against the CB's wishes in your world, Muppet? The signs of a good working relationship?
H&C were set up to fail. It didn't matter how good or bad they were as managers. The panel saw them as CB men and they saw themselves through the Us versus Them prism Horan established.
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 03:50:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:22:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 02:17:17 PM
Neither side 'gave their side', until now.
I hope the players are bigger than the two lads and stay away from 'Indo Exclusives'.
The vast majority of Mayo supporters had great sympathy for the two lads, but probably supported the players. The article probably changes that, in favour of the players, as long as they keep their heads down.
I would hope some Mayo supporters have more perspective than you on this one.
I'm sure many do, and we certainly have a lot more perspective than you.
Ger Gilroy @gergilroy 2h2 hours ago
They heap abuse on the Horan regime, slag off the players and justify every single thing they ever did weeks after own goals cost Mayo Sam.
??
The dirty secret about all this is it was very obvious that Horan, consciously or unconsciously, militarised the Mayo panel against the county board. It would have been pointless if Holmes and Connelly pretended their predecessor was a saint because by God was he not.
Lol.
What is gonig off to New York and running your own fundraiser against the CB's wishes in your world, Muppet? The signs of a good working relationship?
H&C were set up to fail. It didn't matter how good or bad they were as managers. The panel saw them as CB men and they saw themselves through the Us versus Them prism Horan established.
Now what tangent have you run off on?
Let me know when you come back.
Just read the letter the players sent to the CB.
Wow.
I had huge respect for the two lads up until this point. I presume they did the interview at the counter in the Palace bar where the other dreg lives. Vindictave piece that leaves little in way of reply for the players, except that is if the County Board releases the mediators report from the incident. The appointment process, liason issues and all the other criteria that would provide balance in this case would show the players to have acted correctly. I hope in doing this interview the lads have found some form of closure, it's just a pity that's it's this they'll be remebered for and not their success on the field.
I sincerely hope the players put that article up in the dressing room wall when they get back from their well deserved holiday to South Africa next month.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 04:03:59 PM
Just read the letter the players sent to the CB.
Wow.
Now we know who is behind the leaks.
And the story.
But then we knew all along.
A lot of interesting stuff here.
Holmes/Connelly on Mayo revolt: Aidan O'Shea's selection email, Seamus lobbying for Hennelly and clashes over mass times
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html)
'Following the departure of Holmes and Connelly, the Mayo County Board invited Martin Conry (DCU) as an independent mediator/facilitator to examine the entire sequence of events and to make recommendations for the future.
His report, which had not made public until now, reflects badly on the squad.
He wrote that while the players outlined their concerns to him, they would not allow him to report back to Holmes and Connelly. That left him unable to "adjudicate on the merits of the contrary positions".
He proposed that the players meet Holmes/Connelly to set out their views but that was rejected. Conry felt that the managers were entitled to that on the basis that they "could reasonably argue that they suffered reputational damage and are entitled to have cause stated to them".
He also found that instead of demanding that the management be removed, the squad would have been better advised to follow "a more graduated approach to the perceived matter at issue".
On the threatened strike, he felt that it should only have become an option when all negotiations with the county board - who appointed the managers - had been exhausted.'
Would any Mayo folk disagree with the bit in bold?
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 06:27:18 PM
A lot of interesting stuff here.
Holmes/Connelly on Mayo revolt: Aidan O'Shea's selection email, Seamus lobbying for Hennelly and clashes over mass times
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html)
'Following the departure of Holmes and Connelly, the Mayo County Board invited Martin Conry (DCU) as an independent mediator/facilitator to examine the entire sequence of events and to make recommendations for the future.
His report, which had not made public until now, reflects badly on the squad.
He wrote that while the players outlined their concerns to him, they would not allow him to report back to Holmes and Connelly. That left him unable to "adjudicate on the merits of the contrary positions".
He proposed that the players meet Holmes/Connelly to set out their views but that was rejected. Conry felt that the managers were entitled to that on the basis that they "could reasonably argue that they suffered reputational damage and are entitled to have cause stated to them".
He also found that instead of demanding that the management be removed, the squad would have been better advised to follow "a more graduated approach to the perceived matter at issue".
On the threatened strike, he felt that it should only have become an option when all negotiations with the county board - who appointed the managers - had been exhausted.'
Would any Mayo folk disagree with the bit in bold?
It might sound reasonable, if the original appointment of the lads and subsequent investigation into that shambles had been as 'graduated'. But it wasn't, so it most likely looked like another fudge to the players.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 06:27:18 PM
A lot of interesting stuff here.
Holmes/Connelly on Mayo revolt: Aidan O'Shea's selection email, Seamus lobbying for Hennelly and clashes over mass times
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html)
'Following the departure of Holmes and Connelly, the Mayo County Board invited Martin Conry (DCU) as an independent mediator/facilitator to examine the entire sequence of events and to make recommendations for the future.
His report, which had not made public until now, reflects badly on the squad.
He wrote that while the players outlined their concerns to him, they would not allow him to report back to Holmes and Connelly. That left him unable to "adjudicate on the merits of the contrary positions".
He proposed that the players meet Holmes/Connelly to set out their views but that was rejected. Conry felt that the managers were entitled to that on the basis that they "could reasonably argue that they suffered reputational damage and are entitled to have cause stated to them".
He also found that instead of demanding that the management be removed, the squad would have been better advised to follow "a more graduated approach to the perceived matter at issue".
On the threatened strike, he felt that it should only have become an option when all negotiations with the county board - who appointed the managers - had been exhausted.'
Would any Mayo folk disagree with the bit in bold?
TBH, my good man,most Mayo folks don't give two flying fucks whether the squad did or not! ;D ;D
That's past history, aimsir caite etc. etc. No point looking back now, is there?
But anyway, fair dues to your good self and the indefatigable Syf for trying to turn a molehill into a mountain.
We're doing grand as we are and all offers, suggestions, opinions, warnings etc. etc. from the usual suspects will be treated with the same respect as similar ones got in the past.
The Jimmy White of the GAA... some great performances but always bottle the big final
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 07:08:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 06:27:18 PM
A lot of interesting stuff here.
Holmes/Connelly on Mayo revolt: Aidan O'Shea's selection email, Seamus lobbying for Hennelly and clashes over mass times
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html)
'Following the departure of Holmes and Connelly, the Mayo County Board invited Martin Conry (DCU) as an independent mediator/facilitator to examine the entire sequence of events and to make recommendations for the future.
His report, which had not made public until now, reflects badly on the squad.
He wrote that while the players outlined their concerns to him, they would not allow him to report back to Holmes and Connelly. That left him unable to "adjudicate on the merits of the contrary positions".
He proposed that the players meet Holmes/Connelly to set out their views but that was rejected. Conry felt that the managers were entitled to that on the basis that they "could reasonably argue that they suffered reputational damage and are entitled to have cause stated to them".
He also found that instead of demanding that the management be removed, the squad would have been better advised to follow "a more graduated approach to the perceived matter at issue".
On the threatened strike, he felt that it should only have become an option when all negotiations with the county board - who appointed the managers - had been exhausted.'
Would any Mayo folk disagree with the bit in bold?
It might sound reasonable, if the original appointment of the lads and subsequent investigation into that shambles had been as 'graduated'. But it wasn't, so it most likely looked like another fudge to the players.
Well if that's the cause of it all fair enough, but it seems a bit unfair to H & C to dress it up as something else.
Seems like they were dead men walking from the get go.
Quote from: longballin on December 17, 2016, 07:11:54 PM
The Jimmy White of the GAA... some great performances but always bottle the big final
And we served ye ye're arse on a plate this year! Beaten by bottlers! That must have been hard to swallow? :P
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 07:22:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 07:08:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 06:27:18 PM
A lot of interesting stuff here.
Holmes/Connelly on Mayo revolt: Aidan O'Shea's selection email, Seamus lobbying for Hennelly and clashes over mass times
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/holmesconnelly-on-mayo-revolt-aidan-osheas-selection-email-seamus-lobbying-for-hennelly-and-clashes-over-mass-times-35301012.html)
'Following the departure of Holmes and Connelly, the Mayo County Board invited Martin Conry (DCU) as an independent mediator/facilitator to examine the entire sequence of events and to make recommendations for the future.
His report, which had not made public until now, reflects badly on the squad.
He wrote that while the players outlined their concerns to him, they would not allow him to report back to Holmes and Connelly. That left him unable to "adjudicate on the merits of the contrary positions".
He proposed that the players meet Holmes/Connelly to set out their views but that was rejected. Conry felt that the managers were entitled to that on the basis that they "could reasonably argue that they suffered reputational damage and are entitled to have cause stated to them".
He also found that instead of demanding that the management be removed, the squad would have been better advised to follow "a more graduated approach to the perceived matter at issue".
On the threatened strike, he felt that it should only have become an option when all negotiations with the county board - who appointed the managers - had been exhausted.'
Would any Mayo folk disagree with the bit in bold?
It might sound reasonable, if the original appointment of the lads and subsequent investigation into that shambles had been as 'graduated'. But it wasn't, so it most likely looked like another fudge to the players.
Well if that's the cause of it all fair enough, but it seems a bit unfair to H & C to dress it up as something else.
Seems like they were dead men walking from the get go.
I don't think it was the cause, but it was a very bad start.
Even if you take the article in isolation, the stories are all about the players whinging and how they had to say things like 'that's not the way it works' while putting players in their boxes. Then at the end, they are all ears, demanding answers from the players.
The Aiden O'Shea 'selection email' [it even made the Indo headline!]is embarrassing: '
..expressing his and other players' surprise that a certain panel member was not making the match-day squad of 26...' is hardly picking the team is it? Jesus wept, if that is on the management list of gripes.....
Well that's that! H & C let loose! Just before Christmas! Martin Brehony needs a story before Christmas and he got it. That will be that in a week or two. Puts pressure again on the players and that can't be bad? Can it?
The Cunniffe interview a few weeks ago makes sense now. Was wondering at comments like that being made out of no where. He knew this was coming and the Indo was testing the water.
As is now the norm with Mayo Players, I expect a mute response from them.
In fairness to H & C there won't be any reply from the players because the truth is on h & c s side. The world & its mother knew the key operators in the heave. Thought it lacked malice in not mentioning the player a o Shea was emailing about or the perks for players under the previous logistics set-up. The conversation re: hennellys kick outs confirms the chat this September. Cunniffe was brave & honest and obviously needed to clear his conscience. H & C aren't robots, they're human and needed to set matters straight. Rochford & the players need to learn and move on...rochford needs to establish who is boss...cut some excellent servants of old and tell others that , as colm o rourke says, "when you join the army you have to wear the boots"
This is a necessary stage and it should not be played out in public. By refusing to have this out at the time In house shows there seems to be A lack of hard direct honest talk. The big egos need handled but in most big counties they are. It could have already cost them this years all Ireland if they were allowed to influence that goalkeeper decision. I think this could be a real watershed for Mayo.
The players have to be ruthless on the pitch. And they hafta be able to score when it counts
Quote from: rrhf on December 17, 2016, 10:48:04 PM
This is a necessary stage and it should not be played out in public. By refusing to have this out at the time In house shows there seems to be A lack of hard direct honest talk. The big egos need handled but in most big counties they are. It could have already cost them this years all Ireland if they were allowed to influence that goalkeeper decision. I think this could be a real watershed for Mayo.
I doubt it will change anything.
Speaking as someone that didn't welcome H&C appointment and the way it was done I think they were badly shafted once they were in place. The players grievances seems to have been vexatious. Anybody that ever tried to manage a team at any level would have to have sympathy with H&C.
I believe that H&C were tactically better than Horan. I suspect that some influential players just didn't want them from the start and were stoking up resentment during 2015.
I believe Rochford is probably better tactically than H&C but he may be damaged already by suspicions in many peoples minds that he is a dog wagged by the tail that swiped H&C away. What he can do to check those 'ego' that H&C go on about, remains to be seen. Looks like he is between a rock and a hard place.
I find it incredible Dillon had the balls to question Andy Moran being selected above him. Dillon's legs went about three years ago. He just isn't up to scratch at IC anymore and anyone who has watched Mayo can see that. That's not insult to him because he was a fine player in his heyday but that time has passed. You'd expect a bit more maturity from one of the most experienced members of the Mayo panel than to go sowing seeds of discontent because he's in a sulk over being dropped.
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 11:53:05 PM
I find it incredible Dillon had the balls to question Andy Moran being selected above him. Dillon's legs went about three years ago. He just isn't up to scratch at IC anymore and anyone who has watched Mayo can see that. That's not insult to him because he was a fine player in his heyday but that time has passed. You'd expect a bit more maturity from one of the most experienced members of the Mayo panel than to go sowing seeds of discontent because he's in a sulk over being dropped.
I don't think there is a suggestion that Dillon sowed 'seeds of discontent'.
Why weren't you in Kiltoom Syfín instead of spending the day worrying about the Rhubarbs??
I wasn't there either by the way. Too far South for my liking. :D
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2016, 12:17:19 AM
Why weren't you in Kiltoom Syfín instead of spending the day worrying about the Rhubarbs??
I wasn't there either by the way. Too far South for my liking. :D
Too knackered from Christmas shopping in Athlone.
Quote from: moysider on December 18, 2016, 12:15:10 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 11:53:05 PM
I find it incredible Dillon had the balls to question Andy Moran being selected above him. Dillon's legs went about three years ago. He just isn't up to scratch at IC anymore and anyone who has watched Mayo can see that. That's not insult to him because he was a fine player in his heyday but that time has passed. You'd expect a bit more maturity from one of the most experienced members of the Mayo panel than to go sowing seeds of discontent because he's in a sulk over being dropped.
I don't think there is a suggestion that Dillon sowed 'seeds of discontent'.
There most certainly is. This is the Indo tell all about the Mayo Heave story, front page banner etc, and Dillon's alleged gripe features very prominently in the article. You can't choose the bits you want to be annoyed about and blame them, while ignoring the other similarly lame claims.
Dillon was dropped by Horan, and we saw no heave. I'm guessing that Aiden O'Shea and/or other senior players may have commented on the match day 26 under Horan and/or O'Mahony, and there was no heave. Seamus O'Shea didn't even start under Rochford, and there was no heave. Hennelly left the squad under Horan and was dropped under Rochford and yet again, no heave.
Why just H&C?
Now.....would anyone like to explain to me why Holmes and Connelly felt the need to bring up fund raising in the 'exclusive' on the players' revolt? Both commented on that issue. But no elaboration. Why?
The article is full of half stories and subtle innuendoes, without really saying anything. There is no mention of the shambolic appointment process. The article reads very poorly imho and H&C go from dismissing all player issues as trivial, to demanding to know why the players wanted them gone after the fact. The big irony of course is that the players' liaison with the County Board isn't mentioned at all in the article, even in the mediation. Why is that?
A lot of vague stories all right but at least ye all know now exactly who the inner circle of trouble makers were, all named in the article.
If lads are dropped it's actually a healthy thing if they individually ask the management the questions. Obviously the fundraising has been questioned here. Co treAsurer needs to step up. Access to fundraising can create massive problems.
Aidan o se was possibly mayos worst player over two games in the all Ireland. In any other county he would subsequently be regarded as having reached his level - tarred with "not capable" on the big day status. I do th think hes a leader. Certainly needs to be warned about the negativity if not chased.
That's a serious attempt at throwing players under a bus and shows little or no integrity value in the two ousted managers. The article highlights a long list of broken confidences by them and I couldn't see any team with serious intentions ever going near them.
The article makes a strong statement about how important it is for them to 'have their say' rather than their purported motivation of helping Mayo.
Some blantant bull in that article. Shocking stuff from H&C, they've managed to come out of this worse in than they were. Impressive
A couple of posters here have derided H&C for choosing to air their side of the story. I think that's he least they are entitled to do. To me (one of many neutrals on here...albeit one who roared himself hoarse for Mayo in the replay) two passionate Mayo men, who won an all ireland u 21 title with many of these players, finally got their big chance at managing their county and made a fairly decent job of it on the surface, at least results wise. (In my book any team that can go toe to toe with the Dubs for 70 mins can say that).
For reasons they allude to and obviously others not yet in the public domain....they were royally shafted. They have aired their grievances and I feel they were well entitled to do that.
There are usually two sides to every story but in this case there could be much more. The first Mayo player to write his autobiography with a proper warts and all account will clean up!
I find it incredible that some here think it's ok for players to leak endless subtle character assassinations to the public, which is what has essentially happened to Holmes and Connelly on here and in the eyes of far too many GAA people, but it isn't ok for them to have the balls to cut away from the cloak and dagger shite and have their say out in public where everyone and anyone can tear apart every little thing they said. What the players did at the time and over the last year was far more cowardly and self-serving.
For Mayo supporters it's obviously a case of vested interest - the players are still there and washing away their sins seems the expedient way of dealing with a situation where they have a lot of blood on their hands. But not fronting up about how cancerous player power can be in the inter-county scene is only going to end up hurting you in the long run, which paraphrased was the over-arching point the interview. It's hard to argue with that.
Why anyone outside Mayo could side with the players over the two managers (read: not the CB), well, that can only be seen as a massive misreading of what happened.
Bit disappointed in the lads doing an article with Breheny. To be fair to the two lads, if you were going to pick a time to make a statement without disrupting Mayo football then this is when to do it! No intercounty (even FBD), no club games, nothing really. Any other time and it would have been disruptive. So for that one can be thankful. Both lads are proud men. Often we forget how much being told you are not good enough can hurt. Especially in the sporting world.
They have said their bit and I'd expect them to say little else.
Although there is a lot of commentary from their own (often biased) perspective that is neither here nor there. There is a lot of home truths there also. And to ignore these would (could) be fatal.
I have good time for both H & C. They have been involved in some of the happiest sporting moments of my life. That said I was not in favour of them being appointed to (Joint) Management. They were a appointment of convenience by the County Board and became victims.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 18, 2016, 11:17:46 AM
Bit disappointed in the lads doing an article with Breheny. To be fair to the two lads, if you were going to pick a time to make a statement without disrupting Mayo football then this is when to do it! No intercounty (even FBD), no club games, nothing really. Any other time and it would have been disruptive. So for that one can be thankful. Both lads are proud men. Often we forget how much being told you are not good enough can hurt. Especially in the sporting world.
They have said their bit and I'd expect them to say little else.
Although there is a lot of commentary from their own (often biased) perspective that is neither here nor there. There is a lot of home truths there also. And to ignore these would (could) be fatal.
I have good time for both H & C. They have been involved in some of the happiest sporting moments of my life. That said I was not in favour of them being appointed to (Joint) Management. They were a appointment of convenience by the County Board and became victims.
That's it in a nutshell. The appointment process was a shambles. Even the article hints at some CB old scores, not related to the players.
I'll ask again, anyone know what are H&C doing whinging about fund raising, in a tell all exclusive on why the players removed them? What is the agenda there?
Quote from: Syferus on December 18, 2016, 11:16:31 AM
I find it incredible that some here think it's ok for players to leak endless subtle character assassinations to the public, which is what has essentially happened to Holmes and Connelly on here and in the eyes of far too many GAA people, but it isn't ok for them to have the balls to cut away from the cloak and dagger shite and have their say out in public where everyone and anyone can tear apart every little thing they said. What the players did at the time and over the last year was far more cowardly and self-serving.
For Mayo supporters it's obviously a case of vested interest - the players are still there and washing away their sins seems the expedient way of dealing with a situation where they have a lot of blood on their hands. But not fronting up about how cancerous player power can be in the inter-county scene is only going to end up hurting you in the long run, which paraphrased was the over-arching point the interview. It's hard to argue with that.
Why anyone outside Mayo could side with the players over the two managers (read: not the CB), well, that can only be seen as a massive misreading of what happened.
When did the players leak anything?
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/holmes-and-connelly-interview/354694
Some gems in there
QuoteA few players 'took exception' to the message being delivered by management
The joint managers felt that for Mayo to win an All-Ireland, something things needed to change such as players needing to become more ruthless. The majority of the panel believed this to be true. However, some players 'took exception' to this message according to Holmes.
One player stood up during a meeting in early 2015 and said:
"These fellas don't think we're good enough."
This drew a response from another panel member.
"Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now."
Whoever that first player is needs to be beaten around the head until some sort of sense leaks in. At least the second player called him on his nonsense.
QuoteThree players objected to member of the medical team leaving
When a member of the setup's medical team left by their own decision, three members of the panel approached management and demanded that he be brought back in.
According to Holmes:
We were told, 'You'll have to reinstate him'. We said: 'How can we - he walked away - it was his choice'. Were were then told that we would have to adhere to his demands to which there could be one reply: 'It doesn't work like that.'
Talk about being utterly clueless - what did the players expect Holmes and Connolly to do - hold the individual hostage?
QuoteMass caused a 'big fuss'
In late March of 2015, with Mayo down in Cork for a league game, one player kicked up a 'big fuss' because a pre-match meal was put back by 15 minutes. This was due to a Palm Sunday mass running, which some players had attended, running long.
I'm with the player on this - delaying a meal because some players are late is just rank stupidity. Also the players who were late should have shown proper consideration for their team-mates - turning up late to a team meal like this is the height of ignorance.
The two boys are right to give their side of the story, they did suffer a cloak and daggers campaign to undermine them which was obvious on here.
Was it larnaparka who told on here some Horseshit story about them leaving the tactical plan on a breakfast table before the AI final. What kind of bull was that.
To paraphrase the title of a recent article by Robert Fisk, 'There is more than one truth to tell in the heartbreaking story of Mayo'.
Quote from: trileacman on December 18, 2016, 01:11:55 PM
The two boys are right to give their side of the story, they did suffer a cloak and daggers campaign to undermine them which was obvious on here.
Was it larnaparka who told on here some Horseshit story about them leaving the tactical plan on a breakfast table before the AI final. What kind of bull was that.
Semi final replay actually, 100% accurate.
Interesting to see how this is being received outside the county. Maybe H&C knew they had burned bridges and hoped for sympathy from outside the county.
No, it was one of the players who left the plans behind, not them.
Cannot for the life of me understand why Homes and Connelly have given this interview. It might go down well outside the county but will be seen as poison by anybody who has the interests of Mayo football at heart.
Forget about the H & C stuff for a second.
Would any Mayo fan disagree with the statement that a small group of players seem to wield a disproportionate influence on the decision-making process, and that may not be in the best interests of Mayo football?
Quote from: muppet on December 18, 2016, 11:50:38 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 18, 2016, 11:17:46 AM
Bit disappointed in the lads doing an article with Breheny. To be fair to the two lads, if you were going to pick a time to make a statement without disrupting Mayo football then this is when to do it! No intercounty (even FBD), no club games, nothing really. Any other time and it would have been disruptive. So for that one can be thankful. Both lads are proud men. Often we forget how much being told you are not good enough can hurt. Especially in the sporting world.
They have said their bit and I'd expect them to say little else.
Although there is a lot of commentary from their own (often biased) perspective that is neither here nor there. There is a lot of home truths there also. And to ignore these would (could) be fatal.
I have good time for both H & C. They have been involved in some of the happiest sporting moments of my life. That said I was not in favour of them being appointed to (Joint) Management. They were a appointment of convenience by the County Board and became victims.
That's it in a nutshell. The appointment process was a shambles. Even the article hints at some CB old scores, not related to the players.
I'll ask again, anyone know what are H&C doing whinging about fund raising, in a tell all exclusive on why the players removed them? What is the agenda there?
I believe they were referring to what happened in New York when Mayo went there in 2014. There was some sort of a standoff between Horan and the CB while the squad was there. A fundraiser was held on the night before the game, which was organised by Eugene Lavin, the former Mayo goalkeeper.
IIRC, Horan wasn't told about this until the day before the game and he refused to attend and didn't allow the players to go either as it would disrupt his preparations for the upcoming game.
There was some controversy generated by this refusal to co-operate given that those attending were being asked to shell out $100 or more , expecting to meet some of the players and they were going to be upset at the no-show.
Obviously, that was only reported in the days following the return to Mayo and as the championship proper was about to begin, little enough was made of this spat at the time.
However, rumours began to circulate shortly afterwards about the fundraiser and the reasons for staging it. I'm going by what I read in the local papers here and while I don't recall any direct accusations being levelled at any quarter it was made clear that it wasn't held for the benefit of the county board.
I'm not quite sure what H&C meant in their reference to unofficial fundraising but it certainly wasn't meant for Horan or his players either.
Was some that didn't like H&C or the idea of joint managers from day one but the majority thought the statement they gave when stepping down was dignified however it now seems that statement was perhaps hand written for them.
Why they needed a full year to finally come out with their side of the story is strange. Obviously the Indo paid them a nice sum of money to spill the beans.
Yeah, this would have been a great discussion to have while Mayo were in the middle of appointing a new manager.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 18, 2016, 01:23:08 PM
No, it was one of the players who left the plans behind, not them.
No, that's what the two lads are saying now but when the controversy about the demand for their resignation broke, what was reported and unchallenged was that the two managers had left their own plans behind them.
Now, I can't say what really happened as only those directly involved know the truth. What I've said is what I read- no more and no less.
But it's kinda strange that the players would have made an issue out of this if it had been one of their own that forget his instructions.
Why would the players blame H&C for anything that wasn't their fault?
And, while I'm at it, what player ever needed to have his instructions about what to do on the field of play written down and handed to him.
I dunno, perhaps the players felt that it was up to the management to put in place a system that ensured such documents were controlled?
Eugene Rooney was the ex Mayo goalkeeper not Eugene Lavin.Connelly and Holmes wanted to release the letter last year but were stopped from doing so by the co. board chairman
Extraordinary article yesterday.
Especially since we now know the players have final say on the goal- keeping selection.
Hard to believe David Clarke has gone back
Also Lar, the incident you describe re the tactical plans being left behind in the hotel and how you came to hear about it, gives the lie to the notion that the players have maintained a dignified silence since H & C left.
There are 40 odd players in a squad, therefore large swathes of the county would have heard about things that went on inside the camp in the year since.
I'd wager that H & C hear a lot of this type of stuff too.
If I was being blamed for something incorrectly and I knew that this was due to an erroneous version of events that was being peddled around the county, I'd have no problem setting the record straight.
There's a curse on Mayo football all right - but you can't blame the Church for this one
From Eamonn Sweeney on the independent.
Martin Breheny's interview in the Irish Independent with Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly is probably the Irish sports scoop of the year. It's certainly one of the most fascinating and revealing insights into the inner workings of a GAA team you're likely to read.
While it might be pushing it a bit to describe the interview as Shakespearean there's no denying that it contains copious elements of history, comedy and tragedy. First and foremost, it's the definitive history of the events which led to the Mayo players demanding that Holmes and Connelly be sacked at the end of the 2015 GAA season.
Their account makes it obvious that certain players had problems with the management from the get-go and were keen to seek confrontation at every opportunity. On this reading the player revolt was merely the culmination of something which had been brewing from the very beginning.
Why? Holmes and Connelly believe it arises from an unwillingness on the part of the players to take responsibility for their part in the team's persistent failure in big matches. They note that when, after taking over, they asked senior players why they felt Mayo had come up short in recent seasons. The players, "told us match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was poor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they had turned over the ball too easily."
Holmes and Connelly observe that this meant the players were largely blaming "factors outside their control" for their underachievement. In fact, they were implicitly blaming the management of James Horan, something which seems to give the lie to the argument that player objections to the new duo were founded on a perception that there had been a drop-off in standards since Horan's time.
On one level this is an unlovely saga. The player letter sent to the Mayo County Board is an unpleasant mixture of self-praise - "We the players have set extremely high standards in the context of our individual and collective approach . . . The experience and knowledge gained by the players . . . will be an invaluable asset to the County Board teams" - and veiled threat: "We wish to avoid making the resolution of these issues any more public or rancorous than it needs to be and we encourage the County Board to try and deal with this matter in private and not in the public arena." This request that the stab in the back be carried out in the dark rather than the daylight is not much of a tribute to the characters of the people who signed the letter.
Yet the story is not without its comic elements. Only the most stony of heart could suppress a giggle at the pettiness of some of the complaints levelled against Connelly and Holmes by the players during their reign. The player who complained because the bus had gone through a small town in Donegal rather than round it on the way to a game in Derry, the complaints about being 15 minutes later than usual to the dressing room because of a Mass, Aidan O'Shea complaining because he wasn't allowed to appear in a reality TV show. They're funny in the way that prima donna complaints always are.
And the element of tragedy? Well, Holmes and Connelly reveal that Seamus O'Shea demanded that his clubmate Rob Hennelly be picked in goal ahead of David Clarke because O'Shea preferred his kick-outs. They quite rightly told O'Shea that his job was to play and theirs was to manage.
A year later and Hennelly was picked ahead of Clarke for the All-Ireland final replay, a decision which struck most people as mysterious but which was justified on the grounds that the Breaffy man had a better kick-out. The decision by new manager Stephen Rochford turned out be the one which cost Mayo the All-Ireland. We have no way of knowing whether O'Shea repeated his preference for Hennelly to the new manager or whether it would have swayed Rochford if he had done. Yet one solution to the biggest mystery of the Mayo football year certainly seems to suggest itself.
It would be a bitter irony that players who had blamed defeats on their previous management teams ended up being deprived of the ultimate honour because of a terrible miscalculation perpetrated by the manager they'd chosen themselves.
Another great Mayo mystery has been the consistent underperformance of Aidan O'Shea in big games. Despite a massive reputation and undoubted talent he has been utterly peripheral in four All-Ireland finals. A possible solution to that mystery also seems to be vouchsafed by the Holmes-Connelly revelations.
Whether giving out because he wasn't let train with Sunderland or spearheading a complaint about the exclusion of a player from the panel of 26, O'Shea does seem overly keen on the kind of distractions which can prevent a player from fulfilling his potential. The former managers' comment about the number of Twitter followers mattering less than the number of All-Ireland medals may not be expressly aimed at the Breaffy player but people will draw their own conclusions.
Holmes and Connelly believe that the egocentricity of certain players is preventing Mayo from taking the final step towards All-Ireland glory. It's certainly true that Mayo 2016 were strikingly similar to Mayo 2015 and 2014. They did make the All-Ireland final but this was largely because Tipperary were their semi-final opponents. Against Dublin in the decider their performances were the same as they had been in the 2015 and 2014 semis against Kerry and the Dubs, drawing the first game and squandering a winning position in the second. For the third time in five years they lost an All-Ireland final. Whoever is in charge you get roughly the same level of performance from the Mayo players.
This tends to be a very good level of performance. That Mayo team is as gutsy and hard-working as any team in Irish sport. They can never be faulted for their commitment. Yet something is missing. And perhaps that something is an inability to fully face up to the pain of defeat.
Last year's coup could be seen as something which prevented them from having to spend a bitter winter answering the hard questions from their supporters. You saw the same thing at work on an individual level this year when, with the final barely over, Rob Hennelly was tweeting about his indomitable spirit and determination to bounce back when he might have spent more time thinking about the mistake which had cost his team the All-Ireland title they fervently desire. Aidan O'Shea and Lee Keegan were also quick to take to Twitter in a way which would have been unthinkable from Kerry or Kilkenny players.
Darragh ó Sé has written very well on the painful times Kerry players go through when they underperform and the recriminations they have to cope with. It sounds unpleasant yet perhaps it's something which is necessary if teams are to drive themselves on to success. Mayo's players seem somehow unwilling to undergo the requisite process of painful personal inventory. Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly's revelations, in an honest interview with an excellent journalist, reveal the extent to which for the Mayo players the buck always stops with someone else.
Invoking the 'they're only amateurs' excuse won't wash. Holmes and Connelly were amateurs too but the players had few qualms about publicly humiliating them. They deserved to have their say, not least because when the inevitable self-justifying autobiography is published by a Mayo player, some more accusations will no doubt be rolled out. Tom Cunniffe's recent public contrition about the treatment of the two men may well be genuine but it does smack a bit of wanting things both ways. Self-exculpating statements from the players are no doubt in the pipeline. They may even in their heart of hearts welcome the controversy as another distraction from the one fact about Mayo football which really matters. That fact is that they are fine footballers but they are also failures.
Not by the standards of almost every other football team in the country but by the "extremely high standards", which, in their letter of no confidence in Connelly and Holmes, the players said they set for themselves. Deep down they know that.
There's a curse on Mayo football all right. But you can't blame the Church for this one
Quote from: INDIANA on December 18, 2016, 02:35:04 PM
Extraordinary article yesterday.
Especially since we now know the players have final say on the goal- keeping selection.
Hard to believe David Clarke has gone back
Never let the facts ever get in the way of anything you post.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 18, 2016, 02:09:34 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 18, 2016, 01:23:08 PM
No, it was one of the players who left the plans behind, not them.
No, that's what the two lads are saying now but when the controversy about the demand for their resignation broke, what was reported and unchallenged was that the two managers had left their own plans behind them.
Now, I can't say what really happened as only those directly involved know the truth. What I've said is what I read- no more and no less.
But it's kinda strange that the players would have made an issue out of this if it had been one of their own that forget his instructions.
Why would the players blame H&C for anything that wasn't their fault?
And, while I'm at it, what player ever needed to have his instructions about what to do on the field of play written down and handed to him.
This is what I was talking about before. Leaks about shite like instrutions, rumblings of discontent, subtle digs that can only have come from one source. The players were on the offensive against the two managers long before this interview. They chose the best possible time for Mayo to air what was a shameful episode for Mayo football. They have every right to their say because their reputations are now dirt in their own county because of the revolt. They don't deserve that.
If the county takes on board the lessons that can be learnt it will be better for it. If not..
AOS not coming out of this well. Pretty obvious he has too much to say and might be better focusing on his own game. Eamon Sweeney hit the nail on the head when he pointed out OS had contributed very little in the four finals....in fact he was very wasteful on too many occasions to the detriment of his team.
Football has changed. It's almost all a running game now and about total possession at all costs. AOS is neither a footballer or a runner. Kevin Mc Loughlin worth would be greater in terms of overall contribution.
AOS is a superb fielder but unless the new rule change regarding the mark means kickouts will start going back into that territory, the Mc Loughlins of this world will be much more suitable to the game going fwd than the likes of AOS.
Messi isn't that big.....
(http://pat%20holmes%20and%20noel%20connelly's%20revelations,%20in%20an%20honest%20inteview%20with%20an%20excellent%20journalist,)
Martin Breheny a excellent journalist? what next to be told Joe Brolly is a excellent columnist :D
If Bernard Brogan emailed Jim Gavin or the Gooch to Fitzmaurice expressing surprise at a players exclusion from the match day 26 would you say they'd do it a second time?
What did the rest of the high performance environment think of Big Aido fecking off to the States to do a reality TV show in the middle of the National league?
The worst thing is that I have better things to do my time. But, you know how it is. Let's look a little more closely at the Sweeney piece.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Martin Breheny's interview in the Irish Independent with Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly is probably the Irish sports scoop of the year. It's certainly one of the most fascinating and revealing insights into the inner workings of a GAA team you're likely to read.
In old-style journalism, a scoop was the notion getting a story ahead of your rivals. So, for this to be a scoop means that your rivals are eager to publish it and the news is hard to obtain in the first place. Exactly how many sports editors rent their garments when they saw Breheny had Connelly/Holmes story? Not many, I would guess.
Also, a scoop is remnant of a bygone age. There are no scoops anymore, because stories are copied with impunity in the information age.
As for one of the most fascinating and revealing insights into the inner workings of a GAA team, can I suggest Michael Foley's
Kings of September, or Jim McGuinness's
Until Victory Always or Denis Walsh's
Hurling: The Revolution Years? They were pretty fascinating and revealing insights into the inner workings of a GAA team. You can give
The Road to Croker a skip though.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
While it might be pushing it a bit to describe the interview as Shakespearean there's no denying that it contains copious elements of history, comedy and tragedy. First and foremost, it's the definitive history of the events which led to the Mayo players demanding that Holmes and Connelly be sacked at the end of the 2015 GAA season.
No. One side of the story can never be a definitive history. That's just rubbish.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Their account makes it obvious that certain players had problems with the management from the get-go and were keen to seek confrontation at every opportunity. On this reading the player revolt was merely the culmination of something which had been brewing from the very beginning.
Correct. But why, Eamon, why?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Why? Holmes and Connelly believe it arises from an unwillingness on the part of the players to take responsibility for their part in the team's persistent failure in big matches. They note that when, after taking over, they asked senior players why they felt Mayo had come up short in recent seasons. The players, "told us match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was poor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they had turned over the ball too easily."
Incorrect. Note, by the way, how Sweeney hedges by saying "Holmes and Connelly" believe. If this were a definitive history, he would start that sentence with "It arises from..." But he knows full well this isn't definitive, so he hedges.
As for the resistance to Holmes and Connelly, I'd agree that arose from the get-go alright. A writer of a definitive history of what happened might pick up the phone and find out if anything unusual happened in the appointment process that may have caused that initial reluctance to believe in Pat and Noel but hey - facts, schmacts, as the US President-Elect might say.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Holmes and Connelly observe that this meant the players were largely blaming "factors outside their control" for their underachievement. In fact, they were implicitly blaming the management of James Horan, something which seems to give the lie to the argument that player objections to the new duo were founded on a perception that there had been a drop-off in standards since Horan's time.
So, the players blamed Pat and Noel because subconsciously they thought it was all Horan's fault? But of course! Why, it's obvious, really.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
On one level this is an unlovely saga. The player letter sent to the Mayo County Board is an unpleasant mixture of self-praise - "We the players have set extremely high standards in the context of our individual and collective approach . . . The experience and knowledge gained by the players . . . will be an invaluable asset to the County Board teams" - and veiled threat: "We wish to avoid making the resolution of these issues any more public or rancorous than it needs to be and we encourage the County Board to try and deal with this matter in private and not in the public arena." This request that the stab in the back be carried out in the dark rather than the daylight is not much of a tribute to the characters of the people who signed the letter.
There's no nice way to write a Dear John letter. It should be pointed out that Eamon's belief in washing dirty linen in public, rather than private, is a position not in line with general thinking.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Yet the story is not without its comic elements. Only the most stony of heart could suppress a giggle at the pettiness of some of the complaints levelled against Connelly and Holmes by the players during their reign. The player who complained because the bus had gone through a small town in Donegal rather than round it on the way to a game in Derry, the complaints about being 15 minutes later than usual to the dressing room because of a Mass, Aidan O'Shea complaining because he wasn't allowed to appear in a reality TV show. They're funny in the way that prima donna complaints always are.
Of course, if you're listing player complaints you'll only list the complaints that paint the players in the worst possible light. If Brian McDonald had spoken to the press in 1992 I'm sure player complaints about pushing cars in training or hooters blasted in your lug wouldn't have been mentioned, but arguments about team selection would. Again; we're only getting one side a complex story here, and a complex story that does not, and can not, have a happy ending. The only reason I'm commenting on all this is that people taking free and lazy shots at Mayo grinds my gears.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
And the element of tragedy? Well, Holmes and Connelly reveal that Seamus O'Shea demanded that his clubmate Rob Hennelly be picked in goal ahead of David Clarke because O'Shea preferred his kick-outs. They quite rightly told O'Shea that his job was to play and theirs was to manage.
A year later and Hennelly was picked ahead of Clarke for the All-Ireland final replay, a decision which struck most people as mysterious but which was justified on the grounds that the Breaffy man had a better kick-out. The decision by new manager Stephen Rochford turned out be the one which cost Mayo the All-Ireland. We have no way of knowing whether O'Shea repeated his preference for Hennelly to the new manager or whether it would have swayed Rochford if he had done. Yet one solution to the biggest mystery of the Mayo football year certainly seems to suggest itself.
Aleppo is a tragedy. Football is a game.
I think the decision to drop Clarke for Hennelly was the wrong one, but you can't say that decision alone cost Mayo the game. Dublin responded better after the drawn game. Maybe they should be given some credit for that?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
It would be a bitter irony that players who had blamed defeats on their previous management teams ended up being deprived of the ultimate honour because of a terrible miscalculation perpetrated by the manager they'd chosen themselves.
Now I could be wrong, but I'd say Rochford was the players' third choice. Sssh!
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Another great Mayo mystery has been the consistent underperformance of Aidan O'Shea in big games. Despite a massive reputation and undoubted talent he has been utterly peripheral in four All-Ireland finals. A possible solution to that mystery also seems to be vouchsafed by the Holmes-Connelly revelations.
Whether giving out because he wasn't let train with Sunderland or spearheading a complaint about the exclusion of a player from the panel of 26, O'Shea does seem overly keen on the kind of distractions which can prevent a player from fulfilling his potential. The former managers' comment about the number of Twitter followers mattering less than the number of All-Ireland medals may not be expressly aimed at the Breaffy player but people will draw their own conclusions.
The big games argument is like the natural scoring forward argument. Mayo never have a natural scoring forward until they do. Aidan O'Shea never turns it on in a big game until he does. I look forward to the day when Mayo are next in an All-Ireland final and the opposing coach says "look lads, this game is 15-on-14. That Aidan O'Shea might as well at home, tweeting and pulling his wire." God, I hope I can score a ticket for that one.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Holmes and Connelly believe that the egocentricity of certain players is preventing Mayo from taking the final step towards All-Ireland glory. It's certainly true that Mayo 2016 were strikingly similar to Mayo 2015 and 2014. They did make the All-Ireland final but this was largely because Tipperary were their semi-final opponents. Against Dublin in the decider their performances were the same as they had been in the 2015 and 2014 semis against Kerry and the Dubs, drawing the first game and squandering a winning position in the second. For the third time in five years they lost an All-Ireland final. Whoever is in charge you get roughly the same level of performance from the Mayo players.
"Roughly the same level of performance" sounds like a bowl of cold gruel, doesn't it? Football in August for six years straight is beyond the wildest dream of three-quarters of the country. Oh but that's me making excuses again, isn't it? Sorry boys. Excuse me while I flagellate myself.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
This tends to be a very good level of performance. That Mayo team is as gutsy and hard-working as any team in Irish sport. They can never be faulted for their commitment. Yet something is missing. And perhaps that something is an inability to fully face up to the pain of defeat.
Last year's coup could be seen as something which prevented them from having to spend a bitter winter answering the hard questions from their supporters. You saw the same thing at work on an individual level this year when, with the final barely over, Rob Hennelly was tweeting about his indomitable spirit and determination to bounce back when he might have spent more time thinking about the mistake which had cost his team the All-Ireland title they fervently desire. Aidan O'Shea and Lee Keegan were also quick to take to Twitter in a way which would have been unthinkable from Kerry or Kilkenny players.
Eamon made a reference to Shakespeare earlier. I don't know if he's seen or read King Lear, but if he did he may discover that what people say doesn't always express their actual feelings. It's a wild theory but, you know, it was him that brought up Shakespeare in the first place. Fly from the kitchen if thou canst not take the heat.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Darragh ó Sé has written very well on the painful times Kerry players go through when they underperform and the recriminations they have to cope with. It sounds unpleasant yet perhaps it's something which is necessary if teams are to drive themselves on to success.
Oh thank God. Something practical at last. Reader, has your county been under-performing? Play your part by making sure to give a countyman a bollocking over his shooting, tackling or some other thing anytime you meet him on the street, and keep the mincing little pansy in his place.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Mayo's players seem somehow unwilling to undergo the requisite process of painful personal inventory. Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly's revelations, in an honest interview with an excellent journalist, reveal the extent to which for the Mayo players the buck always stops with someone else.
Invoking the 'they're only amateurs' excuse won't wash. Holmes and Connelly were amateurs too but the players had few qualms about publicly humiliating them. They deserved to have their say, not least because when the inevitable self-justifying autobiography is published by a Mayo player, some more accusations will no doubt be rolled out.
"reveal the extent to which for the Mayo players the buck always stops" is a painful construction. The subs should have caught that rascal - if the Indo has any subs left, of course.
I don't know any auto-biography is inevitable from anyone on the team. I would say Eamon would bite the hand off any of them if he were asked to ghost it though.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Tom Cunniffe's recent public contrition about the treatment of the two men may well be genuine but it does smack a bit of wanting things both ways. Self-exculpating statements from the players are no doubt in the pipeline.
No more than the auto-biographies, I don't see any self-exculpating statements from the players. Not least as I had to look up "exculpating" in the dictionary myself, so I doubt any of the lads have a bog clue what it means either. *
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 18, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
They may even in their heart of hearts welcome the controversy as another distraction from the one fact about Mayo football which really matters. That fact is that they are fine footballers but they are also failures.
Not by the standards of almost every other football team in the country but by the "extremely high standards", which, in their letter of no confidence in Connelly and Holmes, the players said they set for themselves. Deep down they know that.
There's a curse on Mayo football all right. But you can't blame the Church for this one
Well, if the Palm Sunday Mass hadn't been late then the feed wouldn't have been late, and if the feed hadn't been late the boys would have been in better temper eating it, and if the boys had been in better temper eating it maybe they would have got on better and if they'd got on better maybe Lee Keegan would have hit that shot a little better and if Lee Keegan had hit that shot a little better Mayo could have gone on to win Sam. So it is the church's fault, clearly and obviously. Somebody give Bishop Brennan another kick up the arse there.
We're all failures until we're winners Eamon. Let's see what 2017 brings.
* Exculpate. To show or declare to be not-guilty of wrong-doing. 17th century origin, from medieval Latin
exculpare, to free from blame, itself from
ex, out, or from, and
culpa, blame. OED.
I'll just respond to this idea you and a few other Mayo people are pushing that this isn't a scoop or it isn't anything worth talking about, Iolar. I'm pretty sure every sports editor on every sports website or paper in the country would have loved to have the story Breheny got yesterday. The response here alone is testament to the fact it has a lot of interest in the wider GAA community, and indeed in Mayo because it involves the flagship sports team of the county and comments by people who were managing it 12 months ago cannot simply be wrote off as ill-informed or rumour.
Like it or lump it, this is one of the few bits of mainstream GAA journalism that actually shines a new light on an exsisting story. I'd hope for more of this in the future from the Independent and other outlets, even if the target ends up being my own county at some point. Engaging stories are exactly what makes the GAA so endlessly interesting. It's too rare that people talk frankly in this sport.
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:02:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
For all the people saying, "Why didn't they say all this a year ago?", would that have been preferable?
Seems to me they didn't want to disrupt the preparation for 2016.
This is the right time to say it, if you're going to say it at all.
There was no proper preparation for 2015 because of the shambolic appointment process by the County Board.
The 'not saying it a year ago argument' because it would disrupt the preparation for 2016, is exactly the same as doing it now and disrupting 2017.
'Outside influences' seems to me to mean former management.
Losing the dressing room is usually rarely unanimous but almost always fatal for a management.
So the question regarding all of this is: Qui Bono?
I disagree.
Rochford has a year under his belt and no one will even remember this by the time the NFL starts.
Well I'm writing down ideas for some abuse to roar based on the contents of the article, actually.
You're lucky it came out Dec 2016, a year later and you wouldn't get to use it in the NFL
For what its worth, H&C say this piece is for the good of Mayo football, its quiet clearly not, its for them to get their side of the story out, I've lost all respect for them. Nothing good can come out of this for us.
A couple of points
- AOS emailed about a player being left off the 26, why is this a surprise? In any line of work a senior person can question the reasoning behind a decision, he did it in a private manner. The key word being private - hardly the work of someone looking to outset the applecart
- SOS wanted RH instead of DC because of his kick outs,why is this a surprise? The goalie has a huge impact on how a midfielder plays, you'd expect them to have an opinion and voice it. Players can push for other players to play because they have legitimate reasons and think its for the good of the team. I would expect senior players to voice those opinions.
- Dillon was upset at being dropped, why is this a surprise? And spoke to H&C, presumably confidentially, to have himself back no the team. Do H&C think leaking that will do mayo good in the long run? Or will it cause a division between two friends?
- Mayo have a core group of strong minded players, why is this a surprise? Every county does, every successful team does. Do you think Heaslip, Sexton, Best and Murray don't voice their opinions? What about Keane or Vieria? Kavanagh, Michael Murphy, Marc and Thomas?
The whole article is nonsense
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on December 18, 2016, 06:35:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:02:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
For all the people saying, "Why didn't they say all this a year ago?", would that have been preferable?
Seems to me they didn't want to disrupt the preparation for 2016.
This is the right time to say it, if you're going to say it at all.
There was no proper preparation for 2015 because of the shambolic appointment process by the County Board.
The 'not saying it a year ago argument' because it would disrupt the preparation for 2016, is exactly the same as doing it now and disrupting 2017.
'Outside influences' seems to me to mean former management.
Losing the dressing room is usually rarely unanimous but almost always fatal for a management.
So the question regarding all of this is: Qui Bono?
I disagree.
Rochford has a year under his belt and no one will even remember this by the time the NFL starts.
Well I'm writing down ideas for some abuse to roar based on the contents of the article, actually.
You're lucky it came out Dec 2016, a year later and you wouldn't get to use it in the NFL
For what its worth, H&C say this piece is for the good of Mayo football, its quiet clearly not, its for them to get their side of the story out, I've lost all respect for them. Nothing good can come out of this for us.
A couple of points
- AOS emailed about a player being left off the 26, why is this a surprise? In any line of work a senior person can question the reasoning behind a decision, he did it in a private manner. The key word being private - hardly the work of someone looking to outset the applecart
- SOS wanted RH instead of DC because of his kick outs,why is this a surprise? The goalie has a huge impact on how a midfielder plays, you'd expect them to have an opinion and voice it. Players can push for other players to play because they have legitimate reasons and think its for the good of the team. I would expect senior players to voice those opinions.
- Dillon was upset at being dropped, why is this a surprise? And spoke to H&C, presumably confidentially, to have himself back no the team. Do H&C think leaking that will do mayo good in the long run? Or will it cause a division between two friends?
- Mayo have a core group of strong minded players, why is this a surprise? Every county does, every successful team does. Do you think Heaslip, Sexton, Best and Murray don't voice their opinions? What about Keane or Vieria? Kavanagh, Michael Murphy, Marc and Thomas?
The whole article is nonsense
Jesus ye haven't high hopes for 2016 so.
I find the outright defence by the Mayo fans towards their players baffling.
They threw their management team under a bus because they were unwilling to take responsibility for the mistakes they made, it's clear that there are a few big players in their side who have an adverse influence on things which doesn't bode well. I'd thought some Mayo people might have a bit more respect for Holmes and Connelly than they seem to have.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on December 18, 2016, 06:35:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2016, 02:02:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 17, 2016, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 17, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
For all the people saying, "Why didn't they say all this a year ago?", would that have been preferable?
Seems to me they didn't want to disrupt the preparation for 2016.
This is the right time to say it, if you're going to say it at all.
There was no proper preparation for 2015 because of the shambolic appointment process by the County Board.
The 'not saying it a year ago argument' because it would disrupt the preparation for 2016, is exactly the same as doing it now and disrupting 2017.
'Outside influences' seems to me to mean former management.
Losing the dressing room is usually rarely unanimous but almost always fatal for a management.
So the question regarding all of this is: Qui Bono?
I disagree.
Rochford has a year under his belt and no one will even remember this by the time the NFL starts.
Well I'm writing down ideas for some abuse to roar based on the contents of the article, actually.
You're lucky it came out Dec 2016, a year later and you wouldn't get to use it in the NFL
For what its worth, H&C say this piece is for the good of Mayo football, its quiet clearly not, its for them to get their side of the story out, I've lost all respect for them. Nothing good can come out of this for us.
A couple of points
- AOS emailed about a player being left off the 26, why is this a surprise? In any line of work a senior person can question the reasoning behind a decision, he did it in a private manner. The key word being private - hardly the work of someone looking to outset the applecart
- SOS wanted RH instead of DC because of his kick outs,why is this a surprise? The goalie has a huge impact on how a midfielder plays, you'd expect them to have an opinion and voice it. Players can push for other players to play because they have legitimate reasons and think its for the good of the team. I would expect senior players to voice those opinions.
- Dillon was upset at being dropped, why is this a surprise? And spoke to H&C, presumably confidentially, to have himself back no the team. Do H&C think leaking that will do mayo good in the long run? Or will it cause a division between two friends?
- Mayo have a core group of strong minded players, why is this a surprise? Every county does, every successful team does. Do you think Heaslip, Sexton, Best and Murray don't voice their opinions? What about Keane or Vieria? Kavanagh, Michael Murphy, Marc and Thomas?
The whole article is nonsense
You lost all respect for Holmes and Connelly?
Have you any respect for the group of players who undermined their management team and forced them out or did they lose that with their actions?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 06:42:46 PM
I find the outright defence by the Mayo fans towards their players baffling.
They threw their management team under a bus because they were unwilling to take responsibility for the mistakes they made, it's clear that there are a few big players in their side who have an adverse influence on things which doesn't bode well. I'd thought some Mayo people might have a bit more respect for Holmes and Connelly than they seem to have.
Why would you think that?
Could it be that Mayo fans know a lot more of the background to what happened than you do and that you appear to believe everything that Breheny came out with, whether it made sense or not?
Well there it is for all to see. Finally the dynamic duo have their say. Its now clear all the petty rumours about who was picking the team which we have been subjected to this year have been coming from these two great Mayo men who by all accounts only have the interests of Mayo football at heart
There are a few real nuggets in this and to be honest after reading, it reaffirmed my opinion that these two bluffers had to go.
A look at some of the gems.
"They recall how one player stood up at a meeting a few months into 2015 and said, "These fellas don't think we're good enough", which elicited a response from another: "Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now"
I don't really know what they are trying to say here but what Id love to know is, if they felt so aggrieved with this comment that they had to bring it up 2 years later, what did they actually do at the time. Was he dropped, cut from the panel, spoken to or as I suspect none of the above. You see lads ye were the managers. You have to take some responsibility. If ye hadn't the balls to deal with this early on you cant expect people to have sympathy when you start whinging about it 2 years later
As for the comments about Seamie O'Shea trying to influence the goalie selection. Another classic and no doubt the timing of this was perfect after this years final. But the bit I cant understand, if they had such a problem with this, why did they go and drop Clarke and replace him with Hennelly. Why were they so influenced by Seamie O'Shea back then, but all of sudden now they were telling him get on with the football.
Another one, Pat Holmes taking on the role as Aiden O'Shea's agent. This one to me is simple. If you feel so badly about it you tell O'Shea if he does the program he is no longer in your plans. Why in the name of fcuk would you be ringing up the producer of the program to tell him not to be contacting Mayo players. Of course O'Shea would be pissed of with this. Holmes oversteped the mark here. Imagine Jim Gavin ringing Supervalu to tell them stop contacting Bernard Brogan.
Aiden O'Shea's email. Again deal with it, grow a set of balls and drop him do what ever you have to do but for christ sake these two geniuses based their whole tactical plan around Aiden O'Shea in 2015 but 18 months later we hear about all these problems.
What is a shame is that when the pair decided to sit down and do this interview "in the best interests of Mayo football" that they didn't throw more light on the management selection process or maybe since they were keen to talk about fund raising that we didn't hear a bit more about the financing of McHale park.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 18, 2016, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 06:42:46 PM
I find the outright defence by the Mayo fans towards their players baffling.
They threw their management team under a bus because they were unwilling to take responsibility for the mistakes they made, it's clear that there are a few big players in their side who have an adverse influence on things which doesn't bode well. I'd thought some Mayo people might have a bit more respect for Holmes and Connelly than they seem to have.
Why would you think that?
Could it be that Mayo fans know a lot more of the background to what happened than you do and that you appear to believe everything that Breheny came out with, whether it made sense or not?
Because this group of Mayo players have now came up short under three different management teams.
They were as close under Holmes and Connelly as they were under Horan or Rochford.
Tell us what you know that we don't? Tell us what exonerates a group of players from undermining their management team and forcing the county board to remove them.
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
Well there it is for all to see. Finally the dynamic duo have their say. Its now clear all the petty rumours about who was picking the team which we have been subjected to this year have been coming from these two great Mayo men who by all accounts only have the interests of Mayo football at heart
There are a few real nuggets in this and to be honest after reading, it reaffirmed my opinion that these two bluffers had to go.
A look at some of the gems.
"They recall how one player stood up at a meeting a few months into 2015 and said, "These fellas don't think we're good enough", which elicited a response from another: "Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now"
I don't really know what they are trying to say here but what Id love to know is, if they felt so aggrieved with this comment that they had to bring it up 2 years later, what did they actually do at the time. Was he dropped, cut from the panel, spoken to or as I suspect none of the above. You see lads ye were the managers. You have to take some responsibility. If ye hadn't the balls to deal with this early on you cant expect people to have sympathy when you start whinging about it 2 years later
As for the comments about Seamie O'Shea trying to influence the goalie selection. Another classic and no doubt the timing of this was perfect after this years final. But the bit I cant understand, if they had such a problem with this, why did they go and drop Clarke and replace him with Hennelly. Why were they so influenced by Seamie O'Shea back then, but all of sudden now they were telling him get on with the football.
Another one, Pat Holmes taking on the role as Aiden O'Shea's agent. This one to me is simple. If you feel so badly about it you tell O'Shea if he does the program he is no longer in your plans. Why in the name of fcuk would you be ringing up the producer of the program to tell him not to be contacting Mayo players. Of course O'Shea would be pissed of with this. Holmes oversteped the mark here. Imagine Jim Gavin ringing Supervalu to tell them stop contacting Bernard Brogan.
Aiden O'Shea's email. Again deal with it, grow a set of balls and drop him do what ever you have to do but for christ sake these two geniuses based their whole tactical plan around Aiden O'Shea in 2015 but 18 months later we hear about all these problems.
What is a shame is that when the pair decided to sit down and do this interview "in the best interests of Mayo football" that they didn't throw more light on the management selection process or maybe since they were keen to talk about fund raising that we didn't hear a bit more about the financing of McHale park.
So the O'Sheas are blameless?
Good post Criostlann but H and C did not drop Clarke.He got injured in the 1st half of the QF and was replaced by Hennelly at HT.I do not think they wanted Hennelly next or near the goalkeeping position but they had no choice to put him in when Clarke got hurt
Quote from: maigheo on December 18, 2016, 07:11:05 PM
Good post Criostlann but H and C did not drop Clarke.He got injured in the 1st half of the QF and was replaced by Hennelly at HT.I do not think they wanted Hennelly next or near the goalkeeping position but they had no choice to put him in when Clarke got hurt
He got injured alright against Donegal but recovered for teh Semi. He was named to start against Dublin but was replaced just before kick off but you can trust me on this, he was 100% fit.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
Well there it is for all to see. Finally the dynamic duo have their say. Its now clear all the petty rumours about who was picking the team which we have been subjected to this year have been coming from these two great Mayo men who by all accounts only have the interests of Mayo football at heart
There are a few real nuggets in this and to be honest after reading, it reaffirmed my opinion that these two bluffers had to go.
A look at some of the gems.
"They recall how one player stood up at a meeting a few months into 2015 and said, "These fellas don't think we're good enough", which elicited a response from another: "Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now"
I don't really know what they are trying to say here but what Id love to know is, if they felt so aggrieved with this comment that they had to bring it up 2 years later, what did they actually do at the time. Was he dropped, cut from the panel, spoken to or as I suspect none of the above. You see lads ye were the managers. You have to take some responsibility. If ye hadn't the balls to deal with this early on you cant expect people to have sympathy when you start whinging about it 2 years later
As for the comments about Seamie O'Shea trying to influence the goalie selection. Another classic and no doubt the timing of this was perfect after this years final. But the bit I cant understand, if they had such a problem with this, why did they go and drop Clarke and replace him with Hennelly. Why were they so influenced by Seamie O'Shea back then, but all of sudden now they were telling him get on with the football.
Another one, Pat Holmes taking on the role as Aiden O'Shea's agent. This one to me is simple. If you feel so badly about it you tell O'Shea if he does the program he is no longer in your plans. Why in the name of fcuk would you be ringing up the producer of the program to tell him not to be contacting Mayo players. Of course O'Shea would be pissed of with this. Holmes oversteped the mark here. Imagine Jim Gavin ringing Supervalu to tell them stop contacting Bernard Brogan.
Aiden O'Shea's email. Again deal with it, grow a set of balls and drop him do what ever you have to do but for christ sake these two geniuses based their whole tactical plan around Aiden O'Shea in 2015 but 18 months later we hear about all these problems.
What is a shame is that when the pair decided to sit down and do this interview "in the best interests of Mayo football" that they didn't throw more light on the management selection process or maybe since they were keen to talk about fund raising that we didn't hear a bit more about the financing of McHale park.
So the O'Sheas are blameless?
Blameless of what. If they are causing all these problems that H&C are now trying to say they were, why didn't they deal with it at the time.
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
Well there it is for all to see. Finally the dynamic duo have their say. Its now clear all the petty rumours about who was picking the team which we have been subjected to this year have been coming from these two great Mayo men who by all accounts only have the interests of Mayo football at heart
There are a few real nuggets in this and to be honest after reading, it reaffirmed my opinion that these two bluffers had to go.
A look at some of the gems.
"They recall how one player stood up at a meeting a few months into 2015 and said, "These fellas don't think we're good enough", which elicited a response from another: "Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now"
I don't really know what they are trying to say here but what Id love to know is, if they felt so aggrieved with this comment that they had to bring it up 2 years later, what did they actually do at the time. Was he dropped, cut from the panel, spoken to or as I suspect none of the above. You see lads ye were the managers. You have to take some responsibility. If ye hadn't the balls to deal with this early on you cant expect people to have sympathy when you start whinging about it 2 years later
As for the comments about Seamie O'Shea trying to influence the goalie selection. Another classic and no doubt the timing of this was perfect after this years final. But the bit I cant understand, if they had such a problem with this, why did they go and drop Clarke and replace him with Hennelly. Why were they so influenced by Seamie O'Shea back then, but all of sudden now they were telling him get on with the football.
Another one, Pat Holmes taking on the role as Aiden O'Shea's agent. This one to me is simple. If you feel so badly about it you tell O'Shea if he does the program he is no longer in your plans. Why in the name of fcuk would you be ringing up the producer of the program to tell him not to be contacting Mayo players. Of course O'Shea would be pissed of with this. Holmes oversteped the mark here. Imagine Jim Gavin ringing Supervalu to tell them stop contacting Bernard Brogan.
Aiden O'Shea's email. Again deal with it, grow a set of balls and drop him do what ever you have to do but for christ sake these two geniuses based their whole tactical plan around Aiden O'Shea in 2015 but 18 months later we hear about all these problems.
What is a shame is that when the pair decided to sit down and do this interview "in the best interests of Mayo football" that they didn't throw more light on the management selection process or maybe since they were keen to talk about fund raising that we didn't hear a bit more about the financing of McHale park.
Why do the O se's have such power? I've been curious.
Two very average players. Neither would start for Dublin for example.
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:20:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
Well there it is for all to see. Finally the dynamic duo have their say. Its now clear all the petty rumours about who was picking the team which we have been subjected to this year have been coming from these two great Mayo men who by all accounts only have the interests of Mayo football at heart
There are a few real nuggets in this and to be honest after reading, it reaffirmed my opinion that these two bluffers had to go.
A look at some of the gems.
"They recall how one player stood up at a meeting a few months into 2015 and said, "These fellas don't think we're good enough", which elicited a response from another: "Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now"
I don't really know what they are trying to say here but what Id love to know is, if they felt so aggrieved with this comment that they had to bring it up 2 years later, what did they actually do at the time. Was he dropped, cut from the panel, spoken to or as I suspect none of the above. You see lads ye were the managers. You have to take some responsibility. If ye hadn't the balls to deal with this early on you cant expect people to have sympathy when you start whinging about it 2 years later
As for the comments about Seamie O'Shea trying to influence the goalie selection. Another classic and no doubt the timing of this was perfect after this years final. But the bit I cant understand, if they had such a problem with this, why did they go and drop Clarke and replace him with Hennelly. Why were they so influenced by Seamie O'Shea back then, but all of sudden now they were telling him get on with the football.
Another one, Pat Holmes taking on the role as Aiden O'Shea's agent. This one to me is simple. If you feel so badly about it you tell O'Shea if he does the program he is no longer in your plans. Why in the name of fcuk would you be ringing up the producer of the program to tell him not to be contacting Mayo players. Of course O'Shea would be pissed of with this. Holmes oversteped the mark here. Imagine Jim Gavin ringing Supervalu to tell them stop contacting Bernard Brogan.
Aiden O'Shea's email. Again deal with it, grow a set of balls and drop him do what ever you have to do but for christ sake these two geniuses based their whole tactical plan around Aiden O'Shea in 2015 but 18 months later we hear about all these problems.
What is a shame is that when the pair decided to sit down and do this interview "in the best interests of Mayo football" that they didn't throw more light on the management selection process or maybe since they were keen to talk about fund raising that we didn't hear a bit more about the financing of McHale park.
So the O'Sheas are blameless?
Blameless of what. If they are causing all these problems that H&C are now trying to say they were, why didn't they deal with it at the time.
That's not the question.
Mayo fans bizarrely seem to think that what the O'Sheas did was acceptable for senior players on a panel. I haven't hear any criticism directed towards them for what has been alleged. Bizarrely you seem to put the blame at the door of the management for this?
Why are this set of Mayo players beyond criticism?
Do you blame the management team for 2015? Did they deserve the chop for it?
The defence of Aidan O'Shea from Mayo posters is something Comical Ali would have been proud. This is a player who is supposed be a team leader but has gone AWOL in the 4 games against Dublin in the last 2 years.
H&C have every right to be furious at him heading over to Sunderland for some mickey mouse tv show. If a dublin player announced in the dressing room midseason he was doing it you can be sure Cluxton & Gavin would say off you go, don't come back!
The very fact mayo posters are calling the interview bulls**t because they heard different is why I imagine H&C did the interview as they heard the same rumours.
Robbie Hennelley has made major mistakes that have cost Mayo in 2013, 2015 & 2016 against Dublin yet all you hear from Mayo fans is what a great tweet after the all Ireland replay. He clearly has issues dealing with big games and I'm amazed David Clarke hasn't packed it in, especially after getting dropped for the replay. Might be better focusing on their own shortcomings
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:28:18 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:20:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
Well there it is for all to see. Finally the dynamic duo have their say. Its now clear all the petty rumours about who was picking the team which we have been subjected to this year have been coming from these two great Mayo men who by all accounts only have the interests of Mayo football at heart
There are a few real nuggets in this and to be honest after reading, it reaffirmed my opinion that these two bluffers had to go.
A look at some of the gems.
"They recall how one player stood up at a meeting a few months into 2015 and said, "These fellas don't think we're good enough", which elicited a response from another: "Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now"
I don't really know what they are trying to say here but what Id love to know is, if they felt so aggrieved with this comment that they had to bring it up 2 years later, what did they actually do at the time. Was he dropped, cut from the panel, spoken to or as I suspect none of the above. You see lads ye were the managers. You have to take some responsibility. If ye hadn't the balls to deal with this early on you cant expect people to have sympathy when you start whinging about it 2 years later
As for the comments about Seamie O'Shea trying to influence the goalie selection. Another classic and no doubt the timing of this was perfect after this years final. But the bit I cant understand, if they had such a problem with this, why did they go and drop Clarke and replace him with Hennelly. Why were they so influenced by Seamie O'Shea back then, but all of sudden now they were telling him get on with the football.
Another one, Pat Holmes taking on the role as Aiden O'Shea's agent. This one to me is simple. If you feel so badly about it you tell O'Shea if he does the program he is no longer in your plans. Why in the name of fcuk would you be ringing up the producer of the program to tell him not to be contacting Mayo players. Of course O'Shea would be pissed of with this. Holmes oversteped the mark here. Imagine Jim Gavin ringing Supervalu to tell them stop contacting Bernard Brogan.
Aiden O'Shea's email. Again deal with it, grow a set of balls and drop him do what ever you have to do but for christ sake these two geniuses based their whole tactical plan around Aiden O'Shea in 2015 but 18 months later we hear about all these problems.
What is a shame is that when the pair decided to sit down and do this interview "in the best interests of Mayo football" that they didn't throw more light on the management selection process or maybe since they were keen to talk about fund raising that we didn't hear a bit more about the financing of McHale park.
So the O'Sheas are blameless?
Blameless of what. If they are causing all these problems that H&C are now trying to say they were, why didn't they deal with it at the time.
That's not the question.
Mayo fans bizarrely seem to think that what the O'Sheas did was acceptable for senior players on a panel. I haven't hear any criticism directed towards them for what has been alleged. Bizarrely you seem to put the blame at the door of the management for this?
Why are this set of Mayo players beyond criticism?
Do you blame the management team for 2015? Did they deserve the chop for it?
Not acceptability whatsoever.
The captain is the only player on any panel who should be discussing selection with the manager.
Do you think Jim Gavin consults his players on selection?
They would be promptly be told to f*** off
Quote from: INDIANA on December 18, 2016, 07:55:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:28:18 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:20:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
Well there it is for all to see. Finally the dynamic duo have their say. Its now clear all the petty rumours about who was picking the team which we have been subjected to this year have been coming from these two great Mayo men who by all accounts only have the interests of Mayo football at heart
There are a few real nuggets in this and to be honest after reading, it reaffirmed my opinion that these two bluffers had to go.
A look at some of the gems.
"They recall how one player stood up at a meeting a few months into 2015 and said, "These fellas don't think we're good enough", which elicited a response from another: "Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now"
I don't really know what they are trying to say here but what Id love to know is, if they felt so aggrieved with this comment that they had to bring it up 2 years later, what did they actually do at the time. Was he dropped, cut from the panel, spoken to or as I suspect none of the above. You see lads ye were the managers. You have to take some responsibility. If ye hadn't the balls to deal with this early on you cant expect people to have sympathy when you start whinging about it 2 years later
As for the comments about Seamie O'Shea trying to influence the goalie selection. Another classic and no doubt the timing of this was perfect after this years final. But the bit I cant understand, if they had such a problem with this, why did they go and drop Clarke and replace him with Hennelly. Why were they so influenced by Seamie O'Shea back then, but all of sudden now they were telling him get on with the football.
Another one, Pat Holmes taking on the role as Aiden O'Shea's agent. This one to me is simple. If you feel so badly about it you tell O'Shea if he does the program he is no longer in your plans. Why in the name of fcuk would you be ringing up the producer of the program to tell him not to be contacting Mayo players. Of course O'Shea would be pissed of with this. Holmes oversteped the mark here. Imagine Jim Gavin ringing Supervalu to tell them stop contacting Bernard Brogan.
Aiden O'Shea's email. Again deal with it, grow a set of balls and drop him do what ever you have to do but for christ sake these two geniuses based their whole tactical plan around Aiden O'Shea in 2015 but 18 months later we hear about all these problems.
What is a shame is that when the pair decided to sit down and do this interview "in the best interests of Mayo football" that they didn't throw more light on the management selection process or maybe since they were keen to talk about fund raising that we didn't hear a bit more about the financing of McHale park.
So the O'Sheas are blameless?
Blameless of what. If they are causing all these problems that H&C are now trying to say they were, why didn't they deal with it at the time.
That's not the question.
Mayo fans bizarrely seem to think that what the O'Sheas did was acceptable for senior players on a panel. I haven't hear any criticism directed towards them for what has been alleged. Bizarrely you seem to put the blame at the door of the management for this?
Why are this set of Mayo players beyond criticism?
Do you blame the management team for 2015? Did they deserve the chop for it?
Not acceptability whatsoever.
The captain is the only player on any panel who should be discussing selection with the manager.
Do you think Jim Gavin consults his players on selection?
They would be promptly be told to f*** off
Well if we are to believe whats in this article why didn't H&C tell them to fcuk off. Two options, they are exaggerating what really happened to make the players look bad or else they didn't have the balls to do it because they were out of their league.
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 08:40:44 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 18, 2016, 07:55:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:28:18 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:20:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
Well there it is for all to see. Finally the dynamic duo have their say. Its now clear all the petty rumours about who was picking the team which we have been subjected to this year have been coming from these two great Mayo men who by all accounts only have the interests of Mayo football at heart
There are a few real nuggets in this and to be honest after reading, it reaffirmed my opinion that these two bluffers had to go.
A look at some of the gems.
"They recall how one player stood up at a meeting a few months into 2015 and said, "These fellas don't think we're good enough", which elicited a response from another: "Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now"
I don't really know what they are trying to say here but what Id love to know is, if they felt so aggrieved with this comment that they had to bring it up 2 years later, what did they actually do at the time. Was he dropped, cut from the panel, spoken to or as I suspect none of the above. You see lads ye were the managers. You have to take some responsibility. If ye hadn't the balls to deal with this early on you cant expect people to have sympathy when you start whinging about it 2 years later
As for the comments about Seamie O'Shea trying to influence the goalie selection. Another classic and no doubt the timing of this was perfect after this years final. But the bit I cant understand, if they had such a problem with this, why did they go and drop Clarke and replace him with Hennelly. Why were they so influenced by Seamie O'Shea back then, but all of sudden now they were telling him get on with the football.
Another one, Pat Holmes taking on the role as Aiden O'Shea's agent. This one to me is simple. If you feel so badly about it you tell O'Shea if he does the program he is no longer in your plans. Why in the name of fcuk would you be ringing up the producer of the program to tell him not to be contacting Mayo players. Of course O'Shea would be pissed of with this. Holmes oversteped the mark here. Imagine Jim Gavin ringing Supervalu to tell them stop contacting Bernard Brogan.
Aiden O'Shea's email. Again deal with it, grow a set of balls and drop him do what ever you have to do but for christ sake these two geniuses based their whole tactical plan around Aiden O'Shea in 2015 but 18 months later we hear about all these problems.
What is a shame is that when the pair decided to sit down and do this interview "in the best interests of Mayo football" that they didn't throw more light on the management selection process or maybe since they were keen to talk about fund raising that we didn't hear a bit more about the financing of McHale park.
So the O'Sheas are blameless?
Blameless of what. If they are causing all these problems that H&C are now trying to say they were, why didn't they deal with it at the time.
That's not the question.
Mayo fans bizarrely seem to think that what the O'Sheas did was acceptable for senior players on a panel. I haven't hear any criticism directed towards them for what has been alleged. Bizarrely you seem to put the blame at the door of the management for this?
Why are this set of Mayo players beyond criticism?
Do you blame the management team for 2015? Did they deserve the chop for it?
Not acceptability whatsoever.
The captain is the only player on any panel who should be discussing selection with the manager.
Do you think Jim Gavin consults his players on selection?
They would be promptly be told to f*** off
Well if we are to believe whats in this article why didn't H&C tell them to fcuk off. Two options, they are exaggerating what really happened to make the players look bad or else they didn't have the balls to do it because they were out of their league.
But you have to accept that it feeds into why David Clarke was dropped. Certain players obviously contributed to it.
That would not be tolerated anywhere else
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 08:40:44 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 18, 2016, 07:55:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:28:18 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:20:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 18, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
Well there it is for all to see. Finally the dynamic duo have their say. Its now clear all the petty rumours about who was picking the team which we have been subjected to this year have been coming from these two great Mayo men who by all accounts only have the interests of Mayo football at heart
There are a few real nuggets in this and to be honest after reading, it reaffirmed my opinion that these two bluffers had to go.
A look at some of the gems.
"They recall how one player stood up at a meeting a few months into 2015 and said, "These fellas don't think we're good enough", which elicited a response from another: "Sure if we were, we'd have All-Ireland medals by now"
I don't really know what they are trying to say here but what Id love to know is, if they felt so aggrieved with this comment that they had to bring it up 2 years later, what did they actually do at the time. Was he dropped, cut from the panel, spoken to or as I suspect none of the above. You see lads ye were the managers. You have to take some responsibility. If ye hadn't the balls to deal with this early on you cant expect people to have sympathy when you start whinging about it 2 years later
As for the comments about Seamie O'Shea trying to influence the goalie selection. Another classic and no doubt the timing of this was perfect after this years final. But the bit I cant understand, if they had such a problem with this, why did they go and drop Clarke and replace him with Hennelly. Why were they so influenced by Seamie O'Shea back then, but all of sudden now they were telling him get on with the football.
Another one, Pat Holmes taking on the role as Aiden O'Shea's agent. This one to me is simple. If you feel so badly about it you tell O'Shea if he does the program he is no longer in your plans. Why in the name of fcuk would you be ringing up the producer of the program to tell him not to be contacting Mayo players. Of course O'Shea would be pissed of with this. Holmes oversteped the mark here. Imagine Jim Gavin ringing Supervalu to tell them stop contacting Bernard Brogan.
Aiden O'Shea's email. Again deal with it, grow a set of balls and drop him do what ever you have to do but for christ sake these two geniuses based their whole tactical plan around Aiden O'Shea in 2015 but 18 months later we hear about all these problems.
What is a shame is that when the pair decided to sit down and do this interview "in the best interests of Mayo football" that they didn't throw more light on the management selection process or maybe since they were keen to talk about fund raising that we didn't hear a bit more about the financing of McHale park.
So the O'Sheas are blameless?
Blameless of what. If they are causing all these problems that H&C are now trying to say they were, why didn't they deal with it at the time.
That's not the question.
Mayo fans bizarrely seem to think that what the O'Sheas did was acceptable for senior players on a panel. I haven't hear any criticism directed towards them for what has been alleged. Bizarrely you seem to put the blame at the door of the management for this?
Why are this set of Mayo players beyond criticism?
Do you blame the management team for 2015? Did they deserve the chop for it?
Not acceptability whatsoever.
The captain is the only player on any panel who should be discussing selection with the manager.
Do you think Jim Gavin consults his players on selection?
They would be promptly be told to f*** off
Well if we are to believe whats in this article why didn't H&C tell them to fcuk off. Two options, they are exaggerating what really happened to make the players look bad or else they didn't have the balls to do it because they were out of their league.
Once again, a complete casting aside of the conduct of the O'Sheas.
Indiana has it spot on the O'Sheas are average players at best and we must have better players in the county. Why should Connelly and Holmes take all the crap? the players had their say in secrecy at least C&H came out and spoke publicly. Some of the players should take a look at themselves and stop laying the blame elsewhere.
Is the O'Shea's father a selector with Mayo? Who was the player Aidan o'Shea was referring to in email?
Quote from: gammysolo on December 18, 2016, 10:00:01 PM
Is the O'Shea's father a selector with Mayo? Who was the player Aidan o'Shea was referring to in email?
Allegedly the youngest O'Shea
Quote from: chrissears on December 18, 2016, 09:56:19 PM
Indiana has it spot on the O'Sheas are average players at best and we must have better players in the county. Why should Connelly and Holmes take all the crap? the players had their say in secrecy at least C&H came out and spoke publicly. Some of the players should take a look at themselves and stop laying the blame elsewhere.
Agree with this. Read the interview and the players come out of it badly without hearing their side of it at least. The O sheas are good players but not that good that disruptive behaviour can be tolerated. I've been hearing rumours about them being disruptive and dictating terms for a few years now but having said that it may only be rumours. mayo people are bound to have a better idea re their personalities.
Anyone replying to Syf, Bomber, Indiana or some of the other clowns on here would want their heads examined. No problem with genuine discussion from the likes of Jinxy, heffo, etc. but you're wasting your time with trolls
The main comment I'd have on the story is that it leaves out any discussion of the most important part....the start of it. No mention of the inside job that was the appointment process.
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 18, 2016, 10:23:38 PM
Anyone replying to Syf, Bomber, Indiana or some of the other clowns on here would want their heads examined. No problem with genuine discussion from the likes of Jinxy, heffo, etc. but you're wasting your time with trolls
The main comment I'd have on the story is that it leaves out any discussion of the most important part....the start of it. No mention of the inside job that was the appointment process.
I'd like you to point out where exactly anything I said could even be classified as trolling. Total nonsense comment.
Quote from: gammysolo on December 18, 2016, 10:00:01 PM
Is the O'Shea's father a selector with Mayo? Who was the player Aidan o'Shea was referring to in email?
Any Mayo man would know the answer to that-oh i forgot ;)
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 18, 2016, 10:23:38 PM
Anyone replying to Syf, Bomber, Indiana or some of the other clowns on here would want their heads examined. No problem with genuine discussion from the likes of Jinxy, heffo, etc. but you're wasting your time with trolls
The main comment I'd have on the story is that it leaves out any discussion of the most important part....the start of it. No mention of the inside job that was the appointment process.
Correct. That was a mess and it appears that from the word go some players at least did not want them. We were also told that some players did not want the alternative at the time either, but as it turned out, the CB decided there was no alternative!
Once in situ however did H&C perform so poorly? Or was it a case of the players just not ever buying into them or believing they were good enough no matter what they tried to do? The fact that players would not agree to sit down and try to work things out with them suggests they were never really accepted because of the shenanigans around their appointment.
My guess is that they were seen as a cheap, opportunistic appointment. I have no idea who the players would have preferred to replace Horan however.
Iolar, very good post on Sweeney's article. His hypocrisy is staggering and he sticks the boot in using the half truths and innuendos that the bashers here have fleshed out in their own heads. Sweeney lambasts the players on thinking they are great, while praising his colleague for the 'scoop of the year' and a 'top journalist'.
An email expressing surprise about a single match day 26 slelction is nothing. Absolutely nothing. But people here are running away with the story and assuming it means they picked the team.
What is absolutely certain, is that if Holmes and Yoyo had been told how to pick the team, we would have read all about it yesterday.
Larnaparka, the Eugene Rooney story does not explain at all why Holmes & Connelly include it in their tell all about bashing the players. It makes no sense, unless the agenda is someone else's.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2016, 06:42:46 PM
I find the outright defence by the Mayo fans towards their players baffling.
I think supporters in general are always predisposed to back the players ahead of management no matter what. Unless it's utterly and blatantly obvious that they are in the wrong.
The interview .... not a single probing questions in the 5000 words to challenge H&C. It wasnt an interview ..... It was just a transcript. The Independent actually missed an opportunity by not asking Paul Kimmage to do it
Dillon and SoS challenging the management ...... brilliant - exactly what I would expect from an ambitious bunch of empowered players. The problem is H&C's management style is straight from the book of John Maughan - command and control, I'm the boss. What a modern day intercounty team needs (full of lads with 3rd level degrees rather than say soccer where lads more or less stop school at 15) is empowerment, responsibility, an environment where they feel they can ask questions, where the management is there to serve them on the championship journey, I.e. the exact opposite of command and control.
AOS and the TV gig ...... it didn't stop the Tipp lad winning an All-Ireland this year
Mayo people have known that the appointment was handled shambolicly, that they players handled the letter thing poorly, that H&C - while heroes in their own playing days and as u-21 managers - made mistakes and weren't really up to the job. However, for the greater good of Mayo football, we all wanted this buried and to move on. Now that they have done the article, they are forcing Mayo supporters to take a side. The problem for H&C is that no Mayo supporters will side with them as we don't want to undermine the current setup in any way or undermine our chances of victory in 2017 ..... so that means the 2 boys will be thrown under the proverbial bus.
Of course this whole bullsh*t saga will roll until the New Year because it is mana from heaven for GAA journalists at this time of year ..... but it's already yesterday's news in Mayo (take note Mayo News and Western People). Onwards and upwards - roll on the FBD
Good piece on OTB this morning with the paper review, basically stated that H&C have given a self serving article and broken player confidentiality.
The players did what they felt they had to do for their IC careers. H&C even said that some of them voted against them but were new to the panel, I'm not sure how that means they can't vote against H&C
Quote from: moysider on December 18, 2016, 11:34:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 18, 2016, 10:23:38 PM
Anyone replying to Syf, Bomber, Indiana or some of the other clowns on here would want their heads examined. No problem with genuine discussion from the likes of Jinxy, heffo, etc. but you're wasting your time with trolls
The main comment I'd have on the story is that it leaves out any discussion of the most important part....the start of it. No mention of the inside job that was the appointment process.
Correct. That was a mess and it appears that from the word go some players at least did not want them. We were also told that some players did not want the alternative at the time either, but as it turned out, the CB decided there was no alternative!
Once in situ however did H&C perform so poorly? Or was it a case of the players just not ever buying into them or believing they were good enough no matter what they tried to do? The fact that players would not agree to sit down and try to work things out with them suggests they were never really accepted because of the shenanigans around their appointment.
My guess is that they were seen as a cheap, opportunistic appointment. I have no idea who the players would have preferred to replace Horan however.
I am not a troll. I'm simply saying that yourself and a few other Mayo fans would want to grow a pair and start calling this shite out for what it is.
A= players picking teams - daft
B= players sitting with managers watching opposition teams - daft
The Sum of A+B = Mayo all ireland- less again.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 18, 2016, 11:56:22 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 18, 2016, 11:34:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 18, 2016, 10:23:38 PM
Anyone replying to Syf, Bomber, Indiana or some of the other clowns on here would want their heads examined. No problem with genuine discussion from the likes of Jinxy, heffo, etc. but you're wasting your time with trolls
The main comment I'd have on the story is that it leaves out any discussion of the most important part....the start of it. No mention of the inside job that was the appointment process.
Correct. That was a mess and it appears that from the word go some players at least did not want them. We were also told that some players did not want the alternative at the time either, but as it turned out, the CB decided there was no alternative!
Once in situ however did H&C perform so poorly? Or was it a case of the players just not ever buying into them or believing they were good enough no matter what they tried to do? The fact that players would not agree to sit down and try to work things out with them suggests they were never really accepted because of the shenanigans around their appointment.
My guess is that they were seen as a cheap, opportunistic appointment. I have no idea who the players would have preferred to replace Horan however.
I am not a troll. I'm simply saying that yourself and a few other Mayo fans would want to grow a pair and start calling this shite out for what it is.
A= players picking teams - daft
B= players sitting with managers watching opposition teams - daft
The Sum of A+B = Mayo all ireland- less again.
Never said you were a troll! maybe you should be having this row with somebody else?
I actually said that I had sympathy for H&C and how they were removed. Anybody that ever tried to manage anything would have.
Some of us knew this story was coming. During the week people I spoke to about it were saying things like 'name names, we know who they are talking about anyway'.
The thing that strikes me about this is that there is damn all to the grievances on either side but the end product is very damaging to everybody. The players grievances were vexatious and H&C don't face up to the fact that they should never have agreed to do the job - it stank of nepotism from the word go but they seem to think they were good enough to impose themselves. Joint managers is bad news anyway.
Mayo fans are not going all the one way on this. Nobody is crying out for H&C or anything but there are misgivings about possible player influence. It probably goes back to Horan's time really.
Your point A - Doubt players are picking teams. I do know fans that believe that some players are influencing some selections though. That is certainly there.
Point B. - That is not something the manager should have done. Very poor judgement and only lends credibility to the idea that some players have influence.
Quote from: muppet on December 18, 2016, 11:38:48 PM
An email expressing surprise about a single match day 26 slelction is nothing. Absolutely nothing. But people here are running away with the story and assuming it means they picked the team.
Would it happen in a successful and team if it happened once would it happen again?
Would the same team picker be let leave a panel for two weeks to go do Love Island in Dublin or Kerry? He'd be told to go enjoy himself and not come back
Quote from: INDIANA on December 18, 2016, 11:56:22 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 18, 2016, 11:34:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 18, 2016, 10:23:38 PM
Anyone replying to Syf, Bomber, Indiana or some of the other clowns on here would want their heads examined. No problem with genuine discussion from the likes of Jinxy, heffo, etc. but you're wasting your time with trolls
The main comment I'd have on the story is that it leaves out any discussion of the most important part....the start of it. No mention of the inside job that was the appointment process.
Correct. That was a mess and it appears that from the word go some players at least did not want them. We were also told that some players did not want the alternative at the time either, but as it turned out, the CB decided there was no alternative!
Once in situ however did H&C perform so poorly? Or was it a case of the players just not ever buying into them or believing they were good enough no matter what they tried to do? The fact that players would not agree to sit down and try to work things out with them suggests they were never really accepted because of the shenanigans around their appointment.
My guess is that they were seen as a cheap, opportunistic appointment. I have no idea who the players would have preferred to replace Horan however.
I am not a troll. I'm simply saying that yourself and a few other Mayo fans would want to grow a pair and start calling this shite out for what it is.
A= players picking teams - daft
B= players sitting with managers watching opposition teams - daft
The Sum of A+B = Mayo all ireland- less again.
This.
I find it baffling that Mayo fans seem to absolve guys like the O'Sheas attempting to undermine the management team and in fact blame the management for this.
I would say Sweeney''s article would put the general view of the rest of the GAA country into perspective. The Mayo players threw their management team under a bus, they tried to scapegoat them for coming up short just like they came up short the 4 years previous and the one subsequent.
There is a God like treatment of their players which you would not get anywhere else in the country I would say. You see it on TV at games in Castlebar where as soon as the final whistle goes they are mobbed by fans and kids looking for autographs. They may be one of the top teams in the country but they haven't won the big one yet and maybe it's the egotism and sense of entitlement that is preventing them - this seems to be indulged by the wider Mayo public.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on December 18, 2016, 11:55:46 PM
Good piece on OTB this morning with the paper review, basically stated that H&C have given a self serving article and broken player confidentiality.
The players did what they felt they had to do for their IC careers. H&C even said that some of them voted against them but were new to the panel, I'm not sure how that means they can't vote against H&C
The players did what they had to do?
H&C gave a self serving interview?
Has Mayo turned into North Korea?
A group of players sought to undermine the management team from the get go and then orchestrated a plan to remove them at the end of the season. And the management team don't deserve a right of reply?
The Thursday Night before the All Ireland Final a change was made to the Mayo Match Day squad. A player who was on the panel all year was suddenly removed and replaced by a man that was not seen June. At the time, I was disgusted that this be done to a new player on the panel this year, but after reading the article on Saturday I am sick to the stomach. If, as I now believe a relation intervened this was a despicable act. BTW, the player brought in played no part over the course of the two games and I believe the player they took out probably wouldnt have either.
2 years since Horan left. What has improved since then ? Or have they stagnated ?
Below he talks about the process. Pep Guardiola is a big believer in the process. Mayo lost 2 all Irelands to Dublin by one point when they scored 1-14. The process isn't good enough.
Also the Connacht rugby players
They focus on what they are good at. No Glory bursts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmpd-TxziBQ
Portumna man J Muldoon at 2 minutes
Stick with what you do best, believe in yourself believe in what we can achieve together
Mayo have a history of failure so they are more likely to have bitching and backstabbing but the thing is to get the process right and f**k the begrudgers.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/james-horan-on-his-time-at-the-helm-of-mayo-1.2010683
KD: Is part of the legacy that you left behind that losing for Mayo need not be as traumatic as has been the case?
JH: Yes. I know this idea of the process – it is something Jim McGuinness has spoken about as well . . . there are a lot of things that you look for in a game. Things you want to achieve in each game. Obviously, you do want to win but if you lose and do a lot of things right, it is a help. You are looking for more than the win. You are probably sick of me saying this but you take things from every game and you learn.
KD: So what did you as a group improve at most over four years?
JH: I think our skill level is very high. We have maybe one of the highest percentage of players who can hand-pass both sides, peripheral vision both sides and can kick with both feet. We concentrated on that for obvious reasons – it gets you out of trouble, makes you a more rounded player. I suppose our understanding of the game improved. Our tackling as a unit definitely improved.
KD: Do you remember the 2013 final against Dublin just after Andy Moran scored the goal? It seemed that Mayo were right where they wanted to be then: it was game on. It was the time for all hell to break loose in Croke Park but instead there was a definite hush in the crowd . . .
JH: I remember it. Distinctly. It was there to be taken. Look, the players on the pitch are the ones who have the direct influence. But the supporting cast, the crowd, does have a sway on things. Listen to home and away games in the Premier League . . . why does that make a difference? Because of the support and the noise. Would it have changed things that day? I dunno . . . but there was a sense of anxiety, that day, that came as opposed to taking the moment. I felt that a little bit, yeah
Is Holmes positioning himself for another club gig outside the county? Intercounty job? Interview smacks of looking after himself rather than the best interests of Mayo football.
If even half of what they're saying is true, then whether it's their genuine intention or not, they are acting in the best interests of Mayo football.
It's nothing new that managers will have rows and disagreements with individual players.
However, a small core group of dominant personalities within the playing group cannot be allowed to dictate things.
Bear in mind, we've all spent a lot of time in dressing-rooms.
Whatever was said by certain players to H&C, either in private or at team meetings, was nothing compared to what was being said about them behind their backs.
This whole thing seems to be a case of what is going on in a lot of counties in that the managers act as a great mudguard for the players. This time the two men in charge came out and called out a few things that they had to deal with.
Although I don't think it served much use as the general Mayo GAA fan, especially going by Twitter will always support their heroes, not the bolloxes on the sideline. You saw it get to ridiculous levels this year after Hennelly came in and it was all the manager's fault...
But like it or not if a man or two men come in they set the tone and it looks like H & C didn't do that. If the big names were acting up have the balls to drop the superstars. That sets the tone, but it didn't happen.
Bearing in mind HOW they came into the job, dropping high-profile players was not a realistic option.
They would have been gone before the start of the championship.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 10:02:41 AM
If even half of what they're saying is true, then whether it's their genuine intention or not, they are acting in the best interests of Mayo football.
It's nothing new that managers will have rows and disagreements with individual players.
However, a small core group of dominant personalities within the playing group cannot be allowed to dictate things.[/b
Bear in mind, we've all spent a lot of time in dressing-rooms.
Whatever was said by certain players to H&C, either in private or at team meetings, was nothing compared to what was being said about them behind their backs.
Reading the article, what is it claimed that this group dictated?
It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.
I'm well aware that in all these situations, it's invariably the case that no side is 100% right or wrong. However am I the only one reading this who thinks that a player giving his opinion on a selection issue shouldn't be a problem in and of itself?
For example, say I'm given the job of managing a club team, and a midfielder approaches me and says that he believes player X should get the starting goalkeeper slot. Now of course I'm not going to say "right so, and by the way, who should I pick for full back?" but on the other hand if the player approaches me in the right way, of course I would listen to his views, and if he offers me new information, I'll take that on board. The final call will be mine and I'll expect that to be respected of course.
Now if I go on and pick a different keeper and the player chooses to either
(1) complain publicly
(2) fail to work with the chosen starter in training and matches as he should
(3) bad mouth me or the chosen keeper in his home, place of work etc
(4) knock on my door again the following week making the same request again
then I have a problem. However at no stage is it claimed that any of this happened. If AOS asked for Hennelly, but accepted the decision of Clarke if and when it was made, well then I don't believe he's done anything wrong - and there is nothing in any of this interview to suggest that players did anything other than simply make suggestions.
Similarly with the "Toughest Trade" issue - nobody expects that players do absolutely nothing except work, eat, sleep and train. Everybody has some form of life going on. If AOS was set to miss a lot of training/games and that wasn't cleared with management, then of course there is something to address there - but you address it with the player, not the third party. Again, to go back to my club example, if I have players that have an issue with their diet, I don't ring Supermacs and ask them to cut the lads off at the source.
As I said, I'm aware that there is often more to these stories than meets the eye, but that anecdote alone suggests to me that H/C wanted to treat the lads like minor footballers, dictating their lives and accepting no discussion whatsoever, ad that was always going to be a tough sell with a mature, experienced panel like the Mayo senior football group.
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
Would agree with this. The whole concept of a team is useless if this happens.
Just to clarify, did H&C actually oblige to these requests. I was away this wknd so only catching up now, apologies if this has been asked already.
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.
Continually questioning the selection of other players and lobbying for changes at a particular position are not usual man management decisions. It's strange that Mayo supporters are so unwilling to criticize the players involved because their actions were a poor reflection of themselves and a dis-service to their county.
The easy way out is to blame the two lads not involved now and ignore the players' transgressions and it's sad to see so many take that approach. Everyone else can see through it.
Quote from: Syferus on December 19, 2016, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.
Continually questioning the selection of other players and lobbying for changes at a particular position are not usual man management decisions. It's strange that Mayo supporters are so unwilling to criticize the players involved because their actions were a poor reflection of themselves and a dis-service to their county.
The easy way out is to blame the two lads not involved now and ignore the players' transgressions and it's sad to see so many take that approach. Everyone else can see through it.
As opposed to our county where talented players opt-out of the panel because they see the less talented players picked ahead of them due to, take your pick: favouritism. Or what about the John Maughan years, players off the panel because they were over 28, or because a previous manager said they were troublemakers. There's often issues with managers (and managers of Mayo origin seem to be the worst offenders) and often times players have to speak up. Nothing wrong with it.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 10:02:41 AM
If even half of what they're saying is true, then whether it's their genuine intention or not, they are acting in the best interests of Mayo football.
It's nothing new that managers will have rows and disagreements with individual players.
However, a small core group of dominant personalities within the playing group cannot be allowed to dictate things.
Bear in mind, we've all spent a lot of time in dressing-rooms.
Whatever was said by certain players to H&C, either in private or at team meetings, was nothing compared to what was being said about them behind their backs.
First comment on this issue, but Jinxy I think your comments are very reasonable.
If anything remotely like that happens with team selection this year, then Mayo are screwed.
In fairness to Stephen Rochford, as a rookie intercounty manager he obviously felt some kind of allegiance/debt to " the so called group". His position was not made any easier by the fact that we lost to Galway in June, after which he was under enormous pressure. Btw, I thought management got a awful lot more right than wrong in 2016, I hope they will not be judged on one mistake(in hindsight a very big one mind you).
IMO, going forward the management will be judged by their selection, ability to introduce two or three new faces and their tactics going forward. An all-Ireland would be icing on the cake, but realistically with an average forward line, we will most likely struggle in that department.
At the end of the day we were unfortunately a kick of the ball away once again.
Quote from: weareros on December 19, 2016, 01:51:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 19, 2016, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.
Continually questioning the selection of other players and lobbying for changes at a particular position are not usual man management decisions. It's strange that Mayo supporters are so unwilling to criticize the players involved because their actions were a poor reflection of themselves and a dis-service to their county.
The easy way out is to blame the two lads not involved now and ignore the players' transgressions and it's sad to see so many take that approach. Everyone else can see through it.
As opposed to our county where talented players opt-out of the panel because they see the less talented players picked ahead of them due to, take your pick: favouritism. Or what about the John Maughan years, players off the panel because they were over 28, or because a previous manager said they were troublemakers. There's often issues with managers (and managers of Mayo origin seem to be the worst offenders) and often times players have to speak up. Nothing wrong with it.
You seem to have went off on an non-sequitur there.
What you're suggesting is there nothing wrong with two midfielders trying to get the goalkeeper changed. That's not their place, and when they do it multiple times clearly they do not respect the wishes of management at all. It would be like Kevin Higgins lobbying McStay for Colm Lavin to start - it's ridiculous and a symptom of a dysfunctional team.
In this case, the following manager made the exact change that the O'Sheas lobbied for in the AI final; far too coincidental to be simply wrote off as being Rochford's decision alone and it hardly seems like the Mayo players learnt lessons of humility since summer 2015 reading the letter to the CB. And that change proved to be the reason Mayo lost.
We're not talking about actions that were non-consequential here, but ones that may have been the difference between a team winning an All-Ireland or not.
Quote from: joemamas on December 19, 2016, 01:55:35 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 10:02:41 AM
If even half of what they're saying is true, then whether it's their genuine intention or not, they are acting in the best interests of Mayo football.
It's nothing new that managers will have rows and disagreements with individual players.
However, a small core group of dominant personalities within the playing group cannot be allowed to dictate things.
Bear in mind, we've all spent a lot of time in dressing-rooms.
Whatever was said by certain players to H&C, either in private or at team meetings, was nothing compared to what was being said about them behind their backs.
First comment on this issue, but Jinxy I think your comments are very reasonable.
If anything remotely like that happens with team selection this year, then Mayo are screwed.
In fairness to Stephen Rochford, as a rookie intercounty manager he obviously felt some kind of allegiance/debt to " the so called group". His position was not made any easier by the fact that we lost to Galway in June, after which he was under enormous pressure. Btw, I thought management got a awful lot more right than wrong in 2016, I hope they will not be judged on one mistake(in hindsight a very big one mind you).
IMO, going forward the management will be judged by their selection, ability to introduce two or three new faces and their tactics going forward. An all-Ireland would be icing on the cake, but realistically with an average forward line, we will most likely struggle in that department.
At the end of the day we were unfortunately a kick of the ball away once again.
I would say Rochford's position was made easier by the Galway defeat in some ways. The pressure was more on the players than him after they had ousted the previous mamangement. Defeat to Galway brought the whole setup down to earth with a crash, thus allowing him to properly grab hold of the situation.
Quote from: Syferus on December 19, 2016, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.
Continually questioning the selection of other players and lobbying for changes at a particular position are not usual man management decisions. It's strange that Mayo supporters are so unwilling to criticize the players involved because their actions were a poor reflection of themselves and a dis-service to their county.
The easy way out is to blame the two lads not involved now and ignore the players' transgressions and it's sad to see so many take that approach. Everyone else can see through it.
Can you give me a run down on the long, long list of incidents that you seem to have inside info on ?
http://i.imgur.com/CXLIc7R.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/CXLIc7R.jpg)
The players were used to having a management team on the right hand side of the mountain in Horan
Horans replacement (or at least one of the duo) was firmly on the left hand side
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
Other than an email 'expressing surprise' at a matchday 26 omission, the only question regarding selection was Seamie 'expressing a preference' for Hennelly's kickouts. Seeing as he is the one expected to win a lot of them, I don't see a problem with his 'expressing a preference' at all. If he demanded a change, then that would be different. If there was any real attempt to pick the team, I have little doubt H&C would have told us all about it.
People here are jumping from a couple of sleveen style stories with a misleading headline and interpolating that there was a bunch of egos who picked the team. Nowhere in the article does it say that.
Regarding Alan Dillon, players are always upset when they bust a gut for months and don't make the team. If they aren't, I'm not sure I'd want them in the squad personally. But that is part of management.
For H&C to single out Alan Dillon for complaining about being dropped is very low in my opinion.
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
Quote from: blast05 on December 19, 2016, 04:35:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 19, 2016, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.
Continually questioning the selection of other players and lobbying for changes at a particular position are not usual man management decisions. It's strange that Mayo supporters are so unwilling to criticize the players involved because their actions were a poor reflection of themselves and a dis-service to their county.
The easy way out is to blame the two lads not involved now and ignore the players' transgressions and it's sad to see so many take that approach. Everyone else can see through it.
Can you give me a run down on the long, long list of incidents that you seem to have inside info on ?
I can send you the Indo if you want. I doubt there's many that haven't been dumped in a bin around Breaffy anyways.
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.
In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.
Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
Now we are at the crux of the issue.
The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.
So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.
But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.
In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.
Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.
This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.
Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.
In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.
Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.
This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.
Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?
The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. That's questioning team selection in my book.
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:23:25 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
Now we are at the crux of the issue.
The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.
So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.
But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but once they're appointed, should everyone not move forward in the best interests of Mayo football?
Did the players effectively sacrifice their season as a way of sticking two fingers up to the county board?
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.
It sounds like it all boils down to players meddling above and beyond what is acceptable in team affairs. What seems obvious is that certain players threw a strop when the management team didn't go along with the players wishes and then successfully had them removed from their jobs. Do you think Holmes and Connelly were responsible for Mayo's failure in 2015?
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 04:44:54 PM
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
Other than an email 'expressing surprise' at a matchday 26 omission, the only question regarding selection was Seamie 'expressing a preference' for Hennelly's kickouts. Seeing as he is the one expected to win a lot of them, I don't see a problem with his 'expressing a preference' at all. If he demanded a change, then that would be different. If there was any real attempt to pick the team, I have little doubt H&C would have told us all about it.
People here are jumping from a couple of sleveen style stories with a misleading headline and interpolating that there was a bunch of egos who picked the team. Nowhere in the article does it say that.
Regarding Alan Dillon, players are always upset when they bust a gut for months and don't make the team. If they aren't, I'm not sure I'd want them in the squad personally. But that is part of management.
For H&C to single out Alan Dillon for complaining about being dropped is very low in my opinion.
Double standards Muppet strikes again.
On one hand you are downplaying what the O'Sheas did - they had no business telling the management team how to pick their team and neither did Alan Dillon. They also made clear reference to Dillon's attitude changing towards them once he had lost his place.
There's nothing wrong with a player being unhappy with being dropped, there is something severely wrong with a player going to a manager and telling him he should be starting ahead of a specific player.
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.
In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.
Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.
So the shambolic process presumably refers to Holmes and Connelly getting the gig because they had close linked to the County Board or something? This is the crux of Mayo fans issues with them and why they support the players because they see some sort of nepotism/old friends act.
On the other hand you have Aidan O'Shea trying to force the management team's hands to put his brother in a matchday squad and the other O'Shea trying to force the manager to put their clubmate in goal and not a dickie bird from the Mayo lads about this type of nepotism and old pal's act.
You can't have your cake and eat it, lads.
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.
In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.
Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.
This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.
Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?
The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'
Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?
Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:33:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:23:25 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
Now we are at the crux of the issue.
The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.
So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.
But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but once they're appointed, should everyone not move forward in the best interests of Mayo football?
Did the players effectively sacrifice their season as a way of sticking two fingers up to the county board?
I don't understand how the players effectively sacrificed a season where they lost to the greatest team of all time, in an AIF replay, by a point.
Put those players out on the pitch and they will die for the cause.
The article is spun such that H&C list supposed gripes that caused the players heave. There is no evidence at all that any of these gripes were even relevant to the players heave, as the players have never spoken about it.
This has been presented, by the Indo, as an interview whereby H&C clear their names. All they did was attempt to smear the players in my opinion. I feel a lot less sympathy for them now that I did at the time of the heave.
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 07:14:08 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:33:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:23:25 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
Now we are at the crux of the issue.
The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.
So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.
But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but once they're appointed, should everyone not move forward in the best interests of Mayo football?
Did the players effectively sacrifice their season as a way of sticking two fingers up to the county board?
I don't understand how the players effectively sacrificed a season where they lost to the greatest team of all time, in an AIF replay, by a point.
Put those players out on the pitch and they will die for the cause.
The article is spun such that H&C list supposed gripes that caused the players heave. There is no evidence at all that any of these gripes were even relevant to the players heave, as the players have never spoken about it.
This has been presented, by the Indo, as an interview whereby H&C clear their names. All they did was attempt to smear the players in my opinion. I feel a lot less sympathy for them now that I did at the time of the heave.
So your opinion is based on subjective nonsense whereby you will not entertain the idea that players sought to undermine management even though the management are on record about these incidents which have not been disputed.
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 07:14:08 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:33:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:23:25 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
Now we are at the crux of the issue.
The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.
So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.
But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but once they're appointed, should everyone not move forward in the best interests of Mayo football?
Did the players effectively sacrifice their season as a way of sticking two fingers up to the county board?
I don't understand how the players effectively sacrificed a season where they lost to the greatest team of all time, in an AIF replay, by a point.
Put those players out on the pitch and they will die for the cause.
The article is spun such that H&C list supposed gripes that caused the players heave. There is no evidence at all that any of these gripes were even relevant to the players heave, as the players have never spoken about it.
This has been presented, by the Indo, as an interview whereby H&C clear their names. All they did was attempt to smear the players in my opinion. I feel a lot less sympathy for them now that I did at the time of the heave.
They never spoke about anything other than wanting H & C gone.
If you wrote a letter to HR at work saying you didn't want to continue working under your line manager because they didn't meet your high standards, I think you could expect a response along the lines of, 'Could you be a bit more specific?'
My comment on sacrificing a season (not intentionally) is based precisely on the fact that the team did so well, in the midst of all this discontent.
If H & C were so bad, how come the team played so well?
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
You sure do, Jinxy, you sure do.
But if your want to put events in their proper perspective, you'd need to go back a long, long time before Martin Breheny's bizarre 'exclusive' was published on Saturday.
Bear in mind that what was announced as an in-depth interview (scoop if you like) turned out to be a vehicle for the duo to present a rambling petulant account of their grievances.
For beginners, how did the controversy over Eugene Rooney's 'fundraiser' affect the relationship between H&C and the players on their panel? There's a classic non-sequitur if there ever was one.
What bearing did Noel Howley's spat with H&C have to do with the decision by the players to ditch the awesome twosome?
Neither Breheny or the pair of boyos alluded to the fact that the players had wanted a two-man delegation to put their views to the CB and to do so in such a way that the managers could step down without loss of personal dignity.
The original plan to conduct affairs in confidence was blown out of the water when news of the impending meeting broke. What happened next?
The entire panel, regardless of the way they voted, marched en masse in the meeting with the CB and planted their demands in front of the surprised officials. Now, going by what Breheny and his acolyte Sweeney had to say, the players leaked details of the letter's contents.
I don't imagine that it should take a genius to figure out the the players feel that someone on the CB side did the squealing.
That is the account that was carried by the local papers at the time and that is more or less what appeared in a Sindo article the following Sunday. (Can't recall the name of the reporter who submitted it.)
My point is that none of the involved parties; players, management or CB challenged what was reported. So unless, there is some credible evidence to the contrary, I will accept that it's true.
Something that deserves to be noted is the players' assessment of why they had come up short under Horan.
According to the pair: "
They told us that tactics and match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was kpoor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they turned the ball over to easily."
And now for the clincher: "
Apart from the last two points, the losses were attributed to factors outside their control."Jesus wept! (Haven't a clue what that means but I always wanted to stick in in somewhere. ;D)
That for any one who takes any sort of interest in Mayo football is exactly what happened.
Horan had many fine qualities and earned a lot of respect from his players but his lack of tactical nous and his unwillingness to consider the opinions of others cost Mayo dearly.
The players were dead on in their assessment of what the causes of their repeated failures could be attributed to and Breheny, who should have known better, let this ass without comment.
I don't think many, if any, Mayo fans would be happy if it turned out that some players were running the show to the general detriment of the side but innuendo and insinuations apart, there was feck all in the 'scoop' to prove that this is what caused the crew to make their managers walk the plank.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 07:26:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 07:14:08 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:33:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:23:25 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
Now we are at the crux of the issue.
The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.
So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.
But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but once they're appointed, should everyone not move forward in the best interests of Mayo football?
Did the players effectively sacrifice their season as a way of sticking two fingers up to the county board?
I don't understand how the players effectively sacrificed a season where they lost to the greatest team of all time, in an AIF replay, by a point.
Put those players out on the pitch and they will die for the cause.
The article is spun such that H&C list supposed gripes that caused the players heave. There is no evidence at all that any of these gripes were even relevant to the players heave, as the players have never spoken about it.
This has been presented, by the Indo, as an interview whereby H&C clear their names. All they did was attempt to smear the players in my opinion. I feel a lot less sympathy for them now that I did at the time of the heave.
They never spoke about anything other than wanting H & C gone.
If you wrote a letter to HR at work saying you didn't want to continue working under your line manager because they didn't meet your high standards, I think you could expect a response along the lines of, 'Could you be a bit more specific?'
My comment on sacrificing a season (not intentionally) is based precisely on the fact that the team did so well, in the midst of all this discontent.
If H & C were so bad, how come the team played so well?
HR in this case is the County Board, who presided over the shambolic appointment process. There appears to be little regard between the squad and the CB for each other. In a normal job, in those circumstances, you might seek another channel, such as a trade union or Rights Commissioner depending on the grievance. Or you might quit and move to another company. But none of these options are available to GAA players.
Regarding how come they played so well, it is because they are a very good squad. They need someone to get them over the line though and they felt H&C were not going to do that. I would suggest that some supporters felt that way too. After that article, I am more convinced of that than ever.
One of the most damning things about the whole episode is why no explanation was given to the management as to why they were being told to leave. I mean you have a meeting, O sheas and the boys say whats going to happen and the captain goes to two Mayo men (who had served their county well for years) and says we want you out but we wont say why?? I mean does anyone in their right mind think that is ok?
Then they threaten the county board with strike if they don't do what they say too?
How Mayo people can defend that is beyond me. Now I do accept that the two lads should have booted 2/3 of these boys of the panel and that would have focused the mind and for not doing so they were weak. But by far the biggest sinners in this were the group of players who instigated this. The same players that vanished when the going gets tough too.
Whats worse for Mayo is that the signs are the same lads are doing the same things. Heh, its your county lads but in my mind there is no hope ye will win Sam if that shite is going on in the camp.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 19, 2016, 07:40:08 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
You sure do, Jinxy, you sure do.
But if your want to put events in their proper perspective, you'd need to go back a long, long time before Martin Breheny's bizarre 'exclusive' was published on Saturday.
Bear in mind that what was announced as an in-depth interview (scoop if you like) turned out to be a vehicle for the duo to present a rambling petulant account of their grievances.
For beginners, how did the controversy over Eugene Rooney's 'fundraiser' affect the relationship between H&C and the players on their panel? There's a classic non-sequitur if there ever was one.
What bearing did Noel Howley's spat with H&C have to do with the decision by the players to ditch the awesome twosome?
Neither Breheny or the pair of boyos alluded to the fact that the players had wanted a two-man delegation to put their views to the CB and to do so in such a way that the managers could step down without loss of personal dignity.
The original plan to conduct affairs in confidence was blown out of the water when news of the impending meeting broke. What happened next?
The entire panel, regardless of the way they voted, marched en masse in the meeting with the CB and planted their demands in front of the surprised officials. Now, going by what Breheny and his acolyte Sweeney had to say, the players leaked details of the letter's contents.
I don't imagine that it should take a genius to figure out the the players feel that someone on the CB side did the squealing.
That is the account that was carried by the local papers at the time and that is more or less what appeared in a Sindo article the following Sunday. (Can't recall the name of the reporter who submitted it.)
My point is that none of the involved parties; players, management or CB challenged what was reported. So unless, there is some credible evidence to the contrary, I will accept that it's true.
Something that deserves to be noted is the players' assessment of why they had come up short under Horan.
According to the pair: "They told us that tactics and match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was kpoor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they turned the ball over to easily."
And now for the clincher: "Apart from the last two points, the losses were attributed to factors outside their control."
Jesus wept! (Haven't a clue what that means but I always wanted to stick in in somewhere. ;D)
That for any one who takes any sort of interest in Mayo football is exactly what happened.
Horan had many fine qualities and earned a lot of respect from his players but his lack of tactical nous and his unwillingness to consider the opinions of others cost Mayo dearly.
The players were dead on in their assessment of what the causes of their repeated failures could be attributed to and Breheny, who should have known better, let this ass without comment.
I don't think many, if any, Mayo fans would be happy if it turned out that some players were running the show to the general detriment of the side but innuendo and insinuations apart, there was feck all in the 'scoop' to prove that this is what caused the crew to make their managers walk the plank.
I read that as saying the Mayo players took none/very little responsibility for their actions. If I were over a team and held a meeting at the start of the year and players came out with all that I would think exactly the same.
The irony of this demand for answers is that I'm guessing some of those answers are likely to be humiliating for the ousted management team.
I was told a story by a member of the backroom team that was pathetic, but he didn't seem to have slightest idea how badly it reflected on him and the rest of the management. I hope the players resist the temptation and move on.
Quote from: Itchy on December 19, 2016, 07:54:43 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 19, 2016, 07:40:08 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
You sure do, Jinxy, you sure do.
But if your want to put events in their proper perspective, you'd need to go back a long, long time before Martin Breheny's bizarre 'exclusive' was published on Saturday.
Bear in mind that what was announced as an in-depth interview (scoop if you like) turned out to be a vehicle for the duo to present a rambling petulant account of their grievances.
For beginners, how did the controversy over Eugene Rooney's 'fundraiser' affect the relationship between H&C and the players on their panel? There's a classic non-sequitur if there ever was one.
What bearing did Noel Howley's spat with H&C have to do with the decision by the players to ditch the awesome twosome?
Neither Breheny or the pair of boyos alluded to the fact that the players had wanted a two-man delegation to put their views to the CB and to do so in such a way that the managers could step down without loss of personal dignity.
The original plan to conduct affairs in confidence was blown out of the water when news of the impending meeting broke. What happened next?
The entire panel, regardless of the way they voted, marched en masse in the meeting with the CB and planted their demands in front of the surprised officials. Now, going by what Breheny and his acolyte Sweeney had to say, the players leaked details of the letter's contents.
I don't imagine that it should take a genius to figure out the the players feel that someone on the CB side did the squealing.
That is the account that was carried by the local papers at the time and that is more or less what appeared in a Sindo article the following Sunday. (Can't recall the name of the reporter who submitted it.)
My point is that none of the involved parties; players, management or CB challenged what was reported. So unless, there is some credible evidence to the contrary, I will accept that it's true.
Something that deserves to be noted is the players' assessment of why they had come up short under Horan.
According to the pair: "They told us that tactics and match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was kpoor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they turned the ball over to easily."
And now for the clincher: "Apart from the last two points, the losses were attributed to factors outside their control."
Jesus wept! (Haven't a clue what that means but I always wanted to stick in in somewhere. ;D)
That for any one who takes any sort of interest in Mayo football is exactly what happened.
Horan had many fine qualities and earned a lot of respect from his players but his lack of tactical nous and his unwillingness to consider the opinions of others cost Mayo dearly.
The players were dead on in their assessment of what the causes of their repeated failures could be attributed to and Breheny, who should have known better, let this ass without comment.
I don't think many, if any, Mayo fans would be happy if it turned out that some players were running the show to the general detriment of the side but innuendo and insinuations apart, there was feck all in the 'scoop' to prove that this is what caused the crew to make their managers walk the plank.
I read that as saying the Mayo players took none/very little responsibility for their actions. If I were over a team and held a meeting at the start of the year and players came out with all that I would think exactly the same.
'They also highlighted some errors for goals and also some occasions when they turned the ball over to (sic) easily'.
Did you miss that bit?
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 07:59:08 PM
The irony of this demand for answers is that I'm guessing some of those answers are likely to be humiliating for the ousted management team.
I was told a story by a member of the backroom team that was pathetic, but he didn't seem to have slightest idea how badly it reflected on him and the rest of the management. I hope the players resist the temptation and move on.
How do you move on from players asking the manager to drop certain players and those players still on being on the same squad.
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 06:59:59 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.
In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.
Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.
This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.
Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?
The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'
Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?
Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?
I'm not going to get into an argument over the definition of the word 'team'. You can dress it up whatever way you like but the relevant email involved AOS questioning management's selections and to me that is crossing the line. You obviously don't see it that way so we'll have to disagree.
I never said that Aidan O Shea tried to have anyone picked in a conversation during the semi-final. I brought up the semi-final as I believe the fact that AOS sat beside SR at the match shows that they have a closer than normal player-manager relationship.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 19, 2016, 08:14:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 07:59:08 PM
The irony of this demand for answers is that I'm guessing some of those answers are likely to be humiliating for the ousted management team.
I was told a story by a member of the backroom team that was pathetic, but he didn't seem to have slightest idea how badly it reflected on him and the rest of the management. I hope the players resist the temptation and move on.
How do you move on from players asking the manager to drop certain players and those players still on being on the same squad.
Dunno, where did this happen?
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 08:14:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 06:59:59 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.
In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.
Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.
This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.
Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?
The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'
Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?
Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?
I'm not going to get into an argument over the definition of the word 'team'. You can dress it up whatever way you like but the relevant email involved AOS questioning management's selections and to me that is crossing the line. You obviously don't see it that way so we'll have to disagree.
I never said that Aidan O Shea tried to have anyone picked in a conversation during the semi-final. I brought up the semi-final as I believe the fact that AOS sat beside SR at the match shows that they have a closer than normal player-manager relationship.
This is what you said ffs!
'it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.'
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 08:14:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 06:59:59 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: Zulu on December 19, 2016, 01:24:47 PM
Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.
In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.
I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.
If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.
I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.
In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.
Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.
This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.
Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?
The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'
Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?
Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?
I'm not going to get into an argument over the definition of the word 'team'. You can dress it up whatever way you like but the relevant email involved AOS questioning management's selections and to me that is crossing the line. You obviously don't see it that way so we'll have to disagree.
I never said that Aidan O Shea tried to have anyone picked in a conversation during the semi-final. I brought up the semi-final as I believe the fact that AOS sat beside SR at the match shows that they have a closer than normal player-manager relationship.
This is what you said ffs!
'it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.'
Exactly, to a manager that he sat beside. I didn't say he was plugging it there and then. (I also didn't say that he definitely did do it either by the way)
Do you have 'closer than normal' relationship with everyone you sat beside at a match?
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 08:01:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 19, 2016, 07:54:43 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 19, 2016, 07:40:08 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.
You sure do, Jinxy, you sure do.
But if your want to put events in their proper perspective, you'd need to go back a long, long time before Martin Breheny's bizarre 'exclusive' was published on Saturday.
Bear in mind that what was announced as an in-depth interview (scoop if you like) turned out to be a vehicle for the duo to present a rambling petulant account of their grievances.
For beginners, how did the controversy over Eugene Rooney's 'fundraiser' affect the relationship between H&C and the players on their panel? There's a classic non-sequitur if there ever was one.
What bearing did Noel Howley's spat with H&C have to do with the decision by the players to ditch the awesome twosome?
Neither Breheny or the pair of boyos alluded to the fact that the players had wanted a two-man delegation to put their views to the CB and to do so in such a way that the managers could step down without loss of personal dignity.
The original plan to conduct affairs in confidence was blown out of the water when news of the impending meeting broke. What happened next?
The entire panel, regardless of the way they voted, marched en masse in the meeting with the CB and planted their demands in front of the surprised officials. Now, going by what Breheny and his acolyte Sweeney had to say, the players leaked details of the letter's contents.
I don't imagine that it should take a genius to figure out the the players feel that someone on the CB side did the squealing.
That is the account that was carried by the local papers at the time and that is more or less what appeared in a Sindo article the following Sunday. (Can't recall the name of the reporter who submitted it.)
My point is that none of the involved parties; players, management or CB challenged what was reported. So unless, there is some credible evidence to the contrary, I will accept that it's true.
Something that deserves to be noted is the players' assessment of why they had come up short under Horan.
According to the pair: "They told us that tactics and match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was kpoor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they turned the ball over to easily."
And now for the clincher: "Apart from the last two points, the losses were attributed to factors outside their control."
Jesus wept! (Haven't a clue what that means but I always wanted to stick in in somewhere. ;D)
That for any one who takes any sort of interest in Mayo football is exactly what happened.
Horan had many fine qualities and earned a lot of respect from his players but his lack of tactical nous and his unwillingness to consider the opinions of others cost Mayo dearly.
The players were dead on in their assessment of what the causes of their repeated failures could be attributed to and Breheny, who should have known better, let this ass without comment.
I don't think many, if any, Mayo fans would be happy if it turned out that some players were running the show to the general detriment of the side but innuendo and insinuations apart, there was feck all in the 'scoop' to prove that this is what caused the crew to make their managers walk the plank.
I read that as saying the Mayo players took none/very little responsibility for their actions. If I were over a team and held a meeting at the start of the year and players came out with all that I would think exactly the same.
'They also highlighted some errors for goals and also some occasions when they turned the ball over to (sic) easily'.
Did you miss that bit?
No didn't miss it. To me that's like going to confessions and admitting to saying bad words. Those were descriptions of making mistakes. I'd expect things from players like losing focus under pressure, hiding on the field,not taking responsibility etc.
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 08:29:39 PM
Do you have 'closer than normal' relationship with everyone you sat beside at a match?
Have you any other examples of a manager sitting beside a key player when analysing the opposition at a big inter-county championship match?
Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:
"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.
"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."
Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2016, 08:54:19 PM
Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:
"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.
"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."
Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.
I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.
Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.
Quote from: dublin7 on December 19, 2016, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2016, 08:54:19 PM
Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:
"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.
"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."
Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.
I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.
Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.
In a nutshell.
I hope that Holmes and Connelly were well rewarded for their treachery, they will need it.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 19, 2016, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 19, 2016, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2016, 08:54:19 PM
Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:
"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.
"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."
Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.
I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.
Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.
In a nutshell.
Ah ya that's it. In a nutshell alright. Sure Brian Cody or Michael Ryan wouldn't stand for this shite . I' ll tell you one thing Aiden O'Shea was lucky to have Pat Holmes looking after his private affairs, and look how he repaid him. He had the cheek to send him an email. Shocking stuff altogether.
In other news, even though LeeKeegan has become the new villian for the Dubs its good to see the obsession in AOS shows no sign of easing.
Quote
I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.
I guess you'd question Brendan Maher as well then.
Quote from: criostlinn on December 19, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 19, 2016, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 19, 2016, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2016, 08:54:19 PM
Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:
"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.
"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."
Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.
I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.
Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.
In a nutshell.
Ah ya that's it. In a nutshell alright. Sure Brian Cody or Michael Ryan wouldn't stand for this shite . I' ll tell you one thing Aiden O'Shea was lucky to have Pat Holmes looking after his private affairs, and look how he repaid him. He had the cheek to send him an email. Shocking stuff altogether.
In other news, even though LeeKeegan has become the new villian for the Dubs its good to see the obsession in AOS shows no sign of easing.
Real Dublin GAA fans wish keegan was playing for us. That's how highly rated he is.
Aidan O Se is seem for what his performances have deemed him to be - a great player against average teams
But continue with the paranoia and blame everyone else culture by all means
Look how far it's got you
Quote from: INDIANA on December 19, 2016, 11:03:15 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 19, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 19, 2016, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 19, 2016, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2016, 08:54:19 PM
Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:
"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.
"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."
Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.
I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.
Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.
In a nutshell.
Ah ya that's it. In a nutshell alright. Sure Brian Cody or Michael Ryan wouldn't stand for this shite . I' ll tell you one thing Aiden O'Shea was lucky to have Pat Holmes looking after his private affairs, and look how he repaid him. He had the cheek to send him an email. Shocking stuff altogether.
In other news, even though LeeKeegan has become the new villian for the Dubs its good to see the obsession in AOS shows no sign of easing.
Real Dublin GAA fans wish keegan was playing for us. That's how highly rated he is.
Aidan O Se is seem for what his performances have deemed him to be - a great player against average teams
But continue with the paranoia and blame everyone else culture by all means
Look how far it's got you
Real Dublin fans. Will ya go way outta that. Some of the shite I've read about Lee Keegan from so called real dublin gaa fans like urself
I just wish Jim Gavin had the same opinion as you of Aiden O'Shea.
Quote from: criostlinn on December 19, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 19, 2016, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 19, 2016, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2016, 08:54:19 PM
Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:
"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.
"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."
Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.
I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.
Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.
In a nutshell.
Ah ya that's it. In a nutshell alright. Sure Brian Cody or Michael Ryan wouldn't stand for this shite . I' ll tell you one thing Aiden O'Shea was lucky to have Pat Holmes looking after his private affairs, and look how he repaid him. He had the cheek to send him an email. Shocking stuff altogether.
In other news, even though LeeKeegan has become the new villian for the Dubs its good to see the obsession in AOS shows no sign of easing.
Lee Keegan is in a different league to AOS when it comes to football ability and leadership on the pitch. All AOS wants to do when he gets the ball is put the head down and try to barge his way through on goal.
He has never done it in any of the big games against Dublin were as Keegan has been a real leader. I personally think he is overrated and not a Team player
As for your childish remarks. " Blame everyone else blah de blah... look where it got you blah de blah"
Who am I blaming and for what.
So all other counties who don't get near winning an All Ireland, is this what you reckon it boils down to. Blaming everyone else or is this just what is holding Mayo back.
Quote from: blast05 on December 19, 2016, 10:59:39 PM
Quote
I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.
I guess you'd question Brendan Maher as well then.
As for that Jackie Tyrell fella. Brian Cody needs to start ringing a few TV producers to make sure this doesn't happen again. Sure it had their 2015 season in a heap
Quote from: criostlinn on December 19, 2016, 11:20:10 PM
As for your childish remarks. " Blame everyone else blah de blah... look where it got you blah de blah"
Who am I blaming and for what.
So all other counties who don't get near winning an All Ireland, is this what you reckon it boils down to. Blaming everyone else or is this just what is holding Mayo back.
In the case of Mayo they blamed the ref against Kerry in 2014. It was all the Dublin players/ pundits in the media who got Keegan black carded this year that cost them. Couldn't possibly be the players fault!!!
Might be better looking at their own decisions such as why Robbie. Hennelly keeps getting picked for big matches when he has shown he doesn't have the mental strength to cope with big games.
Quote from: dublin7 on December 19, 2016, 11:18:09 PM
Lee Keegan is in a different league to AOS when it comes to football ability and leadership on the pitch. All AOS wants to do when he gets the ball is put the head down and try to barge his way through on goal.
He has never done it in any of the big games against Dublin were as Keegan has been a real leader. I personally think he is overrated and not a Team player
True, we'd still take him in Meath though.
Big Joe needs someone to aim the kick-outs at.
Quote from: dublin7 on December 19, 2016, 11:28:20 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 19, 2016, 11:20:10 PM
As for your childish remarks. " Blame everyone else blah de blah... look where it got you blah de blah"
Who am I blaming and for what.
So all other counties who don't get near winning an All Ireland, is this what you reckon it boils down to. Blaming everyone else or is this just what is holding Mayo back.
In the case of Mayo they blamed the ref against Kerry in 2014. It was all the Dublin players/ pundits in the media who got Keegan black carded this year that cost them. Couldn't possibly be the players fault!!!
Might be better looking at their own decisions such as why Robbie. Hennelly keeps getting picked for big matches when he has shown he doesn't have the mental strength to cope with big games.
Oh sweet Jesus. There's a pair of them in it
I'd say ye're good for a hundred pager here.
Keep it burning bucks ;D
Tom Cunniffe said the following.
"I believe our decision was rash. I felt we should have had a few leaders meet Pat and Noel and go through the various issues that had been raised at the first two meetings. I would have much preferred that."
That seems a reasonable enough position to me.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 11:48:44 PM
Tom Cunniffe said the following.
"I believe our decision was rash. I felt we should have had a few leaders meet Pat and Noel and go through the various issues that had been raised at the first two meetings. I would have much preferred that."
That seems a reasonable enough position to me.
Cunniffe is a clubman of Holmes so perhaps he had a better relationship with him?
It's worth remembering that a decent amount of the squad (SOS, Higgins, Boyle, Caff, Conroy) had won an U21 AI under H&C and others would have played under them in 07 & 08 so there should have been the basis for a good relationship there if things had been done properly.
As a Mayo man this whole crap is a really sad end to the year. The timing of the publication of the story on the day of the sports awards also rubbed salt into the wounds.
I would say that perhaps H & C might or should do some local follow up verbal interview to clarify their main issues which wasn't likely to have been communicated very well in the article.
Communication from day 1 was the 2 mens downfall and I would say if they were able to wind back the clock they would do things differently.
They appear to be 'old school' in their approach to the players and appear to suggest two or three main gripes within the camp that needs improving.
The first is that team lacked some balls and fight below in Limerick when it came to the crunch and that Kerry bullied us. As one Mayo poster alluded this was not the case, it wasn't a 'lack of balls' that gave away the soft goals that day. I heard the same guff was dished out after the FBD loss to Roscommon in one of the H/C's early games. This motivational technique certainly didn't work and was never going to. So bad start on this particular communication front by the new managers.
The 2nd gripe was the media attention from certain players. I fully agree with them on this. I questioned Aidan's appearance on this show at the time. To me this was a mistake by Aidan and I hope he and the team learn from it. By the way no more Newstalk interviews would also be an idea. In any case I doubt any Mayo GAA person will ever get interviewed by the Indo for the foreseeable future. This is a good thing, so at the end of the day some good might come of this. By the way Brendan Maher already had an AI medal in his pocket doing his show, along with his 2 minor AI's and an U21 medal, so the poster who keeps trying to justify AOS on this basis is plainly daft. In the drawn AI Daithi O'Shea was interviewing the American Football lad from the show (who came over to play for Breaffy) about 15 mins before kick off while the lads were warming up. This irked me at the time.
The third thing that H/C have is something in relation to selection issues that appears to be muddled in the Breheny article and appears a bit incoherent. If this is the case (and I doubt what they are saying is true) then something needs to be done about it and fast. I presume Tony McEntee would set things right in the current set up so I don't really believe that certain players are part time selectors.
In relation to Sweeney's follow up. I stopped reading him after his article on the Irish Rugby team back in 2013. His attack on my County is in a similar vein and is the only article I have read since. I do hope that my team follow the same path as the Irish Rugby team has after his bitter and twisted portrayal of them. One section in this sad article sums of the lad.... "We can be sure that when Lions selection time comes around the cheerleaders for the Irish team will caution the selectors not to base their decisions on anything so vulgar as current form. Instead they should judge Irish players on past reputation and our media's estimation of their worth."
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/eamonn-sweeney-the-bubble-has-finally-burst-29150403.html
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't The Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of Mayo primadonnas, does not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 19, 2016, 11:48:44 PM
Tom Cunniffe said the following.
"I believe our decision was rash. I felt we should have had a few leaders meet Pat and Noel and go through the various issues that had been raised at the first two meetings. I would have much preferred that."
That seems a reasonable enough position to me.
It does seem reasonable alright but things had probably gone beyond reconciliation at that stage. Management might have held on but it would have been just delaying the inevitable. I remember a bit of a crisis after a league match in spring 2015 where Horan in an article called on Donie Buckley to step up and bring some kind of leadership and structure to things. We had 2 managers and it seems that the coach was the only one that could command things! I found that from Horan strange at the time, but eventually it made sense. To be honest it made sense at the time because it was obvious things were dysfunctional. I also thought Horan didn't have to put his speak in there. There were also stories coming out about training being a mess when Buckley could not attend. A parent that had kids in McHale Park for underage stuff heard players refer to H&C as 'here comes dumb and dumber'. Messing maybe and not nice but I think it shows that these lads were bet before they started. The appointment process was a disgrace and joint partnership just doesn't work anyway. Business, sport, whatever.
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
The Mayo population is far less united and far less willing to whitewash what the players did than you and a few others here are, rightly so because some of the actions by players are not easily written off as normal business. It's a pity that the Mayo posters here have suddenly starting taking their cues from the Tyronies and blaming everyone but their sacred cows for their problems.
It's H&C's fault! It's the CB's fault! It's the Independent's fault! It's trolls' fault for not understanding! But it's not the players' fault.. right, Lar?
IC football is a dirty game. It just so happens a few of the Mayo panel got caught red handed this time.
Also a terrible insult aimed at Sweeney who has always been an insightful and fair columnist just because he had the gall to comment on the biggest story of the week in GAA.
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of Mayo primadonnas, does not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
That is true.
I'm not going to blacklist the Indo over this. Haven't bothered with it for years anyway. There was a bundle of freebies delivered at work one day last week. They were hardly touched.
Very dejected about the whole saga but we will survive.Even tho H and C are more than entitled to have there say it is complete Bs for them to say that they are doing this for the good of Mayo football.Anybody reading the H and C interview and all the other articles in the Sindo that would have no interest in GAA would think that the Mayo players are useless and do not prepare or train properly and rarely win any games .For me this damages Mayos prospects for 2017 as every selection and performance will be over scrutinized and you will have the usual suspects adding 2 plus 2 and coming up with 8.Feel sorry for a player like Dillion who has given every thing to the cause, and then having his name besmirched in this manner.Same with Aiden O Shea and even tho he has not played well in any finals he does leave it all on the pitch.
Quote from: Dubhaltach on December 19, 2016, 08:36:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 19, 2016, 08:29:39 PM
Do you have 'closer than normal' relationship with everyone you sat beside at a match?
Have you any other examples of a manager sitting beside a key player when analysing the opposition at a big inter-county championship match?
The burden of proof is on you to back up your ludicrous claims.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
Ah Jaysus put us out of our misery :)
Im sure that the Indo wont be a bit worried about being blacklisted in Mayo. These type of actions usually last about a week. The soap opera that is the Mayo bottlers group will continue to entertain.
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 01:55:09 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
The Mayo population is far less united and far less willing to whitewash what the players did than you and a few others here are, rightly so because some of the actions by players are not easily written off as normal business. It's a pity that the Mayo posters here have suddenly starting taking their cues from the Tyronies and blaming everyone but their sacred cows for their problems.
It's H&C's fault! It's the CB's fault! It's the Independent's fault! It's trolls' fault for not understanding! But it's not the players' fault.. right, Lar?
IC football is a dirty game. It just so happens a few of the Mayo panel got caught red handed this time.
Also a terrible insult aimed at Sweeney who has always been an insightful and fair columnist just because he had the gall to comment on the biggest story of the week in GAA.
Finger on the pulse in Mayo as well as Roscommon. You handle the burden of righteousness very well.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 09:54:29 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.
Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
All too often in Ireland, the instinctive reaction to any sort of criticism is to circle the wagons, question the motives of those speaking out - "why did they have to open their mouths" and try to sweep it under the carpet as quickly as possible. There seems to be little to no appetite to see what lessons can be learned from the whole situation so that a similar situation doesn't reoccur in the future.
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Very briefly.....
McStay said he wanted the job on the Sunday Game.
McStay took a call on a Thursday to say he was out of the running.
McStay then asked on the following Monday by the same official who told him he was out of the running that he was required to attend an interview for a job he wasn't going to get.
CB later said that McStays "package" was too expensive....
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Quote from: Buttofthehill on December 20, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.
It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 01:55:09 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
The Mayo population is far less united and far less willing to whitewash what the players did than you and a few others here are, rightly so because some of the actions by players are not easily written off as normal business. It's a pity that the Mayo posters here have suddenly starting taking their cues from the Tyronies and blaming everyone but their sacred cows for their problems.
It's H&C's fault! It's the CB's fault! It's the Independent's fault! It's trolls' fault for not understanding! But it's not the players' fault.. right, Lar?
IC football is a dirty game. It just so happens a few of the Mayo panel got caught red handed this time.
Also a terrible insult aimed at Sweeney who has always been an insightful and fair columnist just because he had the gall to comment on the biggest story of the week in GAA.
Ah, for Christ's sake, syf, I'm a bit worried about your state of mind. Paranoia tends to creep up on one bit by bit or so I'm reliably told. Take care ol' buddy, you left the land of logic and reason in your wake a long time ago and the edge of the precipice is not very far away.
God between us and small farms, how do you claim to know what the population of Mayo is thinking?
You, and a few others who are usually level-headed and insightful have lost the run of yerselves and claim ye know more about what's going on in Mayo football than a small core of Mayo 'senior' supporters as Jinxy puts it?
Dunno where he gets the 'small core' bit from as to date not a single Mayo poster has accepted what Breheny wrote is a genuine and honest account of what really happened.
No Mayo poster here has said the it's all the fault ot H&C, the CB or anyone else bar the players. I certainly never did and I don't now either.
Now you, who feels you know more about Mayo affairs than I could ever hope to learn, can surely come up with some proof that the Mayo population
gives a sweet f**k backs H&C's version of events.
Can you name a single source to back that assertion up?
How 'bout a link to a newspaper article backing Breheny's take on what happened?
Not a single one who thinks he holds the moral high ground has even bothered to consider the fact that something must be wrong when a pair of distinguished frmer players, All Stars the pair of them, takes over the management of the most experienced squad of players in the land. Yet before their first season in charge is over, the players threaten to go on strike if the pair of them don't step down.
So we are talking about a bunch od prima donnas, are we?
So the boys who were willing to die for the cause under James Horan were not prepared to work for a pair who had managed ten of them when Mayo won an u21 All Ireland.
You and your fellow 'experts' see nothing odd there?
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
You can also add that three CB members resigned in protest over the shenanigans that went ob behind the scene and that the chairman was obliged to resign when the full details of what he had been up to were revealed.
I am getting this mixed up with the Arlene Foster story. Basically Mayo have no renewable heat.
Why were Mayo players so against H&C from start? Was it do with chairman appointing his brother as manager? Holmes/Connelly were in charge in 06 when Mayo won u21 All Ireland .Holmes himself won National League as manager in 2001 and guiding Castlebar to club final. Would they not have been good credentials for the job. Did the manner in which Castlebar lost to Vincents(not man marking Connolly) in club final put doubts in players minds that Holmes was not up to the job tactically?
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 09:54:29 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.
Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.
Nah, I think he is watching the electoral college vote. ::)
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:56:26 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Very briefly.....
McStay said he wanted the job on the Sunday Game.
McStay took a call on a Thursday to say he was out of the running.
McStay then asked on the following Monday by the same official who told him he was out of the running that he was required to attend an interview for a job he wasn't going to get.
CB later said that McStays "package" was too expensive....
What about when he said the players vetoed it because they were sore about McHale criticising them in the media?
In retrospective a common theme between both what H&C and McStay have said is the sensitive egos of key players on the Mayo team.
Why some want to place blame on the managers bad CB alone and not on the players too simply doesn't fit with what actually happened.
Question 1:
So anyway - who was collecting the money and distributing it as he saw fit?
Hint he wasn't a member of the county board or management.
Quote from: Syferus on December 19, 2016, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: weareros on December 19, 2016, 01:51:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 19, 2016, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.
Continually questioning the selection of other players and lobbying for changes at a particular position are not usual man management decisions. It's strange that Mayo supporters are so unwilling to criticize the players involved because their actions were a poor reflection of themselves and a dis-service to their county.
The easy way out is to blame the two lads not involved now and ignore the players' transgressions and it's sad to see so many take that approach. Everyone else can see through it.
As opposed to our county where talented players opt-out of the panel because they see the less talented players picked ahead of them due to, take your pick: favouritism. Or what about the John Maughan years, players off the panel because they were over 28, or because a previous manager said they were troublemakers. There's often issues with managers (and managers of Mayo origin seem to be the worst offenders) and often times players have to speak up. Nothing wrong with it.
You seem to have went off on an non-sequitur there.
Not really. Outside attempts to influence managers is nothing new in the GAA. John Evans claimed he was ousted because he stood his ground on not picking the sons of certain influential figures in Roscommon GAA. In 1979, we threw away a chance of being in the All-Ireland final by changing up a forward line that should never have been changed up, and politics were at play. What's different here is that in the Mayo situation, ambitious footballers - according to rumour - tried to have influence. But it was very much in the noble interests of trying to land the big one, even if it backfired in the end. What happens in our county is just pure political stuff that's far worse. So I'd leave the Mayo boys be on this one. It's understandable the supporters back the players - it's not often you get a generation like this. The managers would have been better to let the sleeping dogs lie. But they have done Rochford a bit of a favour in that the players will surely be more focussed on their own game going forward and should they query who's starting will get the auld "are you still at that effin nonsense" look.
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 09:54:29 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.
Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.
Of course the reason Heffo knows this is because he is doing the same thing. :D
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:56:26 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Very briefly.....
McStay said he wanted the job on the Sunday Game.
McStay took a call on a Thursday to say he was out of the running.
McStay then asked on the following Monday by the same official who told him he was out of the running that he was required to attend an interview for a job he wasn't going to get.
CB later said that McStays "package" was too expensive....
When there was an outcry about it, the response was along gate lines of....mistakes were made, nothing to see here, we must move on.
As an aside, given the amount of pontificating in the media on the subject, can anyone (regardless of views on the matter) point to a single article written that you would say - yea good article?
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 09:54:29 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.
Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.
Of course the reason Heffo knows this is because he is doing the same thing. :D
Heffo already has his All-Ireland medals though.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 02:38:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 09:54:29 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.
Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.
Of course the reason Heffo knows this is because he is doing the same thing. :D
Heffo already has his All-Ireland medals though.
In fairness he is a Geordie Shore All-Star.
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 09:54:29 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of prima donnas in Mayo do not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
I don't know how you can read this into what Syferus has had to say but, anyway, there's nowt so queer as folks.
Isn't it even queerer that all the criticism of the players is coming from posters who know sweet FA what's really happened and not a single regular Mayo fan has come out to support H&C?
Talk about hubris!
I'd lay good money on either Breheny or Sweeney winning a donkey derby if a jockey could be found who was willing to ride them and yet normally well-balanced posters are lining up to take pot shots at the players.
I dunno, there's nowt so queer as....oh wait I said that already. ;D
That's because there's a small core of disgruntled 'senior' Mayo posters on the board that are calling the shots.
Muppet is not available to comment as he's taking time out from his busy role of telling us this is a non-story to shoot some Geordie Shore episodes for the next two weeks.
Of course the reason Heffo knows this is because he is doing the same thing. :D
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/54/1e/29/541e29601d93344aaa68fa3200c3d96a.jpg)
The media response seems to be pro-player in general.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html)
Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: Buttofthehill on December 20, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.
It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.
I find nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's not a case of every single Mayo posters backing the players unconditionally. H&C were weak, very weak and they allowed dominant characters too dominate proceedings which pissed off other players and this had a snowballing effect...
Sean Boylan or Jim Gavin or any other manager of note including James Horan would never allow this to happen.
The awesome twosome got a remit; manage the team and this they did not do.
My problem here is that the two of them are bleating away in public about the nasty bullies who wouldn't do what they were told, as all good little boys should. FFS, there was and always be tensions in any panel who have ambitions of any sort to better themselves. I'd expect that a good number on the Mayo or any other panel don't get on well with some of the others. If there is no jockeying for positions then any team won't get anywhere.
H&C were given a prominent platform to present their side of things without any effort being made to bring a sense of objectivity into their presentation. Breheny made no effort to do this and I can't understand why so many posters here seem to feel that what he wrote is the definitive account of what really happened.
I'd say the vast majority of Mayo fans would like both sides of the argument to be presented if there is a need to wash the dirty linen in public, do so in an evenhanded manner.
The article was very unbalanced. But what would you expect in the Indo?
For example.....two similar stories.
Holmes/Connelly believe that the change in the logistics operation discommoded a few players that were used to the cosy relationship to a degree where the pettiest of issues were seized upon.
Complaints were raised over the timing of a pre-match meal prior to a league game against Cork in Páirc Uí Rinn.
Mass had been arranged for those who wanted to attend. Since it was Palm Sunday, Mass took longer than usual, leading to the pre-match meal being put back by 15 minutes.
"One player made a big fuss of that, as if it was hugely important. It was just an excuse to complain about something, to have a dig at the logistics operation," says Connelly.
There was also the case of a league game in Derry. Holmes/Connelly explain that a few minutes were lost when the coach went through, rather than around, a town between Letterkenny and Derry but that it was irrelevant as, on arrival, they were delayed for a number of minutes before getting access to the dressing-room. Mayo won the game.
Notice how Breheny helpfully tells us that Mayo won the latter match. Thus implying that the result negates all the 'pettiest of issues' that bothered an unnamed number of players. But also notice that there is no mention of the result in the other match from Breheny. That game was lost to a last minute goal. How often do we hear it is a game of inches? No balance there from Breheny.
Now imagine showing up 15 minutes late for Jim Gavin, Jack O'Connor, Eamon Fitzmaurice, Joe Kernan and telling them that it was due to it being Palm Sunday. Or you took a wrong turn on the way. Imagine telling Big Joe not to get all upset about 'the pettiest of issues'.
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 04:48:07 PM
The article was very unbalanced. But what would you expect in the Indo?
For example.....two similar stories.
Holmes/Connelly believe that the change in the logistics operation discommoded a few players that were used to the cosy relationship to a degree where the pettiest of issues were seized upon.
Complaints were raised over the timing of a pre-match meal prior to a league game against Cork in Páirc Uí Rinn.
Mass had been arranged for those who wanted to attend. Since it was Palm Sunday, Mass took longer than usual, leading to the pre-match meal being put back by 15 minutes.
"One player made a big fuss of that, as if it was hugely important. It was just an excuse to complain about something, to have a dig at the logistics operation," says Connelly.
There was also the case of a league game in Derry. Holmes/Connelly explain that a few minutes were lost when the coach went through, rather than around, a town between Letterkenny and Derry but that it was irrelevant as, on arrival, they were delayed for a number of minutes before getting access to the dressing-room. Mayo won the game.
Notice how Breheny helpfully tells us that Mayo won the latter match. Thus implying that the result negates all the 'pettiest of issues' that bothered an unnamed number of players. But also notice that there is no mention of the result in the other match from Breheny. That game was lost to a last minute goal. How often do we hear it is a game of inches? No balance there from Breheny.
Now imagine showing up 15 minutes late for Jim Gavin, Jack O'Connor, Eamon Fitzmaurice, Joe Kernan and telling them that it was due to it being Palm Sunday. Or you took a wrong turn on the way. Imagine telling Big Joe not to get all upset about 'the pettiest of issues'.
Agree but what do you expect from the Indo. I actually remember Fitzmaurice giving out about Kerry being delayed to Croker because they had to reverse out of St. Pats in Drumcondra where they did their warm up. They lost to Dublin. I think it was 2013. Fail to prepare.............
No dog in this fight. Have to say that the way the Mayo team played in 2015 to me anyway didn't look like a team poorly prepared. They imo again, put a Dublin team playing very well to the pin of their collar twice in the AISF and could have won both of the games. Dublin in the 2016 AIFs ( imo again) were not a patch on the team the previous year when only the monsoon conditions prevented us from hammering Kerry (imvho) .
There are no towns between Letterkenny and Derry. There are a couple of villages who could potentially add 2-3 minutes to a journey. I suppose that on such fine margins rest the fate of the All-Ireland.
Quote from: highorlow on December 20, 2016, 12:12:54 AM
The first is that team lacked some balls and fight below in Limerick when it came to the crunch and that Kerry bullied us. As one Mayo poster alluded this was not the case, it wasn't a 'lack of balls' that gave away the soft goals that day. I heard the same guff was dished out after the FBD loss to Roscommon in one of the H/C's early games. This motivational technique certainly didn't work and was never going to. So bad start on this particular communication front by the new managers.
I find this an absurd gripe from the player's perspective, it this was a genuine gripe with them then it shows how precious some of these players really are and that's not a good thing.
Quote from: Beffs on December 20, 2016, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
If people in Mayo blacklist the Indo because of running an interview it will be even more ridiculous than Mickey shunning RTE because of a radio skit. This wasn't the Sun shaming the dead from Hillsborough. It hardly even reads particularly sensationally. The paper did absolutely no wrong in all this. It's the players, the CB and the two lads in that order that are to blame for what happened last year.
The behaviour of a bunch of Mayo primadonnas, does not warrant being mentioned in the same sentence as a father mourning the loss of his murdered daughter. Not on this planet, or on any other.
It's par the course for that sewer rat to make little of Mickey Harte's family tragedy unfortunately.
Quote from: Gael85 on December 20, 2016, 12:54:36 PM
Why were Mayo players so against H&C from start? Was it do with chairman appointing his brother as manager? Holmes/Connelly were in charge in 06 when Mayo won u21 All Ireland .Holmes himself won National League as manager in 2001 and guiding Castlebar to club final. Would they not have been good credentials for the job. Did the manner in which Castlebar lost to Vincents(not man marking Connolly) in club final put doubts in players minds that Holmes was not up to the job tactically?
The irony of this against the backdrop of players canvassing management to include their clubmates and brothers and then Mayo fans castigating one group for nepotism while praising the others for it.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: Buttofthehill on December 20, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.
It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.
I find nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's not a case of every single Mayo posters backing the players unconditionally. H&C were weak, very weak and they allowed dominant characters too dominate proceedings which pissed off other players and this had a snowballing effect...
Sean Boylan or Jim Gavin or any other manager of note including James Horan would never allow this to happen.
The awesome twosome got a remit; manage the team and this they did not do.
My problem here is that the two of them are bleating away in public about the nasty bullies who wouldn't do what they were told, as all good little boys should. FFS, there was and always be tensions in any panel who have ambitions of any sort to better themselves. I'd expect that a good number on the Mayo or any other panel don't get on well with some of the others. If there is no jockeying for positions then any team won't get anywhere.
H&C were given a prominent platform to present their side of things without any effort being made to bring a sense of objectivity into their presentation. Breheny made no effort to do this and I can't understand why so many posters here seem to feel that what he wrote is the definitive account of what really happened.
I'd say the vast majority of Mayo fans would like both sides of the argument to be presented if there is a need to wash the dirty linen in public, do so in an evenhanded manner.
The point you're missing Lar is how tenable is the current management's position?
It's clear as day the players selected the goalkeeper for the replayed final. To me that is the point of no return for any management team.
This goes far beyond anything to do with previous management's teams not being up to it.
It brings into question the integrity of the current selection and who is making the decisions.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 20, 2016, 07:03:16 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: Buttofthehill on December 20, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.
It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.
I find nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's not a case of every single Mayo posters backing the players unconditionally. H&C were weak, very weak and they allowed dominant characters too dominate proceedings which pissed off other players and this had a snowballing effect...
Sean Boylan or Jim Gavin or any other manager of note including James Horan would never allow this to happen.
The awesome twosome got a remit; manage the team and this they did not do.
My problem here is that the two of them are bleating away in public about the nasty bullies who wouldn't do what they were told, as all good little boys should. FFS, there was and always be tensions in any panel who have ambitions of any sort to better themselves. I'd expect that a good number on the Mayo or any other panel don't get on well with some of the others. If there is no jockeying for positions then any team won't get anywhere.
H&C were given a prominent platform to present their side of things without any effort being made to bring a sense of objectivity into their presentation. Breheny made no effort to do this and I can't understand why so many posters here seem to feel that what he wrote is the definitive account of what really happened.
I'd say the vast majority of Mayo fans would like both sides of the argument to be presented if there is a need to wash the dirty linen in public, do so in an evenhanded manner.
The point you're missing Lar is how tenable is the current management's position?
It's clear as day the players selected the goalkeeper for the replayed final. To me that is the point of no return for any management team.
This goes far beyond anything to do with previous management's teams not being up to it.
It brings into question the integrity of the current selection and who is making the decisions.
Where did you get fantasy this from?
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 07:04:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 20, 2016, 07:03:16 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: Buttofthehill on December 20, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.
It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.
I find nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's not a case of every single Mayo posters backing the players unconditionally. H&C were weak, very weak and they allowed dominant characters too dominate proceedings which pissed off other players and this had a snowballing effect...
Sean Boylan or Jim Gavin or any other manager of note including James Horan would never allow this to happen.
The awesome twosome got a remit; manage the team and this they did not do.
My problem here is that the two of them are bleating away in public about the nasty bullies who wouldn't do what they were told, as all good little boys should. FFS, there was and always be tensions in any panel who have ambitions of any sort to better themselves. I'd expect that a good number on the Mayo or any other panel don't get on well with some of the others. If there is no jockeying for positions then any team won't get anywhere.
H&C were given a prominent platform to present their side of things without any effort being made to bring a sense of objectivity into their presentation. Breheny made no effort to do this and I can't understand why so many posters here seem to feel that what he wrote is the definitive account of what really happened.
I'd say the vast majority of Mayo fans would like both sides of the argument to be presented if there is a need to wash the dirty linen in public, do so in an evenhanded manner.
The point you're missing Lar is how tenable is the current management's position?
It's clear as day the players selected the goalkeeper for the replayed final. To me that is the point of no return for any management team.
This goes far beyond anything to do with previous management's teams not being up to it.
It brings into question the integrity of the current selection and who is making the decisions.
Where did you get fantasy this from?
Couldn't be any more fantasist than your blinkered contributions on this thread?
Do you blame Holmes and Connelly for 2015?
Quote from: Itchy on December 19, 2016, 07:45:30 PM
One of the most damning things about the whole episode is why no explanation was given to the management as to why they were being told to leave.
A more detailed explanation was given to management. That more detailed explanation hasn't appeared in the interview with the Independent. It's absence could explain some of the confusion outside the county towards the general attitude inside the county to the whole thing.
The players could make a statement of course, but what would be the point? After all, as Syferus points out, the former management's story
Quote from: Syferus on December 20, 2016, 12:31:18 AM
hardly even reads particularly sensationally.
Why bore the nation further?
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
The media response seems to be pro-player in general.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html)
Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.
Well that's exactly it. The Off the Ball crew were almost indigently pro the players on both the wireless and on twitter. You'd swear they were personally related to half of them. But as you say H & C are of no use to them now. Some of the players will probably be asked on for interviews in the future so makes sense to keep them sweet.
Must say I found the weekend piece an interesting one. Not a fan of breheny but he hit on a good one there. Was talk of our workplace all week. Most GAA lads found it revealing too, especially re:goalkeeping selection hints. What's not said about the logistics guy is fascinating too...was he a Roman abromovich type sugar daddy & some were unhappy when Molly was taken away.
Indo was sold out all round here on the Saturday. While a few wondered why H & C bothered general sentiment was that it was revealing. The lack of specifics way back when was kind of strange.
Agree its strange that the mayos here are very 1sided & I get the anger at your county board. Loyalty to players is admirable, they're the ones ye cheer in the future. However, the "H & C were good servants but should have hone quietly into the dark night" attitude is baffling.
From a neutral view I thought Mayo went backwards last year & missed a gilt-edged opportunity against a Dublin side that were nothing to the 2015 version.
The talent & appetite is there for Mayo... Having too many balls in the air (interviews\mcguiness denials\sports swaps\concerns outside playing)means keeping the eye on the one that matters is difficult.if they lock down mcguinness style & adopt a " prove every1 wrong(in their eyes) attitude" they could actually prove every1 (h & c included) right.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on December 20, 2016, 08:11:45 PM
A more detailed explanation was given to management. That more detailed explanation hasn't appeared in the interview with the Independent. It's absence could explain some of the confusion outside the county towards the general attitude inside the county to the whole thing.
Are you suggesting that the more detailed explanation was shared with people in Mayo? That's simply not true.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 20, 2016, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
The media response seems to be pro-player in general.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html)
Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.
Well that's exactly it. The Off the Ball crew were almost indigently pro the players on both the wireless and on twitter. You'd swear they were personally related to half of them. But as you say H & C are of no use to them now. Some of the players will probably be asked on for interviews in the future so makes sense to keep them sweet.
+1
A sorry indictment of sports journalism in this country. The one time in forever we get a real coup half the media are too afraid of angering sources to even attempt to side with the mangers when common sense and simply looking atbwhat happened pre and most H&C tells you this is a murky tale on all sides. Doesn't bode well for those same journalists pulling off similar scoops in the future, does it?
Quote from: INDIANA on December 20, 2016, 07:03:16 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: Buttofthehill on December 20, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.
It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.
I find nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's not a case of every single Mayo posters backing the players unconditionally. H&C were weak, very weak and they allowed dominant characters too dominate proceedings which pissed off other players and this had a snowballing effect...
Sean Boylan or Jim Gavin or any other manager of note including James Horan would never allow this to happen.
The awesome twosome got a remit; manage the team and this they did not do.
My problem here is that the two of them are bleating away in public about the nasty bullies who wouldn't do what they were told, as all good little boys should. FFS, there was and always be tensions in any panel who have ambitions of any sort to better themselves. I'd expect that a good number on the Mayo or any other panel don't get on well with some of the others. If there is no jockeying for positions then any team won't get anywhere.
H&C were given a prominent platform to present their side of things without any effort being made to bring a sense of objectivity into their presentation. Breheny made no effort to do this and I can't understand why so many posters here seem to feel that what he wrote is the definitive account of what really happened.
I'd say the vast majority of Mayo fans would like both sides of the argument to be presented if there is a need to wash the dirty linen in public, do so in an evenhanded manner.
The point you're missing Lar is how tenable is the current management's position?
It's clear as day the players selected the goalkeeper for the replayed final. To me that is the point of no return for any management team.
This goes far beyond anything to do with previous management's teams not being up to it.
It brings into question the integrity of the current selection and who is making the decisions.
Ah no, I don't think anyone in Mayo has not wondered about the change of goalie. It's nowhere as clear as day that a pressure group forced Rochford to act against his better judgement.
You see, you are not talking about schoolboys here. That Mayo team has plenty of lads who wouldn't be pushed around too easily by anyone.
The idea that all of them were cowed into submission by a couple of colleagues seems fantastical.
Dunno much about Rochford really but it's telling that there was no signs of rancour in the camp throughout the 2016 season, right up to the team announcement for the reply.
Let's say that a bunch of hard chaws pressured the panel into calling for the removal of H&C when the team were performing quite well.
Now, along comes Rochford a newbie at intercounty managership level. and his team performed very poorly indeed. It took an incredible run of good luck to bring Mayo into this year's All Ireland.
They seemed to have re-discovered their cojones at that stage but it took a miracle to take them there. Now, there wasn't a dicky bird from inside the camp to indicate that there was tension in the setup. Most of Mayo were on the alert for any signs of trouble because the way the team started off would indicate that all wasn't well but all seemed under control right throughout the season.
Going by the local papers, out today, all of last year's panel have indicated that they are available for next year, so it appears that there's no fallout over the goalie switch either.
Unlike the armchair experts who know far more about Mayo football than the entire number of Mayo posters on the board, I find the whole setup is far from straightforward.
Hurry up and get to 100 pages.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 09:51:30 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 20, 2016, 07:03:16 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: Buttofthehill on December 20, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.
It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.
I find nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's not a case of every single Mayo posters backing the players unconditionally. H&C were weak, very weak and they allowed dominant characters too dominate proceedings which pissed off other players and this had a snowballing effect...
Sean Boylan or Jim Gavin or any other manager of note including James Horan would never allow this to happen.
The awesome twosome got a remit; manage the team and this they did not do.
My problem here is that the two of them are bleating away in public about the nasty bullies who wouldn't do what they were told, as all good little boys should. FFS, there was and always be tensions in any panel who have ambitions of any sort to better themselves. I'd expect that a good number on the Mayo or any other panel don't get on well with some of the others. If there is no jockeying for positions then any team won't get anywhere.
H&C were given a prominent platform to present their side of things without any effort being made to bring a sense of objectivity into their presentation. Breheny made no effort to do this and I can't understand why so many posters here seem to feel that what he wrote is the definitive account of what really happened.
I'd say the vast majority of Mayo fans would like both sides of the argument to be presented if there is a need to wash the dirty linen in public, do so in an evenhanded manner.
The point you're missing Lar is how tenable is the current management's position?
It's clear as day the players selected the goalkeeper for the replayed final. To me that is the point of no return for any management team.
This goes far beyond anything to do with previous management's teams not being up to it.
It brings into question the integrity of the current selection and who is making the decisions.
That Mayo team has plenty of lads who wouldn't be pushed around too easily by anyone.
Too right:
http://rsvpmagazine.ie/mayos-aidan-oshea-refused-entry-to-dublin-club/
Cross these fellas and you'll get a passive aggressive tweet or an email wondering why the little brother isn't playing
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:04:38 PM
Too right:
http://rsvpmagazine.ie/mayos-aidan-oshea-refused-entry-to-dublin-club/
Cross these fellas and you'll get a passive aggressive tweet or an email wondering why the little brother isn't playing
What do you get if you cross Diarmuid Connelly?
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 08:23:50 PM
Must say I found the weekend piece an interesting one. Not a fan of breheny but he hit on a good one there. Was talk of our workplace all week. Most GAA lads found it revealing too, especially re:goalkeeping selection hints. What's not said about the logistics guy is fascinating too...was he a Roman abromovich type sugar daddy & some were unhappy when Molly was taken away.
Indo was sold out all round here on the Saturday. While a few wondered why H & C bothered general sentiment was that it was revealing. The lack of specifics way back when was kind of strange.
Agree its strange that the mayos here are very 1sided & I get the anger at your county board. Loyalty to players is admirable, they're the ones ye cheer in the future. However, the "H & C were good servants but should have hone quietly into the dark night" attitude is baffling.
From a neutral view I thought Mayo went backwards last year & missed a gilt-edged opportunity against a Dublin side that were nothing to the 2015 version.
The talent & appetite is there for Mayo... Having too many balls in the air (interviews\mcguiness denials\sports swaps\concerns outside playing)means keeping the eye on the one that matters is difficult.if they lock down mcguinness style & adopt a " prove every1 wrong(in their eyes) attitude" they could actually prove every1 (h & c included) right.
You are lecturing a county squad and their supporters on the basis of a Martin Breheny Indo article?
Quote from: Rossfan on December 20, 2016, 09:53:36 PM
Hurry up and get to 100 pages.
FFS, would you ever organised a rescue party and take that loola off our hands! ;D
Get him back where he belongs and where people can understand (a bit of) what's he goes on about. Not much I know but still it's more than we can make sense of here.
He's a health risk as it is and we are concerned for his safety and state of mind. ;D
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 09:51:30 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 20, 2016, 07:03:16 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: Buttofthehill on December 20, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.
It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.
I find nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's not a case of every single Mayo posters backing the players unconditionally. H&C were weak, very weak and they allowed dominant characters too dominate proceedings which pissed off other players and this had a snowballing effect...
Sean Boylan or Jim Gavin or any other manager of note including James Horan would never allow this to happen.
The awesome twosome got a remit; manage the team and this they did not do.
My problem here is that the two of them are bleating away in public about the nasty bullies who wouldn't do what they were told, as all good little boys should. FFS, there was and always be tensions in any panel who have ambitions of any sort to better themselves. I'd expect that a good number on the Mayo or any other panel don't get on well with some of the others. If there is no jockeying for positions then any team won't get anywhere.
H&C were given a prominent platform to present their side of things without any effort being made to bring a sense of objectivity into their presentation. Breheny made no effort to do this and I can't understand why so many posters here seem to feel that what he wrote is the definitive account of what really happened.
I'd say the vast majority of Mayo fans would like both sides of the argument to be presented if there is a need to wash the dirty linen in public, do so in an evenhanded manner.
The point you're missing Lar is how tenable is the current management's position?
It's clear as day the players selected the goalkeeper for the replayed final. To me that is the point of no return for any management team.
This goes far beyond anything to do with previous management's teams not being up to it.
It brings into question the integrity of the current selection and who is making the decisions.
Ah no, I don't think anyone in Mayo has not wondered about the change of goalie. It's nowhere as clear as day that a pressure group forced Rochford to act against his better judgement.
You see, you are not talking about schoolboys here. That Mayo team has plenty of lads who wouldn't be pushed around too easily by anyone.
The idea that all of them were cowed into submission by a couple of colleagues seems fantastical.
Dunno much about Rochford really but it's telling that there was no signs of rancour in the camp throughout the 2016 season, right up to the team announcement for the reply.
Let's say that a bunch of hard chaws pressured the panel into calling for the removal of H&C when the team were performing quite well.
Now, along comes Rochford a newbie at intercounty managership level. and his team performed very poorly indeed. It took an incredible run of good luck to bring Mayo into this year's All Ireland.
They seemed to have re-discovered their cojones at that stage but it took a miracle to take them there. Now, there wasn't a dicky bird from inside the camp to indicate that there was tension in the setup. Most of Mayo were on the alert for any signs of trouble because the way the team started off would indicate that all wasn't well but all seemed under control right throughout the season.
Going by the local papers, out today, all of last year's panel have indicated that they are available for next year, so it appears that there's no fallout over the goalie switch either.
Unlike the armchair experts who know far more about Mayo football than the entire number of Mayo posters on the board, I find the whole setup is far from straightforward.
Lar, they've effectively ditched one management team.
Rochford could have suggested the players train in full-length ballgowns and they wouldn't have said a word.
Fwiw I think Mayo were a better side in 2015 and so were Dublin.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 10:45:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 20, 2016, 09:53:36 PM
Hurry up and get to 100 pages.
FFS, would you ever organised a rescue party and take that loola off our hands! ;D
Get him back where he belongs and where people can understand (a bit of) what's he goes on about. Not much I know but still it's more than we can make sense of here.
He's a health risk as it is and we are concerned for his safety and state of mind. ;D
Safer ta lave him meitherin ye crowd ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2016, 01:10:08 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 10:45:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 20, 2016, 09:53:36 PM
Hurry up and get to 100 pages.
FFS, would you ever organised a rescue party and take that loola off our hands! ;D
Get him back where he belongs and where people can understand (a bit of) what's he goes on about. Not much I know but still it's more than we can make sense of here.
He's a health risk as it is and we are concerned for his safety and state of mind. ;D
Safer ta lave him meitherin ye crowd ;D
Right, if that's the way you want it! I'm gonna cancel the pressie I was going to give you for Christmas, so there!
PS Anyone interested in a secondhand bale of mouldy hay?
All offers considered.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 12:04:40 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 09:51:30 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 20, 2016, 07:03:16 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 20, 2016, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: Buttofthehill on December 20, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on December 20, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Quote from: Buckass on December 20, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
There's no inus on H & C to have the best interests of Mayo football in mind when they're setting the record straight. Why should they be expected to remain silent when every half-truth peddled about them gained credence due to their silence. To suggest they broke trusts is also off..you cant break whats already been broken. Id imagine both men and their families lost many nights sleep with the whole affair; now they`ve set it straight they can move on.
Calling them 'old school' is nonsense when all the gps stuff, high end camera work etc was being done. If old school means managing and not taking input in selection from guys whose job it is to play, then jim Gavin, Michael Ryan, fitzmsurice and Cody are positively dinosaurs.
There'll be no player answer... Not because they're "bigger than that" but because they know that H & C s account is the reality. H & C can move on with their heads up; if the mayo players look honestly at themselves and this affair (as Cunniffe did) then they perhaps can too. Rochford & mc Entee
Can also add to their experience of the group by what has been revealed. If they learn and address matters, Mayo can be bettered by it.
Oh for FFS.
Record straight me hole. They've given their version of events as they saw it, hardly the definite recount of what went on.
Not even taking into account what went on through the year, believe me lads...face palm stuff,.they were hit below the water line from the start due to the shambolic way they were appointed.
Kevin McStay in comparison has shown true class by how he's conducted himself since.
Genuine question - what's the issue with the appointment process? Why was it such a deal breaker?
There wasn't some huge transparant process for Jim Gavin's appointment - he was offered the position and after some haggling took it
Just playing Devil's Advocate here Heffo, but I remember things threatening to go sour with regards the appointment of Gilroy and Whelan in 2009/early champo 2010. Vincents ruling the roost etc. All turned out well of course but when Meath/Kerry/(nearly wexford) handed them their arses, it wasnt so rosy.
Am aware of that but in Gilroy's case that wasn't down to anyone pulling strokes around his appointment - Jim Gavin got a fair interview for the position at the time.
It's also not so long ago that Dublin were the basket case's of disfunctionality - I just cant get my head around the universal support of the player's from Mayo posters even if H&C were weak.
I find nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's not a case of every single Mayo posters backing the players unconditionally. H&C were weak, very weak and they allowed dominant characters too dominate proceedings which pissed off other players and this had a snowballing effect...
Sean Boylan or Jim Gavin or any other manager of note including James Horan would never allow this to happen.
The awesome twosome got a remit; manage the team and this they did not do.
My problem here is that the two of them are bleating away in public about the nasty bullies who wouldn't do what they were told, as all good little boys should. FFS, there was and always be tensions in any panel who have ambitions of any sort to better themselves. I'd expect that a good number on the Mayo or any other panel don't get on well with some of the others. If there is no jockeying for positions then any team won't get anywhere.
H&C were given a prominent platform to present their side of things without any effort being made to bring a sense of objectivity into their presentation. Breheny made no effort to do this and I can't understand why so many posters here seem to feel that what he wrote is the definitive account of what really happened.
I'd say the vast majority of Mayo fans would like both sides of the argument to be presented if there is a need to wash the dirty linen in public, do so in an evenhanded manner.
The point you're missing Lar is how tenable is the current management's position?
It's clear as day the players selected the goalkeeper for the replayed final. To me that is the point of no return for any management team.
This goes far beyond anything to do with previous management's teams not being up to it.
It brings into question the integrity of the current selection and who is making the decisions.
Ah no, I don't think anyone in Mayo has not wondered about the change of goalie. It's nowhere as clear as day that a pressure group forced Rochford to act against his better judgement.
You see, you are not talking about schoolboys here. That Mayo team has plenty of lads who wouldn't be pushed around too easily by anyone.
The idea that all of them were cowed into submission by a couple of colleagues seems fantastical.
Dunno much about Rochford really but it's telling that there was no signs of rancour in the camp throughout the 2016 season, right up to the team announcement for the reply.
Let's say that a bunch of hard chaws pressured the panel into calling for the removal of H&C when the team were performing quite well.
Now, along comes Rochford a newbie at intercounty managership level. and his team performed very poorly indeed. It took an incredible run of good luck to bring Mayo into this year's All Ireland.
They seemed to have re-discovered their cojones at that stage but it took a miracle to take them there. Now, there wasn't a dicky bird from inside the camp to indicate that there was tension in the setup. Most of Mayo were on the alert for any signs of trouble because the way the team started off would indicate that all wasn't well but all seemed under control right throughout the season.
Going by the local papers, out today, all of last year's panel have indicated that they are available for next year, so it appears that there's no fallout over the goalie switch either.
Unlike the armchair experts who know far more about Mayo football than the entire number of Mayo posters on the board, I find the whole setup is far from straightforward.
Lar, they've effectively ditched one management team.
Rochford could have suggested the players train in full-length ballgowns and they wouldn't have said a word.
Fwiw I think Mayo were a better side in 2015 and so were Dublin.
Nah. Better to watch maybe in 2015. Dublin and Mayo just got more defensive this year. The own goals and goalkeeper meltdowns from Mayo were a big swing. Dublin got their goalie meltdown in semi v Kerry where there was enough difference between the teams that meant it wasn't critical. Mayo also got the wrong end of the stick as regards some decisions in replay. Them's the breaks. Lose a combined final + replay, played over about 150 mins by a point (missing a relatively easy free to send replay into xtra time), and dismissed as a shower of losers/bottlers/chokers. That's the way it is I suppose. High standards out there.
I think H and C also thought the players were bottlers and chokers and not tough enough when they came in judging by there comments regarding the Kerry replay the previous year when they told them that Kerry had bullied them.Can you imagine what the players thought when they heard that as you can say all you want about there performances and the mistakes that were made but being bullied was not some thing any body with an ounce of credibility could level at this group.
Quote from: maigheo on December 21, 2016, 01:45:51 AM
I think H and C also thought the players were bottlers and chokers and not tough enough when they came in judging by there comments regarding the Kerry replay the previous year when they told them that Kerry had bullied them.Can you imagine what the players thought when they heard that as you can say all you want about there performances and the mistakes that were made but being bullied was not some thing any body with an ounce of credibility could level at this group.
Donegal 2012. Kerry 2014. Dublin 2015.
Easier to be the tough guys earlier in the season. Mayo may not be bullied regularly but they have never had the killers the above teams had in the white heat of the championship. Maybe only Keegan and Boyle (at his peak) you could say had that. Trevor Mortimer looked like he had it back in 2011 too. I suppose it's hard for a management to fix something if players don't even accept it needs fixing.
Martin Breheny is really milking it now with another article today on the same topic.
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2016, 10:37:50 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 20, 2016, 10:04:38 PM
Too right:
http://rsvpmagazine.ie/mayos-aidan-oshea-refused-entry-to-dublin-club/
Cross these fellas and you'll get a passive aggressive tweet or an email wondering why the little brother isn't playing
What do you get if you cross Diarmuid Connelly?
Reminded you're not playing Sligo now
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/w540/Library/SF150/795558.jpg)
(http://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/d/diarmuidConnollyJerseyTornVMayo_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-421706)
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
The media response seems to be pro-player in general.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html)
Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.
Lemme get this straight. ;D ;D
The media in general are backing the players out of self interest whereas, Martin Breheny is presenting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
No question that the media in general have noticed the contradictions, vague assertions and off the wall comments his work of fiction is plastered with?
At one stage, H&C mentioned the fact that a player left his notes in the hotel and the squad blamed the management.
Now, the players are on record as saying that H&C were the ones to forget the notes.
And you, from what I've read have no trouble in accepting the managers' version.
I think it's time for me to get to f**k outta here. I don't have a job to go to so any time I waste is my own.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 21, 2016, 08:27:34 AM
Martin Breheny is really milking it now with another article today on the same topic.
Completely to be expected. The gobshite will live off this for years.
Quote from: Tubberman on December 21, 2016, 09:21:59 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 21, 2016, 08:27:34 AM
Martin Breheny is really milking it now with another article today on the same topic.
Completely to be expected. The gobshite will live off this for years.
Keep your head in the sand. Meanwhile counties are praying they will get Mayo on their side of the draw. Small town big heads looking for excuses as to why they bottle it.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2016, 09:02:39 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
The media response seems to be pro-player in general.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html)
Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.
Lemme get this straight. ;D ;D
The media in general are backing the players out of self interest whereas, Martin Breheny is presenting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
No question that the media in general have noticed the contradictions, vague assertions and off the wall comments his work of fiction is plastered with?
At one stage, H&C mentioned the fact that a player left his notes in the hotel and the squad blamed the management.
Now, the players are on record as saying that H&C were the ones to forget the notes.
And you, from what I've read have no trouble in accepting the managers' version.
I think it's time for me to get to f**k outta here. I don't have a job to go to so any time I waste is my own.
Where?
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 21, 2016, 09:53:17 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 21, 2016, 09:21:59 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 21, 2016, 08:27:34 AM
Martin Breheny is really milking it now with another article today on the same topic.
Completely to be expected. The gobshite will live off this for years.
Keep your head in the sand. Meanwhile counties are praying they will get Mayo on their side of the draw. Small town big heads looking for excuses as to why they bottle it.
Haha. Thats the solution alright. Pray you get Mayo. They cant all get them thou so they may have to try something else.
I wonder at times is this board a true reflection of GAA supporters or has a larger amount of loons then normal congregated here
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 10:02:44 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2016, 09:02:39 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
The media response seems to be pro-player in general.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html)
Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.
Lemme get this straight. ;D ;D
The media in general are backing the players out of self interest whereas, Martin Breheny is presenting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
No question that the media in general have noticed the contradictions, vague assertions and off the wall comments his work of fiction is plastered with?
At one stage, H&C mentioned the fact that a player left his notes in the hotel and the squad blamed the management.
Now, the players are on record as saying that H&C were the ones to forget the notes.
And you, from what I've read have no trouble in accepting the managers' version.
I think it's time for me to get to f**k outta here. I don't have a job to go to so any time I waste is my own.
Where?
I think you both have it wrong ..... search for 'notes' in this article: http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/29159-who-really-benefits-from-holmes-connelly-interview (http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/29159-who-really-benefits-from-holmes-connelly-interview)
Not sure how that constitutes me having it wrong.
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 21, 2016, 09:53:17 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 21, 2016, 09:21:59 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 21, 2016, 08:27:34 AM
Martin Breheny is really milking it now with another article today on the same topic.
Completely to be expected. The gobshite will live off this for years.
Keep your head in the sand. Meanwhile counties are praying they will get Mayo on their side of the draw. Small town big heads looking for excuses as to why they bottle it.
Which counties would those be!? Which of them would have relished playing Mayo over the last 6 years tell me?
Quote from: blast05 on December 21, 2016, 11:07:36 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 10:02:44 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2016, 09:02:39 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
The media response seems to be pro-player in general.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html)
Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.
Lemme get this straight. ;D ;D
The media in general are backing the players out of self interest whereas, Martin Breheny is presenting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
No question that the media in general have noticed the contradictions, vague assertions and off the wall comments his work of fiction is plastered with?
At one stage, H&C mentioned the fact that a player left his notes in the hotel and the squad blamed the management.
Now, the players are on record as saying that H&C were the ones to forget the notes.
And you, from what I've read have no trouble in accepting the managers' version.
I think it's time for me to get to f**k outta here. I don't have a job to go to so any time I waste is my own.
Where?
I think you both have it wrong ..... search for 'notes' in this article: http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/29159-who-really-benefits-from-holmes-connelly-interview (http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/29159-who-really-benefits-from-holmes-connelly-interview)
Which suggests the crux of the issue. Notes can be mislaid. The content of the notes would be interesting to read.
From the article above:
'..We feel that misses the point; what is bad about that particular episode is not who left them behind, but some of the content of the notes (which The Mayo News has seen)...'
Who honestly cares about this story now? Mayo have still won nothing. The only thing that matters is whether or not Mayo can improve over the winter to deliver Sam in 2017. If I was Rochford I would get Mickey Linden in to deliver a talk to the players.
This article from October of last year by Damian Lawlor is worth another look in light of recent events.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/damian-lawlor-shambolic-appointment-process-sowed-seeds-of-discontent-in-mayo-31580050.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/damian-lawlor-shambolic-appointment-process-sowed-seeds-of-discontent-in-mayo-31580050.html)
Shambolic appointment process sowed seeds of discontent in Mayo
The best outcome was a quick resolution, and thankfully for Mayo football that is the case. Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly, two honourable men, have stepped down. But when it comes to disputes like this one, outcomes are rarely resolved without serious consequences. The hurt from this episode will linger for years. Friendships, relationships and trusts have been damaged. Some will never be repaired.
Mayo are a top four side, pushing hard for an All-Ireland title, and despite last week's events they remain an attractive side for an ambitious manager.
The players' unhappiness only became public last week but it had been bubbling away for some time beneath the surface. On Tuesday, local media carried reports of a player heave, and some of the reports looked to be loaded against the players.
By Wednesday, the Mayo County Board executive was in fire-fighting mode. They have a good relationship with the players, and on Thursday night, two board officers and player representatives met. But while a compromise was sought - one that Holmes and Connelly, may or may not have welcomed - there was absolutely no backing down by the players: they wanted change.
The meeting lasted just 10 minutes. Twenty-eight players turned up, all wearing official Mayo tracksuit tops. They arrived and left together, heads bowed, making no comment. It was a brief but clinical show of solidarity. Two players were out of the country, two others in Dublin. But even those players who had voted in favour of keeping the co-managers were present. The message was to the point: the players had tried to do things properly, trying to keep their affairs private until details were leaked to the media. From that point, the departure of the two managers was inevitable, the only surprise being perhaps that it came the very next day.
At the initial meeting of players, the vote had been 27-7 in favour of a new management. The players kept that meeting quiet, met the management and it was suggested that the managers could resign for their own reasons, without any need for player concerns or grievances to be made public. But it didn't play out like that and the squad were furious when news of their vote subsequently appeared in the local media.
When it was revealed that players such as Lee Keegan had not voted for change, players grew angrier. The seven who voted for Holmes and Connelly had valid reasons for doing so but those public reports on Keegan's stance only galvanised the panel. From there they pledged to put forward a united front; hence the steely show of unity on Thursday night.
The players felt things were below par from the start, although both managers dispute that. When Holmes and Connelly came in, they did so as All-Ireland winning managers, having guided many of the current seniors as under 21s in 2006. They pledged to step things up from James Horan's time in charge and while they may not have fared much worse, they certainly didn't fare better.
Their approach was entirely different to Horan's, in many aspects more traditional and robust. From the early weeks of their tenure there had been whispers that the players were unhappy, but ultimately the squad waited until after the All-Ireland final to take action.
Perhaps the roots of this dispute trace right back to when Horan stepped down and Kevin McStay was thought to be the frontrunner to replace him. McStay was asked last year on The Sunday Game if he wanted the job and said he would be interested if he got a call. On the Saturday after Mayo lost to Kerry, the media also contacted Holmes and asked if he wanted the job. He said it was not for him. Journalists also contacted John Maughan and others to inquire of their interest. Noel Connelly was contacted and replied that he was already training a team and wasn't getting into a discussion on the matter, that it was not a runner.
Ultimately, though, the two men who ended up managing Mayo were among those who had said they didn't want to do it. McStay, the only man to put his hand up for the job, was overlooked. Instead he and Liam McHale will work with Roscommon for the next three years. That episode left a sour taste.
This formed part of the backdrop to Thursday night's meeting, when the board hoped a solution could be found. But they quickly found out that you can't shake hands with a clenched fist.
Insiders say there was no major falling out, merely a gradual erosion of confidence in the management team. The players acknowledged that there are plenty of good people in both the county board and management set-ups but reiterated how they felt that this appointment wasn't right from the start. Within two to three months they felt they had taken a big step backwards, and tried to communicate that.
It was a big statement to make. After all, Holmes and Connelly delivered a Connacht title this year and oversaw a comeback against Dublin in the drawn All-Ireland semi-final. The introduction of Andy Moran from the sideline helped fuel that fightback. And when they had Dublin on the rack it was the players themselves who failed to push on in the replay. But the players argued that if things were not right behind the scenes, it was eventually going to catch up with them.
The squad had been closeted within a high-performance environment created by Horan, and their expectations were high. Senior players met with Holmes and Connelly last October and listened as the new bosses went through their plans, and alarm bells sounded immediately when they were informed that a new medical team had been appointed. The players looked for certain members of the old backroom team to be reinstated, and in fairness members of the old guard were brought back, with some of the incoming team being told they were not now needed. One member of those reinstated, however, stepped away soon after his return, citing work commitments.
From there, the panel said they were unhappy with the manner of communication from the top down, claiming that there was a lack of organisation within the camp and bemoaning the fact that squad players were not allowed travel on match days, yet the 24-strong backroom staff were. For their part, the co-managers would argue that the large backroom was purely to cater for the squad's needs.
Attention was also drawn to the fact that so many members of the backroom team were in the dressing room on match days, with the players complaining that there were too many people within their circle of trust on match days.
Before they played Dublin, some of the team could not conceal their disbelief that the game-plan and tactical notes on Dublin, had been left behind at the team hotel.
There were a number of heated arguments between management and players during the year as players demanded higher standards. Against Galway, eight of the extended squad did not tog out and were left without tickets to get into the game. But the county board wasn't made aware of this until after the game, and maybe the same applies to management.
Gradually, confidence in the set-up drained, although the players remain adamant that they tried to front up by telling management and board members of their concerns. They also said that the coaching, and the strength and conditioning expertise, to give two examples, were top class. So when the entire backroom team of 24 people were listed in local media reports it came across as if the players had no confidence in any of them. This only angered the players more.
Most of the players are in their mid-20s. If they are to win an All-Ireland it will have to be in the next two to three years, or else another generation of Mayo footballers will depart without the ultimate prize - perhaps the most promising generation of all. The stakes are high.
Quote from: blast05 on December 21, 2016, 11:07:36 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 10:02:44 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2016, 09:02:39 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
The media response seems to be pro-player in general.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html)
Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.
Lemme get this straight. ;D ;D
The media in general are backing the players out of self interest whereas, Martin Breheny is presenting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
No question that the media in general have noticed the contradictions, vague assertions and off the wall comments his work of fiction is plastered with?
At one stage, H&C mentioned the fact that a player left his notes in the hotel and the squad blamed the management.
Now, the players are on record as saying that H&C were the ones to forget the notes.
And you, from what I've read have no trouble in accepting the managers' version.
I think it's time for me to get to f**k outta here. I don't have a job to go to so any time I waste is my own.
Where?
I think you both have it wrong ..... search for 'notes' in this article: http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/29159-who-really-benefits-from-holmes-connelly-interview (http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/29159-who-really-benefits-from-holmes-connelly-interview)
I know I said I was getting out while I still have a little bit of sanity left but since it's yerself that's in it, I'll make a brief return.
You have confused me here.
I take it that this is what you are referring to.
"The article also refers to the notes on opposition player analysis left behind in the hotel before the drawn game with Dublin, and suggests that management should not be blamed as it was a player who left them behind.
We feel that misses the point; what is bad about that particular episode is not who left them behind, but some of the content of the notes."
Where does this contradict anything I said?
Somebody left those effin' notes behind.
Managers say they shouldn't be blamed but they obviously feel they are if English is to have any sense or meaning in this debate.
H&C claim that they players blamed them for leaving the notes behind; is that fair enough?
Otherwise we are supposed to believe that the players blamed the managers because one of their own (players) was the culprit.
Which is the more credible account?
In any event, that charge was circulating since the story broke.
I don't recall the name of the author just now ( Vincent something or other) who wrote the piece but the Sindo gave a very comprehensive and succinct version of the chain of events that led to the heave and that was one of them.
Loads of other sources listed the players' complaints as well so I won't bother me donkey going any further . It's in the record.
Incidentally, Edwin wrote a pretty fair-minded article and naturally, found fault with both sides but on balance sided with the players for the most part. And IMVHO he was bang on.
Quote from: Tubberman on December 21, 2016, 09:21:59 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 21, 2016, 08:27:34 AM
Martin Breheny is really milking it now with another article today on the same topic.
Completely to be expected. The gobshite will live off this for years.
Whats he got today. A top 20 of grievances from Holmes or 10 reasons why Noel Connelly thinks Mayo are bottlers.
The moment you've all been waiting for... Colm has his say.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/if-hes-serious-about-being-a-top-footballer-he-has-to-put-football-first-colm-orourke-on-criticism-of-aidan-oshea-35311519.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/if-hes-serious-about-being-a-top-footballer-he-has-to-put-football-first-colm-orourke-on-criticism-of-aidan-oshea-35311519.html)
'If he's serious about being a top footballer, he has to put football first': Colm O'Rourke on criticism of Aidan O'Shea
"It seems as if he [Aidan O'Shea], in particular, has come out worse out of this," O'Rourke said.
"As if he was the focus of some disenchantment with this particular management group. He has had three or four bad All-Ireland finals when it looked like he would dominate the GAA and it just hasn't happened for him. If Aidan O'Shea is serious about being a top player, then he has to put football first.
"It was obviously something that that particular management team found a bit extraordinary that people who were seeking their first All-Ireland seemed to be preoccupied with things outside. I would find it amazing that a player should be interested in anything other than winning an All-Ireland and that everything else comes after rather than before. It appears that some of them were putting the cart before the horse."
The forthright nature of Connelly and Holmes' interview has been the talk of the GAA world since their words were published last weekend, with O'Rourke expressing his surprise at the nature of some of their comments.
"I thought the two boys were very honest, they really put the knife in and twisted it several times," O'Rourke said.
"Maybe they got a lot off their chests but it was very harsh and very brutal, which you don't often see in the GAA."
"I thought the two boys were very honest, they really put the knife in and twisted it several times," O'Rourke said.
not sure meath people are sure of the definition of honesty and this from the principal of there larges School/human behavior centre
I was stabbed several times in Primary School and it didn't do me any harm.
Quote from: rosnarun on December 21, 2016, 03:26:22 PM
"I thought the two boys were very honest, they really put the knife in and twisted it several times," O'Rourke said.
not sure meath people are sure of the definition of honesty and this from the principal of there larges School/human behavior centre
He's from Leitrim anyways. They'd walk through all the bogs in Mayo barefoot to get a dig in at ye.
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
There are many ways of responding to a bad break-up.
You could contact Martin Breheny......
Or you could do what Billy Walsh did.....https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/)
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 21, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
I'm not so sure. Don't want to keep harking back to Jim Gavin but there is a manager who is hugely progressive but everyone knows their role.
A clubmate of his was in the backroom in 2013, at the end of the year he went to Jim with several unsolicited suggestions and gripes about areas he wasn't responsible for - he was thanked for his service and told he wouldn't be needed for 2014.
He wouldn't tolerate a player offering feedback or expressing surprise at the team selection and isn't a dinasour
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:30:26 PM
There are many ways of responding to a bad break-up.
You could contact Martin Breheny......
Or you could do what Billy Walsh did.....https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/)
Apples and oranges.
Walsh left of his own free will to go to a better job, he wasn't kicked out.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:30:26 PM
There are many ways of responding to a bad break-up.
You could contact Martin Breheny......
Or you could do what Billy Walsh did.....https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/)
Apples and oranges.
Walsh left of his own free will to go to a better job, he wasn't kicked out.
The point is how you respond. Do you prove everyone who didn't want you out wrong, or do you run to Martin Breheny?
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:30:26 PM
There are many ways of responding to a bad break-up.
You could contact Martin Breheny......
Or you could do what Billy Walsh did.....https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/)
I don't want to know what they were teaching the hairy Bears if they could have been in line for world boxing coach of the year.
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:30:26 PM
There are many ways of responding to a bad break-up.
You could contact Martin Breheny......
Or you could do what Billy Walsh did.....https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/)
Apples and oranges.
Walsh left of his own free will to go to a better job, he wasn't kicked out.
The point is how you respond. Do you prove everyone who didn't want you out wrong, or do you run to Martin Breheny?
But there's nowhere to go after you get the boot from managing your own county.
Their credibility as 'elite' level football managers has been irrevocably damaged.
They've been characterised as old-school, 'my way or the high way' types who don't communicate with their players.
How do they prove everyone who wanted them out wrong?
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:30:26 PM
There are many ways of responding to a bad break-up.
You could contact Martin Breheny......
Or you could do what Billy Walsh did.....https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/)
Apples and oranges.
Walsh left of his own free will to go to a better job, he wasn't kicked out.
The point is how you respond. Do you prove everyone who didn't want you out wrong, or do you run to Martin Breheny?
Billy Walsh did several radio interviews when he left. He also did interviews with Vincent Hogan in the independent who wrote extensively about it.
H&C and their families have had to listen to rumours & innuendo about their management and had to deal with a charge of incompetence from the Mayo squad. Why shouldn't they get to give their point of view. Those lads gave blood, sweat & tears for Mayo football only to get treated appallingly.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:30:26 PM
There are many ways of responding to a bad break-up.
You could contact Martin Breheny......
Or you could do what Billy Walsh did.....https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/)
Apples and oranges.
Walsh left of his own free will to go to a better job, he wasn't kicked out.
The point is how you respond. Do you prove everyone who didn't want you out wrong, or do you run to Martin Breheny?
But there's nowhere to go after you get the boot from managing your own county.
Their credibility as 'elite' level football managers has been irrevocably damaged.
They've been characterised as old-school, 'my way or the high way' types who don't communicate with their players.
How do they prove everyone who wanted them out wrong?
They did that to themselves in the interview.
You're making a fairly sweeping statement about nowhere to go. Look at Davy Fitz and how he reacted to 'divided opinions' of his players regarding his management.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 21, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
There is also the alternative management .
I want to get my club -mate on the team by " the senior members of the team"
With all due respect no self respecting county would anything Mayo are doing in relation to managing a top class inter county team
Cliques destroy the common collective of any group. And it's as clear as day there is a clique on the Mayo team dragging it into the manure business
Quote from: INDIANA on December 21, 2016, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 21, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
There is also the alternative management .
I want to get my club -mate on the team by " the senior members of the team"
With all due respect no self respecting county would anything Mayo are doing in relation to managing a top class inter county team
Cliques destroy the common collective of any group. And it's as clear as day there is a clique on the Mayo team dragging it into the manure business
Again, where did you get this? The Indo?
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 21, 2016, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 21, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
There is also the alternative management .
I want to get my club -mate on the team by " the senior members of the team"
With all due respect no self respecting county would anything Mayo are doing in relation to managing a top class inter county team
Cliques destroy the common collective of any group. And it's as clear as day there is a clique on the Mayo team dragging it into the manure business
Again, where did you get this? The Indo?
Are you trying to say there isn't a clique? Sure even before this interview everyone knew that it was the Ballintubber-Breaffy axis that got the heave going. You're not really proving to be a reliable narrator on this when you won't accept what are to even most Mayo supporters basic facts.
Quote from: Syferus on December 21, 2016, 06:59:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 21, 2016, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 21, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
There is also the alternative management .
I want to get my club -mate on the team by " the senior members of the team"
With all due respect no self respecting county would anything Mayo are doing in relation to managing a top class inter county team
Cliques destroy the common collective of any group. And it's as clear as day there is a clique on the Mayo team dragging it into the manure business
Again, where did you get this? The Indo?
Are you trying to say there isn't a clique? Sure even before this interview everyone knew that it was the Ballintubber-Breaffy axis that got the heave going. You're not really proving to be a reliable narrator on this when you won't accept what are to even most Mayo supporters basic facts.
You have long claimed Aiden O'Shea tries to get his little brother picked. And you have long been wrong, as he has rarely been picked.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2016, 09:02:39 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 20, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
The media response seems to be pro-player in general.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/cheap-shots-have-harmed-mayo-436002.html)
Although I'm sure there's a certain amount of self-interest involved there.
H & C have no real value to most sports hacks.
Lemme get this straight. ;D ;D
The media in general are backing the players out of self interest whereas, Martin Breheny is presenting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
No question that the media in general have noticed the contradictions, vague assertions and off the wall comments his work of fiction is plastered with?
At one stage, H&C mentioned the fact that a player left his notes in the hotel and the squad blamed the management.
Now, the players are on record as saying that H&C were the ones to forget the notes.
And you, from what I've read have no trouble in accepting the managers' version.
I think it's time for me to get to f**k outta here. I don't have a job to go to so any time I waste is my own.
And you seem to have no problem accepting the player's version.
The difference is Connelly and Holmes have far more integrity about them than the players do.
You guys on here with your blind loyalty to the players and refusal to accept Holmes and Connelly were screwed over by a bunch of preening player incapable of introspection and burying their egos is bizarre.
Do you blame Holmes and Connelly for 2015?
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 21, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
It moreso vindicates Holmes and Connelly, players with big egos calling the shots for their clubmates and family members to be involved in the side. Hennelly brought in for the 2016 AI final and O'Shea going to matches with Rochford.
Mayo were no closer to winning an All Ireland in 2016 than they were the 5 years previous. Mayo players won't be vindicated until they win an AI and maybe it's the way the Mayo players are indulged by their own when they are out of order and have their egos running wild which is they haven't won an AI yet.
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 05:21:23 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 21, 2016, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 04:30:26 PM
There are many ways of responding to a bad break-up.
You could contact Martin Breheny......
Or you could do what Billy Walsh did.....https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2016/1221/840488-walsh-named-world-boxing-coach-of-the-year/)
Apples and oranges.
Walsh left of his own free will to go to a better job, he wasn't kicked out.
The point is how you respond. Do you prove everyone who didn't want you out wrong, or do you run to Martin Breheny?
But there's nowhere to go after you get the boot from managing your own county.
Their credibility as 'elite' level football managers has been irrevocably damaged.
They've been characterised as old-school, 'my way or the high way' types who don't communicate with their players.
How do they prove everyone who wanted them out wrong?
They did that to themselves in the interview.
You're making a fairly sweeping statement about nowhere to go. Look at Davy Fitz and how he reacted to 'divided opinions' of his players regarding his management.
The Mayo players characterised themselves as preening primadonnas with the way they undermined and drove H&C out.
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 21, 2016, 06:59:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 21, 2016, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 21, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
There is also the alternative management .
I want to get my club -mate on the team by " the senior members of the team"
With all due respect no self respecting county would anything Mayo are doing in relation to managing a top class inter county team
Cliques destroy the common collective of any group. And it's as clear as day there is a clique on the Mayo team dragging it into the manure business
Again, where did you get this? The Indo?
Are you trying to say there isn't a clique? Sure even before this interview everyone knew that it was the Ballintubber-Breaffy axis that got the heave going. You're not really proving to be a reliable narrator on this when you won't accept what are to even most Mayo supporters basic facts.
You have long claimed Aiden O'Shea tries to get his little brother picked. And you have long been wrong, as he has rarely been picked.
??
I've commented in jest about the younger brother because everyone and their mother knew about the O'Sheas having undue influence on team selection (or designs on it) over the last two seasons. I never seriously heard anything suggesting they were lobbying for their brother too.
My problem with that lad was entirely about him not being good enough for senior. Showed a little in a cameo at the end of this season but still has to convince a lot of people.
Quote from: Syferus on December 21, 2016, 07:35:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 21, 2016, 06:59:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 21, 2016, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 21, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
There is also the alternative management .
I want to get my club -mate on the team by " the senior members of the team"
With all due respect no self respecting county would anything Mayo are doing in relation to managing a top class inter county team
Cliques destroy the common collective of any group. And it's as clear as day there is a clique on the Mayo team dragging it into the manure business
Again, where did you get this? The Indo?
Are you trying to say there isn't a clique? Sure even before this interview everyone knew that it was the Ballintubber-Breaffy axis that got the heave going. You're not really proving to be a reliable narrator on this when you won't accept what are to even most Mayo supporters basic facts.
You have long claimed Aiden O'Shea tries to get his little brother picked. And you have long been wrong, as he has rarely been picked.
??
I've commented in jest about the younger brother because everyone and their mother knew about the O'Sheas having undue influence on team selection (or designs on it) over the last two seasons. I never seriously heard anything suggesting they were lobbying for their brother too.
My problem with that lad was entirely about him not being good enough for senior. Showed a little in a cameo at the end of this season but still has to convince a lot of people.
So let me gets this right. You claim the O'Shea's have an 'undue influence on team selection'. This despite the ousted management team, who stuck the knife in every way they could (twitter, Toughest Trade etc.), not actually making anything like this claim themselves.
You should also consider Hennelly not playing all summer, Hall not featuring and Conor hardly playing at all.
So who were they picking then?
Syfīn, Why have you a problem with whatever type of shenanigans the Rhus go on with when picking their teams.
Why are you obsessed with the hoors?
Are you not taking your tablets?
Or are you as many suspect ONE OF THEM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 08:00:00 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 21, 2016, 07:35:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 21, 2016, 06:59:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 21, 2016, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 21, 2016, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 21, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.
There is also the alternative management .
I want to get my club -mate on the team by " the senior members of the team"
With all due respect no self respecting county would anything Mayo are doing in relation to managing a top class inter county team
Cliques destroy the common collective of any group. And it's as clear as day there is a clique on the Mayo team dragging it into the manure business
Again, where did you get this? The Indo?
Are you trying to say there isn't a clique? Sure even before this interview everyone knew that it was the Ballintubber-Breaffy axis that got the heave going. You're not really proving to be a reliable narrator on this when you won't accept what are to even most Mayo supporters basic facts.
You have long claimed Aiden O'Shea tries to get his little brother picked. And you have long been wrong, as he has rarely been picked.
??
I've commented in jest about the younger brother because everyone and their mother knew about the O'Sheas having undue influence on team selection (or designs on it) over the last two seasons. I never seriously heard anything suggesting they were lobbying for their brother too.
My problem with that lad was entirely about him not being good enough for senior. Showed a little in a cameo at the end of this season but still has to convince a lot of people.
So let me gets this right. You claim the O'Shea's have an 'undue influence on team selection'. This despite the ousted management team, who stuck the knife in every way they could (twitter, Toughest Trade etc.), not actually making anything like this claim themselves.
You should also consider Hennelly not playing all summer, Hall not featuring and Conor hardly playing at all.
So who were they picking then?
Hennelly played in the only game that matters to that Mayo team.
And on it goes the same auld clowns pushing the same auld agendas
To some lads on this board this is like Christmas morning. Banging on about Aiden O'Shea having the biggest ego since Muhammad Ali.
And what it all boils down to is typical Irish begrudgery. You know having a set on a fella. And you know when you have a set on somebody they cant do anything right. O'Shea plays bad in a match, its the worse performance ever. He plays well, sure fcuk least he could be at. He has alot of twitter followers or appears on a TV show, well isn't that fella getting big for his boots. Time to take him down a peg or two
I wonder have some of these idiots even read this article or just looked at a line and said, sure fuckit I was right. I always told you that fella was a premadonna.
One lad keeps going on about how Jim Gavin would't stand for this like somehow this proves his long held opinion on O'Shea. Just to remind you. O'Shea didnt go to Sunderland and all he did was send an email to Holmes. That's it. Now Pat Holmes didn't seem to have a problem with it at the time because he based his whole team around O'Shea for 2015. Plan A, B and C. So really the problem here is with Holmes.
This whole article was an attempted hatchet job on the players from two bitter men. This has been coming for a while as they and their supporters have been spreading rumours all year about the players. The stories about who was picking the team etc all of a sudden appear in print from Holmes and Connelly. Some might say fair game after last year but the thing that really annoys me about this is the attempt to undermine Rochford all the way through it. Stuff like we stopped him doing the TV program but obviously Rochford couldn't, We stood up to Seamie O'Shea, obviously Rochford didnt. What did Rochford do on them.
They obviously feel aggrieved with the way they were dealt with last year and some may have sympathy with them but you have to remember that some of these players endured 4 years of mismanagement thanks to another County Board set up which finally ended below in Longford in 2010. Just like 2007 some thought there was a handy All Ireland going and they had to make sure the right manager was in place to take the plaudits. Well we seen how this worked out last time and fair play to the players they put an end to the sham happening again
Oh and Ill Bomber, you keep asking "Do you blame Holmes and Connelly for 2015". Everyone keeps ignoring you for some reason but its coming up to Christmas so ill engage.
The answer is no I don't. The same as I dont blame Rochford for 2016 or Horan 2011-2014. You see Gaelic Football is not as simple as do I blame this or that. There are a number of reasons why Mayo didn't win in 2015 same as 2016 but I wont be going into them in case I get accused of making excuses. But what I will say after reading that nonsense last weekend I know for a fact Mayo would not have been within an asses roar of winning in 2016 if management wasn't changed. It didn't work out for them, get over it
May I ask you, do you think Mickey Harte was to blame for Tyrone 2016
Quote from: criostlinn on December 21, 2016, 10:14:40 PM
And on it goes the same auld clowns pushing the same auld agendas
To some lads on this board this is like Christmas morning. Banging on about Aiden O'Shea having the biggest ego since Muhammad Ali.
And what it all boils down to is typical Irish begrudgery. You know having a set on a fella. And you know when you have a set on somebody they cant do anything right. O'Shea plays bad in a match, its the worse performance ever. He plays well, sure fcuk least he could be at. He has alot of twitter followers or appears on a TV show, well isn't that fella getting big for his boots. Time to take him down a peg or two
I wonder have some of these idiots even read this article or just looked at a line and said, sure fuckit I was right. I always told you that fella was a premadonna.
One lad keeps going on about how Jim Gavin would't stand for this like somehow this proves his long held opinion on O'Shea. Just to remind you. O'Shea didnt go to Sunderland and all he did was send an email to Holmes. That's it. Now Pat Holmes didn't seem to have a problem with it at the time because he based his whole team around O'Shea for 2015. Plan A, B and C. So really the problem here is with Holmes.
This whole article was an attempted hatchet job on the players from two bitter men. This has been coming for a while as they and their supporters have been spreading rumours all year about the players. The stories about who was picking the team etc all of a sudden appear in print from Holmes and Connelly. Some might say fair game after last year but the thing that really annoys me about this is the attempt to undermine Rochford all the way through it. Stuff like we stopped him doing the TV program but obviously Rochford couldn't, We stood up to Seamie O'Shea, obviously Rochford didnt. What did Rochford do on them.
They obviously feel aggrieved with the way they were dealt with last year and some may have sympathy with them but you have to remember that some of these players endured 4 years of mismanagement thanks to another County Board set up which finally ended below in Longford in 2010. Just like 2007 some thought there was a handy All Ireland going and they had to make sure the right manager was in place to take the plaudits. Well we seen how this worked out last time and fair play to the players they put an end to the sham happening again
Oh and Ill Bomber, you keep asking "Do you blame Holmes and Connelly for 2015". Everyone keeps ignoring you for some reason but its coming up to Christmas so ill engage.
The answer is no I don't. The same as I dont blame Rochford for 2016 or Horan 2011-2014. You see Gaelic Football is not as simple as do I blame this or that. There are a number of reasons why Mayo didn't win in 2015 same as 2016 but I wont be going into them in case I get accused of making excuses. But what I will say after reading that nonsense last weekend I know for a fact Mayo would not have been within an asses roar of winning in 2016 if management wasn't changed. It didn't work out for them, get over it
May I ask you, do you think Mickey Harte was to blame for Tyrone 2016
I always respected O'Shea as a player. I even thought of him as the best midfielder in the country until he/managers thought he was a CHF or FF and he got s bit lost out of position. Not a bad lad on the field apart from the diving, clumsy but not malicious like some big lads. Hardly begrudgery pointing out something that's there in black and white.
Quote from: Syferus on December 21, 2016, 10:52:42 PM
Hardly begrudgery pointing out something that's there in black and white.
If you have it in black and white, please show it to us.
I am pretty sure Bomber, Syferus and Indiana are the same person as there could not be 3 people with less of a clue about the Mayo GAA scene.And by the way Connelly was offered the Corofin job last year so the heave did not affect his ability to get a top managerial job
Quote from: maigheo on December 22, 2016, 12:18:06 AM
I am pretty sure Bomber, Syferus and Indiana are the same person as there could not be 3 people with less of a clue about the Mayo GAA scene.And by the way Connelly was offered the Corofin job last year so the heave did not affect his ability to get a top managerial job
Yeah. Definitely. I'm well known for my love of Tyrone and Dublin.
Quote from: maigheo on December 22, 2016, 12:18:06 AM
I am pretty sure Bomber, Syferus and Indiana are the same person as there could not be 3 people with less of a clue about the Mayo GAA scene.And by the way Connelly was offered the Corofin job last year so the heave did not affect his ability to get a top managerial job
It's no about having an in depth knowledge of Mayo football.
The Mayo lads on here have dismissed every single criticism of their players in relation to this debacle our of hand, they just don't want to have to face up to the music that there are some massive egos and preening primadonnas in their squad that are a destabilising factor and are indulged by their general public.
This indulgence of that kind of behaviour is why there are no All Ireland medals in their pockets.
You guys don't want to debate this out, it's just ridiculous, illogical dismissals without even attempting to hear out the other side of the story. I don't think I have heard one Mayo person on here actually come out and say they thought it was wrong that certain players were trying to lobby and undermine managerial selection decisions.
I haven't heard one fan say it was wrong that players looked to have a management team ousted behind their backs without any negotiation and then wanted a say in who was appointed?
The door of blame seems to be fully placed at the feet of Holmes and Connelly, despite the fact that they were the victims of it. If they felt players were soft, it was their duty to tackle that, if they felt that certain players were not focused on their game, it was their duty to tackle that, if they thought that certain players had an undue influence in areas they were not meant to, it was their duty to tackle it.
They paid the price of upsetting a team of primadonnas, that is what it says. Their results stand up to that of Horan and Rochford and that's what it should boil down to but certain players felt slighted and aggrieved from personal differences, took the jump and drove them out - there lies the crux of the matter.
It had nothing to do with winning or losing All Irelands and everything to do with acquiescing to a cohort of players with very high standards of self-regard.
Mayo GAA - Generation Snowflake.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-dont-lecture-holmes-and-connelly-on-loyalty-to-mayo-football-theyve-done-it-a-huge-service-35310475.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-dont-lecture-holmes-and-connelly-on-loyalty-to-mayo-football-theyve-done-it-a-huge-service-35310475.html)
Breheny sticks the boot into Ronan McGarrity.
'...Meanwhile, their former colleague Ronan McGarrity declared that "any criticism Mayo players get is wrong". He has 'no time for that' and claimed it "was a bit of a mystery" why Holmes and Connelly had spoken out.
Check what happened, Ronan. Was it okay for the squad to inflict huge reputational damage on Holmes and Connelly, yet when the managers respond it's deemed to be disloyal...'
I wonder how long he will be milking this story?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 07:40:51 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 22, 2016, 12:18:06 AM
I am pretty sure Bomber, Syferus and Indiana are the same person as there could not be 3 people with less of a clue about the Mayo GAA scene.And by the way Connelly was offered the Corofin job last year so the heave did not affect his ability to get a top managerial job
It's no about having an in depth knowledge of Mayo football.
The Mayo lads on here have dismissed every single criticism of their players in relation to this debacle our of hand, they just don't want to have to face up to the music that there are some massive egos and preening primadonnas in their squad that are a destabilising factor and are indulged by their general public.
This indulgence of that kind of behaviour is why there are no All Ireland medals in their pockets.
You guys don't want to debate this out, it's just ridiculous, illogical dismissals without even attempting to hear out the other side of the story. I don't think I have heard one Mayo person on here actually come out and say they thought it was wrong that certain players were trying to lobby and undermine managerial selection decisions.
I haven't heard one fan say it was wrong that players looked to have a management team ousted behind their backs without any negotiation and then wanted a say in who was appointed?
The door of blame seems to be fully placed at the feet of Holmes and Connelly, despite the fact that they were the victims of it. If they felt players were soft, it was their duty to tackle that, if they felt that certain players were not focused on their game, it was their duty to tackle that, if they thought that certain players had an undue influence in areas they were not meant to, it was their duty to tackle it.
They paid the price of upsetting a team of primadonnas, that is what it says. Their results stand up to that of Horan and Rochford and that's what it should boil down to but certain players felt slighted and aggrieved from personal differences, took the jump and drove them out - there lies the crux of the matter.
It had nothing to do with winning or losing All Irelands and everything to do with acquiescing to a cohort of players with very high standards of self-regard.
Mayo GAA - Generation Snowflake.
What utter, utter shite. No self-respecting Mayo person is going to agree with the likes of yourself and Syferus - the pair of you are far more alike than either of you would like to admit by the way!
Have to agree with Il Bomber.
And muppet..the world and its dog knows that Conor O'Shea was the player not in the 26. Got a run in this years all Ireland and kept running at his own goal.
As for Ronan McGarrity...his focus now is playing basketball with Sligo All-Stars with AOS. They'd won 6 on the trot until last Saturday (when Indo article hit) and they under-performed and lost at home. Ronan's contribution seems team-focused. BTW, think the basketball angle is a positive in Mayo terms...footwork, handling, concentration etc.
The world isn't out to get Mayo lads, ye'll have to win one first before that happens. And most posters here would cheer that on. With the likes of Clarke, Keegan, Durcan, SOS, Aos & COC ye have some that have the tools to be best in the business. This year was a great chance with Dublin off colour and lacking the incisiveness of 2015. But naysayers take away from the collective. Does anyone think BB was whining and mailing JG when dropped by Dublin? A cull is needed. Thank Hennelly & Dillon for their time & effort and push on.
McEntee's take on matters is the one I'd like to hear...not while he's still in the tent though.
Quote from: maigheo on December 22, 2016, 12:18:06 AM
I am pretty sure Bomber, Syferus and Indiana are the same person as there could not be 3 people with less of a clue about the Mayo GAA scene.And by the way Connelly was offered the Corofin job last year so the heave did not affect his ability to get a top managerial job
I think we've established the lack of a clue Mayo fans have about admitting the truth about their team.
What a mess- who picked hennelly then so if we're all clueless?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 07:40:51 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 22, 2016, 12:18:06 AM
I am pretty sure Bomber, Syferus and Indiana are the same person as there could not be 3 people with less of a clue about the Mayo GAA scene.And by the way Connelly was offered the Corofin job last year so the heave did not affect his ability to get a top managerial job
It's no about having an in depth knowledge of Mayo football.
The Mayo lads on here have dismissed every single criticism of their players in relation to this debacle our of hand, they just don't want to have to face up to the music that there are some massive egos and preening primadonnas in their squad that are a destabilising factor and are indulged by their general public.
This indulgence of that kind of behaviour is why there are no All Ireland medals in their pockets.
You guys don't want to debate this out, it's just ridiculous, illogical dismissals without even attempting to hear out the other side of the story. I don't think I have heard one Mayo person on here actually come out and say they thought it was wrong that certain players were trying to lobby and undermine managerial selection decisions.
I haven't heard one fan say it was wrong that players looked to have a management team ousted behind their backs without any negotiation and then wanted a say in who was appointed?
The door of blame seems to be fully placed at the feet of Holmes and Connelly, despite the fact that they were the victims of it. If they felt players were soft, it was their duty to tackle that, if they felt that certain players were not focused on their game, it was their duty to tackle that, if they thought that certain players had an undue influence in areas they were not meant to, it was their duty to tackle it.
They paid the price of upsetting a team of primadonnas, that is what it says. Their results stand up to that of Horan and Rochford and that's what it should boil down to but certain players felt slighted and aggrieved from personal differences, took the jump and drove them out - there lies the crux of the matter.
It had nothing to do with winning or losing All Irelands and everything to do with acquiescing to a cohort of players with very high standards of self-regard.
Mayo GAA - Generation Snowflake.
And there it is, all layed out nice and simple the reason Mayo cannot win an All Ireland.
Could it be that the reason Tyrone cant seem to beat generation snowflake Mayo is because Cathal McCarron has a bigger ego then the 2 O'Sheas, Robbie Hennelly and Alan Dillon combined or are there other influences in the Tyrone dressing room we don't know about
Quote from: INDIANA on December 22, 2016, 10:29:03 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 22, 2016, 12:18:06 AM
I am pretty sure Bomber, Syferus and Indiana are the same person as there could not be 3 people with less of a clue about the Mayo GAA scene.And by the way Connelly was offered the Corofin job last year so the heave did not affect his ability to get a top managerial job
I think we've established the lack of a clue Mayo fans have about admitting the truth about their team.
What a mess- who picked hennelly then so if we're all clueless?
Finally.
A good start.
The imaginary Breaffy selection committee didn't pick Hennelly for 6 games in a row, including an All-Ireland Final.
But of course Dublin supporters, after one Martin Breheny December article, know more about what goes on behind the scenes in Mayo, than Mayo people.
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Quote from: Buckass on December 22, 2016, 10:05:25 AM
BTW, think the basketball angle is a positive in Mayo terms...footwork, handling, concentration etc.
I would say basketball is far far more valuable at a younger age in terms of GAA skill development compared to playing it as an adult. Aidan O'Shea is 26 so I would be shocked if there was significant change to his playing style at this stage .
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on December 22, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Every manager in the country has made left field decisions. It just so happens this one fell in line with the 'suggestions' of the O'Sheas. More than likely if Rochford is halfways aware he knew they liked Hennelly better. I think it's obvious it conttributed to what happened - if you're shakey enough about your All-Star keeper to consider changing him in an AIF replay knowing your midfielders want the other guy is likely to put you over the top.
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on December 22, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Every manager in the country has made left field decisions. It just so happens this one fell in line with the 'suggestions' of the O'Sheas. More than likely if Rochford is halfways aware he knew they liked Hennelly better. I think it's obvious it conttributed to what happened - if you're shakey enough about your All-Star keeper to consider changing him in an AIF replay knowing your midfielders want the other guy is likely to put you over the top.
Again you are desperately trying to twist the evidence.
We know it happened once, with Seamie, under H&C. That is all you know and you are making up the rest.
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:21:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on December 22, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Every manager in the country has made left field decisions. It just so happens this one fell in line with the 'suggestions' of the O'Sheas. More than likely if Rochford is halfways aware he knew they liked Hennelly better. I think it's obvious it conttributed to what happened - if you're shakey enough about your All-Star keeper to consider changing him in an AIF replay knowing your midfielders want the other guy is likely to put you over the top.
Again you are desperately trying to twist the evidence.
We know it happened once, with Seamie, under H&C. That is all you know and you are making up the rest.
You're suggesting Rochford didn't know they liked their own clubmate more? Are you trolling or something?
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:21:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on December 22, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Every manager in the country has made left field decisions. It just so happens this one fell in line with the 'suggestions' of the O'Sheas. More than likely if Rochford is halfways aware he knew they liked Hennelly better. I think it's obvious it conttributed to what happened - if you're shakey enough about your All-Star keeper to consider changing him in an AIF replay knowing your midfielders want the other guy is likely to put you over the top.
Again you are desperately trying to twist the evidence.
We know it happened once, with Seamie, under H&C. That is all you know and you are making up the rest.
You're suggesting Rochford didn't know they liked their own clubmate more? Are you trolling or something?
No, the other two implications in your post.
You are still implying it was more than one O'Shea, please show some evidence of this.
And you are still implying that they are responsible for the change of goalkeepers in October 2016. Please show some evidence of this.
Otherwise stop passing your theories off as 'more than likely' crap.
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:45:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:21:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on December 22, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Every manager in the country has made left field decisions. It just so happens this one fell in line with the 'suggestions' of the O'Sheas. More than likely if Rochford is halfways aware he knew they liked Hennelly better. I think it's obvious it conttributed to what happened - if you're shakey enough about your All-Star keeper to consider changing him in an AIF replay knowing your midfielders want the other guy is likely to put you over the top.
Again you are desperately trying to twist the evidence.
We know it happened once, with Seamie, under H&C. That is all you know and you are making up the rest.
You're suggesting Rochford didn't know they liked their own clubmate more? Are you trolling or something?
No, the other two implications in your post.
You are still implying it was more than one O'Shea, please show some evidence of this.
And you are still implying that they are responsible for the change of goalkeepers in October 2016. Please show some evidence of this.
Otherwise stop passing your theories off as 'more than likely' crap.
I doubt very much the O Se's and Rochford were discussing the flight path of the seagulls around Croke Park at the AI Semi Final.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 22, 2016, 06:13:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:45:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:21:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on December 22, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Every manager in the country has made left field decisions. It just so happens this one fell in line with the 'suggestions' of the O'Sheas. More than likely if Rochford is halfways aware he knew they liked Hennelly better. I think it's obvious it conttributed to what happened - if you're shakey enough about your All-Star keeper to consider changing him in an AIF replay knowing your midfielders want the other guy is likely to put you over the top.
Again you are desperately trying to twist the evidence.
We know it happened once, with Seamie, under H&C. That is all you know and you are making up the rest.
You're suggesting Rochford didn't know they liked their own clubmate more? Are you trolling or something?
No, the other two implications in your post.
You are still implying it was more than one O'Shea, please show some evidence of this.
And you are still implying that they are responsible for the change of goalkeepers in October 2016. Please show some evidence of this.
Otherwise stop passing your theories off as 'more than likely' crap.
I doubt very much the O Se's and Rochford were discussing the flight path of the seagulls around Croke Park at the AI Semi Final.
And which goalkeeper started the game after the semi-final?
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 22, 2016, 06:13:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:45:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:21:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on December 22, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Every manager in the country has made left field decisions. It just so happens this one fell in line with the 'suggestions' of the O'Sheas. More than likely if Rochford is halfways aware he knew they liked Hennelly better. I think it's obvious it conttributed to what happened - if you're shakey enough about your All-Star keeper to consider changing him in an AIF replay knowing your midfielders want the other guy is likely to put you over the top.
Again you are desperately trying to twist the evidence.
We know it happened once, with Seamie, under H&C. That is all you know and you are making up the rest.
You're suggesting Rochford didn't know they liked their own clubmate more? Are you trolling or something?
No, the other two implications in your post.
You are still implying it was more than one O'Shea, please show some evidence of this.
And you are still implying that they are responsible for the change of goalkeepers in October 2016. Please show some evidence of this.
Otherwise stop passing your theories off as 'more than likely' crap.
I doubt very much the O Se's and Rochford were discussing the flight path of the seagulls around Croke Park at the AI Semi Final.
And which goalkeeper started the game after the semi-final?
That's got nothing to do with it as well you know. No management team in the country outside Mayo sits with players who aren't the captain while watching the opposition with none of the rest of the squad there.
Absolutely unique.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 22, 2016, 06:19:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 22, 2016, 06:13:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:45:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:21:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on December 22, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Every manager in the country has made left field decisions. It just so happens this one fell in line with the 'suggestions' of the O'Sheas. More than likely if Rochford is halfways aware he knew they liked Hennelly better. I think it's obvious it conttributed to what happened - if you're shakey enough about your All-Star keeper to consider changing him in an AIF replay knowing your midfielders want the other guy is likely to put you over the top.
Again you are desperately trying to twist the evidence.
We know it happened once, with Seamie, under H&C. That is all you know and you are making up the rest.
You're suggesting Rochford didn't know they liked their own clubmate more? Are you trolling or something?
No, the other two implications in your post.
You are still implying it was more than one O'Shea, please show some evidence of this.
And you are still implying that they are responsible for the change of goalkeepers in October 2016. Please show some evidence of this.
Otherwise stop passing your theories off as 'more than likely' crap.
I doubt very much the O Se's and Rochford were discussing the flight path of the seagulls around Croke Park at the AI Semi Final.
And which goalkeeper started the game after the semi-final?
That's got nothing to do with it as well you know. No management team in the country outside Mayo sits with players who aren't the captain while watching the opposition with none of the rest of the squad there.
Absolutely unique.
I asked for evidence for the O'Shea's canvassing Rochford to pick Hennelly. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You implied that they got Rochford to pick Hennelly at the semi final, until I showed you up by showing Clarke played in the next match. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Your giddiness to stick the boot into Mayo has turned your brain to mush. ;D ;D
Ciaran Murphy ,Second Captains , Irish Times
If you're buying just one sports book for yourself or your loved ones this Christmas, it will probably be Paul O'Connell's autobiography The Battle, with Alan English. In it he describes what it's like to be a part of Ireland's first truly successful indigenous professional sports club – the Munster rugby team.
Vast swathes of the book are dedicated to how he reckoned the major strength in Munster throughout the early part of his career was down to the manner in which the players dictated the atmosphere in the group. Declan Kidney's success as head coach had as much to do with him having the wherewithal to get out of the way and let the players set the tone as it had to do with any tactical nous he may have had.
In the book, O'Connell says he met former Munster head coach Rob Penneybefore he was offered the job – "I think Garret Fitzgerald wanted to make sure a few of the senior players were comfortable with whoever was chosen". And the book describes in detail the sort of character required to drive Munster's standards – dogged, contrary, cranky, mouthy. Rugby players are used to consultation, they're used to empowerment, and they're used to the pressure that puts on them.
Which brings us to Mayo. The interview given by Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes to the Irish Independent over the weekend has gotten plenty of coverage since, and while they may have believed that telling their side of the story would turn the tide of public opinion in their favour, the majority of the reaction to it appears to spare the pair little. Their insistence that they were doing this for the good of Mayo football did not survive long under many people's microscope.
If you're buying just one sports book for yourself or your loved ones this Christmas, it will probably be Paul O'Connell's autobiography The Battle, with Alan English. In it he describes what it's like to be a part of Ireland's first truly successful indigenous professional sports club – the Munster rugby team.
Vast swathes of the book are dedicated to how he reckoned the major strength in Munster throughout the early part of his career was down to the manner in which the players dictated the atmosphere in the group. Declan Kidney's success as head coach had as much to do with him having the wherewithal to get out of the way and let the players set the tone as it had to do with any tactical nous he may have had.
In the book, O'Connell says he met former Munster head coach Rob Penneybefore he was offered the job – "I think Garret Fitzgerald wanted to make sure a few of the senior players were comfortable with whoever was chosen". And the book describes in detail the sort of character required to drive Munster's standards – dogged, contrary, cranky, mouthy. Rugby players are used to consultation, they're used to empowerment, and they're used to the pressure that puts on them.
Which brings us to Mayo. The interview given by Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes to the Irish Independent over the weekend has gotten plenty of coverage since, and while they may have believed that telling their side of the story would turn the tide of public opinion in their favour, the majority of the reaction to it appears to spare the pair little. Their insistence that they were doing this for the good of Mayo football did not survive long under many people's microscope.
SilenceIf they had wanted to help Mayo, they would never have done this interview. As they look on from the outside, their silence is the only way they can help. The only people that could possibly have been served by this interview were themselves . . . and yet they accuse players of being selfish, and being consumed by ego. Of course, they have a right to say whatever they like about their time in charge, but it doesn't make it the correct thing to do.
As you read on, and you hear about Aidan O'Shea being denied the chance to take part in an AIB-funded TV show called The Toughest Trade (he eventually took part in the show in 2016), and older men spit out the words "Twitter followers" like it's shorthand for taking up a cabaret residency in Vegas, you can't help but think again that winning an All-Ireland solves all this nonsense at a stroke.
Everything an All-Ireland winner does is right, and everything a loser does is wrong. And that's it. By that way of thinking, Brendan Maher's two weeks' playing cricket in Australia filming The Toughest Trade this year was a vital component in preparing him for a year in which he captained Tipperary to the All-Ireland. It no doubt opened his eyes to a new sporting culture, aided his hand-eye co-ordination, topped up his tan, improved his diction, and helped him find God.
Or maybe it was just a cool thing to try for a couple of weeks. We may never know.
It didn't seem to bother Jackie Tyrrell the year before either. If I was Derek McGrath or Micheál Donoghue, I'd be bending over backwards to convince the producers to hire a Waterford or Galway hurler for the 2017 edition, because this show has a 100 per cent All-Ireland success prediction rate so far.
The Mayo players don't emerge from this unscathed, but it hardly comes as a surprise that a high-level sports team has in its midst characters that are almost nasty in their willingness to win. Their willingness to be unpopular, to say the unpopular thing, is part of the reason why we follow them. It's why men like Paul O'Connell and the Munster legacy he fought his entire career to protect and enhance are so interesting to us.
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 03:21:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 22, 2016, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on December 22, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Whilst in charge of Corofin, Rochford was prone to making the odd "left field" selection for some important matches and as it turned out, theses usually worked as Corofin were/are quite dominant at club level in Galway and obviously won the Club AI during his tenure. The Hennelly selection is along the lines of something he is quite capable of doing and I do believe it was his decision but unfortunately for him it backfired on the biggest stage of all.
Every manager in the country has made left field decisions. It just so happens this one fell in line with the 'suggestions' of the O'Sheas. More than likely if Rochford is halfways aware he knew they liked Hennelly better. I think it's obvious it conttributed to what happened - if you're shakey enough about your All-Star keeper to consider changing him in an AIF replay knowing your midfielders want the other guy is likely to put you over the top.
Again you are desperately trying to twist the evidence.
We know it happened once, with Seamie, under H&C. That is all you know and you are making up the rest.
You have staunchly shown yourself to be completely uninterested in the other side of the story so your claim of someone trying to twist the evidence is risible.
Quote from: Tubberman on December 22, 2016, 09:32:13 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 07:40:51 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 22, 2016, 12:18:06 AM
I am pretty sure Bomber, Syferus and Indiana are the same person as there could not be 3 people with less of a clue about the Mayo GAA scene.And by the way Connelly was offered the Corofin job last year so the heave did not affect his ability to get a top managerial job
It's no about having an in depth knowledge of Mayo football.
The Mayo lads on here have dismissed every single criticism of their players in relation to this debacle our of hand, they just don't want to have to face up to the music that there are some massive egos and preening primadonnas in their squad that are a destabilising factor and are indulged by their general public.
This indulgence of that kind of behaviour is why there are no All Ireland medals in their pockets.
You guys don't want to debate this out, it's just ridiculous, illogical dismissals without even attempting to hear out the other side of the story. I don't think I have heard one Mayo person on here actually come out and say they thought it was wrong that certain players were trying to lobby and undermine managerial selection decisions.
I haven't heard one fan say it was wrong that players looked to have a management team ousted behind their backs without any negotiation and then wanted a say in who was appointed?
The door of blame seems to be fully placed at the feet of Holmes and Connelly, despite the fact that they were the victims of it. If they felt players were soft, it was their duty to tackle that, if they felt that certain players were not focused on their game, it was their duty to tackle that, if they thought that certain players had an undue influence in areas they were not meant to, it was their duty to tackle it.
They paid the price of upsetting a team of primadonnas, that is what it says. Their results stand up to that of Horan and Rochford and that's what it should boil down to but certain players felt slighted and aggrieved from personal differences, took the jump and drove them out - there lies the crux of the matter.
It had nothing to do with winning or losing All Irelands and everything to do with acquiescing to a cohort of players with very high standards of self-regard.
Mayo GAA - Generation Snowflake.
What utter, utter shite. No self-respecting Mayo person is going to agree with the likes of yourself and Syferus - the pair of you are far more alike than either of you would like to admit by the way!
What is utter shite is Mayo lads on here pretending the players were justified in the sneaky, cowardly way they dispatched their management team.
I am perplexed at the complete out of hand dismissal of one side of the story and outright defence of their players.
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 22, 2016, 06:33:10 PM
Ciaran Murphy ,Second Captains , Irish Times
If you're buying just one sports book for yourself or your loved ones this Christmas, it will probably be Paul O'Connell's autobiography The Battle, with Alan English. In it he describes what it's like to be a part of Ireland's first truly successful indigenous professional sports club – the Munster rugby team.
Vast swathes of the book are dedicated to how he reckoned the major strength in Munster throughout the early part of his career was down to the manner in which the players dictated the atmosphere in the group. Declan Kidney's success as head coach had as much to do with him having the wherewithal to get out of the way and let the players set the tone as it had to do with any tactical nous he may have had.
In the book, O'Connell says he met former Munster head coach Rob Penneybefore he was offered the job – "I think Garret Fitzgerald wanted to make sure a few of the senior players were comfortable with whoever was chosen". And the book describes in detail the sort of character required to drive Munster's standards – dogged, contrary, cranky, mouthy. Rugby players are used to consultation, they're used to empowerment, and they're used to the pressure that puts on them.
Which brings us to Mayo. The interview given by Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes to the Irish Independent over the weekend has gotten plenty of coverage since, and while they may have believed that telling their side of the story would turn the tide of public opinion in their favour, the majority of the reaction to it appears to spare the pair little. Their insistence that they were doing this for the good of Mayo football did not survive long under many people's microscope.
If you're buying just one sports book for yourself or your loved ones this Christmas, it will probably be Paul O'Connell's autobiography The Battle, with Alan English. In it he describes what it's like to be a part of Ireland's first truly successful indigenous professional sports club – the Munster rugby team.
Vast swathes of the book are dedicated to how he reckoned the major strength in Munster throughout the early part of his career was down to the manner in which the players dictated the atmosphere in the group. Declan Kidney's success as head coach had as much to do with him having the wherewithal to get out of the way and let the players set the tone as it had to do with any tactical nous he may have had.
In the book, O'Connell says he met former Munster head coach Rob Penneybefore he was offered the job – "I think Garret Fitzgerald wanted to make sure a few of the senior players were comfortable with whoever was chosen". And the book describes in detail the sort of character required to drive Munster's standards – dogged, contrary, cranky, mouthy. Rugby players are used to consultation, they're used to empowerment, and they're used to the pressure that puts on them.
Which brings us to Mayo. The interview given by Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes to the Irish Independent over the weekend has gotten plenty of coverage since, and while they may have believed that telling their side of the story would turn the tide of public opinion in their favour, the majority of the reaction to it appears to spare the pair little. Their insistence that they were doing this for the good of Mayo football did not survive long under many people's microscope.
SilenceIf they had wanted to help Mayo, they would never have done this interview. As they look on from the outside, their silence is the only way they can help. The only people that could possibly have been served by this interview were themselves . . . and yet they accuse players of being selfish, and being consumed by ego. Of course, they have a right to say whatever they like about their time in charge, but it doesn't make it the correct thing to do.
As you read on, and you hear about Aidan O'Shea being denied the chance to take part in an AIB-funded TV show called The Toughest Trade (he eventually took part in the show in 2016), and older men spit out the words "Twitter followers" like it's shorthand for taking up a cabaret residency in Vegas, you can't help but think again that winning an All-Ireland solves all this nonsense at a stroke.
Everything an All-Ireland winner does is right, and everything a loser does is wrong. And that's it. By that way of thinking, Brendan Maher's two weeks' playing cricket in Australia filming The Toughest Trade this year was a vital component in preparing him for a year in which he captained Tipperary to the All-Ireland. It no doubt opened his eyes to a new sporting culture, aided his hand-eye co-ordination, topped up his tan, improved his diction, and helped him find God.
Or maybe it was just a cool thing to try for a couple of weeks. We may never know.
It didn't seem to bother Jackie Tyrrell the year before either. If I was Derek McGrath or Micheál Donoghue, I'd be bending over backwards to convince the producers to hire a Waterford or Galway hurler for the 2017 edition, because this show has a 100 per cent All-Ireland success prediction rate so far.
The Mayo players don't emerge from this unscathed, but it hardly comes as a surprise that a high-level sports team has in its midst characters that are almost nasty in their willingness to win. Their willingness to be unpopular, to say the unpopular thing, is part of the reason why we follow them. It's why men like Paul O'Connell and the Munster legacy he fought his entire career to protect and enhance are so interesting to us.
I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?
They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.
Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2016, 06:55:10 PM
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 22, 2016, 06:33:10 PM
Ciaran Murphy ,Second Captains , Irish Times
If you're buying just one sports book for yourself or your loved ones this Christmas, it will probably be Paul O'Connell's autobiography The Battle, with Alan English. In it he describes what it's like to be a part of Ireland's first truly successful indigenous professional sports club – the Munster rugby team.
Vast swathes of the book are dedicated to how he reckoned the major strength in Munster throughout the early part of his career was down to the manner in which the players dictated the atmosphere in the group. Declan Kidney's success as head coach had as much to do with him having the wherewithal to get out of the way and let the players set the tone as it had to do with any tactical nous he may have had.
In the book, O'Connell says he met former Munster head coach Rob Penneybefore he was offered the job – "I think Garret Fitzgerald wanted to make sure a few of the senior players were comfortable with whoever was chosen". And the book describes in detail the sort of character required to drive Munster's standards – dogged, contrary, cranky, mouthy. Rugby players are used to consultation, they're used to empowerment, and they're used to the pressure that puts on them.
Which brings us to Mayo. The interview given by Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes to the Irish Independent over the weekend has gotten plenty of coverage since, and while they may have believed that telling their side of the story would turn the tide of public opinion in their favour, the majority of the reaction to it appears to spare the pair little. Their insistence that they were doing this for the good of Mayo football did not survive long under many people's microscope.
If you're buying just one sports book for yourself or your loved ones this Christmas, it will probably be Paul O'Connell's autobiography The Battle, with Alan English. In it he describes what it's like to be a part of Ireland's first truly successful indigenous professional sports club – the Munster rugby team.
Vast swathes of the book are dedicated to how he reckoned the major strength in Munster throughout the early part of his career was down to the manner in which the players dictated the atmosphere in the group. Declan Kidney's success as head coach had as much to do with him having the wherewithal to get out of the way and let the players set the tone as it had to do with any tactical nous he may have had.
In the book, O'Connell says he met former Munster head coach Rob Penneybefore he was offered the job – "I think Garret Fitzgerald wanted to make sure a few of the senior players were comfortable with whoever was chosen". And the book describes in detail the sort of character required to drive Munster's standards – dogged, contrary, cranky, mouthy. Rugby players are used to consultation, they're used to empowerment, and they're used to the pressure that puts on them.
Which brings us to Mayo. The interview given by Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes to the Irish Independent over the weekend has gotten plenty of coverage since, and while they may have believed that telling their side of the story would turn the tide of public opinion in their favour, the majority of the reaction to it appears to spare the pair little. Their insistence that they were doing this for the good of Mayo football did not survive long under many people's microscope.
SilenceIf they had wanted to help Mayo, they would never have done this interview. As they look on from the outside, their silence is the only way they can help. The only people that could possibly have been served by this interview were themselves . . . and yet they accuse players of being selfish, and being consumed by ego. Of course, they have a right to say whatever they like about their time in charge, but it doesn't make it the correct thing to do.
As you read on, and you hear about Aidan O'Shea being denied the chance to take part in an AIB-funded TV show called The Toughest Trade (he eventually took part in the show in 2016), and older men spit out the words "Twitter followers" like it's shorthand for taking up a cabaret residency in Vegas, you can't help but think again that winning an All-Ireland solves all this nonsense at a stroke.
Everything an All-Ireland winner does is right, and everything a loser does is wrong. And that's it. By that way of thinking, Brendan Maher's two weeks' playing cricket in Australia filming The Toughest Trade this year was a vital component in preparing him for a year in which he captained Tipperary to the All-Ireland. It no doubt opened his eyes to a new sporting culture, aided his hand-eye co-ordination, topped up his tan, improved his diction, and helped him find God.
Or maybe it was just a cool thing to try for a couple of weeks. We may never know.
It didn't seem to bother Jackie Tyrrell the year before either. If I was Derek McGrath or Micheál Donoghue, I'd be bending over backwards to convince the producers to hire a Waterford or Galway hurler for the 2017 edition, because this show has a 100 per cent All-Ireland success prediction rate so far.
The Mayo players don't emerge from this unscathed, but it hardly comes as a surprise that a high-level sports team has in its midst characters that are almost nasty in their willingness to win. Their willingness to be unpopular, to say the unpopular thing, is part of the reason why we follow them. It's why men like Paul O'Connell and the Munster legacy he fought his entire career to protect and enhance are so interesting to us.
I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?
They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.
Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.
Precisely.
Certain people seem outraged at lads who were undermined and ousted of their jobs as Mayo managers giving their side of the story.
Bizarre.
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2016, 06:55:10 PM
I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?
They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.
Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.
We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.
I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 07:18:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2016, 06:55:10 PM
I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?
They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.
Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.
We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.
I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........
It's your stance and people like you that are fuelling the flames. If there was some contrition or at least acceptance that panel members over-stepped their bounds in how they behaved under H&C and in how they ousted them this thread would have been over in one or two pages, for example.
It's the ridiculous shielding of players from all blame that is fueling this.
Its quite obvious at this stage that journalists/bloggers are taking the players side. H&C are no use to them any more but they need players interviews in 2017.
The columnists who dont need interviews are backing H&C. Bernard Flynn, Colm O Rourke, Pat Spillane have no need for player interviews and therefore go to town on the players.
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 07:18:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2016, 06:55:10 PM
I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?
They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.
Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.
We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.
I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........
We've had so much shite over the years in Donegal, I do sympathize (the snubbing of McHugh in the 90s; the snubbing of McGuinness and the interview panel laughing at him for expecting a projector for his powerpoint; Brian McIvor, a decent man from outside, being forced to reapply for his position in 2007, despite not having finished his tenure; the debacle of Declan Bonner and Charlie Mulgrew being offered the job at the same time as John Joe Doherty in 2008).
(You'll note I haven't even touched on the allegations regarding the Donegal players. There's so much stuff in the national consciousness from back then, yet there's even more ridiculous shenanigans you'd hear about locally that would put that stuff to shame)
To those who think the players should have put the heads down and ignored the fact that these managers were never accepted or deemed good enough by the players, why would they do that as they clearly didnt see them delivering an All Ireland. Clearly they werent a patch on Horans set up so they got them out. I felt sorry for them at the time but by god they have fairly stuck the knife into the players since. For 2 men who claim to have their counties best interest at heart they have done some serious damage.
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2016, 08:36:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 07:18:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2016, 06:55:10 PM
I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?
They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.
Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.
We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.
I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........
We've had so much shite over the years in Donegal, I do sympathize (the snubbing of McHugh in the 90s; the snubbing of McGuinness and the interview panel laughing at him for expecting a projector for his powerpoint; Brian McIvor, a decent man from outside, being forced to reapply for his position in 2007, despite not having finished his tenure; the debacle of Declan Bonner and Charlie Mulgrew being offered the job at the same time as John Joe Doherty in 2008).
(You'll note I haven't even touched on the allegations regarding the Donegal players. There's so much stuff in the national consciousness from back then, yet there's even more ridiculous shenanigans you'd hear about locally that would put that stuff to shame)
What?
You mean, Donegal supporters might know stuff that Indiana, Syferus, Matin Breheny and others not from Donegal don't know?
Surely you jest!
Quote from: ck on December 22, 2016, 08:49:03 PM
To those who think the players should have put the heads down and ignored the fact that these managers were never accepted or deemed good enough by the players, why would they do that as they clearly didnt see them delivering an All Ireland. Clearly they werent a patch on Horans set up so they got them out. I felt sorry for them at the time but by god they have fairly stuck the knife into the players since. For 2 men who claim to have their counties best interest at heart they have done some serious damage.
So because players have a predetermined outlook on management, it absolves them from acting like they did and actively seeking to undermine the management team.
Mayo showed no drop in performance levels in 2015 from the 2011-2014 period and no upturn in performances in 2016. That is the crux of the matter and that is how the management team should be judged.
The obvious reasons behind the heave were not footballing issues, they were personal ones and it was to do with a certain group of players acting outside their remit. A group of players should have no input in who their manager is meant and to be and this was a request from the players behind the heave.
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2016, 08:36:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2016, 07:18:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2016, 06:55:10 PM
I've no stake in this issue, but surely, and especially given that the players were not forthcoming with, in their eyes, valid reasons for their wanting the two boys dismissed, these men are entitled to tell their side of the story?
They're the ones whose reputations were besmirched by the way it all went down. No way I'd have shown the restraint they did in waiting over a year to comment.
Maybe the "good of Mayo football" part is debatable/fanciful, but that doesn't make they're giving this interview wrong.
We had a mess of a winter in 2014/15 due to the appointment process which brought us Holmes and Connelly.
We had a mess of a winter in 2015/16 due to the heave against Holmes and Connelly.
Now we appear to be having a mess of a winter in 2016/17 as Holmes and Connelly appear to want to stick a knife into some of the squad.
I'm sure as seen from Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and the rest of Connacht, this interview is certainly not wrong.
But in Mayo........
We've had so much shite over the years in Donegal, I do sympathize (the snubbing of McHugh in the 90s; the snubbing of McGuinness and the interview panel laughing at him for expecting a projector for his powerpoint; Brian McIvor, a decent man from outside, being forced to reapply for his position in 2007, despite not having finished his tenure; the debacle of Declan Bonner and Charlie Mulgrew being offered the job at the same time as John Joe Doherty in 2008).
(You'll note I haven't even touched on the allegations regarding the Donegal players. There's so much stuff in the national consciousness from back then, yet there's even more ridiculous shenanigans you'd hear about locally that would put that stuff to shame)
What?
You mean, Donegal supporters might know stuff that Indiana, Syferus, Matin Breheny and others not from Donegal don't know?
Surely you jest!
Know what?
Were you part of the backroom team and saw these things happen or do you just put a blind faith in the murmurs around the county that fit the side of the story you'd like to believe?
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.
Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever. County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.
Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.
Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00
Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.
After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.
Quote from: Mayo Border on December 22, 2016, 11:17:31 PM
Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever. County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014
Moran and Morrison was one of a few cases where right people were brought in. Forget H&C, if ever Mickey Moran breaks his silence about the way he was forced to walk the plank - by the board, not the players - then that would be some scoop. Maybe not, nobody interested in shadowy blazers. Likes of Brehony, who has a natural antipathy towards Mayo would prefer to get his teeth into players.
Apart from M&M, we,ve only got it right a couple of times besides. Liam O Neill in the early 80's. Maughan in mid 90s was the right man at the right time. Then there was Horan. Rochford as well I expect.
Moran & Morrison were treated extremely badly
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 11:30:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.
Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.
Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00
Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.
After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.
On paper both had good resumes, though, Moy. Holmes won a lot of credit being the man to finally turn the big town fancy dans into a proper outfit again and with his underage success Connelly was always likely to get a shot at the top job at some stage of his career.
I think a lot of this animosity from players boiled down to them being seen as CB men and Horan being the polar opposite - sure most of the instigators were managed to an U21 AI by H&C. The two men were in a near unwinnable situation no matter how good they were IMHO.
The game was just rigged against them from the get go. I think both the Mayo CB and the panel have to accept their share of the blame for that. The problem is I've seen too few willing to rattle the players' cages this week when it's pretty obviously they didn't exactly behave with much grace themselves.
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Increadible what O'Mahony was allowed to get away with, total waste of 4 years and not a word of criticism uttered about him.
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 11:30:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.
Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.
Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00
Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.
After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.
No better, no worse?
Why change?
Why did the players want change?
There doesn't seem to have been any real tangible positive or negative impact of it on the results side. We all know the change was driven by the players, so it clearly was not for footballing reasons and that in itself speaks volumes of the preciousness of a certain group of Mayo players who were exercising personal agendas because of the slights they felt or their egos not being massaged.
That is the bottom line and the fact that no Mayo poster on here has yet been willing to accept that the players were exercising personal grievances rather than footballing ones is strange.
Do you put any credence into the rumour that one managerial candidate was rejected by the players due to them having an issue with a guy he wanted to bring into the backroom team? If true what would that tell you about the players?
Bomber, go on and give it a rest would you. You think the players were wrong, big deal. Do you really care, or do you just not like mayo
Quote from: In hiding on December 23, 2016, 12:06:53 AM
Bomber, go on and give it a rest would you. You think the players were wrong, big deal. Do you really care, or do you just not like mayo
I find it extremely strange how the Mayo posters are willing to dismiss one side of the story completely out of hand when all the available information would suggest the players were completely out of order in this regard.
The motives were clearly not footballing ones and with that in mind, from a pragmatist like myself, it was completely unacceptable in what they did. You have guys on here moaning about nepotism and shenanigans from the county board, yet not a peep out of them when it comes to two of their senior players lobbying and questioning their management team on behalf of including club mates and family members?
If it's one thing I don't like it's double standards.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 11:30:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.
Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.
Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00
Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.
After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.
No better, no worse?
Why change?
Why did the players want change?
There doesn't seem to have been any real tangible positive or negative impact of it on the results side. We all know the change was driven by the players, so it clearly was not for footballing reasons and that in itself speaks volumes of the preciousness of a certain group of Mayo players who were exercising personal agendas because of the slights they felt or their egos not being massaged.
That is the bottom line and the fact that no Mayo poster on here has yet been willing to accept that the players were exercising personal grievances rather than footballing ones is strange.
Do you put any credence into the rumour that one managerial candidate was rejected by the players due to them having an issue with a guy he wanted to bring into the backroom team? If true what would that tell you about the players?
Hold on. It was the county board that came out with the 'rumour' that some players did not want McHale. I suspect, in the light of what happened after, that the board was justifying their position of not seriously considering the McStay option and blackening his package. McStay was unwise to comment on that at the time but he probably did not fully realise the lengths that the board would go to get their way.
I don t accept that the player's had personal grievances against H&C. The botched appointment would not have made any grievance personal. As far as I know Mayo players were not lobbying for anybody in particular to replace Horan. They're wasn t exactly a queue of outstanding candidates. H&C got their shot. The players just didn't think they were up to it and I suspect they had good reasons for thinking that way - as usual we'll have to wait for a few more years for the reasons. The fact that they didn't win AI next year is irrelevant. Changing managers doesn't mean that you will win an AI. In case you haven't noticed a lot of teams want to win the AI and usually there is 3 or 4 teams that can do so in any given year. Losing a replay by a point is hardly disgraceful. They were 100% correct not to go along with a management they did not believe in.
Quote from: Mayo Border on December 22, 2016, 11:17:31 PM
Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014
In your time supporting Mayo perhaps? 2009 Mayo won Connacht and reached a league final the following year. Main reason why Mayo weren't more successful was because they were in transition then and politics and sport doesn't mix he should be remembered for giving plenty of current seniors their debuts.
Darkest ever senior era for Mayo was 1970 to 1980 when no provincial title was won.
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 12:23:12 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 11:30:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.
Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.
Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00
Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.
After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.
No better, no worse?
Why change?
Why did the players want change?
There doesn't seem to have been any real tangible positive or negative impact of it on the results side. We all know the change was driven by the players, so it clearly was not for footballing reasons and that in itself speaks volumes of the preciousness of a certain group of Mayo players who were exercising personal agendas because of the slights they felt or their egos not being massaged.
That is the bottom line and the fact that no Mayo poster on here has yet been willing to accept that the players were exercising personal grievances rather than footballing ones is strange.
Do you put any credence into the rumour that one managerial candidate was rejected by the players due to them having an issue with a guy he wanted to bring into the backroom team? If true what would that tell you about the players?
Hold on. It was the county board that came out with the 'rumour' that some players did not want McHale. I suspect, in the light of what happened after, that the board was justifying their position of not seriously considering the McStay option and blackening his package. McStay was unwise to comment on that at the time but he probably did not fully realise the lengths that the board would go to get their way.
I don t accept that the player's had personal grievances against H&C. The botched appointment would not have made any grievance personal. As far as I know Mayo players were not lobbying for anybody in particular to replace Horan. They're wasn t exactly a queue of outstanding candidates. H&C got their shot. The players just didn't think they were up to it and I suspect they had good reasons for thinking that way - as usual we'll have to wait for a few more years for the reasons. The fact that they didn't win AI next year is irrelevant. Changing managers doesn't mean that you will win an AI. In case you haven't noticed a lot of teams want to win the AI and usually there is 3 or 4 teams that can do so in any given year. Losing a replay by a point is hardly disgraceful. They were 100% correct not to go along with a management they did not believe in.
But that simply does not stack up with the results and performances of Mayo in 2015 in contrast to those in 2011-2014 and 2016.
Again, from a pragmatic, objective outlook there is nothing there to suggest that they got rid of Holmes and Connelly for footballing reasons. Holmes and Connelly, who as we all know were driven out by the players have came out a year later and have quite clearly made it clear that they believe a group of players had grievances with them over issues such as not letting them partake in tv shows, selection decisions involving themselves, their club mates and their family members, criticism of their bottle which they did not take well etc. That's one side of the story and it definitely points as non footballing reasons, seemingly dismissed out of hand by most Mayo men on here, on the basis of nothing other than subjective, rosy tinted views of their squad's integrity seemingly.
On the other side of the story is the Mayo squad "we want you gone, not up for negotiation, we're not giving you the reasons".
There's only one side of the story that has any weight of integrity to it that we have hear and it certainly isn't the version put forward from the Mayo players.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 12:26:02 AM
Quote from: Mayo Border on December 22, 2016, 11:17:31 PM
Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014
In your time supporting Mayo perhaps? 2009 Mayo won Connacht and reached a league final the following year. Main reason why Mayo weren't more successful was because they were in transition then and politics and sport doesn't mix he should be remembered for giving plenty of current seniors their debuts.
Darkest ever senior era for Mayo was 1970 to 1980 when no provincial title was won.
I supported Mayo when Johnny Carey won Mayo's first all star. I was in Cusack Park Ennis in 1973 when Mayo u21 outplayed Kerry but were beaten in the end by 2 John Egan goals. The team won the following year but the tragedy of Ted Webb's passing set the group back. A strong Galway team was around early 70's and a stronger Roscommon team towards the end of the decade cant be discounted. O'Mahony had no semblance of a plan for the way forward from 2007 on. His teams always appeared disorganised. His big early move was to drop Ciaran Macdonnell. And I was in Sligo town in June 2010. Thank heavens we didn't end up with Tommy Lyons or Tommy Carr or Paudi or Banty. I believe Rochford will be successful with this team. Mainly because the events of 2014 / 15 were not of his doing. I wish them all the best
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 12:26:02 AM
Quote from: Mayo Border on December 22, 2016, 11:17:31 PM
Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014
In your time supporting Mayo perhaps? 2009 Mayo won Connacht and reached a league final the following year. Main reason why Mayo weren't more successful was because they were in transition then and politics and sport doesn't mix he should be remembered for giving plenty of current seniors their debuts.
Darkest ever senior era for Mayo was 1970 to 1980 when no provincial title was won.
Nah. Your right about the 70s but Mayo won a National title in 70 and were runners up in 71, 72 and 78. The 70's were still shite though - not because of players though. When other counties had progressive managers like Heffernan, O' Dwyer and McGee, Mayo had ........... a committee????
Johnno getting to a league final with a team that has been around division 1 for years is hardly success. A team that is Div 1 is hardly in transition. As regards giving players debuts. My granny down in League cemetery would have seen they could play. Mind you Boyle was nearly ruined. I believe a lot of our ills have come from 06-10. Horan started from zero and so did Maughan when he took over. Same Liam O Neill. Johnno took a decent team and spent 4 years knocking them back.
Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2016, 12:35:50 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 12:23:12 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 11:30:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.
Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.
Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00
Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.
After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.
No better, no worse?
Why change?
Why did the players want change?
There doesn't seem to have been any real tangible positive or negative impact of it on the results side. We all know the change was driven by the players, so it clearly was not for footballing reasons and that in itself speaks volumes of the preciousness of a certain group of Mayo players who were exercising personal agendas because of the slights they felt or their egos not being massaged.
That is the bottom line and the fact that no Mayo poster on here has yet been willing to accept that the players were exercising personal grievances rather than footballing ones is strange.
Do you put any credence into the rumour that one managerial candidate was rejected by the players due to them having an issue with a guy he wanted to bring into the backroom team? If true what would that tell you about the players?
Hold on. It was the county board that came out with the 'rumour' that some players did not want McHale. I suspect, in the light of what happened after, that the board was justifying their position of not seriously considering the McStay option and blackening his package. McStay was unwise to comment on that at the time but he probably did not fully realise the lengths that the board would go to get their way.
I don t accept that the player's had personal grievances against H&C. The botched appointment would not have made any grievance personal. As far as I know Mayo players were not lobbying for anybody in particular to replace Horan. They're wasn t exactly a queue of outstanding candidates. H&C got their shot. The players just didn't think they were up to it and I suspect they had good reasons for thinking that way - as usual we'll have to wait for a few more years for the reasons. The fact that they didn't win AI next year is irrelevant. Changing managers doesn't mean that you will win an AI. In case you haven't noticed a lot of teams want to win the AI and usually there is 3 or 4 teams that can do so in any given year. Losing a replay by a point is hardly disgraceful. They were 100% correct not to go along with a management they did not believe in.
But that simply does not stack up with the results and performances of Mayo in 2015 in contrast to those in 2011-2014 and 2016.
Again, from a pragmatic, objective outlook there is nothing there to suggest that they got rid of Holmes and Connelly for footballing reasons. Holmes and Connelly, who as we all know were driven out by the players have came out a year later and have quite clearly made it clear that they believe a group of players had grievances with them over issues such as not letting them partake in tv shows, selection decisions involving themselves, their club mates and their family members, criticism of their bottle which they did not take well etc. That's one side of the story and it definitely points as non footballing reasons, seemingly dismissed out of hand by most Mayo men on here, on the basis of nothing other than subjective, rosy tinted views of their squad's integrity seemingly.
On the other side of the story is the Mayo squad "we want you gone, not up for negotiation, we're not giving you the reasons".
There's only one side of the story that has any weight of integrity to it that we have hear and it certainly isn't the version put forward from the Mayo players.
How much do you expect the performances to vary from year to year if the same players are involved. It shows that they play to a high level consistently.
As regards the grievances in Brehony article. Seems to me that they were what H&C believed were the grievances that instigated the push. The players haven t said what their grievances and maybe that spares H&C a bit. I don't believe for a minute that those petty anecdotes were the real reasons for the player unrest. We ll find out the real reasons eventually, we always do. By then of course it will be old news. But I suspect that there were footballing reasons at the root of it.
Anyway why does this bother you so much? Or, others. Surely it is in other counties interest that Mayo are messing about with one of their better teams!
There has hardly been a queue for H&C to manage other teams since Holmes' first mediocre stint as Mayo manager 13 years ago or after they won an AI U21 in 2006. That puzzles me. Neutrals seem to think they were Clough and Taylor as regards Mayo but ...........
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 01:22:14 AM
Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.
Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players. Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football? It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.
Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.
Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 01:56:39 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 01:22:14 AM
Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.
Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players. Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football? It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.
Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.
Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.
2010 was a bad summer after a decent spring where Mayo reached the league final beating Cork,Kerry,Tyrone along the way.
Under the guidance of H&C Mayo won 4 U21 Connacht titles in a row and one All Ireland between 2006 to 2009. Then the James Horan success with Mayo seniors 2011 to 2014 was built around that group of players that played on those 2006 to 2009 U21s teams.
Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins; Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle; Seamus O'Shea,Barry Moran,Tom Parsons,Donal Vaughan,Jason Doherty,Robert Hennelly,Kevin Keane,Lee Keegan, Kevin McLoughlin, Aidan O'Shea i might be missing a few more.
Like i said Horan hardly started from zero but he got the rub of the green in his first championship game that could have been a far worse result than losing to Longford or Sligo!
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 01:56:39 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 01:22:14 AM
Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.
Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players. Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football? It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.
Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.
Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.
Ye lost to the best Sligo team in 40 years, ye beat the worst AI champions in about the same period the next year. Longford can beat just about any team in the country in the Qualifiers. Matter of perspective, Moy.
Horan had more advantages than most managers and the myth making comparing a down year to the following year is a common theme when Mayo supporters tell his story. His first championship performance was a draw with fecking London, only settled after extra time and heroics by the Roscommon man. If that was under Johnno's reign you'd have included it in your 'darkest days' montage! In the end Horan ended up little different than Johnno or Maughan or Moran, there's only one metric that counts in Mayo and you know that as well as anyone.
It's his attitude towards the CB, rightly or wrongly, that was the catalyst to the mess the last three winters. Nothing happens in isolation and the story of H&C's fall has its roots in Horan's reign for the players, and farther back still at a CB level. Fall guys.
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 01:24:46 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2016, 12:35:50 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 12:23:12 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 11:30:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 22, 2016, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 22, 2016, 10:51:34 PM
"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''
Tomás O Sé on Homellygate.
Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.
Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.
Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.
Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00
Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.
After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.
No better, no worse?
Why change?
Why did the players want change?
There doesn't seem to have been any real tangible positive or negative impact of it on the results side. We all know the change was driven by the players, so it clearly was not for footballing reasons and that in itself speaks volumes of the preciousness of a certain group of Mayo players who were exercising personal agendas because of the slights they felt or their egos not being massaged.
That is the bottom line and the fact that no Mayo poster on here has yet been willing to accept that the players were exercising personal grievances rather than footballing ones is strange.
Do you put any credence into the rumour that one managerial candidate was rejected by the players due to them having an issue with a guy he wanted to bring into the backroom team? If true what would that tell you about the players?
Hold on. It was the county board that came out with the 'rumour' that some players did not want McHale. I suspect, in the light of what happened after, that the board was justifying their position of not seriously considering the McStay option and blackening his package. McStay was unwise to comment on that at the time but he probably did not fully realise the lengths that the board would go to get their way.
I don t accept that the player's had personal grievances against H&C. The botched appointment would not have made any grievance personal. As far as I know Mayo players were not lobbying for anybody in particular to replace Horan. They're wasn t exactly a queue of outstanding candidates. H&C got their shot. The players just didn't think they were up to it and I suspect they had good reasons for thinking that way - as usual we'll have to wait for a few more years for the reasons. The fact that they didn't win AI next year is irrelevant. Changing managers doesn't mean that you will win an AI. In case you haven't noticed a lot of teams want to win the AI and usually there is 3 or 4 teams that can do so in any given year. Losing a replay by a point is hardly disgraceful. They were 100% correct not to go along with a management they did not believe in.
But that simply does not stack up with the results and performances of Mayo in 2015 in contrast to those in 2011-2014 and 2016.
Again, from a pragmatic, objective outlook there is nothing there to suggest that they got rid of Holmes and Connelly for footballing reasons. Holmes and Connelly, who as we all know were driven out by the players have came out a year later and have quite clearly made it clear that they believe a group of players had grievances with them over issues such as not letting them partake in tv shows, selection decisions involving themselves, their club mates and their family members, criticism of their bottle which they did not take well etc. That's one side of the story and it definitely points as non footballing reasons, seemingly dismissed out of hand by most Mayo men on here, on the basis of nothing other than subjective, rosy tinted views of their squad's integrity seemingly.
On the other side of the story is the Mayo squad "we want you gone, not up for negotiation, we're not giving you the reasons".
There's only one side of the story that has any weight of integrity to it that we have hear and it certainly isn't the version put forward from the Mayo players.
How much do you expect the performances to vary from year to year if the same players are involved. It shows that they play to a high level consistently.
As regards the grievances in Brehony article. Seems to me that they were what H&C believed were the grievances that instigated the push. The players haven t said what their grievances and maybe that spares H&C a bit. I don't believe for a minute that those petty anecdotes were the real reasons for the player unrest. We ll find out the real reasons eventually, we always do. By then of course it will be old news. But I suspect that there were footballing reasons at the root of it.
Anyway why does this bother you so much? Or, others. Surely it is in other counties interest that Mayo are messing about with one of their better teams!
There has hardly been a queue for H&C to manage other teams since Holmes' first mediocre stint as Mayo manager 13 years ago or after they won an AI U21 in 2006. That puzzles me. Neutrals seem to think they were Clough and Taylor as regards Mayo but ...........
Is that an admission that the grievances had little bearing on the results and performances on the football pitch? They do play to a high level consistently but under different managers have come up consistently short, from a results/performances perspective Holmes and Connelly did as well and previous and subsequent management teams yet the players ousted them? Why?
The answer to that on one side is that certain players egos weren't indulged by management who felt it would be in their needs to give their focus to football and not their brand image or management decisions. Is there a contention to what H&C said regarding the O'Sheas or is it accepted that O'Shea was annoyed at not being allowed appear on the TV show and also that they questioned and tried to influence selection decisions?
In a similar situation, what would you have though Jim McGuinness reaction to Michael Murphy going away to film a TV show in early season would have been? I doubt he'd have been pleased and I'd imagine he'd have told Murphy it's either football or that. It's different when Mayo are still chasing that elusive goal and players are fannying about in that regard like O'Shea. There he was this year just after orchestrating a campaign to remove management and rather than being at home with his team early season, he is swanning about over in the US making a TV show. Do you believe that is conducive to him wanting the highest standard possible?
There's a section in the Mayo dressing room that would seem to be a big danger to a management team, players should never have any say in which players get selected and if they do, or if they feel they should and are indulged in doing so, it seriously undermines a dressing room.
You also have, as was reported anyway, that Keegan and Andy Moran, probably your two best leaders, voting in favour of the management team. From my outside looking in viewpoint and with the information available, it looks like there was a clique of players who had personal grievances with the management team and lobbied others to remove it. I wonder how many of the players were disenchanted with the management team before being approached, I wonder how many players felt pressurised into doing so, one player who voted for the heave recently came out and admitted they were out of order. But none of these things seem to matter as certain people had chosen to back the players wholeheartedly, irrespective of the information.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 02:17:23 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 01:56:39 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 01:22:14 AM
Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.
Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players. Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football? It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.
Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.
Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.
2010 was a bad summer after a decent spring where Mayo reached the league final beating Cork,Kerry,Tyrone along the way.
Under the guidance of H&C Mayo won 4 U21 Connacht titles in a row and one All Ireland between 2006 to 2009. Then the James Horan success with Mayo seniors 2011 to 2014 was built around that group of players that played on those 2006 to 2009 U21s teams.
Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins; Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle; Seamus O'Shea,Barry Moran,Tom Parsons,Donal Vaughan,Jason Doherty,Robert Hennelly,Kevin Keane,Lee Keegan, Kevin McLoughlin, Aidan O'Shea i might be missing a few more.
Like i said Horan hardly started from zero but he got the rub of the green in his first championship game that could have been a far worse result than losing to Longford or Sligo!
What you are missing, is the point.
Galway have had greater recent U-21 success in the football and it got them nowhere. Their success underage didn't translate when they upgraded the U-21 manager either. Look at Limerick's hurling 3 in a row. It means nothing.
Regarding senior football in 2010 Mayo were at a very low ebb. Losing consecutive championship games to Sligo and Longford is a dark place no matter how you look at it. Horan was a game-changer for us - literally. Nearly losing his first game doesn't alter that view any more than nearly winning All-Irelands makes you a champion.
Questions for the pro-H&C brigade? (And anyone else for that matter!)
Do you believe H&C were originally appointed by a correct procedure?
Do you believe they were the proper (or best available) people for the job in hand?
Why didn't H&C deal aggressively with players named in the interview for not toeing the line?
Do you think that players who feel a Management regime that is not good enough should sit on their hands?
What do you believe this interview was for?
The trouble with so much of the debate going on around the county, and here, is that we're dealing in a lot of assumptions and hearing one side of the argument. Holmes and Connelly have spoken but until we hear from the players, I'd be keeping an open mind. Certainly what Holmes and Connelly have said are at odds with word that was coming out of the camp during the year. That doesn't mean that Holmes and Connelly are wrong and that word is right but it does mean there just might be a different account from the players. Two sides to every story etc. I don't think we'll be hearing from them though, to speak now is to give old news fresh oxygen.
There's an assumption being made that Aidan O'Shea's email was seeking to get his brother Conor included in the 26. The talk is that it was Mikie Sweeney. Again, no proof of that - we'd have to see the email or have that direct question asked but if it was Conor O'Shea, what was to stop Holmes and Connelly saying it? By not saying who it was, they knew well the assumption that would have been made. If it was Conor O'Shea, naming him would help their argument much, much more.
There's assumptions about the O'Sheas and Rochford sitting together at the semi-final. I find that preposterous. What proof is there of that?
Long and short of this is that after four years with Horan, Mayo would nearly have done as well as they did in 2015 in neutral gear with any management but issues that were there during the year might have made that a much harder ask in 2016. 27 players voted no confidence, seven voted the other way. That's more than a small group! And those seven attended with the full group of players to give a letter to the county board. There was no split in the camp and, save for Tom Cunniffe, there's been none since. If this was a stunt pulled by a few and players were exercising undue influence, do you think guys like Colm Boyle, Lee Keegan, Ger Cafferkey and Andy Moran would stand for it? Do you think if a few players got Rob Hennelly picked for the replay, David Clarke would be back in harness for 2017?
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 23, 2016, 11:31:04 AM
The trouble with so much of the debate going on around the county, and here, is that we're dealing in a lot of assumptions and hearing one side of the argument. Holmes and Connelly have spoken but until we hear from the players, I'd be keeping an open mind. Certainly what Holmes and Connelly have said are at odds with word that was coming out of the camp during the year. That doesn't mean that Holmes and Connelly are wrong and that word is right but it does mean there just might be a different account from the players. Two sides to every story etc. I don't think we'll be hearing from them though, to speak now is to give old news fresh oxygen.
There's an assumption being made that Aidan O'Shea's email was seeking to get his brother Conor included in the 26. The talk is that it was Mikie Sweeney. Again, no proof of that - we'd have to see the email or have that direct question asked but if it was Conor O'Shea, what was to stop Holmes and Connelly saying it? By not saying who it was, they knew well the assumption that would have been made. If it was Conor O'Shea, naming him would help their argument much, much more.
There's assumptions about the O'Sheas and Rochford sitting together at the semi-final. I find that preposterous. What proof is there of that?
Long and short of this is that after four years with Horan, Mayo would nearly have done as well as they did in 2015 in neutral gear with any management but issues that were there during the year might have made that a much harder ask in 2016. 27 players voted no confidence, seven voted the other way. That's more than a small group! And those seven attended with the full group of players to give a letter to the county board. There was no split in the camp and, save for Tom Cunniffe, there's been none since. If this was a stunt pulled by a few and players were exercising undue influence, do you think guys like Colm Boyle, Lee Keegan, Ger Cafferkey and Andy Moran would stand for it? Do you think if a few players got Rob Hennelly picked for the replay, David Clarke would be back in harness for 2017?
There are no assumptions about them sitting together at the semi final. That is a fact.
I cannot understand what Rochford was doing in that instance.
Absolutely barmy.
There is a limit to player power and currently across the board at inter county level players have too much say.
David Brady says he's "nearly sick to death" of talking about Mayo football and fears that the recent criticism from the past senior management team could divide the county.
Speaking last night on Newstalk's Off The Ball programme, the former Mayo star said he felt that there's even more pressure on the team again to perform next season, after Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly pointed fingers at some of the players in the panel in an interview with the Irish Independent last week.
"I'm nearly sick to death talking about Mayo football, but there's always something. Whether it's September or December," said Brady.
"This time last year we were talking about Mayo management, the heave and new management coming in. This is different and for the first time we've seen from a media context, two managers coming out and saying what in their mind has happened.
"My fear is that this could divide a county that has been united for 60-odd years. There's never been any division, but slowly and surely I feel the division starting. What was printed from Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes' point of view, they felt it needed to be printed.
"From a players context, I think it's going to be a tough one to swallow, because whatever pressure was there has doubled from last year and I think there's now even more pressure again."
He added: "There'll be nothing said in any way shape or form from the Mayo players. There have been certain individuals who have been dealt a hard blow. It's on their shoulders, but they're man enough and talented enough to say 'right, it's part and parcel of playing gaelic football at the highest level'."
Quote from: INDIANA on December 23, 2016, 11:58:00 AM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on December 23, 2016, 11:31:04 AM
The trouble with so much of the debate going on around the county, and here, is that we're dealing in a lot of assumptions and hearing one side of the argument. Holmes and Connelly have spoken but until we hear from the players, I'd be keeping an open mind. Certainly what Holmes and Connelly have said are at odds with word that was coming out of the camp during the year. That doesn't mean that Holmes and Connelly are wrong and that word is right but it does mean there just might be a different account from the players. Two sides to every story etc. I don't think we'll be hearing from them though, to speak now is to give old news fresh oxygen.
There's an assumption being made that Aidan O'Shea's email was seeking to get his brother Conor included in the 26. The talk is that it was Mikie Sweeney. Again, no proof of that - we'd have to see the email or have that direct question asked but if it was Conor O'Shea, what was to stop Holmes and Connelly saying it? By not saying who it was, they knew well the assumption that would have been made. If it was Conor O'Shea, naming him would help their argument much, much more.
There's assumptions about the O'Sheas and Rochford sitting together at the semi-final. I find that preposterous. What proof is there of that?
Long and short of this is that after four years with Horan, Mayo would nearly have done as well as they did in 2015 in neutral gear with any management but issues that were there during the year might have made that a much harder ask in 2016. 27 players voted no confidence, seven voted the other way. That's more than a small group! And those seven attended with the full group of players to give a letter to the county board. There was no split in the camp and, save for Tom Cunniffe, there's been none since. If this was a stunt pulled by a few and players were exercising undue influence, do you think guys like Colm Boyle, Lee Keegan, Ger Cafferkey and Andy Moran would stand for it? Do you think if a few players got Rob Hennelly picked for the replay, David Clarke would be back in harness for 2017?
There are no assumptions about them sitting together at the semi final. That is a fact.
I cannot understand what Rochford was doing in that instance.
Absolutely barmy.
There is a limit to player power and currently across the board at inter county level players have too much say.
How is it a fact? They were spotted talking. This does not mean they were sitting beside each other. I've heard they were seated near each other but not beside each other - they would both have access to AIB tickets - and talked at half time as anyone would. I cannot prove this without seeing their ticket stubs but I believe it. I agree, if what you say is true, it's barmy and worrying. But I don't think it is.
Quote from: muppet on December 23, 2016, 10:14:47 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 02:17:23 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 01:56:39 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 01:22:14 AM
Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O’Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.
Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players. Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football? It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.
Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.
Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.
2010 was a bad summer after a decent spring where Mayo reached the league final beating Cork,Kerry,Tyrone along the way.
Under the guidance of H&C Mayo won 4 U21 Connacht titles in a row and one All Ireland between 2006 to 2009. Then the James Horan success with Mayo seniors 2011 to 2014 was built around that group of players that played on those 2006 to 2009 U21s teams.
Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins; Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle; Seamus O’Shea,Barry Moran,Tom Parsons,Donal Vaughan,Jason Doherty,Robert Hennelly,Kevin Keane,Lee Keegan, Kevin McLoughlin, Aidan O’Shea i might be missing a few more.
Like i said Horan hardly started from zero but he got the rub of the green in his first championship game that could have been a far worse result than losing to Longford or Sligo!
What you are missing, is the point.
Galway have had greater recent U-21 success in the football and it got them nowhere. Their success underage didn't translate when they upgraded the U-21 manager either. Look at Limerick's hurling 3 in a row. It means nothing.
Regarding senior football in 2010 Mayo were at a very low ebb. Losing consecutive championship games to Sligo and Longford is a dark place no matter how you look at it. Horan was a game-changer for us - literally. Nearly losing his first game doesn't alter that view any more than nearly winning All-Irelands makes you a champion.
The point moysider made was that Horan had to work from zero which isn't true.
Another manager in autumn of 2010 could have totally reshaped the Mayo panel with new players after those defeats to Sligo,Longford. Horan chose not too and while there is no guarantee in underage success Horan still built his team around youth in the hope and faith they would produce the goods. Another example of his faith in youth was making C O Connor a starter and main free taker at just 19.
A game changer for Horan and this group of players was the win against Cork that result gave them the belief to drive on in the years ahead things could have went the opposite way if Mayo had lost to London in 2011 instead.
Quote from: muppet on December 23, 2016, 10:14:47 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 02:17:23 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 01:56:39 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 01:22:14 AM
Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.
Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players. Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football? It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.
Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.
Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.
2010 was a bad summer after a decent spring where Mayo reached the league final beating Cork,Kerry,Tyrone along the way.
Under the guidance of H&C Mayo won 4 U21 Connacht titles in a row and one All Ireland between 2006 to 2009. Then the James Horan success with Mayo seniors 2011 to 2014 was built around that group of players that played on those 2006 to 2009 U21s teams.
Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins; Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle; Seamus O'Shea,Barry Moran,Tom Parsons,Donal Vaughan,Jason Doherty,Robert Hennelly,Kevin Keane,Lee Keegan, Kevin McLoughlin, Aidan O'Shea i might be missing a few more.
Like i said Horan hardly started from zero but he got the rub of the green in his first championship game that could have been a far worse result than losing to Longford or Sligo!
What you are missing, is the point.
Galway have had greater recent U-21 success in the football and it got them nowhere. Their success underage didn't translate when they upgraded the U-21 manager either. Look at Limerick's hurling 3 in a row. It means nothing.
I often hear this said but you have to give players time. Mayo's recent success came mainly from their 2006 All-Ireland winning U-21's. Mayo didn't reach a senior final with them until 2012 which was 6 years later. Galway's two All-Ireland U-21 sides were in 2011 and 2013. Plus there are other variables involved such as the strength of the existing squad that the young players are absorbed into.
I wouldn't say it's got Galway "nowhere" either. I do think they are better and improved side than they were a few years ago when they couldn't even win a game in the qualifiers.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 23, 2016, 03:00:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 23, 2016, 10:14:47 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 02:17:23 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 23, 2016, 01:56:39 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 01:22:14 AM
Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.
Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players. Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football? It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.
Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.
Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.
2010 was a bad summer after a decent spring where Mayo reached the league final beating Cork,Kerry,Tyrone along the way.
Under the guidance of H&C Mayo won 4 U21 Connacht titles in a row and one All Ireland between 2006 to 2009. Then the James Horan success with Mayo seniors 2011 to 2014 was built around that group of players that played on those 2006 to 2009 U21s teams.
Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins; Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle; Seamus O'Shea,Barry Moran,Tom Parsons,Donal Vaughan,Jason Doherty,Robert Hennelly,Kevin Keane,Lee Keegan, Kevin McLoughlin, Aidan O'Shea i might be missing a few more.
Like i said Horan hardly started from zero but he got the rub of the green in his first championship game that could have been a far worse result than losing to Longford or Sligo!
What you are missing, is the point.
Galway have had greater recent U-21 success in the football and it got them nowhere. Their success underage didn't translate when they upgraded the U-21 manager either. Look at Limerick's hurling 3 in a row. It means nothing.
I often hear this said but you have to give players time. Mayo's recent success came mainly from their 2006 All-Ireland winning U-21's. Mayo didn't reach a senior final with them until 2012 which was 6 years later. Galway's two All-Ireland U-21 sides were in 2011 and 2013. Plus there are other variables involved such as the strength of the existing squad that the young players are absorbed into.
I wouldn't say it's got Galway "nowhere" either. I do think they are better and improved side than they were a few years ago when they couldn't even win a game in the qualifiers.
Galway also won in 2002 and 2005. That is what the 2011 & 2013 sides should have been absorbed into. 4 U-21 All-Irelands in 11 years and still not a single Championship win in Croker.
Anyway the point wasn't to criticise Galway, it was to show that underage success isn't much of a guide.
Dublin won U21 All Irelands in 2010, 12 and 14. Gavin was the manager in 2010.
With the right management in place under age success can translate to Senior. Mullholland done well with Galway at U21 but didn't seem to inspire them at Senior. They seem to have a few players back for 2017, Armstrong, Lundy, Johnny Duane, Fintan O Curraoin, a
You hafta have a system to fit under 21s into. Galway have now. They didn't have before. I still think Galway will win Sam before Mayo do. All that wasted effort.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2016, 01:22:14 AM
Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.
I think if we are to make a fist of where we are going, it's best to keep in mind where we have come from. To start, we'd need to look at the Second Coming of John the Messiah and to do so in an objective state of mind.
Johnno took over a team of seasoned players who had contested the AI the previous season and was still mainly intact. Okay, the side had flopped in the final but had beaten the Dubs in a thrilling semi-final fighting back from 0-6 down and 20 minutes to go.
Micheál Ó Muircheartaigh called it the greatest game of all time. Hyperbole alright but , still, a top class game between two very good sides..
When John's reign came an end in 2010, his side managed somehow to get beaten by a piss-poor Sligo team that couldn't handle Roscommon and left through the Back Door in their next outing. Mayo also got booted out also rather abruptly, losing to a Div 4 side, Longford.
From the team Johnno inherited to the team he left behind him a steady line of team form could be drawn but unfortunately it would be straight down.
I never saw such a dispirited display from any Mayo side than the one I had the misfortune to witness that day in Sligo. I have had to stomach some awful bleddy useless displays from Mayo teams in my time and I can just about remember some of the survivors from '50 and '51 in action.
An incident in the second half summed up that dreadful day for me. Aidan O'Shea had just been dispossessed rather easily about his 45m line. Instead of tracking back as Horan would have him do, he turned his back on the play and stood with arms akimbo; hands on hips with elbows pointing out. Then he began to dig his toes into the ground. A few jabs with one and then the other as the action was unfolding in front of his own goal.
I didn't go to the Longford game because I didn't want to see Mayo humiliated so soon again after that awful day in Markievicz Park.
The following year, with James Horan in command, what was basically the same team got to the AI semis, taking a Connacht title along the way. To put it mildly, , John O'Mahony did Mayo a greater favour by getting to hell out of in 2010- rather than persisting in seeing how far he could take them on a downward curve.
I don't imagine that things could have gotten worse had he stayed on but I wouldn't have put any money on it either.
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Quote from: seafoid on December 23, 2016, 04:25:58 PM
You hafta have a system to fit under 21s into. Galway have now. They didn't have before. I still think Galway will win Sam before Mayo do. All that wasted effort.
Mickey Harte would not agree with you !
"But he pointed to the example of Mayo as a team to take inspiration from. Their hunger to get back and battle every year is a credit to them, says Harte.
"It's great to be part of an All-Ireland final even if you don't win it. People are talking about how many Mayo have missed and lost and all the rest of it, but how many counties have never experienced that opportunity?
"All those ones they lost, they had to be in the final so there's a lot of people in Mayo who have an experience of an All-Ireland. There's a huge amount of people who have played football who have never had a taste of that day.
"Mayo already had three All-Irelands tucked away before we got our first! I remember looking back and you'd have recognised that Mayo were All-Ireland champions on a couple of occasions before Tyrone were able to reach that height. I think Mayo can take great heart from the fact that they're coming back time after time, that they have quality players, they have good underage success."
"It's going to happen some day for them. The players, whatever day it's going to happen, they'll hope that they're the ones that are on the field. I think it's a question of when rather than if it will happen."
Lar, I couldn't agree with you more, that game in Sligo was the worst I've ever seen from Mayo in championship. Mayo started brilliantly with Alan Freeman running riot in his debut (he still hasn't been as good as he was in the two championship games in 2010) but Sligo turned the screw and the result was beyond doubt before the end, save for some nerves from an unfancied team on the brink of a shock.
Longford actually wasn't as bad in performance terms but if you could go back in time now I defy you to find any Mayo fan leaving that day who felt 'the future is bright'. It's easy to draw a line from now and say there was a great group there. There was a great group in the 1970s too, Minor All-Ireland in 1, U21 in 74 but we won no Connacht senior title that decade and only one out of the first five on offer in the 1980s. Horan's success in bringing Mayo where they were at the end of the 2011 season was incredible, to have them still at the level they are at is a huge testament to the players but in a big way to Horan himself. If Mayo win an All Ireland under Rochford, Horan will deserve a decent share of the credit.
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 23, 2016, 12:21:55 PM
David Brady says he's "nearly sick to death" of talking about Mayo football and fears that the recent criticism from the past senior management team could divide the county.
Speaking last night on Newstalk's Off The Ball programme, the former Mayo star said he felt that there's even more pressure on the team again to perform next season, after Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly pointed fingers at some of the players in the panel in an interview with the Irish Independent last week.
"I'm nearly sick to death talking about Mayo football, but there's always something. Whether it's September or December," said Brady.
"Nearly" is the key word there - surprised it took him so long to join the fray.
Only back from San Diego apparently. He would had his say earlier no doubt.
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 23, 2016, 09:30:44 PM
Only back from San Diego apparently. He would had his say earlier no doubt.
Hope he enjoyed being in the Whales Vagina.
Quote from: weareros on December 23, 2016, 09:03:10 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 23, 2016, 12:21:55 PM
David Brady says he's "nearly sick to death" of talking about Mayo football and fears that the recent criticism from the past senior management team could divide the county.
Speaking last night on Newstalk's Off The Ball programme, the former Mayo star said he felt that there's even more pressure on the team again to perform next season, after Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly pointed fingers at some of the players in the panel in an interview with the Irish Independent last week.
"I'm nearly sick to death talking about Mayo football, but there's always something. Whether it's September or December," said Brady.
"Nearly" is the key word there - surprised it took him so long to join the fray.
'divide' is the key word actually. David can be a bit scattered in his expression but he knows things.
Quote from: JoG2 on December 24, 2016, 12:16:01 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 23, 2016, 09:30:44 PM
Only back from San Diego apparently. He would had his say earlier no doubt.
Hope he enjoyed being in the Whales Vagina.
San Diego was named for a Spanish Catholic Saint by the name of St. Didacus by Spaniard Sebastián Vizcaíno who was sent to map the area in the early 1600's, which was originally discovered by the first European who was Portuguese João Rodrigues Cabrilho, (1499 - 1543), NOT by some German in 1904 for god's sakes, we go back a lot further than the year 1900. Anyone with a IQ higher than 100 and bothered to think about it could figure out the name "San Diego" as well as other major city names in California are Spanish in origin, not German.
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 24, 2016, 12:52:50 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 24, 2016, 12:16:01 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 23, 2016, 09:30:44 PM
Only back from San Diego apparently. He would had his say earlier no doubt.
Hope he enjoyed being in the Whales Vagina.
San Diego was named for a Spanish Catholic Saint by the name of St. Didacus by Spaniard Sebastián Vizcaíno who was sent to map the area in the early 1600's, which was originally discovered by the first European who was Portuguese João Rodrigues Cabrilho, (1499 - 1543), NOT by some German in 1904 for god's sakes, we go back a lot further than the year 1900. Anyone with a IQ higher than 100 and bothered to think about it could figure out the name "San Diego" as well as other major city names in California are Spanish in origin, not German.
I always thought it was named after patron saint of Spain, St. James aka 'Matamoros', the killer of Moors . The apostle that supposedly reappeared in the 9th century on a white horse to bate all muslims around him. For this miracle he became patron saint of Spain - The Slayer of Moors. Spanish missionaries brought him to the New World. San Diego is St. James. The pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela in Galicia is about this warrior apostle.
I always thought Santiago in Chile had same origin.
Quote from: moysider on December 24, 2016, 12:46:48 AM
Quote from: weareros on December 23, 2016, 09:03:10 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 23, 2016, 12:21:55 PM
David Brady says he's "nearly sick to death" of talking about Mayo football and fears that the recent criticism from the past senior management team could divide the county.
Speaking last night on Newstalk's Off The Ball programme, the former Mayo star said he felt that there's even more pressure on the team again to perform next season, after Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly pointed fingers at some of the players in the panel in an interview with the Irish Independent last week.
"I'm nearly sick to death talking about Mayo football, but there's always something. Whether it's September or December," said Brady.
"Nearly" is the key word there - surprised it took him so long to join the fray.
'divide' is the key word actually. David can be a bit scattered in his expression but he knows things.
Are you sure he knows things.
He seemed happy enough to tweet support for that anti northern indo article last week. Irony he is now worried about the divide in MAyo football.
Quote from: moysider on December 24, 2016, 01:46:15 AM
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 24, 2016, 12:52:50 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 24, 2016, 12:16:01 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 23, 2016, 09:30:44 PM
Only back from San Diego apparently. He would had his say earlier no doubt.
Hope he enjoyed being in the Whales Vagina.
San Diego was named for a Spanish Catholic Saint by the name of St. Didacus by Spaniard Sebastián Vizcaíno who was sent to map the area in the early 1600's, which was originally discovered by the first European who was Portuguese João Rodrigues Cabrilho, (1499 - 1543), NOT by some German in 1904 for god's sakes, we go back a lot further than the year 1900. Anyone with a IQ higher than 100 and bothered to think about it could figure out the name "San Diego" as well as other major city names in California are Spanish in origin, not German.
I always thought it was named after patron saint of Spain, St. James aka 'Matamoros', the killer of Moors . The apostle that supposedly reappeared in the 9th century on a white horse to bate all muslims around him. For this miracle he became patron saint of Spain - The Slayer of Moors. Spanish missionaries brought him to the New World. San Diego is St. James. The pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela in Galicia is about this warrior apostle.
I always thought Santiago in Chile had same origin.
Me too
And Iago in Shakespeare's play Othello ended up killing Othello, the Moor
The biblical name is Jacob but it became James, Seamus, Diego , Jacques ...Very strange
Where's Syfīn and the Bomber when they are needed?
This just has to make the 100 pages before midnight.
Just pushing this thread along... ;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 23, 2016, 11:30:33 AM
Questions for the pro-H&C brigade? (And anyone else for that matter!)
Do you believe H&C were originally appointed by a correct procedure?
Do you believe they were the proper (or best available) people for the job in hand?
Why didn't H&C deal aggressively with players named in the interview for not toeing the line?
Do you think that players who feel a Management regime that is not good enough should sit on their hands?
What do you believe this interview was for?
1. I don't know the ins and outs but the fact that there were close links to the county board would raise suspicion.
2. What other candidates were there, their track record was decent and as far as in house appointments go was there any other genuine alternatives? There is a story floating about players not wanting McStay (due to McHale). McStay doesn't seem to be going too well at Roscommon either.
3. They made mistakes, I don't think anyone will disagree with that but managers should ultimately be judged on results and to lesser extent performances.
4. I feel player should not be undertaking heaves against a management, demanding they be removed without any room for negotiation and threatening to go on strike if their demands aren't met.
5. The interview was to give their side of the story, quite clearly they were the victims here between what seems to be a disgruntled faction of preening players and some dubious politics at county board level. I thought they handled the situation with great dignity, they could easily have dug their heels in like what happened in Cork a few years back. There seems to be a backlash against them because they called out a number of players - tough shit, if they're prepared to go to the levels they did they should expect some stern criticism - it seems to be lacking within the county though.
Now, they are questions from one side. I haven't seen you tackle the O'Sheas and their role in this with the tough questions.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mayo-players-should-apologise-to-former-managers-machale-35316176.html
"I have played under many managers and never did any team that I played on ever question the men that were in charge. They had our total loyalty and when we failed to win the first person we looked at was oneself.
"How dare the players have an input into picking the manager along with the county board?
Well done Bomber.
Now where the Hell has Syfīn got to ;D.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2016, 05:07:18 PM
Well done Bomber.
Now where the Hell has Syfīn got to ;D.
Do not forget about Indiana.We need 3 wise men to comment on all things Mayo GAA
Quote from: maigheo on December 24, 2016, 05:22:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2016, 05:07:18 PM
Well done Bomber.
Now where the Hell has Syfīn got to ;D.
Do not forget about Indiana.We need 3 wise men to comment on all things Mayo GAA
:D
Wise?????
Quote from: maigheo on December 24, 2016, 05:22:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2016, 05:07:18 PM
Well done Bomber.
Now where the Hell has Syfīn got to ;D.
Do not forget about Indiana.We need 3 wise men to comment on all things Mayo GAA
You only really need me in fairness but I'm happy to share the fame just for pure optics
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2016, 05:07:18 PM
Well done Bomber.
Now where the Hell has Syfīn got to ;D.
I thought that was Liam Mc a getting a dig in at the divas until I clicked through. Pity.
Quote from: Syferus on December 24, 2016, 06:59:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2016, 05:07:18 PM
Well done Bomber.
Now where the Hell has Syfīn got to ;D.
I thought that was Liam Mc a getting a dig in at the divas until I clicked through. Pity.
Sure he's enough to do criticising our players on podcasts... but might be only a matter of time, given the same players objected to him.
Quote from: mayo.mick on December 24, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
Just pushing this thread along... ;D
Are we not at 100 pages yet?
Quote from: weareros on December 24, 2016, 07:32:23 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 24, 2016, 06:59:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2016, 05:07:18 PM
Well done Bomber.
Now where the Hell has Syfīn got to ;D.
I thought that was Liam Mc a getting a dig in at the divas until I clicked through. Pity.
Sure he's enough to do criticising our players on podcasts... but might be only a matter of time, given the same players objected to him.
In fairness McHale never comes across as malicious, that Mayo players came out against him because of relatively benign criticism is another reason no one is buying the Mayo players being blameless in all this. Sensitive souls..
Is there any Mayo poster here who will acknowledge the O'Sheas were out of order questioning and lobbying the management team on team selections?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 24, 2016, 04:20:37 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 23, 2016, 11:30:33 AM
Questions for the pro-H&C brigade? (And anyone else for that matter!)
Do you believe H&C were originally appointed by a correct procedure?
Do you believe they were the proper (or best available) people for the job in hand?
Why didn't H&C deal aggressively with players named in the interview for not toeing the line?
Do you think that players who feel a Management regime that is not good enough should sit on their hands?
What do you believe this interview was for?
1. I don't know the ins and outs but the fact that there were close links to the county board would raise suspicion.
2. What other candidates were there, their track record was decent and as far as in house appointments go was there any other genuine alternatives? There is a story floating about players not wanting McStay (due to McHale). McStay doesn't seem to be going too well at Roscommon either.
3. They made mistakes, I don't think anyone will disagree with that but managers should ultimately be judged on results and to lesser extent performances.
4. I feel player should not be undertaking heaves against a management, demanding they be removed without any room for negotiation and threatening to go on strike if their demands aren't met.
5. The interview was to give their side of the story, quite clearly they were the victims here between what seems to be a disgruntled faction of preening players and some dubious politics at county board level. I thought they handled the situation with great dignity, they could easily have dug their heels in like what happened in Cork a few years back. There seems to be a backlash against them because they called out a number of players - tough shit, if they're prepared to go to the levels they did they should expect some stern criticism - it seems to be lacking within the county though.
Now, they are questions from one side. I haven't seen you tackle the O'Sheas and their role in this with the tough questions.
Agree
Three figures, lads.
When I was in primary school in the 80's, we had a tough headmaster like most schools of the time and the same headmaster was pretty much hopeless at actual teaching..... but rule was kept by the ruler. Things changed from the 90's with a more encouraging, positive, respect-rather-than-fear approach from the head teacher and indeed all teachers.
The Mayo players were used to the more modern approach from their owns school days and from James Horans approach.
Pat Holmes though - God bless him - was more the tough headmaster...... loyal to the church (county board), tough on the pupils and hopeless when the (few and far between) enlightened folk of the time challenged his authority or his teaching ability.
We can read about a thousand rumours and half truths that attempt to explain why the players wanted them gone or why H&C were hard done by ....... but thats all just noise and the source of all issues come from the management style and ability. Wrong men were appointed. CB fcuked up.
Rochie is the man, Mayo for Sam, Happy Christmas!
100 pages.
Hallelujah!
I'm off for a Christmas pint or 3.
Quote from: blast05 on December 24, 2016, 09:24:20 PM
When I was in primary school in the 80's, we had a tough headmaster like most schools of the time and the same headmaster was pretty much hopeless at actual teaching..... but rule was kept by the ruler. Things changed from the 90's with a more encouraging, positive, respect-rather-than-fear approach from the head teacher and indeed all teachers.
The Mayo players were used to the more modern approach from their owns school days and from James Horans approach.
Pat Holmes though - God bless him - was more the tough headmaster...... loyal to the church (county board), tough on the pupils and hopeless when the (few and far between) enlightened folk of the time challenged his authority or his teaching ability.
We can read about a thousand rumours and half truths that attempt to explain why the players wanted them gone or why H&C were hard done by ....... but thats all just noise and the source of all issues come from the management style and ability. Wrong men were appointed. CB fcuked up.
Rochie is the man, Mayo for Sam, Happy Christmas!
Management teams should be judged by the results and performances of their teams, nothing else.
Quote from: blast05 on December 24, 2016, 09:24:20 PM
When I was in primary school in the 80's, we had a tough headmaster like most schools of the time and the same headmaster was pretty much hopeless at actual teaching..... but rule was kept by the ruler. Things changed from the 90's with a more encouraging, positive, respect-rather-than-fear approach from the head teacher and indeed all teachers.
The Mayo players were used to the more modern approach from their owns school days and from James Horans approach.
Pat Holmes though - God bless him - was more the tough headmaster...... loyal to the church (county board), tough on the pupils and hopeless when the (few and far between) enlightened folk of the time challenged his authority or his teaching ability.
We can read about a thousand rumours and half truths that attempt to explain why the players wanted them gone or why H&C were hard done by ....... but thats all just noise and the source of all issues come from the management style and ability. Wrong men were appointed. CB fcuked up.
Rochie is the man, Mayo for Sam, Happy Christmas!
Every coach has a different style and manner
Different players respond differently to the various styles
Same in any sport
Quote from: blast05 on December 24, 2016, 09:24:20 PM
When I was in primary school in the 80's, we had a tough headmaster like most schools of the time and the same headmaster was pretty much hopeless at actual teaching..... but rule was kept by the ruler. Things changed from the 90's with a more encouraging, positive, respect-rather-than-fear approach from the head teacher and indeed all teachers.
The Mayo players were used to the more modern approach from their owns school days and from James Horans approach.
Pat Holmes though - God bless him - was more the tough headmaster...... loyal to the church (county board), tough on the pupils and hopeless when the (few and far between) enlightened folk of the time challenged his authority or his teaching ability.
We can read about a thousand rumours and half truths that attempt to explain why the players wanted them gone or why H&C were hard done by ....... but thats all just noise and the source of all issues come from the management style and ability. Wrong men were appointed. CB fcuked up.
Rochie is the man, Mayo for Sam, Happy Christmas!
Not one poster from Mayo has addressed the issues.
A county in denial.
On and off the field
Quote from: INDIANA on December 24, 2016, 11:07:19 PM
Quote from: blast05 on December 24, 2016, 09:24:20 PM
When I was in primary school in the 80's, we had a tough headmaster like most schools of the time and the same headmaster was pretty much hopeless at actual teaching..... but rule was kept by the ruler. Things changed from the 90's with a more encouraging, positive, respect-rather-than-fear approach from the head teacher and indeed all teachers.
The Mayo players were used to the more modern approach from their owns school days and from James Horans approach.
Pat Holmes though - God bless him - was more the tough headmaster...... loyal to the church (county board), tough on the pupils and hopeless when the (few and far between) enlightened folk of the time challenged his authority or his teaching ability.
We can read about a thousand rumours and half truths that attempt to explain why the players wanted them gone or why H&C were hard done by ....... but thats all just noise and the source of all issues come from the management style and ability. Wrong men were appointed. CB fcuked up.
Rochie is the man, Mayo for Sam, Happy Christmas!
Not one poster from Mayo has addressed the issues.
A county in denial.
On and off the field
I've addressed the primary issue. Everything else is secondary. But give me your specific list if you wish and I will go through those secondary issues one by one
And I'll Bomber ..... a high-performance team (in industry or sport) can continue as high-achievers in the absence of effective leadership or management for a period of time. The time will come though when the absence of effective leadership\management will start to hurt the team. Mayo players were smart enough to recognise that they were in danger of being 'hurt'
Quote from: blast05 on December 25, 2016, 12:10:37 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 24, 2016, 11:07:19 PM
Quote from: blast05 on December 24, 2016, 09:24:20 PM
When I was in primary school in the 80's, we had a tough headmaster like most schools of the time and the same headmaster was pretty much hopeless at actual teaching..... but rule was kept by the ruler. Things changed from the 90's with a more encouraging, positive, respect-rather-than-fear approach from the head teacher and indeed all teachers.
The Mayo players were used to the more modern approach from their owns school days and from James Horans approach.
Pat Holmes though - God bless him - was more the tough headmaster...... loyal to the church (county board), tough on the pupils and hopeless when the (few and far between) enlightened folk of the time challenged his authority or his teaching ability.
We can read about a thousand rumours and half truths that attempt to explain why the players wanted them gone or why H&C were hard done by ....... but thats all just noise and the source of all issues come from the management style and ability. Wrong men were appointed. CB fcuked up.
Rochie is the man, Mayo for Sam, Happy Christmas!
Not one poster from Mayo has addressed the issues.
A county in denial.
On and off the field
I've addressed the primary issue. Everything else is secondary. But give me your specific list if you wish and I will go through those secondary issues one by one
And I'll Bomber ..... a high-performance team (in industry or sport) can continue as high-achievers in the absence of effective leadership or management for a period of time. The time will come though when the absence of effective leadership\management will start to hurt the team. Mayo players were smart enough to recognise that they were in danger of being 'hurt'
..they got worse this year under Rochford.
They got worse? Only one match that matters you said in another post to Mayo and thats the final.
We were closer to winning an all Ireland this year than any other year in this era. Yall crazy mofos. Mayo arent going away and its killing the haters because they know we are closer than ever. We will reach the final again .
Quote from: blast05 on December 25, 2016, 12:10:37 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 24, 2016, 11:07:19 PM
Quote from: blast05 on December 24, 2016, 09:24:20 PM
When I was in primary school in the 80's, we had a tough headmaster like most schools of the time and the same headmaster was pretty much hopeless at actual teaching..... but rule was kept by the ruler. Things changed from the 90's with a more encouraging, positive, respect-rather-than-fear approach from the head teacher and indeed all teachers.
The Mayo players were used to the more modern approach from their owns school days and from James Horans approach.
Pat Holmes though - God bless him - was more the tough headmaster...... loyal to the church (county board), tough on the pupils and hopeless when the (few and far between) enlightened folk of the time challenged his authority or his teaching ability.
We can read about a thousand rumours and half truths that attempt to explain why the players wanted them gone or why H&C were hard done by ....... but thats all just noise and the source of all issues come from the management style and ability. Wrong men were appointed. CB fcuked up.
Rochie is the man, Mayo for Sam, Happy Christmas!
Not one poster from Mayo has addressed the issues.
A county in denial.
On and off the field
I've addressed the primary issue. Everything else is secondary. But give me your specific list if you wish and I will go through those secondary issues one by one
And I'll Bomber ..... a high-performance team (in industry or sport) can continue as high-achievers in the absence of effective leadership or management for a period of time. The time will come though when the absence of effective leadership\management will start to hurt the team. Mayo players were smart enough to recognise that they were in danger of being 'hurt'
There is nothing to suggest Mayo players were smart, there is everything to say that a certain group of Mayo players staged a heave against the management team over personal grievances as in terms of performances and results, there didn't seem to be any damage.
On the face of it, in 2015 Mayo cruised to the semi-final with no problems, they were lucky in the first game against Dublin, but in the replay they had the match in their grasp before a series of inexplicable individual errors by their players saw them blow it in the last 20 minutes.
Compare with 2016, lost to Galway, Aidan O'Shea had to con the referee in Castlebar to get them over the line against Fermangh, Tyrone had all the chances to put them away in the qf, they had the handiest SF draw since Tyrone took on Wexford in 2008 and while they may have played well in both the final and replay against Dublin, they still only lead 140 minutes of football for just a handful of minutes.
There is nothing to suggest Mayo improved this year. In football terms, there is nothing to validate the removal of management in the way they did it unless they go out and win it - they failed this year and they don't look any better than they did in 2015.
Once again, it's another denial in looking at the role of the players - there are no football reasons for the removal, only players exercising personal grievances. Holmes and Connelly have alluded to the O'Sheas playing a central role in their removal because they were told team selections were no business on them and that Aidan O'Shea should more focus on his football than other stuff outside of it. This looked like it was a big blow to their egos and no manager will cut Aidan O'Shea down like that and stay in his job....
This song reminds me of the Mayo footballers :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsFhp0zCrhk
I wonder what they are cooking up in Ballina and Cashelbar this weather
Good article by Thomas O'Shea.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-kerry-and-dubs-dont-care-what-others-say-about-them-neither-should-mayo-35318728.html
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 25, 2016, 11:34:57 AM
Good article by Thomas O'Shea.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-kerry-and-dubs-dont-care-what-others-say-about-them-neither-should-mayo-35318728.html
He's correct on how wrong staging a heave against management is.
The players claim they have set themselves seriously high standards and expectations over the years and they went above management to the county board to have the management team removed.
I wonder do the players have the same standards of themselves? Would they approach the management team and ask for Hennelly to be dropped from the squad for 2017 as his propensity to meltdown in big games for Mayo consistently over the years would be a direct contradiction of the high standards they set themselves. Oddly they seem to be lobbying for a player clearly not of the high standard they set themselves to be playing in the side.
Can anyone clear this up for me?
Give it up Bomber.Nobody cares what you or the other 2 amigos think about the whole situation.You and your 2 cohorts believe the players are 100 per cent wrong and nothing is going to change your mind.Go and enjoy the rest of your Christmas and have a happy new year.
Quote from: maigheo on December 25, 2016, 01:54:25 PM
Give it up Bomber.Nobody cares what you or the other 2 amigos think about the whole situation.You and your 2 cohorts believe the players are 100 per cent wrong and nothing is going to change your mind.Go and enjoy the rest of your Christmas and have a happy new year.
Buon Natale to you as well.
I believe the players are wrong but I don't like the way Holmes and Connelly were stitched up by their players and I find the refusal to accept any blame on the player's behalf wrong.
What do you want them to do?Start a back and forth with H and C.Of course there is some fault with the the players but ask your self that if you were one of the Mayo players who had given there all in the Horan years and a new manager comes in and tells you that you were not tough enough and had gotten bullied by Kerry in the semi final what would you be thinking especially from some one who trotted after Maurice Fitz in the 97 all irelandTo say you are not good enough is one thing but saying you are cowardly would be a bit to much to take.
Quote from: maigheo on December 25, 2016, 01:54:25 PM
Give it up Bomber.Nobody cares what you or the other 2 amigos think about the whole situation.You and your 2 cohorts believe the players are 100 per cent wrong and nothing is going to change your mind.Go and enjoy the rest of your Christmas and have a happy new year.
Indeed.
You're a Holmes or Connelly.
Quote from: larryin89 on December 25, 2016, 12:38:34 AM
They got worse? Only one match that matters you said in another post to Mayo and thats the final.
We were closer to winning an all Ireland this year than any other year in this era. Yall crazy mofos. Mayo arent going away and its killing the haters because they know we are closer than ever. We will reach the final again .
Ye have a great record of reaching finals. Pity ye dont do anything when ye get there
Quote from: maigheo on December 25, 2016, 02:42:38 PM
What do you want them to do?Start a back and forth with H and C.Of course there is some fault with the the players but ask your self that if you were one of the Mayo players who had given there all in the Horan years and a new manager comes in and tells you that you were not tough enough and had gotten bullied by Kerry in the semi final what would you be thinking especially from some one who trotted after Maurice Fitz in the 97 all irelandTo say you are not good enough is one thing but saying you are cowardly would be a bit to much to take.
I think they should come out and apologise to the management team they shafted and admit that what they did was completely unacceptable.
Those Mayo players might have given their all but against Kerry in 2014 in that game in Limerick, they had the opportunities to win that game, they should have seen it through, much like they should have done in 2015 against Dublin and against a Dublin team there for the taking with a guy who was concussed and another with a torn hamstring in the last 7/8 minutes. I don't doubt Mayo are good enough, you don't put yourself in winning positions in those kind of games on a consistent basis if you're not, the problem seems to be a psychological one that when the light is becoming visible at the end of the tunnel - they crumble, their brains turn to mush and mistakes they wouldn't usually make come to fruition.
Mayo can have grievances about refereeing decisions in 2014 against Kerry, they can reference the fact O'Connor and O'Shea ran into each other, the fact the game was in Limerick etc etc but despite all those matters going against them - they should not have let that game slip when they had it in their grasp. In the end it came down to Kerry having the nerve to see it through and if there's anything Mayo have shown in the past it's that ruthless streak when the game is their hands to finish off, they are not great at seeing it through.
I was at the Dublin-Mayo replay in 2015, with 20 odd minutes to go Dublin were reeling and you could definitely sense the panic from their fans in the stand. In that final 20 minutes certain Mayo players made big mistakes that they had not made up to that part. Cafferkey inexplicably showing Borgan the inside for the first goal, Hennelly filling his togs at the sight of McMahon coming in, Keegan dropping an easy shot into the keeper's hands, Aidan O'Shea nowhere to be seen as his marker runs riot. Mayo had played brilliantly up until that point to get themselves into that position then they crumbled and sadly for them it has been an all to familiar story.
Given what Holmes and Connelly have come out and other stories also out there like the McHale one - it certainly doesn't paint the Mayo players in a good light.
What would have happened had the players had the nerve to see out the Dublin match in 2015? Would they have still wanted to sack the management team who steamrolled through Connacht, easily dispatched of Donegal in the QF and then took out the All Ireland favourites in the semi final?
Quote from: blast05 on December 25, 2016, 12:10:37 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 24, 2016, 11:07:19 PM
Quote from: blast05 on December 24, 2016, 09:24:20 PM
When I was in primary school in the 80's, we had a tough headmaster like most schools of the time and the same headmaster was pretty much hopeless at actual teaching..... but rule was kept by the ruler. Things changed from the 90's with a more encouraging, positive, respect-rather-than-fear approach from the head teacher and indeed all teachers.
The Mayo players were used to the more modern approach from their owns school days and from James Horans approach.
Pat Holmes though - God bless him - was more the tough headmaster...... loyal to the church (county board), tough on the pupils and hopeless when the (few and far between) enlightened folk of the time challenged his authority or his teaching ability.
We can read about a thousand rumours and half truths that attempt to explain why the players wanted them gone or why H&C were hard done by ....... but thats all just noise and the source of all issues come from the management style and ability. Wrong men were appointed. CB fcuked up.
Rochie is the man, Mayo for Sam, Happy Christmas!
Not one poster from Mayo has addressed the issues.
A county in denial.
On and off the field
I've addressed the primary issue. Everything else is secondary. But give me your specific list if you wish and I will go through those secondary issues one by one
And I'll Bomber ..... a high-performance team (in industry or sport) can continue as high-achievers in the absence of effective leadership or management for a period of time. The time will come though when the absence of effective leadership\management will start to hurt the team. Mayo players were smart enough to recognise that they were in danger of being 'hurt'
The primary issue in reading the thread is the belief in Mayo posters that Holmes/ Connelly should have said nothing.
Which is completely wrong.
They were entitled to their say. the players threw them under the bus last year and nobody here from Mayo cared about either their professional or personal reputation at the time. So they were perfectly entitled to give their opinion regardless of people here ( who are more then happy to give their opinion it seems because they never have to put their name to anything!)
I think a group of players blackmailing the county board into making a decision under the threat of strike action is absolutely scandalous to be perfectly blunt.
It's a pity with Mayo after winning an AI U21. There is a small window of opportunity next year for Mayo to supplement their senior squad with actual all Ireland winners and make a big push before Kerry take over in 2-3 years time for about 3-5 years. But it will all go out in the wash unless some of the egos on the panel are reigned in.
I don't envy Rochford's position.
Quote
It's a pity with Mayo after winning an AI U21. There is a small window of opportunity next year for Mayo to supplement their senior squad with actual all Ireland winners
Mayo had plenty of actual All Ireland winners on their senior team this year from the 2006 U21 team. This years U21 winning team probably won't produce as many established seniors because the quality of the U21 championship wasn't as high as 2006 or as high as recent years.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 25, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Quote
It's a pity with Mayo after winning an AI U21. There is a small window of opportunity next year for Mayo to supplement their senior squad with actual all Ireland winners
Mayo had plenty of actual All Ireland winners on their senior team this year from the 2006 U21 team. This years U21 winning team probably won't produce as many established seniors because the quality of the U21 championship wasn't as high as 2006 or as high as recent years.
O'Connor, Coen and Akram will be starters unless Mayo make a total hames of things.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 25, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Quote
It's a pity with Mayo after winning an AI U21. There is a small window of opportunity next year for Mayo to supplement their senior squad with actual all Ireland winners
Mayo had plenty of actual All Ireland winners on their senior team this year from the 2006 U21 team. This years U21 winning team probably won't produce as many established seniors because the quality of the U21 championship wasn't as high as 2006 or as high as recent years.
It was higher then 2006 because they beat Dublin.
You forgot that bit
Quote from: INDIANA on December 25, 2016, 10:03:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 25, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Quote
It's a pity with Mayo after winning an AI U21. There is a small window of opportunity next year for Mayo to supplement their senior squad with actual all Ireland winners
Mayo had plenty of actual All Ireland winners on their senior team this year from the 2006 U21 team. This years U21 winning team probably won't produce as many established seniors because the quality of the U21 championship wasn't as high as 2006 or as high as recent years.
It was higher then 2006 because they beat Dublin.
You forgot that bit
No bit forgot on my behalf at at.
The Dublin U21 team Mayo beat this year by one point wasn't a patch on the Dublin 2010,2012 or 2014 U21 All Irelands winning teams.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 25, 2016, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 25, 2016, 10:03:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 25, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Quote
It's a pity with Mayo after winning an AI U21. There is a small window of opportunity next year for Mayo to supplement their senior squad with actual all Ireland winners
Mayo had plenty of actual All Ireland winners on their senior team this year from the 2006 U21 team. This years U21 winning team probably won't produce as many established seniors because the quality of the U21 championship wasn't as high as 2006 or as high as recent years.
It was higher then 2006 because they beat Dublin.
You forgot that bit
No bit forgot on my behalf at at.
The Dublin U21 team Mayo beat this year by one point wasn't a patch on the Dublin 2010,2012 or 2014 U21 All Irelands winning teams.
Not claiming it was but at u21 and senior level since 2011 we have been the standard bearers. So beating us in the championship at either grade signifies a group capable of mixing it with the best. And elevates the championship win to a group of players as capable of mixing it well at senior level.
the reality is had we beaten Mayo we'd have won it
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 25, 2016, 11:34:57 AM
Good article by Thomas O'Shea.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-kerry-and-dubs-dont-care-what-others-say-about-them-neither-should-mayo-35318728.html
Not good from Tomás.
He was good in an earlier speak on this but seems to have revised his position. He talks about county board backing up management they put place, while last week he was about county board should make sure county board should make sure they get the right people in place. He knows well that H&C were not the right people. Then he changes tack. He blames management and players and doesn't mention county board that created the mess in this article.
He also goes on about going along with a manager at club level on the face of things but players deciding to do their own thing. Ye have to laugh about some of this stuff.
As regards chip on shoulder. Nonsense. Players that have kept pushing for the summit but dismissed by press and former players - like Tomás - as a bunch of losers.
I never such a shower of losers concern so many people. Dublin, Kerry and others should be delighted with our messing about.
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AM
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 26, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AM
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Back when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 26, 2016, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 26, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AM
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Back when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.
Absolute bollocks.
You are burying your head in the sand.
Managers should be judged on the results and performances of their side, their Championship performances were on a par at least with what went before and came afterwards.
The real reason for the coup seems to be that certain players egos were not massaged and they exercised perceived personal grievances with the management team by threatening a strike to have them removed. That is unacceptable but a lot here are completely burying their heads in the sand.
It is not the remit of players to have input in team selections.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in removing management teams.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in the appointment of management teams.
These are the issues the Mayo posters here will not address, all that is being proffered as justification is cryptic and vague hints that there was more behind it that what is in the public domain. The fact is that unless you were in the camp and knew what happened, you are taking leaps of faith and the leaps of faith seem to be very subjective to those of the players from the Mayo posters here. There doesn't seem to be anything concrete behind what they are putting forward, just the side of the story they'd like to believe.
I'm a pragmatist and that's why I have to side with Holmes and Connelly on this matter, nothing justifies the actions of the Mayo players on this, it is not their business to decide management teams and the results and the performances are the only substantive measure for managers, in their only season Holmes and Connelly did as well as any management team - past or present. A personality clash between certain players and management is the only obvious reason for this.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 25, 2016, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 25, 2016, 10:03:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 25, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Quote
It's a pity with Mayo after winning an AI U21. There is a small window of opportunity next year for Mayo to supplement their senior squad with actual all Ireland winners
Mayo had plenty of actual All Ireland winners on their senior team this year from the 2006 U21 team. This years U21 winning team probably won't produce as many established seniors because the quality of the U21 championship wasn't as high as 2006 or as high as recent years.
It was higher then 2006 because they beat Dublin.
You forgot that bit
No bit forgot on my behalf at at.
The Dublin U21 team Mayo beat this year by one point wasn't a patch on the Dublin 2010,2012 or 2014 U21 All Irelands winning teams.
The Mayo u21 team that beat Dublin this year wasn't a patch on the Mayo 2010, 2012 or 2014 teams. Now obviously this is a nonsensical argument that cannot be proved either way but hey this seems to be the way this thread is gone so fcuk it there ya go
Quote from: criostlinn on December 26, 2016, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 25, 2016, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 25, 2016, 10:03:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 25, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Quote
It's a pity with Mayo after winning an AI U21. There is a small window of opportunity next year for Mayo to supplement their senior squad with actual all Ireland winners
Mayo had plenty of actual All Ireland winners on their senior team this year from the 2006 U21 team. This years U21 winning team probably won't produce as many established seniors because the quality of the U21 championship wasn't as high as 2006 or as high as recent years.
It was higher then 2006 because they beat Dublin.
You forgot that bit
No bit forgot on my behalf at at.
The Dublin U21 team Mayo beat this year by one point wasn't a patch on the Dublin 2010,2012 or 2014 U21 All Irelands winning teams.
The Mayo u21 team that beat Dublin this year wasn't a patch on the Mayo 2010, 2012 or 2014 teams. Now obviously this is a nonsensical argument that cannot be proved either way but hey this seems to be the way this thread is gone so fcuk it there ya go
Nonsensical argument? Easy to know you haven't followed the underage scene closely the last few years but hey if you want to believe it was a strong Dublin U21 team this year knock yourself out.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 26, 2016, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 26, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AM
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Back when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.
Absolute bollocks.
You are burying your head in the sand.
Managers should be judged on the results and performances of their side, their Championship performances were on a par at least with what went before and came afterwards.
The real reason for the coup seems to be that certain players egos were not massaged and they exercised perceived personal grievances with the management team by threatening a strike to have them removed. That is unacceptable but a lot here are completely burying their heads in the sand.
It is not the remit of players to have input in team selections.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in removing management teams.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in the appointment of management teams.
These are the issues the Mayo posters here will not address, all that is being proffered as justification is cryptic and vague hints that there was more behind it that what is in the public domain. The fact is that unless you were in the camp and knew what happened, you are taking leaps of faith and the leaps of faith seem to be very subjective to those of the players from the Mayo posters here. There doesn't seem to be anything concrete behind what they are putting forward, just the side of the story they'd like to believe.
I'm a pragmatist and that's why I have to side with Holmes and Connelly on this matter, nothing justifies the actions of the Mayo players on this, it is not their business to decide management teams and the results and the performances are the only substantive measure for managers, in their only season Holmes and Connelly did as well as any management team - past or present. A personality clash between certain players and management is the only obvious reason for this.
You see bombers problem here is he just doesn't get. Not his fault really, as there are a lot of things he just doesn't get as is shown by is continuous ramblings all over this board. On this thread instead of just going away and accepting he doesn't get it he has a couple of other fools egging him on and this has resulted in the absolute nonsense came out in this post.
As Lar has already pointed out the trouble that came about as a result of the appointment process was well flag. Not only was it discussed all over Mayo, it was also discussed at Co Board level and resulted in resignations from the board. But the power brokers pushed on, patting themselves on the back for the great appointment.
Everyone knew that the real reason for the appointment was to cut back on spending and this meant putting the players back in their boxes. James Horan brought this team to within a kick of a ball of winning an All Ireland final but this meant increased spending on team preparation. It also meant Horan had more of a say on how things were run and when things were going well no one could say a word. But Horan was hated. As far as some were concerned he had to much power and our Co Board men didn't like this one bit.
When Horan left they made sure they wouldn't make the same mistake again. In a dictatorship only the dictators can have control. What better way to ensure total control but to appoint a relation of the leader. This is something you see in the middle east time and time again
So the Dynamic Duo took up and straight away attempted to sort out the plebs. Cuts made in the medical team, cuts made in training expenses. This all at a time when the other serious All Ireland contenders were taking things to another level. And the players should keeps their mouths shut. Be good little boys and say nothing. You see they have no all Ireland medals so what do they know.
This group of players never had a problem with self criticism. Under James Horan they always tried to identify problems and rectify them. Just look at the player Aiden O'Shea was in 2010 and see how he improved every year under Horan. He addressed issues with is fitness and overall play. Look at the team that was physically beat up a stick by Kerry in 2011 and how they transformed themselves over the next couple of years. Ok. They didn't reach the holy grail but they came damn close and I have never heard one of these players making an excuse or blaming a referee.
The least they could have expected when Horan left was someone that may be able to offer something a little bit different. Bomber keeps on pointing that H&C achieved the same results in 2015 as Horan did up to this but the simple point he is missing is the players didn't want the same results. Maybe someone that could help them identify areas that they could improve and put time and resources into improving this. Not some gobshite who himself stood of a man as he scored 11 points in an All Ireland telling them that they were bullied by Kerry and all they are good for is making excuses. Not some Co Board lackies whose number 1 priorty was to cut expenses. As for reaching the All Ireland semi final and losing to Dublin in a replay. This team without a manager could have achieved this. Despite not having actually one an All Ireland they reached the semi every year in the previous 4 years and certainly did not need H&C to guide them to this. One saying you often hear mentioned is you learn more from losing then winning. Mayo lost the 2014 replay after a 6 day turnaround. I wonder would the players have anything to offer management on ways they could rectify any problems they identified from the previous year when they faced the same thing in 2015. I also wonder how much heed management paid of these opinions. But then sure the players have no All Irelands so what would they know.
I've said this before, some of these players had the misfortune of playing under a management which came about as a result of a County Board stroke. Micky Moran got above his station and he was cut at the knees. We seen what happened the next 4 years as the players kept their mouths shuts. Thank good these players were a lot braver. The only thing I wonder after reading this H&C list of excuses why they didnt make it at management is why the players didn't do what Offaly hurlers did and fcuk these chancers out long before they did. You never know with a proper set up they may have pulled of something special in 2015
Brilliantly said Criostlinn.Nail on the head and all that.
Quote from: criostlinn on December 26, 2016, 02:20:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 26, 2016, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 26, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AM
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Back when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.
Absolute bollocks.
You are burying your head in the sand.
Managers should be judged on the results and performances of their side, their Championship performances were on a par at least with what went before and came afterwards.
The real reason for the coup seems to be that certain players egos were not massaged and they exercised perceived personal grievances with the management team by threatening a strike to have them removed. That is unacceptable but a lot here are completely burying their heads in the sand.
It is not the remit of players to have input in team selections.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in removing management teams.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in the appointment of management teams.
These are the issues the Mayo posters here will not address, all that is being proffered as justification is cryptic and vague hints that there was more behind it that what is in the public domain. The fact is that unless you were in the camp and knew what happened, you are taking leaps of faith and the leaps of faith seem to be very subjective to those of the players from the Mayo posters here. There doesn't seem to be anything concrete behind what they are putting forward, just the side of the story they'd like to believe.
I'm a pragmatist and that's why I have to side with Holmes and Connelly on this matter, nothing justifies the actions of the Mayo players on this, it is not their business to decide management teams and the results and the performances are the only substantive measure for managers, in their only season Holmes and Connelly did as well as any management team - past or present. A personality clash between certain players and management is the only obvious reason for this.
You see bombers problem here is he just doesn't get. Not his fault really as there are a lot of things he just doesn't get as is shown by is continuous ramblings all over this board. On this thread instead of just going away and accepting he doesn't get it he has a couple of other fools egging him on and this has resulted in the absolute nonsense that is came out in this post.
As Lar has already pointed out the trouble that came about as a result of the appointment process was well flag. Not only was it discussed all over Mayo it was also discussed at Co Board level and resulted in resignations from the board. But the power brokers pushed on, patting themselves on the back for the great appointment.
Everyone knew that the real reason for the appointment was to cut back on spending and this meant putting the players back in their boxes. James Horan brought this team to within a kick of a ball of winning an All Ireland final but this meant increased spending on team preparation. It also meant Horan had more of a say on how things were run and when things were going well no one could say a word. But Horan was hated. As far as some were concerned he had to much power and our Co Board men didn't like this one bit.
When Horan left they made sure they wouldn't make the same mistake again. In a dictatorship only the dictators can have control. What better way to ensure total control but to appoint a relation of the leader. This is something you see in the middle east time and time again
So the Dynamic Duo took up and straight away attempted to sort out the plebs. Cuts made in the medical team, cuts made in training expenses. This all at a time when the other serious All Ireland contenders were taking things to another level. And the players should keeps their mouths shut. Be good little boys and say nothing. You see they have no all Ireland medals so what do they know.
This group of players never had a problem with self criticism. Under James Horan they always tried to identify problems and rectify them. Just look at the player Aiden O'Shea was in 2010 and see how he improved every year under Horan. He addressed issues with is fitness and overall play. Look at the team that was physically beat up a stick by Kerry in 2011 and how they transformed themselves over the next couple of years. Ok. They didn't reach the holy grail but they came damn close and I have never heard one of these players making an excuse or blaming a referee.
The least they could have expected when Horan left was someone that may be able to offer something a little bit different. Bomber keeps on pointing that H&C achieved the same results in 2015 as Horan did up to this but the simple point he is missing is the players didn't want the same results. Maybe someone that could help them identify areas that they could improve and put time and resources into improving this. Not some gobshite who himself stood of a man as he scored 11 points in an All Ireland telling them that they were bullied by Kerry and all they are good for is making excuses. Not some Co Board lackies whose number 1 priorty was to cut expenses. As for reaching the All Ireland semi final and losing to Dublin in a replay. This team without a manager could have achieved this. Despite not having actually one an All Ireland they reached the semi every year in the previous 4 years and certainly did not need H&C to guide them to this. One saying you often hear mentioned is you learn more from losing then winning. Mayo lost the 2014 replay after a 6 day turnaround. I wonder would the players have anything to offer management on ways they could rectify any problems they identified from the previous year when they faced the same thing in 2015. I also wonder how much heed management paid of these opinions. But then sure the players have no All Irelands so what would they know.
I've said this before, some of these players had the misfortune of playing under a management which came about as a result of a County Board stroke. Micky Moran got above hs station and he was cut at the knees. We seen what happened the next 4 years as the players kept their mouths shuts. Thank good they were a lot braver this time. The only thing I wonder after reading this H&C list of excuses why they didnt make it at management is why the players didn't do what Offaly hurlers did and fcuk these chancers out long before they did. You never know with a proper set up they may have pulled of something special in 2015
Absolutely none of that justifies or validates the actions of the Mayo players.
All may not have been prim and proper in the appointment of the management teams and they may have upset some players and made some mistakes through their tenure but that doesn't justify or excuse the actions of the Mayo players.
The vendetta being exercised against Holmes and Connelly here is pathetic, their own failings as players now apparently doesn't allow them, in their roles as managers, to criticise their own players. Imagine some of the Tyrone lads telling Mickey Harte what he would know because he had a modest playing career? From what has been publicised it seems that Mayo players are very precious about the criticism that is dished out to them, some people may point to the fact that Holmes and Connelly were old school, that their type of management was not a good fit with the modern game but you can't say that and ignore the precious reactions of Mayo players to reasonable criticism of how they have failed to get over the line when they have been in a good position to.
Does the fact Keith Higgins got taken for a big score off James O'Donoghue disqualify him from ever criticising a Mayo player in the future? How many scores from play did Fitzgerald even hit from play in that aforementioned game?I think the rules require you to stand off a dead ball specialist when he is taking a free, 45 or sideline ball.
The area Mayo need to build on most in order to win an AI is their mental strength and character. Time and time again they have got themselves to within 10 or 15 minutes of touching distance to win an AI but time and time again their heads have turned to mush in that period. The players seem to take criticism of that very personally, they should be using this as a fuel to prove people wrong. Rather than throwing the petted lip when this type of doubt and criticism is cast their way they should be using it as motivation to prove the doubters wrong.
There is nothing you have said there that makes what the Mayo players did justifiable or acceptable.
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=264481
It took a lot of luck for Mayo to even make this year's final it should be remembered. Hard to see a case where Rochford did anything better than H&C did. But sure if Gary Sice says he's awesome that should be enough, right?
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
Quote from: criostlinn on December 26, 2016, 02:20:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 26, 2016, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 26, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AM
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Back when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.
Absolute bollocks.
You are burying your head in the sand.
Managers should be judged on the results and performances of their side, their Championship performances were on a par at least with what went before and came afterwards.
The real reason for the coup seems to be that certain players egos were not massaged and they exercised perceived personal grievances with the management team by threatening a strike to have them removed. That is unacceptable but a lot here are completely burying their heads in the sand.
It is not the remit of players to have input in team selections.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in removing management teams.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in the appointment of management teams.
These are the issues the Mayo posters here will not address, all that is being proffered as justification is cryptic and vague hints that there was more behind it that what is in the public domain. The fact is that unless you were in the camp and knew what happened, you are taking leaps of faith and the leaps of faith seem to be very subjective to those of the players from the Mayo posters here. There doesn't seem to be anything concrete behind what they are putting forward, just the side of the story they'd like to believe.
I'm a pragmatist and that's why I have to side with Holmes and Connelly on this matter, nothing justifies the actions of the Mayo players on this, it is not their business to decide management teams and the results and the performances are the only substantive measure for managers, in their only season Holmes and Connelly did as well as any management team - past or present. A personality clash between certain players and management is the only obvious reason for this.
I have never heard one of these players making an excuse or blaming a referee.
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/795375/ (http://www.sportsfile.com/id/795375/)
"Mayo's Cillian O'Connor and Barry Moran, right, confront referee Joe McQuillan as he looks at his watch after the final whistle."
http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/gaa/ref-told-cillian-there-was-time-left-moran-claims-607829.html
Quote from: criostlinn on December 26, 2016, 02:20:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 26, 2016, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 26, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AM
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Back when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.
Absolute bollocks.
You are burying your head in the sand.
Managers should be judged on the results and performances of their side, their Championship performances were on a par at least with what went before and came afterwards.
The real reason for the coup seems to be that certain players egos were not massaged and they exercised perceived personal grievances with the management team by threatening a strike to have them removed. That is unacceptable but a lot here are completely burying their heads in the sand.
It is not the remit of players to have input in team selections.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in removing management teams.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in the appointment of management teams.
These are the issues the Mayo posters here will not address, all that is being proffered as justification is cryptic and vague hints that there was more behind it that what is in the public domain. The fact is that unless you were in the camp and knew what happened, you are taking leaps of faith and the leaps of faith seem to be very subjective to those of the players from the Mayo posters here. There doesn't seem to be anything concrete behind what they are putting forward, just the side of the story they'd like to believe.
I'm a pragmatist and that's why I have to side with Holmes and Connelly on this matter, nothing justifies the actions of the Mayo players on this, it is not their business to decide management teams and the results and the performances are the only substantive measure for managers, in their only season Holmes and Connelly did as well as any management team - past or present. A personality clash between certain players and management is the only obvious reason for this.
You see bombers problem here is he just doesn't get. Not his fault really as there are a lot of things he just doesn't get as is shown by is continuous ramblings all over this board. On this thread instead of just going away and accepting he doesn't get it he has a couple of other fools egging him on and this has resulted in the absolute nonsense that is came out in this post.
As Lar has already pointed out the trouble that came about as a result of the appointment process was well flag. Not only was it discussed all over Mayo it was also discussed at Co Board level and resulted in resignations from the board. But the power brokers pushed on, patting themselves on the back for the great appointment.
Everyone knew that the real reason for the appointment was to cut back on spending and this meant putting the players back in their boxes. James Horan brought this team to within a kick of a ball of winning an All Ireland final but this meant increased spending on team preparation. It also meant Horan had more of a say on how things were run and when things were going well no one could say a word. But Horan was hated. As far as some were concerned he had to much power and our Co Board men didn't like this one bit.
When Horan left they made sure they wouldn't make the same mistake again. In a dictatorship only the dictators can have control. What better way to ensure total control but to appoint a relation of the leader. This is something you see in the middle east time and time again
So the Dynamic Duo took up and straight away attempted to sort out the plebs. Cuts made in the medical team, cuts made in training expenses. This all at a time when the other serious All Ireland contenders were taking things to another level. And the players should keeps their mouths shut. Be good little boys and say nothing. You see they have no all Ireland medals so what do they know.
This group of players never had a problem with self criticism. Under James Horan they always tried to identify problems and rectify them. Just look at the player Aiden O'Shea was in 2010 and see how he improved every year under Horan. He addressed issues with is fitness and overall play. Look at the team that was physically beat up a stick by Kerry in 2011 and how they transformed themselves over the next couple of years. Ok. They didn't reach the holy grail but they came damn close and I have never heard one of these players making an excuse or blaming a referee.
The least they could have expected when Horan left was someone that may be able to offer something a little bit different. Bomber keeps on pointing that H&C achieved the same results in 2015 as Horan did up to this but the simple point he is missing is the players didn't want the same results. Maybe someone that could help them identify areas that they could improve and put time and resources into improving this. Not some gobshite who himself stood of a man as he scored 11 points in an All Ireland telling them that they were bullied by Kerry and all they are good for is making excuses. Not some Co Board lackies whose number 1 priorty was to cut expenses. As for reaching the All Ireland semi final and losing to Dublin in a replay. This team without a manager could have achieved this. Despite not having actually one an All Ireland they reached the semi every year in the previous 4 years and certainly did not need H&C to guide them to this. One saying you often hear mentioned is you learn more from losing then winning. Mayo lost the 2014 replay after a 6 day turnaround. I wonder would the players have anything to offer management on ways they could rectify any problems they identified from the previous year when they faced the same thing in 2015. I also wonder how much heed management paid of these opinions. But then sure the players have no All Irelands so what would they know.
I've said this before, some of these players had the misfortune of playing under a management which came about as a result of a County Board stroke. Micky Moran got above hs station and he was cut at the knees. We seen what happened the next 4 years as the players kept their mouths shuts. Thank good they were a lot braver this time. The only thing I wonder after reading this H&C list of excuses why they didnt make it at management is why the players didn't do what Offaly hurlers did and fcuk these chancers out long before they did. You never know with a proper set up they may have pulled of something special in 2015
Super post Croistlinn. I'd agree with all of it.
I hear the holiday has been renamed St. Stephen Rochford Day in Mayo.
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Quote from: heffo on December 26, 2016, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 26, 2016, 02:20:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 26, 2016, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 26, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AM
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Back when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.
Absolute bollocks.
You are burying your head in the sand.
Managers should be judged on the results and performances of their side, their Championship performances were on a par at least with what went before and came afterwards.
The real reason for the coup seems to be that certain players egos were not massaged and they exercised perceived personal grievances with the management team by threatening a strike to have them removed. That is unacceptable but a lot here are completely burying their heads in the sand.
It is not the remit of players to have input in team selections.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in removing management teams.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in the appointment of management teams.
These are the issues the Mayo posters here will not address, all that is being proffered as justification is cryptic and vague hints that there was more behind it that what is in the public domain. The fact is that unless you were in the camp and knew what happened, you are taking leaps of faith and the leaps of faith seem to be very subjective to those of the players from the Mayo posters here. There doesn't seem to be anything concrete behind what they are putting forward, just the side of the story they'd like to believe.
I'm a pragmatist and that's why I have to side with Holmes and Connelly on this matter, nothing justifies the actions of the Mayo players on this, it is not their business to decide management teams and the results and the performances are the only substantive measure for managers, in their only season Holmes and Connelly did as well as any management team - past or present. A personality clash between certain players and management is the only obvious reason for this.
I have never heard one of these players making an excuse or blaming a referee.
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/795375/ (http://www.sportsfile.com/id/795375/)
"Mayo's Cillian O'Connor and Barry Moran, right, confront referee Joe McQuillan as he looks at his watch after the final whistle."
http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/gaa/ref-told-cillian-there-was-time-left-moran-claims-607829.html
That's it heffo. That's all you could find. An explanation why O' Connor went for a point instead of a goal. Jaysus lads ye are clutching at straws
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here long enough to know that much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
I've already answered that, I said there would certainly seem to have been dubious circumstances around it.
I also said that if an in-house appointment was being made, there were not much better qualified candidates around - word on the street seemed to be that there was an issue between the squad and the other candidate involved due to one of his backroom team. This has not been touched on.
Also, irrespective of that, it does not justify the Mayo players role in that heave?
The panel member was from the same club and voted for the management team to go, he now acknowledges it was wrong, he has admitted his own role in this and expressed some contrition about it.
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
Bit rich from a guy who has sought to fabricate incidents when it has come to tarnish Tyrone to start pedaling that line.
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
It doesn't impact on the rights or wrongs. You can certainly criticise the County Board for their role in the debacle but that has nothing to do with the Mayo team removing their management team - this is not and never should be in a playing squad's remit. What other viable choices were there in-house? McStay, we all know the story (true or not) with McHale. The 2013 minor management team?
Like it or lump it - Holmes and Connelly had a decent stock behind them. They managed Mayo to an All Ireland U21 title and Holmes had just brought Castlebar to an All Ireland club final that year. It's not as if it was an unbelievable left of field appointment.
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 02:30:34 PM
Brilliantly said Criostlinn.Nail on the head and all that.
Agree. You nailed it Criostlinn.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
It doesn't impact on the rights or wrongs. You can certainly criticise the County Board for their role in the debacle but that has nothing to do with the Mayo team removing their management team - this is not and never should be in a playing squad's remit. What other viable choices were there in-house? McStay, we all know the story (true or not) with McHale. The 2013 minor management team?
Like it or lump it - Holmes and Connelly had a decent stock behind them. They managed Mayo to an All Ireland U21 title and Holmes had just brought Castlebar to an All Ireland club final that year. It's not as if it was an unbelievable left of field appointment.
I asked you - '
Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?' The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
In any other situation the Players would have been wrong. The process selection was flawed and left H &C with an uphill battle from the start. The Credibility of H & C was damaged from the start. Unfortunately for them they were an appointment of convenience by the County Board. And are the victims of this mess. Bringing this back into the public domain has reinforced how corrupt the whole mess was at the start (the selection process). They (H & C) should have bit their lip! Just like Horan Bit his lip after the Cormac Reilly Fiasco in Limerick. It hurt him bad but speaking his (Horans) mind would have got him no where.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 26, 2016, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Halfquarter on December 26, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AM
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Back when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.
Absolute bollocks.
You are burying your head in the sand.
Managers should be judged on the results and performances of their side, their Championship performances were on a par at least with what went before and came afterwards.
The real reason for the coup seems to be that certain players egos were not massaged and they exercised perceived personal grievances with the management team by threatening a strike to have them removed. That is unacceptable but a lot here are completely burying their heads in the sand.
It is not the remit of players to have input in team selections.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in removing management teams.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in the appointment of management teams.
These are the issues the Mayo posters here will not address, all that is being proffered as justification is cryptic and vague hints that there was more behind it that what is in the public domain. The fact is that unless you were in the camp and knew what happened, you are taking leaps of faith and the leaps of faith seem to be very subjective to those of the players from the Mayo posters here. There doesn't seem to be anything concrete behind what they are putting forward, just the side of the story they'd like to believe.
I'm a pragmatist and that's why I have to side with Holmes and Connelly on this matter, nothing justifies the actions of the Mayo players on this, it is not their business to decide management teams and the results and the performances are the only substantive measure for managers, in their only season Holmes and Connelly did as well as any management team - past or present. A personality clash between certain players and management is the only obvious reason for this.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Well fair play Syferus, this is your best alias yet!
Honestly I did think there was a clone of your here but really there just couldn't be another loose cannon like you on the board. Maybe you'd make a New Year's resolution to bugger off and waste your time somewhere else.
Oh and a Happy New Year to you by the way.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
It doesn't impact on the rights or wrongs. You can certainly criticise the County Board for their role in the debacle but that has nothing to do with the Mayo team removing their management team - this is not and never should be in a playing squad's remit. What other viable choices were there in-house? McStay, we all know the story (true or not) with McHale. The 2013 minor management team?
Like it or lump it - Holmes and Connelly had a decent stock behind them. They managed Mayo to an All Ireland U21 title and Holmes had just brought Castlebar to an All Ireland club final that year. It's not as if it was an unbelievable left of field appointment.
I asked you - 'Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?' The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
In any other situation the Players would have been wrong. The process selection was flawed and left H &C with an uphill battle from the start. The Credibility of H & C was damaged from the start. Unfortunately for them they were an appointment of convenience by the County Board. And are the victims of this mess. Bringing this back into the public domain has reinforced how corrupt the whole mess was at the start (the selection process). They (H & C) should have bit their lip! Just like Horan Bit his lip after the Cormac Reilly Fiasco in Limerick. It hurt him bad but speaking his (Horans) mind would have got him no where.
Ok, so they are the victims of the mess. Finally we are getting somewhere.
The county board certainly have to take responsibility, as do the players.
Holmes and Connelly were treated disgracefully by the player, there is no absolving them of their actions simply because there were other parties at fault in this matter.
In all fairness, the whinging from Mayo about the Limerick venue in 2014 prior to the game was embarrassing, it wasn't really an issue yet they made a big issue out of it.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:34:47 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
It doesn't impact on the rights or wrongs. You can certainly criticise the County Board for their role in the debacle but that has nothing to do with the Mayo team removing their management team - this is not and never should be in a playing squad's remit. What other viable choices were there in-house? McStay, we all know the story (true or not) with McHale. The 2013 minor management team?
Like it or lump it - Holmes and Connelly had a decent stock behind them. They managed Mayo to an All Ireland U21 title and Holmes had just brought Castlebar to an All Ireland club final that year. It's not as if it was an unbelievable left of field appointment.
I asked you - 'Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?' The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
In any other situation the Players would have been wrong. The process selection was flawed and left H &C with an uphill battle from the start. The Credibility of H & C was damaged from the start. Unfortunately for them they were an appointment of convenience by the County Board. And are the victims of this mess. Bringing this back into the public domain has reinforced how corrupt the whole mess was at the start (the selection process). They (H & C) should have bit their lip! Just like Horan Bit his lip after the Cormac Reilly Fiasco in Limerick. It hurt him bad but speaking his (Horans) mind would have got him no where.
Ok, so they are the victims of the mess. Finally we are getting somewhere.
The county board certainly have to take responsibility, as do the players.
Holmes and Connelly were treated disgracefully by the player, there is no absolving them of their actions simply because there were other parties at fault in this matter.
In all fairness, the whinging from Mayo about the Limerick venue in 2014 prior to the game was embarrassing, it wasn't really an issue yet they made a big issue out of it.
Why? When was the last time a football team was forced to play an AI semi final in a Province of their opponents outside of Croker? Would Kerry have been happy to play in Pearce Stadium in Galway? A pure disgrace! And the County board doings as well!
Anyway you are on a losing Battle.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:34:47 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
It doesn't impact on the rights or wrongs. You can certainly criticise the County Board for their role in the debacle but that has nothing to do with the Mayo team removing their management team - this is not and never should be in a playing squad's remit. What other viable choices were there in-house? McStay, we all know the story (true or not) with McHale. The 2013 minor management team?
Like it or lump it - Holmes and Connelly had a decent stock behind them. They managed Mayo to an All Ireland U21 title and Holmes had just brought Castlebar to an All Ireland club final that year. It's not as if it was an unbelievable left of field appointment.
I asked you - 'Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?' The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
In any other situation the Players would have been wrong. The process selection was flawed and left H &C with an uphill battle from the start. The Credibility of H & C was damaged from the start. Unfortunately for them they were an appointment of convenience by the County Board. And are the victims of this mess. Bringing this back into the public domain has reinforced how corrupt the whole mess was at the start (the selection process). They (H & C) should have bit their lip! Just like Horan Bit his lip after the Cormac Reilly Fiasco in Limerick. It hurt him bad but speaking his (Horans) mind would have got him no where.
Ok, so they are the victims of the mess. Finally we are getting somewhere.
The county board certainly have to take responsibility, as do the players.
Holmes and Connelly were treated disgracefully by the player, there is no absolving them of their actions simply because there were other parties at fault in this matter.
In all fairness, the whinging from Mayo about the Limerick venue in 2014 prior to the game was embarrassing, it wasn't really an issue yet they made a big issue out of it.
Why? When was the last time a football team was forced to play an AI semi final in a Province of their opponents outside of Croker? Would Kerry have been happy to play in Pearce Stadium in Galway? A pure disgrace! And the County board doings as well!
Anyway you are on a losing Battle.
It was embarrassing, it wasn't as if it was a home venue for either side.
Scheduling issues was the reason, the game was in Limerick as it was the fairest venue with the required minimum capacity.
If it was Tyrone and Mayo and the game was outside of Croke Park in a neutral venue, the most suitable venue would be Thurles which would be more favourable to Mayo - that's just the rub of the green - pick your lip up off the floor and get on with it.
Mayo could certainly have issues with the refereeing that day but despite all the perceived injustices and bad luck they may feel they had that day, their players still had it in their hands to win that game - that is why introspection should be the first port of call.
It was a neutral venue, it was more advantageous to Kerry but there was not a fairer realistic alternative.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:48:56 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:34:47 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
It doesn't impact on the rights or wrongs. You can certainly criticise the County Board for their role in the debacle but that has nothing to do with the Mayo team removing their management team - this is not and never should be in a playing squad's remit. What other viable choices were there in-house? McStay, we all know the story (true or not) with McHale. The 2013 minor management team?
Like it or lump it - Holmes and Connelly had a decent stock behind them. They managed Mayo to an All Ireland U21 title and Holmes had just brought Castlebar to an All Ireland club final that year. It's not as if it was an unbelievable left of field appointment.
I asked you - 'Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?' The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
In any other situation the Players would have been wrong. The process selection was flawed and left H &C with an uphill battle from the start. The Credibility of H & C was damaged from the start. Unfortunately for them they were an appointment of convenience by the County Board. And are the victims of this mess. Bringing this back into the public domain has reinforced how corrupt the whole mess was at the start (the selection process). They (H & C) should have bit their lip! Just like Horan Bit his lip after the Cormac Reilly Fiasco in Limerick. It hurt him bad but speaking his (Horans) mind would have got him no where.
Ok, so they are the victims of the mess. Finally we are getting somewhere.
The county board certainly have to take responsibility, as do the players.
Holmes and Connelly were treated disgracefully by the player, there is no absolving them of their actions simply because there were other parties at fault in this matter.
In all fairness, the whinging from Mayo about the Limerick venue in 2014 prior to the game was embarrassing, it wasn't really an issue yet they made a big issue out of it.
Why? When was the last time a football team was forced to play an AI semi final in a Province of their opponents outside of Croker? Would Kerry have been happy to play in Pearce Stadium in Galway? A pure disgrace! And the County board doings as well!
Anyway you are on a losing Battle.
It was embarrassing, it wasn't as if it was a home venue for either side.
Scheduling issues was the reason, the game was in Limerick as it was the fairest venue with the required minimum capacity.
If it was Tyrone and Mayo and the game was outside of Croke Park in a neutral venue, the most suitable venue would be Thurles which would be more favourable to Mayo - that's just the rub of the green - pick your lip up off the floor and get on with it.
Mayo could certainly have issues with the refereeing that day but despite all the perceived injustices and bad luck they may feel they had that day, their players still had it in their hands to win that game - that is why introspection should be the first port of call.
It was a neutral venue, it was more advantageous to Kerry but there was not a fairer realistic alternative.
All water under the bridge now! Horan bit his lip, made no comment with that game as his swan song. He laid low and returned to do his media work unscathed! H & C should have done the same. They look silly from this episode! There is always another challenge around the corner. And their comments may have pushed away attractive suitors in the future.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 08:23:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:48:56 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:34:47 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
It doesn't impact on the rights or wrongs. You can certainly criticise the County Board for their role in the debacle but that has nothing to do with the Mayo team removing their management team - this is not and never should be in a playing squad's remit. What other viable choices were there in-house? McStay, we all know the story (true or not) with McHale. The 2013 minor management team?
Like it or lump it - Holmes and Connelly had a decent stock behind them. They managed Mayo to an All Ireland U21 title and Holmes had just brought Castlebar to an All Ireland club final that year. It's not as if it was an unbelievable left of field appointment.
I asked you - 'Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?' The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
In any other situation the Players would have been wrong. The process selection was flawed and left H &C with an uphill battle from the start. The Credibility of H & C was damaged from the start. Unfortunately for them they were an appointment of convenience by the County Board. And are the victims of this mess. Bringing this back into the public domain has reinforced how corrupt the whole mess was at the start (the selection process). They (H & C) should have bit their lip! Just like Horan Bit his lip after the Cormac Reilly Fiasco in Limerick. It hurt him bad but speaking his (Horans) mind would have got him no where.
Ok, so they are the victims of the mess. Finally we are getting somewhere.
The county board certainly have to take responsibility, as do the players.
Holmes and Connelly were treated disgracefully by the player, there is no absolving them of their actions simply because there were other parties at fault in this matter.
In all fairness, the whinging from Mayo about the Limerick venue in 2014 prior to the game was embarrassing, it wasn't really an issue yet they made a big issue out of it.
Why? When was the last time a football team was forced to play an AI semi final in a Province of their opponents outside of Croker? Would Kerry have been happy to play in Pearce Stadium in Galway? A pure disgrace! And the County board doings as well!
Anyway you are on a losing Battle.
It was embarrassing, it wasn't as if it was a home venue for either side.
Scheduling issues was the reason, the game was in Limerick as it was the fairest venue with the required minimum capacity.
If it was Tyrone and Mayo and the game was outside of Croke Park in a neutral venue, the most suitable venue would be Thurles which would be more favourable to Mayo - that's just the rub of the green - pick your lip up off the floor and get on with it.
Mayo could certainly have issues with the refereeing that day but despite all the perceived injustices and bad luck they may feel they had that day, their players still had it in their hands to win that game - that is why introspection should be the first port of call.
It was a neutral venue, it was more advantageous to Kerry but there was not a fairer realistic alternative.
All water under the bridge now! Horan bit his lip, made no comment with that game as his swan song. He laid low and returned to do his media work unscathed! H & C should have done the same. They look silly from this episode! There is always another challenge around the corner. And their comments may have pushed away attractive suitors in the future.
It won't have much more of an effect on their reputations than the rebellion did. The players' actions left it in tatters. For what exactly? A more ropey season the next year? The gamble by the players didn't even pay off and even if Rochford turns out to be a Christmas turkey they've already spent all the political capital even their supporters here can stomach.
In fact it's fair to say there's more support for H&C in the GAA community now than there was two weeks ago..
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 08:34:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 08:23:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:48:56 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:34:47 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
It doesn't impact on the rights or wrongs. You can certainly criticise the County Board for their role in the debacle but that has nothing to do with the Mayo team removing their management team - this is not and never should be in a playing squad's remit. What other viable choices were there in-house? McStay, we all know the story (true or not) with McHale. The 2013 minor management team?
Like it or lump it - Holmes and Connelly had a decent stock behind them. They managed Mayo to an All Ireland U21 title and Holmes had just brought Castlebar to an All Ireland club final that year. It's not as if it was an unbelievable left of field appointment.
I asked you - 'Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?' The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
In any other situation the Players would have been wrong. The process selection was flawed and left H &C with an uphill battle from the start. The Credibility of H & C was damaged from the start. Unfortunately for them they were an appointment of convenience by the County Board. And are the victims of this mess. Bringing this back into the public domain has reinforced how corrupt the whole mess was at the start (the selection process). They (H & C) should have bit their lip! Just like Horan Bit his lip after the Cormac Reilly Fiasco in Limerick. It hurt him bad but speaking his (Horans) mind would have got him no where.
Ok, so they are the victims of the mess. Finally we are getting somewhere.
The county board certainly have to take responsibility, as do the players.
Holmes and Connelly were treated disgracefully by the player, there is no absolving them of their actions simply because there were other parties at fault in this matter.
In all fairness, the whinging from Mayo about the Limerick venue in 2014 prior to the game was embarrassing, it wasn't really an issue yet they made a big issue out of it.
Why? When was the last time a football team was forced to play an AI semi final in a Province of their opponents outside of Croker? Would Kerry have been happy to play in Pearce Stadium in Galway? A pure disgrace! And the County board doings as well!
Anyway you are on a losing Battle.
It was embarrassing, it wasn't as if it was a home venue for either side.
Scheduling issues was the reason, the game was in Limerick as it was the fairest venue with the required minimum capacity.
If it was Tyrone and Mayo and the game was outside of Croke Park in a neutral venue, the most suitable venue would be Thurles which would be more favourable to Mayo - that's just the rub of the green - pick your lip up off the floor and get on with it.
Mayo could certainly have issues with the refereeing that day but despite all the perceived injustices and bad luck they may feel they had that day, their players still had it in their hands to win that game - that is why introspection should be the first port of call.
It was a neutral venue, it was more advantageous to Kerry but there was not a fairer realistic alternative.
All water under the bridge now! Horan bit his lip, made no comment with that game as his swan song. He laid low and returned to do his media work unscathed! H & C should have done the same. They look silly from this episode! There is always another challenge around the corner. And their comments may have pushed away attractive suitors in the future.
It won't have much more of an effect on their reputations than the rebellion did. The players' actions left it in tatters. For what exactly? A more ropey season the next year? The gamble by the players didn't even pay off and even if Rochford turns out to be a Christmas turkey they've already spent all the political capital even their supporters here can stomach.
In fact it's fair to say there's more support for H&C in the GAA community now than there was two weeks ago..
Do you think? I think there was more sympathy before the Breheny interview (or should that be notetaking - Cos he asked them no questions!). Most people I've talked to outside the county have thought the interview made H & C look silly and nothing more. It all perspective I suppose and the only perspective that matters is the one inside our county!
Most of the "GAA Community" are busy looking after their own affairs and couldn't give 2 proverbial about Rhubarbia and it's travails.
Some of us love to see them infighting of course ;D
I wonder who is the daftest poster on theach GAA BOARD.
Right now it's neck and neck between the Bomber and No Wides.
Two prize cases if everest there was one. :-\
From the bunker - so if I paraphrase your opinion, the appointment of h&c was a farce therefore everything the players did afterwards to get rid of them is fair game. I assume ruining the reputation of two of your own is ok too? Seems like a bullshit position on the issue to me.
Now I wonder why these brace players, with Mayos interest at heart didn't threaten strike immediately on their appointment? I wonder what was the issue that drive them over the edge?
Itchy you have experience of players getting rid of managers with the Liam Austin saga. Did you back the players in that instance. Also didnt the players vote to get rid of Val Andrews.
Quote from: REDCOL on December 26, 2016, 09:23:39 PM
Itchy you have experience of players getting rid of managers with the Liam Austin saga. Did you back the players in that instance. Also didnt the players vote to get rid of Val Andrews.
No I did not agree with what happened Liam Austin. I also do not believe players had a vote on Val Andrews, I think Val knew he had lost the dressing room but he had done some good before he left even if results were shocking (Cavan were lucky but to go to div4 for first time ever). Mind you that just whataboutery.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 08:23:23 PM
All water under the bridge now! Horan bit his lip, made no comment with that game as his swan song. He laid low and returned to do his media work unscathed! H & C should have done the same. They look silly from this episode! There is always another challenge around the corner. And their comments may have pushed away attractive suitors in the future.
James Horan made plenty of comment before the game in Limerick. He was very outspoken in his oppostion to its selection as a venue. Didn't he even take his own county board to task, for not objecting to it stronger? Yes, he got to lay low after he left his managerial role. But he got to leave on his own terms. He wasn't pushed out by a player heave. He also got 4 years to find his feet and show his worth as a manager. H&C were not afforded that luxury. You are comparing apples to oranges there.
Disagree that H&C look silly at all. Agree or disagree with what they said, the timing of it etc etc, but they were perfectly entitled to have their say. They deserve huge credit for waiting until Mayo's season was over, before they spoke out about what happened. Imagine the shit storm it would have stirred up, if they spoke out in the middle of the summer? They didn't and fair play to them for that.
The manner in which they were appointed was seriously dodge. But they are not the first intercounty management to be appointed because of internal politics. They won't be the last. Telling the players to just suck it up and get on with it, may seem harsh, given the massive commitment levels required to be an intercounty player these days. However, it's hard to feel sympathy for the situation the Mayo players found themsevles in, when they had already turned their noses up at the alternative mgt team, because one of them comitted the unforgivable crime of expressing an honest opinion about them in a newspaper column. Just how many bites at the cherry do they want, when it comes to picking their own manager?
There is right and wrong on all sides here. Absolving the players of any of the blame is rather strange. It is no skin off my nose if they are never subjected to the kind of rigourous self analysis, or the reigning in of certain egos, that H&C seem to think is necessary for Mayo to win an All Ireland. Other counties will just keep on winning All Irelands at their expense, until they do. Considering the 60 year drought, I find it very, very strange that there is unwillingness on the part of a lot of Mayo people, to even admit of that possibilty. Oh well...like I said, it's no skin off my nose.
Quote from: Beffs on December 26, 2016, 10:22:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 08:23:23 PM
All water under the bridge now! Horan bit his lip, made no comment with that game as his swan song. He laid low and returned to do his media work unscathed! H & C should have done the same. They look silly from this episode! There is always another challenge around the corner. And their comments may have pushed away attractive suitors in the future.
James Horan made plenty of comment before the game in Limerick. He was very outspoken in his oppostion to its selection as a venue. Didn't he even take his own county board to task, for not objecting to it stronger? Yes, he got to lay low after he left his managerial role. But he got to leave on his own terms. He wasn't pushed out by a player heave. He also got 4 years to find his feet and show his worth as a manager. H&C were not afforded that luxury. You are comparing apples to oranges there.
Disagree that H&C look silly at all. Agree or disagree with what they said, the timing of it etc etc, but they were perfectly entitled to have their say. They deserve huge credit for waiting until Mayo's season was over, before they spoke out about what happened. Imagine the shit storm it would have stirred up, if they spoke out in the middle of the summer? They didn't and fair play to them for that.
The manner in which they were appointed was seriously dodge. But they are not the first intercounty management to be appointed because of internal politics. They won't be the last. Telling the players to just suck it up and get on with it, may seem harsh, given the massive commitment levels required to be an intercounty player these days. However, it's hard to feel sympathy for the situation the Mayo players found themsevles in, when the players had already turned their noses up at the alternative because one of them comitted the unforgivable crime about writing something unflattering about them in a newspaper column. Just how many bites at the cherry do they want, when it comes to picking their own manager?
There is right and wrong on all sides here. Absolving the players of any of the blame is rather strange. It is no skin off my nose if they are never subjected to the kind of rigourous self analysis, or the reigning in of certain egos, that H&C seem to think is necessary for Mayo to win an All Ireland. Other counties will keep on winning All Irelands at their expense, until they do. Considering the 60 year drought, I find it very, very strange that there is unwillingness on the part of a lot of Mayo people, to even admit of that possibilty. Oh well...like I said, it's no skin off my nose.
Exactly. No skin off your nose. Mine neither if truth be told.
I admit I do have sympathy for H&C but I also believe this setting-the-record-straight move they made recently was done out of self interest and not in the interest of Mayo football as they claimed. They are proud men and hurting ,and of course rejection for not being up to it was hard to stomach. They were not going to take it lying down and Mayo not wining AI final this year seems to have galvanised them to have a cut. Which is a bit desperate really. H&C should be no more concerned now about Mayo winning an AI than I or any other Mayo supporter. Coming out with what they did was only dog-in-the-manger stuff. They wanted to win an AI with Mayo but now that's not going to happen ....... Their decision to go to Brehony was spiteful and mean-spirited. And Brehony of all people, considering how disliked that hack is among us. Not quite Souness and the Sun but you get the idea.
For what it's worth I don t think I don t think 'reigning in of certain egos' cost us AIs. The inference from H&C was that Rochford let those ego's had an influence. Of course it begs the question how H&C did not manage to address issues like ego and clique if they recognised issues like that that needed addressing.
There are reasons we lost another AI this year. The goalkeeping thing will always raise eyebrows but I ll stand by my take on it in the immediate aftermath of the game - that's still on record here. I thought at the time management just tried to be too clever for their own good and maybe overanalysed the whole kick-out thing. I still believe that to be the case even though I was awful annoyed by the change when I heard about it the morning of the replay. H&C appear as opportunists (they were to get the appointment), that have pounced on rumour and innuendo to try and rescue their perceived reputations.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:34:47 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 26, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 26, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 03:14:31 PM
Bomber,Save your self the trouble of posting any more.WE get it.You and your 2 buddies support the managers no matter what the circumstances are.'The saying there is no man so blind as the man who will not see' applies here
I support the managers on this BECAUSE of what the circumstances are, I am a pragmatist.
You and those who refuse to condemn the role of the players are the ones who are unconcerned with what happened, you are ostriches who will back the players no matter that there is no justification for what they did. Even a panel member who voted against the management has since came out and admitted in hindsight that they were out of order.
A panel member from the same club as Holmes! A panel member who had some idea that this article was coming.
Now IBD, Answer me this and answer me this only. Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?
Some of the lads came out of the woodwork only to act as the Breaffy-Ballintubber Defense Force, Bunker, but you've been around here to know how much of this sounds like the same shut-up-shop write-off-all-evidence craic the Tyronies do be at, right? You'd be laughing at the response if it was Roscommon or Galway supporters doing it if you're being honest. The players are far from blameless, everyone can see that. That ain't trolling, it's just a judgement based on the last two years of rumour, speculation and now concrete comments by those involved.
But the comments (on players) are not concrete. Most seem loaded, including the piece on Seamie O'Shea preferring Hennelly. There is no mention of any player trying to push his weight around as to picking players. There are a list of idle comments by text and e-mail, but little else.
Once again - I ask - Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)? The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
It doesn't impact on the rights or wrongs. You can certainly criticise the County Board for their role in the debacle but that has nothing to do with the Mayo team removing their management team - this is not and never should be in a playing squad's remit. What other viable choices were there in-house? McStay, we all know the story (true or not) with McHale. The 2013 minor management team?
Like it or lump it - Holmes and Connelly had a decent stock behind them. They managed Mayo to an All Ireland U21 title and Holmes had just brought Castlebar to an All Ireland club final that year. It's not as if it was an unbelievable left of field appointment.
I asked you - 'Do you think that H & C were given the Job(s) through the correct process(es)?' The answer to this leads to the rights and wrongs of the situation that ensued!
In any other situation the Players would have been wrong. The process selection was flawed and left H &C with an uphill battle from the start. The Credibility of H & C was damaged from the start. Unfortunately for them they were an appointment of convenience by the County Board. And are the victims of this mess. Bringing this back into the public domain has reinforced how corrupt the whole mess was at the start (the selection process). They (H & C) should have bit their lip! Just like Horan Bit his lip after the Cormac Reilly Fiasco in Limerick. It hurt him bad but speaking his (Horans) mind would have got him no where.
Ok, so they are the victims of the mess. Finally we are getting somewhere.
The county board certainly have to take responsibility, as do the players.
Holmes and Connelly were treated disgracefully by the player, there is no absolving them of their actions simply because there were other parties at fault in this matter.
In all fairness, the whinging from Mayo about the Limerick venue in 2014 prior to the game was embarrassing, it wasn't really an issue yet they made a big issue out of it.
Why? When was the last time a football team was forced to play an AI semi final in a Province of their opponents outside of Croker? Would Kerry have been happy to play in Pearce Stadium in Galway? A pure disgrace! And the County board doings as well!
Anyway you are on a losing Battle.
So what? Pity they don't play more games outside of Croke Park rather than dragging teams up to a almost half-empty stadium. And I'd consider making a team travelling from another country to play a provincial final at the home venue of their opponents a much worse case. You deserved Limerick for that alone.
Quote from: moysider on December 26, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Exactly. No skin off your nose. Mine neither if truth be told.
I admit I do have sympathy for H&C but I also believe this setting-the-record-straight move they made recently was done out of self interest and not in the interest of Mayo football as they claimed. They are proud men and hurting ,and of course rejection for not being up to it was hard to stomach. They were not going to take it lying down and Mayo not wining AI final this year seems to have galvanised them to have a cut. Which is a bit desperate really. H&C should be no more concerned now about Mayo winning an AI than I or any other Mayo supporter. Coming out with what they did was only dog-in-the-manger stuff. They wanted to win an AI with Mayo but now that's not going to happen ....... Their decision to go to Brehony was spiteful and mean-spirited. And Brehony of all people, considering how disliked that hack is among us. Not quite Souness and the Sun but you get the idea.
For what it's worth I don t think I don t think 'reigning in of certain egos' cost us AIs. The inference from H&C was that Rochford let those ego's had an influence. Of course it begs the question how H&C did not manage to address issues like ego and clique if they recognised issues like that that needed addressing.
Not up to it? They did as well - or better - than the managers that went before them, in their first year in charge. They won their province comfortably. They took the eventual All Ireland champions to a semi final replay. Not even James Horan did that, in his first year in charge.
Ok, so Roachford went one better this year, in getting to the AI final. But he needed a truck load of luck to get there. He got 3 home qualifiers. Aidan O'Shea won probably the softest penalty, in the entire history of the GAA. Mayo drew Tipp in the semi's. Any one of those three things didn't happen & the AI final would have been much different. H&C didn't need any of that kind of luck.
I agree that their interview was self serving. At the end of the day, all interviews are, even when they are dressed up with "it's all about the team" humility. I can't blame them for looking out for themselves and, doing what it took to salvage their reputations. Did the Mayo players care about their reputations, when they were putting the story out there about the play book getting left behind in the hotel room? When that little nugget of information was leaked, everyone was thinking - what a pair of eegits ! Then it turns out it was left behind by one of the players. When that kind of tit for tat shite is going on, it's all a bit unsavoury. But if the players started it and they are caught out telling pork pies, they have only themselves to blame, if it's every man for himself now.
As for the egos. Who knows what that even entails. But let me ask this. If Mayos superstar talisman, was two footed, could actually kick snow off a roap when it matters, or wasn't obviously knackered tired by the 50th minute of the really big games, would Mayo have a couple of All Ireland titles by now? The goal he set up for Lee Keegan in the final replay, was the first wow moment I have seen from O'Shea in an All Ireland semi final or final. He has played in what....9 or 10 of them? Does his ego get in the way of being coached or managed in ways, that may make him think differently about how and what he contributes in the biggest of games? Only he knows the answer to that, I suppose.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 26, 2016, 08:48:55 PM
Most of the "GAA Community" are busy looking after their own affairs and couldn't give 2 proverbial about Rhubarbia and it's travails.
Some of us love to see them infighting of course ;D
I wonder who is the daftest poster on theach GAA BOARD.
Right now it's neck and neck between the Bomber and No Wides.
Two prize cases if everest there was one. :-\
G'man Ross; great minds think alike and all that!
Mind you I think you could add a third name to your list.
No prize for guessing who either.
This has gone well past the hundred pager stage and will continue to climb as loong as the three amigos can't find somethinh better to do and the compassionate Mayo fans keep on trying to bate a bit of sense into their thick skulls. Mind you, there might only be one skull in question as I don't think 3 such specimens could exist at the same time; at least not on this board. anyway..
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 27, 2016, 01:13:08 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 26, 2016, 08:48:55 PM
Most of the "GAA Community" are busy looking after their own affairs and couldn't give 2 proverbial about Rhubarbia and it's travails.
Some of us love to see them infighting of course ;D
I wonder who is the daftest poster on theach GAA BOARD.
Right now it's neck and neck between the Bomber and No Wides.
Two prize cases if everest there was one. :-\
G'man Ross; great minds think alike and all that!
Mind you I think you could add a third name to your list.
No prize for guessing who either.
This has gone well past the hundred pager stage and will continue to climb as loong as the three amigos can't find somethinh better to do and the compassionate Mayo fans keep on trying to bate a bit of sense into their thick skulls. Mind you, there might only be one skull in question as I don't think 3 such specimens could exist at the same time; at least not on this board. anyway..
All is well west of Ballagh Lar. Don't change a thing. Please.
Quote from: Beffs on December 27, 2016, 12:33:41 AM
Quote from: moysider on December 26, 2016, 11:14:36 PM
Exactly. No skin off your nose. Mine neither if truth be told.
I admit I do have sympathy for H&C but I also believe this setting-the-record-straight move they made recently was done out of self interest and not in the interest of Mayo football as they claimed. They are proud men and hurting ,and of course rejection for not being up to it was hard to stomach. They were not going to take it lying down and Mayo not wining AI final this year seems to have galvanised them to have a cut. Which is a bit desperate really. H&C should be no more concerned now about Mayo winning an AI than I or any other Mayo supporter. Coming out with what they did was only dog-in-the-manger stuff. They wanted to win an AI with Mayo but now that's not going to happen ....... Their decision to go to Brehony was spiteful and mean-spirited. And Brehony of all people, considering how disliked that hack is among us. Not quite Souness and the Sun but you get the idea.
For what it's worth I don t think I don t think 'reigning in of certain egos' cost us AIs. The inference from H&C was that Rochford let those ego's had an influence. Of course it begs the question how H&C did not manage to address issues like ego and clique if they recognised issues like that that needed addressing.
Not up to it? They did as well - or better - than the managers that went before them, in their first year in charge. They won their province comfortably. They took the eventual All Ireland champions to a semi final replay. Not even James Horan did that, in his first year in charge.
Ok, so Roachford went one better this year, in getting to the AI final. But he needed a truck load of luck to get there. He got 3 home qualifiers. Aidan O'Shea won probably the softest penalty, in the entire history of the GAA. Mayo drew Tipp in the semi's. Any one of those three things didn't happen & the AI final would have been much different. H&C didn't need any of that kind of luck.
I agree that their interview was self serving. At the end of the day, all interviews are, even when they are dressed up with "it's all about the team" humility. I can't blame them for looking out for themselves and, doing what it took to salvage their reputations. Did the Mayo players care about their reputations, when they were putting the story out there about the play book getting left behind in the hotel room? When that little nugget of information was leaked, everyone was thinking - what a pair of eegits ! Then it turns out it was left behind by one of the players. When that kind of tit for tat shite is going on, it's all a bit unsavoury. But if the players started it and they are caught out telling pork pies, they have only themselves to blame, if it's every man for himself now.
As for the egos. Who knows what that even entails. But let me ask this. If Mayos superstar talisman, was two footed, could actually kick snow off a roap when it matters, or wasn't obviously knackered tired by the 50th minute of the really big games, would Mayo have a couple of All Ireland titles by now? The goal he set up for Lee Keegan in the final replay, was the first wow moment I have seen from O'Shea in an All Ireland semi final or final. He has played in what....9 or 10 of them? Does his ego get in the way of being coached or managed in ways, that may make him think differently about how and what he contributes in the biggest of games? Only he knows the answer to that, I suppose.
Fair enough, there's a lot of sense in that. Nobody from Mayo, IIRC, ever said it was a straightforward affair. But bear in mind that Mayo posters were saying back when the duo got the gig, that there were goi9ng to be problems. I don't think anyone knows the full facts, but, while I feel sympathy for H&C, it would be a travesty of justice to accept their statement to Brehony as being 100% accurate in every detail.
When news of the heave broke, all sorts of rumours were flying about but it did emerge that the players were furious that the analysis notes were left being in the team's hotel. Now the deposed pair claims it was one of the players who left them behind.
That makes no sense at all.
Why should the players blame the managers if it was one of their own who was responsible for the c**k-up? To say the players were caught telling pork pies is to accept hook, line and sinker the story put out by one side who knew quite well that neither the players nor the county board were going to comment publicly on any aspect of the affair.
Even if every other assertion by H&C were to be proved correct, the fact remains that claiming a player left confidential notes where they were going to be found makes no sense whatever.
What the cognoscenti on this board seem to be unaware of is that the county board were intent on cutting back expenses that had been gained by Horan. There was a lot of player unrest over that and I can't say for definite but I've been told that H&C did not push very hard to hold on to what had been knocked out of the board by Horan.
The team made a fine start to the league that year, winning their first 4 games in style. Then there was a complete implosion when they took on Dublin in Castlebar. Here they lost by 14 points. All was definitely not well in the Mayo camp and to add to the rumours, James Horan made a plea in a newspaper column to Donie Buckley to step in and bring some sort of order to proceedings in the camp.
Obviously, the craic had started at a very early stage and this was something Mayo posters had anticipated and forecast on this board. What about Mayo getting to an AI semi under the pair and putting up one helluva fight?
Remember Mickey Moran and Beefer Morrison in 2006? Here, the players lost confidence in the pair during the Connacht Final and the senior and began calling the shots on the field so that Mickey and his buddy were reduced to naimg the team and making substitutions?
Anyone who wants to check this out can go to hell or to Keith Duggan's excellent book, "The House of Pain: Through the Rooms of Mayo Football."
Same happened in 2015.
Amway, as you said yourself, it's no skin off my nose either.
It's past history in Mayo at any rate and it's business as usual from here on for CB, players and the manager.
It could be the making of Aidan o se's mayo
Watched the AI replay on TG4 . Mayo will have to find a couple of pacy forwards who can score.
Welcome to Planet Earth, Ashman.
Hope you enjoy your stay.
Quote from: ashman on December 27, 2016, 04:26:36 PM
Watched the AI replay on TG4 . Mayo will have to find a couple of pacy forwards who can score.
Come on Ashman. That is not the reason we lost the all ireland.Getting rid of H and C ,massive egos in the squad and players picking the team would be the main ones.
Quote from: maigheo on December 27, 2016, 05:55:52 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 27, 2016, 04:26:36 PM
Watched the AI replay on TG4 . Mayo will have to find a couple of pacy forwards who can score.
Come on Ashman. That is not the reason we lost the all ireland.Getting rid of H and C ,massive egos in the squad and players picking the team would be the main ones.
It a combination of all of the above and the clear affinity for disaster in the final that no Mayo team has yet faced up to effectively. But I'm sure pointing out that makes you a troll, right?
Has that ex-Mayo player who said Big Aido & COC were hanging around outside the Dublin dressing room 'up-scuttling' Dublin players had his say yet?
Quote from: Syferus on December 27, 2016, 06:02:49 PM
Quote from: maigheo on December 27, 2016, 05:55:52 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 27, 2016, 04:26:36 PM
Watched the AI replay on TG4 . Mayo will have to find a couple of pacy forwards who can score.
Come on Ashman. That is not the reason we lost the all ireland.Getting rid of H and C ,massive egos in the squad and players picking the team would be the main ones.
It a combination of all of the above and the clear affinity for disaster in the final that no Mayo team has yet faced up to effectively. But I'm sure pointing out that makes you a troll, right?
no , in your case it makes you wrong
Quote from: heffo on December 27, 2016, 08:55:11 PM
Has that ex-Mayo player who said Big Aido & COC were hanging around outside the Dublin dressing room 'up-scuttling' Dublin players had his say yet?
Have not heard anything from him yet.Proably still shook up from that incident. :) The only ex player that the Sindo were able to get to support H and C was a player who has lived out side the county for 30 years.Says it all really
Some interesting views when H&C were appointed:
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 10:01:57 AM
Pat Holmes has ruled himself out according to the Mayo news. hasnt the time apparently.
one horse race so, although our chairman has said it'll be the same process as the last time, which was:
subcommitee setup, was leaning towards Tommy Lyons as our chairman thought he was the man, lots of banging on tables and eventually Horan was reluctantly given the job.
Yes, indeed, it'll be John Maughan with Mickey Moran as water carrier, all our 00 nightmares rolled into one.
Quote from: bucko on September 03, 2014, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 12:33:47 PM
Sure he couldnt possibly take offence from that :)
Why do you say that though? I know little about the man personally, but his record is good.
4 U-21 Connacht Titles
1 U-21 All Ireland Title
1 Senior NFL Title
1 Senior Club Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners up
1 think K Mac is:
1 Senior Club All Ireland (plus 1 Senior Club Connacht Title)
1 U-21 Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners Up
Based on CVs Holmes appears the more impressive, but its immaterial now, just wondering why he is not rated
Solely to do with his spell in charge of the seniors unfortunately. That period covered three Connacht championships with no silverware, a first round exit to Sligo in the 2000 Connacht C'ship (no qualifiers then) and a first round qualifier exit to Westmeath in 01 (I think). His best C'ship record was 02 when they got to the all Ireland quarter final v Cork and lost, to my memory the most boring game of football I'd ever watched. While he won the league in 01, that league campaign was tainted due to Tyrone having to withdraw due to the foot and mouth crisis when they were strong favourites to win the league. Unfortunately for Pat, he took the job having little management experience and throughout that period, other than the league, achieved very little despite having, on paper anyway a pretty good squad (Burke, Cahill, the 2 Connellys, Nallen, Ruane, Brady, Colm Mc, Ciaran Mc, the 2 Mortimers etc). That run is probably why not too many people want to see him back, despite what he's achieved since.
Quote from: muppet on September 20, 2014, 11:06:00 PM
I am not so confident.
This is a desperately safe selection for the CB. We need something extra/special/different/inspired <delete as appropriate> to get over the line from where James and his team have got us to. Even treading water will be an achievement.
I just don't see where we get the last few inches that we need in this appointment.
Pat had a go before and even seemed to rule himself out. He has done well recently with the Mitchels but he had his shot. If Noel needed Pat on board to add gravitas to his application, then we are in bother. If Noel is the difference I mentioned above, then why not appoint him in his own right, as we did James Horan?
Quote from: ballinaman on September 21, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 21, 2014, 12:52:48 AM
What will Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly bring to the table that McStay couldn't?
They'll kneel when required.
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2016, 10:28:06 PM
Some interesting views when H&C were appointed:
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 10:01:57 AM
Pat Holmes has ruled himself out according to the Mayo news. hasnt the time apparently.
one horse race so, although our chairman has said it'll be the same process as the last time, which was:
subcommitee setup, was leaning towards Tommy Lyons as our chairman thought he was the man, lots of banging on tables and eventually Horan was reluctantly given the job.
Yes, indeed, it'll be John Maughan with Mickey Moran as water carrier, all our 00 nightmares rolled into one.
Quote from: bucko on September 03, 2014, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 12:33:47 PM
Sure he couldnt possibly take offence from that :)
Why do you say that though? I know little about the man personally, but his record is good.
4 U-21 Connacht Titles
1 U-21 All Ireland Title
1 Senior NFL Title
1 Senior Club Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners up
1 think K Mac is:
1 Senior Club All Ireland (plus 1 Senior Club Connacht Title)
1 U-21 Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners Up
Based on CVs Holmes appears the more impressive, but its immaterial now, just wondering why he is not rated
Solely to do with his spell in charge of the seniors unfortunately. That period covered three Connacht championships with no silverware, a first round exit to Sligo in the 2000 Connacht C'ship (no qualifiers then) and a first round qualifier exit to Westmeath in 01 (I think). His best C'ship record was 02 when they got to the all Ireland quarter final v Cork and lost, to my memory the most boring game of football I'd ever watched. While he won the league in 01, that league campaign was tainted due to Tyrone having to withdraw due to the foot and mouth crisis when they were strong favourites to win the league. Unfortunately for Pat, he took the job having little management experience and throughout that period, other than the league, achieved very little despite having, on paper anyway a pretty good squad (Burke, Cahill, the 2 Connellys, Nallen, Ruane, Brady, Colm Mc, Ciaran Mc, the 2 Mortimers etc). That run is probably why not too many people want to see him back, despite what he's achieved since.
Quote from: muppet on September 20, 2014, 11:06:00 PM
I am not so confident.
This is a desperately safe selection for the CB. We need something extra/special/different/inspired <delete as appropriate> to get over the line from where James and his team have got us to. Even treading water will be an achievement.
I just don't see where we get the last few inches that we need in this appointment.
Pat had a go before and even seemed to rule himself out. He has done well recently with the Mitchels but he had his shot. If Noel needed Pat on board to add gravitas to his application, then we are in bother. If Noel is the difference I mentioned above, then why not appoint him in his own right, as we did James Horan?
Quote from: ballinaman on September 21, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 21, 2014, 12:52:48 AM
What will Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly bring to the table that McStay couldn't?
They'll kneel when required.
And so it came to pass....
Where were they when the CB went on a cost-cutting spree, attempting to pare back every concession that Horan prised out of them?
You just can't kiss your brother's arse and expect your team to do the same to you.
Did James Horan say anything about the situation? He must have been disappointed with who was chosen to succeed him. The team is like a race horse that needs the right attention.
Quote from: seafoid on December 28, 2016, 06:41:58 AM
Did James Horan say anything about the situation? He must have been disappointed with who was chosen to succeed him. The team is like a race horse that needs the right attention.
Here you are, my good man; taken from one of my recent posts:
The team made a fine start to the league that year, winning their first 4 games in style. Then there was a complete implosion when they took on Dublin in Castlebar. Here they lost by 14 points. All was definitely not well in the Mayo camp and to add to the rumours, James Horan made a plea in a newspaper column (Mayo Advertiser) to Donie Buckley to step in and bring some sort of order to proceedings in the camp.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 28, 2016, 09:06:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 28, 2016, 06:41:58 AM
Did James Horan say anything about the situation? He must have been disappointed with who was chosen to succeed him. The team is like a race horse that needs the right attention.
Here you are, my good man; taken from one of my recent posts:
The team made a fine start to the league that year, winning their first 4 games in style. Then there was a complete implosion when they took on Dublin in Castlebar. Here they lost by 14 points. All was definitely not well in the Mayo camp and to add to the rumours, James Horan made a plea in a newspaper column (Mayo Advertiser) to Donie Buckley to step in and bring some sort of order to proceedings in the camp.
When the outgoing manager sticks in the oar a few weeks into the new managers season, is that part of the high performance environment?
The most encouraging aspect to all this non story shite is the huge interest Dublin supporters have in all things Mayo.
Hated, adored but never ignored.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 27, 2016, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2016, 10:28:06 PM
Some interesting views when H&C were appointed:
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 10:01:57 AM
Pat Holmes has ruled himself out according to the Mayo news. hasnt the time apparently.
one horse race so, although our chairman has said it'll be the same process as the last time, which was:
subcommitee setup, was leaning towards Tommy Lyons as our chairman thought he was the man, lots of banging on tables and eventually Horan was reluctantly given the job.
Yes, indeed, it'll be John Maughan with Mickey Moran as water carrier, all our 00 nightmares rolled into one.
Quote from: bucko on September 03, 2014, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 12:33:47 PM
Sure he couldnt possibly take offence from that :)
Why do you say that though? I know little about the man personally, but his record is good.
4 U-21 Connacht Titles
1 U-21 All Ireland Title
1 Senior NFL Title
1 Senior Club Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners up
1 think K Mac is:
1 Senior Club All Ireland (plus 1 Senior Club Connacht Title)
1 U-21 Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners Up
Based on CVs Holmes appears the more impressive, but its immaterial now, just wondering why he is not rated
Solely to do with his spell in charge of the seniors unfortunately. That period covered three Connacht championships with no silverware, a first round exit to Sligo in the 2000 Connacht C'ship (no qualifiers then) and a first round qualifier exit to Westmeath in 01 (I think). His best C'ship record was 02 when they got to the all Ireland quarter final v Cork and lost, to my memory the most boring game of football I'd ever watched. While he won the league in 01, that league campaign was tainted due to Tyrone having to withdraw due to the foot and mouth crisis when they were strong favourites to win the league. Unfortunately for Pat, he took the job having little management experience and throughout that period, other than the league, achieved very little despite having, on paper anyway a pretty good squad (Burke, Cahill, the 2 Connellys, Nallen, Ruane, Brady, Colm Mc, Ciaran Mc, the 2 Mortimers etc). That run is probably why not too many people want to see him back, despite what he's achieved since.
Quote from: muppet on September 20, 2014, 11:06:00 PM
I am not so confident.
This is a desperately safe selection for the CB. We need something extra/special/different/inspired <delete as appropriate> to get over the line from where James and his team have got us to. Even treading water will be an achievement.
I just don't see where we get the last few inches that we need in this appointment.
Pat had a go before and even seemed to rule himself out. He has done well recently with the Mitchels but he had his shot. If Noel needed Pat on board to add gravitas to his application, then we are in bother. If Noel is the difference I mentioned above, then why not appoint him in his own right, as we did James Horan?
Quote from: ballinaman on September 21, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 21, 2014, 12:52:48 AM
What will Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly bring to the table that McStay couldn't?
They'll kneel when required.
And so it came to pass....
Where were they when the CB went on a cost-cutting spree, attempting to pare back every concession that Horan prised out of them?
You just can't kiss your brother's arse and expect your team to do the same to you.
So it's a money issue?
Aren't the Mayo CB in big debt, surely it's a reasonable expectation that they look to curb back spending.
Quote from: heffo on December 28, 2016, 09:10:14 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 28, 2016, 09:06:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 28, 2016, 06:41:58 AM
Did James Horan say anything about the situation? He must have been disappointed with who was chosen to succeed him. The team is like a race horse that needs the right attention.
Here you are, my good man; taken from one of my recent posts:
The team made a fine start to the league that year, winning their first 4 games in style. Then there was a complete implosion when they took on Dublin in Castlebar. Here they lost by 14 points. All was definitely not well in the Mayo camp and to add to the rumours, James Horan made a plea in a newspaper column (Mayo Advertiser) to Donie Buckley to step in and bring some sort of order to proceedings in the camp.
When the outgoing manager sticks in the oar a few weeks into the new managers season, is that part of the high performance environment?
Can't understand why either. It was obvious for sometime that the setup had gone pear-shaped but why James Horan decided to address the matter publicly is a mystery- tome at ay rate.
I mean he could have picked up the phone and rang Donie a bother.
But I took it to mean things were very much out of line with Team Mayo.
Before the usual suspects start caterwauling about Mayo's woes once more, the fact that Horan, who had managed the team for 4 very stressed out, high-performance seasons without any hint of wholesale mutiny, is hugely significant.
H&C had a large core of the players who soldiered under Horan for those four years and within a matter of months, there were ructions in the camp.
Go figure that one out.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 10:54:05 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 27, 2016, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2016, 10:28:06 PM
Some interesting views when H&C were appointed:
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 10:01:57 AM
Pat Holmes has ruled himself out according to the Mayo news. hasnt the time apparently.
one horse race so, although our chairman has said it'll be the same process as the last time, which was:
subcommitee setup, was leaning towards Tommy Lyons as our chairman thought he was the man, lots of banging on tables and eventually Horan was reluctantly given the job.
Yes, indeed, it'll be John Maughan with Mickey Moran as water carrier, all our 00 nightmares rolled into
one.
Quote from: bucko on September 03, 2014, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 12:33:47 PM
Sure he couldnt possibly take offence from that :)
Why do you say that though? I know little about the man personally, but his record is good.
4 U-21 Connacht Titles
1 U-21 All Ireland Title
1 Senior NFL Title
1 Senior Club Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners up
1 think K Mac is:
1 Senior Club All Ireland (plus 1 Senior Club Connacht Title)
1 U-21 Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners Up
Based on CVs Holmes appears the more impressive, but its immaterial now, just wondering why he is not rated
Solely to do with his spell in charge of the seniors unfortunately. That period covered three Connacht championships with no silverware, a first round exit to Sligo in the 2000 Connacht C'ship (no qualifiers then) and a first round qualifier exit to Westmeath in 01 (I think). His best C'ship record was 02 when they got to the all Ireland quarter final v Cork and lost, to my memory the most boring game of football I'd ever watched. While he won the league in 01, that league campaign was tainted due to Tyrone having to withdraw due to the foot and mouth crisis when they were strong favourites to win the league. Unfortunately for Pat, he took the job having little management experience and throughout that period, other than the league, achieved very little despite having, on paper anyway a pretty good squad (Burke, Cahill, the 2 Connellys, Nallen, Ruane, Brady, Colm Mc, Ciaran Mc, the 2 Mortimers etc). That run is probably why not too many people want to see him back, despite what he's achieved since.
Quote from: muppet on September 20, 2014, 11:06:00 PM
I am not so confident.
This is a desperately safe selection for the CB. We need something extra/special/different/inspired <delete as appropriate> to get over the line from where James and his team have got us to. Even treading water will be an achievement.
I just don't see where we get the last few inches that we need in this appointment.
Pat had a go before and even seemed to rule himself out. He has done well recently with the Mitchels but he had his shot. If Noel needed Pat on board to add gravitas to his application, then we are in bother. If Noel is the difference I mentioned above, then why not appoint him in his own right, as we did James Horan?
Quote from: ballinaman on September 21, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 21, 2014, 12:52:48 AM
What will Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly bring to the table that McStay couldn't?
They'll kneel when required.
And so it came to pass....
Where were they when the CB went on a cost-cutting spree, attempting to pare back every concession that Horan prised out of them?
You just can't kiss your brother's arse and expect your team to do the same to you.
So it's a money issue?
Aren't the Mayo CB in big debt, surely it's a reasonable expectation that they look to curb back spending.
Look sonny, when you get past puberty, you might see things in a different light.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 28, 2016, 11:00:43 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 28, 2016, 09:10:14 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 28, 2016, 09:06:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 28, 2016, 06:41:58 AM
Did James Horan say anything about the situation? He must have been disappointed with who was chosen to succeed him. The team is like a race horse that needs the right attention.
Here you are, my good man; taken from one of my recent posts:
The team made a fine start to the league that year, winning their first 4 games in style. Then there was a complete implosion when they took on Dublin in Castlebar. Here they lost by 14 points. All was definitely not well in the Mayo camp and to add to the rumours, James Horan made a plea in a newspaper column (Mayo Advertiser) to Donie Buckley to step in and bring some sort of order to proceedings in the camp.
When the outgoing manager sticks in the oar a few weeks into the new managers season, is that part of the high performance environment?
Can't understand why either. It was obvious for sometime that the setup had gone pear-shaped but why James Horan decided to address the matter publicly is a mystery- tome at ay rate.
I mean he could have picked up the phone and rang Donie a bother.
But I took it to mean things were very much out of line with Team Mayo.
Before the usual suspects start caterwauling about Mayo's woes once more, the fact that Horan, who had managed the team for 4 very stressed out, high-performance seasons without any hint of wholesale mutiny, is hugely significant.
H&C had a large core of the players who soldiered under Horan for those four years and within a matter of months, there were ructions in the camp.
Go figure that one out.
Differing management styles.
Players were loyal to Horan because he clearly indulged their egos and made them feel valued.
The other management team.
It's a bit like Revie v Clough at Leeds all those years back, the players effectively got Clough sacked because there was a personality clash and certain key players had their influence curbed. The difference was Clough was sacked by the club on the basis of results - not because the players told the club too - the results justified it.
The Mayo players need to have a long hard look at themselves, Holmes and Connelly brought a different approach on board and certain players look to have felt slighted and aggrieved at some of things that were said and the changes they brought on board. These changes and criticisms did not seem to impact on the one thing that truly matters - performances and results - this is simply indisputable. They did as good or as bad as any previous management side did with this team.
So it boils down to the reasons of the coup. It clearly wasn't football reasons, Mayo performed and looked as well prepared as any other season so I'm not buying the reasons being proffered in this regard.
It comes down to personal grievances between how some players felt they were treated by management and to me that shows that Mayo have a big problem with a few players and their meddling and undermining in team affairs. It was a catch 22 position that they were put it, the Mayo posters here seems to think it perfectly ok that they were fed to the dogs simply because they were caught between an internal squabble between the county board and a group of Mayo players. The big failing of Holmes and Connelly seemingly was to accept a job that there may not have been the most fair and transparent procedure to.
But I've asked this and still not got an answer - going in-house who were more qualified candidates?
McStay? Apparently the Mayo players had a big issue with a member of his backroom team who would be coming on board which paid to that. In any case his debut season of Championship football was embarrassing and his team look clueless and disorganised so possibly a bullet dodged.
The 2013 Minor Management team?
Rochford was not a big name by then?
So who were the Mayo posters so outraged the CB didn't appoint?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 28, 2016, 11:02:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 10:54:05 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 27, 2016, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 27, 2016, 10:28:06 PM
Some interesting views when H&C were appointed:
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 10:01:57 AM
Pat Holmes has ruled himself out according to the Mayo news. hasnt the time apparently.
one horse race so, although our chairman has said it'll be the same process as the last time, which was:
subcommitee setup, was leaning towards Tommy Lyons as our chairman thought he was the man, lots of banging on tables and eventually Horan was reluctantly given the job.
Yes, indeed, it'll be John Maughan with Mickey Moran as water carrier, all our 00 nightmares rolled into
one.
Quote from: bucko on September 03, 2014, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: Msgr. Horan on September 03, 2014, 12:33:47 PM
Sure he couldnt possibly take offence from that :)
Why do you say that though? I know little about the man personally, but his record is good.
4 U-21 Connacht Titles
1 U-21 All Ireland Title
1 Senior NFL Title
1 Senior Club Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners up
1 think K Mac is:
1 Senior Club All Ireland (plus 1 Senior Club Connacht Title)
1 U-21 Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners Up
Based on CVs Holmes appears the more impressive, but its immaterial now, just wondering why he is not rated
Solely to do with his spell in charge of the seniors unfortunately. That period covered three Connacht championships with no silverware, a first round exit to Sligo in the 2000 Connacht C'ship (no qualifiers then) and a first round qualifier exit to Westmeath in 01 (I think). His best C'ship record was 02 when they got to the all Ireland quarter final v Cork and lost, to my memory the most boring game of football I'd ever watched. While he won the league in 01, that league campaign was tainted due to Tyrone having to withdraw due to the foot and mouth crisis when they were strong favourites to win the league. Unfortunately for Pat, he took the job having little management experience and throughout that period, other than the league, achieved very little despite having, on paper anyway a pretty good squad (Burke, Cahill, the 2 Connellys, Nallen, Ruane, Brady, Colm Mc, Ciaran Mc, the 2 Mortimers etc). That run is probably why not too many people want to see him back, despite what he's achieved since.
Quote from: muppet on September 20, 2014, 11:06:00 PM
I am not so confident.
This is a desperately safe selection for the CB. We need something extra/special/different/inspired <delete as appropriate> to get over the line from where James and his team have got us to. Even treading water will be an achievement.
I just don't see where we get the last few inches that we need in this appointment.
Pat had a go before and even seemed to rule himself out. He has done well recently with the Mitchels but he had his shot. If Noel needed Pat on board to add gravitas to his application, then we are in bother. If Noel is the difference I mentioned above, then why not appoint him in his own right, as we did James Horan?
Quote from: ballinaman on September 21, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 21, 2014, 12:52:48 AM
What will Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly bring to the table that McStay couldn't?
They'll kneel when required.
And so it came to pass....
Where were they when the CB went on a cost-cutting spree, attempting to pare back every concession that Horan prised out of them?
You just can't kiss your brother's arse and expect your team to do the same to you.
So it's a money issue?
Aren't the Mayo CB in big debt, surely it's a reasonable expectation that they look to curb back spending.
Look sonny, when you get past puberty, you might see things in a different light.
Ironic comment given you are the one with the doe-eyed defence of the O'Sheas.
Can this thread be closed.Bomber is going to continue his ramblings until some Mayo poster agrees with him which is not going to happen.
Quote from: maigheo on December 28, 2016, 11:38:08 AM
Can this thread be closed.Bomber is going to continue raising objective questions until some Mayo poster is willing to have an open mind and look at the information available from both sides.
That's more accurate.
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason we couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Bomber is like a dog and subjects such as Mayo and rugby are like table legs.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough
Free State media. Actually take the first two words out of that and you have Mayo's excuse for this year.
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough
We didn't take our chances, I thought there were instances when we were bullied by a more physical side. We made poor decisions in the final third. I think management deserved some criticism regarding persisting with having players hitting frees from outside their range and starting McShane who is still a little raw.
A bit like Kerry last year, we had the chances, our gameplan worked in effect but the players didn't profit on them and as such, introspection from the players is where the solution lies, if we're back again next year repeating the same mistakes then it's a massive worry. This Mayo team is on their 7th campaign this coming season as opposed to the the 3rd for Tyrone. Time is running out for Mayo.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 07:50:20 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough
We didn't take our chances, I thought there were instances when we were bullied by a more physical side. We made poor decisions in the final third. I think management deserved some criticism regarding persisting with having players hitting frees from outside their range and starting McShane who is still a little raw.
A bit like Kerry last year, we had the chances, our gameplan worked in effect but the players didn't profit on them and as such, introspection from the players is where the solution lies, if we're back again next year repeating the same mistakes then it's a massive worry. This Mayo team is on their 7th campaign this coming season as opposed to the the 3rd for Tyrone. Time is running out for Mayo.
Remember Mayo Playing Tyrone in 2013 in a semi final! That's year 5 by my reckoning this coming season. So your progress has been slow, if there has been progress? You still rely on a lot of Sean Cavanagh for inspiration and time is running on for him also.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2016, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 07:50:20 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough
We didn't take our chances, I thought there were instances when we were bullied by a more physical side. We made poor decisions in the final third. I think management deserved some criticism regarding persisting with having players hitting frees from outside their range and starting McShane who is still a little raw.
A bit like Kerry last year, we had the chances, our gameplan worked in effect but the players didn't profit on them and as such, introspection from the players is where the solution lies, if we're back again next year repeating the same mistakes then it's a massive worry. This Mayo team is on their 7th campaign this coming season as opposed to the the 3rd for Tyrone. Time is running out for Mayo.
Remember Mayo Playing Tyrone in 2013 in a semi final! That's year 5 by my reckoning this coming season. So your progress has been slow, if there has been progress? You still rely on a lot of Sean Cavanagh for inspiration and time is running on for him also.
Massive change in the Tyrone side in that time, of the 20 players involved that day:
McConnell, Gormley, Carlin, O'Neill have all retired.
McKenna, McGinley, Mark Donnelly, Aidan Cassidy and Kyle Coney are no longer on the panel.
It's also quite probable that neither Joe McMahon and Conor Clarke will make the Championship squad this year.
On the other hand, 10 of the Mayo starting XV that played us in 2013 started this year's quarter final against us - only Cavanagh x2, McCarron Harte, Mattie Donnelly and McAliskey started the 2016 game for us.
This Mayo side has been around the block for a good 6 years now, bar Diarmuid O'Connor, Durcan, Harrison and Coen it seems to be more or less the same side as 2011. You have a lot of that side hitting their 30s now - Clarke, Higgins, Cafferkey, Boyle, Moran x2, Dillon, Barrett, S O'Shea are in and around that age group.
Tyrone really only have the McMahons, Cavanaghs and McCarron in that age bracket. Joe McMahon has only played about 100 minutes of Championship football in the last 3 seasons too.
In comparison, this Tyrone side still have it all to prove, but the age profile is a good bit younger than that of Mayo who have been on the road for quite a while.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 08:17:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2016, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 07:50:20 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough
We didn't take our chances, I thought there were instances when we were bullied by a more physical side. We made poor decisions in the final third. I think management deserved some criticism regarding persisting with having players hitting frees from outside their range and starting McShane who is still a little raw.
A bit like Kerry last year, we had the chances, our gameplan worked in effect but the players didn't profit on them and as such, introspection from the players is where the solution lies, if we're back again next year repeating the same mistakes then it's a massive worry. This Mayo team is on their 7th campaign this coming season as opposed to the the 3rd for Tyrone. Time is running out for Mayo.
Remember Mayo Playing Tyrone in 2013 in a semi final! That's year 5 by my reckoning this coming season. So your progress has been slow, if there has been progress? You still rely on a lot of Sean Cavanagh for inspiration and time is running on for him also.
Massive change in the Tyrone side in that time, of the 20 players involved that day:
McConnell, Gormley, Carlin, O'Neill have all retired.
McKenna, McGinley, Mark Donnelly, Aidan Cassidy and Kyle Coney are no longer on the panel.
It's also quite probable that neither Joe McMahon and Conor Clarke will make the Championship squad this year.
On the other hand, 10 of the Mayo starting XV that played us in 2013 started this year's quarter final against us - only Cavanagh x2, McCarron Harte, Mattie Donnelly and McAliskey started the 2016 game for us.
This Mayo side has been around the block for a good 6 years now, bar Diarmuid O'Connor, Durcan, Harrison and Coen it seems to be more or less the same side as 2011. You have a lot of that side hitting their 30s now - Clarke, Higgins, Cafferkey, Boyle, Moran x2, Dillon, Barrett, S O'Shea are in and around that age group.
Tyrone really only have the McMahons, Cavanaghs and McCarron in that age bracket. Joe McMahon has only played about 100 minutes of Championship football in the last 3 seasons too.
In comparison, this Tyrone side still have it all to prove, but the age profile is a good bit younger than that of Mayo who have been on the road for quite a while.
This year was Tyrones chance to push on. They had finally won a Ulster and beat Donegal. Their failure to beat a Mayo team in
decline who had a 7 day turn around to deal with was a real setback. Tyrone are no nearer than Mayo to lifting Sam. Nothing in the past 5 years have pointed in that direction.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2016, 08:54:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 08:17:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2016, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 07:50:20 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough
We didn't take our chances, I thought there were instances when we were bullied by a more physical side. We made poor decisions in the final third. I think management deserved some criticism regarding persisting with having players hitting frees from outside their range and starting McShane who is still a little raw.
A bit like Kerry last year, we had the chances, our gameplan worked in effect but the players didn't profit on them and as such, introspection from the players is where the solution lies, if we're back again next year repeating the same mistakes then it's a massive worry. This Mayo team is on their 7th campaign this coming season as opposed to the the 3rd for Tyrone. Time is running out for Mayo.
Remember Mayo Playing Tyrone in 2013 in a semi final! That's year 5 by my reckoning this coming season. So your progress has been slow, if there has been progress? You still rely on a lot of Sean Cavanagh for inspiration and time is running on for him also.
Massive change in the Tyrone side in that time, of the 20 players involved that day:
McConnell, Gormley, Carlin, O'Neill have all retired.
McKenna, McGinley, Mark Donnelly, Aidan Cassidy and Kyle Coney are no longer on the panel.
It's also quite probable that neither Joe McMahon and Conor Clarke will make the Championship squad this year.
On the other hand, 10 of the Mayo starting XV that played us in 2013 started this year's quarter final against us - only Cavanagh x2, McCarron Harte, Mattie Donnelly and McAliskey started the 2016 game for us.
This Mayo side has been around the block for a good 6 years now, bar Diarmuid O'Connor, Durcan, Harrison and Coen it seems to be more or less the same side as 2011. You have a lot of that side hitting their 30s now - Clarke, Higgins, Cafferkey, Boyle, Moran x2, Dillon, Barrett, S O'Shea are in and around that age group.
Tyrone really only have the McMahons, Cavanaghs and McCarron in that age bracket. Joe McMahon has only played about 100 minutes of Championship football in the last 3 seasons too.
In comparison, this Tyrone side still have it all to prove, but the age profile is a good bit younger than that of Mayo who have been on the road for quite a while.
This year was Tyrones chance to push on. They had finally won a Ulster and beat Donegal. Their failure to beat a Mayo team in decline who had a 7 day turn around to deal with was a real setback. Tyrone are no nearer than Mayo to lifting Sam. Nothing in the past 5 years have pointed in that direction.
Precisely, Tyrone are no closer than Mayo.
This Tyrone side are heading into year 3.
This Mayo side are heading into year 7.
The Tyrone squad also didn't jettison their management either.
Its interesting 13/19 of team that lost to Longford in 2010 played league Championship/League for Mayo this year. Maybe JOM didnt do a bad job after all.
MAYO: D Clarke; C Barrett, G Cafferkey, K Higgins; D Vaughan, T Howley, K McLoughlin; A O'Shea, P Harte; A Moran (0-2, 45), S O'Shea (0-1), A Freeman (0-5, one free); C Mortimer (0-2, one free), B Moran (0-1), A Dillon (0-3). Subs: L O'Malley for McLoughlin (35 mins), M Ronaldson for A O'Shea (42 mins), T Parsons for Howley (53 mins), WJ Padden for Harte (67 mins).
Quote from: gammysolo on December 28, 2016, 09:09:12 PM
Its interesting 13/19 of team that lost to Longford in 2010 played league Championship/League for Mayo this year. Maybe JOM didnt do a bad job after all.
MAYO: D Clarke; C Barrett, G Cafferkey, K Higgins; D Vaughan, T Howley, K McLoughlin; A O'Shea, P Harte; A Moran (0-2, 45), S O'Shea (0-1), A Freeman (0-5, one free); C Mortimer (0-2, one free), B Moran (0-1), A Dillon (0-3). Subs: L O'Malley for McLoughlin (35 mins), M Ronaldson for A O'Shea (42 mins), T Parsons for Howley (53 mins), WJ Padden for Harte (67 mins).
Or Maybe Rossie lad he made a Pigs Ear out of a Silk purse at the time?
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2016, 09:22:30 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 28, 2016, 09:09:12 PM
Its interesting 13/19 of team that lost to Longford in 2010 played league Championship/League for Mayo this year. Maybe JOM didnt do a bad job after all.
MAYO: D Clarke; C Barrett, G Cafferkey, K Higgins; D Vaughan, T Howley, K McLoughlin; A O'Shea, P Harte; A Moran (0-2, 45), S O'Shea (0-1), A Freeman (0-5, one free); C Mortimer (0-2, one free), B Moran (0-1), A Dillon (0-3). Subs: L O'Malley for McLoughlin (35 mins), M Ronaldson for A O'Shea (42 mins), T Parsons for Howley (53 mins), WJ Padden for Harte (67 mins).
Or Maybe Rossie lad he made a Pigs Ear out of a Silk purse at the time?
It had been a good year up to that winning 6/7 games in league. Things went pear shaped after league final defeat to Cork.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 08:17:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2016, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 07:50:20 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough
We didn't take our chances, I thought there were instances when we were bullied by a more physical side. We made poor decisions in the final third. I think management deserved some criticism regarding persisting with having players hitting frees from outside their range and starting McShane who is still a little raw.
A bit like Kerry last year, we had the chances, our gameplan worked in effect but the players didn't profit on them and as such, introspection from the players is where the solution lies, if we're back again next year repeating the same mistakes then it's a massive worry. This Mayo team is on their 7th campaign this coming season as opposed to the the 3rd for Tyrone. Time is running out for Mayo.
Remember Mayo Playing Tyrone in 2013 in a semi final! That's year 5 by my reckoning this coming season. So your progress has been slow, if there has been progress? You still rely on a lot of Sean Cavanagh for inspiration and time is running on for him also.
Massive change in the Tyrone side in that time, of the 20 players involved that day:
McConnell, Gormley, Carlin, O'Neill have all retired.
McKenna, McGinley, Mark Donnelly, Aidan Cassidy and Kyle Coney are no longer on the panel.
It's also quite probable that neither Joe McMahon and Conor Clarke will make the Championship squad this year.
On the other hand, 10 of the Mayo starting XV that played us in 2013 started this year's quarter final against us - only Cavanagh x2, McCarron Harte, Mattie Donnelly and McAliskey started the 2016 game for us.
This Mayo side has been around the block for a good 6 years now, bar Diarmuid O'Connor, Durcan, Harrison and Coen it seems to be more or less the same side as 2011. You have a lot of that side hitting their 30s now - Clarke, Higgins, Cafferkey, Boyle, Moran x2, Dillon, Barrett, S O'Shea are in and around that age group.
Tyrone really only have the McMahons, Cavanaghs and McCarron in that age bracket. Joe McMahon has only played about 100 minutes of Championship football in the last 3 seasons too.
In comparison, this Tyrone side still have it all to prove, but the age profile is a good bit younger than that of Mayo who have been on the road for quite a while.
Is Clarke knee fcuked? McGinley looked decent-where he gone to?
Quote from: gammysolo on December 28, 2016, 10:00:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2016, 09:22:30 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 28, 2016, 09:09:12 PM
Its interesting 13/19 of team that lost to Longford in 2010 played league Championship/League for Mayo this year. Maybe JOM didnt do a bad job after all.
MAYO: D Clarke; C Barrett, G Cafferkey, K Higgins; D Vaughan, T Howley, K McLoughlin; A O'Shea, P Harte; A Moran (0-2, 45), S O'Shea (0-1), A Freeman (0-5, one free); C Mortimer (0-2, one free), B Moran (0-1), A Dillon (0-3). Subs: L O'Malley for McLoughlin (35 mins), M Ronaldson for A O'Shea (42 mins), T Parsons for Howley (53 mins), WJ Padden for Harte (67 mins).
Or Maybe Rossie lad he made a Pigs Ear out of a Silk purse at the time?
It had been a good year up to that winning 6/7 games in league. Things went pear shaped after league final defeat to Cork.
He won the FBD in a canter as well. Done all the hard work in the Spring and was left with an empty engine come summer!
Quote from: gammysolo on December 28, 2016, 10:04:11 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 08:17:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2016, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 07:50:20 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 28, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Quote from: criostlinn on December 28, 2016, 06:51:09 PM
As I said he doesn't get it.
Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it
I'm the pragmatist here.
It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.
The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.
Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough
We didn't take our chances, I thought there were instances when we were bullied by a more physical side. We made poor decisions in the final third. I think management deserved some criticism regarding persisting with having players hitting frees from outside their range and starting McShane who is still a little raw.
A bit like Kerry last year, we had the chances, our gameplan worked in effect but the players didn't profit on them and as such, introspection from the players is where the solution lies, if we're back again next year repeating the same mistakes then it's a massive worry. This Mayo team is on their 7th campaign this coming season as opposed to the the 3rd for Tyrone. Time is running out for Mayo.
Remember Mayo Playing Tyrone in 2013 in a semi final! That's year 5 by my reckoning this coming season. So your progress has been slow, if there has been progress? You still rely on a lot of Sean Cavanagh for inspiration and time is running on for him also.
Massive change in the Tyrone side in that time, of the 20 players involved that day:
McConnell, Gormley, Carlin, O'Neill have all retired.
McKenna, McGinley, Mark Donnelly, Aidan Cassidy and Kyle Coney are no longer on the panel.
It's also quite probable that neither Joe McMahon and Conor Clarke will make the Championship squad this year.
On the other hand, 10 of the Mayo starting XV that played us in 2013 started this year's quarter final against us - only Cavanagh x2, McCarron Harte, Mattie Donnelly and McAliskey started the 2016 game for us.
This Mayo side has been around the block for a good 6 years now, bar Diarmuid O'Connor, Durcan, Harrison and Coen it seems to be more or less the same side as 2011. You have a lot of that side hitting their 30s now - Clarke, Higgins, Cafferkey, Boyle, Moran x2, Dillon, Barrett, S O'Shea are in and around that age group.
Tyrone really only have the McMahons, Cavanaghs and McCarron in that age bracket. Joe McMahon has only played about 100 minutes of Championship football in the last 3 seasons too.
In comparison, this Tyrone side still have it all to prove, but the age profile is a good bit younger than that of Mayo who have been on the road for quite a while.
Is Clarke knee fcuked? McGinley looked decent-where he gone to?
McGinley was a headless chicken, great athlete but very erratic. Moved to London at the start of the 2015 season so dropped off the panel, I think he would have fallen off with the players coming through anyway like McCann and McNabb shaking off his injury troubles - not to mention guys like Brennan and McGeary coming along since.
Clarke is a great disappointment, broke onto the scene at a young and looked like he would be a mainstay for years to come, he had the size and mobility and had a good bit of football in him too. A bad knee injury and questionable rehab seems to have finished him at intercounty level, he is slow as a week in jail these days and seems to be dogged by minor injuries. I'd say he's one of the likely players to be culled after the McKenna Cup.
mc cann is some replacement for mc ginley alright.lol same erratic play only with even worse feet than mc ginley. its prob why tyrone havent pushed on.
Quote from: southtyronegael on December 28, 2016, 11:42:35 PM
mc cann is some replacement for mc ginley alright.lol same erratic play only with even worse feet than mc ginley. its prob why tyrone havent pushed on.
Oh dear.
Quote from: gammysolo on December 28, 2016, 09:09:12 PM
Its interesting 13/19 of team that lost to Longford in 2010 played league Championship/League for Mayo this year. Maybe JOM didnt do a bad job after all.
MAYO: D Clarke; C Barrett, G Cafferkey, K Higgins; D Vaughan, T Howley, K McLoughlin; A O'Shea, P Harte; A Moran (0-2, 45), S O'Shea (0-1), A Freeman (0-5, one free); C Mortimer (0-2, one free), B Moran (0-1), A Dillon (0-3). Subs: L O'Malley for McLoughlin (35 mins), M Ronaldson for A O'Shea (42 mins), T Parsons for Howley (53 mins), WJ Padden for Harte (67 mins).
It shows you how low things were in 2010 when we had to drag Willie Joe out of retirement for a substitute appearance with 3 minutes to go.... :P
Just on the Johnno thing (not going to waste my breath talking about Dumb & Dumber and their fairytale session with Breheny), I recall reading a piece in one of the national papers after his resignation. The journalist told an anecdote about how, shortly after JOM was appointed to the Mayo job, himself and a group of journalists happened to be in the company of a few players at some function or other, one of which was a Mayo player. It was put to said player (who obviously remained nameless) that it was all set up for Mayo now to win Sam in 2007, with the appointment of JOM destined to lead us to the promised land to which the player replied along the lines of "you're joking? We'll go nowhere under him!". To be fair, he was dead right - unless you count rock bottom as a destination.....
Anyway, time to close this thread I reckon as it's going nowhere - FBD starts in a few days and we'll be strapped in again for the roller coaster ride that is Mayo football once again. Bring it on!! 8)
Quote from: Cllr Willie Power on December 29, 2016, 02:10:41 PM
not going to waste my breath talking about Dumb & Dumber and their fairytale session with Breheny),
:D :D
Is it Rochey with a y or an ie - there seems to be a couple of variations among Mayo fans
The Mayo response here reminds me of the way Gardai treat whistleblowers in their organisation. Seek and destroy.
Quote from: Syferus on December 29, 2016, 04:49:12 PM
The Mayo response here reminds me of the way Gardai treat whistleblowers in their organisation. Seek and destroy.
Syf, me oul' buddy, I'm writing this more from worry than anger. Somehow, I never could get angry with you before and I don't intend to do so now but I am genuinely concerned that you have anger management issues or your computer is talking back to you or whatever.
Why don't you give this topic a break for your own sake and find something positive to do -you'd be better employed shaving gooseberries in a jam factory than going on and on about something you know sweet eff all about.
I'd put good money on it that ot a single individual in Mayo gives two flying fucks about what you think or, for that matter, what Holmes or Connelly think either.
Along with that other space traveller from Tyrone you keep on digging away on nonsensical rants about Mayo fans and newspaper reporters and the likes who are all wrong and you and the other tulip, somehow or other, are right.
Anyone who buys any story from any newspaper hack should proceed with caution as the likes of Brehony are looking for column inches and the 'truth' can be well off the mark.
The account given by two angry, humiliated men is contains contradictions and vague assertions and was designed to put Rochford's authority under scrutiny.
Anyone without their own hidden agendas could pick holes in that diatribe without a bother.
So why persist?
Really, I'm 100% certain that I am the only one who is concerned about your state of mind. I know I don't really have to read the crap you come out with but if you really want to talk to yourself, why do it online on a public forum?
Trust me, I'm for your good.
Lee Keegan had an interview on RTE news yesterday I picked up on a northern Irish accent. Was he born or did he live there?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 29, 2016, 09:34:18 PM
Lee Keegan had an interview on RTE news yesterday I picked up on a northern Irish accent. Was he born or did he live there?
Lived in Cavan in his youth!
Quote from: Syferus on December 29, 2016, 04:49:12 PM
The Mayo response here reminds me of the way Gardai treat whistleblowers in their organisation. Seek and destroy.
H&C are hardly comparable to whistleblowers. They were the establishment ffs. The chosen ones. More like a royal family grousing about how unreliable and sensitive staff are nowadays
Quote from: moysider on December 29, 2016, 11:11:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 29, 2016, 04:49:12 PM
The Mayo response here reminds me of the way Gardai treat whistleblowers in their organisation. Seek and destroy.
H&C are hardly comparable to whistleblowers. They were the establishment ffs. The chosen ones. More like a royal family grousing about how unreliable and sensitive staff are nowadays
As long as we can look forward to the annual Mayo bottling festival nothing else matters. The Mayo fans kneeling before the statue of St Aidan dont want to know the truth about the big head non achievers on the county panel.
Quote from: moysider on December 29, 2016, 11:11:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 29, 2016, 04:49:12 PM
The Mayo response here reminds me of the way Gardai treat whistleblowers in their organisation. Seek and destroy.
H&C are hardly comparable to whistleblowers. They were the establishment ffs. The chosen ones. More like a royal family grousing about how unreliable and sensitive staff are nowadays
So you're comparing Aidan O'Shea to Paul Burrell? They both do like a bit of TV time alright..
Quote from: Syferus on December 31, 2016, 06:14:09 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 29, 2016, 11:11:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 29, 2016, 04:49:12 PM
The Mayo response here reminds me of the way Gardai treat whistleblowers in their organisation. Seek and destroy.
H&C are hardly comparable to whistleblowers. They were the establishment ffs. The chosen ones. More like a royal family grousing about how unreliable and sensitive staff are nowadays
So you're comparing Aidan O'Shea to Paul Burrell? They both do like a bit of TV time alright..
It's not the time for argument, so Happy New Year Syf to you and to the other eejit who posted before you and I'll go as far as including the looper from Tyrone as well.
Happy New Year to all Rhubarbs from Co Mayo esp Larry and Moy, 2 of the best.
As for those Rhus from Co Roscommon>:( ******* may their hens never lay, may their holes be always itchy, may their arms be too short to reach round to scratch....., may they be friends of Syfīn. .... :D
Happy New Year Rossfan. Good luck with trying to keep the lid on Sy. in 2017.
In hindsight, Mayo can be very grateful Holmes and Connelly got the gig ahead of McStay back in 2015.
I'm delighted he never got the Kildare job either when he was interested.
Aidan O'Shea takes issue over ex-Mayo managers' claims
The former managers said in the interview that O'Shea contacted them to complain about their objections to his participation in the series.
Email correspondence between O'Shea and the management over the release of a player from a match-day squad was also referenced.
The player also said he took issue with this newspaper's presentation of the interview, claiming he should have been given a right of reply with the publication of the article.
"It's not something I dwell on - I've completely moved on myself personally and the group have completely moved forward."
On the weekend that the interview was published, a Mayo media official made it clear in a response to a query from this newspaper that none of the players would be responding.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/aidan-oshea-takes-issue-over-exmayo-managers-claims-35675632.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/aidan-oshea-takes-issue-over-exmayo-managers-claims-35675632.html)
This really is the last chance saloon for this group of Mayo players.
Rochford will not get the fools pardon he got last year for the goalkeeping fiasco and I have it on good authority McEntee may not be taking up the post next year due to being sick of the travelling.
Its all or nothing now
Quote from: Taylor on May 03, 2017, 12:07:39 PM
This really is the last chance saloon for this group of Mayo players.
Rochford will not get the fools pardon he got last year for the goalkeeping fiasco and I have it on good authority McEntee may not be taking up the post next year due to being sick of the travelling.
Its all or nothing now
Same as it was last year, and the year before and the year before that....
Quote from: Jinxy on May 03, 2017, 11:43:15 AM
Aidan O'Shea takes issue over ex-Mayo managers' claims
The former managers said in the interview that O'Shea contacted them to complain about their objections to his participation in the series.
Email correspondence between O'Shea and the management over the release of a player from a match-day squad was also referenced.
The player also said he took issue with this newspaper's presentation of the interview, claiming he should have been given a right of reply with the publication of the article.
"It's not something I dwell on - I've completely moved on myself personally and the group have completely moved forward."
On the weekend that the interview was published, a Mayo media official made it clear in a response to a query from this newspaper that none of the players would be responding.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/aidan-oshea-takes-issue-over-exmayo-managers-claims-35675632.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/aidan-oshea-takes-issue-over-exmayo-managers-claims-35675632.html)
There's no quote in that article to back up the bit in bold. Totally misleading headline and article.
He said it wasn't the time to talk about it so they made it up
Could McEntee not find an aul helicopter lying around Crossmaglen that he could use to fly up and down?
Quote from: Tubberman on May 03, 2017, 12:09:21 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 03, 2017, 12:07:39 PM
This really is the last chance saloon for this group of Mayo players.
Rochford will not get the fools pardon he got last year for the goalkeeping fiasco and I have it on good authority McEntee may not be taking up the post next year due to being sick of the travelling.
Its all or nothing now
Same as it was last year, and the year before and the year before that....
Not so......more miles on clock for major players AND Rochford/McEntee breaking up as a management team
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on May 03, 2017, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 03, 2017, 11:43:15 AM
Aidan O'Shea takes issue over ex-Mayo managers' claims
The former managers said in the interview that O'Shea contacted them to complain about their objections to his participation in the series.
Email correspondence between O'Shea and the management over the release of a player from a match-day squad was also referenced.
The player also said he took issue with this newspaper's presentation of the interview, claiming he should have been given a right of reply with the publication of the article.
"It's not something I dwell on - I've completely moved on myself personally and the group have completely moved forward."
On the weekend that the interview was published, a Mayo media official made it clear in a response to a query from this newspaper that none of the players would be responding.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/aidan-oshea-takes-issue-over-exmayo-managers-claims-35675632.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/aidan-oshea-takes-issue-over-exmayo-managers-claims-35675632.html)
There's no quote in that article to back up the bit in bold. Totally misleading headline and article.
He said it wasn't the time to talk about it so they made it up
You're really reaching now. AOS/SOS/COC/Dillon got caught with their hands in the cookie jar as regards player power. It's not like the joint managers were the first ones to mention undue control or entitlement by those players - all they did was confirm the stream of rumours coming out of Mayo the previous 18-24 months.
Just because they're (mostly) good players doesn't mean they should be absolved and blindly defended.
If McEntee wants off then don't stand in his way afterall I'm sure Mayo can get someone more local and cheaper to do a similar job as him. Donie Buckley is the most important member of the Mayo management team, the longer he's kept on the longer Mayo will remain consistency competitive against the best.
(https://cynfulhindsight.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/barbrady.jpg)
How do you know McEntee can be easily replaced and that Buckley is so important? I'm not saying you're not right but it seems an odd statement if you're not part of the panel.
I think Mayo will remain competitive for the foreseeable future but it's hard to see them not slip back into the pack rather than step up to All Ireland winners with the players coming through.
Quote from: Zulu on May 03, 2017, 02:59:27 PM
How do you know McEntee can be easily replaced and that Buckley is so important? I'm not saying you're not right but it seems an odd statement if you're not part of the panel.
I think Mayo will remain competitive for the foreseeable future but it's hard to see them not slip back into the pack rather than step up to All Ireland winners with the players coming through.
thanks for the concern but theres loads of players coming through . just not all at the same time . more of a seamless transition. the cream of last years u21s are in a development group to be deployed as needed
Quote from: Zulu on May 03, 2017, 02:59:27 PM
How do you know McEntee can be easily replaced and that Buckley is so important? I'm not saying you're not right but it seems an odd statement if you're not part of the panel.
I think Mayo will remain competitive for the foreseeable future but it's hard to see them not slip back into the pack rather than step up to All Ireland winners with the players coming through.
Buckley was brought in by James Horan and his impact in improving team in organisation,tackling and added toughest is clear for all to see.
McEntee was brought in by Rochford in the hope he would add more and deliver a further impact to the panel of players however thus far Mayos form has been patchy at best the sweeper system has been hit or miss. And some have the opinion that too many cooks will eventually spoil the broth.
At the moment Mayo have the right blend of experience and youth but the foreseeable future it remains to be seen how Mayo cope when the current experience players call time on their careers.
Quote from: rosnarun on May 03, 2017, 03:53:21 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 03, 2017, 02:59:27 PM
How do you know McEntee can be easily replaced and that Buckley is so important? I'm not saying you're not right but it seems an odd statement if you're not part of the panel.
I think Mayo will remain competitive for the foreseeable future but it's hard to see them not slip back into the pack rather than step up to All Ireland winners with the players coming through.
thanks for the concern but theres loads of players coming through . just not all at the same time . more of a seamless transition. the cream of last years u21s are in a development group to be deployed as needed
The type of player who will make the difference don't seem to be coming through. A big traditional football county like Mayo will always produce players but to win All Irelands you need some of the top 2 or 3% of the players in Ireland. Players like Higgins, Moran, Boyle etc. won't be easily replaced and I see no sign of a really good forward or two coming through. Maybe there is but Kerry and Galway seem to have that quality coming through more than Mayo.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 03, 2017, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 03, 2017, 02:59:27 PM
How do you know McEntee can be easily replaced and that Buckley is so important? I'm not saying you're not right but it seems an odd statement if you're not part of the panel.
I think Mayo will remain competitive for the foreseeable future but it's hard to see them not slip back into the pack rather than step up to All Ireland winners with the players coming through.
Buckley was brought in by James Horan and his impact in improving team in organisation,tackling and added toughest is clear for all to see.
McEntee was brought in by Rochford in the hope he would add more and deliver a further impact to the panel of players however thus far Mayos form has been patchy at best the sweeper system has been hit or miss. And some have the opinion that too many cooks will eventually spoil the broth.
At the moment Mayo have the right blend of experience and youth but the foreseeable future it remains to be seen how Mayo cope when the current experience players call time on their careers.
Why are you hiding your personal opinion behind that old reliable, 'some say'?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 03, 2017, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 03, 2017, 02:59:27 PM
How do you know McEntee can be easily replaced and that Buckley is so important? I'm not saying you're not right but it seems an odd statement if you're not part of the panel.
I think Mayo will remain competitive for the foreseeable future but it's hard to see them not slip back into the pack rather than step up to All Ireland winners with the players coming through.
Buckley was brought in by James Horan and his impact in improving team in organisation,tackling and added toughest is clear for all to see.
McEntee was brought in by Rochford in the hope he would add more and deliver a further impact to the panel of players however thus far Mayos form has been patchy at best the sweeper system has been hit or miss. And some have the opinion that too many cooks will eventually spoil the broth.
At the moment Mayo have the right blend of experience and youth but the foreseeable future it remains to be seen how Mayo cope when the current experience players call time on their careers.
To be fair, McEntee came in when this Mayo team were close to performing at full capacity. Harder for McEntee to make clear improvements but I think many feel they've been tactically astute and pushing a more talented Dublin team so close is a good reflection of the current management. What McEntee contributes I don't know but it could well be a lot.
Quote from: Zulu on May 03, 2017, 04:46:37 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 03, 2017, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 03, 2017, 02:59:27 PM
How do you know McEntee can be easily replaced and that Buckley is so important? I'm not saying you're not right but it seems an odd statement if you're not part of the panel.
I think Mayo will remain competitive for the foreseeable future but it's hard to see them not slip back into the pack rather than step up to All Ireland winners with the players coming through.
Buckley was brought in by James Horan and his impact in improving team in organisation,tackling and added toughest is clear for all to see.
McEntee was brought in by Rochford in the hope he would add more and deliver a further impact to the panel of players however thus far Mayos form has been patchy at best the sweeper system has been hit or miss. And some have the opinion that too many cooks will eventually spoil the broth.
At the moment Mayo have the right blend of experience and youth but the foreseeable future it remains to be seen how Mayo cope when the current experience players call time on their careers.
To be fair, McEntee came in when this Mayo team were close to performing at full capacity. Harder for McEntee to make clear improvements but I think many feel they've been tactically astute and pushing a more talented Dublin team so close is a good reflection of the current management. What McEntee contributes I don't know but it could well be a lot.
Not sure how much it had to do with tactics. In fairness that more talented Dublin team were gassed out and there for the taking after their highly competitive semi final encounter against Kerry. If Mayo were in their form of 2013 I think they would have won last Septembers final by a bit to spare.
That's fairly speculative to be fair but I think they showed some decent game management. It's impossible to say who is doing what behind the scenes anyway so it's all a bit speculative in these things.
Quote from: Syferus on May 03, 2017, 01:09:53 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on May 03, 2017, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 03, 2017, 11:43:15 AM
Aidan O'Shea takes issue over ex-Mayo managers' claims
The former managers said in the interview that O'Shea contacted them to complain about their objections to his participation in the series.
Email correspondence between O'Shea and the management over the release of a player from a match-day squad was also referenced.
The player also said he took issue with this newspaper's presentation of the interview, claiming he should have been given a right of reply with the publication of the article.
"It's not something I dwell on - I've completely moved on myself personally and the group have completely moved forward."
On the weekend that the interview was published, a Mayo media official made it clear in a response to a query from this newspaper that none of the players would be responding.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/aidan-oshea-takes-issue-over-exmayo-managers-claims-35675632.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/aidan-oshea-takes-issue-over-exmayo-managers-claims-35675632.html)
There's no quote in that article to back up the bit in bold. Totally misleading headline and article.
He said it wasn't the time to talk about it so they made it up
You're really reaching now. AOS/SOS/COC/Dillon got caught with their hands in the cookie jar as regards player power. It's not like the joint managers were the first ones to mention undue control or entitlement by those players - all they did was confirm the stream of rumours coming out of Mayo the previous 18-24 months.
Just because they're (mostly) good players doesn't mean they should be absolved and blindly defended.
Ah c'mon Syf, you're losing control of your senses and the season hasn't even started yet. ;D
You'll be frigged completely before the third Sunday of September. Don't worry too much about Mayo, we're doing grand entirely.
Anybody who would seriously take what Noel and Pateen had to say deserves a break in the nearest home for the bewildered. There was nothing in that whinge fest that could stand up to scrutiny. What the hell had rumours about financial irregularities got to do with Dumb and Dumber getting the bum's rush? Problem with someone who arranged transport for the squad or whatever. What had that to do with player/ management issues? Some buck gets annoyed because some other hoor either went to or missed mass, so effin' what? The two chancers said some player left match plans behind in the hotel but didn't explain what that had to do with them being shafted.
So if a player forgot to bring the notes along to the game, the panel rounds on the gruesome twosome and blames them instead of the clattering a biteen of sense into the eejit who forgot the team plans. If that makes sense to you, you need professional help at once. Doesn't say much for standards of journalism at the Indo that this claim was allowed into print without anyone bothering to check it out.
THe real story is that the notes were left behind by the managers, not an unnamed player who Holmes, Connolly and Martin Breheny knew very well was not going to respond.
I could go on and on about that 'exposé' but since neither me nor the rest of Mayo give one damn about what rubbish is being piled up to attack our team, there's no point in trying to explain or defend that which needs no explanation nor defence whatever..
Jases Lar when did Syfīn get senses to lose control of? :o
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 03, 2017, 02:56:32 PM
(https://cynfulhindsight.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/barbrady.jpg)
It's MAYO !
There wil ALWAYS be something to see here. ;D
I didn't know he was missing. I would look in Castlebar.
Martin isn't taking this lying down. :o
Martin Breheny: Aidan O'Shea has made unsubstantiated allegations against the Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html)
Quote from: Jinxy on May 04, 2017, 01:49:51 PM
Martin isn't taking this lying down. :o
Martin Breheny: Aidan O'Shea has made unsubstantiated allegations against the Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html)
Haven't clicked on the link as I wouldn't like to contribute to their hit counter, but the headline just reaffirms my opinion of Breheny as a journalist and the Independent as a newspaper - neither are worthy of the title.
What a clown Breheny is, he's a grown man ffs.
Quote from: Tubberman on May 04, 2017, 02:04:56 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 04, 2017, 01:49:51 PM
Martin isn't taking this lying down. :o
Martin Breheny: Aidan O'Shea has made unsubstantiated allegations against the Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html)
Haven't clicked on the link as I wouldn't like to contribute to their hit counter, but the headline just reaffirms my opinion of Breheny as a journalist and the Independent as a newspaper - neither are worthy of the title.
What a clown Breheny is, he's a grown man ffs.
Ah come on. AOS says he didn't get a chance to respond to the 'claims' - Breheny rightly tears him a new one by pointing out the panel were contacted and given that very opportunity.
AOS trying to deflect blame for his own actions on a newspaper is the real nonsense in all this. If he really wanted to close the book on this he would come out and say he didn't like the joint managers, the ground rules they set down or who they were picking - people would respect him a lot more if he were honest.
Everyone and their mother knows it will all come out in 10 years' time when he or one of the other panelists have an autobiography to flog anyways.
Quote from: Syferus on May 04, 2017, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 04, 2017, 02:04:56 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 04, 2017, 01:49:51 PM
Martin isn't taking this lying down. :o
Martin Breheny: Aidan O'Shea has made unsubstantiated allegations against the Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html)
Haven't clicked on the link as I wouldn't like to contribute to their hit counter, but the headline just reaffirms my opinion of Breheny as a journalist and the Independent as a newspaper - neither are worthy of the title.
What a clown Breheny is, he's a grown man ffs.
Ah come on. AOS says he didn't get a chance to respond to the 'claims' - Breheny rightly tears him a new one by pointing out the panel were contacted and given that very opportunity.
AOS trying to deflect blame for his own actions on a newspaper is the real nonsense in all this. If he really wanted to close the book on this he would come out and say he didn't like the joint managers, the ground rules they set down or who they were picking - people would respect him a lot more if he were honest.
Everyone and their mother knows it will all come out in 10 years' time when he or one of the other panelists have an autobiography to flog anyways.
As I said, I haven't read the piece. But that type of headline is more like something you'd read in The Daily Mail! It sounds like Breheny is about to meet AOS on the steps of the High Court ffs.
How do you know that Breheny's account of what happened is correct btw? Maybe you should step back and stop posting as if you're fully aware of the facts when you obviously aren't.
Here's what AOS actually said as taken from the hoganstand.
"It's old news. It's factually incorrect and that's unfortunately the way the paper wanted to write it.
"That's their prerogative. It's not something I dwell on – I've completely moved on myself personally and the group have completely moved forward.
"We're trying to win an All-Ireland for lots of reasons but that's (getting back at Holmes and Connelly) not one of them.
"I'm not going to get into it, to be honest with ya. It's not the time or place but some day in the future I'm sure I'll go back over it, yeah.
"I didn't get the right to respond at the time and as a duty as a journalist they didn't give me the right at the time and I'm not going to do it now, six months later. It's a lack of respect. Please."
Quote from: Tubberman on May 04, 2017, 03:07:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 04, 2017, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 04, 2017, 02:04:56 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 04, 2017, 01:49:51 PM
Martin isn't taking this lying down. :o
Martin Breheny: Aidan O'Shea has made unsubstantiated allegations against the Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html)
Haven't clicked on the link as I wouldn't like to contribute to their hit counter, but the headline just reaffirms my opinion of Breheny as a journalist and the Independent as a newspaper - neither are worthy of the title.
What a clown Breheny is, he's a grown man ffs.
Ah come on. AOS says he didn't get a chance to respond to the 'claims' - Breheny rightly tears him a new one by pointing out the panel were contacted and given that very opportunity.
AOS trying to deflect blame for his own actions on a newspaper is the real nonsense in all this. If he really wanted to close the book on this he would come out and say he didn't like the joint managers, the ground rules they set down or who they were picking - people would respect him a lot more if he were honest.
Everyone and their mother knows it will all come out in 10 years' time when he or one of the other panelists have an autobiography to flog anyways.
As I said, I haven't read the piece. But that type of headline is more like something you'd read in The Daily Mail! It sounds like Breheny is about to meet AOS on the steps of the High Court ffs.
How do you know that Breheny's account of what happened is correct btw? Maybe you should step back and stop posting as if you're fully aware of the facts when you obviously aren't.
I know because any journo with a juicy story contacts the other side for their take. It's literally journalism 101. For them it's a no loss request - at worst they get nothing, at best get another hot take that'll sell papers or page-views. You can criticize Breheny for plenty but he isn't lying on this one.
Quote from: Syferus on May 04, 2017, 03:35:52 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 04, 2017, 03:07:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 04, 2017, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 04, 2017, 02:04:56 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 04, 2017, 01:49:51 PM
Martin isn't taking this lying down. :o
Martin Breheny: Aidan O'Shea has made unsubstantiated allegations against the Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-aidan-oshea-has-made-unsubstantiated-allegations-against-the-irish-independent-35678782.html)
Haven't clicked on the link as I wouldn't like to contribute to their hit counter, but the headline just reaffirms my opinion of Breheny as a journalist and the Independent as a newspaper - neither are worthy of the title.
What a clown Breheny is, he's a grown man ffs.
Ah come on. AOS says he didn't get a chance to respond to the 'claims' - Breheny rightly tears him a new one by pointing out the panel were contacted and given that very opportunity.
AOS trying to deflect blame for his own actions on a newspaper is the real nonsense in all this. If he really wanted to close the book on this he would come out and say he didn't like the joint managers, the ground rules they set down or who they were picking - people would respect him a lot more if he were honest.
Everyone and their mother knows it will all come out in 10 years' time when he or one of the other panelists have an autobiography to flog anyways.
As I said, I haven't read the piece. But that type of headline is more like something you'd read in The Daily Mail! It sounds like Breheny is about to meet AOS on the steps of the High Court ffs.
How do you know that Breheny's account of what happened is correct btw? Maybe you should step back and stop posting as if you're fully aware of the facts when you obviously aren't.
I know because any journo with a juicy story contacts the other side for their take. It's literally journalism 101. For them it's a no loss request - at worst they get nothing, at best get another hot take that'll sell papers or page-views. You can criticize Breheny for plenty but he isn't lying on this one.
But I haven't accused him of lying. I said he's not worthy of being called a journalist and is a clown.
It wasn't an interview though was it?
What we know is that had the O'Sheas and a few other high profile Mayo players being filmed hiring an Eastern European hitman to take out the Mayo management team, there would still be a large amount of Mayo posters on here trying to justify it or denying it happened.
Aidan O'Shea has one of the highest media profiles in Ireland. Love him or hate him, he's box office. Editors and journalists all over the country know that. If he wasn't allowed speak out 6 months ago, as his own Co Board/Roachford would rather all the players kept quiet, or the squad had made a group decision to say nothing, that is one thing. But it's utterly laughable to imply that the Indo or anyone else in the media, would deny him the opportunity to state his own version of events, if he chose to give them. There isn't a single media outlet in the country that wouldn't fall all over themselves to give him a platform to say whatever he wants to say, for as long as he wants to say it. Don't think he did himself any favours by saying what he did. If Mayo people want all this to blow over and for everyone to move on, it is unlikely to happen if the players themselves give the situation yet more oxygen.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 04, 2017, 05:50:03 PM
What we know is that had the O'Sheas and a few other high profile Mayo players being filmed hiring an Eastern European hitman to take out the Mayo management team, there would still be a large amount of Mayo posters on here trying to justify it or denying it happened.
I categorically deny that the O'Sheas and a few other high profile Mayo players were filmed hiring an Eastern European hitman to take out the Mayo management team!
I heard they hired him to join the Mayo management team and help with their shooting.
Anyone see Martin Breheny's newest article on the Holmes/Connelly debacle?
I think he is underestimating the readers to be honest. Does he genuinely think that people cant see that articles are very often, written with a certain slant of narrative? It's insulting to people's intelligence for him to feign indignation at this assertion, not unlike his contrived assertion that Alan Dillon being unhappy at being dropped meant that there was player power. Talk about taking people for fools. It is like watching a card trick where you can see the card up the guy's sleeve.
As for his claims that he wanted to deliver the full story without bias - that is nearly as laughable as Jim Gavin's latest assertions that nobody in the Dublin set up gets paid. Again, Breheny seems to assume people don't understand how journalists and the media work.
Here is the reality of it, for my money. Mayo have been around for a while now. Like any team, sooner or later, they will fall by the wayside. They have came up short a few times, have a few characters that people dislike, and have had a bit of controversy - not unlike the cork hurlers before them. Breheny and co frankly, see a story. They know that when they do fall away there will be plenty wanting to read articles sticking the boot in. Simply put, they want to be on that gravy train early doors. That is the long and short of it, he is just angling for the story on the inevitable.
The thing is, predict any team to lose and wait long enough, and you will ultimately be right. Fact is mayo made the all Ireland final and were the best team in the drawn game after breheny made his assertions. Therefore, he got it wrong, and revisiting it over and over will never change that.
Quote from: mayoaremagic on May 05, 2017, 10:48:20 AM
Anyone see Martin Breheny's newest article on the Holmes/Connelly debacle?
Aido obviously never heard the adage "Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel."
Aido should have kept quiet - Breheny gets another few articles out of the whole thing (which in the quiet period between league and championship is an absolute gift for him) while Aido gets zip.
Amateur sportsman verses the big bad Independent. Breheny should have got the road long ago and be replaced by a young fresher gasun. Holmes and Connolly should have taken their beaten like real men, right or wrong this kind of stuff happens to us all in life. Crying like pansies makes them look weak.
Quote from: Rudi on May 05, 2017, 11:26:48 AM
Amateur sportsman verses the big bad Independent. Breheny should have got the road long ago and be replaced by a young fresher gasun. Holmes and Connolly should have taken their beaten like real men, right or wrong this kind of stuff happens to us all in life. Crying like pansies makes them look weak.
Hard to call it amateur when he's using a media gig for AIB to have a shot at the Indo..
Quote from: Beffs on May 04, 2017, 11:09:50 PM
Aidan O'Shea has one of the highest media profiles in Ireland. Love him or hate him, he's box office. Editors and journalists all over the country know that. If he wasn't allowed speak out 6 months ago, as his own Co Board/Roachford would rather all the players kept quiet, or the squad had made a group decision to say nothing, that is one thing. But it's utterly laughable to imply that the Indo or anyone else in the media, would deny him the opportunity to state his own version of events, if he chose to give them. There isn't a single media outlet in the country that wouldn't fall all over themselves to give him a platform to say whatever he wants to say, for as long as he wants to say it. Don't think he did himself any favours by saying what he did. If Mayo people want all this to blow over and for everyone to move on, it is unlikely to happen if the players themselves give the situation yet more oxygen.
Yeah, that's all very well but Breheny knew damn well that O'Shea or anyone else 'outed' by the pile of shite swas going to acknowledge it and wouldn't anything which they felt was factually incorrect.
Breheny can look to Heaven and swear by all who are there that his only motive was to post something that he felt was in the public's interest.
He knew that what was posted wasn't going to get an acknowledgement, let alone a response.
In fairness to Holmes and Connelly, what was actually published may not have been all they had intended to say. It seems to me that Breheny's article was checked by a lawyer and bits that were libellous were redacted. Otherwise, the gruesome twosome must have been on the piss for at least a solid week beforehand.
Just bear in mind that 27 of the panel of 32 voted to get rid of the pair. There was nothing in what was posted to show that it was a so-called axis of evil that was running the show and made that pair of hoors walk the plank. By any standards, 27 out of 32 suggests that there was widespread unhappiness with their performance.
Breheny didn't allude to this at any stage. That's not impartial journalism.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2017, 11:49:17 AM
Quote from: Beffs on May 04, 2017, 11:09:50 PM
Aidan O'Shea has one of the highest media profiles in Ireland. Love him or hate him, he's box office. Editors and journalists all over the country know that. If he wasn't allowed speak out 6 months ago, as his own Co Board/Roachford would rather all the players kept quiet, or the squad had made a group decision to say nothing, that is one thing. But it's utterly laughable to imply that the Indo or anyone else in the media, would deny him the opportunity to state his own version of events, if he chose to give them. There isn't a single media outlet in the country that wouldn't fall all over themselves to give him a platform to say whatever he wants to say, for as long as he wants to say it. Don't think he did himself any favours by saying what he did. If Mayo people want all this to blow over and for everyone to move on, it is unlikely to happen if the players themselves give the situation yet more oxygen.
Yeah, that's all very well but Breheny knew damn well that O'Shea or anyone else 'outed' by the pile of shite swas going to acknowledge it and wouldn't anything which they felt was factually incorrect.
Breheny can look to Heaven and swear by all who are there that his only motive was to post something that he felt was in the public's interest.
He knew that what was posted wasn't going to get an acknowledgement, let alone a response.
In fairness to Holmes and Connelly, what was actually published may not have been all they had intended to say. It seems to me that Breheny's article was checked by a lawyer and bits that were libellous were redacted. Otherwise, the gruesome twosome must have been on the piss for at least a solid week beforehand.
Just bear in mind that 27 of the panel of 32 voted to get rid of the pair. There was nothing in what was posted to show that it was a so-called axis of evil that was running the show and made that pair of hoors walk the plank. By any standards, 27 out of 32 suggests that there was widespread unhappiness with their performance.
Breheny didn't allude to this at any stage. That's not impartial journalism.
? ? ?
That assumes the Mayo players were going to launch a law suit over an interview - probably the closest assumption to the reality of their behaviour the last two seasons.
Don't make huge leaps like that just because you didn't like fact the joint managers broke the already comical Mayo omerta - that didn't stop the players releasing a constant stream of bile to the public in the form of well-founded 'rumours' throughout the mangers' year in charge.
The reaction in Mayo to this has been and continues to be head in the earth stuff. Ye are the reason lads like AOS/SOS and COC/Dillon felt so entitled that they thought they were bigger and better than the people brought in to manage them. Acting like AI winners off the field, but something far less on it.
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2017, 12:01:45 PM
The reaction in Mayo to this has been and continues to be head in the earth stuff. Ye are the reason lads like AOS/SOS and COC/Dillon felt so entitled that they thought they were bigger and better than the people brought in to manage them. Acting like AI winners off the field, but something far less on it.
If in business, a manager does not have the support of his/her most talented employees, then that manager would be likely toast. You seem to go out of your way to defend managers who have lost the dressing room. You are definitely County Board material.
Quote from: weareros on May 05, 2017, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2017, 12:01:45 PM
The reaction in Mayo to this has been and continues to be head in the earth stuff. Ye are the reason lads like AOS/SOS and COC/Dillon felt so entitled that they thought they were bigger and better than the people brought in to manage them. Acting like AI winners off the field, but something far less on it.
If in business, a manager does not have the support of his/her most talented employees, then that manager would be likely toast. You seem to go out of your way to defend managers who have lost the dressing room. You are definitely County Board material.
You realise they were four up on Dublin in the second half of an AISF replay, right? Keep trying.
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2017, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2017, 11:49:17 AM
Quote from: Beffs on May 04, 2017, 11:09:50 PM
Aidan O'Shea has one of the highest media profiles in Ireland. Love him or hate him, he's box office. Editors and journalists all over the country know that. If he wasn't allowed speak out 6 months ago, as his own Co Board/Roachford would rather all the players kept quiet, or the squad had made a group decision to say nothing, that is one thing. But it's utterly laughable to imply that the Indo or anyone else in the media, would deny him the opportunity to state his own version of events, if he chose to give them. There isn't a single media outlet in the country that wouldn't fall all over themselves to give him a platform to say whatever he wants to say, for as long as he wants to say it. Don't think he did himself any favours by saying what he did. If Mayo people want all this to blow over and for everyone to move on, it is unlikely to happen if the players themselves give the situation yet more oxygen.
Yeah, that's all very well but Breheny knew damn well that O'Shea or anyone else 'outed' by the pile of shite swas going to acknowledge it and wouldn't anything which they felt was factually incorrect.
Breheny can look to Heaven and swear by all who are there that his only motive was to post something that he felt was in the public's interest.
He knew that what was posted wasn't going to get an acknowledgement, let alone a response.
In fairness to Holmes and Connelly, what was actually published may not have been all they had intended to say. It seems to me that Breheny's article was checked by a lawyer and bits that were libellous were redacted. Otherwise, the gruesome twosome must have been on the piss for at least a solid week beforehand.
Just bear in mind that 27 of the panel of 32 voted to get rid of the pair. There was nothing in what was posted to show that it was a so-called axis of evil that was running the show and made that pair of hoors walk the plank. By any standards, 27 out of 32 suggests that there was widespread unhappiness with their performance.
Breheny didn't allude to this at any stage. That's not impartial journalism.
? ? ?
That assumes the Mayo players were going to launch a law suit over an interview - probably the closest assumption to the reality of their behaviour the last two seasons.
Don't make huge leaps like that just because you didn't like fact the joint managers broke the already comical Mayo omerta - that didn't stop the players releasing a constant stream of bile to the public in the form of well-founded 'rumours' throughout the mangers' year in charge.
The reaction in Mayo to this has been and continues to be head in the earth stuff. Ye are the reason lads like AOS/SOS and COC/Dillon felt so entitled that they thought they were bigger and better than the people brought in to manage them. Acting like AI winners off the field, but something far less on it.
Ah, cool yer jets Syf, by the time you are past puberty, you'll see things differently. ;D
You can assume whatever you damn well please let me do my own assuming, if you please.
I never said that the players might have launched a lawsuit bit I did say nobody in the Mayo camp was going to respond and that Breheny knew that. I did not make leaps of any sort. Furthermore, I don't recall any player burp up any bile at any time.
I don't know where you and some other gullible souls got the idea that "lads like AOS/SOS and COC/Dillon felt so entitled that they thought they were bigger and better than the people brought in to manage them." Dunno where COC comes into this , H&C never said that he caused them any trouble. SOS said he'd prefer Hennelly to Clarke because he had a better kick out. What you and Breheny fails to recognise is that Seamie and Robbie Have known each other for years and therefore he had a better understanding with Robbie than with Clarkie. No rocket science there.
Managers said no deal and that was their prerogative.
What's wrong with SOS asking or H&C refusing? Neither H&C nor Breheny stated that O'shea did anything other than ask and neither claimed that there was any resentment or aggro of any sort as a result of O'Shea's request.
Dillon complained that he was being unfairly treated and that Andy was getting preferential treatment. He was pissed off but that didn't lead to 27 players demanding their resignation. H&C didn't say it did but you feel you know better than they do.
What had the allegations about the dodgy fundraising? What had that to do with the players and the pair of tulips?
It appears that Noel Howley who organises transport for some of the players had a barney with the management. We weren't told what the row was about or how it affected the relationship between players and management.
What about the team plans being left behind in the hotel?
Dumb and Dumber claimed that it was a player who left them behind. Why should the players blame the managers for this? Fact is it was the pair of them that forgot to bring the plans to the game but they knew no players was going to reply so they felt safe to say what they liked.
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2017, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: weareros on May 05, 2017, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2017, 12:01:45 PM
The reaction in Mayo to this has been and continues to be head in the earth stuff. Ye are the reason lads like AOS/SOS and COC/Dillon felt so entitled that they thought they were bigger and better than the people brought in to manage them. Acting like AI winners off the field, but something far less on it.
If in business, a manager does not have the support of his/her most talented employees, then that manager would be likely toast. You seem to go out of your way to defend managers who have lost the dressing room. You are definitely County Board material.
You realise they were four up on Dublin in the second half of an AISF replay, right? Keep trying.
That doesn't change the fact that the players were not going to row in behind the management - when that happens a manager is, as I said, toast in any walk of life. The county board could, of course, have ignored the players' wishes as many county boards tend to do until the situation deteriorates. But when you don't take the right decision early, the world will give you a bigger kick in the gob down the road.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2017, 11:49:17 AM
Yeah, that's all very well but Breheny knew damn well that O'Shea or anyone else 'outed' by the pile of shite swas going to acknowledge it and wouldn't anything which they felt was factually incorrect.
Breheny can look to Heaven and swear by all who are there that his only motive was to post something that he felt was in the public's interest.
He knew that what was posted wasn't going to get an acknowledgement, let alone a response.
In fairness to Holmes and Connelly, what was actually published may not have been all they had intended to say. It seems to me that Breheny's article was checked by a lawyer and bits that were libellous were redacted. Otherwise, the gruesome twosome must have been on the piss for at least a solid week beforehand.
Just bear in mind that 27 of the panel of 32 voted to get rid of the pair. There was nothing in what was posted to show that it was a so-called axis of evil that was running the show and made that pair of hoors walk the plank. By any standards, 27 out of 32 suggests that there was widespread unhappiness with their performance.
Breheny didn't allude to this at any stage. That's not impartial journalism.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2017, 02:00:34 PM
What's wrong with SOS asking or H&C refusing? Neither H&C nor Breheny stated that O'shea did anything other than ask and neither claimed that there was any resentment or aggro of any sort as a result of O'Shea's request.
Dillon complained that he was being unfairly treated and that Andy was getting preferential treatment. He was pissed off but that didn't lead to 27 players demanding their resignation. H&C didn't say it did but you feel you know better than they do.
What had the allegations about the dodgy fundraising? What had that to do with the players and the pair of tulips?
It appears that Noel Howley who organises transport for some of the players had a barney with the management. We weren't told what the row was about or how it affected the relationship between players and management.
What about the team plans being left behind in the hotel?
Dumb and Dumber claimed that it was a player who left them behind. Why should the players blame the managers for this? Fact is it was the pair of them that forgot to bring the plans to the game but they knew no players was going to reply so they felt safe to say what they liked.
No need for that, Lar.
This isn't hoganstand.com.
Holmes,Connelly have given a lot to Mayo football over the years for both their clubs and county. Their U21 teams of 2006 to 2009 are one the reasons why Mayo seniors are where they are today e.g a top 4 team. Both men were entitled to their opinions and it was a situation that was handled terrible however it's in the past now and AOS in the media again seriously? By now he should know better and stay away from the media for a while and don't allow the old timer Indo journalist to milk this story anymore.
Has the new Mayo manager gone missing already?
Quote from: T Fearon on May 05, 2017, 07:31:48 PM
Has the new Mayo manager gone missing already?
They are always losing them.
I think the Mayo Rose competition was on recently.
Quote from: Jinxy on May 05, 2017, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2017, 11:49:17 AM
Yeah, that's all very well but Breheny knew damn well that O'Shea or anyone else 'outed' by the pile of shite swas going to acknowledge it and wouldn't anything which they felt was factually incorrect.
Breheny can look to Heaven and swear by all who are there that his only motive was to post something that he felt was in the public's interest.
He knew that what was posted wasn't going to get an acknowledgement, let alone a response.
In fairness to Holmes and Connelly, what was actually published may not have been all they had intended to say. It seems to me that Breheny's article was checked by a lawyer and bits that were libellous were redacted. Otherwise, the gruesome twosome must have been on the piss for at least a solid week beforehand.
Just bear in mind that 27 of the panel of 32 voted to get rid of the pair. There was nothing in what was posted to show that it was a so-called axis of evil that was running the show and made that pair of hoors walk the plank. By any standards, 27 out of 32 suggests that there was widespread unhappiness with their performance.
Breheny didn't allude to this at any stage. That's not impartial journalism.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2017, 02:00:34 PM
What's wrong with SOS asking or H&C refusing? Neither H&C nor Breheny stated that O'shea did anything other than ask and neither claimed that there was any resentment or aggro of any sort as a result of O'Shea's request.
Dillon complained that he was being unfairly treated and that Andy was getting preferential treatment. He was pissed off but that didn't lead to 27 players demanding their resignation. H&C didn't say it did but you feel you know better than they do.
What had the allegations about the dodgy fundraising? What had that to do with the players and the pair of tulips?
It appears that Noel Howley who organises transport for some of the players had a barney with the management. We weren't told what the row was about or how it affected the relationship between players and management.
What about the team plans being left behind in the hotel?
Dumb and Dumber claimed that it was a player who left them behind. Why should the players blame the managers for this? Fact is it was the pair of them that forgot to bring the plans to the game but they knew no players was going to reply so they felt safe to say what they liked.
No need for that, Lar.
This isn't hoganstand.com.
Know what? You are right. I was intemperate at what I saw as another attempt by an old pro journalist stir up controversy again. I imagine that all Mayo posters would agree with me that we were sorry to see both Noel and Pat being forced out. If some s.o.b at county board level hadn't leaked the news of the players' request for a meeting with the board, none of this would have come to public notice we'd all have to find something else to row about.
Back in the good ol' days when Barney was still about, we had a discussion on the best Mayo team of all time and I had no problem about selecting Connelly and making him the captain as well. Not many may know this but Pateen is the player who made the most appearances for Mayo and don't forget he was an All-Star also. Both men gave good service to the county and didn't deserve humiliation of any sort.
I did not back the players out of blind allegiance to the cause but because I wasn't happy with their version of what happened during their time in charge. I knew we weren't getting the whole story butI also knew that the players would not give their side of what really happened so any charge that was levelled at any of them was not going to be contested.
I was still feeling sorry for them both until Breheny presented their side of the story. Nothing positive came from it and the general consensus of opinion in Mayo is that the pair of boyos were whinging and should grow up. I definitely agree with the majority view. I felt sympathy for them until I saw what they were up to with their 'expose.'
PS O'Shea should have known better and said nowt about the matter as it was only going to give Breheny and his likes more oxygen to keep making headline
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2017, 07:50:33 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 05, 2017, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2017, 11:49:17 AM
Yeah, that's all very well but Breheny knew damn well that O'Shea or anyone else 'outed' by the pile of shite swas going to acknowledge it and wouldn't anything which they felt was factually incorrect.
Breheny can look to Heaven and swear by all who are there that his only motive was to post something that he felt was in the public's interest.
He knew that what was posted wasn't going to get an acknowledgement, let alone a response.
In fairness to Holmes and Connelly, what was actually published may not have been all they had intended to say. It seems to me that Breheny's article was checked by a lawyer and bits that were libellous were redacted. Otherwise, the gruesome twosome must have been on the piss for at least a solid week beforehand.
Just bear in mind that 27 of the panel of 32 voted to get rid of the pair. There was nothing in what was posted to show that it was a so-called axis of evil that was running the show and made that pair of hoors walk the plank. By any standards, 27 out of 32 suggests that there was widespread unhappiness with their performance.
Breheny didn't allude to this at any stage. That's not impartial journalism.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2017, 02:00:34 PM
What's wrong with SOS asking or H&C refusing? Neither H&C nor Breheny stated that O'shea did anything other than ask and neither claimed that there was any resentment or aggro of any sort as a result of O'Shea's request.
Dillon complained that he was being unfairly treated and that Andy was getting preferential treatment. He was pissed off but that didn't lead to 27 players demanding their resignation. H&C didn't say it did but you feel you know better than they do.
What had the allegations about the dodgy fundraising? What had that to do with the players and the pair of tulips?
It appears that Noel Howley who organises transport for some of the players had a barney with the management. We weren't told what the row was about or how it affected the relationship between players and management.
What about the team plans being left behind in the hotel?
Dumb and Dumber claimed that it was a player who left them behind. Why should the players blame the managers for this? Fact is it was the pair of them that forgot to bring the plans to the game but they knew no players was going to reply so they felt safe to say what they liked.
No need for that, Lar.
This isn't hoganstand.com.
Know what? You are right. I was intemperate at what I saw as another attempt by an old pro journalist stir up controversy again. I imagine that all Mayo posters would agree with me that we were sorry to see both Noel and Pat being forced out. If some s.o.b at county board level hadn't leaked the news of the players' request for a meeting with the board, none of this would have come to public notice we'd all have to find something else to row about.
Back in the good ol' days when Barney was still about, we had a discussion on the best Mayo team of all time and I had no problem about selecting Connelly and making him the captain as well. Not many may know this but Pateen is the player who made the most appearances for Mayo and don't forget he was an All-Star also. Both men gave good service to the county and didn't deserve humiliation of any sort.
I did not back the players out of blind allegiance to the cause but because I wasn't happy with their version of what happened during their time in charge. I knew we weren't getting the whole story butI also knew that the players would not give their side of what really happened so any charge that was levelled at any of them was not going to be contested.
I was still feeling sorry for them both until Breheny presented their side of the story. Nothing positive came from it and the general consensus of opinion in Mayo is that the pair of boyos were whinging and should grow up. I definitely agree with the majority view. I felt sympathy for them until I saw what they were up to with their 'expose.'
PS O'Shea should have known better and said nowt about the matter as it was only going to give Breheny and his likes more oxygen to keep making headline
Why the hate of journos? Should they only report the nice stories or something?
Quote from: Rudi on May 05, 2017, 11:26:48 AM
Amateur sportsman verses the big bad Independent. Breheny should have got the road long ago and be replaced by a young fresher gasun. Holmes and Connolly should have taken their beaten like real men, right or wrong this kind of stuff happens to us all in life. Crying like pansies makes them look weak.
This.
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
Why the hate of journos? Should they only report the nice stories or something?
Yep.
Like it or not, the Mayo managment drama was a MASSIVE story. It was not some manufactured story thought up by the media to sell papers. The press report on big stories. That is how it works. If this drama went on in Dublin or Kerry, they'd be all over that too. If their dumped managers were up for giving their version of events, the Indo would have fallen all over themselves to provide a sympathetic reporter to do the needful. If it wasn't the Indo, it would be some other media outlet leading the charge.
Anyone taking offense that this is all a big anti Mayo conspiracy on the part of Breheney or the Indo, is being a bit myopic and over sensitive imo. Yeah, it's all a massive pain the neck. Yeah, you wish it never happened. Yeah, their speaking out does no one any real good, other than putting another version of events out there. Yeah, you wish everyone would just move on. But who ever said being a GAA supporter was never going to get messy? C'est la vie !
Quote from: PW Nally on May 06, 2017, 02:08:41 AM
Quote from: Rudi on May 05, 2017, 11:26:48 AM
Amateur sportsman verses the big bad Independent. Breheny should have got the road long ago and be replaced by a young fresher gasun. Holmes and Connolly should have taken their beaten like real men, right or wrong this kind of stuff happens to us all in life. Crying like pansies makes them look weak.
This.
When the players get stuff off their chest that is bothering them, they are praised for their openess and honesty. But when a management team is dumped in controversial circumstances, they are crying pansies? Bit of a double standard there, no?
I've no time for Breheny. Journos like him should have been put out to pasture a long time ago. But H&C speaking out for the first time, was always going to be a big story. A sports editor wouldn't be doing his job, if he didn't roll out the journalistic red carpet to give them the platform that they needed or wanted to get what ever was bugging them, off their chest.
As I said at the time, there were plenty of rumours around Mayo and further afield regarding things that went on in the camp under Holmes & Connelly.
Rumours that made them out to be incompetent and out of touch with the players.
They're entitled to have their say to correct the record if they feel they've been maligned.
It was a messy state of affairs at the time. I had sympathy for the duo initially. Once the players turned on them, the game was up. Unfortunately the pair went to Breheny, of all people. The rest is history as they say. To be honest Aidan should know better. Instead of going to these events, which there will be journos making headlines out of every word he says perhaps he should decline in future. None of this furore would be brought up. Or go to the event and say nothing.
My final tuppence on the matter. Unless someone else brings it up!
Quote from: Jinxy on May 06, 2017, 11:44:59 AM
As I said at the time, there were plenty of rumours around Mayo and further afield regarding things that went on in the camp under Holmes & Connelly.
Rumours that made them out to be incompetent and out of touch with the players.
They're entitled to have their say to correct the record if they feel they've been maligned.
Yup, they are certainly entitled to have their say. I have gone to great lengths to say that I judged their statement on its merits and, IMO, they came up short. If I thought they had right on their side, I would say so.
No insult intended to anyone in particular but I think it's a bit rich for for those who have nothing to go by apart from Breheny's 'exposé' to start lecturing Mayo fans who take the players side.
There are quite a few Mayo posters here and I don't recall any of them backing H&C. THe general feeling in the county, in spite of what Syferus claims, is that it's time to move on. I read several articles in all three of the Mayo weeklies in the aftermath of the statement's release and not one solitary reporter took the managers' side.
I believe that any fair minded, rational and impartial reader would not spot irrelevancies, non-sequiturs and downright contradictions in what the managers' had to say.
BTW, I never claimed that the players were totally blameless either.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 06, 2017, 12:16:18 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 06, 2017, 11:44:59 AM
As I said at the time, there were plenty of rumours around Mayo and further afield regarding things that went on in the camp under Holmes & Connelly.
Rumours that made them out to be incompetent and out of touch with the players.
They're entitled to have their say to correct the record if they feel they've been maligned.
Yup, they are certainly entitled to have their say. I have gone to great lengths to say that I judged their statement on its merits and, IMO, they came up short. If I thought they had right on their side, I would say so.
No insult intended to anyone in particular but I think it's a bit rich for for those who have nothing to go by apart from Breheny's 'exposé' to start lecturing Mayo fans who take the players side.
There are quite a few Mayo posters here and I don't recall any of them backing H&C. THe general feeling in the county, in spite of what Syferus claims, is that it's time to move on. I read several articles in all three of the Mayo weeklies in the aftermath of the statement's release and not one solitary reporter took the managers' side.
I believe that any fair minded, rational and impartial reader would not spot irrelevancies, non-sequiturs and downright contradictions in what the managers' had to say.
BTW, I never claimed that the players were totally blameless either.
Local journalists are fecked if players start refusing to do interviews. Why would they want to kick a hornets' nest when H&C aren't around but the players are? Trying to prove a point by using anecdotal information from a group that's naturally biased against speaking up.
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth saying you supported them speaking up only to turn against them because they didn't tow the party line.
Finding this conversation tedious!
The players did not buy into H & C!
There was no way that H & C were going to continue after the squad did not want them.
They were asked to leave quietly, they chose otherwise.
I don't know who is wrong or who is right.
There is probably and mixture of wrong and right with both groups.
In a group players hold the power. That's who the fans go to see. They are praised in victory and Management are vilified in defeat.
That is the nature of the Beast!
This happens up and down the length of the country.
There is not a club or county team that does not have a player or Manager who feels aggrieved at some time in their career.
Players, Managers etc come and go. The Clubs (hopefully) and County goes on and on!
Why is it stil being talked about? Galway hurlers had something similar around the same time and moved on from it. Surely this year's championship is all that matters for Mayo. It might be the last chance.
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 02:14:18 PM
Why is it stil being talked about? Galway hurlers had something similar around the same time and moved on from it. Surely this year's championship is all that matters for Mayo. It might be the last chance.
It's being talked about because this is mainly a football forum dominated by Ulster posters! Hurling discussions hardly exist on this board!
Harsh, but true!
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 04:18:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 02:14:18 PM
Why is it stil being talked about? Galway hurlers had something similar around the same time and moved on from it. Surely this year's championship is all that matters for Mayo. It might be the last chance.
It's being talked about because this is mainly a football forum dominated by Ulster posters! Hurling discussions hardly exist on this board!
Harsh, but true!
Syferus isn't from Ulster. He loves this thread.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 06, 2017, 08:46:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 04:18:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 02:14:18 PM
Why is it stil being talked about? Galway hurlers had something similar around the same time and moved on from it. Surely this year's championship is all that matters for Mayo. It might be the last chance.
It's being talked about because this is mainly a football forum dominated by Ulster posters! Hurling discussions hardly exist on this board!
Harsh, but true!
Syferus isn't from Ulster. He loves this thread.
It's amusing to watch Mayo lads engage in the head in the ground stuff some of the Ulsterites do. Ye do yerselves no favours trying to make out that the players are whiter than white when anyone looking at it objectively can see otherwise. I would agree with most of what Bunker said.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 01:56:04 PM
Finding this conversation tedious!
The players did not buy into H & C!
There was no way that H & C were going to continue after the squad did not want them.
They were asked to leave quietly, they chose otherwise.
I don't know who is wrong or who is right.
There is probably and mixture of wrong and right with both groups.
In a group players hold the power. That's who the fans go to see. They are praised in victory and Management are vilified in defeat.
That is the nature of the Beast!
This happens up and down the length of the country.
There is not a club or county team that does not have a player or Manager who feels aggrieved at some time in their career.
Players, Managers etc come and go. The Clubs (hopefully) and County goes on and on!
I suppose to be fair to Noel and Pat they did dig their heels in when the story broke but that would be most people's reaction. There is no way of telling what might have happened if some fecker, on the board or close to it, hadn't spilled the beans about the players' request for a meeting.
No guarantee that Noel and Pat would have stepped down quietly but the likelihood is that they would given that they has no feasible option. Perhaps if Keith and Cillian had the proposed meeting with the CB, they could well have been a different outcome. Who knows and at this stage who cares? ( Only Syferus of course!)
I know there was deep dissatisfaction in the camp because the CB was trying to pare back expenses that Horan had forced them to accept. There were lots of off-the-ball incidents at the time that didn't make for a happy relationship between players and management and there is nothing than can be done about it now. Pity Aido didn't keep his thoughts to himself even if he was feeling thick about what had been said about him but it should now be a case of all minds on the championship and leave the past where it belongs- in the past.
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
He did neither. He fell because their feet got tangled up but the ref had seen a foul a split second earlier where the defender had his hand stretched out to prevent O'Shea getting by him. Unfortunately, the RTE camera switched focus as the ball was sent in towards the goalmouth. But you get a fleeting second the two boys preparing to jostle before the camera honed in on the spot where the ball was going to land. A harsh decision but that was the ref's prerogative.
None of the effin' experts who claim to have 20/20 vision passed any remark about David Coldrick leaving the sideline and standing off to one side with a group of Fermanagh defenders. Now no prizes for guessing why he did that and it wasn't that he was asking them if they were on for a few pints after the game either.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
Dermot Earley
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 06, 2017, 11:42:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Na
me me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
He did neither. He fell because their feet got tangled up but the ref had seen a foul a split second earlier where the defender had his hand stretched out to prevent O'Shea getting by him. Unfortunately, the RTE camera switched focus as the ball was sent in towards the goalmouth. But you get a fleeting second the two boys preparing to jostle before the camera honed in on the spot where the ball was going to land. A harsh decision but that was the ref's prerogative.
None of the effin' experts who claim to have 20/20 vision passed any remark about David Coldrick leaving the sideline and standing off to one side with a group of Fermanagh defenders. Now no prizes for guessing why he did that and it wasn't that he was asking them if they were on for a few pints after the game either.
ROFLMAO 😁
And there's you talking about the importance of "rational, fair minded and impartial" readers of newspaper articles. Physician, heal thyself !
Quote from: Beffs on May 06, 2017, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 06, 2017, 11:42:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Na
me me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
He did neither. He fell because their feet got tangled up but the ref had seen a foul a split second earlier where the defender had his hand stretched out to prevent O'Shea getting by him. Unfortunately, the RTE camera switched focus as the ball was sent in towards the goalmouth. But you get a fleeting second the two boys preparing to jostle before the camera honed in on the spot where the ball was going to land. A harsh decision but that was the ref's prerogative.
None of the effin' experts who claim to have 20/20 vision passed any remark about David Coldrick leaving the sideline and standing off to one side with a group of Fermanagh defenders. Now no prizes for guessing why he did that and it wasn't that he was asking them if they were on for a few pints after the game either.
ROFLMAO 😁
And there's you talking about the importance of "rational, fair minded and impartial" readers of newspaper articles. Physician, heal thyself !
Then explain why David Coldrick left his post and ran onto the field to have a chat with a few Fermanagh defenders while the agro was going on all around them....
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
My issue with a manager and player coming out and compounding matters by telling bare faced lies when they should have held their hands up and admitted they did wrong.
O'Shea and Rochford came out in the aftermath and made barefaced lies denying it was a dive when it was clear as day. O'Shea got away very lightly compared to McCann the year before, there were calls for McCann to make a public apology for what he did. O'Shea and his manager came out and told porkies and there was very little backlash to it.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 06, 2017, 11:42:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
He did neither. He fell because their feet got tangled up but the ref had seen a foul a split second earlier where the defender had his hand stretched out to prevent O'Shea getting by him. Unfortunately, the RTE camera switched focus as the ball was sent in towards the goalmouth. But you get a fleeting second the two boys preparing to jostle before the camera honed in on the spot where the ball was going to land. A harsh decision but that was the ref's prerogative.
None of the effin' experts who claim to have 20/20 vision passed any remark about David Coldrick leaving the sideline and standing off to one side with a group of Fermanagh defenders. Now no prizes for guessing why he did that and it wasn't that he was asking them if they were on for a few pints after the game either.
He dived and cheated, it was clear as day. That's the sort of response that makes me lose a lot of respect for Mayo fans, some introspection wouldn't go astray, you'll be the very ones to get outraged when you're on the receiving end of a bad decision but refuse to acknowledge when you've done something underhand.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 12:11:52 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
My issue with a manager and player coming out and compounding matters by telling bare faced lies when they should have held their hands up and admitted they did wrong.
O'Shea and Rochford came out in the aftermath and made barefaced lies denying it was a dive when it was clear as day. O'Shea got away very lightly compared to McCann the year before, there were calls for McCann to make a public apology for what he did. O'Shea and his manager came out and told porkies and there was very little backlash to it.
Manager and player come out and don't admit wrong doing - Shock horror! Never happened before?
Of course you want the lads to be fools and admit fault! That would have solved everything?
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 12:34:07 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 12:11:52 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
My issue with a manager and player coming out and compounding matters by telling bare faced lies when they should have held their hands up and admitted they did wrong.
O'Shea and Rochford came out in the aftermath and made barefaced lies denying it was a dive when it was clear as day. O'Shea got away very lightly compared to McCann the year before, there were calls for McCann to make a public apology for what he did. O'Shea and his manager came out and told porkies and there was very little backlash to it.
Manager and player come out and don't admit wrong doing - Shock horror! Never happened before?
Of course you want the lads to be fools and admit fault! That would have solved everything?
I would have expected a bit of honesty rather than telling bare faced lies. It's as obvious and clear a bit of cheating as you would come across and trying to deny that is just insulting. You may not think it but acknowledgement of it might have been some solace to Fermanagh. The fact he went out and conned the referee and despite all the damning evidence against him as well as knowing truly that he cheated, came out and denied any wrongdoing is very insulting.
Not a patch on hairgate.
Quote from: Syferus on May 07, 2017, 01:54:45 AM
Not a patch on hairgate.
Hardly, O'Shea's dive had a huge impact on the result.
All McCann achieved was embarrassing himself in front of the nation. Thankfully neither McCann or the Tyrone management team sought to say the reaction was justified and Harte publicly said McCann was wrong.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 02:07:14 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 07, 2017, 01:54:45 AM
Not a patch on hairgate.
Hardly, O'Shea's dive had a huge impact on the result.
All McCann achieved was embarrassing himself in front of the nation. Thankfully neither McCann or the Tyrone management team sought to say the reaction was justified and Harte publicly said McCann was wrong.
Haha, you're trying to rewrite history as usual. Harte never said what mccann did was wrong. He said if mccann had the chance to relive the incident he might act differently and he also said that Darren Hughes had to share the blame for the incident which was patently ridiculous. No tyrone person came out publicly and said 100% that what mccann did was wrong which is embarrassing and pathetic.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/tyrone/tyrone-manager-mickey-harte-claims-darren-hughes-and-tiernan-mccann-share-blame-over-dive-incident-31441545.html
This reaction was in complete contrast to how kerry people reacted to aidan omahoneys dive. A number of ex kerry players came out publicly to say he was completely wrong and the dive was embarrassing.
If we want to talk about a dive then lets talk about the one that directly impacted the biggest game of the year...
http://www.independent.ie/incoming/article35116013.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/7BlackCard1.jpg (http://www.independent.ie/incoming/article35116013.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/7BlackCard1.jpg)
Quote from: lenny on May 07, 2017, 07:03:00 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 02:07:14 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 07, 2017, 01:54:45 AM
Not a patch on hairgate.
Hardly, O'Shea's dive had a huge impact on the result.
All McCann achieved was embarrassing himself in front of the nation. Thankfully neither McCann or the Tyrone management team sought to say the reaction was justified and Harte publicly said McCann was wrong.
Haha, you're trying to rewrite history as usual. Harte never said what mccann did was wrong. He said if mccann had the chance to relive the incident he might act differently and he also said that Darren Hughes had to share the blame for the incident which was patently ridiculous. No tyrone person came out publicly and said 100% that what mccann did was wrong which is embarrassing and pathetic.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/tyrone/tyrone-manager-mickey-harte-claims-darren-hughes-and-tiernan-mccann-share-blame-over-dive-incident-31441545.html
This reaction was in complete contrast to how kerry people reacted to aidan omahoneys dive. A number of ex kerry players came out publicly to say he was completely wrong and the dive was embarrassing.
I think that's what you are doing, Harte quite clearly states McCann was in the wrong. You don't say someone made a mistake and would act in a different manner again without implying they were in the wrong. Hughes was silly for doing what he did but there's no doubting McCann embarrassed himself. The problem McCann had was that he was from Tyrone and the backlash to such an act was unprecedented. He was having public apologies and bans requested, less than 12 months later you had lads hiding behind their couch in order not to criticise Aidan O'Shea for a piece of cheating that knocked Fermanagh out of the Championship. The issue Tyrone people had was the imbalance of the reporting, some people went to town on McCann because he played for Tyrone when they failed to act similarly to similar facts in the past and subsequently in the future.
Moving on your second lie, I don't know any Tyrone person who justiifed what McCann did. I saw plenty of acknowledgement from Tyrone players in the past and present about McCann and what he did was wrong. They did defend him on the scrutiny he came under as opposed to others who had acted similarly.
Ricey:
"If you chat to any Gael in Tyrone, they didn't agree with what Tiernan did but at the same time, he's a young fella. He made a mistake," McMenamin told RTÉ's Saturday Sport.
"He did do it, and he should be punished but him being punished now when there have been other indiscretions throughout the year that went unpunished makes it feel a wee bit unjust.
Sean Cavanagh
"There have been things that shouldn't have happened - like the thing with Tiernan (McCann) - but these things happen across the board.
Peter Canavan
Tiernan McCann is aware of this. Yes, he made a mistake. We all have on the field of play, but his background is solid and his reasons for playing the game he loves are genuine as he endeavours to do his very best in a Tyrone jersey.
There are just some of the examples of Tyrone people coming out and acknowledging McCann did wrong and dived.
It's a shame we never got an acknowledgement from yourself on Enda Lynn's dive that got a Down player sent off in the same year, it seems your faux outrage is as it is.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 01:20:42 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 12:34:07 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 12:11:52 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
My issue with a manager and player coming out and compounding matters by telling bare faced lies when they should have held their hands up and admitted they did wrong.
O'Shea and Rochford came out in the aftermath and made barefaced lies denying it was a dive when it was clear as day. O'Shea got away very lightly compared to McCann the year before, there were calls for McCann to make a public apology for what he did. O'Shea and his manager came out and told porkies and there was very little backlash to it.
Manager and player come out and don't admit wrong doing - Shock horror! Never happened before?
Of course you want the lads to be fools and admit fault! That would have solved everything?
I would have expected a bit of honesty rather than telling bare faced lies. It's as obvious and clear a bit of cheating as you would come across and trying to deny that is just insulting. You may not think it but acknowledgement of it might have been some solace to Fermanagh. The fact he went out and conned the referee and despite all the damning evidence against him as well as knowing truly that he cheated, came out and denied any wrongdoing is very insulting.
Looking forward to you producing one piece of evidence. This I am looking forward to! Like anything else I asked you, you just hide behind rhetorical non sense statements.
Quote from: Syferus on May 06, 2017, 11:45:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
Dermot Earley
I have great respect for DE and don't want to go throwing stones. But I'm sure there was a moment in his career where he bent the rules to gain an advantage.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 03:03:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 01:20:42 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 12:34:07 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 12:11:52 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 06, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 06, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Are Rochford and O'Shea still lying about Aidan O'Shea's dive last year?
He dived, he cheated to get advantage. Name me a player who never cheated to get advantage?
Looking forward to this answer!
My issue with a manager and player coming out and compounding matters by telling bare faced lies when they should have held their hands up and admitted they did wrong.
O'Shea and Rochford came out in the aftermath and made barefaced lies denying it was a dive when it was clear as day. O'Shea got away very lightly compared to McCann the year before, there were calls for McCann to make a public apology for what he did. O'Shea and his manager came out and told porkies and there was very little backlash to it.
Manager and player come out and don't admit wrong doing - Shock horror! Never happened before?
Of course you want the lads to be fools and admit fault! That would have solved everything?
I would have expected a bit of honesty rather than telling bare faced lies. It's as obvious and clear a bit of cheating as you would come across and trying to deny that is just insulting. You may not think it but acknowledgement of it might have been some solace to Fermanagh. The fact he went out and conned the referee and despite all the damning evidence against him as well as knowing truly that he cheated, came out and denied any wrongdoing is very insulting.
Looking forward to you producing one piece of evidence. This I am looking forward to! Like anything else I asked you, you just hide behind rhetorical non sense statements.
The damning evidence against them is the replays of his blatant dive that won a penalty, it doesn't get anymore conclusive that that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmd3O2SBKiI
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 03:51:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmd3O2SBKiI
You call that conclusive! One Shitty angle from a distance and behind and another clip that starts as O'Shea starts to fall. jez, you see what you want to see!
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 04:31:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 03:51:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmd3O2SBKiI
You call that conclusive! One Shitty angle from a distance and behind and another clip that starts as O'Shea starts to fall. jez, you see what you want to see!
Are you seriously contending one of the most blatant dives you're likely to see? Some introspection wouldn't go amiss.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 10:16:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 07, 2017, 07:03:00 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 02:07:14 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 07, 2017, 01:54:45 AM
Not a patch on hairgate.
Hardly, O'Shea's dive had a huge impact on the result.
All McCann achieved was embarrassing himself in front of the nation. Thankfully neither McCann or the Tyrone management team sought to say the reaction was justified and Harte publicly said McCann was wrong.
Haha, you're trying to rewrite history as usual. Harte never said what mccann did was wrong. He said if mccann had the chance to relive the incident he might act differently and he also said that Darren Hughes had to share the blame for the incident which was patently ridiculous. No tyrone person came out publicly and said 100% that what mccann did was wrong which is embarrassing and pathetic.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/tyrone/tyrone-manager-mickey-harte-claims-darren-hughes-and-tiernan-mccann-share-blame-over-dive-incident-31441545.html
This reaction was in complete contrast to how kerry people reacted to aidan omahoneys dive. A number of ex kerry players came out publicly to say he was completely wrong and the dive was embarrassing.
I think that's what you are doing, Harte quite clearly states McCann was in the wrong. You don't say someone made a mistake and would act in a different manner again without implying they were in the wrong. Hughes was silly for doing what he did but there's no doubting McCann embarrassed himself. The problem McCann had was that he was from Tyrone and the backlash to such an act was unprecedented. He was having public apologies and bans requested, less than 12 months later you had lads hiding behind their couch in order not to criticise Aidan O'Shea for a piece of cheating that knocked Fermanagh out of the Championship. The issue Tyrone people had was the imbalance of the reporting, some people went to town on McCann because he played for Tyrone when they failed to act similarly to similar facts in the past and subsequently in the future.
Moving on your second lie, I don't know any Tyrone person who justiifed what McCann did. I saw plenty of acknowledgement from Tyrone players in the past and present about McCann and what he did was wrong. They did defend him on the scrutiny he came under as opposed to others who had acted similarly.
Ricey:
"If you chat to any Gael in Tyrone, they didn't agree with what Tiernan did but at the same time, he's a young fella. He made a mistake," McMenamin told RTÉ's Saturday Sport.
"He did do it, and he should be punished but him being punished now when there have been other indiscretions throughout the year that went unpunished makes it feel a wee bit unjust.
Sean Cavanagh
"There have been things that shouldn't have happened - like the thing with Tiernan (McCann) - but these things happen across the board.
Peter Canavan
Tiernan McCann is aware of this. Yes, he made a mistake. We all have on the field of play, but his background is solid and his reasons for playing the game he loves are genuine as he endeavours to do his very best in a Tyrone jersey.
There are just some of the examples of Tyrone people coming out and acknowledging McCann did wrong and dived.
It's a shame we never got an acknowledgement from yourself on Enda Lynn's dive that got a Down player sent off in the same year, it seems your faux outrage is as it is.
Number one - if enda lynn definitely dived I would be the first to condemn him. His incident is completely ambiguous, nobody can really say for sure except for the 2 players involved. Number 2 - all those quotes from ex tyrone players try to make light of the mccann cheating and say it was just a small mistake. They also add the caveat that he is young and in hindsight would act differently. That is in total contrast to the way ex kerry players were ashamed by the actions of omahony and vehemently said so. Number 3 - nowhere does micky harte explicitly say that mccann did anything wrong, all he says is that given the same situation again he might act differently. Implied there is that he might also act the same without harte thinking any differently of him. He also compounds his pathetic inability to call out mccanns cheating by trying to lump blame onto darren hughes.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 05:03:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 04:31:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 03:51:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmd3O2SBKiI
You call that conclusive! One Shitty angle from a distance and behind and another clip that starts as O'Shea starts to fall. jez, you see what you want to see!
Are you seriously contending one of the most blatant dives you're likely to see? Some introspection wouldn't go amiss.
Unlike you i was at the game! I was over near where the incident happened. You are basing your analysis on two shitty clips from the Television. Even I who was close could not say for definite if he was fouled or not. But hey, you have your mind made up! In the scheme of things it does not matter what two nobodies think! Thank God!
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 05:03:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 04:31:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 03:51:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmd3O2SBKiI
You call that conclusive! One Shitty angle from a distance and behind and another clip that starts as O'Shea starts to fall. jez, you see what you want to see!
Are you seriously contending one of the most blatant dives you're likely to see? Some introspection wouldn't go amiss.
Unlike you i was at the game! I was over near where the incident happened. You are basing your analysis on two shitty clips from the Television. Even I who was close could not say for definite if he was fouled or not. But hey, you have your mind made up! In the scheme of things it does not matter what two nobodies think! Thank God!
Unlike you, I am not denying something that clearly happened with sufficient evidence to verify that.
You can deny it all you want but it's there clear as day and I think you are either blind or completely blinded in bias that you can't bring yourself to call a dive, a dive.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 05:03:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 04:31:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 03:51:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmd3O2SBKiI
You call that conclusive! One Shitty angle from a distance and behind and another clip that starts as O'Shea starts to fall. jez, you see what you want to see!
Are you seriously contending one of the most blatant dives you're likely to see? Some introspection wouldn't go amiss.
Unlike you i was at the game! I was over near where the incident happened. You are basing your analysis on two shitty clips from the Television. Even I who was close could not say for definite if he was fouled or not. But hey, you have your mind made up! In the scheme of things it does not matter what two nobodies think! Thank God!
Unlike you, I am not denying something that clearly happened with sufficient evidence to verify that.
You can deny it all you want but it's there clear as day and I think you are either blind or completely blinded in bias that you can't bring yourself to call a dive, a dive.
I am not biased, just not sure if it was a foul or not. You think you are sure it was a foul based on poor evidence. You don't seem to like Mayo and you have good reason. They have caused you a lot of recent pain.
Quote from: lenny on May 07, 2017, 08:09:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 10:16:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 07, 2017, 07:03:00 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 02:07:14 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 07, 2017, 01:54:45 AM
Not a patch on hairgate.
Hardly, O'Shea's dive had a huge impact on the result.
All McCann achieved was embarrassing himself in front of the nation. Thankfully neither McCann or the Tyrone management team sought to say the reaction was justified and Harte publicly said McCann was wrong.
Haha, you're trying to rewrite history as usual. Harte never said what mccann did was wrong. He said if mccann had the chance to relive the incident he might act differently and he also said that Darren Hughes had to share the blame for the incident which was patently ridiculous. No tyrone person came out publicly and said 100% that what mccann did was wrong which is embarrassing and pathetic.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/tyrone/tyrone-manager-mickey-harte-claims-darren-hughes-and-tiernan-mccann-share-blame-over-dive-incident-31441545.html
This reaction was in complete contrast to how kerry people reacted to aidan omahoneys dive. A number of ex kerry players came out publicly to say he was completely wrong and the dive was embarrassing.
I think that's what you are doing, Harte quite clearly states McCann was in the wrong. You don't say someone made a mistake and would act in a different manner again without implying they were in the wrong. Hughes was silly for doing what he did but there's no doubting McCann embarrassed himself. The problem McCann had was that he was from Tyrone and the backlash to such an act was unprecedented. He was having public apologies and bans requested, less than 12 months later you had lads hiding behind their couch in order not to criticise Aidan O'Shea for a piece of cheating that knocked Fermanagh out of the Championship. The issue Tyrone people had was the imbalance of the reporting, some people went to town on McCann because he played for Tyrone when they failed to act similarly to similar facts in the past and subsequently in the future.
Moving on your second lie, I don't know any Tyrone person who justiifed what McCann did. I saw plenty of acknowledgement from Tyrone players in the past and present about McCann and what he did was wrong. They did defend him on the scrutiny he came under as opposed to others who had acted similarly.
Ricey:
"If you chat to any Gael in Tyrone, they didn't agree with what Tiernan did but at the same time, he's a young fella. He made a mistake," McMenamin told RTÉ's Saturday Sport.
"He did do it, and he should be punished but him being punished now when there have been other indiscretions throughout the year that went unpunished makes it feel a wee bit unjust.
Sean Cavanagh
"There have been things that shouldn't have happened - like the thing with Tiernan (McCann) - but these things happen across the board.
Peter Canavan
Tiernan McCann is aware of this. Yes, he made a mistake. We all have on the field of play, but his background is solid and his reasons for playing the game he loves are genuine as he endeavours to do his very best in a Tyrone jersey.
There are just some of the examples of Tyrone people coming out and acknowledging McCann did wrong and dived.
It's a shame we never got an acknowledgement from yourself on Enda Lynn's dive that got a Down player sent off in the same year, it seems your faux outrage is as it is.
Number one - if enda lynn definitely dived I would be the first to condemn him. His incident is completely ambiguous, nobody can really say for sure except for the 2 players involved. Number 2 - all those quotes from ex tyrone players try to make light of the mccann cheating and say it was just a small mistake. They also add the caveat that he is young and in hindsight would act differently. That is in total contrast to the way ex kerry players were ashamed by the actions of omahony and vehemently said so. Number 3 - nowhere does micky harte explicitly say that mccann did anything wrong, all he says is that given the same situation again he might act differently. Implied there is that he might also act the same without harte thinking any differently of him. He also compounds his pathetic inability to call out mccanns cheating by trying to lump blame onto darren hughes.
I think the Tyrone camp had good cause for grievance in terms of the hysteria around it. Rory Beggan wasn't spoken about after that game after trying the same thing to get Ronan O'Neill the line. Michael Shields was involved in a very similar incident weeks before, Aidan O'Mahony about 5 years back - none of them were called to be banned, none of the them were asked to come out and make a public apology. Aidan O'Shea cheated to put Fermanagh out of the Championship last season, the RTE lads were hiding behind the couch at the thought of having to call O'Shea out of it. It's about context, McCann did wrong, he embarrassed himself and Tyrone and I'm sure he regrets it given the furore it caused but there was never a denial that what he did was wrong - he got a serious amount of stick - he got an unprecedented suspension, he had pundits labelling him a disgrace and calling for him to publicly apologise. Why hasn't similar hysteria followed similar actions? O'Shea's one, for instance, had far more sever consequences for Fermanagh and let us not forget O'Shea is a repeat offender - ask Pascal McConnell about his diving - yet media figures were stumbling over each other calling for people to go easy on him.
Maybe, you can tell us what Pat O'Shea said about Aidan O'Mahony when he dived to get Donnacha O'Connor sent off? Maybe you can back it up with quotes of the widespread condemnation of him from Kerry as you claimed happened because I remember absolutely none of the sort. Like Enda Lynn, you are willing to condone cheating if the jersey is right.
Harte explicitly states that McCann regretted his action and that he made a mistake, he doesn't deny he dive.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 09:10:13 PM
I am not biased, just not sure if it was a foul or not. You think you are sure it was a foul based on poor evidence. You don't seem to like Mayo and you have good reason. They have caused you a lot of recent pain.
The fact that you are even arguing this point, shows just how biased you are. It was as blatant a piece of diving as you'd see outside of an Olympic Pool. End of. It's got nothing to do with having an anti or pro Mayo bias & everything to do with having a pair of eyes and at least one functioning brain cell.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 09:10:13 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 05:03:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2017, 04:31:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on May 07, 2017, 03:51:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmd3O2SBKiI
You call that conclusive! One Shitty angle from a distance and behind and another clip that starts as O'Shea starts to fall. jez, you see what you want to see!
Are you seriously contending one of the most blatant dives you're likely to see? Some introspection wouldn't go amiss.
Unlike you i was at the game! I was over near where the incident happened. You are basing your analysis on two shitty clips from the Television. Even I who was close could not say for definite if he was fouled or not. But hey, you have your mind made up! In the scheme of things it does not matter what two nobodies think! Thank God!
Unlike you, I am not denying something that clearly happened with sufficient evidence to verify that.
You can deny it all you want but it's there clear as day and I think you are either blind or completely blinded in bias that you can't bring yourself to call a dive, a dive.
I am not biased, just not sure if it was a foul or not. You think you are sure it was a foul based on poor evidence. You don't seem to like Mayo and you have good reason. They have caused you a lot of recent pain.
This is a non-starter of a debate, it was clearly a dive, absolutely 100% clear and cut dive from O'Shea. Anyone with a pair of eyes and sense of impartiality can see that. O'Shea and Rochford let themselves down even more by coming out after and denying it even happened when it clearly did, if they hadn't shown Fermanagh enough disrespect as it was already.