Negativity around current Championship Structure and Alternatives

Started by SouthOfThe Bann, May 28, 2024, 11:07:35 AM

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Rossfan

Ah stop.
Next thing ye'll want Ulster winners to go straight to the Final ::)
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Armagh18

Quote from: statto on May 28, 2024, 11:50:01 AM
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on May 28, 2024, 11:07:35 AMA lot of negativity around the current championship format among the media in recent weeks.

I'm wondering would a open draw championship with a back door work?

Round 1 - Open Draw

Round 2 - 8 losers play each other in round two (losers round) and 8 winners play each other in round 2 (winners round).

Round 3 - The 4 winners from the winners round progress to the quarter finals whilst the 4 losers from the winners round play the 4 winners from the losers round. (Slightly confusing but bare with me)

Round 4 - Quarter Finals

See below how it might play out

Round 1
Derry 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Armagh 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Dublin 3-17 v 1-12 Cavan
Kerry 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan
Mayo 0-18 v 0-07 Roscommon
Galway 2-19 v 0-04 Meath
Tyrone 0-13 v 0-10 Louth
Donegal 0-17 v 0-09 Cork

** 8 Winners play off and 8 losers play off

Round 2 - Losers round
Cavan 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Monaghan 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Roscommon 3-17 v 1-12 Meath
Cork 0-19 v 0-11 Louth

** Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork progress to play the losers of the winners round

Round 2 - Winners round
Kerry 1-16 v 0-08 Dublin
Galway 2-09 v 0-11 Mayo
Donegal 3-17 v 1-12 Tyrone
Derry 0-19 v 0-11 Armagh

** Kerry Galway Donegal and Derry progress onto quarter finals.
** Dublin Mayo Tyrone and Armagh play off with Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork in round of 12.

Round 3
Dublin 1-16 v 0-08 Cavan
Cork 2-09 v 0-11 Tyrone
Armagh 3-17 v 1-12 Roscommon
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan

** Dublin Cork Armagh and Mayo progress to quarter finals

Round 4 Quarter Finals
Kerry 3-17 v 1-12 Armagh
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Derry
Dublin 0-14 v 0-11 Galway
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Cork

Round 5 Semi Finals
Mayo 3-17 v 1-12 Kerry
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Dublin

Round 6 Final
Donegal 0-18 v 0-17 Mayo (AET)

I think it this is a decent system where everyone has a second chance but no dead rubbers or meaningless games and every game means something.

Not bad at all,  reduction in games be an issue though for the GAA. Would have to increase prices further to compensate.
If all those games were meaningful/competitive you'd end up with far better total attendances imo.

AustinPowers

Quote from: Rossfan on May 28, 2024, 02:13:34 PMAh stop.
Next thing ye'll want Ulster winners to go straight to the Final ::)

But I didn't  say Connacht winners had to play  an extra couple of games   




One extra maybe  ;D

SouthOfThe Bann

Quote from: Rossfan on May 28, 2024, 12:42:19 PM
Quote from: statto on May 28, 2024, 11:50:01 AM
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on May 28, 2024, 11:07:35 AMA lot of negativity around the current championship format among the media in recent weeks.

I'm wondering would a open draw championship with a back door work?

Round 1 - Open Draw

Round 2 - 8 losers play each other in round two (losers round) and 8 winners play each other in round 2 (winners round).

Round 3 - The 4 winners from the winners round progress to the quarter finals whilst the 4 losers from the winners round play the 4 winners from the losers round. (Slightly confusing but bare with me)

Round 4 - Quarter Finals

See below how it might play out

Round 1
Derry 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Armagh 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Dublin 3-17 v 1-12 Cavan
Kerry 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan
Mayo 0-18 v 0-07 Roscommon
Galway 2-19 v 0-04 Meath
Tyrone 0-13 v 0-10 Louth
Donegal 0-17 v 0-09 Cork

** 8 Winners play off and 8 losers play off

Round 2 - Losers round
Cavan 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Monaghan 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Roscommon 3-17 v 1-12 Meath
Cork 0-19 v 0-11 Louth

** Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork progress to play the losers of the winners round

Round 2 - Winners round
Kerry 1-16 v 0-08 Dublin
Galway 2-09 v 0-11 Mayo
Donegal 3-17 v 1-12 Tyrone
Derry 0-19 v 0-11 Armagh

** Kerry Galway Donegal and Derry progress onto quarter finals.
** Dublin Mayo Tyrone and Armagh play off with Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork in round of 12.

Round 3
Dublin 1-16 v 0-08 Cavan
Cork 2-09 v 0-11 Tyrone
Armagh 3-17 v 1-12 Roscommon
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan

** Dublin Cork Armagh and Mayo progress to quarter finals

Round 4 Quarter Finals
Kerry 3-17 v 1-12 Armagh
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Derry
Dublin 0-14 v 0-11 Galway
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Cork

Round 5 Semi Finals
Mayo 3-17 v 1-12 Kerry
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Dublin

Round 6 Final
Donegal 0-18 v 0-17 Mayo (AET)

I think it this is a decent system where everyone has a second chance but no dead rubbers or meaningless games and every game means something.

Not bad at all,  reduction in games be an issue though for the GAA. Would have to increase prices further to compensate.

Would be 27 AI matches instead of 35 under the present system.
Why does round 1 have to be "open draw" ?
It wouldn't be as Provincial Champions would be seeded and couldn't draw a team they beat in a Provincial Final.
They'd probably put the 8 Finalists in 1 pot anyway.
However this is a subject for the long winter nights.



Yeah wouldn't have to be an open draw; could seed the provincial champions and next 4 places league teams.

SouthOfThe Bann

Quote from: weareros on May 28, 2024, 01:52:21 PMPundits go on about only 4 being eliminated but a week later another 4 go, and the week after that another 4. It will spring into
life shortly. The jeopardy is on the horizon.


Yeah I actually quite like this current competition format but all the negativity is beginning to wane my enthusiasm for it.

Everybody was giving out about the 10k in Croke Park because it fitted their agenda.

But never mention the full houses in Ballybofey and Iniskeen.

Majority rules at the end of the day though and the majority don't seem to be in favor if this format.

Armagh18

Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on May 28, 2024, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: weareros on May 28, 2024, 01:52:21 PMPundits go on about only 4 being eliminated but a week later another 4 go, and the week after that another 4. It will spring into
life shortly. The jeopardy is on the horizon.


Yeah I actually quite like this current competition format but all the negativity is beginning to wane my enthusiasm for it.

Everybody was giving out about the 10k in Croke Park because it fitted their agenda.

But never mention the full houses in Ballybofey and Iniskeen.

Majority rules at the end of the day though and the majority don't seem to be in favor if this format.
Clearly that game shouldn't have been in Croke Park. Theres probably more positives than negatives, but still issues to be addressed with this format. I'd prefer straight knock out tbh.

Sportacus

You can talk about structures all day, but the coaching tactics are so god awful that you'll be very lucky to see a good game. May as well tune in for the semifinal and final.  Most of the rest of the games are just cat and mouse nonsense.

SouthOfThe Bann

Quote from: Sportacus on May 28, 2024, 02:43:19 PMYou can talk about structures all day, but the coaching tactics are so god awful that you'll be very lucky to see a good game. May as well tune in for the semifinal and final.  Most of the rest of the games are just cat and mouse nonsense.

Tyrone Donegal was a joy to watch I though.

Cant but admire the conditioning of the Donegal players.

Whilst there are some terrible games, we love to jump on the bandwagon of criticizing Gaelic football without looking at each game individually.

I've seen some brilliant games this year personally, and some terrible ones as with any sport; but there's definitely been more games I've watched where I've came away thinking that was an enjoyable  watch.

Sportacus

Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on May 28, 2024, 02:50:24 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on May 28, 2024, 02:43:19 PMYou can talk about structures all day, but the coaching tactics are so god awful that you'll be very lucky to see a good game. May as well tune in for the semifinal and final.  Most of the rest of the games are just cat and mouse nonsense.

Tyrone Donegal was a joy to watch I though.

Cant but admire the conditioning of the Donegal players.

Whilst there are some terrible games, we love to jump on the bandwagon of criticizing Gaelic football without looking at each game individually.

I've seen some brilliant games this year personally, and some terrible ones as with any sport; but there's definitely been more games I've watched where I've came away thinking that was an enjoyable  watch.
That's good, I'm genuinely glad to hear it. I'm sure Louth supporters enjoyed their day as well, and so on.  But there is so much dross, all caused by the coaching, nothing wrong with the rules. Two good semifinals and final in front of a packed Croke Park will end the season well hopefully. But there has to be some reflection on the overall entertainment value of the sport.  It's dying a death in my opinion.

armaghniac

Quote from: lurganblue on May 28, 2024, 01:21:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 28, 2024, 11:48:24 AMThe fall in attendances are actually incredible in the past 5-10 years, there are too many matches with nothing on the line at high prices in an inflation/cost of living crisis.

So many big staidums now and they forgot to keep the supporters onside

What is needed is competition. Someone noted that Celtic park in Derry had been hardly used for years and this year it has had 3 full house games. The Leinster championship is not getting the crowds of 30 years ago because there is zero chance of a Dublin-Meath game going to extra time. As for inflation, I doubt if prices are any higher than ever they were and most people have no problem paying for them if they are interested, look at the crowds in the Munster hurling or the quarter of a million people who paid out €150 a go for Bruce Springsteen.

Perhaps the price isnt too bad but it's the condensed format that goes along with the price. Big costs for families every week or fortnight is not sustainable for many.

As much as I love the Ulster championship, it is now clear that the provincials have to go.

Mechanisms such as the €50 ticket for the 3 group games are a response to the cost.

As for the provincial championships, when they are abolished people will then be posting that it used to be possible for families to go to Omagh or Clones but the cost of having to go to games in Kerry or Galway is prohibitive.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

AustinPowers

Quote from: Sportacus on May 28, 2024, 03:05:23 PM
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on May 28, 2024, 02:50:24 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on May 28, 2024, 02:43:19 PMYou can talk about structures all day, but the coaching tactics are so god awful that you'll be very lucky to see a good game. May as well tune in for the semifinal and final.  Most of the rest of the games are just cat and mouse nonsense.

Tyrone Donegal was a joy to watch I though.

Cant but admire the conditioning of the Donegal players.

Whilst there are some terrible games, we love to jump on the bandwagon of criticizing Gaelic football without looking at each game individually.

I've seen some brilliant games this year personally, and some terrible ones as with any sport; but there's definitely been more games I've watched where I've came away thinking that was an enjoyable  watch.
That's good, I'm genuinely glad to hear it. I'm sure Louth supporters enjoyed their day as well, and so on.  But there is so much dross, all caused by the coaching, nothing wrong with the rules. Two good semifinals and final in front of a packed Croke Park will end the season well hopefully. But there has to be some reflection on the overall entertainment value of the sport.  It's dying a death in my opinion.

Difficult to disagree with any of that

Armagh18

Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 03:15:21 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on May 28, 2024, 01:21:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 28, 2024, 11:48:24 AMThe fall in attendances are actually incredible in the past 5-10 years, there are too many matches with nothing on the line at high prices in an inflation/cost of living crisis.

So many big staidums now and they forgot to keep the supporters onside

What is needed is competition. Someone noted that Celtic park in Derry had been hardly used for years and this year it has had 3 full house games. The Leinster championship is not getting the crowds of 30 years ago because there is zero chance of a Dublin-Meath game going to extra time. As for inflation, I doubt if prices are any higher than ever they were and most people have no problem paying for them if they are interested, look at the crowds in the Munster hurling or the quarter of a million people who paid out €150 a go for Bruce Springsteen.

Perhaps the price isnt too bad but it's the condensed format that goes along with the price. Big costs for families every week or fortnight is not sustainable for many.

As much as I love the Ulster championship, it is now clear that the provincials have to go.

Mechanisms such as the €50 ticket for the 3 group games are a response to the cost.

As for the provincial championships, when they are abolished people will then be posting that it used to be possible for families to go to Omagh or Clones but the cost of having to go to games in Kerry or Galway is prohibitive.
Thats a very good point that doesn't get mentioned often.

lurganblue

Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 03:15:21 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on May 28, 2024, 01:21:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 28, 2024, 11:48:24 AMThe fall in attendances are actually incredible in the past 5-10 years, there are too many matches with nothing on the line at high prices in an inflation/cost of living crisis.

So many big staidums now and they forgot to keep the supporters onside

What is needed is competition. Someone noted that Celtic park in Derry had been hardly used for years and this year it has had 3 full house games. The Leinster championship is not getting the crowds of 30 years ago because there is zero chance of a Dublin-Meath game going to extra time. As for inflation, I doubt if prices are any higher than ever they were and most people have no problem paying for them if they are interested, look at the crowds in the Munster hurling or the quarter of a million people who paid out €150 a go for Bruce Springsteen.

Perhaps the price isnt too bad but it's the condensed format that goes along with the price. Big costs for families every week or fortnight is not sustainable for many.

As much as I love the Ulster championship, it is now clear that the provincials have to go.

Mechanisms such as the €50 ticket for the 3 group games are a response to the cost.

As for the provincial championships, when they are abolished people will then be posting that it used to be possible for families to go to Omagh or Clones but the cost of having to go to games in Kerry or Galway is prohibitive.

This was a great idea.  I totally agree.  For some reason though, they restricted the number of these packages available despite knowledge that no ground would be sold out.

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

From the Bunker

Mayo and Dublin were the cash-cow for high attendances of the GAA for the last decade. Dublin fans have got fed-up of winning (usually by double figures) and Mayo fans have got fed up of being ordinary again.