Negativity around current Championship Structure and Alternatives

Started by SouthOfThe Bann, May 28, 2024, 11:07:35 AM

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SouthOfThe Bann

A lot of negativity around the current championship format among the media in recent weeks.

I'm wondering would a open draw championship with a back door work?

Round 1 - Open Draw

Round 2 - 8 losers play each other in round two (losers round) and 8 winners play each other in round 2 (winners round).

Round 3 - The 4 winners from the winners round progress to the quarter finals whilst the 4 losers from the winners round play the 4 winners from the losers round. (Slightly confusing but bare with me)

Round 4 - Quarter Finals

See below how it might play out

Round 1
Derry 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Armagh 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Dublin 3-17 v 1-12 Cavan
Kerry 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan
Mayo 0-18 v 0-07 Roscommon
Galway 2-19 v 0-04 Meath
Tyrone 0-13 v 0-10 Louth
Donegal 0-17 v 0-09 Cork

** 8 Winners play off and 8 losers play off

Round 2 - Losers round
Cavan 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Monaghan 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Roscommon 3-17 v 1-12 Meath
Cork 0-19 v 0-11 Louth

** Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork progress to play the losers of the winners round

Round 2 - Winners round
Kerry 1-16 v 0-08 Dublin
Galway 2-09 v 0-11 Mayo
Donegal 3-17 v 1-12 Tyrone
Derry 0-19 v 0-11 Armagh

** Kerry Galway Donegal and Derry progress onto quarter finals.
** Dublin Mayo Tyrone and Armagh play off with Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork in round of 12.

Round 3
Dublin 1-16 v 0-08 Cavan
Cork 2-09 v 0-11 Tyrone
Armagh 3-17 v 1-12 Roscommon
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan

** Dublin Cork Armagh and Mayo progress to quarter finals

Round 4 Quarter Finals
Kerry 3-17 v 1-12 Armagh
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Derry
Dublin 0-14 v 0-11 Galway
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Cork

Round 5 Semi Finals
Mayo 3-17 v 1-12 Kerry
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Dublin

Round 6 Final
Donegal 0-18 v 0-17 Mayo (AET)

I think it this is a decent system where everyone has a second chance but no dead rubbers or meaningless games and every game means something.

Delgany 2nds

The current system is total turn off as a life long supporter. Group games to knock out 4 teams is completely unacceptable process...little wonder no one is attending games. Super 8s was the same....money for ole rope.

statto

I find it hard to get enthusiastic about the group stages and the amount of games with no jeopardy.  Should improve after next weekend you would hope. 

full moon

Dublin are levels ahead of the others for obvious reasons and GAA refuses to address that.

Aside from that supporters are being short changed, the GAA ticketing system is a shambles and prices are ridiculous with so many games. 25 quid to stand in a terrace with no cover in a meaningless group match with no jeopardy, poor football and for many your county has little chance to even compete. GAA Go thing also an issue.

Most people want knockout football, with teams playing others of a similar level at reasonable ticket prices and ability to pay cash at the gate. The groups are a joke.

full moon

The fall in attendances are actually incredible in the past 5-10 years, there are too many matches with nothing on the line at high prices in an inflation/cost of living crisis.

So many big staidums now and they forgot to keep the supporters onside

statto

Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on May 28, 2024, 11:07:35 AMA lot of negativity around the current championship format among the media in recent weeks.

I'm wondering would a open draw championship with a back door work?

Round 1 - Open Draw

Round 2 - 8 losers play each other in round two (losers round) and 8 winners play each other in round 2 (winners round).

Round 3 - The 4 winners from the winners round progress to the quarter finals whilst the 4 losers from the winners round play the 4 winners from the losers round. (Slightly confusing but bare with me)

Round 4 - Quarter Finals

See below how it might play out

Round 1
Derry 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Armagh 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Dublin 3-17 v 1-12 Cavan
Kerry 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan
Mayo 0-18 v 0-07 Roscommon
Galway 2-19 v 0-04 Meath
Tyrone 0-13 v 0-10 Louth
Donegal 0-17 v 0-09 Cork

** 8 Winners play off and 8 losers play off

Round 2 - Losers round
Cavan 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Monaghan 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Roscommon 3-17 v 1-12 Meath
Cork 0-19 v 0-11 Louth

** Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork progress to play the losers of the winners round

Round 2 - Winners round
Kerry 1-16 v 0-08 Dublin
Galway 2-09 v 0-11 Mayo
Donegal 3-17 v 1-12 Tyrone
Derry 0-19 v 0-11 Armagh

** Kerry Galway Donegal and Derry progress onto quarter finals.
** Dublin Mayo Tyrone and Armagh play off with Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork in round of 12.

Round 3
Dublin 1-16 v 0-08 Cavan
Cork 2-09 v 0-11 Tyrone
Armagh 3-17 v 1-12 Roscommon
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan

** Dublin Cork Armagh and Mayo progress to quarter finals

Round 4 Quarter Finals
Kerry 3-17 v 1-12 Armagh
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Derry
Dublin 0-14 v 0-11 Galway
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Cork

Round 5 Semi Finals
Mayo 3-17 v 1-12 Kerry
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Dublin

Round 6 Final
Donegal 0-18 v 0-17 Mayo (AET)

I think it this is a decent system where everyone has a second chance but no dead rubbers or meaningless games and every game means something.

Not bad at all,  reduction in games be an issue though for the GAA. Would have to increase prices further to compensate. 

smort

Quote from: statto on May 28, 2024, 11:50:01 AM
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on May 28, 2024, 11:07:35 AMA lot of negativity around the current championship format among the media in recent weeks.

I'm wondering would a open draw championship with a back door work?

Round 1 - Open Draw

Round 2 - 8 losers play each other in round two (losers round) and 8 winners play each other in round 2 (winners round).

Round 3 - The 4 winners from the winners round progress to the quarter finals whilst the 4 losers from the winners round play the 4 winners from the losers round. (Slightly confusing but bare with me)

Round 4 - Quarter Finals

See below how it might play out

Round 1
Derry 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Armagh 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Dublin 3-17 v 1-12 Cavan
Kerry 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan
Mayo 0-18 v 0-07 Roscommon
Galway 2-19 v 0-04 Meath
Tyrone 0-13 v 0-10 Louth
Donegal 0-17 v 0-09 Cork

** 8 Winners play off and 8 losers play off

Round 2 - Losers round
Cavan 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Monaghan 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Roscommon 3-17 v 1-12 Meath
Cork 0-19 v 0-11 Louth

** Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork progress to play the losers of the winners round

Round 2 - Winners round
Kerry 1-16 v 0-08 Dublin
Galway 2-09 v 0-11 Mayo
Donegal 3-17 v 1-12 Tyrone
Derry 0-19 v 0-11 Armagh

** Kerry Galway Donegal and Derry progress onto quarter finals.
** Dublin Mayo Tyrone and Armagh play off with Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork in round of 12.

Round 3
Dublin 1-16 v 0-08 Cavan
Cork 2-09 v 0-11 Tyrone
Armagh 3-17 v 1-12 Roscommon
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan

** Dublin Cork Armagh and Mayo progress to quarter finals

Round 4 Quarter Finals
Kerry 3-17 v 1-12 Armagh
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Derry
Dublin 0-14 v 0-11 Galway
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Cork

Round 5 Semi Finals
Mayo 3-17 v 1-12 Kerry
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Dublin

Round 6 Final
Donegal 0-18 v 0-17 Mayo (AET)

I think it this is a decent system where everyone has a second chance but no dead rubbers or meaningless games and every game means something.

Not bad at all,  reduction in games be an issue though for the GAA. Would have to increase prices further to compensate.

A trade off that could be accepted. Think I'd be happy to pay a bit more if I knew I wouldnt be attending as many matches, and the matches I am attending have more jeopardy

RedHand88

Quote from: full moon on May 28, 2024, 11:45:15 AMDublin are levels ahead of the others for obvious reasons and GAA refuses to address that.

Aside from that supporters are being short changed, the GAA ticketing system is a shambles and prices are ridiculous with so many games. 25 quid to stand in a terrace with no cover in a meaningless group match with no jeopardy, poor football and for many your county has little chance to even compete. GAA Go thing also an issue.

Most people want knockout football, with teams playing others of a similar level at reasonable ticket prices and ability to pay cash at the gate. The groups are a joke.

Paying cash at the gate is a non starter. For obvious reasons the entire world is moving away from physical cash, and the GAA should be no different.

Rossfan

Quote from: statto on May 28, 2024, 11:50:01 AM
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on May 28, 2024, 11:07:35 AMA lot of negativity around the current championship format among the media in recent weeks.

I'm wondering would a open draw championship with a back door work?

Round 1 - Open Draw

Round 2 - 8 losers play each other in round two (losers round) and 8 winners play each other in round 2 (winners round).

Round 3 - The 4 winners from the winners round progress to the quarter finals whilst the 4 losers from the winners round play the 4 winners from the losers round. (Slightly confusing but bare with me)

Round 4 - Quarter Finals

See below how it might play out

Round 1
Derry 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Armagh 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Dublin 3-17 v 1-12 Cavan
Kerry 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan
Mayo 0-18 v 0-07 Roscommon
Galway 2-19 v 0-04 Meath
Tyrone 0-13 v 0-10 Louth
Donegal 0-17 v 0-09 Cork

** 8 Winners play off and 8 losers play off

Round 2 - Losers round
Cavan 1-16 v 0-08 Westmeath
Monaghan 2-09 v 0-11 Clare
Roscommon 3-17 v 1-12 Meath
Cork 0-19 v 0-11 Louth

** Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork progress to play the losers of the winners round

Round 2 - Winners round
Kerry 1-16 v 0-08 Dublin
Galway 2-09 v 0-11 Mayo
Donegal 3-17 v 1-12 Tyrone
Derry 0-19 v 0-11 Armagh

** Kerry Galway Donegal and Derry progress onto quarter finals.
** Dublin Mayo Tyrone and Armagh play off with Cavan Monaghan Roscommon and Cork in round of 12.

Round 3
Dublin 1-16 v 0-08 Cavan
Cork 2-09 v 0-11 Tyrone
Armagh 3-17 v 1-12 Roscommon
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Monaghan

** Dublin Cork Armagh and Mayo progress to quarter finals

Round 4 Quarter Finals
Kerry 3-17 v 1-12 Armagh
Mayo 0-19 v 0-11 Derry
Dublin 0-14 v 0-11 Galway
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Cork

Round 5 Semi Finals
Mayo 3-17 v 1-12 Kerry
Donegal 0-17 v 0-11 Dublin

Round 6 Final
Donegal 0-18 v 0-17 Mayo (AET)

I think it this is a decent system where everyone has a second chance but no dead rubbers or meaningless games and every game means something.

Not bad at all,  reduction in games be an issue though for the GAA. Would have to increase prices further to compensate.

Would be 27 AI matches instead of 35 under the present system.
Why does round 1 have to be "open draw" ?
It wouldn't be as Provincial Champions would be seeded and couldn't draw a team they beat in a Provincial Final.
They'd probably put the 8 Finalists in 1 pot anyway.
However this is a subject for the long winter nights.

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

armaghniac

Quote from: full moon on May 28, 2024, 11:48:24 AMThe fall in attendances are actually incredible in the past 5-10 years, there are too many matches with nothing on the line at high prices in an inflation/cost of living crisis.

So many big staidums now and they forgot to keep the supporters onside

What is needed is competition. Someone noted that Celtic park in Derry had been hardly used for years and this year it has had 3 full house games. The Leinster championship is not getting the crowds of 30 years ago because there is zero chance of a Dublin-Meath game going to extra time. As for inflation, I doubt if prices are any higher than ever they were and most people have no problem paying for them if they are interested, look at the crowds in the Munster hurling or the quarter of a million people who paid out €150 a go for Bruce Springsteen.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

lurganblue

Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 28, 2024, 11:48:24 AMThe fall in attendances are actually incredible in the past 5-10 years, there are too many matches with nothing on the line at high prices in an inflation/cost of living crisis.

So many big staidums now and they forgot to keep the supporters onside

What is needed is competition. Someone noted that Celtic park in Derry had been hardly used for years and this year it has had 3 full house games. The Leinster championship is not getting the crowds of 30 years ago because there is zero chance of a Dublin-Meath game going to extra time. As for inflation, I doubt if prices are any higher than ever they were and most people have no problem paying for them if they are interested, look at the crowds in the Munster hurling or the quarter of a million people who paid out €150 a go for Bruce Springsteen.

Perhaps the price isnt too bad but it's the condensed format that goes along with the price. Big costs for families every week or fortnight is not sustainable for many.

As much as I love the Ulster championship, it is now clear that the provincials have to go.

JoG2

Quote from: statto on May 28, 2024, 11:44:03 AMI find it hard to get enthusiastic about the group stages and the amount of games with no jeopardy.  Should improve after next weekend you would hope. 

We've loads of games,many televised, each group game absolutely has some jeopardy attached when you consider the benefit of finishing first, second or third?. Surely we want more football? Championship finishes earlier and we're into the club championship. Hard to whack  8)

weareros

Pundits go on about only 4 being eliminated but a week later another 4 go, and the week after that another 4. It will spring into
life shortly. The jeopardy is on the horizon.

Blowitupref

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 28, 2024, 12:25:14 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 28, 2024, 11:45:15 AMDublin are levels ahead of the others for obvious reasons and GAA refuses to address that.

Aside from that supporters are being short changed, the GAA ticketing system is a shambles and prices are ridiculous with so many games. 25 quid to stand in a terrace with no cover in a meaningless group match with no jeopardy, poor football and for many your county has little chance to even compete. GAA Go thing also an issue.

Most people want knockout football, with teams playing others of a similar level at reasonable ticket prices and ability to pay cash at the gate. The groups are a joke.

Paying cash at the gate is a non starter. For obvious reasons the entire world is moving away from physical cash, and the GAA should be no different.

And yet when one walks inside any GAA stadium you can use cash to buy food,drink and a program. 
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

AustinPowers

Quote from: lurganblue on May 28, 2024, 01:21:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 28, 2024, 11:48:24 AMThe fall in attendances are actually incredible in the past 5-10 years, there are too many matches with nothing on the line at high prices in an inflation/cost of living crisis.

So many big staidums now and they forgot to keep the supporters onside

What is needed is competition. Someone noted that Celtic park in Derry had been hardly used for years and this year it has had 3 full house games. The Leinster championship is not getting the crowds of 30 years ago because there is zero chance of a Dublin-Meath game going to extra time. As for inflation, I doubt if prices are any higher than ever they were and most people have no problem paying for them if they are interested, look at the crowds in the Munster hurling or the quarter of a million people who paid out €150 a go for Bruce Springsteen.

Perhaps the price isnt too bad but it's the condensed format that goes along with the price. Big costs for families every week or fortnight is not sustainable for many.

As much as I love the Ulster championship, it is now clear that the provincials have to go.

I think the provincials need seeded.  Ulster is  the most competitive so the winners should progress  a round further in the championship  after they win it.

Munster/Leinster  winners should have to play  another game or two to get to the same stage as  Ulster winners.  If those championships  become competitive again , re-evaluate the seeding