Intercounty apathy a worrying trend

[Lone Shark]

Please don't presume to read my mind thanks very much. Maybe some of us are thinking what's best for Gaelic football.Just make your points for/against things without impugning the motives of posters here. How dare you!!
By the time Senior/Inter/Junior comes around we will be lucky (Demographics etc) to make the Junior grade.
In 25 years time there will be 1.5m people in Dublin and probably 800k in Kildare/Meath/Wicklow.
Are present Administrative structures and Competition structures suitable for this forthcoming lopsided population?

Okay, I'll bite. For footballing reasons, why is 12/12/8 superior to 8/12/12, when ostensibly, the latter would appear to create more competitive competitions for all? Realistically, outside of KY/TYR/MO/DL and at a real, real push, Cork & Galway, there is no-one else that would be shorter than 10/1 to beat Dublin in a one off game. Certainly it'd probably be a more lopsided fixture than Leitrim/Waterford/Antrim against Armagh or Clare, who'd be the type of teams that would be inter under 12/12/8 but junior under 8/8/12.

[Rossfan]

Shark you're away on 2016/17 terms and making a case for only 6 Senior teams.
Think broad and long term.

[Lone Shark]

I am thinking long term. In the long term, the last time the Sam Maguire was won by any county that would have been deemed to be outside the top 6 at the start of that particular year would have been back in the early 1990's, when there was great parity and anyone of four or five Ulster Counties would have been capable, alongside Dublin, Kerry, Cork, and even Mayo (at a push). Before that, you probably have to go back to Offaly in 1971. Even then, all of those counties would have been comfortably inside the top ten in May of the relevant years.

Counties ranked 10/11/12 at the start of the year don't win the big prize, ever. They just don't do it. They come close occasionally (Down 2010, Galway 1983 come to mind) but they don't win. 

[seafoid]

I am thinking long term. In the long term, the last time the Sam Maguire was won by any county that would have been deemed to be outside the top 6 at the start of that particular year would have been back in the early 1990's, when there was great parity and anyone of four or five Ulster Counties would have been capable, alongside Dublin, Kerry, Cork, and even Mayo (at a push). Before that, you probably have to go back to Offaly in 1971. Even then, all of those counties would have been comfortably inside the top ten in May of the relevant years.

Counties ranked 10/11/12 at the start of the year don't win the big prize, ever. They just don't do it. They come close occasionally (Down 2010, Galway 1983 come to mind) but they don't win.

What about Armagh in 2002 ? They were fairly mediocre in 2001

[Fuzzman]

I see Donegal might be without MacNeillis and Thompson this year. Cavan are missing a load from last year as are Derry. Players seem to be a lot happier making their own life choices recently and taking time out as they know it's a huge commitment now.

[Rossfan]

I am thinking long term. In the long term, the last time the Sam Maguire was won by any county that would have been deemed to be outside the top 6 at the start of that particular year would have been back in the early 1990's, when there was great parity and anyone of four or five Ulster Counties would have been capable, alongside Dublin, Kerry, Cork, and even Mayo (at a push). Before that, you probably have to go back to Offaly in 1971. Even then, all of those counties would have been comfortably inside the top ten in May of the relevant years.

Counties ranked 10/11/12 at the start of the year don't win the big prize, ever. They just don't do it. They come close occasionally (Down 2010, Galway 1983 come to mind) but they don't win.

What about Armagh in 2002 ? They were fairly mediocre in 2001

They ran Galway to a point in 2001 and had won Ulster in 1999 and 2000 if my memory serves me right.

[seafoid]

I am thinking long term. In the long term, the last time the Sam Maguire was won by any county that would have been deemed to be outside the top 6 at the start of that particular year would have been back in the early 1990's, when there was great parity and anyone of four or five Ulster Counties would have been capable, alongside Dublin, Kerry, Cork, and even Mayo (at a push). Before that, you probably have to go back to Offaly in 1971. Even then, all of those counties would have been comfortably inside the top ten in May of the relevant years.

Counties ranked 10/11/12 at the start of the year don't win the big prize, ever. They just don't do it. They come close occasionally (Down 2010, Galway 1983 come to mind) but they don't win.

What about Armagh in 2002 ? They were fairly mediocre in 2001

They ran Galway to a point in 2001 and had won Ulster in 1999 and 2000 if my memory serves me right.

in 2001 Ros were Connacht champions. Kerry and Meath and the Dubs were strong as were Galway and Derry. That is 6.

[Lone Shark]

I am thinking long term. In the long term, the last time the Sam Maguire was won by any county that would have been deemed to be outside the top 6 at the start of that particular year would have been back in the early 1990's, when there was great parity and anyone of four or five Ulster Counties would have been capable, alongside Dublin, Kerry, Cork, and even Mayo (at a push). Before that, you probably have to go back to Offaly in 1971. Even then, all of those counties would have been comfortably inside the top ten in May of the relevant years.

Counties ranked 10/11/12 at the start of the year don't win the big prize, ever. They just don't do it. They come close occasionally (Down 2010, Galway 1983 come to mind) but they don't win.

What about Armagh in 2002 ? They were fairly mediocre in 2001

They ran Galway to a point in 2001 and had won Ulster in 1999 and 2000 if my memory serves me right.

in 2001 Ros were Connacht champions. Kerry and Meath and the Dubs were strong as were Galway and Derry. That is 6.

I was working in PP at the time. Armagh were fifth in the betting at the start of the year, behind Kerry, Meath, Dublin and Galway. Admittedly there wasn't a lot between them and some of the others behind them, including Tyrone, Derry, Roscommon and Offaly, but they were perceived as a slight cut above that four all the same.

[armaghniac]

Please don't presume to read my mind thanks very much. Maybe some of us are thinking what's best for Gaelic football.Just make your points for/against things without impugning the motives of posters here. How dare you!!
By the time Senior/Inter/Junior comes around we will be lucky (Demographics etc) to make the Junior grade.
In 25 years time there will be 1.5m people in Dublin and probably 800k in Kildare/Meath/Wicklow.
Are present Administrative structures and Competition structures suitable for this forthcoming lopsided population?

Okay, I'll bite. For footballing reasons, why is 12/12/8 superior to 8/12/12, when ostensibly, the latter would appear to create more competitive competitions for all? Realistically, outside of KY/TYR/MO/DL and at a real, real push, Cork & Galway, there is no-one else that would be shorter than 10/1 to beat Dublin in a one off game. Certainly it'd probably be a more lopsided fixture than Leitrim/Waterford/Antrim against Armagh or Clare, who'd be the type of teams that would be inter under 12/12/8 but junior under 8/8/12.

It isn't so long ago that Armagh beat Leitrim by a cricket score in Pairc Sean.

[Lone Shark]

Please don't presume to read my mind thanks very much. Maybe some of us are thinking what's best for Gaelic football.Just make your points for/against things without impugning the motives of posters here. How dare you!!
By the time Senior/Inter/Junior comes around we will be lucky (Demographics etc) to make the Junior grade.
In 25 years time there will be 1.5m people in Dublin and probably 800k in Kildare/Meath/Wicklow.
Are present Administrative structures and Competition structures suitable for this forthcoming lopsided population?

Okay, I'll bite. For footballing reasons, why is 12/12/8 superior to 8/12/12, when ostensibly, the latter would appear to create more competitive competitions for all? Realistically, outside of KY/TYR/MO/DL and at a real, real push, Cork & Galway, there is no-one else that would be shorter than 10/1 to beat Dublin in a one off game. Certainly it'd probably be a more lopsided fixture than Leitrim/Waterford/Antrim against Armagh or Clare, who'd be the type of teams that would be inter under 12/12/8 but junior under 8/8/12.

It isn't so long ago that Armagh beat Leitrim by a cricket score in Pairc Sean.

I remember - I was covering the game, and I got penalty points on the way into the match. The reason I know that it was the summer of 2013 is that those points only finally went off my license a few months ago!

Two things here:

(1) Armagh in 2013 were well ahead of Armagh 2016/2017.
(2) There could be cricket scores at any level, but Dublin beating teams ranked 9-12 by large margins is far more common that teams ranked around 20 giving out hidings to the Leitrims and Waterfords of this world.

[seafoid]

I am thinking long term. In the long term, the last time the Sam Maguire was won by any county that would have been deemed to be outside the top 6 at the start of that particular year would have been back in the early 1990's, when there was great parity and anyone of four or five Ulster Counties would have been capable, alongside Dublin, Kerry, Cork, and even Mayo (at a push). Before that, you probably have to go back to Offaly in 1971. Even then, all of those counties would have been comfortably inside the top ten in May of the relevant years.

Counties ranked 10/11/12 at the start of the year don't win the big prize, ever. They just don't do it. They come close occasionally (Down 2010, Galway 1983 come to mind) but they don't win.

What about Armagh in 2002 ? They were fairly mediocre in 2001

They ran Galway to a point in 2001 and had won Ulster in 1999 and 2000 if my memory serves me right.

in 2001 Ros were Connacht champions. Kerry and Meath and the Dubs were strong as were Galway and Derry. That is 6.

I was working in PP at the time. Armagh were fifth in the betting at the start of the year, behind Kerry, Meath, Dublin and Galway. Admittedly there wasn't a lot between them and some of the others behind them, including Tyrone, Derry, Roscommon and Offaly, but they were perceived as a slight cut above that four all the same.

What about 98? Galway hadn't won Connacht since 95. A Connacht team hadn't won since 66. Were Galway also top 6?

[Esmarelda]

Lone Shark, while my original point on the split still stands, what an 8, 12, 12 split does is push better teams down to "Junior" making the competition irrelevant for the likes of London, Carlow, Wicklow etc.

Again, for whom are we trying to change the structure?

[armaghniac]

Please don't presume to read my mind thanks very much. Maybe some of us are thinking what's best for Gaelic football.Just make your points for/against things without impugning the motives of posters here. How dare you!!
By the time Senior/Inter/Junior comes around we will be lucky (Demographics etc) to make the Junior grade.
In 25 years time there will be 1.5m people in Dublin and probably 800k in Kildare/Meath/Wicklow.
Are present Administrative structures and Competition structures suitable for this forthcoming lopsided population?

Okay, I'll bite. For footballing reasons, why is 12/12/8 superior to 8/12/12, when ostensibly, the latter would appear to create more competitive competitions for all? Realistically, outside of KY/TYR/MO/DL and at a real, real push, Cork & Galway, there is no-one else that would be shorter than 10/1 to beat Dublin in a one off game. Certainly it'd probably be a more lopsided fixture than Leitrim/Waterford/Antrim against Armagh or Clare, who'd be the type of teams that would be inter under 12/12/8 but junior under 8/8/12.

It isn't so long ago that Armagh beat Leitrim by a cricket score in Pairc Sean.

I remember - I was covering the game, and I got penalty points on the way into the match. The reason I know that it was the summer of 2013 is that those points only finally went off my license a few months ago!

Two things here:

(1) Armagh in 2013 were well ahead of Armagh 2016/2017.
(2) There could be cricket scores at any level, but Dublin beating teams ranked 9-12 by large margins is far more common that teams ranked around 20 giving out hidings to the Leitrims and Waterfords of this world.

It remains to be seen,  of course,  but I think Armagh in 2017 might well be comparable to 2013, as they are more a middle third team than  a lower third team. As such they might hammer a lower team and then get beaten by the likes of Galway.

The problem is that Dublin are the elephant in the room here,  as with a population of a province there will only ever be a handful of teams to stay close to them.

[magpie seanie]

I am thinking long term. In the long term, the last time the Sam Maguire was won by any county that would have been deemed to be outside the top 6 at the start of that particular year would have been back in the early 1990's, when there was great parity and anyone of four or five Ulster Counties would have been capable, alongside Dublin, Kerry, Cork, and even Mayo (at a push). Before that, you probably have to go back to Offaly in 1971. Even then, all of those counties would have been comfortably inside the top ten in May of the relevant years.

Counties ranked 10/11/12 at the start of the year don't win the big prize, ever. They just don't do it. They come close occasionally (Down 2010, Galway 1983 come to mind) but they don't win.

What about Armagh in 2002 ? They were fairly mediocre in 2001

They ran Galway to a point in 2001 and had won Ulster in 1999 and 2000 if my memory serves me right.

in 2001 Ros were Connacht champions. Kerry and Meath and the Dubs were strong as were Galway and Derry. That is 6.

I was working in PP at the time. Armagh were fifth in the betting at the start of the year, behind Kerry, Meath, Dublin and Galway. Admittedly there wasn't a lot between them and some of the others behind them, including Tyrone, Derry, Roscommon and Offaly, but they were perceived as a slight cut above that four all the same.

What about 98? Galway hadn't won Connacht since 95. A Connacht team hadn't won since 66. Were Galway also top 6?

You might have a point with 1998. Kerry, Cork, Kildare, Dublin, Meath, Derry, Tyrone probably all higher rated at start of season???

[Jinxy]

Not to mention Mayo.