Live NI Politics TV Debate

[Bensars]

"Also, how do you figure that the British parliament has more effect on the lives of the people of the north? Do you know what proportion of legislation affecting the north originates in Westminster?"

Irrespective of the romantic notion you may have Ulick, westminister has a much much more significant impact on the lifes of the people in the six counties than Dublin.

Okay then Bensars, how much legislation originates in Westminster?

Effect on the lives of the people ?

Legislation originating from westminister would include, budget guidelines which include


Income tax rates
Pension rates
Benefit rates
Fuel duty
Stamp duty on property
License fees

Dont forget the free medical care under the NHS.


To get involved or caught up in the argument about the amount of legislation originating from westmisinster vs stormont or Dublin is nothing other than a smokescreen.

The British Parlliament has a huge impact on the lives of the people of the north, whether or not that fits with your political ideals or not. You cant square a circle !

[Doogie Browser]

I could not watch every time Ritchie opened her trap, she was that annoying, every answer is straight out of the John Hume Soundbite Book (available in all bad bookshops).  The last person to run a party as bad as her was Michael Barrymore.

[Ulick]

Thanks for answering Ulick. Forgive me. It's probably unworthy, but I get a laugh from the discomfort the line about administering British rule provokes and from wondering what the form of words to explain it will be. So you're right - it is a bit puerile in that it's done in a spirit of mischievous stick poking. I was hoping for a response from Nally Stand. Maybe yet.

On your serious question - I haven't calculated the relative proportions of relevant legislation originating from the separate parliaments. I just think most people would reason that the major economic policy and spending decisions are the ones that affect people's lives the most.

Hardy, I'd estimate between 5-10% of legislation originates in the British parliament, with the rest coming from Brussels or Stormont so it's very debatable whether it has more affect on people lives.

One other point on the abstentionist thing, IMO the more abstentionist MPs we have the more focus is brought to bear on the illegitimacy of the British presence. The next election could see at least half of the norths 18 MPs in SF (abstentionist) hands which will correctly blow open the constitutional debate here. Up until now we have been denied that debate due to unionist denials reunification will ever happen and the southern establishments unwillingness to debate it in the open for fear it somehow bolsters the SF position. That debate is sorely needed.

[Ulick]

To get involved or caught up in the argument about the amount of legislation originating from westmisinster vs stormont or Dublin is nothing other than a smokescreen.

The British Parlliament has a huge impact on the lives of the people of the north, whether or not that fits with your political ideals or not. You cant square a circle !

Bensars, clam down ffs. Firstly I was not comparing it to Stormont or Dublin, the EU was probably uppermost in my mind as the body that sets the framework for most legislation. Secondly, despite the small amount of legislation coming from the Brit parliament, which granted has a great affect on the people of the six counties, Irish MPs have no influence over there never have, never will. The best thing for the Irish to do is to devise a strategy to extract themselves from the union in the medium term and in the short term to lobby the Brits for our interests. But make no mistake, they'll get fcuk all from doffing the cap to the Britsh establishment in Westminster.

[EC Unique]

I could not watch every time Ritchie opened her trap, she was that annoying, every answer is straight out of the John Hume Soundbite Book (available in all bad bookshops).  The last person to run a party as bad as her was Michael Barrymore.

[saffron sam2]

Can any of you more astute political observers explain to a bemused onlooker the logic, moral basis or political purpose of SF's abstentionist policy in the post-peace process world?  They're happy to administer British rule in Ireland but unwilling to represent Irish people in the British parliament, arguably the more important assembly in the effect it has on the lives of those who voted for them.

Hardy, if may have escaped you but SF are elected on an abstentionist ticket i.e. they are elected not to go so why would they go?

What % of SF's vote is solely down to their abstentionist policy? I would have thought there were more important issues.

If SF changed their absentionist policy, how much do you think it affect their vote?

[reddgnhand]

"Also, how do you figure that the British parliament has more effect on the lives of the people of the north? Do you know what proportion of legislation affecting the north originates in Westminster?"

Idealistic bullsh*t.


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Certainly isnt coming from Dublin.


Irrespective of the romantic notion you may have Ulick, westminister has a much much more significant impact on the lifes of the people in the six counties than Dublin.

On the other hand income tax, VAT etc are not heading to Dublin. I would agree with you that westminister has a huge impact on the lives of the people of the north but I dont believe that any MP from the north (abstentionist or not) has any influence on party policy in Britain. 

[Ulick]

What % of SF's vote is solely down to their abstentionist policy? I would have thought there were more important issues.

If SF changed their absentionist policy, how much do you think it affect their vote?

No idea, but they wouldn't get my vote, as I don't think there is a more important issue than national sovereignty.

[Tony Baloney]

If the politicians want to devolve everything and play big boys politics, where do they get the dough if Westminster decide to stop footing the bills for the 6 counties? Everytime there is a butting of heads in Stormont they run off cap in hand to London to say they'll play nice for another handout. 

[Mario]

What % of SF's vote is solely down to their abstentionist policy? I would have thought there were more important issues.

If SF changed their absentionist policy, how much do you think it affect their vote?

No idea, but they wouldn't get my vote, as I don't think there is a more important issue than national sovereignty.

There are plenty more important issues than national sovereignty, I don't speak for all the young people of northern ireland, but im 23 and a united ireland is way down the list of things i consider when voting, it doesnt effect me day to day, i have the right to call myself irish and im happy enough with that. Im not old enough to have been badly effected my the troubles. If anything living in Dublin the last 2 years has made me realise plenty of the negative sides to a united Ireland.

Getting back to the more important issues, Your child/wife/mother is suffering a life threatening illness and can't get treatment in time, your offered a united ireland or saving your loved ones life, what do you do. Sinn Fein can't even sit and debate this in west minister, its ridiculous. I understand their stance 30 years ago but not now.

All the partys have to start focusing on proper politics in the north, as was highlighted last night, Sinn Feins view on the economy is on the 42nd page of their mandate, thats just ridiculous, not even 4 pages on it. What normal country has a main party with that. I'm not just having a go at Sinn Fein, i voted for them at the last election. SDLP are a joke of a party, Margaret Ritchie answers every question like shes doing A Level economics, she struggles with any question that isn't straight forward.

I wouldn't be a fan of the tories but they are right in saying NI needs cuts in the public sector, if we want to be a normal function country we can't have half the work force doing nothing working for the government.

[Ulick]

What % of SF's vote is solely down to their abstentionist policy? I would have thought there were more important issues.

If SF changed their absentionist policy, how much do you think it affect their vote?

No idea, but they wouldn't get my vote, as I don't think there is a more important issue than national sovereignty.

There are plenty more important issues than national sovereignty, I don't speak for all the young people of northern ireland, but im 23 and a united ireland is way down the list of things i consider when voting, it doesnt effect me day to day, i have the right to call myself irish and im happy enough with that. Im not old enough to have been badly effected my the troubles. If anything living in Dublin the last 2 years has made me realise plenty of the negative sides to a united Ireland.

Getting back to the more important issues, Your child/wife/mother is suffering a life threatening illness and can't get treatment in time, your offered a united ireland or saving your loved ones life, what do you do. Sinn Fein can't even sit and debate this in west minister, its ridiculous. I understand their stance 30 years ago but not now.

All the partys have to start focusing on proper politics in the north, as was highlighted last night, Sinn Feins view on the economy is on the 42nd page of their mandate, thats just ridiculous, not even 4 pages on it. What normal country has a main party with that. I'm not just having a go at Sinn Fein, i voted for them at the last election. SDLP are a joke of a party, Margaret Ritchie answers every question like shes doing A Level economics, she struggles with any question that isn't straight forward.

I wouldn't be a fan of the tories but they are right in saying NI needs cuts in the public sector, if we want to be a normal function country we can't have half the work force doing nothing working for the government.

Mario, what benefit exactly do you think SF could gain or change could they effect by taking their seats? 

[johnneycool]

Legislation originating from westminister would include, budget guidelines which include


Income tax rates
Pension rates
Benefit rates
Fuel duty
Stamp duty on property
License fees

Dont forget the free medical care under the NHS.

And not one mentioned in any party pamphlet that's dropped through my door to date.

[delboy]

Thanks for answering Ulick. Forgive me. It's probably unworthy, but I get a laugh from the discomfort the line about administering British rule provokes and from wondering what the form of words to explain it will be. So you're right - it is a bit puerile in that it's done in a spirit of mischievous stick poking. I was hoping for a response from Nally Stand. Maybe yet.

On your serious question - I haven't calculated the relative proportions of relevant legislation originating from the separate parliaments. I just think most people would reason that the major economic policy and spending decisions are the ones that affect people's lives the most.

Hardy, I'd estimate between 5-10% of legislation originates in the British parliament, with the rest coming from Brussels or Stormont so it's very debatable whether it has more affect on people lives.

One other point on the abstentionist thing, IMO the more abstentionist MPs we have the more focus is brought to bear on the illegitimacy of the British presence. The next election could see at least half of the norths 18 MPs in SF (abstentionist) hands which will correctly blow open the constitutional debate here. Up until now we have been denied that debate due to unionist denials reunification will ever happen and the southern establishments unwillingness to debate it in the open for fear it somehow bolsters the SF position. That debate is sorely needed.

Ever the optomist, much more likely to be 4-5 MPs in the real world (good chance of losing a seat from the last elections), would that blow closed the constitional debate here i wonder 

Its ironic that if they did get the 9 or so you hope/dream for then it would make the job of the conservatives (now an out and out unionist party) to govern westminster just that much easier in the event of a tight hung parliment with them as the single largest party (the most likely scenario as it stands).

[Ulick]

Ever the optomist, much more likely to be 4-5 MPs in the real world (good chance of losing a seat from the last elections), would that blow closed the constitional debate here i wonder 

Its ironic that if they did get the 9 or so you hope/dream for then it would make the job of the conservatives (now an out and out unionist party) to govern westminster just that much easier in the event of a tight hung parliment with them as the single largest party (the most likely scenario as it stands).

delboy, if you read my post instead of trying hard to be witty with your puerile use of smilies, I said next election not this one. The seats in play for SF next time out are:

North Belfast
West Belfast
Fermanagh and South Tyrone
Foyle
Mid Ulster
Newry and Armagh
South Down
Upper Bann
West Tyrone

Now you tell me which of these are unrealistic targets?

[strongbow316]

"Also, how do you figure that the British parliament has more effect on the lives of the people of the north? Do you know what proportion of legislation affecting the north originates in Westminster?"

Idealistic bullsh*t.


For those queueing up for,

Unemployment benefit
Job seekers allowance
DLA
Child benefits
Disability benefits
Television License
Council Tax Benefit
Housing Benefit
Funeral Payments
Bereavement benefits
War Widow's
Widower's Pension
Maternity allowance
Statutory maternity pay
Statutory sick pay
Pensions
Cold weather payments
Carers allowance

Certainly isnt coming from Dublin.


Irrespective of the romantic notion you may have Ulick, westminister has a much much more significant impact on the lifes of the people in the six counties than Dublin.

The Majority of these are benifits.