The Sunday Game

[armaghniac]

Thought Cavanagh walked a tight line on his referee comments. Whether he overstepped the mark is a matter of opinion.

For what it matters his defence of McKenna was very forceful. The problem I had with overall discussion was that it suggested it was OK to come in and back up a team mate. Not only is that what starts a melee but if the rules do not allow you to defend yourself they can hardly allow you to defend a team mate.

There also seemed to be an agenda to blame Fermanagh for starting things - and the hand in face did not look good - but the simple fact is that if the Tyrone player had have released the ball when the referee blew his whistle then none of this would have happened.

In the end no matter what people think of the referee players caused the problem and he was probably under pressure to act in line with previous episodes.  We all asked for consistency after all.

The failure to release the ball was the start of it. Many of these incidents start with someone lying on the ball after the whistle has been blown. In real-time, the ref may not have seen the hand in the face but could see someone running in. Kavanagh seemed to imply on the Sunday Game that you get a free pass to run in if you think you see some getting a rap, but as self-defence does not excuse you in any rule.
In the hurling discussion,  Dónal Óg Cusack quoted Confucious (hurling pundits are more erudite) "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves". Teams need to cool the jets and let the other team take the rap on the Sunday Game rather than piling in.

[Blowitupref]

Thought Cavanagh walked a tight line on his referee comments. Whether he overstepped the mark is a matter of opinion.

For what it matters his defence of McKenna was very forceful. The problem I had with overall discussion was that it suggested it was OK to come in and back up a team mate. Not only is that what starts a melee but if the rules do not allow you to defend yourself they can hardly allow you to defend a team mate.

There also seemed to be an agenda to blame Fermanagh for starting things - and the hand in face did not look good - but the simple fact is that if the Tyrone player had have released the ball when the referee blew his whistle then none of this would have happened.

In the end no matter what people think of the referee players caused the problem and he was probably under pressure to act in line with previous episodes.  We all asked for consistency after all.

I think a lot of this is coloured by the teams. If it was Conor McKenna or another Tyrone player who had their hands in someone's face, there would have been much more discussion of that and probably that he should have the book thrown at him. Similar the other players who were the aggressors on the Fermanagh side. I think this is as much down to Tyrone being a high profile team and Fermanagh not being high profile.

I think your point about releasing the ball could make sense, but the Fermanagh players didn't seem interested in the ball and it seemed to have started with a Fermanagh player pulling at his collar, him then ending on the floor, then seemed to get a dig when on the ground, then he grabbed a leg and then they both set about him.

I can understand your point about players backing each other up, but I think this case where a player is in a vulnerable position on the ground with two players on top of him with one putting his hands in the vicinity of his eyes is a different matter than the usual tiddly winks that goes on.

It could be interpreted as a red, from what the rules say. But, it's about contributing to a melee, surely the two players who went at McKenna should also have seen red. Again, the application doesn't seem to be consistent to my eyes.

Hard to disagree.

I suspect McKenna will be cleared this time though

I'll be surprised if he's cleared. He was sent off for the MMA style take down. Why he felt he needed to react in that manner only he knows.

[imtommygunn]

He took the legs from under someone though. That is entirely different from a headlock that could wreck someone's neck.

If the red sticks then retrospectively some Fermanagh players need to see red. Honestly very harsh. You can't leave your own player in a scenario like that with no backup. If a ref has control it doesn't happen.

[nrico2006]

Thought Cavanagh walked a tight line on his referee comments. Whether he overstepped the mark is a matter of opinion.

For what it matters his defence of McKenna was very forceful. The problem I had with overall discussion was that it suggested it was OK to come in and back up a team mate. Not only is that what starts a melee but if the rules do not allow you to defend yourself they can hardly allow you to defend a team mate.

There also seemed to be an agenda to blame Fermanagh for starting things - and the hand in face did not look good - but the simple fact is that if the Tyrone player had have released the ball when the referee blew his whistle then none of this would have happened.

In the end no matter what people think of the referee players caused the problem and he was probably under pressure to act in line with previous episodes.  We all asked for consistency after all.

I think a lot of this is coloured by the teams. If it was Conor McKenna or another Tyrone player who had their hands in someone's face, there would have been much more discussion of that and probably that he should have the book thrown at him. Similar the other players who were the aggressors on the Fermanagh side. I think this is as much down to Tyrone being a high profile team and Fermanagh not being high profile.

I think your point about releasing the ball could make sense, but the Fermanagh players didn't seem interested in the ball and it seemed to have started with a Fermanagh player pulling at his collar, him then ending on the floor, then seemed to get a dig when on the ground, then he grabbed a leg and then they both set about him.

I can understand your point about players backing each other up, but I think this case where a player is in a vulnerable position on the ground with two players on top of him with one putting his hands in the vicinity of his eyes is a different matter than the usual tiddly winks that goes on.

It could be interpreted as a red, from what the rules say. But, it's about contributing to a melee, surely the two players who went at McKenna should also have seen red. Again, the application doesn't seem to be consistent to my eyes.

Hard to disagree.

I suspect McKenna will be cleared this time though

I'll be surprised if he's cleared. He was sent off for the MMA style take down. Why he felt he needed to react in that manner only he knows.

He was being assaulted by two players and tried to defend himself, surely you are allowed to do that. Big difference in giving as good as you gt and trying to stop an attack on yourself by two players.

[Blowitupref]

Thought Cavanagh walked a tight line on his referee comments. Whether he overstepped the mark is a matter of opinion.

For what it matters his defence of McKenna was very forceful. The problem I had with overall discussion was that it suggested it was OK to come in and back up a team mate. Not only is that what starts a melee but if the rules do not allow you to defend yourself they can hardly allow you to defend a team mate.

There also seemed to be an agenda to blame Fermanagh for starting things - and the hand in face did not look good - but the simple fact is that if the Tyrone player had have released the ball when the referee blew his whistle then none of this would have happened.

In the end no matter what people think of the referee players caused the problem and he was probably under pressure to act in line with previous episodes.  We all asked for consistency after all.

I think a lot of this is coloured by the teams. If it was Conor McKenna or another Tyrone player who had their hands in someone's face, there would have been much more discussion of that and probably that he should have the book thrown at him. Similar the other players who were the aggressors on the Fermanagh side. I think this is as much down to Tyrone being a high profile team and Fermanagh not being high profile.

I think your point about releasing the ball could make sense, but the Fermanagh players didn't seem interested in the ball and it seemed to have started with a Fermanagh player pulling at his collar, him then ending on the floor, then seemed to get a dig when on the ground, then he grabbed a leg and then they both set about him.

I can understand your point about players backing each other up, but I think this case where a player is in a vulnerable position on the ground with two players on top of him with one putting his hands in the vicinity of his eyes is a different matter than the usual tiddly winks that goes on.

It could be interpreted as a red, from what the rules say. But, it's about contributing to a melee, surely the two players who went at McKenna should also have seen red. Again, the application doesn't seem to be consistent to my eyes.

Hard to disagree.

I suspect McKenna will be cleared this time though

I'll be surprised if he's cleared. He was sent off for the MMA style take down. Why he felt he needed to react in that manner only he knows.

He was being assaulted by two players and tried to defend himself, surely you are allowed to do that. Big difference in giving as good as you gt and trying to stop an attack on yourself by two players.

Those assaults as you called them weren't deemed red card offences, would be the same for Mckenna but for some reason he thought he was involved in MMA fight.

[Throw ball]

MMA hyperbole alert. He grabbed someone who was attacking him by the legs to make him fall over. A fairly basic and instinctive thing to do.

Problem is there is no rule that allows self defence- even if you think that is what he was doing

[imtommygunn]

He pulled the legs from under him. Not striking or not likely to cause damage. I get the headlocks are dangerous thing but this wasn't that.

[Ed Ricketts]

There's a dig to the Fermanagh man's head after the take down. Stone wall one game ban for that.

Fermanagh number 5 (McMahon?) should be in trouble too. Hand all over Kilpatrick's face, and then, when Kilpatrick flips him and gets on top, there's nasty grab of the stones. Dirty hoor.

Fermanagh 7 (McCusker?) defo gives Kilpatrick a dunt in the back at the start of the whole thing. Harmless enough, but he couldn't have many complaints if called out on it.

Kilpatrick could've helped matters by releasing the ball earlier, even allowing for the fact he was on the receiving end of a sneaky boot. This macho holding onto the ball stuff adds fuel to a lot of these sorts of incidents. Black cards might be a solution to this type of shithousery.

Just stupid stuff all round. No one looks hard. No one really helped out a team mate under 'assault'. And anyone that gets suspended as a result should suck it up.

[Throw ball]

MMA hyperbole alert. He grabbed someone who was attacking him by the legs to make him fall over. A fairly basic and instinctive thing to do.

Problem is there is no rule that allows self defence- even if you think that is what he was doing

I'm not saying there is. But "MMA" - take a redner ffs.

When did I mention MMA?

[An Watcher]

Holding onto the ball?  Jesus lads if people are getting in trouble for holding onto the ball there'll be no one left to play football at the end of the summer.  Happens umpteen times in every single game around the country

[nrico2006]

MMA hyperbole alert. He grabbed someone who was attacking him by the legs to make him fall over. A fairly basic and instinctive thing to do.

Problem is there is no rule that allows self defence- even if you think that is what he was doing

What rule is there against grabbing a players legs?

[Wildweasel74]

Somebody said here lifting a man up by the legs and taking him down not dangerous, it's one of the most dangerous things in fball, you actually rarely see see it, red many a time in rubgy if the lad  tipped over the imaginary horizonal. As for been assaulting by 2men, don't think you lads been on the receiving of a actual assault, otherwise you know what the f**k you actually talking about.

[Throw ball]

MMA hyperbole alert. He grabbed someone who was attacking him by the legs to make him fall over. A fairly basic and instinctive thing to do.

Problem is there is no rule that allows self defence- even if you think that is what he was doing

What rule is there against grabbing a players legs?

Deliberate trip...black card 

[tyrone08]

Somebody said here lifting a man up by the legs and taking him down not dangerous, it's one of the most dangerous things in fball, you actually rarely see see it, red many a time in rubgy if the lad  tipped over the imaginary horizonal. As for been assaulting by 2men, don't think you lads been on the receiving of a actual assault, otherwise you know what the f**k you actually talking about.

😒Clearly no one meant it was a real physical assault as in a kickin as you see on the streets. Didnt think it would have to be spelled out  but there you go.

However he was dragged around by the neck of the jersey by 2 men which is assault

[HokeyPokey]

The McKenna 'dump' (as some seem to be calling it) is hard to make out. He seemed to be him trying to stop the other buck and get to his feet using your man's legs. The other fella pulling at him seemed to unbalance him and meant the fella ended up on the floor.