Congress

[manfromdelmonte]

Think about it.

Division 1 for 2022 is:
Dublin
Kerry
Tyrone
Mayo
Donegal
Monaghan
Armagh
Kildare

Six qualify for the knockout stage.

Dublin and Kerry coast through, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal probably do too.

Why? Because the three "weak teams", Monaghan, Armagh and Kildare, get targeted as the teams to beat by the big boys. They're the big boys' "bankers" for wins.

So the only topic of interest becomes which of Monaghan, Armagh and Kildare manages to nab sixth place.

Dublin and Kerry go straight to an All-Ireland quarter-final, where they will meet the two weakest quarter-finalists. They coast through those.

Under this format, Dublin and Kerry's entire 2022 season consists of: a load of boring warm ups, lots of shadow boxing, then two matches to win the All-Ireland.

Mayo wouldn't have made the knockout stages in many recent years

[sidelineball]

There's nothing wrong with the way things are. The delegates are happy enough with it and that should be good enough for all concerned. The provincials are a part of history and must not be changed.

[dublin7]

Think about it.

Division 1 for 2022 is:
Dublin
Kerry
Tyrone
Mayo
Donegal
Monaghan
Armagh
Kildare

Six qualify for the knockout stage.

Dublin and Kerry coast through, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal probably do too.

Why? Because the three "weak teams", Monaghan, Armagh and Kildare, get targeted as the teams to beat by the big boys. They're the big boys' "bankers" for wins.

So the only topic of interest becomes which of Monaghan, Armagh and Kildare manages to nab sixth place.

Dublin and Kerry go straight to an All-Ireland quarter-final, where they will meet the two weakest quarter-finalists. They coast through those.

Under this format, Dublin and Kerry's entire 2022 season consists of: a load of boring warm ups, lots of shadow boxing, then two matches to win the All-Ireland.

In what way will this current dubs team coast through? They aren't the invincible team they used to be

[sidelineball]

A good day for Gaelic Football, all told. As Keith Duggan said in today's Irish Times, the proposal was bonkers. B for bonkers.

Now to abolish the Tailteann Cup and the split season.

Dead right. Keep it all the same, it's working great.

[dublin7]

A good day for Gaelic Football, all told. As Keith Duggan said in today's Irish Times, the proposal was bonkers. B for bonkers.

Now to abolish the Tailteann Cup and the split season.

Dead right. Keep it all the same, it's working great.

It's normally around this time of year the draw for next year's provincial championship takes place. Exciting times for the Leinster and Munster championship in particular. I'm sure the likes of Carlow/Wexford and Louth will be hoping to get the dubs and a chance for their game to be covered by RTE

[sid waddell]

Think about it.

Division 1 for 2022 is:
Dublin
Kerry
Tyrone
Mayo
Donegal
Monaghan
Armagh
Kildare

Six qualify for the knockout stage.

Dublin and Kerry coast through, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal probably do too.

Why? Because the three "weak teams", Monaghan, Armagh and Kildare, get targeted as the teams to beat by the big boys. They're the big boys' "bankers" for wins.

So the only topic of interest becomes which of Monaghan, Armagh and Kildare manages to nab sixth place.

Dublin and Kerry go straight to an All-Ireland quarter-final, where they will meet the two weakest quarter-finalists. They coast through those.

Under this format, Dublin and Kerry's entire 2022 season consists of: a load of boring warm ups, lots of shadow boxing, then two matches to win the All-Ireland.

In what way will this current dubs team coast through? They aren't the invincible team they used to be

By winning most or all of their matches in a division in which six of the eight would qualify?

[Rossfan]

There's nothing wrong with the way things are. The delegates are happy enough with it

50.6% of them weren't 

[seafoid]

Think about it.

Division 1 for 2022 is:
Dublin
Kerry
Tyrone
Mayo
Donegal
Monaghan
Armagh
Kildare

Six qualify for the knockout stage.

Dublin and Kerry coast through, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal probably do too.

Why? Because the three "weak teams", Monaghan, Armagh and Kildare, get targeted as the teams to beat by the big boys. They're the big boys' "bankers" for wins.

So the only topic of interest becomes which of Monaghan, Armagh and Kildare manages to nab sixth place.

Dublin and Kerry go straight to an All-Ireland quarter-final, where they will meet the two weakest quarter-finalists. They coast through those.

Under this format, Dublin and Kerry's entire 2022 season consists of: a load of boring warm ups, lots of shadow boxing, then two matches to win the All-Ireland.

Mayo wouldn't have made the knockout stages in many recent years

They didn't need to win the provincial championship until Covid reverted the system to knockout.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/for-all-the-claims-of-a-willingness-to-change-motion-19-was-well-short-of-60-support-1.4709585

Firstly, everyone accepted that the idea was flawed even if proponents argued that the status quo was more ruinously flawed.
Secondly, the ghost of the provincial championships – under motion 19 to be exiled to the early months of year – hovered over the assembly and possessed the thoughts of its most fervent devotees, the Ulster counties.
Their case was opened in melodramatic style by Fermanagh's Tiarnach Mahon, who told congress: "This motion has the potential to destroy the dreams, hopes and aspirations of Fermanagh people."
It wasn't long before someone mordantly observed "sotto voce" that it wasn't the motion but the Ulster championship which did that.
Of course revolutionary reforms rarely find allies in the prevailing elites, and it was noticeable that for all the protestations of willingness to change, all four of this year's All-Ireland semi-finalists, who between them have occupied 35 of the 44 semi-final places available over the past 11 years, were believed to have opposed.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/promise-to-reform-flawed-option-b-later-not-enough-for-congress-1.4709560

How did the GAA end up rejecting the one vehicle for change on the table?
For a start the body that devised it, the Calendar Fixtures Task Force, had effectively been disbanded and in any case divided over what it wanted. Having started two years ago with two more or less equal proposals, the task force saw motion 18, their Option A - four eight-county, provincial based groups - fall without a word being spoken either for or against.
Lacking a coherent sponsor, the surviving reform lacked energy apart from the campaign mounted by the Gaelic Players Association in more recent weeks.
Yet listening to the debate with its 22 speakers - split 13-9 against the motion - it was impossible not to be struck by how well the proposition was presenting the case. From the start when former president John Horan took to the podium, the advocacy of those supporting change was persuasive.
Horan set out his feelings of disappointment that the Calendar Fixtures Task Force, which he had appointed, had split into camps and addressed perceived issues with the proposal, saying that he didn't, "think the financial worry that's out there for people is what it's portrayed to be".

Thematically the basic argument was made by Cork Central Council delegate Tracey Kennedy. "Fears and concerns about change are absolutely natural but if we look in our hearts nobody can say that the current structure is serving the majority of counties well."

"Our footballers told us in no uncertain terms that if something doesn't change you won't see us again. That's the reality. They left Castlebar in despair. Talking about crowds attending games, as county secretary I was dealing with ticket allocations for that game. Family members weren't even there to support them. That's how lonely it was. That's what the current system is providing for the footballers of Leitrim. It's now time to be brave," - Leitrim secretary Declan Bohan

[Kickham csc]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/promise-to-reform-flawed-option-b-later-not-enough-for-congress-1.4709560

How did the GAA end up rejecting the one vehicle for change on the table?
For a start the body that devised it, the Calendar Fixtures Task Force, had effectively been disbanded and in any case divided over what it wanted. Having started two years ago with two more or less equal proposals, the task force saw motion 18, their Option A - four eight-county, provincial based groups - fall without a word being spoken either for or against.
Lacking a coherent sponsor, the surviving reform lacked energy apart from the campaign mounted by the Gaelic Players Association in more recent weeks.
Yet listening to the debate with its 22 speakers - split 13-9 against the motion - it was impossible not to be struck by how well the proposition was presenting the case. From the start when former president John Horan took to the podium, the advocacy of those supporting change was persuasive.
Horan set out his feelings of disappointment that the Calendar Fixtures Task Force, which he had appointed, had split into camps and addressed perceived issues with the proposal, saying that he didn't, "think the financial worry that's out there for people is what it's portrayed to be".

Thematically the basic argument was made by Cork Central Council delegate Tracey Kennedy. "Fears and concerns about change are absolutely natural but if we look in our hearts nobody can say that the current structure is serving the majority of counties well."

"Our footballers told us in no uncertain terms that if something doesn't change you won't see us again. That's the reality. They left Castlebar in despair. Talking about crowds attending games, as county secretary I was dealing with ticket allocations for that game. Family members weren't even there to support them. That's how lonely it was. That's what the current system is providing for the footballers of Leitrim. It's now time to be brave," - Leitrim secretary Declan Bohan

Because the alternative had major flaws. You can't propose changes and expect people to close their eyes and jump knowing that their is flaws in what your proposing. If it happened in business you'd be shown the door.

Regarding Ulster counties reluctance to change... we have a great championship, why would Ulster counties vote to remove a championship that both fans and players love simply because other provincial championships are failing. Since 2009 - All nine Ulster counties got to a final, 4 counties have won it, and Armagh and Derry seem poised to challenge again in the next couple of years.

It was noticeable that the hurling recommendations kept the Leinster and Munster championships in tact and kept them meaningful.

Also, there a number of changes that were due to come into effect for the 2022 season. Changes that hadn't been implemented yet. It's like a shit show where there seem no logical thinking behind this.

There are two major issues at the moment, Dublin's dominance in Leinster, and Kerry's in Munster and the impact on other counties.

I thought their was a proposal a couple years back to play the championships during the league, so the weaker counties still had something to play for right up to the end of the intercounty season. Did it die a death too? That would have kept all counties playing competitive football up to the end of the season

[APM]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/promise-to-reform-flawed-option-b-later-not-enough-for-congress-1.4709560

How did the GAA end up rejecting the one vehicle for change on the table?
For a start the body that devised it, the Calendar Fixtures Task Force, had effectively been disbanded and in any case divided over what it wanted. Having started two years ago with two more or less equal proposals, the task force saw motion 18, their Option A - four eight-county, provincial based groups - fall without a word being spoken either for or against.
Lacking a coherent sponsor, the surviving reform lacked energy apart from the campaign mounted by the Gaelic Players Association in more recent weeks.
Yet listening to the debate with its 22 speakers - split 13-9 against the motion - it was impossible not to be struck by how well the proposition was presenting the case. From the start when former president John Horan took to the podium, the advocacy of those supporting change was persuasive.
Horan set out his feelings of disappointment that the Calendar Fixtures Task Force, which he had appointed, had split into camps and addressed perceived issues with the proposal, saying that he didn't, "think the financial worry that's out there for people is what it's portrayed to be".

Thematically the basic argument was made by Cork Central Council delegate Tracey Kennedy. "Fears and concerns about change are absolutely natural but if we look in our hearts nobody can say that the current structure is serving the majority of counties well."

"Our footballers told us in no uncertain terms that if something doesn't change you won't see us again. That's the reality. They left Castlebar in despair. Talking about crowds attending games, as county secretary I was dealing with ticket allocations for that game. Family members weren't even there to support them. That's how lonely it was. That's what the current system is providing for the footballers of Leitrim. It's now time to be brave," - Leitrim secretary Declan Bohan

Because the alternative had major flaws. You can't propose changes and expect people to close their eyes and jump knowing that their is flaws in what your proposing. If it happened in business you'd be shown the door.

Regarding Ulster counties reluctance to change... we have a great championship, why would Ulster counties vote to remove a championship that both fans and players love simply because other provincial championships are failing. Since 2009 - All nine Ulster counties got to a final, 4 counties have won it, and Armagh and Derry seem poised to challenge again in the next couple of years.

It was noticeable that the hurling recommendations kept the Leinster and Munster championships in tact and kept them meaningful.

Also, there a number of changes that were due to come into effect for the 2022 season. Changes that hadn't been implemented yet. It's like a shit show where there seem no logical thinking behind this.

There are two major issues at the moment, Dublin's dominance in Leinster, and Kerry's in Munster and the impact on other counties.

I thought their was a proposal a couple years back to play the championships during the league, so the weaker counties still had something to play for right up to the end of the intercounty season. Did it die a death too? That would have kept all counties playing competitive football up to the end of the season

Unfortunately you are wrong there.  Embarrassingly Armagh haven't contested a final since they won in 2008!

[seafoid]

There is something seriously wrong with competition when only 4 Division teams account for the majority of semi final appearances going back a while.
It's great that brave little Monaghan punches above its weight in Division 1 but there is still a glass ceiling when it comes to championship. 
Armagh and Kildare are some way off the pace and will probably go straight down again. Even playing Kerry and Dublin regularly is no panacea.

[sidelineball]

Change is not something we should jump into. The delegates were right, The players will like what they tell them to like.

[Rossfan]

Which delegates?
A majority voted for change!