European Leagues.

[gawa316]

PSG and Man City both moneybags owned by petrodollars who have repeatedly failed

Have they? Really?

Kinda obvious I thought

[thebigfella]

PSG and Man City both moneybags owned by petrodollars who have repeatedly failed

Have they? Really?

Kinda obvious I thought

Fair enough they haven't won the Champions League but they are arguably have been in the best 5 teams globally since Pep come in and unlike PSG when they start the tournament as one of the favourites you can see them going the whole way. City's brand is booming with structures in place for long term success; modern stadium and training facilities; great academy etc... If you judge their success by winning that one tournament, then they have failed but bit harsh IMO.

Once they win the Champions League, and they will at some point as they are too good and unlike PSG they are pushed domestically, will it be they are a failure because the should have won more?

[brokencrossbar1]

Absolutely no guarantees that City win the CL. Other clubs have had money and big names and haven't done it. There's a knack to winning in Europe which Liverpool, Madrid, Bayern and a few others know. Sport is like that. History and tradition count for so much.

[From the Bunker]

Absolutely no guarantees that City win the CL. Other clubs have had money and big names and haven't done it. There's a knack to winning in Europe which Liverpool, Madrid, Bayern and a few others know. Sport is like that. History and tradition count for so much.

Liverpool's decent record has a lot to do with 'The European nights at Anfield'. Passionate home support like that will always give you a chance in any tie.

[ONeill]

The Champions League is a cup competition, glorified now because of money. Porto won it, even Spurs and Arsenal reached the final.

The measure of a great team is winning their league repeatedly, especially in England, Spain, Germany and Italy.

[ONeill]

Absolutely no guarantees that City win the CL. Other clubs have had money and big names and haven't done it. There's a knack to winning in Europe which Liverpool, Madrid, Bayern and a few others know. Sport is like that. History and tradition count for so much.

That's absolute bollocks. Liverpool have won 3 in the last 40 years. None have any link to the other, bar tenuous. 2 were won on penalties. If you're a big club, like Liverpool and Madrid etc, then that's a decent return. But there's no knack unless you can define it.

[seafoid]

Absolutely no guarantees that City win the CL. Other clubs have had money and big names and haven't done it. There's a knack to winning in Europe which Liverpool, Madrid, Bayern and a few others know. Sport is like that. History and tradition count for so much.

If you look.at the win percentages it is the same in every sport.
Psychology wins a lot of the time.

[brokencrossbar1]

Absolutely no guarantees that City win the CL. Other clubs have had money and big names and haven't done it. There's a knack to winning in Europe which Liverpool, Madrid, Bayern and a few others know. Sport is like that. History and tradition count for so much.

That's absolute bollocks. Liverpool have won 3 in the last 40 years. None have any link to the other, bar tenuous. 2 were won on penalties. If you're a big club, like Liverpool and Madrid etc, then that's a decent return. But there's no knack unless you can define it.

It's not absolute bollocks. The teams that win it generally have won it before. The last 1 time winner was in 1997 with Dortmund. Chelsea are a recent phenomenon and won a 2nd last year. You mention Spurs and Arsenal and yes they have made the final once and didn't win it. Like all sports certain teams will always do well. The jersey, the tradition, the history, the home pitch, all of these play into the psychological advantage of winning. Madrid have it, Milan have it, Liverpool have it, United under Fergie had it but that was personality driven as opposed to club driven as is clear. Arsenal were the same under Wenger. They are developing nicely under Arteta but still a bit off. You're being obtuse if you refuse to see it.

[Mike Tyson]

Absolutely no guarantees that City win the CL. Other clubs have had money and big names and haven't done it. There's a knack to winning in Europe which Liverpool, Madrid, Bayern and a few others know. Sport is like that. History and tradition count for so much.

That's absolute bollocks. Liverpool have won 3 in the last 40 years. None have any link to the other, bar tenuous. 2 were won on penalties. If you're a big club, like Liverpool and Madrid etc, then that's a decent return. But there's no knack unless you can define it.

It's not absolute bollocks. The teams that win it generally have won it before. The last 1 time winner was in 1997 with Dortmund. Chelsea are a recent phenomenon and won a 2nd last year. You mention Spurs and Arsenal and yes they have made the final once and didn't win it. Like all sports certain teams will always do well. The jersey, the tradition, the history, the home pitch, all of these play into the psychological advantage of winning. Madrid have it, Milan have it, Liverpool have it, United under Fergie had it but that was personality driven as opposed to club driven as is clear. Arsenal were the same under Wenger. They are developing nicely under Arteta but still a bit off. You're being obtuse if you refuse to see it.

I'd agree with Madrid but the other two have won it the same amount as Chelsea have in the previous 20 years?

More than anything you need massive amounts of luck. How many winners in the last 20 years have actually been the best in Europe, 8 from 20 at a push?

[Milltown Row2]

How many were actually champions?

[J70]

Absolutely no guarantees that City win the CL. Other clubs have had money and big names and haven't done it. There's a knack to winning in Europe which Liverpool, Madrid, Bayern and a few others know. Sport is like that. History and tradition count for so much.

You also have the issue of Pep bizarrely and repeatedly losing his marbles before big European games and inflicting very questionable tactics and line-ups on what is usually an extremely effective team.

[johnnycool]

Absolutely no guarantees that City win the CL. Other clubs have had money and big names and haven't done it. There's a knack to winning in Europe which Liverpool, Madrid, Bayern and a few others know. Sport is like that. History and tradition count for so much.

And a big slice of luck.

[brokencrossbar1]

Since the reconstruction of the CL in 1992 Madrid have obviously dominated it followed by the great Barca team. Juve have got to a lot of finals but won it only once. LFC and United among others have gotten to 4 finals and won 2. In the same period they also got to 2 Europa League finals winning and losing one a piece. If you just take it as a record from when football was invented in 1992 that's a decent record and better than most of getting to and winning finals.

The reality is though that this is only part of it. Prior to the invention of football in 1992 LFC had 5 European Cup 4 wins, bettered by Madrid who won the first 6 of them when it was very much in its infancy. Very telling the never won again for over 30 years and the Spanish government starting re-investing in the club. LFC were matched by the great Milan team of the late 80's in terms of number but no one else. Milan, and Italian football in general,  regressed for years and is only now slowly rebuilding. If you can't see that LFC has the winning pedigree at Europe you are deliberately being blind by the fact that football has been skewed by the money drivers in the past few decades

[ONeill]

Liverpool are a big club in a big league
Utd are a big club
Barca and Madrid are big clubs
Munich is a big club.
PSG and City are big clubs albeit recent and they'll start winning the CL.

There's no knack. It's the pull of the big club due to success before the CL arrived. The best players will want to play for those clubs.

Liverpool in 05 was an anomaly.

[From the Bunker]

Liverpool are a big club in a big league
Utd are a big club
Barca and Madrid are big clubs
Munich is a big club.
PSG and City are big clubs albeit recent and they'll start winning the CL.

There's no knack. It's the pull of the big club due to success before the CL arrived. The best players will want to play for those clubs.

Liverpool in 05 was an anomaly.

Yes, but clubs like Liverpool expect! We have a history revered on the Kop. Paisley, Shankley, Dalgish etc are acknowledged! With history behind you, you will always have a better chance.

If that Liverpool side were lucky winning in 2005 and it was a one off, then how did virtually the same team get to the final in 2007?