Assaults at GAA games

[Baile Brigín 2]

I've never been to an amateur or Sunday league soccer game - does the same go on there or is it worse at GAA games?

Never heard of a referee being stabbed at the soccer, so no.

But why even start the whataboutery

I don't think O'Neill is going for the "whataboutery" angle. Seemed like a genuine question to me.

I too would be interested in the answer. I am imaging there wouldn't be the same vitriol as you don't have the same parish vibes and that the soccer games are a gather up of people from everywhere with less spectators.

Referees went on strike in Dublin and last year. Abuse happens. The difference is it isn't tolerated.

And spare us the 'we are more passionate' justification

What shite are you spouting now? Who is the "we" ?

I am saying that GAA club matches probably have more of a crowd and the crowd has more of a connection to the team given the parish rule compared to an amateur soccer team who can transfer players in from everywhere.

I am also none the wiser as to whether the same abuse and vitriol is directed at referees in the amateur soccer league games.

You are saying that any better behaviour towords referees in soccer is because soccer fans aren't passionate enough to attack referees. Are you sure about that?

I think abuse of referees happens along the same lines in soccer. But the associations deal with it robustly, which simply doesn't happen in the GAA

[Baile Brigín 2]

Is there a bit of conflation going on?

Not to take away from the seriousness of the situation; or from the very obvious problem we have at club level when it comes to respecting match officials, verbal abuse, assaults etc... but it's not like this sort of incident is a regular occurrence - especially at a juvenile match. A couple of posters have provided some context with regards to the alleged perpetrator who it seems has some behavioural issues. Talk of a referee strike is a bit ott.

I recently heard abuse being shouted at a referee at an under 8s tournament, by fully grown men. This is not the rare occurrence you think it is.

I'm talking about someone pulling a knife - it's unheard of.
Verbal abuse is rampant.

Key point is where do we, as GAA people, draw the line?

Is physical abuse not ok but verbal abuse ok?

Do we say to kids who are getting bullied, take the verbal bullying but tell someone when it start to get physical?

Good opportunity now for the GAA, and especially Jarlath Burns, to draw up a proper code of conduct and tie it in with disclipline.

Over to the GAA now.

It's a cliche, but the goys have this sorted. Egg chasing does not tolerate it.

[jcpen]

All starts off with hurley stuff where Refs ignore loads of fouls......

Ah yeah it's the hurling crowds fault, surprised you haven't blamed the soccer ball lads also, anybody but the Gaelic Football crowd eh...

[Milltown Row2]

All starts off with hurley stuff where Refs ignore loads of fouls......

Ah yeah it's the hurling crowds fault, surprised you haven't blamed the soccer ball lads also, anybody but the Gaelic Football crowd eh...

Wouldn't know a Gaelic football if it hit him in the face

[smort]

A few things

- rulebook needs enforced. The rules are currently there to deal with players / managements indiscretions
- meaningful bans/suspensions
- appeal process needs tightened. Far too many people get off after appeal
- starting now, in fundamentals/go-games, players need to be coached to respect the referee. Maybe a 'quiet sideline' to stop parents getting overly involved and setting a bad example

[Sportacus]

A few things

- rulebook needs enforced. The rules are currently there to deal with players / managements indiscretions
- meaningful bans/suspensions
- appeal process needs tightened. Far too many people get off after appeal
- starting now, in fundamentals/go-games, players need to be coached to respect the referee. Maybe a 'quiet sideline' to stop parents getting overly involved and setting a bad example

Agree with your sentiment, but the rule book is probably part of the problem.  It's just a ramble of rules that have been edited and added to over the years . It's clearly full of holes and contradictions, hence the Appeal merchants.  A suggestion for Jarlath on his first day - appoint some experts, they don't need to be GAA, to look at the rule book end to end and propose how it could be amended to remove the loopholes.

[barelegs]

The referee in this case refereed on behalf of Ballinderry; has he changed clubs or was there a conscious decision by Tyrone county board to get an "outside" referee for championship games?

He's been refereeing in Tyrone for a few years now as a Clonoe referee

[JohnDenver]

I've never been to an amateur or Sunday league soccer game - does the same go on there or is it worse at GAA games?

Never heard of a referee being stabbed at the soccer, so no.

But why even start the whataboutery

I don't think O'Neill is going for the "whataboutery" angle. Seemed like a genuine question to me.

I too would be interested in the answer. I am imaging there wouldn't be the same vitriol as you don't have the same parish vibes and that the soccer games are a gather up of people from everywhere with less spectators.

Referees went on strike in Dublin and last year. Abuse happens. The difference is it isn't tolerated.

And spare us the 'we are more passionate' justification

What shite are you spouting now? Who is the "we" ?

I am saying that GAA club matches probably have more of a crowd and the crowd has more of a connection to the team given the parish rule compared to an amateur soccer team who can transfer players in from everywhere.

I am also none the wiser as to whether the same abuse and vitriol is directed at referees in the amateur soccer league games.

You are saying that any better behaviour towords referees in soccer is because soccer fans aren't passionate enough to attack referees. Are you sure about that?

I think abuse of referees happens along the same lines in soccer. But the associations deal with it robustly, which simply doesn't happen in the GAA

Absolutely never said such a thing. If you have 200 people at a match, there is more likelihood of a trouble maker being in attendance compared to a crowd of 20.

Also with increased numbers comes increased chances of people clashing with each other, verbally or physically in the crowd.

I don't know how soccer deals with abuse of referees. I do know that there are far too many loopholes and appeals in GAA when it comes to punishments and sanctions. Instead of sucking it up and taking your medicine, a lot of people's first reaction is to try and get out of the suspension.

There should be zero tolerance to abuse of referees, in any shape or form. Without them, there would simply be no games.

[armaghniac]

Is there a bit of conflation going on?

Not to take away from the seriousness of the situation; or from the very obvious problem we have at club level when it comes to respecting match officials, verbal abuse, assaults etc... but it's not like this sort of incident is a regular occurrence - especially at a juvenile match. A couple of posters have provided some context with regards to the alleged perpetrator who it seems has some behavioural issues. Talk of a referee strike is a bit ott.

Still there is merit in the concept that an orderly environment gives less encouragement to excessive individuals. For sure, most of us might lose the rag and start waving our watch at the ref (or whatever), but some people will carry on beyond that if anti referee agitation is normalised.

[screenexile]

The referee in this case refereed on behalf of Ballinderry; has he changed clubs or was there a conscious decision by Tyrone county board to get an "outside" referee for championship games?

I think referees can move to other counties if the matches fees are higher - Tyrone referees definitely do games in Fermanagh

Happens all the time, Derry has Tyrone and Donegal refs on their list.

One of the text pieces from the WhatsApps last night was that Chicken 'fixed the game for Cookstown to win'... Jesus wept

I'd love to know who these men are forking out cash to a referee to fix an U16 game. . . would need to be a grand or more to make it worth your while especially if there's a chance you'll get stabbed!!

I'm only half joking there it's a serious situation of course and horrific as well but how can people think someone's ponying up to get an U16 game fixed?

[thewobbler]

I've never been to an amateur or Sunday league soccer game - does the same go on there or is it worse at GAA games?

Never heard of a referee being stabbed at the soccer, so no.

But why even start the whataboutery

I don't think O'Neill is going for the "whataboutery" angle. Seemed like a genuine question to me.

I too would be interested in the answer. I am imaging there wouldn't be the same vitriol as you don't have the same parish vibes and that the soccer games are a gather up of people from everywhere with less spectators.

Referees went on strike in Dublin and last year. Abuse happens. The difference is it isn't tolerated.

And spare us the 'we are more passionate' justification

What shite are you spouting now? Who is the "we" ?

I am saying that GAA club matches probably have more of a crowd and the crowd has more of a connection to the team given the parish rule compared to an amateur soccer team who can transfer players in from everywhere.

I am also none the wiser as to whether the same abuse and vitriol is directed at referees in the amateur soccer league games.

You are saying that any better behaviour towords referees in soccer is because soccer fans aren't passionate enough to attack referees. Are you sure about that?

I think abuse of referees happens along the same lines in soccer. But the associations deal with it robustly, which simply doesn't happen in the GAA

Absolutely never said such a thing. If you have 200 people at a match, there is more likelihood of a trouble maker being in attendance compared to a crowd of 20.

Also with increased numbers comes increased chances of people clashing with each other, verbally or physically in the crowd.

I don't know how soccer deals with abuse of referees. I do know that there are far too many loopholes and appeals in GAA when it comes to punishments and sanctions. Instead of sucking it up and taking your medicine, a lot of people's first reaction is to try and get out of the suspension.

There should be zero tolerance to abuse of referees, in any shape or form. Without them, there would simply be no games.

I don't believe crowd size is the issue, so much as virtually no sanctions in place for lack of control over supporters.

The way I see it is that if St Mary's were likely to lose a home fixture because their supporter big John Smith can't keep his mouth shut, then St Mary's wouldn't be long finding ways to educate or exclude Big John Smith.

Whereas at the minute, it's a load of nonsense, for if the same Big John Smith happens to get fingered for his actions, he'll get an 8 week ban from GAA games. And he'll be at matches every week for those 8 weeks.

[Milltown Row2]

The referee in this case refereed on behalf of Ballinderry; has he changed clubs or was there a conscious decision by Tyrone county board to get an "outside" referee for championship games?

I think referees can move to other counties if the matches fees are higher - Tyrone referees definitely do games in Fermanagh

Happens all the time, Derry has Tyrone and Donegal refs on their list.

One of the text pieces from the WhatsApps last night was that Chicken 'fixed the game for Cookstown to win'... Jesus wept

I'd love to know who these men are forking out cash to a referee to fix an U16 game. . . would need to be a grand or more to make it worth your while especially if there's a chance you'll get stabbed!!

I'm only half joking there it's a serious situation of course and horrific as well but how can people think someone's ponying up to get an U16 game fixed?

People are buffoons, they'll believe what they want and what suits...

Was it under 16 championship or league? Not that it matters, how tight was the game? I remember coming off the pitch and there was 25 points in it, of course the manager was blaming me, I pointed to the scoreboard and asked him to have a word with himself.

Policing games for clubs is difficult, the biggest nuisance is non members excuse! He's not a member so we can't ban him or whatever, then the club should take the hit. No home games all age groups for the season. And life time ban for these guys to enter a ground, fines if seen at a ground.

Be interesting to see what comes from the county's investigation and what Croke park do

[RedHand88]

The referee in this case refereed on behalf of Ballinderry; has he changed clubs or was there a conscious decision by Tyrone county board to get an "outside" referee for championship games?

I think referees can move to other counties if the matches fees are higher - Tyrone referees definitely do games in Fermanagh

Happens all the time, Derry has Tyrone and Donegal refs on their list.

One of the text pieces from the WhatsApps last night was that Chicken 'fixed the game for Cookstown to win'... Jesus wept

Another I heard was that the referee "was bad for both teams"

What does this even mean?!? If a referee is bad for one team would that not be good for the other team? I am so confused by the logic.

[rrhf]

I've never been to an amateur or Sunday league soccer game - does the same go on there or is it worse at GAA games?

Never heard of a referee being stabbed at the soccer, so no.

But why even start the whataboutery

I don't think O'Neill is going for the "whataboutery" angle. Seemed like a genuine question to me.

I too would be interested in the answer. I am imaging there wouldn't be the same vitriol as you don't have the same parish vibes and that the soccer games are a gather up of people from everywhere with less spectators.

Referees went on strike in Dublin and last year. Abuse happens. The difference is it isn't tolerated.

And spare us the 'we are more passionate' justification

What shite are you spouting now? Who is the "we" ?

I am saying that GAA club matches probably have more of a crowd and the crowd has more of a connection to the team given the parish rule compared to an amateur soccer team who can transfer players in from everywhere.

I am also none the wiser as to whether the same abuse and vitriol is directed at referees in the amateur soccer league games.

You are saying that any better behaviour towords referees in soccer is because soccer fans aren't passionate enough to attack referees. Are you sure about that?

I think abuse of referees happens along the same lines in soccer. But the associations deal with it robustly, which simply doesn't happen in the GAA

Absolutely never said such a thing. If you have 200 people at a match, there is more likelihood of a trouble maker being in attendance compared to a crowd of 20.

Also with increased numbers comes increased chances of people clashing with each other, verbally or physically in the crowd.

I don't know how soccer deals with abuse of referees. I do know that there are far too many loopholes and appeals in GAA when it comes to punishments and sanctions. Instead of sucking it up and taking your medicine, a lot of people's first reaction is to try and get out of the suspension.

There should be zero tolerance to abuse of referees, in any shape or form. Without them, there would simply be no games.

I don't believe crowd size is the issue, so much as virtually no sanctions in place for lack of control over supporters.

The way I see it is that if St Mary's were likely to lose a home fixture because their supporter big John Smith can't keep his mouth shut, then St Mary's wouldn't be long finding ways to educate or exclude Big John Smith.

Whereas at the minute, it's a load of nonsense, for if the same Big John Smith happens to get fingered for his actions, he'll get an 8 week ban from GAA games. And he'll be at matches every week for those 8 weeks.

In fairness Big John Smith buys the lotto and his uncle was a club legend.. let's curb the mouths, thank the referees and straight reds for anyone on the pitch.

[SaffronSports]

Would limiting access to the pitch help a bit? It's not something I'd take lightly as I think it's great to see the kids on the pitch at HT and FT but in other sports, once someone accesses the pitch there's usually stewards after them whereas in GAA nobody would bat an eyelid until it might be too late?