Official Cavan GAA Thread

[put-it-up]

I dont think DK will be brought back now lads - come on! Pure Hoganstand shite - I gave up in it ages ago. Couldn't even tell you that last time I posted on it!

Wonder if any of the local bookies have prices for a new gaffer yet?

[beer baron]

Any sign of prices for the championships?Gaels are hardly anything bigger than 1/3?

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

Any sign of prices for the championships?Gaels are hardly anything bigger than 1/3?

Here you are from Paddy Power. I think Dougal posted these a while back but there's been some movement
Win Only
Cavan Gaels    1/2
   
Beltubret    16/1
   
Cuchulainn    33/1
Castlerahan    13/2
   
Kingscourt    16/1
   
Lacken    50/1
Killygarry    8/1
   
Redhills    16/1
   
Lavey    66/1
Mullahoran    8/1
   
Gowna    20/1
   
Ballinagh    66/1
Denn    12/1
   
Ramor Utd    20/1
   
Crosserlough    100

[beer baron]

1/2 for the Gaels  it may sound weird but that seems like great value seeing as it's highly doubtful anyone will get within an asses roar of them!

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

Yeah there's no offer for each way so there's no huge incentive to back any of the others.

[put-it-up]

No Value in them prices at all with no each-way. Hard to look past the Gaels. I'm gonna put my two houses on them - I need one more for the kids.

The fact that the second favourite is 13/2 pretty much shows how much of a one-horse race it is. Kingscourt were 33/1 at the start. Some money must have went that way 

[BigMac]

So hes definitely gone, and they say terry Hyland is the favourit to get the job. No offence to Terry, but I have played under him and I don't think this is a progressive move for the county if he gets the job. His "tactics" are basic at best and I dont think he has the ability to see how to change a game if its not going well.

Cavan board confirms Carr's departure

Cavan manager Tommy Carr
15 July 2010


Tommy Carr's two-year reign as Cavan football manager officially ended last night.

The Cavan county board issued a statement confirming the former Dublin and Roscommon supremo's departure in the wake of last Saturday's 0-4 to 1-19 mauling by Cork in the All-Ireland qualifiers.

Carr succeeded Donal Keogan at the end of 2008, but had to survive a vote of no confidence last August to hold on to his job. Following their defeat to Fermanagh in the first round of this year's Ulster SFC, the Breffnimen registered a remarkable comeback win over Wicklow with just 13 players before being brought crashing back down to earth with a bang last weekend.



The county board statement read: "After some considerable thought, Tom believes that it would be to the benefit of all involved for him to step aside as manager of the Cavan senior team, and in doing so he wishes the best for Cavan football.

"The chairman and officers of Cavan county board would like to express our gratitude to Tom Carr for his efforts in our county, and wish him and his family health and good luck in the future."

Lacken's Terry Hyland, who managed the Cavan under 21 and junior teams to provincial final appearances this year, is the early favourite to succeed Carr.

[Terry Coyle]

Lacken's Terry Hyland, who managed the Cavan under 21 and junior teams to provincial final appearances this year, is the early favourite to succeed Carr.

Holy sh*t from bad to worse. Agree with you Mac, has no tactics whatsoever terrible decision if they go ahead with this.

[Denn Forever]

How can it get any worse?

We are not as good as we think we are so maybe we'll have to reach rock bottom before we improve.

[cavanmaniac]

If Terry Hyland gets the job then it's official...the county board either has no clue about the nature of the problems facing the county side and worse, no ambition to put it right. Will Terry Hyland inspire all the absentees to come back and give the county team their support? I doubt it. He seems to be a good club manager but I genuinely believe he'd be totally out of his depth at senior intercounty level.

I bumped into highly respected manager a fortnight ago, one who knows the county well and a man we all respect, and I mentioned Hyland to him as the likely soft-option replacement for Carr (after Cork would inevitably hammer us). He just looked at me and shook his head.

If this is the first move made by a new chairman with a chance now to show he has his head screwed on, means business and is in touch with the challenge, then the mind boggles. I give up.

[BigMac]

How can it get any worse?

We are not as good as we think we are so maybe we'll have to reach rock bottom before we improve.

Are we not at rock bottom now? Losing to fermanagh makes us the worst team in Ulster, and a 19 point beating only scoring 4 points..... surely we cant go any lower? 

[Terry Coyle]

I honestly think we are not rock bottom.. If we were rock bottom we would have been relegated from division 3 and not won one championship game this year. Lets face it, the Cork game was the worst draw we could have got. Its as if you could feel the whole county just sigh and say "Ah well, thats the end of the championship for another year!". Once the players went down a few points, away to Cork the belief simply wasnt there. Heads dropped and was no way back. Now the question of heads dropping is another story but this game is not a fair reflection od where we are at.

In my opinion, there are 3 elite teams in the country - Cork, Kerry and Tyrone. We happened to meet one of them and what happened, well lets just forget it. Are we worse than Louth, Sligo or Limerick?? Not a chance.

What the real worry is why cant we up our game for Fermanagh for example. The lads prepare as well as anyone else (and I mean) but what the difference is passion, belief and real leaders. Thats what happened against Wicklow - Jelly came on and lifted the team with some good scores and everyone else lifted their games, you could see the drive and belief then.

Whats needed now is to try and get that from the start of a game.. Too man lads afraid to play in case they make a mistake, f**k it, we need a corner back to put a midfielder on his arse, pass it on take a return pass and slot it between the posts. We need a centre back to come steaming through the middle and set up a score. We need the corner forward to make block on his own 45 after chasing his man for 70 yards. If we dont believe firstly then we are going nowhere.

We need a passionate manager to instill this in to the players and say just go for the juggler - if the goal is on, go for it. Terry Hyland is not that man. Now I dont know who is within the county but if we start thinking we are useless then we will play useless. From my own club if we thought we had no hope of beating Galls last year then we wouldnt have given them probably their toughest game of the year.

Lets get a man in who can put ashiver down your spine before you leave that dressing room. An Cabhán abu.

[The Konica]

I honestly think we are not rock bottom.. If we were rock bottom we would have been relegated from division 3 and not won one championship game this year. Lets face it, the Cork game was the worst draw we could have got. Its as if you could feel the whole county just sigh and say "Ah well, thats the end of the championship for another year!". Once the players went down a few points, away to Cork the belief simply wasnt there. Heads dropped and was no way back. Now the question of heads dropping is another story but this game is not a fair reflection od where we are at.

In my opinion, there are 3 elite teams in the country - Cork, Kerry and Tyrone. We happened to meet one of them and what happened, well lets just forget it. Are we worse than Louth, Sligo or Limerick?? Not a chance.

What the real worry is why cant we up our game for Fermanagh for example. The lads prepare as well as anyone else (and I mean) but what the difference is passion, belief and real leaders. Thats what happened against Wicklow - Jelly came on and lifted the team with some good scores and everyone else lifted their games, you could see the drive and belief then.

Whats needed now is to try and get that from the start of a game.. Too man lads afraid to play in case they make a mistake, f**k it, we need a corner back to put a midfielder on his arse, pass it on take a return pass and slot it between the posts. We need a centre back to come steaming through the middle and set up a score. We need the corner forward to make block on his own 45 after chasing his man for 70 yards. If we dont believe firstly then we are going nowhere.

We need a passionate manager to instill this in to the players and say just go for the juggler - if the goal is on, go for it. Terry Hyland is not that man. Now I dont know who is within the county but if we start thinking we are useless then we will play useless. From my own club if we thought we had no hope of beating Galls last year then we wouldnt have given them probably their toughest game of the year.

Lets get a man in who can put ashiver down your spine before you leave that dressing room. An Cabhán abu.

I agree with alot of what you said .... but ...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if Cavan were playing either of those 3, I'd bet on them.

Cavan may or may not be 'at rock bottom', but they're so close it's not worth arguing the point. There are 8 better teams (currently) above them in Ulster. It's been many a year since a Cavan team were at that level.

You are right, Cork was a bad draw, but that's life - if you can't beat them at least compete with them. I don't see any excuse not to score 9 or 10 points against them regardless.

The thing most Cavan people, who are a proud honest people, hate most about the Cavan performance was the manner in which the heads dropped and they effectively rolled over. That's not the character of a winning team or an ambitious team.
The heartlessness was the most painful aspect of it.

You express concern over the Fermanagh game - but that's the same point as was evident against Cork - but far more. Lack of pride and drive. The only difference was that against Cork it was badly shown up for what it was.

Now, passion and drive alone will not win games. A cool, calculated manager is needed to prepare the team and the backroom team to in turn prepare the team of players. These are rare, but there are good managers out there.

You're last point is very valid. You need to believe in yourself - BUT you need to be honest with yourself. You can only believe in yourself if you can back it up, and only when you have something solid to believe in - and at the minute it would be foolish to think there is a set up there to believe in. 

The players also need someone they can believe in and this doesn't need to be a big name. Look at Ryan in Wexford as a perfect example. They need someone with charisma, honesty and intelligence who they can trust and want to play under him as they see he can help them achieve success.
   
Two things are needed.
- A root and branch review of the county football scene, with a comparison of the county set up with 4 other successful counties and identify the 6 common things that stand out as success factors. It might things like a strong school system, it might be a coach training program or a big focus on the key U16 age group ... etc etc. But boil it down to 6 things and get the best people in the county to manage them.
- A complete review of the Senior county team set up. This takes place BEFORE the new manager is appointed. Look at other counties and see what they have done, who they've gone for. I'd also speak to 4 or 5 of the senior panel to get their thoughts. Also identify the key things that a successful SFC team has in place. Only then look for a manager.

There is no point on sticking the knife in Tommy Carr any more, his reign is over, but the next man in better be a hell of man, or the next 3 years will start with a false dawn year 1, and 2 years of wishing and hoping.



... or maybe I haven't a clue! 

[Terry Coyle]

Firstly, I'm not in a bubble 

Point I was trying to make was that Louth, Fermanagh and Limerick are not better than us, but where they do better is that they can raise their game come Championship. We dont seem to have that, we appear to play at the same level of the league, no ruthlessness. In the Fermanagh game I cant remember any bust ups with players squaring up or a player showing his man he was no push over.

All what you said is basically agreeing with me. Bottom line is no real leaders in key positions.

Some good ideas there alright. What do you think of the number of clubs in Cavan? I think it is too many but I have no figures of what other counties numbers are so if anyone has that info then I would love to see it. Or even figures of the amount of clubs in Cavan back in the day when we were actually winning All-Irelands.

[The Konica]

I agree, no bust ups, no aggression - no one caring! (Ok that's a bit harsh) but no passion.

Leaders are needed - but they never come first without a good leader on the sidelines that encourages and fosters the players he sees as leaders. Then after time you get leaders on the field. But it's a process. As an example McGeeney played for years before he developed leadership qualities.

Personally I think much of the problem resides at CB level.
None of them knows what it really takes to win at the level of an USFC anymore - forget about the old days - that's so long past. They haven't a clue, and haven't the ruthlessness needed to go out and get the right man and get the right people in place.

Let's be honest, who thought Carr would be any different this year? What signs were there? The CB should have gotten rid of him when they saw the direction things were going in (that's not being harsh as he's a lovely guy). Also if they were a really ruthless determined bunch they'd have approached a few people already and been getting someone lined up to take over already! Not honorable - but at the end of the year it's about wins versus losses isn't it?


Don't ask me who, but I'd go for someone like Aidan O'Rourke.

But whoever .. they have to have the following qualities ...
- Someone who has one an AI in the past 10 years - the way IC teams are ran now has changed so much, older than that is a different era. Also with a AI in the hip pocket it immediately gets the players respect to start.
- Someone who has some experience of managing or been in a recent IC management team
- Been with another Intercounty team, not just club team - the step-up from club to Intercounty is HUGE
- Someone with a good, Intelligent football brain, someone shrewd
- Have to be ambitious and someone that Cavan know they'll have a fight to keep after 2 years
- They'd have to be able to manage people well and have a good network to call on

Find the right person and just offer them whatever they want ala Banty and Grimley. Whatever it takes. 

And if they get the job they are given complete autonomy and let get on with the job.