Official Cavan GAA Thread

[Bananas]

Killygarry had agreed to join with Denn for the Championship but Cavan Gaels then got in contact with Killygarry and they joined with them instead..

Seems like bad sportsmanship on Killygarry's half if they had previously agreed to join with Denn, a team which they joined with in recent years if I'm not mistaken. If this is the case then I'm glad to see nothing come of the Gaels/Killygarry amalgamation.

In my opinion the Gaels would have been better off and more competitive on their own and the same can be said for several other teams who amalgamated simply because it appears to be the ''trend'' at this time.

Was sorry to see Templeport take a hiding. I had hoped to see them do well and all credit to them for not amalgamating when they didn't need to. It should stand to them next year when O Raghallaigh Gaels and Cavan Gaels are weak and them (Templeport) and Ramor should compete in a competitive race for Division 1 silverware.

The same can probably be said for most of the teams that amalgamated solely for the championship. These nonsensical amalgamations shouldn't be going on and isn't going to help anybody in the long run. Never have I heard of so many young players quitting football in such a short space of time as has happened this summer.

As for that shambles of a result in Division 2 well I think that speaks for itself. The responsibility for that shambles of a result falls solely on the shoulders of the County Minor Board. Denn were also annihilated in the opening round fixture and Mullahoran would've most likely been beaten by a lot more than 8 points had they have faced a stronger team.

People say that because we won a few Ulster titles at underage level in the past few years that things are on the up. I can't remember a time when things were worse within the club setup - both at minor, junior and senior level. Resignations need to be announced and a serious review of the current structure is in dire need. 

[boojangles]

Killygarry had agreed to join with Denn for the Championship but Cavan Gaels then got in contact with Killygarry and they joined with them instead..

Seems like bad sportsmanship on Killygarry's half if they had previously agreed to join with Denn, a team which they joined with in recent years if I'm not mistaken. If this is the case then I'm glad to see nothing come of the Gaels/Killygarry amalgamation.

In my opinion the Gaels would have been better off and more competitive on their own and the same can be said for several other teams who amalgamated simply because it appears to be the ''trend'' at this time.

Was sorry to see Templeport take a hiding. I had hoped to see them do well and all credit to them for not amalgamating when they didn't need to. It should stand to them next year when O Raghallaigh Gaels and Cavan Gaels are weak and them (Templeport) and Ramor should compete in a competitive race for Division 1 silverware.

The same can probably be said for most of the teams that amalgamated solely for the championship. These nonsensical amalgamations shouldn't be going on and isn't going to help anybody in the long run. Never have I heard of so many young players quitting football in such a short space of time as has happened this summer.

As for that shambles of a result in Division 2 well I think that speaks for itself. The responsibility for that shambles of a result falls solely on the shoulders of the County Minor Board. Denn were also annihilated in the opening round fixture and Mullahoran would've most likely been beaten by a lot more than 8 points had they have faced a stronger team.

People say that because we won a few Ulster titles at underage level in the past few years that things are on the up. I can't remember a time when things were worse within the club setup - both at minor, junior and senior level. Resignations need to be announced and a serious review of the current structure is in dire need. 

Amalgamations in some cases DO work and have worked for some clubs. St Joes and Redbridge being prime examples. It is far too early to say about some other 'experiments'. You say that you have never heard of so many young lads quitting football. What club are you involved in or what clubs are you referring to? I agree that it is getting harder and harder to keep lads committed these days but that is for a number of reasons and not solely amalgamations. The standard of coaching being a prime example.
I agree that the club scene is in a very poor state in Cavan at the moment but we have been doing the same things in Cavan for as long as I can remember and they haven't improved anything so maybe its time we tried something different? I think thats where the Board are coming from also. Not having a Division 3 was obviously a big mistake and there will be repercussions over it I'd imagine.
Amalgamations is encouraging elitism which will not please everybody but it really is up to clubs to decide which road they want to go down. Compete on their own and maybe take a hiding or amalgamate and try and be competitive. That might be a simplistic view but it rings true in a lot of clubs.

[drici]

[Bananas]

Amalgamations in some cases DO work and have worked for some clubs. St Joes and Redbridge being prime examples. It is far too early to say about some other 'experiments'. You say that you have never heard of so many young lads quitting football. What club are you involved in or what clubs are you referring to? I agree that it is getting harder and harder to keep lads committed these days but that is for a number of reasons and not solely amalgamations. The standard of coaching being a prime example.
I agree that the club scene is in a very poor state in Cavan at the moment but we have been doing the same things in Cavan for as long as I can remember and they haven't improved anything so maybe its time we tried something different? I think thats where the Board are coming from also. Not having a Division 3 was obviously a big mistake and there will be repercussions over it I'd imagine.
Amalgamations is encouraging elitism which will not please everybody but it really is up to clubs to decide which road they want to go down. Compete on their own and maybe take a hiding or amalgamate and try and be competitive. That might be a simplistic view but it rings true in a lot of clubs.

Fair enough St.Joes have been competitive in recent years, despite winning nothing, the amalgamation of Redbridge on the other hand has obviously not been a success seeing as they felt the need to add another team to the setup (Belturbet) . I'd rather not say what club I am involved in but I can say that my club has been involved in amalgamations in recent years and it has caused several players to be denied the chance to develop and has led to many quitting football altogether. This is the case among several clubs around the county and any other honest trainers/managers will tell you that.

I agree that the standard of coaching is poor at the minute and measures do need to be taken to improve this but sadly it is an amateur sport and the majority of coaches are only involved because they have a son or relative on the team, but who can blame them. There are very few coaches around that are doing it solely for their love of the game and to those that are, kudos to them. Also it appears that there are more and more senior players getting involved with coaching underage teams within clubs which is great to see.

Some of the amalgamations that have been slapped together for minor this year as just plain silly though and I have been to minor championship games for the last several years and there has been no sign whatsoever of this ''elitism'' this year in my opinion. In fact I would argue that the standard this year has been poorer, especially at division 1 level, than recent years.

No harm in trying something new I suppose, but how long will this continue to go on for before clubs begin to see the repercussions at senior and senior reserve level.

[drici]

[drici]

Gowna 0-02  Killygarry 1-05

Half Time

(winners play Cavan Gaels)

[rodney trotter]

Ballinagh play Mullahoran for the second year in the 1/4 stage. Kingscourt meet Drumgoon, Casterahan against Belturbet and Cavan Gaels against Killygarry by the sound of it.

Impressive win for Cootehill today against Ballyhaise. Mark Mullan is a very handy forward, Dean Connolly attacked well from half back. Useful team, one of the better teams left in it bar Lacken and Crosserlough, and probaly Drumlane too.

[drici]

Gowna 1-10  Killygarry 2-10

(6 minutes were added on)

Killygarry through indeed.

[boojangles]

Amalgamations in some cases DO work and have worked for some clubs. St Joes and Redbridge being prime examples. It is far too early to say about some other 'experiments'. You say that you have never heard of so many young lads quitting football. What club are you involved in or what clubs are you referring to? I agree that it is getting harder and harder to keep lads committed these days but that is for a number of reasons and not solely amalgamations. The standard of coaching being a prime example.
I agree that the club scene is in a very poor state in Cavan at the moment but we have been doing the same things in Cavan for as long as I can remember and they haven't improved anything so maybe its time we tried something different? I think thats where the Board are coming from also. Not having a Division 3 was obviously a big mistake and there will be repercussions over it I'd imagine.
Amalgamations is encouraging elitism which will not please everybody but it really is up to clubs to decide which road they want to go down. Compete on their own and maybe take a hiding or amalgamate and try and be competitive. That might be a simplistic view but it rings true in a lot of clubs.

Fair enough St.Joes have been competitive in recent years, despite winning nothing, the amalgamation of Redbridge on the other hand has obviously not been a success seeing as they felt the need to add another team to the setup (Belturbet) . I'd rather not say what club I am involved in but I can say that my club has been involved in amalgamations in recent years and it has caused several players to be denied the chance to develop and has led to many quitting football altogether. This is the case among several clubs around the county and any other honest trainers/managers will tell you that.

I agree that the standard of coaching is poor at the minute and measures do need to be taken to improve this but sadly it is an amateur sport and the majority of coaches are only involved because they have a son or relative on the team, but who can blame them. There are very few coaches around that are doing it solely for their love of the game and to those that are, kudos to them. Also it appears that there are more and more senior players getting involved with coaching underage teams within clubs which is great to see.

Some of the amalgamations that have been slapped together for minor this year as just plain silly though and I have been to minor championship games for the last several years and there has been no sign whatsoever of this ''elitism'' this year in my opinion. In fact I would argue that the standard this year has been poorer, especially at division 1 level, than recent years.

No harm in trying something new I suppose, but how long will this continue to go on for before clubs begin to see the repercussions at senior and senior reserve level.

Redhills and Butlersbridge have been amalgamating for several years now so just because Belturbet have been added to the mix this year doesn't mean it hasn't worked for them. Redhills won an Intermediate championship in 2008 with a lot of lads who had played at Division 1 level with Redbridge and these lads have kept Redhills at Senior level while Butlersbridge won a Junior championship in 2009 with a lot of lads who had also played underage at Division 1 level. That is success to me.

I think you have missed my point regarding Elitism. My point was that amalgamations encourage a survival of the fittest ethos where the weaker footballers might not get a game which obviously isn't ideal. I wasn't saying that the standard of football has improved. I haven't seen enough underage football this year to comment on that.

I agree that some amalgamations which have happened in the past should never have happened but at the end of the day it is up to each individual club to decide what is best for them in the long run.
As I have said before and I know it is relevant to my own club at U-16/ Minor level, are we better off staying on our own and scraping together a panel of 18 lads (half of whom are committed) to try and compete or are we better off amalgamating and giving the 8-10 lads who are committed a chance to play a so-called better standard of football. That's what it boils down to.

[Celt_Man]

What happens when some of your more committed lads aren't good enough to make an amalgamated team though??

I think amalgamations shouldn't be used when together they have over a dozen subs - which I'm hearing is happening a bit this Minor Championship, i.e. if teams have enough, they should play on their own.

Clubs can take a lazy option - the idea of "it'll be hard work to get our 15+ boys out every week and keep them interested but if we amalgamated, it's easier to look after half of them....

Also I believe there is a notion of winning would be easier and at a higher division (which can be a factor if the coaches' ego is involved) - i.e. we'll put 7 of our best with 8 of your best and we've a great team, sure who'd stop us....  Easier said than done, especially if everyone else is thinking and doing it too

Another of the problems is that there isn't enough divisions for every team to play at a competitive level... i.e. Take the Under 16s, 31 teams do not fit neatly into 3 divisions so within each division there is a massive gap between some teams. 

Added to the fact that each Division was split into two groups of five teams (one group in Div 3 had 6 teams) meaning that most teams only played 5 league games (4 group plus quarter final) - Cavan football will not continue to be at the top of Ulster Underage football if the majority of our Under 16s team only play a handful of games in a season...

Under 14s was the same and worse in some ways, 2 groups in each division but with no quarter final just semi finals - top 2 in each group - meaning after a couple of defeats, most teams had nothing to play for...

I don't know why there is a big problem with Division 4 and possibly Division 5 - they have it in Monaghan with a lot less clubs.  There seems to be a problem with playing 13 and even 11 a side too.

Speaking of Bultersbridge, I know they won a Division 4 Minor League at 11 a side and went on to win a Minor Div 3 Championship later on that year.  A year or two later they won a Junior Championship too....

[PhilsJemmysField]

Anybody see anybody in the championship that has really impressed. Watched McKiernan against BBoro at the weekend had a great first half but as it was a dead rubber not sure you could tell much from it. Curran was also impressive. After that the Cootehill lads really pulled the game out of the fire against Ballyhaise where I though apart from Tierney were not up to much in the forward line. So I suppose so far have have not really seen a stand out game where anybody new is standing out

[boojangles]

What happens when some of your more committed lads aren't good enough to make an amalgamated team though??
I think amalgamations shouldn't be used when together they have over a dozen subs - which I'm hearing is happening a bit this Minor Championship, i.e. if teams have enough, they should play on their own.

Clubs can take a lazy option - the idea of "it'll be hard work to get our 15+ boys out every week and keep them interested but if we amalgamated, it's easier to look after half of them....

Also I believe there is a notion of winning would be easier and at a higher division (which can be a factor if the coaches' ego is involved) - i.e. we'll put 7 of our best with 8 of your best and we've a great team, sure who'd stop us....  Easier said than done, especially if everyone else is thinking and doing it too

Another of the problems is that there isn't enough divisions for every team to play at a competitive level... i.e. Take the Under 16s, 31 teams do not fit neatly into 3 divisions so within each division there is a massive gap between some teams. 

Added to the fact that each Division was split into two groups of five teams (one group in Div 3 had 6 teams) meaning that most teams only played 5 league games (4 group plus quarter final) - Cavan football will not continue to be at the top of Ulster Underage football if the majority of our Under 16s team only play a handful of games in a season...

Under 14s was the same and worse in some ways, 2 groups in each division but with no quarter final just semi finals - top 2 in each group - meaning after a couple of defeats, most teams had nothing to play for...

I don't know why there is a big problem with Division 4 and possibly Division 5 - they have it in Monaghan with a lot less clubs.  There seems to be a problem with playing 13 and even 11 a side too.

Speaking of Bultersbridge, I know they won a Division 4 Minor League at 11 a side and went on to win a Minor Div 3 Championship later on that year.  A year or two later they won a Junior Championship too....

There has to be subs on every team Celt Man. Some lads just won't make it. But if they are committed they will stick at the game and try and improve and in a few years time they should make it if they have the right attitude. Not making a team is no reason to walk away from the game.
You call it the lazy option. I am only talking from the perspective of my own club and I have seen both sides. If the lazy option is constantly calling to lads and trying to persuade them to come out for training like some coaches are doing or scraping together 15 for a challenge then I'd love to know what the hard option is.
Some lads will walk away from the game after Minor. That is a fact. To be brutally honest I would be more worried about giving the lads who will stick at it after 18-19 a decent level of football than giving lads a game who will probably quit within a year anyway.

[rodney trotter]

Lots of talented players are lost after minor for different reasons. Playing within your own age group up until your 18 keeps the lads together but then some player might play Junior and get hacked off with it after a few years by not making the senior team or if they are good enough will hold down a place on the senior team. I think they have a u21 league in Monaghan, run during the summer which is good.

Kevin Bouchier was one of Cavan's best players in the Minor Championship last year, he isn't playing any football now.

[scoopmine]

Kevin Bouchier was one of Cavan's best players in the Minor Championship last year, he isn't playing any football now.

He came on as a sib for the u21s against Roscommon. Did he quit the club? Could he be in America for the summer? Talented footballer.

[rodney trotter]

Bouchier wasn't involved with the u21's. Maybe you were thinking of Dara Mcveety as the sub who came on against Ross, he was Minor last year.

Bouchier played a few games with Arva earlier in the year, but hasn't played in the last 3 months so I heard. He isn't in the US either.