Official Cavan GAA Thread

[CC1]

Sorry but your argument doesn't add up. If this amalgamation was agreed upon at the start of the year then how come O'Raghallaigh Gaels didn't compete in the League? And after winning the League why did Kingscourt go ahead with the amalgamation? granted they they had a small panel but if it was sufficient to get through the League then it should have been more than capable of withstanding the championship. Would it have not been more appropriate for Shercock to join up with another smaller club in that area such as Bailieborough, Knockbride or Drumgoon or did they all manage to cope fine in their Minor grade? I get the impression that the Minor Board felt this amalgamation with be the strongest combination in what is a weak minor championship and so they went ahead with it.
That being said congrats to Kingscourt on winning the League and O'Raghallaigh Gaels on winning the championship. I think Dillon, Faulkner, Sankey and Clarke have the ability to become top class footballers. And I'm not one bit bitter. I'm proud of the Gaels lads. It's a testament to both them and the club that it took the makings of two good clubs to beat them.

You ARE bitter. If you want proof, just read your first post again.

Why did Drumgoon and Cootehill compete in the league as Eire Og Celtics? Why didn't Ramor and Killinkere amalgamate for the league? I believe it is to have the top players playing in the top division in order to provide a higher standard of football at minor championship level. That is my take on it anyway. In the league I'm sure both clubs wanted to take a stab at it alone. In hindsight though they should have played as O'Raghallaigh Gaels in the league. Maybe that would have avoided Shercock having to concede a game for not having enough fit players.

Would it have been appropriate for Shercock to join with Bailieborough, Knockbride or Drumgoon? Well Bailieborough would have been a more traditional one, something seems to have happened that made it unworkable for this year anyway. Drumgoon or Knockbride are complete no, no's given our rivalries and no historical or parishonal connection.

Yes it took the makings of two good clubs to beat Cavan Gaels, but fact is that Cavan Gaels have a huge pick compared to any team in the county, and what the county board should be doing is finding a balance so that all clubs can compete. So count yourselves very lucky that at senior level, you do have the advantage of population on your side.

You should be proud of your players surely, but you should also keep the bitterness out of it.

I think you can rule out the accusation of bitterness seeing as some of the neutral contributors on this forum in last 24 hours are against this amalgamation. I just don't think that there's any justifiable reason why the Kingscourt team which comprehensively beat us in the League would need an amalgamation to get through the championship. Regardless of what arrangement was put in place at the start of the year I feel it was wrong for the amalgamation to go ahead. O'Raghallaigh Gaels didnt even have enough jersey for the entire squad during the semi-final because of the amount of subs they had. The majority of those lads saw no championship football. So how is that good for either club when a sizeable majority of their players aren't even playing!

You are bitter because your first post after the final was to say that Shercock and Kingscourt should not have been allowed to amalgamate and that it's no surprise that the Minor board chairman was from Shercock. It is just pure bitterness. Like racingpost said, nobody said a word about the u16 O'RG amalgamation. Why? Because they didn't win.

I wasn't at the semi final but it is good that the lads were enthusiastic enough to tog out for it in such numbers. I know all of the Shercock lads on the panel and not one of them had a bad thing to say about it, that includes the subs. These lads probably wouldn't have had the chance be playing ball if the amalgamation hadn't to happen anyway so that makes your point null and void. Like I said, imagine if the likes of Clarke, Sankey, the Clerkins, Harpur etc not being able to play at all because of lack of numbers...

[Ollie]

Sorry but your argument doesn't add up. If this amalgamation was agreed upon at the start of the year then how come O'Raghallaigh Gaels didn't compete in the League? And after winning the League why did Kingscourt go ahead with the amalgamation? granted they they had a small panel but if it was sufficient to get through the League then it should have been more than capable of withstanding the championship. Would it have not been more appropriate for Shercock to join up with another smaller club in that area such as Bailieborough, Knockbride or Drumgoon or did they all manage to cope fine in their Minor grade? I get the impression that the Minor Board felt this amalgamation with be the strongest combination in what is a weak minor championship and so they went ahead with it.
That being said congrats to Kingscourt on winning the League and O'Raghallaigh Gaels on winning the championship. I think Dillon, Faulkner, Sankey and Clarke have the ability to become top class footballers. And I'm not one bit bitter. I'm proud of the Gaels lads. It's a testament to both them and the club that it took the makings of two good clubs to beat them.

You ARE bitter. If you want proof, just read your first post again.

Why did Drumgoon and Cootehill compete in the league as Eire Og Celtics? Why didn't Ramor and Killinkere amalgamate for the league? I believe it is to have the top players playing in the top division in order to provide a higher standard of football at minor championship level. That is my take on it anyway. In the league I'm sure both clubs wanted to take a stab at it alone. In hindsight though they should have played as O'Raghallaigh Gaels in the league. Maybe that would have avoided Shercock having to concede a game for not having enough fit players.

Would it have been appropriate for Shercock to join with Bailieborough, Knockbride or Drumgoon? Well Bailieborough would have been a more traditional one, something seems to have happened that made it unworkable for this year anyway. Drumgoon or Knockbride are complete no, no's given our rivalries and no historical or parishonal connection.

Yes it took the makings of two good clubs to beat Cavan Gaels, but fact is that Cavan Gaels have a huge pick compared to any team in the county, and what the county board should be doing is finding a balance so that all clubs can compete. So count yourselves very lucky that at senior level, you do have the advantage of population on your side.

You should be proud of your players surely, but you should also keep the bitterness out of it.

I think you can rule out the accusation of bitterness seeing as some of the neutral contributors on this forum in last 24 hours are against this amalgamation. I just don't think that there's any justifiable reason why the Kingscourt team which comprehensively beat us in the League would need an amalgamation to get through the championship. Regardless of what arrangement was put in place at the start of the year I feel it was wrong for the amalgamation to go ahead. O'Raghallaigh Gaels didnt even have enough jersey for the entire squad during the semi-final because of the amount of subs they had. The majority of those lads saw no championship football. So how is that good for either club when a sizeable majority of their players aren't even playing!

You are bitter because your first post after the final was to say that Shercock and Kingscourt should not have been allowed to amalgamate and that it's no surprise that the Minor board chairman was from Shercock. It is just pure bitterness. Like racingpost said, nobody said a word about the u16 O'RG amalgamation. Why? Because they didn't win.

I wasn't at the semi final but it is good that the lads were enthusiastic enough to tog out for it in such numbers. I know all of the Shercock lads on the panel and not one of them had a bad thing to say about it, that includes the subs. These lads probably wouldn't have had the chance be playing ball if the amalgamation hadn't to happen anyway so that makes your point null and void. Like I said, imagine if the likes of Clarke, Sankey, the Clerkins, Harpur etc not being able to play at all because of lack of numbers...

You need to take your head out of the sand. The under 16s amalgamation is completely different seeing as they competed in the League rather than in the minor were Kingscourt won the League and then decided to enter the championship with the inclusion of shercocks best players. I doubt this amalgamation would have taken place had the Minor board Chairman not have a close affiliation with the clubs involved. It simply isn't fair on the other clubs competing that the League champions could enhance their squad for the championship by calling on their neighbours club for their players. Bottom line is Kingscourt had no reason to be involved in an amalgamation at minor level this year.
   

[Celt_Man]

Just a couple of points on this one...

Eire Og Celtic didn't play together in the league just the championship - and I'm sure our players will have improved no end from playing two games (one an absolute hammering) at a higher standard    Although in fairness I think you meant to ask "why did they compete in the C'ship" and not the league.

And I'll play the Devils advocate for a moment, imagine Cavan Gaels were struggling for numbers and decided prior to the league to join up with another club for the championship (I know, I know but bear with me).  Imagine now Cavan Gaels winning the league, still amalgamating for the Championship and then winning it out.... Now could you imagine the hysteria that situation would create??

Now change Cavan Gaels's name with Kingscourt and you have the current situation....

[Ollie]

Just a couple of points on this one...

Eire Og Celtic didn't play together in the league just the championship - and I'm sure our players will have improved no end from playing two games (one an absolute hammering) at a higher standard    Although in fairness I think you meant to ask "why did they compete in the C'ship" and not the league.

And I'll play the Devils advocate for a moment, imagine Cavan Gaels were struggling for numbers and decided prior to the league to join up with another club for the championship (I know, I know but bear with me).  Imagine now Cavan Gaels winning the league, still amalgamating for the Championship and then winning it out.... Now could you imagine the hysteria that situation would create??

Now change Cavan Gaels's name with Kingscourt and you have the current situation....

Any team which is capable of winning the Div 1 Minor League have no justifiable reason for joining an Amalgamation for the championship in the same year. It doesn't matter what club it is.

[boojangles]

Just a couple of points on this one...

Eire Og Celtic didn't play together in the league just the championship - and I'm sure our players will have improved no end from playing two games (one an absolute hammering) at a higher standard    Although in fairness I think you meant to ask "why did they compete in the C'ship" and not the league.

And I'll play the Devils advocate for a moment, imagine Cavan Gaels were struggling for numbers and decided prior to the league to join up with another club for the championship (I know, I know but bear with me).  Imagine now Cavan Gaels winning the league, still amalgamating for the Championship and then winning it out.... Now could you imagine the hysteria that situation would create??Now change Cavan Gaels's name with Kingscourt and you have the current situation....

Good point. There would be some amount of crowing alright.

So who represents Cavan in the St Pauls Belfast tournament now?

[anglocelt39]

There have been amalgamations and banging on about same in Cavan minor football since year dot. And clearly there have to be if there is to be meaningful competition. Clubs exist on the basis of their most senior team being able to choose from a playing population aged 18 to 40 plus this doesn't always mean they can put out a minor team that will cut the mustard. If you go back to the late 70's I remember the Gaels giving a Baileiborough/Shercock amalgamation a right kicking in a County final and I don't recall anybody bitching too much about the relevant amalgamation. Following year the same East Cavan amalgamation suffered a surprise County final defeat against a West Cavan combination that was spread across 2, 3 or 4 parishes depending on which bellyacher you were listening to.

There's another side to Ollie's argument and that's what to do about the number of good underage players from the Gaels club that have been lost to the game over the past 10 years because of, effectively been unable to make the breakthrough to the senior ranks. I'd be no fan of the Gaels but clearly they put serious work in at underage level over the last 10 years. I'm sure there are at least 10 lads lost to the game over that time that would do a job in making the likes of Killygarry, Drumalee more competitive than the are. In fairness I suppose changing your club isn't for everybody but it's just another thing to be looked at if progress is to be made,

[mylestheslasher]

The question about amalgamations is a simple enough one. Is the GAA about getting all players from your local area involved in playing in competition at a suitable level or is it about getting "elite" teams of players to challenge for the top honours in the game. My opinion is that the GAA is all about the former. I believe amalgamations should only be allowed where the two teams involved could not field a team on their own. If Shercock could not field a team they should be compelled to play with another team with a similar problem. If their amalgamation had 35 people togged then there is something wrong there imo. It is my opinion that the county board should create a role for someone to asses whether amalgamations are for necessity or for a hunger to win at all costs. It is also my opinion that clubs should not be leaving any player behind and it is worth noting that the great Henry Shefflin could not make his club U16 team. Sometimes those fringe players can be late bloomers.

[BallyhaiseMan]

Cavan Gaels( amalgamation of Cavan Harps and Cavan Slashers)
O'Raghallaigh Gaels (Kingscourt and Sherock)
Eire Og Celtic(C'hill and Goonies)
I reckon all amalgamations should be disqualified and Ballyhaise(with 10 Under 16's on the team), being the only registered club team left in the last 4 should  therefore be awarded the championship.Whose with me???

[Celt_Man]

Cavan Gaels( amalgamation of Cavan Harps and Cavan Slashers)
O'Raghallaigh Gaels (Kingscourt and Sherock)
Eire Og Celtic(C'hill and Goonies)
I reckon all amalgamations should be disqualified and Ballyhaise(with 10 Under 16's on the team), being the only registered club team left in the last 4 should  therefore be awarded the championship.Whose with me???

If you let us back into the Division 4 Championship where I think we really could have given it a rattle then you've my vote....

[Celt_Man]

Any team which is capable of winning the Div 1 Minor League have no justifiable reason for joining an Amalgamation for the championship in the same year. It doesn't matter what club it is.

My point exactly.... It's opening the door for all sorts of carry on down the line

[Celt_Man]

The question about amalgamations is a simple enough one. Is the GAA about getting all players from your local area involved in playing in competition at a suitable level or is it about getting "elite" teams of players to challenge for the top honours in the game.

And that my friends is the crux of the matter....

[boojangles]

The question about amalgamations is a simple enough one. Is the GAA about getting all players from your local area involved in playing in competition at a suitable level or is it about getting "elite" teams of players to challenge for the top honours in the game.

And that my friends is the crux of the matter....

It's not a cut and dry matter in my eyes. I would be fairly confident some lads from my own club who have quit the game would still be playing now or would have had prolonged careers had they been part of a team who had competed at Division One Minor championship level.
Drumalee competed at that level for 3 years on their own in 2002, 2003 and 2004 winning a Division One Minor League once. The nucleus of them teams formed the back bone of our 2 Intermediate Championship winning teams and our Senior team at the moment.
Killeshandra, Redhills, Butlersbridge, Arva, Shercock to name a few, are clubs who IMO have benefitted greatly from having their best underage players playing Division One football. The first three have all won Junior Championships in the last 6 years and the first two are playing Division One football.

[tommysmith]

The question about amalgamations is a simple enough one. Is the GAA about getting all players from your local area involved in playing in competition at a suitable level or is it about getting "elite" teams of players to challenge for the top honours in the game.

And that my friends is the crux of the matter....

It's not a cut and dry matter in my eyes. I would be fairly confident some lads from my own club who have quit the game would still be playing now or would have had prolonged careers had they been part of a team who had competed at Division One Minor championship level.
Drumalee competed at that level for 3 years on their own in 2002, 2003 and 2004 winning a Division One Minor League once. The nucleus of them teams formed the back bone of our 2 Intermediate Championship winning teams and our Senior team at the moment.
Killeshandra, Redhills, Butlersbridge, Arva, Shercock to name a few, are clubs who IMO have benefitted greatly from having their best underage players playing Division One football. The first three have all won Junior Championships in the last 6 years and the first two are playing Division One football.

I dont agree with that if players are good enough playing divison 1 or 2 championship isnt going to make or break them.

[boojangles]

The question about amalgamations is a simple enough one. Is the GAA about getting all players from your local area involved in playing in competition at a suitable level or is it about getting "elite" teams of players to challenge for the top honours in the game.

And that my friends is the crux of the matter....

It's not a cut and dry matter in my eyes. I would be fairly confident some lads from my own club who have quit the game would still be playing now or would have had prolonged careers had they been part of a team who had competed at Division One Minor championship level.
Drumalee competed at that level for 3 years on their own in 2002, 2003 and 2004 winning a Division One Minor League once. The nucleus of them teams formed the back bone of our 2 Intermediate Championship winning teams and our Senior team at the moment.
Killeshandra, Redhills, Butlersbridge, Arva, Shercock to name a few, are clubs who IMO have benefitted greatly from having their best underage players playing Division One football. The first three have all won Junior Championships in the last 6 years and the first two are playing Division One football.

I dont agree with that if players are good enough playing divison 1 or 2 championship isnt going to make or break them.

The facts don't lie Tommy. Clubs who consistently compete at Division One underage consistently compete at Division One at Senior level. Cavan Gaels, Kingscourt, Castlerahan.
Mullahoran and Gowna have been struggling at underage for a number of years and the future doesn't look good for them.
Redhills and Killeshandra had been struggling for years until they decided to amalgamate with other clubs. Now they are both in Division One.

[tommysmith]

The question about amalgamations is a simple enough one. Is the GAA about getting all players from your local area involved in playing in competition at a suitable level or is it about getting "elite" teams of players to challenge for the top honours in the game.

And that my friends is the crux of the matter....

It's not a cut and dry matter in my eyes. I would be fairly confident some lads from my own club who have quit the game would still be playing now or would have had prolonged careers had they been part of a team who had competed at Division One Minor championship level.
Drumalee competed at that level for 3 years on their own in 2002, 2003 and 2004 winning a Division One Minor League once. The nucleus of them teams formed the back bone of our 2 Intermediate Championship winning teams and our Senior team at the moment.
Killeshandra, Redhills, Butlersbridge, Arva, Shercock to name a few, are clubs who IMO have benefitted greatly from having their best underage players playing Division One football. The first three have all won Junior Championships in the last 6 years and the first two are playing Division One football.

I dont agree with that if players are good enough playing divison 1 or 2 championship isnt going to make or break them.

The facts don't lie Tommy. Clubs who consistently compete at Division One underage consistently compete at Division One at Senior level. Cavan Gaels, Kingscourt, Castlerahan.
Mullahoran and Gowna have been struggling at underage for a number of years and the future doesn't look good for them.
Redhills and Killeshandra had been struggling for years until they decided to amalgamate with other clubs. Now they are both in Division One.

So you honestly think that a club who is playing in Divsion 1 championship has a better chance of holding onto players than one who is in division 2?