Official Cavan GAA Thread

[tommysmith]

Kingscourt won the division 1 league on their own so the main problem people seem to have is that they shouldnt have needed to join up with anyone.

[CC1]

Kingscourt won the division 1 league on their own so the main problem people seem to have is that they shouldnt have needed to join up with anyone.

So where would that leave Shercock? With no team at all? Hardly good for football in Cavan to have lads like Killian Clarke, Brian Sankey, Davy Harpur, etc. playing no football.

The amalgamation was made up before the league even started, when the teams had looked at how many eligable minors were at each club.

[boojangles]

The Minor game was poor. The Gaels never really got going. O'Raghallaigh Gaels had just a bit more strength in power in all sectors of the field. Although its ridiculous that Kingscourt and shercock joined up for the championship. Any team thats capable of winning the League should have no reason to join an amalgamation for the Championship. Wasn't surprised to hear that the Minor Board chairman is a Shercock man.     

Bitter, bitter post.

First of all, the amalgamation was decided at the very start of the year before the league even started. Shercock and Kingscourt have a history of joining up at under age level and even senior level.

Secondly, how is it ridiculous that Shercock and Kingscourt were allowed to amalgamate? Shercock struggled to field a team this year and on one occasion were forced to forfeit a game because of it. They struggled to get 15 together for other games too. What do you suggest they do for the championship? Not enter a team at all? I can't see how that would help anybody... Kingscourt had low numbers to lesser extent throughout the league, so why not?

Shercock have had to play other amalgamations over the years in Division 2 and 3 (yes an amalgamation in division THREE), such as St. Finbarrs, Cornafean/Killeshandra, all of whom have had players play senior and underage intercounty football over the years we played them (Barry Watters, Ciaran Galligan, Declan McKiernan, Mark Johnston, Cillian Reilly, Liam Duignan etc.). We had great games against them, some we came out on top and others we didn't. Killeshandra and Cornafean would have had good enough players to win those divisions by themselves, but you never had anybody moaning about their amalgamations existance. We understood that it would be tough for them to have 13 players out each time on their own.

O'Raghallaigh Gaels played St. Joseph's (amalgamation), Eire Og Celtics (amalgamation) and Cavan Gaels (a county town team that has more of a pick than Shercock and Kingscourt put together) on their way to winning the championship. So there is obviously no problems with amalgamations in Cavan, our geographical location just seems to have better players than everywhere else at the moment.

It would just be nice to see some grace in defeat from some people.

Firstly CC1 congratulations on a fine win.
I don't think anybody has a problem with Shercock amalgamating to be honest. My problem would be with Kingscourt. They won the Division 1 league on their own. Surely they should have been looking to kick on with their own players and making sure the same lads get as much football as possible.
It's becoming more and more of a divisive topic at the moment at underage in Cavan.
2 years ago I would always have been dead set against amalgamations. My own club in the last few years have struggled to maintain a panel of 18-19 at Minor level. That's the reality even for a town team these days. There is so many options for young lads these days. Soccer, Rugby, Swimming, Golf to name just a few. That's not to mention women (or men  ) and socialising.
I would always have been happy to stay on our own and make sure everybody gets football but in the last few years the same pattern is emerging. A core of about 6 or 7 footballers from each Minor team sticking at it and the rest will more than likely quit football when they head off to college, work etc. Would the club be better served amalgamating for the sake of the 7 lads who will stick at it for U-21/ Senior level or to go it alone to give the other 10 lads one more final year at football.
I'm now of the opinion that if we don't start to amalgamate with a local club we will be left behind. Most clubs nowadays are considering it and are reaping the rewards for it. Shercock winning 2 Division 1 Minor Championships in the last 3 years being a prime example.
Peter Quinn has suggested the idea of a Super Minor championship and he could be right.
As I have said before amalgamations can only be good for football in the county in the long term but the only way they will ever be sustainable is if clubs are used to playing and training together from a young age eg. St Joes, Redbridge etc.

[tommysmith]

Kingscourt won the division 1 league on their own so the main problem people seem to have is that they shouldnt have needed to join up with anyone.

So where would that leave Shercock? With no team at all? Hardly good for football in Cavan to have lads like Killian Clarke, Brian Sankey, Davy Harpur, etc. playing no football.

The amalgamation was made up before the league even started, when the teams had looked at how many eligable minors were at each club.

I was talking about Kingscourt but anyways,

How did Baileboro do in the minor championship? What divison were they in?

[CC1]

The Minor game was poor. The Gaels never really got going. O'Raghallaigh Gaels had just a bit more strength in power in all sectors of the field. Although its ridiculous that Kingscourt and shercock joined up for the championship. Any team thats capable of winning the League should have no reason to join an amalgamation for the Championship. Wasn't surprised to hear that the Minor Board chairman is a Shercock man.     

Bitter, bitter post.

First of all, the amalgamation was decided at the very start of the year before the league even started. Shercock and Kingscourt have a history of joining up at under age level and even senior level.

Secondly, how is it ridiculous that Shercock and Kingscourt were allowed to amalgamate? Shercock struggled to field a team this year and on one occasion were forced to forfeit a game because of it. They struggled to get 15 together for other games too. What do you suggest they do for the championship? Not enter a team at all? I can't see how that would help anybody... Kingscourt had low numbers to lesser extent throughout the league, so why not?

Shercock have had to play other amalgamations over the years in Division 2 and 3 (yes an amalgamation in division THREE), such as St. Finbarrs, Cornafean/Killeshandra, all of whom have had players play senior and underage intercounty football over the years we played them (Barry Watters, Ciaran Galligan, Declan McKiernan, Mark Johnston, Cillian Reilly, Liam Duignan etc.). We had great games against them, some we came out on top and others we didn't. Killeshandra and Cornafean would have had good enough players to win those divisions by themselves, but you never had anybody moaning about their amalgamations existance. We understood that it would be tough for them to have 13 players out each time on their own.

O'Raghallaigh Gaels played St. Joseph's (amalgamation), Eire Og Celtics (amalgamation) and Cavan Gaels (a county town team that has more of a pick than Shercock and Kingscourt put together) on their way to winning the championship. So there is obviously no problems with amalgamations in Cavan, our geographical location just seems to have better players than everywhere else at the moment.

It would just be nice to see some grace in defeat from some people.

Firstly CC1 congratulations on a fine win.
I don't think anybody has a problem with Shercock amalgamating to be honest. My problem would be with Kingscourt. They won the Division 1 league on their own. Surely they should have been looking to kick on with their own players and making sure the same lads get as much football as possible.
It's becoming more and more of a divisive topic at the moment at underage in Cavan.
2 years ago I would always have been dead set against amalgamations. My own club in the last few years have struggled to maintain a panel of 18-19 at Minor level. That's the reality even for a town team these days. There is so many options for young lads these days. Soccer, Rugby, Swimming, Golf to name just a few. That's not to mention women (or men  ) and socialising.
I would always have been happy to stay on our own and make sure everybody gets football but in the last few years the same pattern is emerging. A core of about 6 or 7 footballers from each Minor team sticking at it and the rest will more than likely quit football when they head off to college, work etc. Would the club be better served amalgamating for the sake of the 7 lads who will stick at it for U-21/ Senior level or to go it alone to give the other 10 lads one more final year at football.
I'm now of the opinion that if we don't start to amalgamate with a local club we will be left behind. Most clubs nowadays are considering it and are reaping the rewards for it. Shercock winning 2 Division 1 Minor Championships in the last 3 years being a prime example.
Peter Quinn has suggested the idea of a Super Minor championship and he could be right.
As I have said before amalgamations can only be good for football in the county in the long term but the only way they will ever be sustainable is if clubs are used to playing and training together from a young age eg. St Joes, Redbridge etc.

Thanks booj, success doesn't come around these parts all that often so we will enjoy it while we can!

I can understand everybodies feelings on Kingscourt, but everybody must know at this stage that the amalgamation for the championship was made up long before Kingscourt won their league title. At that stage neither Shercock nor Kingscourt knew how things would pan out for either club on the pitch, all they knew was that the numbers were quite low and that any injuries or suspensions would mean they would have to conceed games. Fortunately for Kingscourt they were ok during their league campaign injury and suspension wise.

Obviously both clubs, Kingscourt and Shercock would have loved to go into the Championship alone but it was not an option given the fact that both had very low numbers. Shercock had 6 or 7 Division 1 standard players and would have a strong team by themselves both this year and in 09 with Killann Gaels if they had enough players to make up a squad, but didn't. That is what made the both amalgamations so strong.

[put-it-up-again]

I coached the Bailieborough minors a few times before the Championship.  We had 17 players togged out for the championship and I can count on one hand the amount of times we had more than 10 at training. Lost the first game in Division One to Ballyhaise. We badly needed to amalgamate to be competitive. 

Asked a few officials why we weren't amalgamated with Shercock, like we have for the last five years I think, and I never got a straight answer. I can only imagine how petty the row was.

I played Minor football for four years with the club and each year we were with Shercock. I never won a thing or got near a final. You can't start complaining about amalgamations just because they are starting to win something. Nobody has a problem with all the other amalgations that lost and Cavan Gaels domination of this grade is not good for the county.

The only thing that would annoy me is that I was told for one of the earlier championship games Shercock/Kingscourt had a panel of 32. To me that is wrong. There is `17 lads sitting on the bench getting no football. Is that good for trying to keep lads at footballl with everything else going on? They should have at least entered a team into the bottom Division and played in that to give a few lads a game. I know it means on average that each club only has 16 players and I dont blame for amalgamating but something needs to be done to cater those other lads.

I'd love to see a 7's competition ran for the minor grade. Get every team down to Breffni for a day. Use the three pitches and let the Division One teams enter two teams. Just let everyone play football and let them have the craic. Do a few different prizes and let the day be more fun based than about winning. The championship is over now and the reality is some lads will never kick a ball again. Would love someone to pull it together when the championship ends.

The facilities are there to do it. Would love to see it happen

[tommysmith]

So do Shercock join with Kingcourt or Bailieborough depending on which has best chance of winning?

I am just curious and dont really care its just intersting how clubs are swapping and changing who they are joining with.

[Dougal]

So do Shercock join with Kingcourt or Bailieborough depending on which has best chance of winning?

I am just curious and dont really care its just intersting how clubs are swapping and changing who they are joining with.

the thing im curious about is why if two teams are going to struggle to put out a team unless they amalgamate.why do they struggle for the 7 games then join up for what might possibly be 1 game.surely if you know at the start of the year your going to struggle you should join for the whole season.ive always thought amalgamations were the way to go,but i think it needs to be done for the whole season.

[CC1]

So do Shercock join with Kingcourt or Bailieborough depending on which has best chance of winning?

I am just curious and dont really care its just intersting how clubs are swapping and changing who they are joining with.

Well for the last number of years Shercock have joined with Bailieborough because they are in the same parish as us. Not sure why it has changed this year, might have been a disagreement somewhere between the two but that is just a guess.

It has nothing to do with whoever has the best chance of winning. It is whoever is interested in joining up with us and forming a team in Division 1. We had on average 8-9 players playing in each game so its not like we have one or two lads hanging onto the others coat tails and getting "easy" medals. It was very much a team effort.

[tommysmith]

So do Shercock join with Kingcourt or Bailieborough depending on which has best chance of winning?

I am just curious and dont really care its just intersting how clubs are swapping and changing who they are joining with.

the thing im curious about is why if two teams are going to struggle to put out a team unless they amalgamate.why do they struggle for the 7 games then join up for what might possibly be 1 game.surely if you know at the start of the year your going to struggle you should join for the whole season.ive always thought amalgamations were the way to go,but i think it needs to be done for the whole season.

That is what should happen tbf.

[Ollie]

The Minor game was poor. The Gaels never really got going. O'Raghallaigh Gaels had just a bit more strength in power in all sectors of the field. Although its ridiculous that Kingscourt and shercock joined up for the championship. Any team thats capable of winning the League should have no reason to join an amalgamation for the Championship. Wasn't surprised to hear that the Minor Board chairman is a Shercock man.     

Bitter, bitter post.

First of all, the amalgamation was decided at the very start of the year before the league even started. Shercock and Kingscourt have a history of joining up at under age level and even senior level.

Secondly, how is it ridiculous that Shercock and Kingscourt were allowed to amalgamate? Shercock struggled to field a team this year and on one occasion were forced to forfeit a game because of it. They struggled to get 15 together for other games too. What do you suggest they do for the championship? Not enter a team at all? I can't see how that would help anybody... Kingscourt had low numbers to lesser extent throughout the league, so why not?

Shercock have had to play other amalgamations over the years in Division 2 and 3 (yes an amalgamation in division THREE), such as St. Finbarrs, Cornafean/Killeshandra, all of whom have had players play senior and underage intercounty football over the years we played them (Barry Watters, Ciaran Galligan, Declan McKiernan, Mark Johnston, Cillian Reilly, Liam Duignan etc.). We had great games against them, some we came out on top and others we didn't. Killeshandra and Cornafean would have had good enough players to win those divisions by themselves, but you never had anybody moaning about their amalgamations existance. We understood that it would be tough for them to have 13 players out each time on their own.

O'Raghallaigh Gaels played St. Joseph's (amalgamation), Eire Og Celtics (amalgamation) and Cavan Gaels (a county town team that has more of a pick than Shercock and Kingscourt put together) on their way to winning the championship. So there is obviously no problems with amalgamations in Cavan, our geographical location just seems to have better players than everywhere else at the moment.

It would just be nice to see some grace in defeat from some people.

Sorry but your argument doesn't add up. If this amalgamation was agreed upon at the start of the year then how come O'Raghallaigh Gaels didn't compete in the League? And after winning the League why did Kingscourt go ahead with the amalgamation? granted they they had a small panel but if it was sufficient to get through the League then it should have been more than capable of withstanding the championship. Would it have not been more appropriate for Shercock to join up with another smaller club in that area such as Bailieborough, Knockbride or Drumgoon or did they all manage to cope fine in their Minor grade? I get the impression that the Minor Board felt this amalgamation with be the strongest combination in what is a weak minor championship and so they went ahead with it.
That being said congrats to Kingscourt on winning the League and O'Raghallaigh Gaels on winning the championship. I think Dillon, Faulkner, Sankey and Clarke have the ability to become top class footballers. And I'm not one bit bitter. I'm proud of the Gaels lads. It's a testament to both them and the club that it took the makings of two good clubs to beat them.

[CC1]

Sorry but your argument doesn't add up. If this amalgamation was agreed upon at the start of the year then how come O'Raghallaigh Gaels didn't compete in the League? And after winning the League why did Kingscourt go ahead with the amalgamation? granted they they had a small panel but if it was sufficient to get through the League then it should have been more than capable of withstanding the championship. Would it have not been more appropriate for Shercock to join up with another smaller club in that area such as Bailieborough, Knockbride or Drumgoon or did they all manage to cope fine in their Minor grade? I get the impression that the Minor Board felt this amalgamation with be the strongest combination in what is a weak minor championship and so they went ahead with it.
That being said congrats to Kingscourt on winning the League and O'Raghallaigh Gaels on winning the championship. I think Dillon, Faulkner, Sankey and Clarke have the ability to become top class footballers. And I'm not one bit bitter. I'm proud of the Gaels lads. It's a testament to both them and the club that it took the makings of two good clubs to beat them.

You ARE bitter. If you want proof, just read your first post again.

Why did Drumgoon and Cootehill compete in the league as Eire Og Celtics? Why didn't Ramor and Killinkere amalgamate for the league? I believe it is to have the top players playing in the top division in order to provide a higher standard of football at minor championship level. That is my take on it anyway. In the league I'm sure both clubs wanted to take a stab at it alone. In hindsight though they should have played as O'Raghallaigh Gaels in the league. Maybe that would have avoided Shercock having to concede a game for not having enough fit players.

Would it have been appropriate for Shercock to join with Bailieborough, Knockbride or Drumgoon? Well Bailieborough would have been a more traditional one, something seems to have happened that made it unworkable for this year anyway. Drumgoon or Knockbride are complete no, no's given our rivalries and no historical or parishonal connection.

Yes it took the makings of two good clubs to beat Cavan Gaels, but fact is that Cavan Gaels have a huge pick compared to any team in the county, and what the county board should be doing is finding a balance so that all clubs can compete. So count yourselves very lucky that at senior level, you do have the advantage of population on your side.

You should be proud of your players surely, but you should also keep the bitterness out of it.

[RacingPost09]

I was told the reason Shercock did not amalgamate with Bailieboro at minor level was because Shercock wanted to amalgamate at both the minor and U16 grade but Bailieboro didn't want this however Kingscourt were willing to. I hear nobody giving out about the O'Raghallaigh Gaels amalgamation at U16 level, is this because they didn't win? Would it have been a different story if they did win?

O'Raghallaigh Gaels have been training together since before a ball had been kicked in the league, as well as training with their respective clubs and have put a lot of effort into winning this minor championship. Yes Kingscourt did win the league, but this amalgamation had been decided on a long time before this and although clubs did put in complaints there was no rule stating that because a club won the league then their amalgamation had to be scraped. If the county board was to scrap this amalgamation they all would have to be scraped. Would this have achieved anything? That would have meant that  many of the smaller clubs would not be able to field a team at all.

[tommysmith]

I was told the reason Shercock did not amalgamate with Bailieboro at minor level was because Shercock wanted to amalgamate at both the minor and U16 grade but Bailieboro didn't want this however Kingscourt were willing to. I hear nobody giving out about the O'Raghallaigh Gaels amalgamation at U16 level, is this because they didn't win? Would it have been a different story if they did win?

O'Raghallaigh Gaels have been training together since before a ball had been kicked in the league, as well as training with their respective clubs and have put a lot of effort into winning this minor championship. Yes Kingscourt did win the league, but this amalgamation had been decided on a long time before this and although clubs did put in complaints there was no rule stating that because a club won the league then their amalgamation had to be scraped. If the county board was to scrap this amalgamation they all would have to be scraped. Would this have achieved anything? That would have meant that  many of the smaller clubs would not be able to field a team at all.

Do you know why they didnt join up for the league?

[Ollie]

Sorry but your argument doesn't add up. If this amalgamation was agreed upon at the start of the year then how come O'Raghallaigh Gaels didn't compete in the League? And after winning the League why did Kingscourt go ahead with the amalgamation? granted they they had a small panel but if it was sufficient to get through the League then it should have been more than capable of withstanding the championship. Would it have not been more appropriate for Shercock to join up with another smaller club in that area such as Bailieborough, Knockbride or Drumgoon or did they all manage to cope fine in their Minor grade? I get the impression that the Minor Board felt this amalgamation with be the strongest combination in what is a weak minor championship and so they went ahead with it.
That being said congrats to Kingscourt on winning the League and O'Raghallaigh Gaels on winning the championship. I think Dillon, Faulkner, Sankey and Clarke have the ability to become top class footballers. And I'm not one bit bitter. I'm proud of the Gaels lads. It's a testament to both them and the club that it took the makings of two good clubs to beat them.

You ARE bitter. If you want proof, just read your first post again.

Why did Drumgoon and Cootehill compete in the league as Eire Og Celtics? Why didn't Ramor and Killinkere amalgamate for the league? I believe it is to have the top players playing in the top division in order to provide a higher standard of football at minor championship level. That is my take on it anyway. In the league I'm sure both clubs wanted to take a stab at it alone. In hindsight though they should have played as O'Raghallaigh Gaels in the league. Maybe that would have avoided Shercock having to concede a game for not having enough fit players.

Would it have been appropriate for Shercock to join with Bailieborough, Knockbride or Drumgoon? Well Bailieborough would have been a more traditional one, something seems to have happened that made it unworkable for this year anyway. Drumgoon or Knockbride are complete no, no's given our rivalries and no historical or parishonal connection.

Yes it took the makings of two good clubs to beat Cavan Gaels, but fact is that Cavan Gaels have a huge pick compared to any team in the county, and what the county board should be doing is finding a balance so that all clubs can compete. So count yourselves very lucky that at senior level, you do have the advantage of population on your side.

You should be proud of your players surely, but you should also keep the bitterness out of it.

I think you can rule out the accusation of bitterness seeing as some of the neutral contributors on this forum in last 24 hours are against this amalgamation. I just don't think that there's any justifiable reason why the Kingscourt team which comprehensively beat us in the League would need an amalgamation to get through the championship. Regardless of what arrangement was put in place at the start of the year I feel it was wrong for the amalgamation to go ahead. O'Raghallaigh Gaels didnt even have enough jersey for the entire squad during the semi-final because of the amount of subs they had. The majority of those lads saw no championship football. So how is that good for either club when a sizeable majority of their players aren't even playing!