Brexit.

[screenexile]

I'm just thinking out loud here but is there not a case for the North to stay in the EEA and CU and still have no border with the South?

I know the DUP are posturing about "we are leaving like the rest of the UK" but surely this would be the ideal outcome for the North?!

[armaghniac]

I'm just thinking out loud here but is there not a case for the North to stay in the EEA and CU and still have no border with the South?

I know the DUP are posturing about "we are leaving like the rest of the UK" but surely this would be the ideal outcome for the North?!

That's exactly the plan, but the problem is that if the Brits do their own thing then there is paperwork required (or even tariffs) to ship stuff to England. However, according to SluggeroToole there was a poll (taken before the recent stuff) which shows 64% agreed and 25% disagreed (with 11% undecided) with the idea of an open border and some controls on the Irish sea.

[haranguerer]

Genuinely curious as to what do you think the whole debate has been about lately screen

[screenexile]

Genuinely curious as to what do you think the whole debate has been about lately screen

I haven't seen anyone suggest this. . . it all seems to be one extreme or the other either there's a border between the North and South or a border between the island of Ireland and the UK. Maybe there has been talk of it but I haven't seen anyone of authority approach it as having no border between the North and South and a soft border between NI and the rest of the UK.

[haranguerer]

Ah - your post reads no border with the south, when I think you meant no border with Britain? (as wouldn't need a border with the south if still in EEA and CU).

I think the answer is that the brits know it isn't possible to have the frictionless border they promise for Ireland. So whereever there is a border, there will have to be controls. Its still easier for all concerned if it is the Irish sea, but DUP obv not happy with that and are in a decent position to have influence

[armaghniac]

Genuinely curious as to what do you think the whole debate has been about lately screen

I haven't seen anyone suggest this. . . it all seems to be one extreme or the other either there's a border between the North and South or a border between the island of Ireland and the UK. Maybe there has been talk of it but I haven't seen anyone of authority approach it as having no border between the North and South and a soft border between NI and the rest of the UK.

No border between the North and South and a soft border between all of Ireland and the rest of the UK is exactly the objective. GB remaining entirely in the single market is unlikely, things like agriculture will possibly be different at the end of the day. A hard border in the Irish sea would result from GB pursing the wilder fantasies of the Brexiteers, but there has to be some doubt about their ability to achieve this at this stage.

[weareros]

Once again,Nationalist Ireland by willingly conceding the North to the UK in 1998 is primarily to blame for this fiasco.Did they think Blair would be PM forever? Eurosceptism is not an overnight phenomenon in Britain,it has been gaining momentum for at least three decades.

Not that long ago since Sinn Fein which represents the majority of nationalists in the six counties were Eurosceptics too. I suspect they still are at heart. The GF still recognises that everyone on island are Irish citizens. Even some Unionists are now appreciating that post Brexit. Unity only possible if a certain segment of Unionist vote with majority of nationalists. I think it's clear from a recent poll that a hard Brexit could make this possible even if the Unionist newspapers failed to report that aspect of the poll.

[armaghniac]

Once again,Nationalist Ireland by willingly conceding the North to the UK in 1998 is primarily to blame for this fiasco.Did they think Blair would be PM forever? Eurosceptism is not an overnight phenomenon in Britain,it has been gaining momentum for at least three decades.

Not that long ago since Sinn Fein which represents the majority of nationalists in the six counties were Eurosceptics too. I suspect they still are at heart. The GF still recognises that everyone on island are Irish citizens. Even some Unionists are now appreciating that post Brexit. Unity only possible if a certain segment of Unionist vote with majority of nationalists. I think it's clear from a recent poll that a hard Brexit could make this possible even if the Unionist newspapers failed to report that aspect of the poll.

It is notable that SF have played no part in the present debate, have put forward no ideas of any consequence. Their sheer immaturity makes them useless  in the present situation. The only saving grace is that they managed to oppose Brexit unlike the loonies in the People Against People.

[tiempo]

Once again,Nationalist Ireland by willingly conceding the North to the UK in 1998 is primarily to blame for this fiasco.Did they think Blair would be PM forever? Eurosceptism is not an overnight phenomenon in Britain,it has been gaining momentum for at least three decades.

Not that long ago since Sinn Fein which represents the majority of nationalists in the six counties were Eurosceptics too. I suspect they still are at heart. The GF still recognises that everyone on island are Irish citizens. Even some Unionists are now appreciating that post Brexit. Unity only possible if a certain segment of Unionist vote with majority of nationalists. I think it's clear from a recent poll that a hard Brexit could make this possible even if the Unionist newspapers failed to report that aspect of the poll.

It is notable that SF have played no part in the present debate, have put forward no ideas of any consequence. Their sheer immaturity makes them useless  in the present situation. The only saving grace is that they managed to oppose Brexit unlike the loonies in the People Against People.

SF are the bogeyman party for every other party in the north and south, and plenty across the water too. Why? Because they continue to challenge the process - a process that delivered a sectarian statelet and oversaw a pogrom against Catholics within that statelet, and continues to divide the people of an island, the vast majority who could live and prosper in a tolerable way alongside each other regardless of ideology.

SF's number one goal at this present moment in time is Irish reunification, after that they would aim to govern in that "new" Ireland. Brexit is feeding the reunification project, sometimes it is best to speak up sometimes it is best to stand back. For SF to speak out now would hand a straightforward opportunity to all Brexiteers to deflect their shortcomings on to SF and create additional spin and propaganda. In fact SF have done the exact opposite - Gerry retired! Bogeyman exits stage left.

Brexit is yet more rope the Unionists have from which to hang themselves. In time honored fashion the Brits may string them up before then anyway, cut them loose and end the frankenstein statelet. The Brits brought this situation on themselves, what exactly do you want SF to do or say? They are an anti-Brexit abstentionist party, Brexit works for reunification, Brexit works for SF. One mans immature stance is another mans ambivalence, and they have every right to be ambivalent.

[seafoid]

The DUP.want a wee border but NI is too poor and economically weak to afford one.
I think the slua sí ultach are finally beating the colonists.

[seafoid]

Brexit is chaos

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/nov/28/priti-patel-condemns-mays-brexit-strategy-and-says-eu-should-be-told-to-sod-off-over-money-politics-live

The Lib Dem MP Tom Brake asks why the government has edited its report, when the Bank of England has published "chilling" information about what might happen after Brexit. Is it true the bulk of the information was not given to the committee?

Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, says the government does not understand the word transparency and accountability.

He says the Commons motion was clear; it said the information should be handed over to the select committee.

He says the government could have tried to amend the Commons motion that was passed, but did not.

He says Walker must explain what assurances the government asked for from the select committee that were not given.

The Commons will have a chance to debate at another time whether there has been a contempt of parliament.

He says in his experience scrutiny is essential for good decision making.

He says he is worried to hear that the information fills just two lever arch files. He says that, in his old job as DPP, that is the amount of paperwork you would expect for a standard crown court case.

Brexit requires much more analysis, he says.

[Milltown Row2]

What trade (% wise) do the north and south do? Are there no electronic ways of doing customs? why would they not just do the random checks on goods transport and let the rest drive on through? Would no trade in the South hamper their overall econmony?

Louth minister was on the other day and all he had to offer was the peace process and how it would go back to the troubles..

[ashman]

Once again,Nationalist Ireland by willingly conceding the North to the UK in 1998 is primarily to blame for this fiasco.Did they think Blair would be PM forever? Eurosceptism is not an overnight phenomenon in Britain,it has been gaining momentum for at least three decades.

Not that long ago since Sinn Fein which represents the majority of nationalists in the six counties were Eurosceptics too. I suspect they still are at heart. The GF still recognises that everyone on island are Irish citizens. Even some Unionists are now appreciating that post Brexit. Unity only possible if a certain segment of Unionist vote with majority of nationalists. I think it's clear from a recent poll that a hard Brexit could make this possible even if the Unionist newspapers failed to report that aspect of the poll.

It is notable that SF have played no part in the present debate, have put forward no ideas of any consequence. Their sheer immaturity makes them useless  in the present situation. The only saving grace is that they managed to oppose Brexit unlike the loonies in the People Against People.

SF are the bogeyman party for every other party in the north and south, and plenty across the water too. Why? Because they continue to challenge the process - a process that delivered a sectarian statelet and oversaw a pogrom against Catholics within that statelet, and continues to divide the people of an island, the vast majority who could live and prosper in a tolerable way alongside each other regardless of ideology.

SF's number one goal at this present moment in time is Irish reunification, after that they would aim to govern in that "new" Ireland. Brexit is feeding the reunification project, sometimes it is best to speak up sometimes it is best to stand back. For SF to speak out now would hand a straightforward opportunity to all Brexiteers to deflect their shortcomings on to SF and create additional spin and propaganda. In fact SF have done the exact opposite - Gerry retired! Bogeyman exits stage left.

Brexit is yet more rope the Unionists have from which to hang themselves. In time honored fashion the Brits may string them up before then anyway, cut them loose and end the frankenstein statelet. The Brits brought this situation on themselves, what exactly do you want SF to do or say? They are an anti-Brexit abstentionist party, Brexit works for reunification, Brexit works for SF. One mans immature stance is another mans ambivalence, and they have every right to be ambivalent.

SF opposed the Common Market when Uk and ROI joined .  They opposed every treaty since .

When did they accept the EU ?? Was it when they became part of the political parasite apparatus in Strasboug ?

Can you shed light .

[Rossfan]

Probably when they saw the shower of fkd up arseholes that were also against the EU.

[ashman]

Probably when they saw the shower of fkd up arseholes that were also against the EU.

There was an old joke that an Phoblacht and the Daily Telegraph's editorials on the EU were more or less the same .