Brexit.

[Minder]

East Belfast is probably the most oppressed place in NI coutesy of... the DUP. yet every election time who gets voted in .... the DUP.

You couldn't make it up. There will hopefully come a time when people vote properly but unfortunately doesn't appear to be any time soon.

Ditto W Belfast & SF

[armaghniac]

You couldn't make it up. There will hopefully come a time when people vote properly but unfortunately doesn't appear to be any time soon.

Has there been much progress in the last 20 years on this matter? If anything 20 years ago there was some hope of the likes of the PUP having a different style.

I think the Brexit vote is a good example of the hopelessness of the place, as people voted for it in the full knowledge that NI would suffer economically from it, that it would advance Scottish nationalism and that people in border areas of NI would be seriously pissed off. FFS, even if you were in the DUP, the Orange Order and the NI supporters club would you not leave well enough alone when you were ahead?

[NAG1]

You couldn't make it up. There will hopefully come a time when people vote properly but unfortunately doesn't appear to be any time soon.

Has there been much progress in the last 20 years on this matter? If anything 20 years ago there was some hope of the likes of the PUP having a different style.

I think the Brexit vote is a good example of the hopelessness of the place, as people voted for it in the full knowledge that NI would suffer economically from it, that it would advance Scottish nationalism and that people in border areas of NI would be seriously pissed off. FFS, even if you were in the DUP, the Orange Order and the NI supporters club would you not leave well enough alone when you were ahead?

I would wager that 99% of those voting for a Leave result had no idea that any of the above was even on the agenda.

All they thought about was all these immigrants stealing their benefits and clogging up the hospitals etc. They followed the lies by Boris and Farage and repeated by the DUP.

Osborne has already shafted the DUP position with the Corp Tax.

[No wides]

You couldn't make it up. There will hopefully come a time when people vote properly but unfortunately doesn't appear to be any time soon.

Has there been much progress in the last 20 years on this matter? If anything 20 years ago there was some hope of the likes of the PUP having a different style.

I think the Brexit vote is a good example of the hopelessness of the place, as people voted for it in the full knowledge that NI would suffer economically from it, that it would advance Scottish nationalism and that people in border areas of NI would be seriously pissed off. FFS, even if you were in the DUP, the Orange Order and the NI supporters club would you not leave well enough alone when you were ahead?

I would wager that 99% of those voting for a Leave result had no idea that any of the above was even on the agenda.

All they thought about was all these immigrants stealing their benefits and clogging up the hospitals etc. They followed the lies by Boris and Farage and repeated by the DUP.

Osborne has already shafted the DUP position with the Corp Tax.

Irish government might worry too if UK gets the trade deals correct.

[imtommygunn]

You couldn't make it up. There will hopefully come a time when people vote properly but unfortunately doesn't appear to be any time soon.

Has there been much progress in the last 20 years on this matter? If anything 20 years ago there was some hope of the likes of the PUP having a different style.

I think the Brexit vote is a good example of the hopelessness of the place, as people voted for it in the full knowledge that NI would suffer economically from it, that it would advance Scottish nationalism and that people in border areas of NI would be seriously pissed off. FFS, even if you were in the DUP, the Orange Order and the NI supporters club would you not leave well enough alone when you were ahead?

At least there was a majority but to be honest it was nowhere near where it should be.

The PUP were ok with David Ervine but Hutchinson is not a good man and with him involved an some of the people standing for PUP they appear to have nothing bar bitterness.

Really the DUP have got nothing to offer in the whole thing. I am hoping the fact that they have probably weakened the union comes back to haunt them and they get ousted.Not that a UI is anything which would happen an time soon or anything but the economic stability the UK offered a week or two ago isn't there and would sway people if push came to shove. If the DUP got ousted from power in stormont that would be a very good and progressive day for NI.

[Walter Cronc]

You couldn't make it up. There will hopefully come a time when people vote properly but unfortunately doesn't appear to be any time soon.

Has there been much progress in the last 20 years on this matter? If anything 20 years ago there was some hope of the likes of the PUP having a different style.

I think the Brexit vote is a good example of the hopelessness of the place, as people voted for it in the full knowledge that NI would suffer economically from it, that it would advance Scottish nationalism and that people in border areas of NI would be seriously pissed off. FFS, even if you were in the DUP, the Orange Order and the NI supporters club would you not leave well enough alone when you were ahead?

At least there was a majority but to be honest it was nowhere near where it should be.

The PUP were ok with David Ervine but Hutchinson is not a good man and with him involved an some of the people standing for PUP they appear to have nothing bar bitterness.

Really the DUP have got nothing to offer in the whole thing. I am hoping the fact that they have probably weakened the union comes back to haunt them and they get ousted.Not that a UI is anything which would happen an time soon or anything but the economic stability the UK offered a week or two ago isn't there and would sway people if push came to shove. If the DUP got ousted from power in stormont that would be a very good and progressive day for NI.

Replaced by the UUP?

[imtommygunn]

Still better...

[armaghniac]

You couldn't make it up. There will hopefully come a time when people vote properly but unfortunately doesn't appear to be any time soon.

Has there been much progress in the last 20 years on this matter? If anything 20 years ago there was some hope of the likes of the PUP having a different style.

I think the Brexit vote is a good example of the hopelessness of the place, as people voted for it in the full knowledge that NI would suffer economically from it, that it would advance Scottish nationalism and that people in border areas of NI would be seriously pissed off. FFS, even if you were in the DUP, the Orange Order and the NI supporters club would you not leave well enough alone when you were ahead?

I would wager that 99% of those voting for a Leave result had no idea that any of the above was even on the agenda.

All they thought about was all these immigrants stealing their benefits and clogging up the hospitals etc. They followed the lies by Boris and Farage and repeated by the DUP.

This might have been true in England, but nobody in NI could have failed to notice that it is shares an island with another jurisdiction, that's what politics largely revolves around. They voted, 18 years after the GFA when nationalists have been working the thing fair and square and we've had peace, to close the border to piss off the taigs. 

[general_lee]

The DUP really come across as the most inept shower of flag waving gobshites who's only priority is reaffirming their Britishness and cementing their supremacy over Nationalists. They're more concerned with pleasing their English overlords than they are representing the interests of people in NI. I've said it before but it is depressing that so many morons vote for them

Do the morons even have an alternative to vote for though?? How the working class loyalist community in Belfast and other towns vote for the DUP is beyond me. They've done nothing to improve the loyalist ghettos. Schools and housing is shameful compared to other areas. Arlene is pathetic, jesus Peter Robinson wasnt half as bad!

They are littered with loyalist parasites like Gregory Campbell and Nelson McCausland - so they don't need an alternative with the likes of these boys standing.

[Walter Cronc]

The DUP really come across as the most inept shower of flag waving gobshites who's only priority is reaffirming their Britishness and cementing their supremacy over Nationalists. They're more concerned with pleasing their English overlords than they are representing the interests of people in NI. I've said it before but it is depressing that so many morons vote for them

Do the morons even have an alternative to vote for though?? How the working class loyalist community in Belfast and other towns vote for the DUP is beyond me. They've done nothing to improve the loyalist ghettos. Schools and housing is shameful compared to other areas. Arlene is pathetic, jesus Peter Robinson wasnt half as bad!

They are littered with loyalist parasites like Gregory Campbell and Nelson McCausland - so they don't need an alternative with the likes of these boys standing.

Loyalists in suits!

[imtommygunn]

You couldn't make it up. There will hopefully come a time when people vote properly but unfortunately doesn't appear to be any time soon.

Has there been much progress in the last 20 years on this matter? If anything 20 years ago there was some hope of the likes of the PUP having a different style.

I think the Brexit vote is a good example of the hopelessness of the place, as people voted for it in the full knowledge that NI would suffer economically from it, that it would advance Scottish nationalism and that people in border areas of NI would be seriously pissed off. FFS, even if you were in the DUP, the Orange Order and the NI supporters club would you not leave well enough alone when you were ahead?

I would wager that 99% of those voting for a Leave result had no idea that any of the above was even on the agenda.

All they thought about was all these immigrants stealing their benefits and clogging up the hospitals etc. They followed the lies by Boris and Farage and repeated by the DUP.

This might have been true in England, but nobody in NI could have failed to notice that it is shares an island with another jurisdiction, that's what politics largely revolves around. They voted, 18 years after the GFA when nationalists have been working the thing fair and square and we've had peace, to close the border to piss off the taigs.

I wouldn't be as optimistic as you about that. 44% voted to leave.

[armaghniac]

This might have been true in England, but nobody in NI could have failed to notice that it is shares an island with another jurisdiction, that's what politics largely revolves around. They voted, 18 years after the GFA when nationalists have been working the thing fair and square and we've had peace, to close the border to piss off the taigs.

I wouldn't be as optimistic as you about that. 44% voted to leave.

I'm not optimistic, how could anyone be optimistic?  44% (i.e. the overwhelming majority of big U unionists) were happy to see the whole GFA in the bin and whatever about the EU the GFA has largely worked as advertised. Now if the "process" somehow managed to mitigate the damage then it might not be so bad, but Foster and Lord Haw-haw Donaldson are going around vetoing talks on the issue.

[imtommygunn]

I almost think the gfa has worked despite the dup and not because of them. I don't think they have anything constructive to offer at all. Putting the economy in their hands is a frightening prospect.

[seafoid]

http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2016/07/04/the-three-steps-that-mean-brexit-may-never-happen/

The three steps that mean Brexit may never happen

David Allen Green   

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  |  Jul 04 13:57  |  105 comments  |  Share       

The established order in any society can sometimes be wrong-footed, but they are usually not wrong-footed for long. Genuine revolutionaries know this, and they act quickly to take full advantage of any temporary advantage. Soon, however, the established order will regroup and refocus, with renewed determination.

The generally pro-EU political class in the United Kingdom has certainly had a fright. They were not expecting to lose the EU referendum. British political leaders were so confident of victory they even casually said that the people's decision would be implemented "straight away". And now there is a crisis, but only for a while.

Already the un-codified (and some would say "unwritten") constitution may be saving the pro-EU political class from their own folly and complacency. The referendum was never binding in law (as this law and policy blog pointed out nine days before the vote). Indeed, the referendum had little legal – as opposed to political – significance. It was a glorified consultation exercise. The real decision has to be made afterwards, as a distinct legal act. This is the decision envisaged by the now-famous "Article 50″ – the EU treaty provision which deals with member states wanting to leave the EU.

The prime minister David Cameron was expected to make that decision immediately, on the day of the result. But he did not. He has left it to his successor to make. This deft uncoupling of the referendum result from the formal decision to quit the EU was significant. In my view, it will become the first of three steps the still pro-EU UK government will take to delay Brexit – and perhaps will delay it so long that it never happens.

The reason the government may get away with this manoeuvre is because the leaders of the Leave campaign either did not expect to win or naively thought winning a referendum would be enough. In either case there was no plan: no notion of any follow-through. And so when the government became wrong-footed nothing was done. They had won the Referendum Battle, but they did not act swiftly to also win the Brexit War.

Unless a sincere Brexit campaigner wins the Conservative leadership election and becomes the next prime minister, the UK government can be expected to now take three steps to slow down the Brexit process in the hope (and perhaps expectation) that it does not happen.

The first step has already happened: Mr Cameron snapped the tie between the referendum result and the Article 50 notification.

The second step will be when the government says that the form of the decision will require some form of parliamentary vote: either a resolution or a motion, or even a fresh statute. Views vary among legal pundits on whether this is strictly necessary — my view is that it is not, and if the prime minister and cabinet had decided on referendum day to make an immediate notification, no court would have quashed the decision or injuncted him from making the notification. But it is a convenient view for a procrastinating government to adopt, and the result of any parliamentary vote cannot be taken for granted by leave supporters. Few members of parliament or peers support Brexit.

The third step will be the proposal of preconditions before further action. Many will remember Gordon Brown's "five tests" for UK to join the euro (which were never tests in any real sense, but that detail was not important). Already contenders for the Tory leadership, such as Theresa May, the home secretary, are talking of situations being right and that things will be done when they are good and ready. This vagueness will no doubt shortly convert into more formal terms. After all, this would only be what any responsible government would do before taking ever such an important action.

None of this is to say Brexit is impossible – any pundit who claims an event will not happen will usually be wrong – but it certainly becomes less likely as time passes. And unless Leave create another moment of opportunity – another wrong-footing of the established order – so as to force through the required Article 50 notification, then it may not happen at all.

David Allen Green writes the law and policy blog at FT.com

[seafoid]

I almost think the gfa has worked despite the dup and not because of them. I don't think they have anything constructive to offer at all. Putting the economy in their hands is a frightening prospect.

the protestant brain drain - how many Protestant QUB graduates work in Scotland of England- is reflected in the policies of the DUP who are elected by the rump. Gregory Campbell symbolises the situation.