Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023

[intheknowhow]

Should league status not seed your championship?

No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.

That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.

[ranch]

Should league status not seed your championship?

No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.

That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.

Of course it's an issue for Armagh.
But it's an example of why both league and championship should remain separate in my opinion. If they are to be linked then it's only fair that clubs have their county players available throughout the league.

[Armagh18]

Shanes also won the intermediate league last year without their county men for the bulk of it. League and championship linked is the only sensible way.

[general_lee]

Should league status not seed your championship?

No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.

That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.

Of course it's an issue for Armagh.
But it's an example of why both league and championship should remain separate in my opinion. If they are to be linked then it's only fair that clubs have their county players available throughout the league.

I don't understand how it's unfair. Every senior club was without their county players. Get this, some clubs have even more county players than Shanes. No matter what way you look at it, Shane O'Neill's are an intermediate standard club that are just shy 1/2 marquee players of being a very decent senior side. They won the league (without co players) and championship double and had a crack at senior. Even with the county players, would they have stayed up? Probably not.

[Dreadnought]

Thankfully it didn't matter but that was shit

Well it did matter in a 1 point win

Was that the winners that scored? I thought Glenullin scored that?

Yep, apologies, thought it was the other way

[ranch]

Should league status not seed your championship?

No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.

That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.

Of course it's an issue for Armagh.
But it's an example of why both league and championship should remain separate in my opinion. If they are to be linked then it's only fair that clubs have their county players available throughout the league.

I don't understand how it's unfair. Every senior club was without their county players. Get this, some clubs have even more county players than Shanes. No matter what way you look at it, Shane O'Neill's are an intermediate standard club that are just shy 1/2 marquee players of being a very decent senior side. They won the league (without co players) and championship double and had a crack at senior. Even with the county players, would they have stayed up? Probably not.

If you think it's a fair system then that's fine. Personally I think the system we have in Armagh is pretty poor.
I'm not from Shane O'Neills so couldn't care less if they win or lose, but I do want the championship system to be as fair as possible. The fact every team is missing players at senior level during the league doesn't make it a fair system as it clearly affects some clubs a lot more than others. A change to the seeding system at least would be a step in the right direction (maybe have 1a as the top seeds and 1b as the second seeds, rather than dividing them into 4 pots).
In my opinion the best way to run it is by having championship winners go up to the next grade and have relegation playoffs to decide which team drops down. I don't see how this would be any less fair than what we have in place now.
I'd also be keen for a return to straight knock out championship football, and an extra grade added below the junior.
Just my own personal opinions, and it's clear from reading this forum that most people now want leagues and championships linked closely, so I doubt I'll get my way any time soon.

[general_lee]

Should league status not seed your championship?

No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.

That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.

Of course it's an issue for Armagh.
But it's an example of why both league and championship should remain separate in my opinion. If they are to be linked then it's only fair that clubs have their county players available throughout the league.

I don't understand how it's unfair. Every senior club was without their county players. Get this, some clubs have even more county players than Shanes. No matter what way you look at it, Shane O'Neill's are an intermediate standard club that are just shy 1/2 marquee players of being a very decent senior side. They won the league (without co players) and championship double and had a crack at senior. Even with the county players, would they have stayed up? Probably not.

If you think it's a fair system then that's fine. Personally I think the system we have in Armagh is pretty poor.
I'm not from Shane O'Neills so couldn't care less if they win or lose, but I do want the championship system to be as fair as possible. The fact every team is missing players at senior level during the league doesn't make it a fair system as it clearly affects some clubs a lot more than others. A change to the seeding system at least would be a step in the right direction (maybe have 1a as the top seeds and 1b as the second seeds, rather than dividing them into 4 pots).
In my opinion the best way to run it is by having championship winners go up to the next grade and have relegation playoffs to decide which team drops down. I don't see how this would be any less fair than what we have in place now.
I'd also be keen for a return to straight knock out championship football, and an extra grade added below the junior.
Just my own personal opinions, and it's clear from reading this forum that most people now want leagues and championships linked closely, so I doubt I'll get my way any time soon.

We had league and championship unaligned before the current system, with Division 1 teams playing intermediate and Division 2 teams playing Junior similar to our Breffni friends.

Realistically losing county players doesn't overly impact the majority of clubs in league football except junior and weaker intermediate teams.  Cullyhanna have held their own in senior league football for about 15 years minus their county men until they were relegated last year and Shane O'Neill's won the intermediate league last year minus theirs.

I'm not a big fan of relegation play offs at championship level - harsh way to do things especially for a one-off match, at least over the course of a season if you finish bottom of the league you've no complaints.

I do agree in Armagh we could do with a Junior B competition — should also probably reduce senior and intermediate to 12 clubs rather than 16. I agree on a return to straight knock out as well.

[Brendan]

Toreen win 3 in a row Connaught Intermediate hurling championships, are the folk saying Glenullin should go into Derry senior going to comment on that?

[5times5times]

Hack of that pitch in Blaney. Bog with massive patches of parts with no grass.

[clarshack]

Toreen win 3 in a row Connaught Intermediate hurling championships, are the folk saying Glenullin should go into Derry senior going to comment on that?

Yes that is wrong also.

[imtommygunn]

Very different in the hurling. St Thomas's would hammer them.

[ardtole]

Toreen win 3 in a row Connaught Intermediate hurling championships, are the folk saying Glenullin should go into Derry senior going to comment on that?

Of course they should be promoted and there should be a connacht senior club hurling competition next year. Kildare, Westmeath, Carlow all have club representatives at senior Leinster club hurling level.

[clarshack]

Big win for Cullyhanna against Liatroim who are a decent side. Fancy Cullyhanna now to beat Division 1 Ballyhaise in the Final.

[intheknowhow]

Big win for Cullyhanna against Liatroim who are a decent side. Fancy Cullyhanna now to beat Division 1 Ballyhaise in the Final.

Don't worry the Cavan folk will tell you that the league doesn't matter and playing div 1 football is no advantage.

[mrdeeds]

Big win for Cullyhanna against Liatroim who are a decent side. Fancy Cullyhanna now to beat Division 1 Ballyhaise in the Final.

Don't worry the Cavan folk will tell you that the league doesn't matter and playing div 1 football is no advantage.

Speaking to Armagh lads I know they say Cullyhanna were a senior team playing intermediate.