John Mitchel - a lover of slavery - time to remove his name from GAA clubs?

[whitey]

But why just make a move on slavery?  Isn't that just selective outrage?

What about Stalinism and Naziism?

What about people who expressed anti traveller or anti gay sentiments?

I regret to say (if, like some have suggested on here, we  open the discussion to the wider community) we would also need to have  a discussion teams, pitches and competitions named in memory of IRA/INLA members

And what would be wrong with discussing any of that?

Nothing wrong with discussing it as long as we don't dispatch our history to the dustbin in a futile display of political correctness

Or equally as long as we don't preserve names in a futile and stubborn attempt to resist societal change and growing awareness of these kinds of issues.

"You live in the Castlebar catchment? Sure why don't you bring your kids down to the club?"
"Oh... I'd like to get them into gaelic games and I did think about it, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable joining a club named after an enthusiast of slavery. Thankfully, they're loving the soccer!"

If I were a club member, I would be prepared to lose players in order to take a stand. The club and it's name are as much part of the history of the town as is Lucan Street and Lord Lucan and the stained glass window in the parish church, dedicated to a regiment of the British Army for their exploits during the Boer War

Erasing history is for the weak and easily offended.

How is a name change "erasing history"?

You never have to talk about it or address it if you remove it.

Castlebar Mitchels actually had an expert come in and give a talk on the history of John Mitchel last year, long before a bunch of snowflakes got their knickers in a twist about something that's trending on social media. I wonder how many people outside the club bothered to attend

Ok, now you're starting to sound hysterical. Spare us the snowflake bullshit.

That aside, I don't get your logic. Are you saying that Castlebar should keep the name so that Mitchel and his views will be a topic of discussion? Seriously?

Regardless, the vast majority of people do not learn about Mitchel because a few clubs are named after him. And the replacement of his name in those clubs would not erase him from Irish history, any more than the removal of confederate statues from the public square in the US would erase their shameful, infamous  chapter from American history.

And also, the reason it's "trending" is because the vast majority of people didn't even know that some GAA clubs were named after a committed devotee of and advocate for antebellum southern slavery. It is absolutely an appropriate issue for discussion, just like those confederate flags and statues.

LOL-They had a discussion about him in the clubhouse 9 months ago

They brought in a PHD who had written his dissertation on "The Life of John Mitchell" and drove up all the way from Cork (I think) to deliver it

And yes....I think this opens up a real opportunity to have discussions around difficult, complicated  and nuanced historical and societal issues

I don't think I ever said it wasn't a topic for discussion.....I believe I said that after discussion it should be left up to the club members to decide what to do. They shouldn't be dictated to by a mob who've their knickers in a twist about something they read about in the internet

[sid waddell]

Erasing history is for the weak and easily offended.

I presume you were crying foul when the people of Berlin were demolishing the wall in 1989?

According to your argument, the abolition of slavery itself was "erasing history".

The term "erasing history" is tremendous altogether.

The first apppropriate description of it that pops into mind is by one Fr. Ted Crilly. "It's so vague and nobody really knows what it means".

That's because it means absolutely nothing, and is a front for dimwits to say something they think sounds vaguely intelligent, at least to other dimwits.

[sid waddell]

If I were a club member, I would be prepared to lose players in order to take a stand. The club and it's name are as much part of the history of the town as is Lucan Street and Lord Lucan and the stained glass window in the parish church, dedicated to a regiment of the British Army for their exploits during the Boer War

This sort of rhetoric is reminiscent of the pro-segregation nut jobs in the Saaaaaath in the 1960s.

[whitey]

Erasing history is for the weak and easily offended.

I presume you were crying foul when the people of Berlin were demolishing the wall in 1989?

According to your argument, the abolition of slavery itself was "erasing history".

The term "erasing history" is tremendous altogether.

The first apppropriate description of it that pops into mind is by one Fr. Ted Crilly. "It's so vague and nobody really knows what it means".

That's because it means absolutely nothing, and is a front for dimwits to say something they think sounds vaguely intelligent, at least to other dimwits.

Yaaaawwwwnnnnnn

The people who pulled down the Berlin Wall did not go back 150 years in a time machine, travel 3000 miles across an ocean, then pull knock down a wall that had zero impact on them or anyone related to them

[sid waddell]

Yaaaawwwwnnnnnn

Your entire post output summed up in one performatively dragged out word.

[J70]

But why just make a move on slavery?  Isn't that just selective outrage?

What about Stalinism and Naziism?

What about people who expressed anti traveller or anti gay sentiments?

I regret to say (if, like some have suggested on here, we  open the discussion to the wider community) we would also need to have  a discussion teams, pitches and competitions named in memory of IRA/INLA members

And what would be wrong with discussing any of that?

Nothing wrong with discussing it as long as we don't dispatch our history to the dustbin in a futile display of political correctness

Or equally as long as we don't preserve names in a futile and stubborn attempt to resist societal change and growing awareness of these kinds of issues.

"You live in the Castlebar catchment? Sure why don't you bring your kids down to the club?"
"Oh... I'd like to get them into gaelic games and I did think about it, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable joining a club named after an enthusiast of slavery. Thankfully, they're loving the soccer!"

If I were a club member, I would be prepared to lose players in order to take a stand. The club and it's name are as much part of the history of the town as is Lucan Street and Lord Lucan and the stained glass window in the parish church, dedicated to a regiment of the British Army for their exploits during the Boer War

Erasing history is for the weak and easily offended.

How is a name change "erasing history"?

You never have to talk about it or address it if you remove it.

Castlebar Mitchels actually had an expert come in and give a talk on the history of John Mitchel last year, long before a bunch of snowflakes got their knickers in a twist about something that's trending on social media. I wonder how many people outside the club bothered to attend

Ok, now you're starting to sound hysterical. Spare us the snowflake bullshit.

That aside, I don't get your logic. Are you saying that Castlebar should keep the name so that Mitchel and his views will be a topic of discussion? Seriously?

Regardless, the vast majority of people do not learn about Mitchel because a few clubs are named after him. And the replacement of his name in those clubs would not erase him from Irish history, any more than the removal of confederate statues from the public square in the US would erase their shameful, infamous  chapter from American history.

And also, the reason it's "trending" is because the vast majority of people didn't even know that some GAA clubs were named after a committed devotee of and advocate for antebellum southern slavery. It is absolutely an appropriate issue for discussion, just like those confederate flags and statues.

LOL-They had a discussion about him in the clubhouse 9 months ago

They brought in a PHD who had written his dissertation on "The Life of John Mitchell" and drove up all the way from Cork (I think) to deliver it

And yes....I think this opens up a real opportunity to have discussions around difficult, complicated  and nuanced historical and societal issues

I don't think I ever said it wasn't a topic for discussion.....I believe I said that after discussion it should be left up to the club members to decide what to do. They shouldn't be dictated to by a mob who've their knickers in a twist about something they read about in the internet

Who is saying they should be "dictated to by a mob who've their knickers in a twist about something they read about in the internet"?

This concerns more than just the clubs themselves though. The reputation of the wider GAA is affected by this kind of issue and they should be involved in any discussions.

I would have thought that given your whataboutery/slippery-slope approach to this, you would be an advocate for some sort of centralized look at it?

[whitey]

They can look at it all they want.....the decision should rest with the club......end of story

The "reputation" of the wider GAA could also be adversely affected by their association with paedophiles, Nazi sympathizers and IRA/INLA murder squads, but they're willing to take that risk because an internet mob haven't happened upon them.......yet

Here's what Joe Brolly said on the matter "It's nobody else's business - it's as simple as that," he said of the Dungiven club's name. "People can either like it or lump it."

[Baile Brigín 2]

They can look at it all they want.....the decision should rest with the club......end of story

The "reputation" of the wider GAA could also be adversely affected by their association with paedophiles, Nazi sympathizers and IRA/INLA murder squads, but they're willing to take that risk because an internet mob haven't happened upon them.......yet

I take it at this point you aren't going to elaborate on the Dan Breen was a Nazi line?

[whitey]

They can look at it all they want.....the decision should rest with the club......end of story

The "reputation" of the wider GAA could also be adversely affected by their association with paedophiles, Nazi sympathizers and IRA/INLA murder squads, but they're willing to take that risk because an internet mob haven't happened upon them.......yet

I take it at this point you aren't going to elaborate on the Dan Breen was a Nazi line?

Plenty of evidence all over the internet

https://markhumphrys.com/dan.breen.html

[Chief]

So are you just offended by slavery?

Are you not also offended by the Nazis? If you are, the Dan Breen Cup and the Galtee Mountain Boy should be all done. Ditto Tom Barry

Are you not offended by the IRA "murdering" people?  If you are several clubs, pitches and competitions will need to be renamed

Are you not offended by anti-semitism?  That's Arthur Griffith done, and possibly Michael Cusack too.

Are you not offended by child sexual abuse? Casement.....all done

So sure, have your knickers in a twist about John Mitchell......but let's look at the name of every team, cup and pitch in the country while we are at it. Either everything is on the table or nothing should be on the table.

I said the entire nation was offended by slavery.

As for the rest of them, yeah I'm offended. Let's look again at the lot of them imo.

If all the above is true, and as clear cut as you say, I'd be for their removal.

I'm not afraid of the consequences of that conversation, wherever it takes us.

Sounds like you are though...

[Chief]

They can look at it all they want.....the decision should rest with the club......end of story

The "reputation" of the wider GAA could also be adversely affected by their association with paedophiles, Nazi sympathizers and IRA/INLA murder squads, but they're willing to take that risk because an internet mob haven't happened upon them.......yet

Here's what Joe Brolly said on the matter "It's nobody else's business - it's as simple as that," he said of the Dungiven club's name. "People can either like it or lump it."

The Kevin Lynch thing proves my point entirely.

As far as I understand it, the only thing that people object to is his physical force republicanism. I'm not sure there was anything else, happy to be corrected though.

The people of Dungiven are celebrating his physical force republicanism and his courage on hunger strike.

I don't think the people of Dungiven would shy away from a conversation on it, I think it's others who are more scared of the consequences of that conversation than them given the 26 county state was founded on physical force republicanism.

And if under my plan, someone tried to use financial pressure to get them to change it, I'm 100% sure the people of Dungiven would face it down and say "do your worst, we'll still be called Kevin Lynch's on the other side" 

Adults, who can follow the logic of an argument to its conclusion you see.

[Baile Brigín 2]

They can look at it all they want.....the decision should rest with the club......end of story

The "reputation" of the wider GAA could also be adversely affected by their association with paedophiles, Nazi sympathizers and IRA/INLA murder squads, but they're willing to take that risk because an internet mob haven't happened upon them.......yet

I take it at this point you aren't going to elaborate on the Dan Breen was a Nazi line?

Plenty of evidence all over the internet

https://markhumphrys.com/dan.breen.html

Any chance of a credible, non extremist source?

[whitey]

They can look at it all they want.....the decision should rest with the club......end of story

The "reputation" of the wider GAA could also be adversely affected by their association with paedophiles, Nazi sympathizers and IRA/INLA murder squads, but they're willing to take that risk because an internet mob haven't happened upon them.......yet

Here's what Joe Brolly said on the matter "It's nobody else's business - it's as simple as that," he said of the Dungiven club's name. "People can either like it or lump it."

The Kevin Lynch thing proves my point entirely.

As far as I understand it, the only thing that people object to is his physical force republicanism. I'm not sure there was anything else, happy to be corrected though.

The people of Dungiven are celebrating his physical force republicanism and his courage on hunger strike.

I don't think the people of Dungiven would shy away from a conversation on it, I think it's others who are more scared of the consequences of that conversation than them given the 26 county state was founded on physical force republicanism.

And if under my plan, someone tried to use financial pressure to get them to change it, I'm 100% sure the people of Dungiven would face it down and say "do your worst, we'll still be called Kevin Lynch's on the other side" 

Adults, who can follow the logic of an argument to its conclusion you see.

Actually it doesn't

The decision should be left up to the club.

So you'd be willing to try and put a club out of business who've been around for 130 because they won't bow to an internet mob on the cause du jour

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gaa-clubs-free-to-name-grounds-after-ira-and-inla-insists-ulster-chief-37049176.html

[johnnycool]

St Paul's are gonna get it next;

Ephesians 6:5 New International Version (NIV)
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

[Chief]

They can look at it all they want.....the decision should rest with the club......end of story

The "reputation" of the wider GAA could also be adversely affected by their association with paedophiles, Nazi sympathizers and IRA/INLA murder squads, but they're willing to take that risk because an internet mob haven't happened upon them.......yet

Here's what Joe Brolly said on the matter "It's nobody else's business - it's as simple as that," he said of the Dungiven club's name. "People can either like it or lump it."

The Kevin Lynch thing proves my point entirely.

As far as I understand it, the only thing that people object to is his physical force republicanism. I'm not sure there was anything else, happy to be corrected though.

The people of Dungiven are celebrating his physical force republicanism and his courage on hunger strike.

I don't think the people of Dungiven would shy away from a conversation on it, I think it's others who are more scared of the consequences of that conversation than them given the 26 county state was founded on physical force republicanism.

And if under my plan, someone tried to use financial pressure to get them to change it, I'm 100% sure the people of Dungiven would face it down and say "do your worst, we'll still be called Kevin Lynch's on the other side" 

Adults, who can follow the logic of an argument to its conclusion you see.

Actually it doesn't

The decision should be left up to the club.

So you'd be willing to try and put a club out of business who've been around for 130 because they won't bow to an internet mob on the cause du jour

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gaa-clubs-free-to-name-grounds-after-ira-and-inla-insists-ulster-chief-37049176.html

I'm not saying it shouldn't be left up to any club. But they should accept the consequences of their decision.

No club should expect the wider GAA population to sit on its hands, and remain silent, until  they have an internal community epiphany on slavery.

If the wider GAA community has leverage to agitate for change, then they should use it