Tyrone v Monaghan the battle for Ulster’s heart aisf 2018

Started by rrhf, August 05, 2018, 06:09:52 PM

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oakleaflad

Quote from: Jayop on August 13, 2018, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 13, 2018, 11:09:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 13, 2018, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 13, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 13, 2018, 09:18:12 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 13, 2018, 09:05:12 AM
I'd like to have seen the Morgan incident before half time. The ref pulled him on something like the ball moving when he was taking a kick out? Cost Tyrone a point and cost me my HT/FT bet.
Took it well before the 13m line.

Hampsey wasn't outside the 21 when the ball was kicked. That's the 3rd time it's happened this year!! Silly thing to get caught on because it's not as if hampsey was even looking the ball.
I'm near sure all players were outside.
The ball was moving, it wasn't on the 13m line, maybe a player wasn't outside the 20 as well. There was numerous things wrong with it

Ball was fine where it was and the player was miles outside the twenty. Possible that the ball was just moving but like all these decisions against Morgan you never see any other keeper get pinged for doing the same things. Some of them are so nit pickey fro the refs it's like they've seen one fella do it and want to prove they can be eagle eyed too.
You sure? I admittedly haven't watched it back but remember thinking whilst watching the replay (live) that the player was about a yard inside the 21 when Morgan kicked it out and that was the reason the hop ball was given.

Jinxy

Don't think the ref had a decisive impact on the outcome.
You can't, with the benefit of hindsight, right all the wrongs that affected your side, without also doing the same for the other side.
Yesterday, as bad as the ref was, the poor decisions balanced themselves out over the course of the game.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

cjx

Quote from: BennyHarp on August 12, 2018, 11:04:29 PM
Quote from: cjx on August 12, 2018, 11:00:29 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 12, 2018, 10:10:04 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on August 12, 2018, 10:06:16 PM
Was it McShane who hit that disaster of a shot at the end? Couldn't believe it. Beggan subsequently bettered him though thankfully.
Tyrone did it throughout the game. Needlessly shooting from difficult positions instead of just holding on to it til they found someone in a gimme position.
This is the key point of soul destroying failures for Tyrone. 

It always amazes me because Tyrone have been doing this for 5+ years (see Mayo 2016 worst 34 chances 12 scores) They rarely score the expected total for a top class team and their conversion rate (the other way of judging shot selection/shooting success) is never up to usual top 4 standards (only against lesser teams like Roscommon and Armagh latterly). Tyrone do 'create' more 'chances' but less chances and a much better conversion rate giving 20+points is the target and better way. The misses shots, short, wide and frees missed are soul destroying and today was the same
With all this coaching etc etc How come Tyrone never take the extra 2-3 passes to get the right shot as Dublin do?

It must be an inbuilt lack of confidence/panic somewhere? Is Stephen O'Neill doing anything at all with Tyrone?
The defense is grand so Tyrone now practice your zen, coolness, self belief and patience up front and anything is possible as when 2 points down in 2008!

You do realise Tyrone are currently sat in an All Ireland final?

It's brilliant!
But aim for the top and as Harte says "....there's something to win in the final"
I want Tyrone to out Dublin Dublin and become default All_Ireland winners.

As we know chance creation of 30-40 is the range to aim for with a conversion rate of 66%+. That is the winning target. Doesn't always work that way  of course but it has for Dublin for 5 years now in all but two three matches. They got 36 chances and 66% conversion yesterday (83% in first half dipped second as it got easier and impatient subs tried to get on the starting line for final).

Dublin take about half their points from less than 35m range standing or with a steady slow run and direct on kick.

That is what's required and Tyrone showed bursts of it but not nearly enough to beat Dublin. Spirit I believe Tyrone have but that must translate into scores to compliment great defending obviously. Tyrone staggered to all their All-Ireland's but the now the, in ways boring, Dublin machine make spirit less and cold efficiency more important (Gavin is cold isn't he?).

Yet I believe Tyrone can of course win on 2/9. Dublin should have been 3 goals down with 15min gone against Galway.Their relatively small defense can't cope with strong full forwards (Richie Donnelly ) and well delivered high balls (holding down McAlliskey in Omagh) Cluxton can be panicked (last 10-15 in Omagh).
If Frank Burns had flipped the pass to his right If Mattie had held  Lee Brennan's smart pass The nervy inefficiency against craggy Monaghan is a real blessing in disguise.
Tyrone need cool patient finishing and a very strong full forward (Tyrone have the best most committed ever defense) its in them. Its up to Donnelly, Devlin, Harte and possibly most of all Stephen O'Neill given his forward's role to help the players bring it out in full flower. Definitely all to play for!

Keyser soze

On the referee I think the main thing is that he blew anything that approached physical contact and quite a few that wouldn't even reach this threshold in most people's minds. 

A few that stand out for me was the free McAliskey nailed [great strike] when he adjudged that Harte was pushed when it was clearly 2 men going for the ball in the air.

The sideline before the goal was 2 men challenging for the ball IMO. 

He gave a free against McManus the time he played the ball in the ground and I watched it a couple of times and still do not know what that was for.

Before MCCann's lovely score McManus was blatantly pushed over the sideline [though he had already lost control of the ball]

Cavanagh's charge... does this even require comment.

The last incident with K Hughes... I couldn't decide what happened after multiple viewings so correct not to give free.

Playing 3 minutes of injury time....that's the first time I've seen that in championship in a couple of years. 

Poor poor performance in a game where 2 teams went out to play football.   

Zulu

Quote from: hardstation on August 13, 2018, 08:34:18 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 13, 2018, 08:22:43 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on August 12, 2018, 11:58:30 PM
Which does more harm for Gaelic football.......

Dublin winning their 4th of 8 in a row or Tyrone winning one this year........


But Tyrone gives hope to a lot of moderate footballers out there... jesus Colm Cavanagh  ....

Most of the 50/50s seemed to go Tyrones way (and one or two that weren't even 50/50 - how did mcmanus not get a free for being slapped in the face, which the ref had to see because he stopped play for treatment!).
Was that in the 1st half? He did get a free which was taken by someone else. It was strangely kicked backwards then given to the free taker who was now in a more difficult position and he kicked it over. Wasn't much of a free either.

That wasn't a free. The ref stopped play for the injury and as Monaghan had possession they had the restart but couldn't score directly from it. Thought ref was very harsh on Monaghan overall.

Zulu

Quote from: sam03/05 on August 13, 2018, 09:02:17 AM
The ref gave as many poor decisions against Tyrone as he did Monaghan
The Monaghan big decision came at the end and it was never a free as Hughes was all over him. So he made the right call on that one. As for extra time, there was very little injuries in the game. He played the right amount as the subs made as shown on the Sunday Game last night. As well as that he played an extra 40 seconds over the 3 minutes.
Overall the ref was poor for both teams and it's sour grapes from Monaghan.

Ah here, there were quite a few stoppages outside of the subs. 3 minutes was a joke.

Jayop

Haven't seen it back at all. Was at the game and looking right at it and he looked a mile outside me.

JoG2

Quote from: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 11:44:14 AM
Don't think the ref had a decisive impact on the outcome.
You can't, with the benefit of hindsight, right all the wrongs that affected your side, without also doing the same for the other side.
Yesterday, as bad as the ref was, the poor decisions balanced themselves out over the course of the game.

eh? With 1 point separating the two teams, Nolan's performance had a huge impact. Very sore on Monaghan

nrico2006

McAliskey was fouled in the first half when attempting to lift the ball. Monaghan got the free and scored. Surprised Beggans balls up hasnt received more attention, he saw the headlines and made a hash.
'To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal, light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle.'

straightred

Quote from: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 11:44:14 AM
Don't think the ref had a decisive impact on the outcome.
You can't, with the benefit of hindsight, right all the wrongs that affected your side, without also doing the same for the other side.
Yesterday, as bad as the ref was, the poor decisions balanced themselves out over the course of the game.

That's Sunday game standard analysis, i.e. lazy. Bit like when a ref takes the lazy way out and books both players for an incident it is clear that there is only one guilty party.

The ref had a mare and the incidents didn't come close to balancing out.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/brian-gavin-referee-nolan-may-look-back-with-regret-861793.html

RedHand88

Quote from: oakleaflad on August 13, 2018, 11:40:26 AM
Quote from: Jayop on August 13, 2018, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 13, 2018, 11:09:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 13, 2018, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 13, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 13, 2018, 09:18:12 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 13, 2018, 09:05:12 AM
I'd like to have seen the Morgan incident before half time. The ref pulled him on something like the ball moving when he was taking a kick out? Cost Tyrone a point and cost me my HT/FT bet.
Took it well before the 13m line.

Hampsey wasn't outside the 21 when the ball was kicked. That's the 3rd time it's happened this year!! Silly thing to get caught on because it's not as if hampsey was even looking the ball.
I'm near sure all players were outside.
The ball was moving, it wasn't on the 13m line, maybe a player wasn't outside the 20 as well. There was numerous things wrong with it

Ball was fine where it was and the player was miles outside the twenty. Possible that the ball was just moving but like all these decisions against Morgan you never see any other keeper get pinged for doing the same things. Some of them are so nit pickey fro the refs it's like they've seen one fella do it and want to prove they can be eagle eyed too.
You sure? I admittedly haven't watched it back but remember thinking whilst watching the replay (live) that the player was about a yard inside the 21 when Morgan kicked it out and that was the reason the hop ball was given.

Yea hampsey is about a yard inside with his back to Morgan walking towards the 21. Had Morgan waited another second or two it would have been fine.

Jinxy

Quote from: straightred on August 13, 2018, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 11:44:14 AM
Don't think the ref had a decisive impact on the outcome.
You can't, with the benefit of hindsight, right all the wrongs that affected your side, without also doing the same for the other side.
Yesterday, as bad as the ref was, the poor decisions balanced themselves out over the course of the game.

That's Sunday game standard analysis, i.e. lazy. Bit like when a ref takes the lazy way out and books both players for an incident it is clear that there is only one guilty party.

The ref had a mare and the incidents didn't come close to balancing out.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/brian-gavin-referee-nolan-may-look-back-with-regret-861793.html

Withdraw that remark immediately.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

redcard

Quote from: straightred on August 13, 2018, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 11:44:14 AM
Don't think the ref had a decisive impact on the outcome.
You can't, with the benefit of hindsight, right all the wrongs that affected your side, without also doing the same for the other side.
Yesterday, as bad as the ref was, the poor decisions balanced themselves out over the course of the game.

That's Sunday game standard analysis, i.e. lazy. Bit like when a ref takes the lazy way out and books both players for an incident it is clear that there is only one guilty party.

The ref had a mare and the incidents didn't come close to balancing out.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/brian-gavin-referee-nolan-may-look-back-with-regret-861793.html

If the ref was lazy he would have played for a draw and given Monaghan a free. That Irish examiner article is one sided and the perfect example of lazy journalism.

yellowcard

Quote from: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 11:44:14 AM
Don't think the ref had a decisive impact on the outcome.
You can't, with the benefit of hindsight, right all the wrongs that affected your side, without also doing the same for the other side.
Yesterday, as bad as the ref was, the poor decisions balanced themselves out over the course of the game.

This surely must be one of the most over used phrases in football/sport in general but of course it's rarely if ever true. Monaghan had some decisions go their way but it felt from watching the match that they were the victims of some bad decisions more often than Tyrone. The Peter Harte free kick before half time that McAlliskey pointed was probably the worst example of really poor refereeing where Harte was not even expecting a free kick.

It was just a poor display by the referee and I would have expected a more experienced official to be placed in charge of such a big game. I wouldn't necessarily say that Monaghan deserved to win but a draw would have felt about right yesterday, neither side played particularly well.   

straightred

Quote from: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 12:43:10 PM
Quote from: straightred on August 13, 2018, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 11:44:14 AM
Don't think the ref had a decisive impact on the outcome.
You can't, with the benefit of hindsight, right all the wrongs that affected your side, without also doing the same for the other side.
Yesterday, as bad as the ref was, the poor decisions balanced themselves out over the course of the game.

That's Sunday game standard analysis, i.e. lazy. Bit like when a ref takes the lazy way out and books both players for an incident it is clear that there is only one guilty party.

The ref had a mare and the incidents didn't come close to balancing out.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/brian-gavin-referee-nolan-may-look-back-with-regret-861793.html

Withdraw that remark immediately.
Sorry but why. The Sunday Game are hopeless. They go out of their way to make it look at though it all balances out. Cooper got a good dig in last night and Murphy was only dying to tell it as it was but for whatever reason he pulled back. You can maybe make an argument that decisions balance out over a season but we aren't talking about a season. In a single game poor ref decisions rarely balance out.

I left Croker yesterday thinking the ref was worth 2 points to tyrone but now having read some of the more reasoned comments here and elsewhere i'm upping that to 3 or maybe even 4. I had kids with me who only care about Dublin and they thought the same. I keep going back to it but any ref that gives cavanagh a free for that barge shouldn't be reffing senior football never mind an AI semi final.

At the end of the day i don't think it will matter as I cant see Tyrone getting close to Dublin (and that's not arrogance). Dublin are a significant step up and if Tyrone needed handouts to beat Monaghan they'll need a few miracles to beat Dublin