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Know what you're getting at but McGeeney and McGuinness very different types. I'd imagine Jim's type of management has a short shelf life before players start getting sick of him.

Same as gallagher. Players buy into it but the training and work involved has a short lifespan as players cant sustain it. If you dont win within 2-3 years it aint going to happen.

McGeeney record as a manager is pretty horrible when setting aside the AI. For 5 years they never won a championship match, have been relegated multiple times, never won an ulster and he was badly found out when he sat and watched Kerry destroy their kick outs without changing anything.

https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/kieran-mcgeeney-the-career-and-history-of-armaghs-manager-and-all-ireland-winner-EBYTZDBWQRFBJHXSAXKLSPDAWY/

Unlike Tyrone, Armagh don't seem to have the same rate of high standard players coming through from underage, he could only do so much in those early days.  As an Armagh man. to get them back competing is something in itself.     

You would imagine O'Rourke will be at the helm of Tyrone for 4/5years at least (barring a disaster).  On the back of 3 AI u20 winning sides I would expect big things from Tyrone in next few years. 

So far he has not won an Ulster and gotten them relegated from division 1.  Not a great start for him. 

 

Don't think any team would wait 5 years for a championship win. Armaagh had

McGeeney record as a manager is pretty horrible when setting aside the AI. For 5 years they never won a championship match, have been relegated multiple times, never won an ulster and he was badly found out when he sat and watched Kerry destroy their kick outs without changing anything.

https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/kieran-mcgeeney-the-career-and-history-of-armaghs-manager-and-all-ireland-winner-EBYTZDBWQRFBJHXSAXKLSPDAWY/

Unlike Tyrone, Armagh don't seem to have the same rate of high standard players coming through from underage, he could only do so much in those early days.  As an Armagh man. to get them back competing is something in itself.     

You would imagine O'Rourke will be at the helm of Tyrone for 4/5years at least (barring a disaster).  On the back of 3 AI u20 winning sides I would expect big things from Tyrone in next few years. 

So far he has not won an Ulster and gotten them relegated from division 1.  Not a great start for him. 

 

Agree not a great start but don't think we will wait 5 years for a championship win without changing the manager. Armagh had good players during that period, don't think you can say its all down to the players. Good managers inspire players and develop tactics that suit the team. Mcgeeney was there in backroom from 2013 to 2015 then as manager from 2015 to now. Essentially 12 years without an ulster title.

McGeeney record as a manager is pretty horrible when setting aside the AI. For 5 years they never won a championship match, have been relegated multiple times, never won an ulster and he was badly found out when he sat and watched Kerry destroy their kick outs without changing anything.

https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/kieran-mcgeeney-the-career-and-history-of-armaghs-manager-and-all-ireland-winner-EBYTZDBWQRFBJHXSAXKLSPDAWY/

[People are forgetting that kerry were getting beat for majority of that match.]

20 minutes of football is doing an awful amount of heavy lifting for Darragh's argument on Kerry there.

In the same way that Tyrone can go out against Donegal and put in a very good performance but look like a reserve team the next week against Mayo, Kerry can blow hot and cold like anyone else.

And to be honest, it has been lukewarm for the most part.

That 15-20min spell could be kerrys undoing. People are forgetting that kerry were getting beat for majority of that match. While that spell was fantastic aramgh did absolutely nothing to stop it. They kept trying the same tactic.

O'se questions if tyrone can kick a few 2 pointers like they did against Dublin. Obvious question should have been can kerry score 14 points out of 14 attacks again.

I said before that the kerry game defensively armagh werent great. Would say tyrones defense will be better than Armaghs.

What game were you watching? Kerry lead from the start up to Grugans goal after 29mins. Then went back in front no more than 3 mins later. McElroy put Armagh 1 up with the last kick of the half.
From 43rd minute when Clifford kicked a 2 pointer to finish Kerry,led all the way. Armagh were ahead for a sum total of around 9/10 minutes.

Point was kerry were hardly dominating armagh until that 15min spell. Armagh led in 29 min, kerry pulled it back but then Armagh went in front before half time until kerry drew level in the 45min when they got 14 points in 14 shots

20 minutes of football is doing an awful amount of heavy lifting for Darragh's argument on Kerry there.

In the same way that Tyrone can go out against Donegal and put in a very good performance but look like a reserve team the next week against Mayo, Kerry can blow hot and cold like anyone else.

And to be honest, it has been lukewarm for the most part.

That 15-20min spell could be kerrys undoing. People are forgetting that kerry were getting beat for majority of that match. While that spell was fantastic aramgh did absolutely nothing to stop it. They kept trying the same tactic.

O'se questions if tyrone can kick a few 2 pointers like they did against Dublin. Obvious question should have been can kerry score 14 points out of 14 attacks again.

I said before that the kerry game defensively armagh werent great. Would say tyrones defense will be better than Armaghs.

The worry with that is Kerry pole axing Mcelholm early.

Canavan is not firing, McCurry was poor by his own standards last day.

Do you bench one of them and hope they'll have the character to come in later and blaze over a few?

McKernan is a huge blow, have to fancy Kerry by 5 or so.

If its as hot as forecast Paudie may lag towards end. A game that suits the young lads, ruairi canavan has had a frustrating year...the space created by new rules in Croker should really suit him.

Would bench Darragh and start mcelhom. McCurry had one off day all year, he has proven time and time again hes a class act and can turn it on from off the bench.

Darragh has been poor for majority of the year. Benching him and showing he cant live off his name might ignite a fire within him.

Bradley is lively and is back from injury. Definitely worth at least 20 mins from the bench.

Tyrone need direct running at the kerry defence and not this current hand passing around the half way line. Quick early ball into mcelhom and mccurry will have kerry on the back foot. Throw in a few long balls by rotating a few big men in the square and tyrone will edge it.

Back to the here and now...25 degress this weekend. Who are the fitter team? Whose bench can be called upon earlier in the day?

This is literally heat of battle stuff on Sunday.

Would say kerry are the fitter side. Tyrone havent looked as fit as top teams since donnelly left coaching set up.

Amount of chances tyrone have missed is mental

Not sure how jumping on someones back isn't a free

Thoughts on moving mattie closer to goal and starting sparky. Mattie has the physical presence missing in forward line and sparky has the speed and movement.

Would allow us to end with our strongest team on the pitch.

Also option of rotating kennedy or conn into forwards for a few long balls throughout the match.

Can't see it, Matty at 11 seems the order of the day with Dazzler and Darragh inside, they definitely start with that

Interesting one for me is whether Petey Harte starts or held in reserve, I'd be inclined to start him

The thing is thats what everyone is half expecting. As tyrone havent been putting in great performances they need something unexpected. Definitely think big kennedy in for a few long balls would cause a bit of chaos.

If you start with mccurry and darragh who do you bring on to change it up other than McElholm

Thoughts on moving mattie closer to goal and starting sparky. Mattie has the physical presence missing in forward line and sparky has the speed and movement.

Would allow us to end with our strongest team on the pitch.

Also option of rotating kennedy or conn into forwards for a few long balls throughout the match.

Mind the time the Kerry lads were convinced Stephen O'Neill tried to poison them with water. They are a mad bunch of eegits down there.

Wow. That's unhinged.

They are still convinced to this day. The rumour was that Stephen O'Neill poisoned a bottle of water carried it around all game with him while avoiding giving it to any Tyrone player only to wait on a Kerry player to come and ask him for a drink. Even writing it sounds mad never mind believing it.

The Kerry fans put a pic on reddit from the game which supposedly showed the bottle of poisoned water- I am not kidding. https://www.reddit.com/r/GAA/comments/cqoy14/stephen_obrien_drinking_water_from_a_tyrone_maor/

["The Tyrone crowd, who significantly outnumbered their opposition"]

I think those who were there made plenty of noise; there just weren't enough of us.

It's worth a study.

Something happened post-2021 in terms of the supporter psyche. In the latter Harte years, there was a bit of staleness, but I don't think it's still a hangover of that.

I genuinely don't know why it is what it is.

2021? I feel like supporters haven't came out in the same numbers post 2005, definitely post 2008/2009. It is odd as it's not due to lack of interest in football as club football is so strong and I'm sure most are well informed on the county team and not indifferent.

I know the dubs have fallen off big time (understandably) and the likes of Kildare maybe, but I think those are more casual, but I can't think of similar instances of it.

The county set up probably does need to do more. Even their social media stuff is inconsistent, not even always having the team up before a game.

Interested in other theories.

The semi-final of 2015:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0823/723054-kerry-v-tyrone/

"The Tyrone crowd, who significantly outnumbered their opposition"

Attendance was 53,044

https://munster.gaa.ie/event/0all-ireland-senior-football-championship-semi-final-kerry-v-tyrone/

The attendance at same stage four years later was down to 33,848

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0811/1068238-kerry-come-alive-in-second-half-to-surge-past-tyrone/

So what happened between 2015 and 2019? for me it was the 2 defeats to Dublin in 2017 and 2018, especially the hammering in 2017. These defeats seemed to do a lot of damage to supporter morale at that time. Then in 2021 a lot of supporters probably happy enough to stay at home with Covid and the 3 subsequent seasons after the football produced by Tyrone was dire. So dire in fact that Saturday's game versus Dublin was only the second time Tyrone played championship football in Croke Park since the 2021 Final.
Maybe the Dublin victory will reignite passion among the Tyrone supporters and we get a good turnout on the 12th.

For me its down to 2 main issues-

Pre 2021- Tyrone played some boring lateral football under last few years of Mickey. You knew you wouldnt get beat by much but you knew it wasnt going to be good enough against the top teams.

Post 2021- 4 years since AI win and we haven't put 2 good never mind great back to back performances together. Still haven't done this yet under Malachy either.

Over say last 8 years Tyrone football has not been great to watch or to get excited about bar 2021. No wonder fans dont want to spend massive money attending games. Hopefully we are starting to turn the corner and put that all behind us.

Sometimes it up to the team to bring supporters out. Much like Armagh last year and Kerry in the quarter finals.

Teams need to have a default tactic to go to when they're getting pressed on their kickouts. For every tactic there's a counter tactic.  Teams simply can't afford to get hammered on the kickout like that. Maybe Armagh did have  a tactic (hit it to the wings), and it just wasn't enough on the day. From where i was sitting high up in the Davin, Rafferty didn't have a lot of options to kick to. There wasn't much movement and the spaces were pretty much closed off. Eye of the needle stuff trying to pick out a player to ping it to in those circumstances.  So the only thing was to try and belt it as long as f... up the pitch and hope one of our players could break it or flick it on for a player running into oceans of space.  If a team like Kerry are pushing up, there's going to be space behind - they don't have 17 players on the pitch.  If we had got in behind them just the once, that would have scared them enough to stop pushing up. All ifs and maybes, but the lesson for other teams caught in the same scenario is have a tactic to go to, something that will break the cycle.  It's not the first time this has happened this year, with the effect of the new rules.  I saw Armagh do the same thing in the league match with Dublin.  Only difference was, it was in the first half and Dublin had a chance to regroup at half time.  The timing of Kerry's press was perfect for them - the third quarter when the game was there to be won, and Armagh didn't have the benefit of a half time analysis to figure out what was happening and a chance to regroup.  Plenty of learning there for Tyrone.

After 2 or so missed kickouts the default position should have been get it as far away from goal as possible. Long ball down the middle, even a side line ball further down the pitch would have bought them a few extra seconds. Still cant understand how even the keeper didnt think to change it up a bit.

That's the issue with programmed players who couldn't think for themselves and who are overcoached. Tyrone suffered from this problem for the last number of years under Harte.

Kerry have always been sore. When they win it's shake hands like men and leave what happened on the field on the field. But when they lose they'll fairly cry foul.

No mention of the knee drop on Burns's head that he had to go off for. Replays wouldn't show it for some reason. Certainly done them no harm on the Armagh kickouts.

Didn't see that in real time and haven't seen a replay, thought he had hit his head off the ground to be honest.

Was McCambridge taken out of it off the ball early in the first half? He was down for a bit and got up and was complaining to the umpires.

Burns was fouled and fell face first into the ground, that's what caused the cut. Ignore the Thrones trying to draw you into their web!

Not sure how falling face first into a wet soft ground splits your head open lol. Dont know what exactly happened but clearly he hit something hard.