Antrim Hurling

[Franko]

Then why don't you execute it legally?

To simplify it better, a ref can only blow for a free if he sees it.

But it's a grey area that the GAA authorities need to clear up.

There are some examples of changing it but let's see how that pans out

It's not grey at all.  It's very clear.  The fact that you (as a referee) think it's a grey area tells me that I'm 100% right here.

[Franko]

I'm not sure how to best approach it, if he's seen no foul he can't call it, just because (in your opinion) 95% of the hand passes are illegal, if that is the case then just ban it altogether.

Ref'd a game on Sunday possibly 2 that I caught 4 I was unsure of the rest grand.

I assume you let the ones you were unsure of go? That's the nub if it: if you were unsure, there was obviously no 'definite' striking action, and it should have been a foul. I realise, of course, that a whistle-happy ref. ain't going to be too popular, but if the rule was enforced properly players wouldn't so readily chance a throw.

You play at all? If a ref pulled you every time you made a legal hand pass would you be pleased?  Just because the ref isn't in position? Give your head a shake

Let me get this straight

There were a total of 6 suspect handpasses in the game, and you found yourself 'out of position' for 4 of them?

Do you miss 66% of the rest of the suspected fouls?

Or is it just the handpasses?

[Milltown Row2]

Then why don't you execute it legally?

To simplify it better, a ref can only blow for a free if he sees it.

But it's a grey area that the GAA authorities need to clear up.

There are some examples of changing it but let's see how that pans out

It's not grey at all.  It's very clear.  The fact that you (as a referee) think it's a grey area tells me that I'm 100% right here.

Whatever. Your opinion won't change how I referee the game though. If I don't see a foul it's play on.

The grey area is the ref should only blow when he sees a foul.

If a Referee doesn't see someone getting whacked in the mouth, but a man stands over him with a bloody hurl, can the ref send him off?

I've seen plenty calls during televised games where the ref blows for a throw and slow mo sees clear hand pass.

Personally I'll go with my own experience, having  played senior right through to my mid 40's, managed a club final at Croke (got hammered though lol) but with regards to rules and playing I'm happy enough with my interpretation, if someone was stopping the game because he wasn't in the right position or sure to see every hand pass, then, blow up legal hand passes I'd be very annoyed at his performance

I'd be happy to invite you on to the refereeing panel and assess your performance though. Players want the game flowing, they don't want a free taking contest.

As for your last post, hurling ball moves at a serious rate, maybe you're not familiar with it, when a ball can be hit 80 yards in a second you ( seem clever enough) think a ref can make that distance ?

[NAG1]

Hand pass is a really difficult one but frustrating for people actually watching.

A lot of the hand passes which people complain about are coming out of a tackle or a ruck situation where is nearly impossible for the ref to be at the right angle to be 100% sure either way.

[Milltown Row2]

Hand pass is a really difficult one but frustrating for people actually watching.

A lot of the hand passes which people complain about are coming out of a tackle or a ruck situation where is nearly impossible for the ref to be at the right angle to be 100% sure either way.

An example on Sunday, I'm in the right position I see the hand pass clearly and everyone on the other side of the ruck, either on the line or players are all calling "throw ball"

Those throws in a ruck, its basically one swing of the arm and its a clear non strike action, its easier to see them but if I'm directly behind a player and he 'hand passes' the ball, if I can't see he committed a technical foul I can't just assume he did, how would that go down if you, as a supporter, see those calls in a game?

You do what you can do and call it as you see it, its more so at intercounty level than club in my opinion.

[barnish oggie]

There must be something about technique as on Sunday we had 1 player blew up 3 times for throwing and the opposition didn't even call it any of those 3 times.

I will be honest, the first one i wasn't sure about but the second two i could see clearly and there was a definite striking action so i don't believe they should have been frees.

Cost us in the end as we lost by 3 (a result you would have been happy to see MR2!) and the opposition scored from 2 of those frees, which had also broke up attacks that we were on which could have lead to a score.

Strange thing was, he was the only player in the whole game blew up for it and was only a second half sub, so he needs to work on his execution as obviously the ref didn't agree with it!

[Milltown Row2]

There must be something about technique as on Sunday we had 1 player blew up 3 times for throwing and the opposition didn't even call it any of those 3 times.

I will be honest, the first one i wasn't sure about but the second two i could see clearly and there was a definite striking action so i don't believe they should have been frees.

Cost us in the end as we lost by 3 (a result you would have been happy to see MR2!) and the opposition scored from 2 of those frees, which had also broke up attacks that we were on which could have lead to a score.

Strange thing was, he was the only player in the whole game blew up for it and was only a second half sub, so he needs to work on his execution as obviously the ref didn't agree with it!

Yeah I heard it was a tight enough game and as you say these things can 'swing' for you or against you but the ref won't get every foul regardless if its a bad hand pass or a tug of the shirt, there are at times 6 or 7 people in those rucks so its not easy to spot things, but sure when you are standing on the sideline or at the far end of the pitch its easier to see these things 

Going forward it seems to be the best position at the ground to officiate the game 

[Antrim Coaster]

Unfortunate not to take the win at the weekend. The lads gave it absolutely everything.

Some strange tactical elements from our side, but that's the manager's prerogative. Hopefully can take a bit of confidence from this forward into the other games.

In what way NAG1? I give us more than a fighting chance this weekend. I think Wexford are very average

Dublin were probably bang average too and we had them at home.

Found it strange selection of the first substitution to replace NE, just from a positional and tactical POV.

Puck out strategy was another one I couldn't understand.

Look I'm not trying to be negative because the team gave absolutely everything and commitment was there in spades, it's just a few things that I didn't get watching on.

He went over on his ankle in front of the Antrim mentors.

[NAG1]

Unfortunate not to take the win at the weekend. The lads gave it absolutely everything.

Some strange tactical elements from our side, but that's the manager's prerogative. Hopefully can take a bit of confidence from this forward into the other games.

In what way NAG1? I give us more than a fighting chance this weekend. I think Wexford are very average

Dublin were probably bang average too and we had them at home.

Found it strange selection of the first substitution to replace NE, just from a positional and tactical POV.

Puck out strategy was another one I couldn't understand.

Look I'm not trying to be negative because the team gave absolutely everything and commitment was there in spades, it's just a few things that I didn't get watching on.

He went over on his ankle in front of the Antrim mentors.

That part wasn't the issue. He was clearly unable to continue...read again.

[saffman]

Just to 'throw' in my tupence on the handpass - pardon the pun...

Agree with MR on this and his application - hurling is played at 100mph and no ref in the country will NE able to position themselves perfectly for every play (its impossible) you can't be blowing fouls for throwballs unless the ref sees a throwball.

We also can't be having referees guess and blowing up because they're assuming no striking action takes place. that's a slippery slope i wouldn't want to go down regards ruining the game.

Also dissappointing to see foks want the game referred to the technicality of the rulebook, its the very thing that will again ruin the game.

[Franko]

Just to 'throw' in my tupence on the handpass - pardon the pun...

Agree with MR on this and his application - hurling is played at 100mph and no ref in the country will NE able to position themselves perfectly for every play (its impossible) you can't be blowing fouls for throwballs unless the ref sees a throwball.

We also can't be having referees guess and blowing up because they're assuming no striking action takes place. that's a slippery slope i wouldn't want to go down regards ruining the game.

Also dissappointing to see foks want the game referred to the technicality of the rulebook, its the very thing that will again ruin the game.

This is the problem in my mind

The ref doesn't need to see a throwball - he just needs to see a handpass completed without a DEFINITE striking action

The rules are there to police the handpass, but refs/players/supporters are currently of a mindset that unless it's a definite throw, it's not a foul

The only person that can drive the change is the referees - and they currently have all the tools required to do it

On the point that the ref can't see everything - of course he can't

But don't tell me he can't see 66% of them

[GAAhead2013]

Just to 'throw' in my tupence on the handpass - pardon the pun...

Agree with MR on this and his application - hurling is played at 100mph and no ref in the country will NE able to position themselves perfectly for every play (its impossible) you can't be blowing fouls for throwballs unless the ref sees a throwball.

We also can't be having referees guess and blowing up because they're assuming no striking action takes place. that's a slippery slope i wouldn't want to go down regards ruining the game.

Also dissappointing to see foks want the game referred to the technicality of the rulebook, its the very thing that will again ruin the game.

This is the problem in my mind

The ref doesn't need to see a throwball - he just needs to see a handpass completed without a DEFINITE striking action

The rules are there to police the handpass, but refs/players/supporters are currently of a mindset that unless it's a definite throw, it's not a foul

The only person that can drive the change is the referees - and they currently have all the tools required to do it

On the point that the ref can't see everything - of course he can't

But don't tell me he can't see 66% of them

As a player and a coach I find it hard to believe that you still play. Let's say that the ball in is your defence.... Is struck up to a half forward/corner forward, who pops a handpass off to a runner coming off the shoulder all within the space of 2-5 seconds, and you think the ref will should be up with that play to see the handpass from the perfect angle? And to add to that, you want the ref to blow it if he doesn't see it??? It's 2 or 3 refs you need per game!

As a player my view is this, unless the man overhand throws the ball 20/30 yards over the bar, then get on with the game and make sure you or your team mates do enough to prevent the pass or subsequent score from happening. If it happens and the ref doesn't blow, get up, get on with it and get the next score. Leave the game alone ffs.

[Milltown Row2]

Just to 'throw' in my tupence on the handpass - pardon the pun...

Agree with MR on this and his application - hurling is played at 100mph and no ref in the country will NE able to position themselves perfectly for every play (its impossible) you can't be blowing fouls for throwballs unless the ref sees a throwball.

We also can't be having referees guess and blowing up because they're assuming no striking action takes place. that's a slippery slope i wouldn't want to go down regards ruining the game.

Also dissappointing to see foks want the game referred to the technicality of the rulebook, its the very thing that will again ruin the game.

This is the problem in my mind

The ref doesn't need to see a throwball - he just needs to see a handpass completed without a DEFINITE striking action

The rules are there to police the handpass, but refs/players/supporters are currently of a mindset that unless it's a definite throw, it's not a foul

The only person that can drive the change is the referees - and they currently have all the tools required to do it

On the point that the ref can't see everything - of course he can't

But don't tell me he can't see 66% of them

Nothing you have said is wrong, a clear striking action.

But I'd rather a game of hurling (that I'm watching) were there will be the odd foul missed be it a tug of shirt or throw ball or the odd over carrying for it to descend into a free taking competition

The games not broke because of this throwing the ball, if this task force come up with something that will help improve it then great, what it won't do is improve the fitness of the referee to be in all positions at all times to see a 'throw ball',

In any given game at senior level I cover between 4 and 4.5 miles that be typical distance for a club game. At intercounty they are generally covering 6 or more miles per game. Give the lines men the ability to call them, they are (at intercounty) mic'd up so not difficult to implement, that be 3 pairs of eyes

[Franko]

Just to 'throw' in my tupence on the handpass - pardon the pun...

Agree with MR on this and his application - hurling is played at 100mph and no ref in the country will NE able to position themselves perfectly for every play (its impossible) you can't be blowing fouls for throwballs unless the ref sees a throwball.

We also can't be having referees guess and blowing up because they're assuming no striking action takes place. that's a slippery slope i wouldn't want to go down regards ruining the game.

Also dissappointing to see foks want the game referred to the technicality of the rulebook, its the very thing that will again ruin the game.

This is the problem in my mind

The ref doesn't need to see a throwball - he just needs to see a handpass completed without a DEFINITE striking action

The rules are there to police the handpass, but refs/players/supporters are currently of a mindset that unless it's a definite throw, it's not a foul

The only person that can drive the change is the referees - and they currently have all the tools required to do it

On the point that the ref can't see everything - of course he can't

But don't tell me he can't see 66% of them

As a player and a coach I find it hard to believe that you still play. Let's say that the ball in is your defence.... Is struck up to a half forward/corner forward, who pops a handpass off to a runner coming off the shoulder all within the space of 2-5 seconds, and you think the ref will should be up with that play to see the handpass from the perfect angle? And to add to that, you want the ref to blow it if he doesn't see it??? It's 2 or 3 refs you need per game!

As a player my view is this, unless the man overhand throws the ball 20/30 yards over the bar, then get on with the game and make sure you or your team mates do enough to prevent the pass or subsequent score from happening. If it happens and the ref doesn't blow, get up, get on with it and get the next score. Leave the game alone ffs.

If you could direct me to the place where I said any of this, or anything like it, it would be appreciated.

[Franko]

Just to 'throw' in my tupence on the handpass - pardon the pun...

Agree with MR on this and his application - hurling is played at 100mph and no ref in the country will NE able to position themselves perfectly for every play (its impossible) you can't be blowing fouls for throwballs unless the ref sees a throwball.

We also can't be having referees guess and blowing up because they're assuming no striking action takes place. that's a slippery slope i wouldn't want to go down regards ruining the game.

Also dissappointing to see foks want the game referred to the technicality of the rulebook, its the very thing that will again ruin the game.

This is the problem in my mind

The ref doesn't need to see a throwball - he just needs to see a handpass completed without a DEFINITE striking action

The rules are there to police the handpass, but refs/players/supporters are currently of a mindset that unless it's a definite throw, it's not a foul

The only person that can drive the change is the referees - and they currently have all the tools required to do it

On the point that the ref can't see everything - of course he can't

But don't tell me he can't see 66% of them

Nothing you have said is wrong, a clear striking action.

But I'd rather a game of hurling (that I'm watching) were there will be the odd foul missed be it a tug of shirt or throw ball or the odd over carrying for it to descend into a free taking competition

The games not broke because of this throwing the ball, if this task force come up with something that will help improve it then great, what it won't do is improve the fitness of the referee to be in all positions at all times to see a 'throw ball',

In any given game at senior level I cover between 4 and 4.5 miles that be typical distance for a club game. At intercounty they are generally covering 6 or more miles per game. Give the lines men the ability to call them, they are (at intercounty) mic'd up so not difficult to implement, that be 3 pairs of eyes

The current state of things with regard to handpassing in the game is a very mild annoyance, and it's something I'd happily live with in the knowledge that the game is all the faster for it.

The only reason the handpass has gone the way it has, is due to the swarm tackling that is now prevalent in the game - in many cases a player has no option but to almost throw the ball if they want to release it from the tackle

And players are coached to tug and release the arm, preventing a legal handpass, whilst just doing enough to avoid giving away a free themselves

My whole annoyance with this is not that there's a massive problem within the game itself, it's the GAA's approach to it.

If they want to sort it out, the rules are there to do it

But no - the GAA's response is to form another committee - another talking shop

It's the black card debate all over again

If they want it sorted (again, I'm fairly ambivalent on this) then just enforce the rules you already have