15 year old Offaly boy not allowed to hurl??

[AZOffaly]

By the way, in this case, I'm convinced Birr have engineered, or at least taken advantage of, a situation where they can use a public case to further their challenge to the rule. There's no way the parties in this were caught by surprise that the young lad was not legal for Birr.

To have another, 'unrelated', article in the same paper on the same day about their battle with the DRA about the rule was so obvious I can't believe they did it that way.

I'm not entirely sure, simply because Birr have taken a bath on bringing a similar case to this to the DRA before and could have been driven to penury if they had been hit for costs. I can't be sure, but I suspect that the mother/grandfather is fuelling this push, and that nobody in Birr committee is strong enough to stand up to a senior figure like him and say that they don't want to stand behind it. As things stand, unless there's a lot more to this than meets the eye, they're going to end up with suspensions for Chair and Secretary, and possibly a large fine and a big legal bill as well.

I'm only speculating, but one story, pushed by the mother, could easily have precipitated a call to the club, which created the parallel story, so to speak.

I thought the grandfather was dead? I'm sure I read his 'late' Grandfather was a life president of Birr?

[Lone Shark]

I'm genuinely not sure of that - it does state that in the article, but it wasn't mentioned to me, and I've had people suggest to me that Birr feel under a bit of a pressure to pursue this one. Having said that I'm going beyond the realm of hard facts for this one, since we're now into hearsay and individual views.

Imagine trying to police speeding on the roads by common sense? We all think it's a good idea, but if you get five people in a room and ask them what's the right speed limit for a dual carraigeway on a wet day, you'll get five different answers.

I don't think that's the correct analogy LS, I'd view it more as having the 40kph speed zone but the guards not hanging a guy for going 41kph. The rule is there but common sense dictates that it shouldn't be applied in such cases even though they have technically broken the law like the guy who does 70kph in a 40 zone.

An independent committee, like you suggested, is what I'd have in mind. If counties can't find an ethical committee then you should have leave to Croke Park.

I agree with you - common sense suggests 41 in a 40 is not dangerous, and 70 in a 40 is. Neither would there be much disagreement at anything over 60kph, or anything under 46kph. But then you have that whole grey area in the middle, where one "common sense" person would say that at 53kph they're not causing a danger, and another would say that they are. The problem is that most of the contentious cases come out of that grey area.

[AZOffaly]

Which is why consensus at a neutral committee would be a fair adjudicator of common sense.

[Zulu]

As AZ said, an independent committee can decide in such cases. While I'd accept it's easy to throw out 'solutions' on an internet discussion board I do believe the bottom line is the parents of a young child should have recourse to a body that can view their case a grant a transfer in certain situations. If things are so rancorous that they get to that stage I would suggest forcing the kid to play with a club he doesn't want to play with is tantamount to stoping him playing. In that situation, he loses out and both clubs lose out, not to mention the image of the GAA. Lose lose situations shouldn't happen in kids sport.

[deiseach]

As AZ said, an independent committee can decide in such cases. While I'd accept it's easy to throw out 'solutions' on an internet discussion board I do believe the bottom line is the parents of a young child should have recourse to a body that can view their case a grant a transfer in certain situations. If things are so rancorous that they get to that stage I would suggest forcing the kid to play with a club he doesn't want to play with is tantamount to stoping him playing. In that situation, he loses out and both clubs lose out, not to mention the image of the GAA. Lose lose situations shouldn't happen in kids sport.

What if the independent committee decides that the transfer shouldn't happen? I don't see the point of your proposal if the only correct decision is one that allows the child to play on their terms. If that's the goal, fine. But then you should advocate a free-for-all and spare us yet another committee.

[AZOffaly]

I was just thinking the same thing In this case (and I know we've moved on from the specific to the generic) from what I know about it, if I were on the committee, I'd be saying the young lad should be playing with Crinkill, and should always have been playing with Crinkill.

[Zulu]

As AZ said, an independent committee can decide in such cases. While I'd accept it's easy to throw out 'solutions' on an internet discussion board I do believe the bottom line is the parents of a young child should have recourse to a body that can view their case a grant a transfer in certain situations. If things are so rancorous that they get to that stage I would suggest forcing the kid to play with a club he doesn't want to play with is tantamount to stoping him playing. In that situation, he loses out and both clubs lose out, not to mention the image of the GAA. Lose lose situations shouldn't happen in kids sport.

What if the independent committee decides that the transfer shouldn't happen? I don't see the point of your proposal if the only correct decision is one that allows the child to play on their terms. If that's the goal, fine. But then you should advocate a free-for-all and spare us yet another committee.

Sorry, I didn't really put that well. Those chancing their arm because they want their kids to play with a bigger club etc. might go to those lengths as well and they shouldn't be granted a transfer. I wouldn't see, such a committee being very busy but I don't believe the GAA is best served by rigidly sticking to rules that are well meaning but don't always reflect the realities of modern Ireland such as separated parents, people from other countries, the greater movement of people between counties etc. Rarely is inflexibility a positive. Is it not sensible to have eligibility rules but also an avenue where, in exceptional circumstances, they can be over ridden in the best interests of a child?

[deiseach]

Sorry, I didn't really put that well. Those chancing their arm because they want their kids to play with a bigger club etc. might go to those lengths as well and they shouldn't be granted a transfer. I wouldn't see, such a committee being very busy but I don't believe the GAA is best served by rigidly sticking to rules that are well meaning but don't always reflect the realities of modern Ireland such as separated parents, people from other countries, the greater movement of people between counties etc. Rarely is inflexibility a positive. Is it not sensible to have eligibility rules but also an avenue where, in exceptional circumstances, they can be over ridden in the best interests of a child?

I wouldn't have any problem with that. Let's have a committee which can take into account separated parents, people from other countries and the greater movement of people between counties. But if you want the committee to take into account "the image of the GAA" or that it would be required to allow the transfer if there is a chance the child might stop playing, forget it. There's no point in having a committee because the end result would always be the same.

[Lone Shark]

Is it not sensible to have eligibility rules but also an avenue where, in exceptional circumstances, they can be over ridden in the best interests of a child?

That sounds good but don't forget here that these are parents with kids - I guarantee you that there will be an argument in absolutely every case that their child is experiencing "exceptional circumstances." Which is why again, there need to be rules and guidelines, even to give these committees a helping had. As Deiseach pointed out, fear of the child being distressed or turned away from the sport is not exceptional.

[Zulu]

I wouldn't have any problem with that. Let's have a committee which can take into account separated parents, people from other countries and the greater movement of people between counties. But if you want the committee to take into account "the image of the GAA" or that it would be required to allow the transfer if there is a chance the child might stop playing, forget it.

I may be structuring my posts poorly but I'm not advocating transfers simply on the basis of kid being upset, I was just saying that type of thing is an additional unwanted aspect to these things.

That sounds good but don't forget here that these are parents with kids - I guarantee you that there will be an argument in absolutely every case that their child is experiencing "exceptional circumstances." Which is why again, there need to be rules and guidelines, even to give these committees a helping had.

I agree and I previously listed some things that could be looked at when deciding the merits of cases.