Very little build up for the game v Carlow on Wednesday, which is no bad thing! Quite a bit of work has been put in with these lads, albeit it has been very difficult to get the group together due to the number of players involved with the seniors. It's the dream draw for ourselves, Carlow, Offaly and Kildare with the three big guns on the other side of the draw (where W'meath will be quietly confident too). The loss last year to Carlow should guard against complacency.
Colm Stapleton and Ciaran Collier will be big losses, but Laois should have enough to win this one.
Is Mark Kavanagh out? Heard he did his shoulder.
I think he will be okay to play burdizzo. The size of our forwards would be my main worry, particularly what is likely to be our half forward line. On the other hand the likes of Mullaney, Leigh Bergin and McEvoy should make up a really strong half back line.
I suppose they will have to play to their strengths so no point in pumping high balls into small forwards. This group were decent minors and with the favourable draw as TGG says they should be targeting a Leinster Final appearance.
Build up is perfect. Anyone able to hazard a guess at the team?
TheGG are Collier and Stapleton out for a long stretch or is it a short term injury? I am assuming they are injured.
Colm Stapleton is suspended.
Ciaran Collier is injured but I don't think it's anything long-term...
Lets hope we don't see a repeat of last year. Carlow have been very competitive at U21 grade last couple of years and will relish playing Laois. A lot of work has gone into this group of players the last number of years and hopefully they can seize the opportunity presented to them with such a favourable Leinster championship draw.
E Rowland
R Broderick
R Mullaney
J Kelly
D Palmer
C McEvoy
L Bergin
G Dunne
K Freeman
K Duggan (Galmoy)
J Lennon
A Corby
M Kavanagh
E Fennelly
K Bergin
Maybe something like that?
I know full well I've forgotten a few....
Joe Campion is a huge loss.
Collier, Stapo and Campion are big losses. Are any of the minors involved? Lee Cleere would prob be up to the standard. Is Liam O Connell not involved? I thought he would be pushing for a spot on the senior team this year. Stephen Bergin, Darragh Cripps are a couple more that spring to mind.
Minors are ineligible.
O' Connell is out injured I think.
As far as I know, Cripps has made himself unavailable. Kevin Bergin has gone to America.
This is the minor team that played Wexford back in 2013.
Enda Rowland (St Lazerian's Abbeyleix); Gavin Dunne (The Harps), Ryan Mullaney (Castletown Slieve Bloom), Evan Cuddy (Castletown Slieve Bloom); Dwayne Palmer (Camross), Ciaran McEvoy (Portlaoise), Colm Stapleton (Borris-in-Ossory-Kilcotton); Leigh Bergin (Shanahoe), Ronan Delahunty (The Harps), John Lennon (Rosenallis), Ciaran Collier (Camross), Aidan Corby (Clough Ballacolla); Darragh Cripps (Shanahoe), Joe Campion (Borris-in-Ossory-Kilcotton), Stephen Bergin (Clough Ballacolla)
Laois Under-21 Hurling team to play Carlow this evening has been named
1. Enda Rowland
2. Dwane Palmer
3. Conor Phelan
4. Ronan Broderick
5. Ciaran McEvoy
6 Leigh Bergin
7 Ryan Mullaney
8 Gavin Dunne
9 Sean Downey
10 Kevin Duggan
11 Stephen Bergin
12 Aidan Corby
13 Mark Kavanagh
14 John Lennon
15 Eoghan Fennelly
Strong team even with the few that are missing.
Not a bad team at all considering there's a few strong players to come back on to it. I really hope we are primed for a battle this evening. The forwards will have to work extremely hard and win a lot of the breaks as the size is not there to win possession first time. They are all good hurlers though, and we have an excellent keeper in Rowland and will have a very solid free taker in Kav/Fennelly.
Does anyone know how the duggan chap is involveld or eligable
Can't remember a match where I was more sick at the final whistle. There really is no county like our own to f**k up a golden opportunity. Too pissed off to try analyse it now.
Another depressing result for Laoise hurling. And this was the team that was supposed to get to a Leinster final?? Pah. What is wrong?
lets give Carlow a bit of credit here, they have also beaten laois last year so laois can't say they were taking by surprise tonight. great win for westmeath also leaves it wide open with Dublin and wexford to play yet.
This was the minor team that reached a minor final 3 years ago beating Wexford along the way. WTF happened this evening. How the f**k can Westmeath beat the cats because we sure as hell wouldn't. It has to be all in the psyche. There is something in the DNA. As the GG says a real opportunity falls lamely down before it even gets started. I was half afraid to look for the final result and jaysus now i know why.
As I've suspected for a while all this 'brilliant underage work' we've been supposedly doing is all bullshit,
With no proper structures and programmes in place with each and every manager doing their own thing.
A deadest to Offaly in the senior Sunday week and it's a fairly bleak year and outlook for Laois hurling
Absolutely. And you can be damn sure they'll lose to Offaly, too.
Its either coaching or mentality, or both. Id be leaning towards both.
Quote from: Thewildcat on May 25, 2016, 10:15:55 PM
lets give Carlow a bit of credit here, they have also beaten laois last year so laois can't say they were taking by surprise tonight. great win for westmeath also leaves it wide open with Dublin and wexford to play yet.
Absolutely. Just like last year they gave it absolutely everything and in James Doyle have a hurler that any county would be proud of. I had a feeling Westmeath would be quietly confident so I wasn't that shocked to hear they won.
This is absolutely atrocious for Laois hurling. Minors were terrible as were the seniors in every game except the Westmeath game so I was really hoping to see this U21 team go on a good run in this Leinster championship.
Terrible result for Laois. What was the set up like? Was Shane Corby the manager. Westmeath had a same number of u21s in the Westmeath senior set up as Laois u21s had in with Laois seniors so why cant that be used as a driving advantage like in Westmeath.
Quote from: Ogie on May 25, 2016, 10:37:01 PM
As I've suspected for a while all this 'brilliant underage work' we've been supposedly doing is all bullshit,
With no proper structures and programmes in place with each and every manager doing their own thing.
A deadest to Offaly in the senior Sunday week and it's a fairly bleak year and outlook for Laois hurling
I don't know that it's all bullshit, but we just started doing what every other hurling county bar a few were doing anyway, so it was never going to be a case of joining the elite...that just aint gonna happen with our hurling population. I've made my peace with that, but it doesn't excuse f**king away opportunities like today and this years minors. The obvious point is the absence of Joe Campion. Three years ago he was our most important player with the minors. Likewise Robbie Phelan for this years minors...everyone is entitled to do their own thing, but you are not going anywhere if you're missing your very best hurlers.
I do agree 100% with you on the manager part Ogie, there was a serious issue this evening that I'm not willing to delve into on a public forum but it certainly didn't help our cause. There was some really questionable calls with last years minors too. What is the answer though? Suitable candidates are thin on the ground.
The reaction here makes it sound like we hurled really badly, which we didn't by the way. There were some good displays and I did see a noticeable difference with the guys that are in with the seniors. The likes of John Lennon has come on in leaps and bounds for example.
But some simple things really caught us. One or two selfish decisions cost us goals, while to a man Carlow hurled for the team. When we scored the goal that was disallowed I couldn't say from where I was sitting whether it was a square ball or not, but our forwards didn't say a word to the umpire. The Carlow lads hounded the umpire as any other defence would no matter how legitimate or otherwise the goal was, but our lads just ran back to their positions! (And given that the Carlow goalie batted out the ball before the Laois forward goaled, it's hard to imagine how it was a square ball). I saw at least two occasions where a short Carlow puck out was gathered inside the 21' which should result in a throw in but this was never pointed out to the ref or linesman. Small things, but they all add up.
It really is turning into a horrible, horrible year for Laois hurling.
Seniors beaten by Kerry. U21s beaten by Carlow. Minors beaten by Offaly.
This doesnt read well for Laois Hurling really. We have been listening to development for a long time now and to be honest I dont think we are any further ahead and cannot see light at end of tunnel
Last night I watched a team that I thought looked either tired or dis-interested. I thought Lennon and Kavanagh we about the only 2 that showed any fight . Take Kavanaghs score from total and it would be very dismal reading.
A few changes were needed that were blatantly obvious but then had we anything on bench to replace.?
We can't blame hurling population this time - surely Carlow and Westmeath have a smaller pick than us.
Fair play to both counties, they, like us are putting the effort in at underage. Westmeath's performances in the senior round robin show that and they only beat Carlow narrowly. We are improving but so are other counties. My concern is that we are not getting hurlers to the same standard as other counties - notably Waterford, Clare and Limerick who have put similar efforts into underage development. We probably have the structures and support now but are still not getting the basic skill levels to the required standard. The minors for example had the best of facilities, coaches, nutritionists etc. but couldn't rise a ball of the ground at speed or put the ball over the bar under pressure. Too much fluff and not enough high intensity drills.
It is not enough that Laois improve, we have to improve more than the other counties if we want to rise up the pecking order.
Quote from: TheGreatGame on May 26, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
But some simple things really caught us. One or two selfish decisions cost us goals, while to a man Carlow hurled for the team. When we scored the goal that was disallowed I couldn't say from where I was sitting whether it was a square ball or not, but our forwards didn't say a word to the umpire. The Carlow lads hounded the umpire as any other defence would no matter how legitimate or otherwise the goal was, but our lads just ran back to their positions! (And given that the Carlow goalie batted out the ball before the Laois forward goaled, it's hard to imagine how it was a square ball). I saw at least two occasions where a short Carlow puck out was gathered inside the 21' which should result in a throw in but this was never pointed out to the ref or linesman. Small things, but they all add up..
I think this is very important. These are, indeed small details but these small details are the difference between winning close games and losing them. When a team starts to win a few close games, these small things start coming more automatically. I've been looking at Laois a long time now (most in football) and I can never understand why we can't get basic things right.
Blue and White what great structures & programmes are in place? What's the current & future plan for Laois hurling? We were blowing and patting ourselves on the back about this great setanta programme,
What had that yielded? ? One Leinster final appearance and no more,
Westmeath are putting in some underage work but Carlow are not, for f**k sake they had 17 togged out for their senior game last week!!!
Look at the poor uptake of coaching courses in the clubs around Laois, everyone wants to do it their own way instead of everyone working off the same blueprint from u6's to senior
I do know & understand that this grade and group didn't get together As much as liked because of so many on the senior panel, but that's the same for every team at u21.
And one more point, why did Joe campion walk away from the county set up, senior & 21, a huge loss to both panels who did appear to be one of the best & committed emerging talents we had,
Quote from: Ogie on May 26, 2016, 11:52:41 AM
Blue and White what great structures & programmes are in place? What's the current & future plan for Laois hurling?
? Never mentioned anything about great structures and programmes, just said that there is a level of effort. There is definitely more going on with development squads etc. but I am in complete agreement that it is not good enough. I think that the coaching in the clubs is inadequate and focused on winning local battles rather than developing top class hurlers. Pat Critchley said it last year after watching his minor team lose that he needed to go back down the years to get the skill levels right much earlier. I think if there was more effort and structure around developing lads from U10 to U14 we would get the right level of player going in to U15, U16 and minor level squads. And it should be all about skills development with matches and physical development secondary. We have NEVER got this right over the years. One or two lads emerge who will keep the county team ticking over but the average ability levels of hurlers especially when it comes to intense fast hurling is not acceptable. Because of our small pick we need an exceptional underage programme to be competitive.
Just noticed this result from last night in the Celtic challenge U-15 competition:
Laois 0-11 2-17 North Wexford
How an U-15 county team can be beaten by 13 points in a short game by half of a county speaks volumes.
Quote from: TheGreatGame on May 26, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
Quote from: Ogie on May 25, 2016, 10:37:01 PM
As I've suspected for a while all this 'brilliant underage work' we've been supposedly doing is all bullshit,
With no proper structures and programmes in place with each and every manager doing their own thing.
A deadest to Offaly in the senior Sunday week and it's a fairly bleak year and outlook for Laois hurling
I don't know that it's all bullshit, but we just started doing what every other hurling county bar a few were doing anyway, so it was never going to be a case of joining the elite...that just aint gonna happen with our hurling population. I've made my peace with that, but it doesn't excuse f**king away opportunities like today and this years minors. The obvious point is the absence of Joe Campion. Three years ago he was our most important player with the minors. Likewise Robbie Phelan for this years minors...everyone is entitled to do their own thing, but you are not going anywhere if you're missing your very best hurlers.
I do agree 100% with you on the manager part Ogie, there was a serious issue this evening that I'm not willing to delve into on a public forum but it certainly didn't help our cause. There was some really questionable calls with last years minors too. What is the answer though? Suitable candidates are thin on the ground.
The reaction here makes it sound like we hurled really badly, which we didn't by the way. There were some good displays and I did see a noticeable difference with the guys that are in with the seniors. The likes of John Lennon has come on in leaps and bounds for example.
But some simple things really caught us. One or two selfish decisions cost us goals, while to a man Carlow hurled for the team. When we scored the goal that was disallowed I couldn't say from where I was sitting whether it was a square ball or not, but our forwards didn't say a word to the umpire. The Carlow lads hounded the umpire as any other defence would no matter how legitimate or otherwise the goal was, but our lads just ran back to their positions! (And given that the Carlow goalie batted out the ball before the Laois forward goaled, it's hard to imagine how it was a square ball). I saw at least two occasions where a short Carlow puck out was gathered inside the 21' which should result in a throw in but this was never pointed out to the ref or linesman. Small things, but they all add up.
It really is turning into a horrible, horrible year for Laois hurling.
It's not a foul to take possession inside the 21. You just have to be 20m away when the ball is pucked out.
Quote from: Ogie on May 26, 2016, 11:52:41 AM
And one more point, why did Joe campion walk away from the county set up, senior & 21, a huge loss to both panels who did appear to be one of the best & committed emerging talents we had,
Wasn't it something to do w/ the CB not changing a Borris U/21 fixture?
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on May 26, 2016, 12:39:42 PM
Just noticed this result from last night in the Celtic challenge U-15 competition:
Laois 0-11 2-17 North Wexford
How an U-15 county team can be beaten by 13 points in a short game by half of a county speaks volumes.
These aren't short games, full 60 minutes. I went over to this and Laois were short as many players as they had for different reasons. Wexford had 11 starters from the team that did so well in the Arrabawn. Wexford were by far the better team but scored 1-3 in the last 3 minutes to give the scoreline an unflattering look.
Quote from: Zooming around on May 26, 2016, 01:04:12 PM
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on May 26, 2016, 12:39:42 PM
Just noticed this result from last night in the Celtic challenge U-15 competition:
Laois 0-11 2-17 North Wexford
How an U-15 county team can be beaten by 13 points in a short game by half of a county speaks volumes.
These aren't short games, full 60 minutes. I went over to this and Laois were short as many players as they had for different reasons. Wexford had 11 starters from the team that did so well in the Arrabawn. Wexford were by far the better team but scored 1-3 in the last 3 minutes to give the scoreline an unflattering look.
State exams around corner has to be acknowledged for loss of lads too.
Quote from: Helix on May 26, 2016, 01:09:05 PM
Quote from: Zooming around on May 26, 2016, 01:04:12 PM
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on May 26, 2016, 12:39:42 PM
Just noticed this result from last night in the Celtic challenge U-15 competition:
Laois 0-11 2-17 North Wexford
How an U-15 county team can be beaten by 13 points in a short game by half of a county speaks volumes.
These aren't short games, full 60 minutes. I went over to this and Laois were short as many players as they had for different reasons. Wexford had 11 starters from the team that did so well in the Arrabawn. Wexford were by far the better team but scored 1-3 in the last 3 minutes to give the scoreline an unflattering look.
State exams around corner has to be acknowledged for loss of lads too.
Was waiting for this type of response. How is it always that Laois have 'many missing'? The game was in Rathdowney, not New Ross.
Is there no junior cert in North Wexford? Fact remains that, regardless of excuses, we continue to get hammered at these levels which translates directly to minor, U21 and senior. Yet we seem surprised. It isn't a coincidence that North Wexford could get it together and find enough lads to give us a good beating and we couldn't. Same old story.
If only the few lads that we were missing were there then it would of been a different story - it never is.
Quote from: Zooming around on May 26, 2016, 12:58:46 PM
Quote from: TheGreatGame on May 26, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
Quote from: Ogie on May 25, 2016, 10:37:01 PM
As I've suspected for a while all this 'brilliant underage work' we've been supposedly doing is all bullshit,
With no proper structures and programmes in place with each and every manager doing their own thing.
A deadest to Offaly in the senior Sunday week and it's a fairly bleak year and outlook for Laois hurling
I don't know that it's all bullshit, but we just started doing what every other hurling county bar a few were doing anyway, so it was never going to be a case of joining the elite...that just aint gonna happen with our hurling population. I've made my peace with that, but it doesn't excuse f**king away opportunities like today and this years minors. The obvious point is the absence of Joe Campion. Three years ago he was our most important player with the minors. Likewise Robbie Phelan for this years minors...everyone is entitled to do their own thing, but you are not going anywhere if you're missing your very best hurlers.
I do agree 100% with you on the manager part Ogie, there was a serious issue this evening that I'm not willing to delve into on a public forum but it certainly didn't help our cause. There was some really questionable calls with last years minors too. What is the answer though? Suitable candidates are thin on the ground.
The reaction here makes it sound like we hurled really badly, which we didn't by the way. There were some good displays and I did see a noticeable difference with the guys that are in with the seniors. The likes of John Lennon has come on in leaps and bounds for example.
But some simple things really caught us. One or two selfish decisions cost us goals, while to a man Carlow hurled for the team. When we scored the goal that was disallowed I couldn't say from where I was sitting whether it was a square ball or not, but our forwards didn't say a word to the umpire. The Carlow lads hounded the umpire as any other defence would no matter how legitimate or otherwise the goal was, but our lads just ran back to their positions! (And given that the Carlow goalie batted out the ball before the Laois forward goaled, it's hard to imagine how it was a square ball). I saw at least two occasions where a short Carlow puck out was gathered inside the 21' which should result in a throw in but this was never pointed out to the ref or linesman. Small things, but they all add up.
It really is turning into a horrible, horrible year for Laois hurling.
It's not a foul to take possession inside the 21. You just have to be 20m away when the ball is pucked out.
You have to be outside the 21 when a puck out is taken, that's what refs always tell me anyway!
We always seem to be making excuses at every level. Injuries, exams, holidays etc but the bottom line is that we dont seem to have progressed much in the last few years.
At club level underage it is hard to get trainers involved and usually ends up with parents involved and this is where our 1st problem is. Its great to see their involvement but in reality what experience do a lot of these have.
On a number of occasions I have seen involvement from parents to have never hurled themselves or had any interest in game until their little darling started , which I dont think really helps the underage much. No matter how much you try to whittle it out there will usually be favouritism
At county level we seem to put too much into the fitness side of it and the skill and cleverness of game if suffering IMO. Lads are tired looking during games and I think the hunger for a game of hurling is lacking. Too much maybe?
One thing that is consistent across Laois teams is lack of game plan. Laois always hurl at every grade with a "panicked" look about them because the players are not tactically aware on the field. This is across ALL teams.
Another point of note - Whenever Laois hurl a 14-man team, the other team always manages to galvanise and beat the 15-man Laois, however when we are reduced to 14-men we always loose... WHY?
What f**king tactics are these hurlers being taught? There is no point in running like dogs in training and doing conveyor-belt drills if you're gonna run around like a headless chicken on the field hitting and hoping.
Quote from: G@@ on May 26, 2016, 03:28:52 PM
One thing that is consistent across Laois teams is lack of game plan. Laois always hurl at every grade with a "panicked" look about them because the players are not tactically aware on the field. This is across ALL teams.
Another point of note - Whenever Laois hurl a 14-man team, the other team always manages to galvanise and beat the 15-man Laois, however when we are reduced to 14-men we always loose... WHY?
What f**king tactics are these hurlers being taught? There is no point in running like dogs in training and doing conveyor-belt drills if you're gonna run around like a headless chicken on the field hitting and hoping.
I dont think we have any real tactics TBH. In all our fitness training we cant even out run teams and our skill level is way off the mark.
The mentality of a lot of players is get the ball and just hit as far up field as possible regardless if anyone there to get it!
I see in our club the amount of lads that are so one sided its unbelievable and I cant understand why that isnt sorted an underage .
This is the time to sort the basics of the game
2 very important comments made above:
"Look at the poor uptake of coaching courses in the clubs around Laois"
"At club level underage it is hard to get trainers involved and usually ends up with parents involved and this is where our 1st problem is"
people are afraid to take on these jobs because they think they wont be able for it in a lot of cases. but with a bit of persuasion and loads of support from club and county board including the coaching courses and club coaching officer, every club should be able to get more people on board. then we need to get all coaches, especially underage, using roughly the same guidelines.
at the start of every year, each club need to send in a list of coaches they have put in place for each grade. the county board should then check that all these people have at least the foundation level coaching course completed, if they haven't then the club is notified these people must attend the foundation courses, which will be held on the following dates.....
the county board then need to get the development officers to create a plan for each coach to follow depending on the age group they are with.
the club coaching officer should have at least Level 1 coaching course done and he must oversee that the coaches within the club are following the plan they were given.
it would be a start anyway. we must coach the coaches correctly or we are at nothing.
as for our U21s and seniors, as i said earlier, the coaching has to be wrong for these results to be coming in the way they are. you watch the next championship match between the 'big' teams, watch how they recycle the ball, how they use teamwork and movement to keep ball and not give away possession cheaply, how they create goal chances when they need to be created. all that on top of coaching the basics properly and with speed, and getting their heads in the right place.
Agree totally with above.
Hard to see clubs giving that much commitment but in reality this is what needs to be done
Our Minors U21s and Seniors dont just wake up and become hurlers. It has to be started at underage and worked the whole way up along.
I have watched some underage training and am amazed at the stupid things that are being done.
Hurl, ball and a wall would be a good place to start with young lads and work from both sides. Very basic but important skill.
Running laps around a field for 20 mins/ half hour is no good for older lads. More matches would be of benefit to them
Also as long as county lads are not allowed to hurl with their clubs we are wasting our time ( most especially bench/extended panel).
Match practice better than 5 laps of field any day
Excellent points above from many regarding coaching education and whats required:
One of the big things I've found over the years from coaching at juvenile level in Laois is the over reliance of Setanta programme for our players. My point is around clubs (not all clubs) not having appropriate coaching structures/education and clubs using the Setanta programme as a means to bring player up to scratch and compensate for inadequate training at club level.
If clubs were delivering a higher standard player through appropriate training, the Setanta would up its standards and potentially a more elite bunch would appear.
Good posts lads but you'd swear there were no decent hurlers in Laois. We do have some very good hurlers and the 15 last night were good enough skillwise to beat Carlow. What's needed is emphasis on teamwork and headwork.
The attitude has to change that we are good enough. The one thing about Cheddar is that he's always telling his teams they are good enough and is forever trying to drill that home. We need to have lads consistantly showing the desire and will to win instead of the odd time.
Regarding the skills of the game the one place where I feel we fall down particularly at senior level is primary possession. There's very few aside from Willie Hyland who can take a ball from the sky. Watch Clare v Waterford next week and count how many times it's done by players all over the pitch. It's almost a rarity with Laois!
There was a 'Player Pathway' launched about two months ago for bringing players from U6 upwards, a good booklet, but it didn't get much publicity or uptake,
What Clubs will implement it?
Again all good points above, it's my opinion that each club & county should have a plan/programme designed by Croke Park/Leinster council/Lester Ryan/Peter Casey/ Paudie Butler & the likes that no matter who is appointed over underage teams this A,B,C or XYZ must be followed and then assessed,
Then the proud daddies and inexperienced mammies or daddies have an exact and correct programme to follow
And I agree wholeheartedly with the line above that we are always making f***** excuses, at club & county level, everything else seems to come first
Quote from: Ogie on May 26, 2016, 06:01:31 PM
There was a 'Player Pathway' launched about two months ago for bringing players from U6 upwards, a good booklet, but it didn't get much publicity or uptake,
What Clubs will implement it?
Again all good points above, it's my opinion that each club & county should have a plan/programme designed by Croke Park/Leinster council/Lester Ryan/Peter Casey/ Paudie Butler & the likes that no matter who is appointed over underage teams this A,B,C or XYZ must be followed and then assessed,
Then the proud daddies and inexperienced mammies or daddies have an exact and correct programme to follow
And I agree wholeheartedly with the line above that we are always making f***** excuses, at club & county level, everything else seems to come first
Where's that player pathway available online?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: Ogie on May 26, 2016, 06:01:31 PM
There was a 'Player Pathway' launched about two months ago for bringing players from U6 upwards, a good booklet, but it didn't get much publicity or uptake,
What Clubs will implement it?
Again all good points above, it's my opinion that each club & county should have a plan/programme designed by Croke Park/Leinster council/Lester Ryan/Peter Casey/ Paudie Butler & the likes that no matter who is appointed over underage teams this A,B,C or XYZ must be followed and then assessed,
Then the proud daddies and inexperienced mammies or daddies have an exact and correct programme to follow
And I agree wholeheartedly with the line above that we are always making f***** excuses, at club & county level, everything else seems to come first
Where's that player pathway available online?
You can buy it here...
http://www.dublingaagamesdevelopment.ie/dgaa-shop/3487
Wasn't at the game but a couple of points;
1) There is no way Carlow could have been that strong considering the state their Senior panel has been in the last few weeks.
2) I don't believe the management team were adequate. Have neither the experience or management skills to operate at this level.
3) People should stop going crazy with the "nothing is working" line every time we suffer a set back.
4) The appointment of minor & U21 managers needs to be looked at seriously. It's turning into a joke. Last man to withdraw gets it almost.
5) Somebody suggested that Joe Campion wasn't playing because an U21 club game wasn't changed last Sept/Oct. He is more than entitled not to put himself forward to play for Laois, but if that is the actual reason he isn't playing, it's farcical.
What have laois done in hurling lately to think that we should beat Carlow or be outraged that we didn't ?
Quote from: Gmac on May 26, 2016, 11:44:08 PM
What have laois done in hurling lately to think that we should beat Carlow or be outraged that we didn't ?
That is silly, Laois have been ahead of Carlow at Minor, U21 & Senior for probably 28 of the last 30 years.
Quote from: Keyser Söze on May 26, 2016, 11:47:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 26, 2016, 11:44:08 PM
What have laois done in hurling lately to think that we should beat Carlow or be outraged that we didn't ?
That is silly, Laois have been ahead of Carlow at Minor, U21 & Senior for probably 28 of the last 30 years.
we have been but they lost to Carlow last year too so are Carlow better at this grade or did laois under estimate them or are Carlow better?it's the same thing with the footballers losing to division 4 teams in the championship one year and then lads come on here and say we should get to the all Ireland 1/4 finals the next year . Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results . Time for Laois to go and hire a full time person to run the gaa in the county from top to bottom . Fundraise to pay for it or stay where we are going nowhere
Quote from: Junior Ex Laoistalk on May 26, 2016, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: Ogie on May 26, 2016, 06:01:31 PM
There was a 'Player Pathway' launched about two months ago for bringing players from U6 upwards, a good booklet, but it didn't get much publicity or uptake,
What Clubs will implement it?
Again all good points above, it's my opinion that each club & county should have a plan/programme designed by Croke Park/Leinster council/Lester Ryan/Peter Casey/ Paudie Butler & the likes that no matter who is appointed over underage teams this A,B,C or XYZ must be followed and then assessed,
Then the proud daddies and inexperienced mammies or daddies have an exact and correct programme to follow
And I agree wholeheartedly with the line above that we are always making f***** excuses, at club & county level, everything else seems to come first
Where's that player pathway available online?
You can buy it here...
http://www.dublingaagamesdevelopment.ie/dgaa-shop/3487
That's not the Laois one. Laois one not available online, hard copies only
Quote from: redsetanta on May 26, 2016, 05:36:11 PM
Good posts lads but you'd swear there were no decent hurlers in Laois. We do have some very good hurlers and the 15 last night were good enough skillwise to beat Carlow. What's needed is emphasis on teamwork and headwork.
The attitude has to change that we are good enough. The one thing about Cheddar is that he's always telling his teams they are good enough and is forever trying to drill that home. We need to have lads consistantly showing the desire and will to win instead of the odd time.
Regarding the skills of the game the one place where I feel we fall down particularly at senior level is primary possession. There's very few aside from Willie Hyland who can take a ball from the sky. Watch Clare v Waterford next week and count how many times it's done by players all over the pitch. It's almost a rarity with Laois!
To be fair I dont think anyone here is saying we have bad hurlers, and I agree with you about teamwork and headwork.
Its like we have been knocked so much that any little win or improvement is considered wonderful when in fact we should be aiming a lot higher and have the belief that we can do it
We have the hurlers but I firmly believe that the coaching is our biggest problem
Take all the props off the field and get back to working with the hurl and ball
Who are the props?! Leix are noticeably smaller than a lot of inter-county teams. I think you need a bit of size and physicality just to execute the skills under pressure. A team of skilful midgets won't win you much - though I do acknowledge there's always room for one or two...
Quote from: burdizzo on May 27, 2016, 10:21:09 AM
Who are the props?! Leix are noticeably smaller than a lot of inter-county teams. I think you need a bit of size and physicality just to execute the skills under pressure. A team of skilful midgets won't win you much - though I do acknowledge there's always room for one or two...
Not who ..What
I was watching the seniors training in Ballinakill one morning and I swear the amount of gear being brought out was laughable.
Ladders, cones, tackle bags, waistcoats with weights inserted :-\
I would agree that we have an issue with size but to be fair I think its more than size is the problem
DJ Carey wasnt exactly a giant
Quote from: Keyser Söze on May 26, 2016, 11:15:00 PM
Wasn't at the game but a couple of points;
1) There is no way Carlow could have been that strong considering the state their Senior panel has been in the last few weeks.
2) I don't believe the management team were adequate. Have neither the experience or management skills to operate at this level.
3) People should stop going crazy with the "nothing is working" line every time we suffer a set back.
4) The appointment of minor & U21 managers needs to be looked at seriously. It's turning into a joke. Last man to withdraw gets it almost.
5) Somebody suggested that Joe Campion wasn't playing because an U21 club game wasn't changed last Sept/Oct. He is more than entitled not to put himself forward to play for Laois, but if that is the actual reason he isn't playing, it's farcical.
Agree with a lot of that. But reading over the last few pages Carlow are probably not getting the credit they deserve. I don't believe any county left in the Leinster u21 will have a better hurler than James Doyle bar maybe Conor Mac of Wexford. He was outstanding Wednesday night, and Carlow had plenty of other good hurlers too. I firmly believe we did have the better team and our underage structures, whatever flaws they may have, produced a group of hurlers that were plenty good enough to win. That's why it's so frustrating. When our seniors were a total shambles a few years back and got hammered by Dublin we went out three days later and beat their u21's. W'meaths win over Kk also shows there are no soft games in this grade, and a team must perform to get a win.
The management team put in a lot of work here, but a player was left on for ~ 45 mins when he should have been gone after probably 15. Anyone can have a bad day, but this cost us big time.
Redsetanta mentioned playing as a team, underage structures aren't responsible for a player not off loading a pass to a player through on goal. That's just selfish play, and it cost us big time again.
Mountains should have been moved to get Joe Campion on board. People don't want to hear excuses but we would have won that game if we had Joe, simple as. After the effort he has put in over the last 5 and more years with Laois I can understand his point of view, but there was no winner in this scenario except for Carlow.
As I said in my last post, the positive I took from the game is the likes of Ryan Mullaney, Mark Kav and John Lennon are coming on in leaps and bounds, but that is scant consolation when a Leinster final opportunity is gone up in smoke.
Quote from: TheGreatGame on May 27, 2016, 10:53:42 AM
Redsetanta mentioned playing as a team, underage structures aren't responsible for a player not off loading a pass to a player through on goal. That's just selfish play, and it cost us big time again.
Not to be overly pedantic but it could be argued that coaching actually has a big role in developing instinctive decision making and teamwork.
I don't think anyone here is being disrespectful to Carlow. They beat us fair and square and had some lovely hurlers. The frustration is that we are not improving
relative to other counties. We are not moving up the food chain. I believe we are moving forward but so is everyone else and it is frustrating that we are not boxing clever and getting ahead of the competition.
The fact that Carlow beat us last year in O'Moore Park tells you that Carlow couldn't be taken lightly however given how the minor team did 3 years ago and knowing the threat Carlow posed it was doubly frustrating to lose. Also, it's a game that we had enough chances to win. Since that win over Dublin in 2012 that The GG mentioned we have not won a game in this competition. Beaten by Offaly in 13, Dublin in 2014 and Carlow last year.
It would probably suit Carlow a lot more to simply concentrate on hurling, given their geography and population. Whatever we have to complain about, their's was only 55,000 in 2011. 27,000 less than ours.
They should pay as much heed to football as Kilkenny and become a hurling county, tucked in between Wexford and Kilkenny.
the usual guff after a pathetic defeat.
facts are this under 21 age group, 3 years ago hammered offaly by 15 points and chinned a decent wexford team in the semi final and gave commendable displays against Kilkenny and galway.
the truth is
1-
Carlow are not a good team, they would not get within 12 points of any team in munster and save for doyle the rest are very ordinary. if you cannot beat Carlow at under 21 then you are rock bottom.
2-
the only underage teams that have given hope for the future are those under the care of pat critchley....when you take him out of the picture, the truth is there is no other coach in the county up to intercounty standard and I include cheddar in that statement.
3-
this under 21 team represented our best chance as a county of contesting a provincial final at any grade hurling or football in 2016, and from what I hear the preparations were poor.
4
I was unimpressed by managements of minor and under 21 hurling squads in 2016....perhaps it is time to fish further afield for a coach to help bring these panels up to intercounty standard......and before someone launches on a tirade about keeping it in-house, very few senior clubs have laois managers, and from what I have seen in the past 2 years, none of the club minor or under 21 teams managers/coaches have the skill set and knowledge to be positioned to take an inter county squad.
5
should the senior hurlers lose to offaly and possibly get a season ending hammering thereafter by a munster county then the hurling project will have hit a very troublesome bump in the road, as cheddar might say. cheddar will leave and I have zero confidence in the county executive when it comes to appointments. following lillis in the football, one would fear we may get an uninspiring and negative choice akin to McCarthy or Fennelly for the hurling, and that would be a death knell and laying a path to the Christy Ring.
If an outside man is needed, then we go all out, do whatever we have to, to get really good quality coaches over the minor, u21 and Senior teams, and put decent Laois coaches in working beside them so they can learn. Then they can take the reigns when ready and take in other decent Laois Coaches as apprentices if you like.
I do like a good rant about bad coaching etc but at the end of the day, its not an easy job. Lads in these jobs need support and they need to learn their trade. Some appointments would raise an eyebrow regarding experience etc.
Quote from: Gmac on May 27, 2016, 12:17:04 AMTime for Laois to go and hire a full time person to run the gaa in the county from top to bottom . Fundraise to pay for it or stay where we are going nowhere
We already have one of them!
Fairly worrying line of form from Carlow v Offaly tonight.
Instead of putting our foot on Offalys neck this year and putting them back years we have done more for them than anyone else in getting their hurling back in a positive position, Seniors falling badly to them and our 21's being so poor that Offaly have sailed into a Leinster final
As I've said previously real real work wanted at underage in our county
We beat them 4 years in a row at minor level, often by large margins. We should also have beaten them this year by the way.
It does seem that we stop our player development post minor wheras they have built a panel of future senior players. As always, questions have to be asked about how smart our underage setups are.
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on June 24, 2016, 08:10:54 AM
We beat them 4 years in a row at minor level, often by large margins. We should also have beaten them this year by the way.
As Ogie said this was an excellent opportunity to "put them f**kers back on their arses for another ten years". Could have been beaten at Senior and should have been beaten at Minor & U21.
Offaly will most likely give Wexford a good game in the qualifiers, and a win is not beyond them. Had a decent league (bar Kerry).
We should have been cementing our place above them in the food chain this year. It has turned out to be an awful year for Laois hurling.
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on June 24, 2016, 08:10:54 AM
As always, questions have to be asked about how smart our underage setups are.
That question should always be asked
i think if laois put more efford into beating other teams rather than just been up for the offaly games they would be better off. they have won was it just one game since last years win over offaly league play off again westmeath. as for putting offaly back on their arse for the next 10 years. one win in 42 years in championship hurling and offaly were way ahead of laois this year, maybe and a big maybe if offaly win the under 21 again Dublin the good times might be on the way back laois miight learn something from it ;)
Quote from: Thewildcat on June 24, 2016, 09:37:42 PM
i think if laois put more efford into beating other teams rather than just been up for the offaly games they would be better off. they have won was it just one game since last years win over offaly league play off again westmeath. as for putting offaly back on their arse for the next 10 years. one win in 42 years in championship hurling and offaly were way ahead of laois this year, maybe and a big maybe if offaly win the under 21 again Dublin the good times might be on the way back laois miight learn something from it ;)
You totally miss the point.
Laois happened to be drawn against Offaly in important championship games at Minor, U21 & Senior level this year. All games that Laois could and in my opinion should have won.
Offaly have been the team above Laois in the overall Leinster pecking order for most of the last 50 years. Of course we would be measuring ourselves against Offaly.