American Sports Thread

[stew]

Cmon, Stew, things have turned around in Cleveland.  The Indians have made it to the World Series, and the Cavs have won the title and played in the final last year.  The cry of "Next Year" is history.  In Cleveland, next year is now.

I love Cleveland as a sporting city, the Browns fans are unreal, the problem Orais is the exact reason I lit a fire under you with the Caveland comment, you lot see to be fine with settng records and almost winning titles, that is a losing mentality, you would never get that in Green Bay or Boston.

[Oraisteach]

Stew, I think you're reflecting an essentially American attitude about competition, the idea that teams are only great if they win championships.  I have coached track and field, soccer and quiz bowl at the high school level.  In quiz bowl, for example, there are hundreds of schools that compete in the state championship, but only one school wins that state title.  Does that mean that the hundreds of non-winners are failures? I don't think so.  For example, I coached two teams that won the state championship, but I also coached a few others that were just as good, won all but one of their matches, but were terrific teams.  The Indians are like that.  They're in with a good shot to win the title, but if they come up short, though disappointing, it doesn't mean they're not a great team.  I certainly respect the Packers' achievement, but think a lot less of the Red Sox who can essentially buy a championship.  The Indians' performance is particularly remarkable given that we're a small-market team.

Update: Indians beat the Royals 3-2 in extra innings.  22 straight!

[AZOffaly]

Hang on. For such a paragon of sports, Green Bay has won how many superbowls since Bart Starr? And what else have they won that makes them so great? The Bucks? The Brewers? University of Wisconsin? You said yourself that the Packers are hugely underperforming given their talent.

Plus the Browns had a great draft with Kevin Costner as GM!

[stew]

Hang on. For such a paragon of sports, Green Bay has won how many superbowls since Bart Starr? And what else have they won that makes them so great? The Bucks? The Brewers? University of Wisconsin? You said yourself that the Packers are hugely underperforming given their talent.

Plus the Browns had a great draft with Kevin Costner as GM!

Green Bay is a city, not a state, Green Bay is easily the smallest city ever in the States to have a major sporting entity, they call it Titletown USA, and they call it that for a reason, the GBP have won more world championships than any other franchise in football history.

The Bucks are from Milwaukee as are the Brewers, the Badgers are Madison based, none of those places are within a hundred miles of Green Bay, to answer your question about the Packers and superbowls post Starr, they won it in 96 with Favre and with Rodgers in the noughties, notice I did not speak to their near misses? Coming second means nothing in Green Bay, in Cleveland they seem to take pride in it, that is the difference.

[AZOffaly]

I know Green Bay is a city FFS. Cleveland is also a city. A city that supports 3 of the 4 major sports. I'm aware that the Packers are the only show in town there, really, but are you in a position to throw insults at poor Cleveland when they are competitive (at least) in 2 of the major sports?

Talk of Green Bay as 'title town' is vastly overrated. San Francisco, Dallas, Pittsburgh and New England have won more Superbowls than the Pack. And if you are going back to the pre-merger days to add up to your 9, then you have to give the Cardinals credit for their one too

I can't believe you thought you had to explain the geography of Wisconsin to me, I'm familiar with the sports teams up there, but to give a like comparison with Cleveland I thought at least I'd balance it up by saying ye'd support the Wisconsin teams there.

Green Bay is not Titletown, no more than Dallas is America's Team. And as a sports hub, Cleveland is doing quite well at the moment.

[stew]

I know Green Bay is a city FFS. Cleveland is also a city. A city that supports 3 of the 4 major sports. I'm aware that the Packers are the only show in town there, really, but are you in a position to throw insults at poor Cleveland when they are competitive (at least) in 2 of the major sports?

Talk of Green Bay as 'title town' is vastly overrated. San Francisco, Dallas, Pittsburgh and New England have won more Superbowls than the Pack. And if you are going back to the pre-merger days to add up to your 9, then you have to give the Cardinals credit for their one too

I can't believe you thought you had to explain the geography of Wisconsin to me, I'm familiar with the sports teams up there, but to give a like comparison with Cleveland I thought at least I'd balance it up by saying ye'd support the Wisconsin teams there.

Green Bay is not Titletown, no more than Dallas is America's Team. And as a sports hub, Cleveland is doing quite well at the moment.

Eh, I did not think I had to explain the layout of the State to you, others read this thread and don't know, it was to make things easier for them.

I lived in New England well before I moved to Green Bay, I love the Red Sox, Bruins and Celtics, I like the Pats as well but was disgusted at the hoodies cheating over the years, I prefer the packers now simply because the fans are brilliant and my best mate kept taking me to games and my kid is a diehard fan who I have bought over 60 tickets for.

Where do you get nine titles from???

[stew]

13 Titles in Titletown, not 9 AZ.
They won their first three by league standing (1929, 1930 and 1931), and 10 since the NFL's playoff system was established in 1933 (1936, 1939, 1944, 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1996 and 2010).
Green Bay also is the only NFL team to win three straight titles, having done it twice (1929-30-31 and 1965-66-67).
In addition, the Packers won the first two Super Bowls (over Kansas City in 1966, 35-10, and over Oakland in 1967, 33-14), as well as two more recently (over New England in 1996, 35-21, and over Pittsburgh in 2010, 31-25).
Since the league implemented a playoff system in 1933, the Packers have played in the NFL's deciding game 13 times (10 NFL title appearances from 1936-67, three Super Bowls after the 1970 merger). Only the Giants (19) have played for more titles.

[AZOffaly]

No idea where I got that, it was stuck in my head for some reason.

[AZOffaly]

13 Titles in Titletown, not 9 AZ.
They won their first three by league standing (1929, 1930 and 1931), and 10 since the NFL's playoff system was established in 1933 (1936, 1939, 1944, 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1996 and 2010).
Green Bay also is the only NFL team to win three straight titles, having done it twice (1929-30-31 and 1965-66-67).
In addition, the Packers won the first two Super Bowls (over Kansas City in 1966, 35-10, and over Oakland in 1967, 33-14), as well as two more recently (over New England in 1996, 35-21, and over Pittsburgh in 2010, 31-25).
Since the league implemented a playoff system in 1933, the Packers have played in the NFL's deciding game 13 times (10 NFL title appearances from 1936-67, three Super Bowls after the 1970 merger). Only the Giants (19) have played for more titles.

I thought you weren't counting 'nearly'

[stew]

13 Titles in Titletown, not 9 AZ.
They won their first three by league standing (1929, 1930 and 1931), and 10 since the NFL's playoff system was established in 1933 (1936, 1939, 1944, 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1996 and 2010).
Green Bay also is the only NFL team to win three straight titles, having done it twice (1929-30-31 and 1965-66-67).
In addition, the Packers won the first two Super Bowls (over Kansas City in 1966, 35-10, and over Oakland in 1967, 33-14), as well as two more recently (over New England in 1996, 35-21, and over Pittsburgh in 2010, 31-25).

I don't, I cut and pasted that to show yu just why Green Bay is Titletown USA, 13 titles is some haul.

Since the league implemented a playoff system in 1933, the Packers have played in the NFL's deciding game 13 times (10 NFL title appearances from 1936-67, three Super Bowls after the 1970 merger). Only the Giants (19) have played for more titles.

I thought you weren't counting 'nearly'

[stew]

Stew, I think you're reflecting an essentially American attitude about competition, the idea that teams are only great if they win championships.  I have coached track and field, soccer and quiz bowl at the high school level.  In quiz bowl, for example, there are hundreds of schools that compete in the state championship, but only one school wins that state title.  Does that mean that the hundreds of non-winners are failures? I don't think so.  For example, I coached two teams that won the state championship, but I also coached a few others that were just as good, won all but one of their matches, but were terrific teams.  The Indians are like that.  They're in with a good shot to win the title, but if they come up short, though disappointing, it doesn't mean they're not a great team.  I certainly respect the Packers' achievement, but think a lot less of the Red Sox who can essentially buy a championship.  The Indians' performance is particularly remarkable given that we're a small-market team.

Update: Indians beat the Royals 3-2 in extra innings.  22 straight!

There is no smaller market than Green Bay, the Indians are a tremendous story.

I do not consider your teams that did not win it all losers, my boys team won three State premier titles on the spin with me at the helm for the first two, that said we didn't even win State 2, we finished second and the same happened in State 1, not once did I even consider these lads failures, nor any kid who took the time to play sports no matter their teams record.

Now professional sports is completely different, the only acceptable season in Green Bay is a superbowl winning one, same for the Pats, not so much for Cleveland or the Bears and teams of that calibre.

[heganboy]

Lads, it's not the Calibre of the team, it's the expectations of the fans that determine what an acceptable season is or is not

[magpie seanie]

No idea where I got that, it was stuck in my head for some reason.

Bears have 9.

[magpie seanie]

Stew - aren't you lucky that you have lived in the two greatest sports cities in the USA? 

The Packers have a huge advantage in being owned by the fans and the only franchise that can be. There's no owners hiving off profits. Also - no other big sports to compete with in their city is a help too so even though it's a small city by US standards they're in a good position.

[Oraisteach]

Stew, I have to disagree with you about the Browns and Cleveland's attitude to sports.  You say that the Browns are a disgrace (which is true) and have been since their inception, which is decidedly not true.  Cleveland has won football championships in 24, 45, 50, 54, 55, and 64, but just not recently.  I know you've heard of Cleveland's Jim Brown, the greatest running back of all time, in the opinion of a lot of people.  And on the second point, Clevelanders are not at all happy with just finishing second. We are proud of our teams through all those near misses, but not happy.  I felt proud of Armagh in '77 when we got hammered by the Dubs in the AIF, but I was neither satisfied nor happy.  Cleveland sports fans feel the same way.  Like Armagh in 2002, our day will come.  We've won the NBA title, thanks largely to LeBron (a NE Ohio product), and the Indians are in with a serious shot this year.  Did you see the huge sea of people that greeted the Cavs title. It will be even bigger if the Indians do it. I do appreciate that you acknowledge how rabid Cleveland sports fans are.