A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[Tubberman]

So one million unionists will quietly acquiesce? Have you seen their reaction when their flag is taken down from Belfast City Hall?

This is all irrelevant anyway.The Dublin Government would stop a United Ireland if there was unanimous support for it in the North.

More baseless claptrap.

[Rossfan]

43%  I think Unionist vote in the 2 recent elections.
43% of 1.8 million = 750k or thereabouts.

[haranguerer]

Personally think the border poll will be irrelevant, except as the threat of which finally forces unionists to wake up, smell the coffee and start making deals for a united ireland. 1m is a fairly strong power base for some party, there'd be guarantees of representation etc, perhaps closer ties with UK, and a lot of guaranteed investment into loyalist areas. New flag, anthem, essentially new country.

It will come, but not how we imagine it. Ironically those who will feel left behind will be northern nationalists. What we actually want in political terms is an invasion.

[BennyCake]

Personally think the border poll will be irrelevant, except as the threat of which finally forces unionists to wake up, smell the coffee and start making deals for a united ireland. 1m is a fairly strong power base for some party, there'd be guarantees of representation etc, perhaps closer ties with UK, and a lot of guaranteed investment into loyalist areas. New flag, anthem, essentially new country.

It will come, but not how we imagine it. Ironically those who will feel left behind will be northern nationalists. What we actually want in political terms is an invasion.

Again.

Dublin will bend over backwards, as they've always done, to placate unionists. I actually think unionists will be a lot better off in an UI than they think. But an UI will never happen.

Since the GFA, the North has actually become more polarised than it ever was.

[T Fearon]

The problem is that the North remains obsessed by identity politics,and no means of logic,economic benefit etc will persuade anyone to relinquish their "identity". Economically Northern Catholics were always better off under UK rule,for example,but that never dampened their desire to end it.Similarly econmic benefit will not persuade unionists to abandon their British identity.

[HiMucker]

Personally think the border poll will be irrelevant, except as the threat of which finally forces unionists to wake up, smell the coffee and start making deals for a united ireland. 1m is a fairly strong power base for some party, there'd be guarantees of representation etc, perhaps closer ties with UK, and a lot of guaranteed investment into loyalist areas. New flag, anthem, essentially new country.

It will come, but not how we imagine it. Ironically those who will feel left behind will be northern nationalists. What we actually want in political terms is an invasion.

Again.

Dublin will bend over backwards, as they've always done, to placate unionists. I actually think unionists will be a lot better off in an UI than they think. But an UI will never happen.

Since the GFA, the North has actually become more polarised than it ever was.

Come on now that is way off the mark it is nearly funny.  Some people have short memories.

[Eamonnca1]

The problem is that the North remains obsessed by identity politics,and no means of logic,economic benefit etc will persuade anyone to relinquish their "identity". Economically Northern Catholics were always better off under UK rule,for example,but that never dampened their desire to end it.Similarly econmic benefit will not persuade unionists to abandon their British identity.

Surely you're talking about the post Stormont parliament direct rule era here, not the Stormont "Catholics need not apply" era.

[Eamonnca1]

Personally think the border poll will be irrelevant, except as the threat of which finally forces unionists to wake up, smell the coffee and start making deals for a united ireland. 1m is a fairly strong power base for some party, there'd be guarantees of representation etc, perhaps closer ties with UK, and a lot of guaranteed investment into loyalist areas. New flag, anthem, essentially new country.

It will come, but not how we imagine it. Ironically those who will feel left behind will be northern nationalists. What we actually want in political terms is an invasion.

Again.

Dublin will bend over backwards, as they've always done, to placate unionists. I actually think unionists will be a lot better off in an UI than they think. But an UI will never happen.

Since the GFA, the North has actually become more polarised than it ever was.

Come on now that is way off the mark it is nearly funny.  Some people have short memories.

Maybe not more polarised than it was when Bombay Street was being burned out, but still I'm not seeing much sign of any integration or reconciliation going on in the north. New housing developments are going up left and right and they're as segregated as ever. There's no sign of ending the segregation of the education system either. All you get from church apologists is the old soundbite about catholic schools "teaching respect for different faiths" as if a lesson in a book is an adequate substitute for forming actual friendships with protestants.

[BennyCake]

Personally think the border poll will be irrelevant, except as the threat of which finally forces unionists to wake up, smell the coffee and start making deals for a united ireland. 1m is a fairly strong power base for some party, there'd be guarantees of representation etc, perhaps closer ties with UK, and a lot of guaranteed investment into loyalist areas. New flag, anthem, essentially new country.

It will come, but not how we imagine it. Ironically those who will feel left behind will be northern nationalists. What we actually want in political terms is an invasion.

Again.

Dublin will bend over backwards, as they've always done, to placate unionists. I actually think unionists will be a lot better off in an UI than they think. But an UI will never happen.

Since the GFA, the North has actually become more polarised than it ever was.

Come on now that is way off the mark it is nearly funny.  Some people have short memories.

The GFA reinforced British and Irish identities, via census forms, passports, etc. This Ulster Scots has helped reinforced to Protestants that they are in no way Irish, and instead of grants for cross community initiatives, it's going to Ulster Scots things, which is 100% Protestant.

The Irish passport/identity has also driven a lot more Nationalists in not recognising they are residents in NI, or even recognising the North. Nationalist Political parties wanting recognition of an Irish/Nationalist issue, leads to Unionists wanting recognition for their identity, and that filters down to the general population, leading to more and more segregation.

[T Fearon]

In the North everyone (arguably moreso working class Catholics such as myself) benefitted from Labour's opening up of the Education system which made grammar school places available freely on merit.There was also a free NHS introduced at the same time,and better public services/welfare etc than were available in the South.

Discrimination was rife of course but even in ultra loyalist Portadown,my late mother and father were never out of work (my dad was the only catholic in the Company he worked for) and they always maintained that there was work for everyone who really wanted it.

So yes,I woukd say that economically the Union with the UK was better than any reunification scenario.

There always has been integration in the leafy suburbs among the North's middle classes.

[Eamonnca1]

Just so we're clear, are you adopting the discrimination denial that the unionists come out with? Are you saying there was no inequality or discrimination between partition and the Troubles? If so then why do you think the Troubles started?

[armaghniac]

So yes,I woukd say that economically the Union with the UK was better than any reunification scenario.

"was" being the appropriate tense.

[T Fearon]

I am not saying there wasn't discrimination but this affected the working classes.I can only put it into perspective by my own familial experience in loyalist Portadown.Pre troubles for example I spent two years of my early life in the 60s in the now ultra loyalist estate of Kilicomaine.Our neighbours were overwhelmingly protestant.No problems.My parents were never out of work,I attended Catholic Schools funded by Stormont etc

[Eamonnca1]

But you said that the union was good for nationalists in general, now you're saying that this absence of discrimination was only your personal experience. Are you rolling back on your claim to say that the union was good for your family but not necessarily other catholics?

[T Fearon]

Im saying that if simple economic benefits made people abandon their identity,Northern nationalists would have accepted partition.I was born pre troubles.If I'd been born down south my parents would have been forced to emigrate to find work.I'm also glad that I didnt have to swallow the South's austerity measures this last ten years.