Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[Nanderson]

https://strawpoll.com/polls/NPgxE6rJ1Z2

Vote on what rules you think would make the biggest positive change to football atm.
Its multiple answers so you can choose as many as you like

[blanketattack]

This is a good one from Dublin club football.

Division 2 league game in which Ciaran Archer was sent off (was one of Dublin's better players at his age group at minor and U20, not on the senior panel this year).

He was sent off for the incident below (Indo also has this video up on their report I believe)

https://twitter.com/score_beo/status/1664581042282328065

In his report, the ref described it as an assault and said he suffered a rib injury.

Archer duly got the maximum suspension of 96 weeks for an assault on a referee.

Thankfully the video evidence surfaced, Archer appealed, and was cleared (although had to miss 2 games during the appeals process). It was judged to have been more likely to be accidental.

That video looks like it was done up by someone with an AI tool that's the video equivalent of ChatGPT.

[twohands!!!]

Lack of understanding central to Cork-Kerry penalty call criticism, says Gough

'When I explained on the pitch to the Cork players what was happening they seem to go, 'Oh, okay'. And they were fine about it,' David Gough insisted.
Lack of understanding central to Cork-Kerry penalty call criticism, says Gough
'CORRECT DECISION': GAA Referee and LGBTQ+ advocate David Gough at the launch of SuperValu's 'Wear with Pride' Laces campaign. Pic: ©INPHO/Dan Sheridan

THU, 08 JUN, 2023 - 12:09
JOHN FOGARTY

David Gough believes there was a lack of understanding of the black card/penalty rule that he applied in last Saturday's All-Ireland SFC Group 1 game between Cork and Kerry in Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

The Meath referee awarded Kerry a second-half penalty and sin-binned Seán Powter for his foul on Paul Geaney outside the small parallelogram as it denied a goal-scoring opportunity, as the rule stipulates.

Gough said Cork manager John Cleary's reaction towards him and in his post-match interviews demonstrated that he did not know the rule.

Asked about the reaction, Gough said: "Ignorance in that there may have been a lack of knowledge or understanding of the rule. When I explained on the pitch to the Cork players what was happening they seem to go, 'Oh, okay'. And they were fine about it.

"When I was walking off the pitch John Cleary was giving out to me that he said he had seen the incident back and it was outside the penalty box, that it was never a penalty.

"I then explained the situation to him and I'm listening to him on the radio going home and he's saying it was never a goalscoring opportunity. So even he didn't understand what was going on.

"And it's a difficult one because players first of all weren't aware of the rule and second of all then people, pundits, media, managers didn't have a great understanding of the rule and the language of the goalscoring opportunity and what that actually constitutes. So that's why there was so much confusion about it."

Gough revealed the decision was backed up as the right one in a referees meeting on Wednesday night.

"It has been discussed at the highest level last night among the elite referees on the national panel, and there was a unanimous decision made that it was 100% the correct decision. And I only got to see it once. I got to see it in real time. And we have a situation where you know, people are viewing this back 10 and 15 times and still can't arrive at the correct decision."

Mick O'Grady's foul on Niall Scully in the Dublin-Kildare game in Kilkenny later that Saturday evening was also discussed but Seán Hurson's colleagues and administrators agreed that he was accurate not to award a penalty and issue a black card.

"There was a potential one in the Dublin game last weekend and I know Paul Flynn was calling for greater consistency. However, the Dublin one was not a pulldown so it couldn't be considered a black card. Therefore, the goalscoring opportunity, part of the rule doesn't come into play.

"We have a very good understanding as to where these fouls fit in the language of the rules. Yes, the foul was cynical and it prevented a goalscoring opportunity but no, it was not a black card foul, so therefore the application of that rule didn't come into play."

Speaking at SuperValu's launch of their "Wear With Pride" laces initiative for Pride 2023, Gough readily admits he has become a better referee since the GAA participated in Dublin Pride march in 2019 when John Horan was GAA president.

"I can remember sitting in the president's box after the All-Ireland final in 2019, and I was almost in tears explaining to him the sort of self-confidence that came from the self-acceptance and that self-acceptance coming from the GAA. That they had finally accepted me and were willing not only accept me but to publicly put me out there as someone we're very proud of.

Gough, who came out publicly in 2011, said: "I was allowed go on 'The Late Late Show'. For a referee to receive permission (to do that) – we would always have to receive permission to do media – and then to walk in Pride, that gave me a huge swelling of self-confidence.

"We often talk, particularly where I work in a school, that people say they want to bring their full selves to work. It should be no different on the football field. As a human being, I should be bringing my full self to my job as a referee. In 2019, that was the first time I was allowed do that. I definitely saw a big jump in the standard my refereeing that year."

*Produced in Donegal, rainbow laces will be available to purchase in SuperValu stores nationwide for the month of June, with proceeds going to support Belong To, LGBTQ+ Youth Ireland.

Gough pointing out that the Cork players and management were unaware of the actual rule.

On a broader point I think that the GAA could do far better in terms of explaining the rules to people - the fact that Paul Flynn on the Sunday Game was calling for consistency in the application of the rule when the rule was applied correctly in that Kildare Dublin game shows that the understanding/awareness of the rules is sadly lacking in a lot of quarters.

[Milltown Row2]

Even when people know the rules they still have something to say!

[Saffrongael]

Gough saying on Parkinson's show that Niall Morgan's black card was for "aggressive body language". Is that a rule I assume ?

[Saffrongael]

Lack of understanding central to Cork-Kerry penalty call criticism, says Gough

'When I explained on the pitch to the Cork players what was happening they seem to go, 'Oh, okay'. And they were fine about it,' David Gough insisted.
Lack of understanding central to Cork-Kerry penalty call criticism, says Gough
'CORRECT DECISION': GAA Referee and LGBTQ+ advocate David Gough at the launch of SuperValu's 'Wear with Pride' Laces campaign. Pic: ©INPHO/Dan Sheridan

THU, 08 JUN, 2023 - 12:09
JOHN FOGARTY

David Gough believes there was a lack of understanding of the black card/penalty rule that he applied in last Saturday's All-Ireland SFC Group 1 game between Cork and Kerry in Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

The Meath referee awarded Kerry a second-half penalty and sin-binned Seán Powter for his foul on Paul Geaney outside the small parallelogram as it denied a goal-scoring opportunity, as the rule stipulates.

Gough said Cork manager John Cleary's reaction towards him and in his post-match interviews demonstrated that he did not know the rule.

Asked about the reaction, Gough said: "Ignorance in that there may have been a lack of knowledge or understanding of the rule. When I explained on the pitch to the Cork players what was happening they seem to go, 'Oh, okay'. And they were fine about it.

"When I was walking off the pitch John Cleary was giving out to me that he said he had seen the incident back and it was outside the penalty box, that it was never a penalty.

"I then explained the situation to him and I'm listening to him on the radio going home and he's saying it was never a goalscoring opportunity. So even he didn't understand what was going on.

"And it's a difficult one because players first of all weren't aware of the rule and second of all then people, pundits, media, managers didn't have a great understanding of the rule and the language of the goalscoring opportunity and what that actually constitutes. So that's why there was so much confusion about it."

Gough revealed the decision was backed up as the right one in a referees meeting on Wednesday night.

"It has been discussed at the highest level last night among the elite referees on the national panel, and there was a unanimous decision made that it was 100% the correct decision. And I only got to see it once. I got to see it in real time. And we have a situation where you know, people are viewing this back 10 and 15 times and still can't arrive at the correct decision."

Mick O'Grady's foul on Niall Scully in the Dublin-Kildare game in Kilkenny later that Saturday evening was also discussed but Seán Hurson's colleagues and administrators agreed that he was accurate not to award a penalty and issue a black card.

"There was a potential one in the Dublin game last weekend and I know Paul Flynn was calling for greater consistency. However, the Dublin one was not a pulldown so it couldn't be considered a black card. Therefore, the goalscoring opportunity, part of the rule doesn't come into play.

"We have a very good understanding as to where these fouls fit in the language of the rules. Yes, the foul was cynical and it prevented a goalscoring opportunity but no, it was not a black card foul, so therefore the application of that rule didn't come into play."

Speaking at SuperValu's launch of their "Wear With Pride" laces initiative for Pride 2023, Gough readily admits he has become a better referee since the GAA participated in Dublin Pride march in 2019 when John Horan was GAA president.

"I can remember sitting in the president's box after the All-Ireland final in 2019, and I was almost in tears explaining to him the sort of self-confidence that came from the self-acceptance and that self-acceptance coming from the GAA. That they had finally accepted me and were willing not only accept me but to publicly put me out there as someone we're very proud of.

Gough, who came out publicly in 2011, said: "I was allowed go on 'The Late Late Show'. For a referee to receive permission (to do that) – we would always have to receive permission to do media – and then to walk in Pride, that gave me a huge swelling of self-confidence.

"We often talk, particularly where I work in a school, that people say they want to bring their full selves to work. It should be no different on the football field. As a human being, I should be bringing my full self to my job as a referee. In 2019, that was the first time I was allowed do that. I definitely saw a big jump in the standard my refereeing that year."

*Produced in Donegal, rainbow laces will be available to purchase in SuperValu stores nationwide for the month of June, with proceeds going to support Belong To, LGBTQ+ Youth Ireland.

Gough pointing out that the Cork players and management were unaware of the actual rule.

On a broader point I think that the GAA could do far better in terms of explaining the rules to people - the fact that Paul Flynn on the Sunday Game was calling for consistency in the application of the rule when the rule was applied correctly in that Kildare Dublin game shows that the understanding/awareness of the rules is sadly lacking in a lot of quarters.

When they are prepping for the Sunday Game, which they do for a few hours apparently, would they not have made t their business to find out the intricacies of the rules if they were going to have it as a talking point ?

[Rossfan]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html

[Brendan]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html

Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?

[Milltown Row2]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html

Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?

This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!

[tyrone08]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html

Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?

This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!

Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.

[Milltown Row2]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html

Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?

This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!

Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.

Is it a 'goal opportunity' wording? and if so how is wrong? There have been plenty of goals scored when someone is running into the square regardless off how many defenders there are..

And remember what who brought this about in the first place

[tyrone08]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html

Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?

This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!

Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.

Is it a 'goal opportunity' wording? and if so how is wrong? There have been plenty of goals scored when someone is running into the square regardless off how many defenders there are..

And remember what who brought this about in the first place
[/quote

I believe its if the ref deems it to be a goal scoring opportunity.
Does that mean every time a forward is inside the 20m line they are brought down they automatically get a penalty. Seems strange as you can alway say a forward is attacking the goal anytime they are brought down.

Black card was brought in long before the Sean incident so not sure what you mean.

[Saffrongael]

Has to be a black card offence for it to be a penalty inside the 21, otherwise if it's outside the square it's just a free. Which is a nonsense.

That's my understanding anyway

[johnnycool]

Gough saying on Parkinson's show that Niall Morgan's black card was for "aggressive body language". Is that a rule I assume ?

Yip;

Category II   Being ordered off for a Cynical Behavior Infraction (in Football)     
(i)  Deliberately pulling down an opponent.     
(ii)   Deliberately tripping an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.     
(iii)   Deliberately colliding with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of  taking him out of  a movement of play.     
(iv)   Threatening or using abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a team-mate.     
(v)   Remonstrating in an aggressive manner with a Match Official   Fixed Penalty for first Infraction - the offender shall serve ten minutes in the Sin-Bin

[Milltown Row2]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html

Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?

This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!

Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.

Is it a 'goal opportunity' wording? and if so how is wrong? There have been plenty of goals scored when someone is running into the square regardless off how many defenders there are..

And remember what who brought this about in the first place
[/quote

I believe its if the ref deems it to be a goal scoring opportunity.
Does that mean every time a forward is inside the 20m line they are brought down they automatically get a penalty. Seems strange as you can alway say a forward is attacking the goal anytime they are brought down.

Black card was brought in long before the Sean incident so not sure what you mean.

When Sean Cavanagh pulled down Conor McManus in the 2013 All-Ireland Quarter Final, little did he know that he would change the landscape of the game. Cavanagh was lambasted for his cynicism by all from the media, with RTE pundit Joe Brolly taking particular offence from the action.

But the Tyrone star was not the sole perpetrator of cynical play in the GAA and we would also be a bit naive to think that deliberate pull downs and trips didn't exist in the era of the great teams of the past.

GAA congress knew it would have to act so it set about putting structure together that  would punish cynical play and give the advantage to teams trying to play football. The black card was born with great intentions but has let the GAA public wholly dissatisfied  with it's varied interpretation and implementation.

What year did the Black card come out? 2014?