America`s Gun Culture

Started by Wildweasel74, December 14, 2012, 06:00:57 PM

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Rossfan

Time ye Irish folks upped sticks and got out of that sick Country.
Any place that puts the  owning an arsenal before health care is starting off from an insane point.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Rudi

Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2022, 01:01:10 PM
Time ye Irish folks upped sticks and got out of that sick Country.
Any place that puts the  owning an arsenal before health care is starting off from an insane point.

The smell of the dollar is more alluring than the smell of cow shite for these former Irish boyos. Sure if your left you can blame the right & vica versa.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 25, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Why isn't Biden doing something about this?

What can he actually do, what can any president do that can't be turned over by the next clampit that comes in? If they the stormed the capital over the 'vote' fixing what would happen if they stopped people from having guns?  Be carnage, the senator Cruz says that the staff need to tool up and and defend the kids better... Someone needs to tool up and go to his grandsons school and use their right to bear arms, though listening to him he'd blame the teachers
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

J70

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 25, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Why isn't Biden doing something about this?

Right now there is very little he can do. He simply doesn't have the votes. Joe Manchin, who effectively holds the balance of power and has a relatively commendable D rating from the NRA, is even opposed to sane measures like assault weapons bans (because he'll be out on his ear if he isn't).

And every time one of these atrocities happens, you wonder if THIS will be the one that finally breaks through for the voting public, but it never does. Sandy Hook didn't (20 six year olds). Las Vegas didn't (the guy shot more than 500 people FFS).

Guns is not a winning issue. But then the Dems are fairly useless when it comes to putting an effective message together and they have been for years. Mitch McConnell probably laughs himself to sleep with how ineffective Chuck Schumer has been as majority leader in the Senate. The Dems are a disparate coalition of interest groups, and gun control is just one of those competing interests. The GOP is far more unified, focused, strategic and motivated.

IMO, the Dems should seize on this issue this year and make the GOP live down their NRA subservience. Shove it down the throat of the public that Mitt Romney has literally received tens of millions from the NRA. Mitch McConnell and the rest of them the same. The argument against the free availability of all kinds of guns to anyone who wants them is fairly f**king simple. Run ads showing little kids doing active shooter drills. Make this latest psychopath a poster boy who simply went out and bought those weapons on the day he turned 18. Make an example of the fuckwit in Buffalo who secretly purchased his armory online. Show the utter moral bankruptcy and callousness of the Republican position.

But the Dems won't do any of this. There'll be some other story in a few days. And that will be that until the next "big one" (they're happening every day, but most of them are just background noise to American life).

trileacman

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2022, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 25, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Why isn't Biden doing something about this?

What can he actually do, what can any president do that can't be turned over by the next clampit that comes in? If they the stormed the capital over the 'vote' fixing what would happen if they stopped people from having guns?  Be carnage, the senator Cruz says that the staff need to tool up and and defend the kids better... Someone needs to tool up and go to his grandsons school and use their right to bear arms, though listening to him he'd blame the teachers

That's pathetic. "I'll do nothing because the next guy might undo". Try leading the country for a change. Yeah there's a host of conservative gun nuts but there's bound to be enough mid-line senators and congressmen to push through some kind of gun reform.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

J70

Quote from: trileacman on May 25, 2022, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2022, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 25, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Why isn't Biden doing something about this?

What can he actually do, what can any president do that can't be turned over by the next clampit that comes in? If they the stormed the capital over the 'vote' fixing what would happen if they stopped people from having guns?  Be carnage, the senator Cruz says that the staff need to tool up and and defend the kids better... Someone needs to tool up and go to his grandsons school and use their right to bear arms, though listening to him he'd blame the teachers

That's pathetic. "I'll do nothing because the next guy might undo". Try leading the country for a change. Yeah there's a host of conservative gun nuts but there's bound to be enough mid-line senators and congressmen to push through some kind of gun reform.

There's not.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: trileacman on May 25, 2022, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2022, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 25, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Why isn't Biden doing something about this?

What can he actually do, what can any president do that can't be turned over by the next clampit that comes in? If they the stormed the capital over the 'vote' fixing what would happen if they stopped people from having guns?  Be carnage, the senator Cruz says that the staff need to tool up and and defend the kids better... Someone needs to tool up and go to his grandsons school and use their right to bear arms, though listening to him he'd blame the teachers

That's pathetic. "I'll do nothing because the next guy might undo". Try leading the country for a change. Yeah there's a host of conservative gun nuts but there's bound to be enough mid-line senators and congressmen to push through some kind of gun reform.

It is pathetic and it happens a lot over there, strange place that turns a blind eye to murdering kids.

If Binden was able to, I don't think he can, what's is stopping a republican gun-slinging tooting shooting lover of the NRA from reversing that when they get into power with a big majority, as that will happen if Biden try's to put actual real reforms through?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

dec

Quote from: trileacman on May 25, 2022, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2022, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 25, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Why isn't Biden doing something about this?

What can he actually do, what can any president do that can't be turned over by the next clampit that comes in? If they the stormed the capital over the 'vote' fixing what would happen if they stopped people from having guns?  Be carnage, the senator Cruz says that the staff need to tool up and and defend the kids better... Someone needs to tool up and go to his grandsons school and use their right to bear arms, though listening to him he'd blame the teachers

That's pathetic. "I'll do nothing because the next guy might undo". Try leading the country for a change. Yeah there's a host of conservative gun nuts but there's bound to be enough mid-line senators and congressmen to push through some kind of gun reform.

The Senate is divided 50-50 and it requires 60 votes to overcome a filibuster. The Republicans are opposed to any attempt to stop 18 year olds buying what ever type of gun they want.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott urged Texans to buy more guns
https://twitter.com/gregabbott_tx/status/659427797853536256
"I'm EMBARRASSED: Texas #2 in nation for new gun purchases, behind CALIFORNIA. Let's pick up the pace Texans. @NRA"

Salvador Ramos followed his instructions and now 21 people are dead.

J70

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 25, 2022, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 25, 2022, 11:58:56 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 25, 2022, 11:36:45 AM
Quote from: Taylor on May 25, 2022, 11:10:05 AM
Constitution aside, even if it was changed, it is still incredibly easy to get your hands on a gun in some US states.

There are almost 400 million guns in the hands of civilians in the US - thats about 120 guns for every 100 people.

It accounts for 46% of civilian held guns globally.

Those stats are mind blowing alone.....not to mention the other guns on the streets that are not accounted for.

So if the constitution changes tomorrow would it make a difference given how many guns are readily available?

Its a complete mess
So is the only alternative to do nothing?
Surely some level of gun control is better than the current situation? It might have a while to have an effect but might slowy reduce the level of gun ownership over time.

I'm pointing out this this is not the resolution that will change things in the here and now.

Granted it might slowly reduce over time (it will be a long long time) but the issue is over 400million guns are out there.
America may well have went past the point of no return when it comes to gun culture, but surely they have to try SOMETHING at this stage?
Powerful stuff from Steve Kerr in his press conference, but its unlikely to change many intrenched opinions either.
There is no simple solution to this, but banning assault rifles and having stricter background checks along side some sort of buy back scheme is bound to at least get the direction of travel going the right way?

If the will is there, they can get the guns out of circulation. Yes, it would take time, but what doesn't? As you say, buy-backs, bans, law enforcement focused on illegal weapons and trading etc.

But the logistics and details are not the problem. The lack of will is.

Eamonnca1

Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2022, 01:01:10 PM
Time ye Irish folks upped sticks and got out of that sick Country.
Any place that puts the  owning an arsenal before health care is starting off from an insane point.

Depends what state you're in. California's pretty good by American standards. Still has gun violence, but it's at a much lower rate than states with loose gun laws and "stand your ground" laws. If you're somewhere like Florida then your chances of getting shot are quite a bit higher.

Eire90

nothing will happen until politicians way of life are directly effected

RadioGAAGAA

Quote from: Taylor on May 25, 2022, 11:10:05 AM
Constitution aside, even if it was changed, it is still incredibly easy to get your hands on a gun in some US states.

There are almost 400 million guns in the hands of civilians in the US - thats about 120 guns for every 100 people.

It accounts for 46% of civilian held guns globally.

Those stats are mind blowing alone.....not to mention the other guns on the streets that are not accounted for.

So if the constitution changes tomorrow would it make a difference given how many guns are readily available?

Its a complete mess

It is a total mess.

But even a few changes would start to make an impact.

>> Banning automatic weaponry across the board means the police can lift it and you if they find you with one. No grey areas or ambiguity.
>> If anyone sees someone looking a bit dodgy and carting around heavy weaponry, they'd have real cause to report them* and know the police could do something about it.
>> The weapons still need maintained, not to mention ammunition. Making parts and ammo harder to acquire will impact dumb 18 year olds.

*no longer just a case of - "that kids always a bit weird, but sure, what can you do?"


The initial impact won't be on 40 year old veterans - they know where to get weapons, maintain them and how to best get them somewhere unobserved.
It's the 18 year old dumb fuk that struggles to count beyond both hands.
i usse an speelchekor

Muck Savage

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2022, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 25, 2022, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2022, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 25, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Why isn't Biden doing something about this?

What can he actually do, what can any president do that can't be turned over by the next clampit that comes in? If they the stormed the capital over the 'vote' fixing what would happen if they stopped people from having guns?  Be carnage, the senator Cruz says that the staff need to tool up and and defend the kids better... Someone needs to tool up and go to his grandsons school and use their right to bear arms, though listening to him he'd blame the teachers

That's pathetic. "I'll do nothing because the next guy might undo". Try leading the country for a change. Yeah there's a host of conservative gun nuts but there's bound to be enough mid-line senators and congressmen to push through some kind of gun reform.

It is pathetic and it happens a lot over there, strange place that turns a blind eye to murdering kids.

If Binden was able to, I don't think he can, what's is stopping a republican gun-slinging tooting shooting lover of the NRA from reversing that when they get into power with a big majority, as that will happen if Biden try's to put actual real reforms through?

If he tried and was successful in reforming do you not think the potential lives saved between reform and reform reversal would be worth it?
Always easier to blame the other guy or in this case party. At least try. Actions speak far more than 'thoughts and prayers with the families' comments that he will sadly be saying more times before he is out of office. Try at least!

Milltown Row2

Yeah start the ball rolling, and if those reforms take shape and prove positive then brilliant. My thoughts on why it's pointless I'd based it on listening to the nut jobs on the radio these last two days talking about never giving up their rights!!

it's a pity they didn't start it after Sandy Hook.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

J70

#1409
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 25, 2022, 09:20:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2022, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 25, 2022, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2022, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 25, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Why isn't Biden doing something about this?

What can he actually do, what can any president do that can't be turned over by the next clampit that comes in? If they the stormed the capital over the 'vote' fixing what would happen if they stopped people from having guns?  Be carnage, the senator Cruz says that the staff need to tool up and and defend the kids better... Someone needs to tool up and go to his grandsons school and use their right to bear arms, though listening to him he'd blame the teachers

That's pathetic. "I'll do nothing because the next guy might undo". Try leading the country for a change. Yeah there's a host of conservative gun nuts but there's bound to be enough mid-line senators and congressmen to push through some kind of gun reform.

It is pathetic and it happens a lot over there, strange place that turns a blind eye to murdering kids.

If Binden was able to, I don't think he can, what's is stopping a republican gun-slinging tooting shooting lover of the NRA from reversing that when they get into power with a big majority, as that will happen if Biden try's to put actual real reforms through?

If he tried and was successful in reforming do you not think the potential lives saved between reform and reform reversal would be worth it?
Always easier to blame the other guy or in this case party. At least try. Actions speak far more than 'thoughts and prayers with the families' comments that he will sadly be saying more times before he is out of office. Try at least!

But he won't be successful. The system is set up so that he can't be. White rural voters and their GOP representatives are over-represented in Congress and it is they who insist on little or no restrictions on gun control. And even if he is successful, the current Supreme Court will overturn it.

That said, I fully agree he should try. Hit these f**kers over the head with every victim. Make them get up there and defend it. Point out the insanity of their schools-as-locked-down-forts "solutions". Whatever it is, pick a message and stick to it. Don't let the country move on and forget about it. If it fails, try again.

The Republicans had massive success last year on a ludicrous campaign for the non-issue that was/is "critical race theory". Gun violence is a REAL issue. Follow their playbook and make it count.

I despise much of what the GOP stands for, but you have to give credit to them for their complete mastery of using issues, even fake bullshit ones, to motivate their voters.